Monatsdigest

Re: [HN] Husband Taking Wife's Surname

Date: 2006/12/01 00:56:58
From: MagdalenaJLM <MagdalenaJLM(a)aol.com>

Sorry, That is correct, a at the end of female surname and i for  male.
 
Have a Nice Day! Jill

I am currently researching the  following  names:
Barlag,Bochenski,Bogdanski,Bredehoft,Brinkmann,Cawley,Ciesielski,Cieszkiewiez,
Drehs,Dress,Dufelmeyer,Dufelmeier,Fuelling/Fulling,Frese,Fresen,Hunken,Klindtw
orth,Hirschy,Jalonski,Kaminski,Kozielecki,Kozielewski,Kurgan,Leimkuehler,Leime
nkuhler,Ly
don,Mazgaj,Mesch,Obyc,Oesterhagen,Ostmeier/Ostmeyer,Obrock,Piechalski,Pieper,Poertner,Pranten,Quell,Rak,Reker,Redecker,Schwetscher,Speckmann,Sprin
ghorn,Thiessecharpen/Thieschaper,Thunhorst,Viel/Viets,Vischer,Winteregg,Wistin
ghausen,Wolers,/Wohlerst,Zinzack,  Zynczak,Zinczak
Jill  Leimkuehler











(MagdalenaJLM(a)aol.com)


Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese

Date: 2006/12/01 00:59:59
From: Sebastian Rautenberg <rautenbergahnen(a)aol.com>

Hi ghyll,
thats me again :-) just in the moment I have news for you.

a friend of mine has  Harmening in his genealogie...
I`ve give him your e-mail address, he live in petershagen..

Greetings Sebastian

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] Im Auftrag von ghyll simoneschi
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. November 2006 18:15
An: Hannover-L
Betreff: [HN] Harmening/Leese

I am looking for information about this family from this area!
Thank you for any help you can give.
Ghyll 
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[HN] Neuvorstellung: HORSLEY / WILKENING / KLASING / HERMELING /

Date: 2006/12/01 01:39:59
From: M-Horsley <noni(a)teleos-web.de>


Hello my name is Michael Horsley 

I look for information about the families: Wilkening/Kläsing from locate Petershagen/OT Quetzen 

for each assistance I am very grateful 

Greetings Michael Horsley




Hallo meine name ist  Michael Horsley

ich suche nach informationen über die Familien: Wilkening / Kläsing  aus den orten Petershagen / OT Quetzen 

für jede hilfe bin ich euch sehr dankbar

Grüße

Michael

Horsley



Re: [HN] Husband taking Wife's name

Date: 2006/12/01 05:24:23
From: JANE E SWAN <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>

Hi All:  Just one more comment on this subject:  It was quite common - I have several in my tree.  Most of them did so because of name attached to a farm, esp. in the smaller villages.  But I have at least one who (perhaps had to) changed his name to hers because she was descended from nobility - complete with the "von" - even tho she was just a Bürger's daughter in Celle.  Ironically, the family later dropped the "von Eltze" and simply used the name of the father, Eggeling.   The earlier Von Eltze no longer used (or perhaps were forbidden to) the coat-of-arms, even tho several of them were Bürgermeister of Celle.  Again, ironically, almost 200 years later, one of the sons used the simple name Eggeling but resumed use of the von Eltze coat-of-arms.
Makes for interesting speculation.   What makes genealogy such fun.     Jane


JANE E SWAN
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

Re: [HN] Waldmann

Date: 2006/12/01 08:28:29
From: Wolfgang Ewig <ewig1(a)t-online.de>

Hallo,
kann ich evtl. weiterhelfen?
ich habe die Kirchenbücher von Hohenbostel teilweise aufgearbeitet.Siehe auch www.wolfgang-ewig.de Der Waldmann sagt mir was. Was wollen Sie genau wissen.
Gruss
Wolfgang Ewig




----- Original Message ----- From: "Wolf-Dieter Waldmann" <WWaldmann(a)gmx.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] Waldmann


Hi Uschi,
ich glaube nicht,dass ich dir helfen kann. Meinen Namen "Waldmann" gibts erst seit März 1940.. Wir hießen zuvor Gojowczyk. Einen Hermann Heinrich Waldmann gibt es nicht in meiner Familie. Nur einen Wolf-Dieter Heinrich Waldmann. Und das bin ich.
Tut mir leid, mit lieben Güßen,
Wolf-Dieter
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:01:30 +0100
Von: Ursula Wojciechowski <ruhwo(a)gmx.de>
An: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Betreff: [HN] Waldmann


   Hallo Wolf Dieter,
   ich habe einen Waldmann in meiner Ahnenreihe, aber leider nichts
   davor, danach oder nebenher. Ist Dir dieser bekannt?
   Ilse Margarete Ruhkopf (Rukop) * 1714 in Kirchdorf. ~ 02.09.1714 in
   Kirchdorf. + 1785. Alter ca. 71 Jahre.
           Vater: Heinrich Ruhkopf (Rukop). Mutter: Clare Anne Rehren
   (Rehren).
   Verbindung  mit Hermann Heinrich Waldmann
   Es grüsst Uschi Wojciechowski
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Re: [HN] Hanoverian soldiers

Date: 2006/12/01 09:30:42
From: Maureen <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>

Would you look for any with the surname GANSBERG?

It's a very small family.  Thanks!

Maureen

----- Original Message ----- From: "terry white" <terryak.white(a)virgin.net>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 4:27 PM
Subject: [HN] Hanoverian soldiers


29.11.06

Dear Joannah, and all who are interested in King's German Legion,

I can look up Hanoverian soldiers in the Kew Record Office for 1812,
when I go down next.
There is one book on the library shelf that is a compiled  list.
It will give me something to do whilst waiting the half-hour for ordered
documents to arrive.

I do not know yet when I may be able to do this. It may now have to wait until after Christmas. I live in South England, and the railway service is notorious at this
time of year,
especially at weekends, which is the most likely time when I can go.
Terry


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[HN] Neuvorstellung: HORSLEY / WILKENING / KLASING / HERMELING /

Date: 2006/12/01 09:42:00
From: M-Horsley <noni(a)teleos-web.de>

Hello my name is Michael Horsley 

I look for information about the families: Wilkening/Kläsing from locate Petershagen/OT Quetzen 

for each assistance I am very grateful 

Greetings Michael Horsley




Hallo meine name ist  Michael Horsley

ich suche nach informationen über die Familien: Wilkening / Kläsing  aus den orten Petershagen / OT Quetzen 

für jede hilfe bin ich euch sehr dankbar

Grüße

Michael

Horsley

Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese

Date: 2006/12/01 10:06:03
From: Susanne Schmitz <su-schmitz(a)gmx.net>

Hallo Ghyll,

I am working with the churchbooks of Leese in order to write an Ortsfamilienbuch Leese 1654 - 1753(Familybook for Leese). The Harmelings are living there for a long time. So what special information do you need ?

MfG   Susanne


[HN] Johann August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL

Date: 2006/12/01 13:13:44
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Dear Listies
 
We had spoken about Johann August Hattorff this year. Rena from England has  
send me a link were i could see the place of birth of Johann August Hattorff. 
In  his files in England they say he is born in "Schoningen".
 
So i send a researcher to look the churchbooks but there was no birth of a  
Johann August Hattorff.
 
Then i tried to find him in the Archive in Hannover, they have military  
files too. This is what i got:
 
 
Hann 48 a I Nr. 123 Stammrolle des Regiments 1804  – 1808 
Pag. 12 
Register of Men , First  Troop 
No.                  No. 4 
Rank                Serg. 
Name               August Hattorf 
Age                  25 
Size                  feet 5, inches 9 
where born       
country            Hannover 
town                Uslar 
trade                - 
In...                  March 20 1804 
No. of years            7 
Bounty money 
received            4 pounds 6 ... 
description        
eyes                 blue 
hair                  black 
complex.            fair 
service 
...                     Hann. 
regiment            8th reg. of cavalry 
no. of years            7 
remarks            - 
So after this files he should be born in Uslar,  what is not far away from 
Schoningen, once again i send someone to check the  churchbooks to find the 
birth of Johann August Hattorf. Nothing at  all? 
Additional informations about Johann August  Hattorff. He is searchable at 
the LDS site. There they spell his name as John  Augustus Hattorff married with 
Susannah Brookes. 
I got finally his marriage lisence.  
Its not easy to read cause not in the best  condition: 
John Augustus Hattorff of this Parish,  Bachelor, Sergeant Major in the first 
Regiment German Hussars and Susannah  Brookes of this Parish, Spinster??? 
..... this Church by Licence this seventh  day of January in the year 1813. 
By me Wm. Layton, Rector 
The Marriage was folemnized between  us 
Johann August Hattorff 
Susannah Brookes 
Then finally i have the baptism of their first  child born in England 
Susannah Augusta Hattorff, born 8th November 1813. Parents  John Augustus Hattorff & 
Susannah his wife. 
Any suggestion how to go on with my search?  Thank you all. 
Armin Hattorf 


Re: [HN] Johann August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL

Date: 2006/12/01 13:59:56
From: terry white <terryak.white(a)virgin.net>

Dec 1st 06 


Dear Armin, 

Do you think that records for the KGL are then both in England and in
Germany for all individuals who were members of that illustrious band of
men ? 

The records in London are basically lists of names; and then muster
books, which can be ordered up, give lengths of service, pay and  if
you're lucky - very lucky - enlistment or discharge papers, if they
enlisted or were discharged in England, or embarked at one of the ports.

If those members who wanted me to look on the lists for their ancestors,
and I was to find a specific battalion, etc, or if they were in the
cavalry, foot, or in the ranks, could they then be sought in more detail
in records in Hanover, once they were pinned down?

Terry




-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces+terryak.white=virgin.net(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces+terryak.white=virgin.net(a)genealogy.net] On
Behalf Of AJHattorf(a)aol.com
Sent: 01 December 2006 12:13
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Johann August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL


Dear Listies
 
We had spoken about Johann August Hattorff this year. Rena from England
has  
send me a link were i could see the place of birth of Johann August
Hattorff. 
In  his files in England they say he is born in "Schoningen".
 
So i send a researcher to look the churchbooks but there was no birth of
a  
Johann August Hattorff.
 
Then i tried to find him in the Archive in Hannover, they have military

files too. This is what i got:
 
 
Hann 48 a I Nr. 123 Stammrolle des Regiments 1804  - 1808 
Pag. 12 
Register of Men , First  Troop 
No.                  No. 4 
Rank                Serg. 
Name               August Hattorf 
Age                  25 
Size                  feet 5, inches 9 
where born       
country            Hannover 
town                Uslar 
trade                - 
In...                  March 20 1804 
No. of years            7 
Bounty money 
received            4 pounds 6 ... 
description        
eyes                 blue 
hair                  black 
complex.            fair 
service 
...                     Hann. 
regiment            8th reg. of cavalry 
no. of years            7 
remarks            - 
So after this files he should be born in Uslar,  what is not far away
from 
Schoningen, once again i send someone to check the  churchbooks to find
the 
birth of Johann August Hattorf. Nothing at  all? 
Additional informations about Johann August  Hattorff. He is searchable
at 
the LDS site. There they spell his name as John  Augustus Hattorff
married with 
Susannah Brookes. 
I got finally his marriage lisence.  
Its not easy to read cause not in the best  condition: 
John Augustus Hattorff of this Parish,  Bachelor, Sergeant Major in the
first 
Regiment German Hussars and Susannah  Brookes of this Parish,
Spinster??? 
..... this Church by Licence this seventh  day of January in the year
1813. 
By me Wm. Layton, Rector 
The Marriage was folemnized between  us 
Johann August Hattorff 
Susannah Brookes 
Then finally i have the baptism of their first  child born in England 
Susannah Augusta Hattorff, born 8th November 1813. Parents  John
Augustus Hattorff & 
Susannah his wife. 
Any suggestion how to go on with my search?  Thank you all. 
Armin Hattorf 

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[HN] Neu Vorstellung

Date: 2006/12/01 14:02:40
From: Brunkhorst, Hans-Hermann <H-HBrunkhorst(a)nri.de>

Hallo in die Runde,

Ich habe mich neu in dieser Liste angemeldet. Mein Name ist Hans-Hermann
Brunkhorst, bin 46 Jahre und beschäftige mich seit 2 Jahren mit der
Ahnenforschung. Es sind die Familien Brun(c)khorst, Brandt, Böhn, Poppe in
den Kreisen Stade und Rotenburg sowie Wesel und Pump in Hamburg.
Herzliche Grüße
Hans-Hermann (Brunkhorst)


Re: [HN] Neuvorstellung: HORSLEY / WILKENING / KLASING / HERMELING /

Date: 2006/12/01 14:15:32
From: ghyll simoneschi <vsgs(a)optonline.net>

Dear Michael,
As far as I know, my family spelled their name HARMENING. Are the spellings interchangeable?
Ghyll
----- Original Message ----- From: "M-Horsley" <noni(a)teleos-web.de>
To: <westfalen-l(a)genealogy.net>
Cc: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:41 AM
Subject: [HN] Neuvorstellung: HORSLEY / WILKENING / KLASING / HERMELING /


Hello my name is Michael Horsley

I look for information about the families: Wilkening/Kläsing from locate Petershagen/OT Quetzen

for each assistance I am very grateful

Greetings Michael Horsley




Hallo meine name ist  Michael Horsley

ich suche nach informationen über die Familien: Wilkening / Kläsing aus den orten Petershagen / OT Quetzen

für jede hilfe bin ich euch sehr dankbar

Grüße

Michael

Horsley
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[HN] A little AIDA help?

Date: 2006/12/01 18:15:50
From: K Steingrandt <steingrandtorg(a)yahoo.com>

Hello all
   
  I am impatient and want to try and get some results from AIDA before my only German-speaking friend has time to help me :)
   
  What do I do once I get to this page?  
   
  Thanks all!
   
   
                   Bestandsanzeige: Alle  Ausgewahlt Ungewahlt
            function Focus2Combo(id)   {    // Focus auf 1. Combo    try    {     if (id == 'lnkFilterActivate')     {      document.getElementById('AIDAFilterBestand_rptFilter__ctl1_dropSearch').focus();     }     else     {      document.getElementById('AIDAFilterControl1_rptFilter__ctl1_dropSearch').focus();     }    }    catch (e) {};   }     function resetFilter(id)   {    // Filter löschen    try    {     if (id == 'AIDAFilterControl1_htmlbtnReset')     {      document.getElementById('AIDAFilterControl1_btnReset').click();     }     else     {      document.getElementById('AIDAFilterBestand_btnReset').click();     }    }    catch (e) {};   }     function queryFilterClick(id)   {    /*    if (document.getElementById('AIDAFilterControl1_htmlbtnReset') == null)    {     if (document.getElementById("imgFilterArchiv") == null)     {      var aktion = window.confirm ('Soll die Suche ohne Einschränkung auf Archive und/oder Bestände durchgeführt werden?');      if(aktion ==
 false)      {       document.getElementById("htmlbtnBestand").click();       return;      }     }    }  */    id = id.substr(0,17);      if (id == 'AIDAFilterControl')    {     // Kontrolle von Datumseingaben: erstmal unter "Signatur" irgendwas erfassen, dann i.d.     // DropDownList aif Laufzeit ändern...     var check = false;     var error = false;     var obj;     var val = "";     var tmp = "";     var keyChar = "";     var iAuf = 0;     var iZu  = 0;     for (var i=1; i-1) || (obj.value.indexOf('BEGINN_TEXT')>-1))       {        error = false;        val = document.getElementById("AIDAFilterControl1_rptFilter__ctl" + i + "_txtSearch").value;        spl = val.split (".");        if (spl.length > 3)        {         error = true;        }        else        {         tmp = val.replace (".", "");         if (tmp.length > 10)         {          error = true;         }         else         {          for (var j=0; j "9"))           {            if (keyChar != ".")        
    {             error = true;            }           }          }         }        }       }      }      catch (e) {};      if (error ==  false)      {       try       {        if (document.getElementById("AIDAFilterControl1_rptFilter__ctl" + i + "_chkAuf").checked == true & obj.value != "")        {         iAuf += 1;        }       }       catch (e) {};       try       {        if (document.getElementById("AIDAFilterControl1_rptFilter__ctl" + i + "_chkZu").checked == true & obj.value != "")        {         iZu += 1;        }       }       catch (e) {};      }          if (error ==  true)      {       if (check == false)       {        try        {         document.getElementById("AIDAFilterControl1_rptFilter__ctl" + i + "_txtSearch").focus()        }        catch (e) {};       }       check = true;      }     }         if (check)     {      alert("falsche Datumseingabe!");     }     else if (iAuf != iZu)     {      alert("ungültige Klammersetzung!");     }     else    
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          Auswahl  Archiv  Bestandsbezeichnung  Bestandssignatur    Entfernen  Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover  Abwickler des Reichsnährstandes für Niedersachsen  Nds. 1630    Entfernen  Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover  Adlige, Bürger- und Bauernlehen, Rossdienste  Celle Br. 46    Entfernen  Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover  Agentur für Arbeit, Regionaldirektion Niedersachsen-Bremen  Nds. 1310    Entfernen  Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover: Kartenabteilung/Sammlungen  Allgemeine Nachrichten- und Pressedienste  ZGS 5    Entfernen  Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover  Allgemeine Ständeversammlung  Hann. 108    Entfernen  Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover: Kartenabteilung/Sammlungen  Allgemeine Übersichtskarten  Karten - Übersichtskarten    Entfernen  Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover  Allodifikations- und Lehnsakten  Hann. 4    Entfernen  Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover  Altbergbau (BaCl)  Hann. 184 Altbergbau    Entfernen  Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover  Alte Kriegshändel, Dreißigjähriger Krieg im Fürstentum Lüneburg  Celle Br.
 10    Entfernen  Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover  Alte Registratur (BaCl)  Hann. 84d    Entfernen  Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover  Altenauer Eisenhütte (BaCl)  Hann. 84f Altenau    Entfernen  Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover  Amt Ahlden  Hann. 74 Ahlden
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Re: [HN] A little AIDA help?

Date: 2006/12/01 18:18:26
From: K Steingrandt <steingrandtorg(a)yahoo.com>

Sorry all - it looks like you can't see the page I was talking about...I will try a  screen shot.

K Steingrandt <steingrandtorg(a)yahoo.com> wrote:  Hello all

I am impatient and want to try and get some results from AIDA before my only German-speaking friend has time to help me :)

What do I do once I get to this page? 

Thanks all!


Bestandsanzeige: Alle Ausgewahlt Ungewahlt
function Focus2Combo(id) { // Focus auf 1. Combo try { if (id == 'lnkFilterActivate') { document.getElementById('AIDAFilterBestand_rptFilter__ctl1_dropSearch').focus(); } else { document.getElementById('AIDAFilterControl1_rptFilter__ctl1_dropSearch').focus(); } } catch (e) {}; } function resetFilter(id) { // Filter löschen try { if (id == 'AIDAFilterControl1_htmlbtnReset') { document.getElementById('AIDAFilterControl1_btnReset').click(); } else { document.getElementById('AIDAFilterBestand_btnReset').click(); } } catch (e) {}; } function queryFilterClick(id) { /* if (document.getElementById('AIDAFilterControl1_htmlbtnReset') == null) { if (document.getElementById("imgFilterArchiv") == null) { var aktion = window.confirm ('Soll die Suche ohne Einschränkung auf Archive und/oder Bestände durchgeführt werden?'); if(aktion ==
false) { document.getElementById("htmlbtnBestand").click(); return; } } } */ id = id.substr(0,17); if (id == 'AIDAFilterControl') { // Kontrolle von Datumseingaben: erstmal unter "Signatur" irgendwas erfassen, dann i.d. // DropDownList aif Laufzeit ändern... var check = false; var error = false; var obj; var val = ""; var tmp = ""; var keyChar = ""; var iAuf = 0; var iZu = 0; for (var i=1; i-1) || (obj.value.indexOf('BEGINN_TEXT')>-1)) { error = false; val = document.getElementById("AIDAFilterControl1_rptFilter__ctl" + i + "_txtSearch").value; spl = val.split ("."); if (spl.length > 3) { error = true; } else { tmp = val.replace (".", ""); if (tmp.length > 10) { error = true; } else { for (var j=0; j "9")) { if (keyChar != ".") 
{ error = true; } } } } } } } catch (e) {}; if (error == false) { try { if (document.getElementById("AIDAFilterControl1_rptFilter__ctl" + i + "_chkAuf").checked == true & obj.value != "") { iAuf += 1; } } catch (e) {}; try { if (document.getElementById("AIDAFilterControl1_rptFilter__ctl" + i + "_chkZu").checked == true & obj.value != "") { iZu += 1; } } catch (e) {}; } if (error == true) { if (check == false) { try { document.getElementById("AIDAFilterControl1_rptFilter__ctl" + i + "_txtSearch").focus() } catch (e) {}; } check = true; } } if (check) { alert("falsche Datumseingabe!"); } else if (iAuf != iZu) { alert("ungültige Klammersetzung!"); } else 
{ // alles klar: den anderen Button clicken try { document.getElementById("txtSearchClicked").value="x"; document.getElementById("txtSearching").value="Suche..."; document.getElementById("txtSearching").style.display = "inline"; document.getElementById("imgWait").style.display = "inline"; document.getElementById("faqdiv12").style.display = "none"; document.getElementById("txtFilterClicked").value="x"; } catch (e) {}; document.getElementById("AIDAFilterControl1_btnFilter").click(); //faqswitch(32); try { document.getElementById("AIDAFilterControl1_rptFilter__ctl" + i + "_txtSearch").focus() } catch (e) {}; } } else { document.getElementById("AIDAFilterBestand_btnFilter").click(); } } function CheckChanged(event) { var check = GetSrcElement(event); var isChecked = check.checked; var src = check.id src = src.replace(/chkZu/, "lblZu"); 
src = src.replace(/chkAuf/, "lblAuf"); if (isChecked == true) { document.getElementById(src).style.color = "DarkBlue"; } else { document.getElementById(src).style.color = "white"; } } function faqswitch(idnum, showothers) //http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;vbNET { var filterSpecial = false; var isVisible = false; if (idnum > 30) { filterSpecial = true idnum -= 30 } if(document.getElementById){ if(document.getElementById("faqdiv"+idnum)){ var elem = document.getElementById("faqdiv"+idnum); var hdr = document.getElementById("faqHeader"+idnum) if(elem == null) { return; } if(elem.style.display == "none") { if (showothers == true) { } else { for (var i=1; i [input] [input] [input] [input] 


Auswahl Archiv Bestandsbezeichnung Bestandssignatur Entfernen Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover Abwickler des Reichsnährstandes für Niedersachsen Nds. 1630 Entfernen Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover Adlige, Bürger- und Bauernlehen, Rossdienste Celle Br. 46 Entfernen Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover Agentur für Arbeit, Regionaldirektion Niedersachsen-Bremen Nds. 1310 Entfernen Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover: Kartenabteilung/Sammlungen Allgemeine Nachrichten- und Pressedienste ZGS 5 Entfernen Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover Allgemeine Ständeversammlung Hann. 108 Entfernen Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover: Kartenabteilung/Sammlungen Allgemeine Übersichtskarten Karten - Übersichtskarten Entfernen Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover Allodifikations- und Lehnsakten Hann. 4 Entfernen Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover Altbergbau (BaCl) Hann. 184 Altbergbau Entfernen Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover Alte Kriegshändel, Dreißigjähriger Krieg im Fürstentum Lüneburg Celle Br.
10 Entfernen Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover Alte Registratur (BaCl) Hann. 84d Entfernen Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover Altenauer Eisenhütte (BaCl) Hann. 84f Altenau Entfernen Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover Amt Ahlden Hann. 74 Ahlden
[input] [input] [input] " name=GridPager_dgFilterBestand:btnNext> [input] [input] 
x 
[input] [input] [input] [input] [input] 




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[HN] AIDA help part Zwei

Date: 2006/12/01 18:20:25
From: K Steingrandt <steingrandtorg(a)yahoo.com>

OK, one more try.  What do I do once I get to this page?  (see attached GIF)
   
  Thank you!
   
  Kristen Steingrandt
   
   

 
---------------------------------
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Re: [HN] AIDA help part Zwei

Date: 2006/12/01 18:47:29
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Sorry Kristen, you loose again--no attachments on this list. Attachments can contain nasty executable code and such code is not wanted on the List.

Why not get together with someone off List and have them walk you through step by step. Many people on the List have "Windows", so you can have AIDA in one window, and your e-mail in another window. With a short delay, you can almost "talk" to each other.

Sorry, I don't read or write German. I will take a look at AIDA, as I rermember, I was able to get through it in a limited fashion.

Gale



On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:20:06 -0800 (PST)
 K Steingrandt <steingrandtorg(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
OK, one more try. What do I do once I get to this page? (see attached GIF) Thank you! Kristen Steingrandt

---------------------------------
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Re: [HN] AIDA help part Zwei

Date: 2006/12/01 18:53:44
From: K Steingrandt <steingrandtorg(a)yahoo.com>

Thank you Gale!  I do have a friend who speaks fluent German, but I'm just an impatient soul :)
   
  Anyways, if anyone has time to help off list, I would really appreciate it.
   
  Danke,
   
  Kristen

gale(a)bosche.info wrote:
  Sorry Kristen, you loose again--no attachments on this 
list. Attachments can contain nasty executable code and 
such code is not wanted on the List.

Why not get together with someone off List and have them 
walk you through step by step. Many people on the List 
have "Windows", so you can have AIDA in one window, and 
your e-mail in another window. With a short delay, you 
can almost "talk" to each other.

Sorry, I don't read or write German. I will take a look 
at AIDA, as I rermember, I was able to get through it in a 
limited fashion.

Gale



On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:20:06 -0800 (PST)
K Steingrandt wrote:
> OK, one more try. What do I do once I get to this page? 
> (see attached GIF)
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Kristen Steingrandt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone 
>call rates.

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Re: [HN] AIDA help part Zwei

Date: 2006/12/01 18:59:57
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Kristen, this may help. Google "izn-AIDA". You will get the following. Click on the part "Translate this page"

izn-AIDA online - © Informatikzentrum Niedersachsen- [ Translate this page

Unfortunately, it is currently down for maintenance.

Gale

On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:44:25 -0500
 <gale(a)bosche.info> wrote:
Sorry Kristen, you loose again--no attachments on this list. Attachments can contain nasty executable code and such code is not wanted on the List.

Why not get together with someone off List and have them walk you through step by step. Many people on the List have "Windows", so you can have AIDA in one window, and your e-mail in another window. With a short delay, you can almost "talk" to each other.

Sorry, I don't read or write German. I will take a look at AIDA, as I rermember, I was able to get through it in a limited fashion.

Gale



On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:20:06 -0800 (PST)
 K Steingrandt <steingrandtorg(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
OK, one more try. What do I do once I get to this page? (see attached GIF) Thank you! Kristen Steingrandt

---------------------------------
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Re: [HN] Husband taking Wife's name

Date: 2006/12/01 19:06:10
From: Maureen <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>

Don't forget the influence of the wars and the politics, Jane!


----- Original Message ----- From: "JANE E SWAN" <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>
To: <Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] Husband taking Wife's name


Hi All: Just one more comment on this subject: It was quite common - I have several in my tree. Most of them did so because of name attached to a farm, esp. in the smaller villages. But I have at least one who (perhaps had to) changed his name to hers because she was descended from nobility - complete with the "von" - even tho she was just a Bürger's daughter in Celle. Ironically, the family later dropped the "von Eltze" and simply used the name of the father, Eggeling. The earlier Von Eltze no longer used (or perhaps were forbidden to) the coat-of-arms, even tho several of them were Bürgermeister of Celle. Again, ironically, almost 200 years later, one of the sons used the simple name Eggeling but resumed use of the von Eltze coat-of-arms. Makes for interesting speculation. What makes genealogy such fun. Jane


JANE E SWAN
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.


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Re: [HN] AIDA help part Zwei

Date: 2006/12/01 19:13:03
From: K Steingrandt <steingrandtorg(a)yahoo.com>

Thanks again Gale...I know I've tried that before, but there are two problems: online translations are really difficult to decipher because of their literal nature; and on AIDA, if you click onto another page from the translated page, it goes back to German.  I think it has to do with the frames on the site.
   
  

gale(a)bosche.info wrote:
  Kristen, this may help. Google "izn-AIDA". You will get 
the following. Click on the part "Translate this page"

izn-AIDA online - © Informatikzentrum Niedersachsen- [ 
Translate this page

Unfortunately, it is currently down for maintenance.

Gale

On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:44:25 -0500
wrote:
> Sorry Kristen, you loose again--no attachments on this 
> list. Attachments can contain nasty executable code and 
> such code is not wanted on the List.
> 
> Why not get together with someone off List and have them 
> walk you through step by step. Many people on the List 
> have "Windows", so you can have AIDA in one window, and 
> your e-mail in another window. With a short delay, you 
> can almost "talk" to each other.
> 
> Sorry, I don't read or write German. I will take a look 
> at AIDA, as I rermember, I was able to get through it in 
>a 
> limited fashion.
> 
> Gale
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:20:06 -0800 (PST)
> K Steingrandt wrote:
>> OK, one more try. What do I do once I get to this page? 
>> (see attached GIF)
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> 
>> Kristen Steingrandt
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------
>> Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone 
>>call rates.
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

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Re: [HN] Johann August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL

Date: 2006/12/01 19:20:47
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

 
In einer eMail vom 01.12.2006 18:20:00 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt  
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

Johann  August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL


Dear Terry
 
I don't know if they have all files in Hannover, but i can not imagine that  
they have devided the files of the Regiment into Hannover and England and  
Hessen, so if they have the files of the regiment you should find the datas of  
all men. I was not in the archive, but they must have lists what is  available.
 
But if they have the same files than in England, how could it happen that  
they have different places of birth in Hannover and in England in their lists.  
Looks like this are different files.
 
Another problem: It looks like that in the marriage records in England the  
name of the father is not named. Usually you see in Germany the name of the  
father sometimes the name of the father of the bride too.
 
So i can't find the father of Johann August cause i dont have his correct  
birthplace and he is not named in the marriage record.
 
Next problem: His firstborn son was probably Friedrich August Hattorff. He  
was going to NY in about 1842/43 i still try to find him in the shiplist. I  
found a hint at ancestry.com that a certain Friedrich August Hattorff married  
1844 in Memsen/Hoya in the Kingdom of Hannover. What is definitively not  
possible, cause he is still in the 1843 city directory of New York.
 
Frederick A. Hattorf (how he calls himself in the USA) is buried on  
Hollywood Cemetery in VA, under the name Hattoff, born in Oxbridge England. What  is 
nonsens so i think its Uxbridge i think i have seen a record about a regiment  
of the KGL which was in Uxbridge. And i think that his mother Susannah Brookes 
 was the daughter of a british officer of the KGL.
 
So what do i finally need:
The place of birth of Johann August Hattorff 
The place of birth of his son Friedrich August Hattorf probably  
Uxbridge/England about 1818
The marriage of Frederick A. Hattorf (not found in Memsen/Hoya) probably in  
New York
 
Do you know if there are micorfiches about the births in Uxbridge for  
example at the LDS-church?
 
Armin
 

Re: [HN] Husband Taking Wife's Surname

Date: 2006/12/01 19:20:48
From: Maureen <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>

Russians still do it .... man is Romanov and woman is Romanova. I kind of like it. My great grandmother was a Swede and her surname was Andersdotter --- while her brother's surname was Anderson! That surely makes it clear!

I also have some records from the Rheinland where the woman has "en" added to her surname. Then one instance of a male in that family having "er" added to his. Was that a mistake?

We have sunshine and an incredibly lush and beautiful blanket of snow in Chicago this morning!

Maureen


----- Original Message ----- From: <MagdalenaJLM(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] Husband Taking Wife's Surname


Sorry, That is correct, a at the end of female surname and i for  male.

Have a Nice Day! Jill

I am currently researching the  following  names:
Barlag,Bochenski,Bogdanski,Bredehoft,Brinkmann,Cawley,Ciesielski,Cieszkiewiez,
Drehs,Dress,Dufelmeyer,Dufelmeier,Fuelling/Fulling,Frese,Fresen,Hunken,Klindtw
orth,Hirschy,Jalonski,Kaminski,Kozielecki,Kozielewski,Kurgan,Leimkuehler,Leime
nkuhler,Ly
don,Mazgaj,Mesch,Obyc,Oesterhagen,Ostmeier/Ostmeyer,Obrock,Piechalski,Pieper,Poertner,Pranten,Quell,Rak,Reker,Redecker,Schwetscher,Speckmann,Sprin
ghorn,Thiessecharpen/Thieschaper,Thunhorst,Viel/Viets,Vischer,Winteregg,Wistin
ghausen,Wolers,/Wohlerst,Zinzack,  Zynczak,Zinczak
Jill  Leimkuehler











(MagdalenaJLM(a)aol.com)

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Re: [HN] AIDA help part Zwei

Date: 2006/12/01 20:05:26
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Kristen,  

       AIDA is not hard to work with - when it's working!  It is obviously
down once again.  That may explain some of your problems.
Go here:  http://aidaonline.niedersachsen.de/

     On that very page is a little blank box.  Enter a surname for example
(and possibly the given name if the surname is a common name) and click on
the little box to the right.  Perhaps you are searching for an event, a town
or some such.  You can search with different kinds of data. When you get
results, click on each one that fits what you are looking for.  Sometimes
there are quite a few results. Below that you will see the numbers where it
may something like 1-13. Look at every one.  Click it if you want more
information.  There may be more sets from the original search name--look at
each one. (some may be by title, some with the word that is included in the
data, etc.) Scroll down to the end to see that you have seen everything.
I've looked there and often find nothing.  Sometimes there is a tremendous
amount.  You can copy and paste to an online translator.  Or copy and paste
it in a message on this mailing list (Hannover-L) and ask for a translation.
You'll get help that way.

    I'm writing out this stuff from memory. The AIDA website is down and I
could have missed something in these directions.

Barbara 




on 12/1/06 11:06 AM, K Steingrandt at steingrandtorg(a)yahoo.com wrote:

> Thanks again Gale...I know I've tried that before, but there are two problems:
> online translations are really difficult to decipher because of their literal
> nature; and on AIDA, if you click onto another page from the translated page,
> it goes back to German.  I think it has to do with the frames on the site.
> 
> 
> 
> gale(a)bosche.info wrote:
> Kristen, this may help. Google "izn-AIDA". You will get
> the following. Click on the part "Translate this page"
> 
> izn-AIDA online - © Informatikzentrum Niedersachsen- [
> Translate this page
> 
> Unfortunately, it is currently down for maintenance.
> 
> Gale
> 
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:44:25 -0500
> wrote:
>> Sorry Kristen, you loose again--no attachments on this
>> list. Attachments can contain nasty executable code and
>> such code is not wanted on the List.
>> 
>> Why not get together with someone off List and have them
>> walk you through step by step. Many people on the List
>> have "Windows", so you can have AIDA in one window, and
>> your e-mail in another window. With a short delay, you
>> can almost "talk" to each other.
>> 
>> Sorry, I don't read or write German. I will take a look
>> at AIDA, as I rermember, I was able to get through it in
>> a 
>> limited fashion.
>> 
>> Gale
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:20:06 -0800 (PST)
>> K Steingrandt wrote:
>>> OK, one more try. What do I do once I get to this page?
>>> (see attached GIF)
>>> 
>>> Thank you!
>>> 
>>> Kristen Steingrandt
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------
>>> Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone
>>> call rates.
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] History of Hannover and need help with occupations

Date: 2006/12/01 23:21:24
From: Donna Allen <dballen(a)triconet.org>

Thanks, Don Roddy, for posting the information on how to get the history of Hannover.  I enjoyed reading it.  

I have a few occupations listed for which I cannot find the translation.  Can anyone help, please?

Dienstknecht/Hausler zu Alm (umlaud over the a, but my keyboard won't put it     into a message though I can use it in a Word Perfect document).
Hausling in Harber (umlaud over the a in Hausling)
Hauswirt zu Harber (Einheirat) - My dictionary says Hauswirt is landlord, so I         assume landlord in Harber, but was is Einheirat? 
Hofbesitzer in Hebenbrock 1729
Kirchenjurat = church jury - but what did this person do?

Thanks for any help!

Donna Allen
Tucson, AZ


Re: [HN] Johann August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL

Date: 2006/12/02 00:00:51
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello,
      In case you haven't seen the shiplists on Castlegarden.org, here is a
Hattorf with the last residence listed:

Search Results
 
Johann-hermann Hattorf
Occupation    Waiter
Age    23
Sex    M
Literacy    U
Arrived    29 Jan 1885
Origin    Prussia
Port    Bremen
Last Residence    Achim
Destination    New York
Plan    Unknown
Ship    Habsburg
Passage    Unknown

There are also Hattorfs of Achim listed here:
http://www.hist.de/edition-hist(e).html

 You can order 1852 census booklets for Achim at that site which would cover
the Hattorfs there.  Of course, it is possible that this wouldn't be helpful
to you at all.  A search on the LDS site with the name Hattorf(and nothing
else) shows a lot of them in several places in Hannover.

A search on here http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp
    for Hattorf shows several in Osterode (Harz) and Duderstadt and other
places. And a search for Hattorff yields a few more.

    I think you may have done all this research already, but I just thought
I'd see what I could find.

Barbara





on 12/1/06 11:15 AM, AJHattorf(a)aol.com at AJHattorf(a)aol.com wrote:

> 
> In einer eMail vom 01.12.2006 18:20:00 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt
> hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:
> 
> Johann  August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL
> 
> 
> Dear Terry
> 
> I don't know if they have all files in Hannover, but i can not imagine that
> they have devided the files of the Regiment into Hannover and England and
> Hessen, so if they have the files of the regiment you should find the datas of
> all men. I was not in the archive, but they must have lists what is
> available.
> 
> But if they have the same files than in England, how could it happen that
> they have different places of birth in Hannover and in England in their lists.
> Looks like this are different files.
> 
> Another problem: It looks like that in the marriage records in England the
> name of the father is not named. Usually you see in Germany the name of the
> father sometimes the name of the father of the bride too.
> 
> So i can't find the father of Johann August cause i dont have his correct
> birthplace and he is not named in the marriage record.
> 
> Next problem: His firstborn son was probably Friedrich August Hattorff. He
> was going to NY in about 1842/43 i still try to find him in the shiplist. I
> found a hint at ancestry.com that a certain Friedrich August Hattorff married
> 1844 in Memsen/Hoya in the Kingdom of Hannover. What is definitively not
> possible, cause he is still in the 1843 city directory of New York.
> 
> Frederick A. Hattorf (how he calls himself in the USA) is buried on
> Hollywood Cemetery in VA, under the name Hattoff, born in Oxbridge England.
> What  is 
> nonsens so i think its Uxbridge i think i have seen a record about a regiment
> of the KGL which was in Uxbridge. And i think that his mother Susannah Brookes
> was the daughter of a british officer of the KGL.
> 
> So what do i finally need:
> The place of birth of Johann August Hattorff
> The place of birth of his son Friedrich August Hattorf probably
> Uxbridge/England about 1818
> The marriage of Frederick A. Hattorf (not found in Memsen/Hoya) probably in
> New York
> 
> Do you know if there are micorfiches about the births in Uxbridge for
> example at the LDS-church?
> 
> Armin
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Zufallsfund aus Göttingen: Habe/Suche Car l Justus Albrecht LORENZ (*err. 09.09.1796)

Date: 2006/12/02 00:08:12
From: guenter . bassen <guenter.bassen(a)arcor.de>

Hallo Listis,

im Ksp. Rotenburg/Wümme habe ich folgenden Zufallsfund:

Carl Justus Albrecht LORENZ, *err. 09.09.1796 in Göttingen ???, +18.08.1871 in Rotenburg (77J 11M 9T)
    Eltern: Johann Friedrich Lorenz (Beruf ist nicht zu lesen) und Dorette geb. Willich in Göttingen

heiratet ca. 1815 (erstes Kind am 11.10.1817 geboren) in Göttingen ???? (nicht in Rotenburg !!!!)

Johanna JÄGER, *err. 04.1791 in ?????, +12.01.1823 in Rotenburg (31J 9M), sonst ist nichts bekannt.

1824 findet eine 2. Heirat statt, Daten bekannt

Carl Justus Albrecht LORENZ wird in Rotenburg als Einwohner und Buchbinder genannt, 1844 als Bürgermeister.

Wer kann mir zu der Heirat Lorenz/Jäger bzw. der Familie Lorenz/Willich mehr sagen?


Viele Grüße     Günter (Bassen)


Günter Bassen
Westend 6
27419 Klein Meckelsen

Suche in ganz Deutschland:  Bassen, Jagels
Suche in Windershusen (Ksp. Selsingen): Meyer
Suche in Lerbach bei Osterode am Harz:  Oppermann

Klein Meckelsen: 2001 Bundessieger "Unser Dorf soll schöner werden"
http://www.klein-meckelsen.de/


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[HN] Zufallsfund aus Tweelbäke (Oldenburg) : Habe/Suche Margaretha Sophia REHLING (*10.05.182 7)

Date: 2006/12/02 00:10:43
From: guenter . bassen <guenter.bassen(a)arcor.de>

Hallo Listis,

im Ksp. Rotenburg/Wümme habe ich folgenden Zufallsfund:

Margaretha Sophia REHLING, *10.05.1827in Tweelbäke (Oldenburg), + 24.01.1861 in Rotenburg
    Eltern: Johann Rehling (Arbeits-/Ackersmann) und Metta Catharina geb. von Lienen

heiratet 31.10.1856 in Rotenburg

Johann Wilhelm Heinrich PETERS, * 28.07.1829 in Rotenburg, + nach 01.1861 in Rotenburg, Eltern sind bekannt

Wer kann mir zu der Familie Rehling/von Lienen mehr sagen?


Viele Grüße     Günter (Bassen)


Günter Bassen
Westend 6
27419 Klein Meckelsen

Suche in ganz Deutschland:  Bassen, Jagels
Suche in Windershusen (Ksp. Selsingen): Meyer
Suche in Lerbach bei Osterode am Harz:  Oppermann

Klein Meckelsen: 2001 Bundessieger "Unser Dorf soll schöner werden"
http://www.klein-meckelsen.de/


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Re: [HN] HATTORF

Date: 2006/12/02 00:41:59
From: Drwinde <Drwinde(a)aol.com>

Hi Armin,
There was an old family HATTORF which used the name OSTERODE too in the  14th 
century in Braunschweig (=Brunswick) in Lower saxony.
This family  probably came from the village Hattorf in the former county of 
Grubenhagen  nearby of  the residence Osterode/Harz.
So perhaps you have to search in  Braunschweig.
Greetings from Bremen!
Cord


Dr.med. Cord  Winde
Bremen / Deutschland
e.mail:  drwinde(a)aol.com


[HN] Hattorff / Hattorf

Date: 2006/12/02 06:22:00
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Thank you Barbara, thank you Cord
 
Yes Barbara i have those in my tree, but as long as i find Hattorffs which  
are NOT in the familytree and there are still a lot of question marks of 
missing  people i am very thankful for every hint i can get. Most of the Hattorfs 
have  been living in the early years in that Triangle Hattorf, Osterode, 
Duderstadt  and the closer region like Northeim and so on,  later they spread to  
Westfalia and Hannover and Brunswick.
 
Cord i thank you too, i know that some of the old Hattorf familys  originally 
coming from Osterode or Duderstadt have been living in Brunswick, but  
perhaps i should take a closer look on those Brunswick files. Somewere i should  
find those missing Hattorfs.
 
Do you have a special name of the person which was called "Osterode". I  know 
only one person using this name. That was the father of Valentin Hattorf  
(Valtin Hattorp in his days) Hans. He was living in Duderstadt but he was called  
"Hans von Osterode" what is only a kind of nickname, his correct name was 
Hans  Hattorp.
 
That tree is beginning about 1420 with Hildebrand Hattorp and ends ... no  it 
ends not, cause there are descendends living in New York and Virginia and  
California and i turn the light off here in Germany.
 
But with help of that group i found more Hattorf names that dont fit into  
the tree i have to find out who is who and how they get into that big puzzle.  
And that is why its so important for me to find the father of Johann August  
Hattorff, cause i dont think that he was the only child of the family, were he  
is are perhaps more of the lost Hattorfs.
 
Armin

Re: [HN] History of Hannover and need help with occupations

Date: 2006/12/02 08:42:44
From: Maureen <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>

Thanks for asking! I need Hausler and Hausling, too! My online translator doesn't translate either word!


----- Original Message ----- From: "Donna Allen" <dballen(a)triconet.org>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 4:47 PM
Subject: [HN] History of Hannover and need help with occupations


Thanks, Don Roddy, for posting the information on how to get the history of Hannover. I enjoyed reading it.

I have a few occupations listed for which I cannot find the translation. Can anyone help, please?

Dienstknecht/Hausler zu Alm (umlaud over the a, but my keyboard won't put it into a message though I can use it in a Word Perfect document).
Hausling in Harber (umlaud over the a in Hausling)
Hauswirt zu Harber (Einheirat) - My dictionary says Hauswirt is landlord, so I assume landlord in Harber, but was is Einheirat?
Hofbesitzer in Hebenbrock 1729
Kirchenjurat = church jury - but what did this person do?

Thanks for any help!

Donna Allen
Tucson, AZ

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] History of Hannover and need help with occupations

Date: 2006/12/02 10:03:29
From: Albert Emmerich <Emmerich.Albert(a)t-online.de>

Hi Donna,
let me try to explain the professions you are looking for:

Häusler: owns a small house, but no or very little land. So he had to work in another profession (mostly day laborer, craftsman or herdsman)

Häusling: does not own any hause or land, lives on a farm and works on that farm. They were free people: no contract with the owner of the farm.

Einheirat: Heirat = marriage, Einheirat means that somebody marries into a family. In your case the man became landlord (Hauswirt) by marrying the landlady.

Hofbesitzer: Proprietor of a farm

Kirchenjurat: This is not really a profession, a Kirchenjurat does the administration for the possession of a church, appointed for a certain time as three years. They have a main "normal" profession beside this job.


Älm, Heber, and Hebenbrock are names of villages.


As I am German, I cannot give the exact translation into English, but I hope, the explanations will help.


Albert (Emmerich)
Cremlingen, Lower Saxony, Germany



 "Donna Allen" <mailto:dballen(a)triconet.org> schrieb:
> Thanks, Don Roddy, for posting the information on how to get the history of Hannover.  I enjoyed reading it.  
> 
> I have a few occupations listed for which I cannot find the translation.  Can anyone help, please?
> 
> Dienstknecht/Hausler zu Alm (umlaud over the a, but my keyboard won't put it     into a message though I can use it in a Word Perfect document).
> Hausling in Harber (umlaud over the a in Hausling)
> Hauswirt zu Harber (Einheirat) - My dictionary says Hauswirt is landlord, so I         assume landlord in Harber, but was is Einheirat? 
> Hofbesitzer in Hebenbrock 1729
> Kirchenjurat = church jury - but what did this person do?
> 
> Thanks for any help!
> 
> Donna Allen
> Tucson, AZ
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> mailto:Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>

[HN] Hattorf / Uxbridge in Middlesex, England

Date: 2006/12/02 15:39:37
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi,
There seems to have been more than one Hannoverian Hattorff in English barracks. A Sergeant has been mentioned and below is an officer; Captain G. Hattorf serving with the Earl of Uxbridge in the "Light Dragoons". I can tell you that soldiers had/have to make private arrangements for their wives and children and sometimes when the soldier is posted to a new barracks his family get left behind or go to their own parents homes until the soldier can make arrangements for his family to join him. My 3 children were all born in different towns - this is because my husband was in H.M. Forces. You need to find the soldier's army record which should include that he asked permission to marry. If this cannot be found there is always the official army diaries which details where the battalions and regiments were sent to.

====
The following is a list of Middlesex churches which have deposited their registers at the London Metropolitan Archives, 40 Northampton Road, London EC1R 0HB : There was a Chapel in Uxbridge until 1827 when Uxbridge was formed into a parish.
St Andrew ~ High Street, Uxbridge
St Margaret ~ Windsor Street, Uxbridge
St John the Evangelist ~ Uxbridge Moor, Hilligdon = from 1847
St John the Baptist ~ Uxbridge Road, Hillingdon
=========
http://www.napoleonic-literature.com/WE/Casualties-18_June.html

Napoleonic Literature
Waterloo Excerpts
Officer Casualty List for the Anglo-Allied Army:
18 June 1815

LIST OF OFFICERS, KILLED, WOUNDED, AND MISSING.
(Extracted from the London Gazette.)
BATTLE OF THE 18th.

WOUNDED
First Light Dragoons, K. G. L.-Lieutenant-Colonel John Bulow, severely; Major A. Reitzenstein, slightly; Captain B. Bothmer, severely; Captains P. Sichart and G. HATTORF, slightly.

General Staff-General His Royal Highness the Prince of Orange, G. C. B. severely; Lieutenant-General the Earl of UXBRIDGE, G.C.B. severely (right leg amputated)
=====
ALSO : http://www.kgl.de/KingsGermanLegion/geschichte/1814_1815niederlande_waterloo/schwertfeger/schwertfeger601_616.htm

=====
Not all German records are in London, I found these for 'Hattorf' in Buckinghamshire, Cambridgeshire and Suffolk (English) archives:
http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp

SUCHE = "Hattorf" = 6 entries jahr 1700's
Hattorf's  "Regiment of Dragoons"
===
London Gazette = http://www.gazettesonline.co.uk/
===
<> Next problem: His firstborn son was probably Friedrich August Hattorff. He
was going to NY in about 1842/43 i still try to find him in the shiplist. I found a hint at ancestry.com that a certain Friedrich August Hattorff married
1844 in Memsen/Hoya in the Kingdom of Hannover. What is definitively not
possible, cause he is still in the 1843 city directory of New York.>>

They did not have computer databases in 1842/1844 and it is possible the 1843 directory took a year to check the names and print the book. This is how long it took in England 1970's!
====

Good Luck!!!
Rena in England
==

3. Re: Johann August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL (R&B Stewart)
6. Re: HATTORF (Drwinde(a)aol.com)
7. Hattorff / Hattorf (AJHattorf(a)aol.com)
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 16:00:20 -0700
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Johann August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL
Hello,
     In case you haven't seen the shiplists on Castlegarden.org, here is a
Hattorf with the last residence listed:

Search Results
Johann-hermann Hattorf
Occupation    Waiter
Age    23
Sex    M
Literacy    U
Arrived    29 Jan 1885
Origin    Prussia
Port    Bremen
Last Residence    Achim
Destination    New York
Plan    Unknown
Ship    Habsburg
Passage    Unknown

on 12/1/06 11:15 AM, AJHattorf(a)aol.com at AJHattorf(a)aol.com wrote:
In einer eMail vom 01.12.2006 18:20:00 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:
Johann  August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL
Dear Terry
I don't know if they have all files in Hannover, but i can not imagine that
they have devided the files of the Regiment into Hannover and England and
Hessen, so if they have the files of the regiment you should find the datas of
all men. I was not in the archive, but they must have lists what is
available.
But if they have the same files than in England, how could it happen that
they have different places of birth in Hannover and in England in their lists.
Looks like this are different files.

Another problem: It looks like that in the marriage records in England the
name of the father is not named. Usually you see in Germany the name of the
father sometimes the name of the father of the bride too.

So i can't find the father of Johann August cause i dont have his correct
birthplace and he is not named in the marriage record.

Next problem: His firstborn son was probably Friedrich August Hattorff. He
was going to NY in about 1842/43 i still try to find him in the shiplist. I found a hint at ancestry.com that a certain Friedrich August Hattorff married
1844 in Memsen/Hoya in the Kingdom of Hannover. What is definitively not
possible, cause he is still in the 1843 city directory of New York.

Frederick A. Hattorf (how he calls himself in the USA) is buried on
Hollywood Cemetery in VA, under the name Hattoff, born in Oxbridge England.
What  is
nonsens so i think its Uxbridge i think i have seen a record about a regiment of the KGL which was in Uxbridge. And i think that his mother Susannah Brookes
was the daughter of a british officer of the KGL.

So what do i finally need:
The place of birth of Johann August Hattorff
The place of birth of his son Friedrich August Hattorf probably
Uxbridge/England about 1818
The marriage of Frederick A. Hattorf (not found in Memsen/Hoya) probably in
New York

Do you know if there are micorfiches about the births in Uxbridge for
example at the LDS-church?

Armin
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 18:41:38 EST
From: Drwinde(a)aol.com
Subject: Re: [HN] HATTORF
Hi Armin,
There was an old family HATTORF which used the name OSTERODE too in the 14th
century in Braunschweig (=Brunswick) in Lower saxony.
This family  probably came from the village Hattorf in the former county of
Grubenhagen  nearby of  the residence Osterode/Harz.
So perhaps you have to search in  Braunschweig.
Greetings from Bremen!
Cord

Dr.med. Cord  Winde
Bremen / Deutschland
e.mail:  drwinde(a)aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 00:21:43 EST
From: AJHattorf(a)aol.com
Subject: [HN] Hattorff / Hattorf
Thank you Barbara, thank you Cord
Yes Barbara i have those in my tree, but as long as i find Hattorffs which
are NOT in the familytree and there are still a lot of question marks of
missing people i am very thankful for every hint i can get. Most of the Hattorfs
have  been living in the early years in that Triangle Hattorf, Osterode,
Duderstadt and the closer region like Northeim and so on, later they spread to
Westfalia and Hannover and Brunswick.
Cord i thank you too, i know that some of the old Hattorf familys originally
coming from Osterode or Duderstadt have been living in Brunswick, but
perhaps i should take a closer look on those Brunswick files. Somewere i should
find those missing Hattorfs.

Do you have a special name of the person which was called "Osterode". I know
only one person using this name. That was the father of Valentin Hattorf
(Valtin Hattorp in his days) Hans. He was living in Duderstadt but he was called
"Hans von Osterode" what is only a kind of nickname, his correct name was
Hans  Hattorp.

That tree is beginning about 1420 with Hildebrand Hattorp and ends ... no it
ends not, cause there are descendends living in New York and Virginia and
California and i turn the light off here in Germany.

But with help of that group i found more Hattorf names that dont fit into
the tree i have to find out who is who and how they get into that big puzzle.
And that is why its so important for me to find the father of Johann August
Hattorff, cause i dont think that he was the only child of the family, were he
is are perhaps more of the lost Hattorfs.
Armin
***************************************************


Re: [HN] History of Hannover and need help with occupations

Date: 2006/12/02 16:14:14
From: Fred Kattau <fred(a)kattslair.com>

Greetings Herr Emmerich
Your explanation of the various titles should help many people. One of the problems Americans have with these things is that we have no equivalent. Therefore, there really is no "translation". The long traditions in the German areas did not carry to this traditionless land, so the common conditions of hausling, vollmeyer, halbmeyer, and such do not exist. Most of our population also already had two or three names when they came here, so, John from Chicago is not a likely name, (unless John was hiding or something) :-)
Thank you
Fred Kattau Great grandfather born in Dueste amt Diepholz

[HN] (kein Betreff)

Date: 2006/12/02 17:43:37
From: Ursula Wojciechowski <ruhwo(a)gmx.de>

Hallo Hans Hermann Brunkhorst,
ist Dir die Linie Brunckhorst aus Bartelsdorf schon bekannt? Bis 1809 sind mir einige Daten bekannt. Ansonsten würde ich Dir nachfolgende Chronik empfehlen.

Am Samstag, 02. Dezember 2006 erscheint erstmals eine Ortschronik für den Ort Bartelsdorf im Landkreis Rotenburg/ Wümme. Sie umfaßt 532 Seiten und enthält auch eine sehr umfangreiche Höfechronik, die unter Mithilfe des Scheeßeler Familien- und Höfeforschers Jürgen Hoops erarbeitet wurde.

 Es grüßt Ursula Wojciechowski


[HN] Holzerode/Harz. Carl Isenhut

Date: 2006/12/02 19:22:08
From: Jurgen Schwiening <schwiening(a)tesco.net>

Liebe Familienforscher,

Ich hätte gern gewusst, ob sich jemand für die Geschichte des Dorfes
Holzerode am Harz und die dortige Schule interessiert oder sogar erforscht.
Mein Interesse daran ist folgendes: Der Onkel meines Grossvaters war dort um
1890 herum Lehrer. Sein Name war Carl Isenhut. Ich habe einige Erinnerungen
meines Grossvaters Otto Becker, der dort bis etwa 1895 in die Schule ging.

Jürgen Schwiening, Market Bosworth, England


Re: [HN] History of Hannover and need help with occupations

Date: 2006/12/02 19:26:55
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Everybody,

      Just some remarks on genealogy (primarily church records)--

    The listing of an occupation is very helpful! I have been researching
records in England and found the listings of 3 marriages of William Snape.
Since I knew the occupation of "my" William Snape, I could determine which
marriage was the right one.

    Also--those of us who are doing research in Germany must be very
grateful that the records are so detailed. Birth records usually list the
the surnames of the parents, father's occupation, godparents, etc. In
Bavaria I found records even listing the midwife!  The names of godparents
are listed and that can be so helpful.

   Not so in the part of England I have been searching in! I found birth
records with a date and nothing more than "Thomas, son of Thomas Lees" and
the date. I have yet to find marriage records with the parents of the
husband and wife. They do list the woman's surname--thank you! Sometimes the
occupation of the husband is included. The German script may be difficult to
us English-speaking folks, but so much more information is available for
research in Germany!

Barbara





on 12/2/06 12:42 AM, Maureen at mcshelly2(a)msn.com wrote:

> Thanks for asking!  I need Hausler and Hausling, too!  My online translator
> doesn't translate either word!
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donna Allen" <dballen(a)triconet.org>
> To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 4:47 PM
> Subject: [HN] History of Hannover and need help with occupations
> 
> 
> Thanks, Don Roddy, for posting the information on how to get the history of
> Hannover.  I enjoyed reading it.
> 
> I have a few occupations listed for which I cannot find the translation.
> Can anyone help, please?
> 
> Dienstknecht/Hausler zu Alm (umlaud over the a, but my keyboard won't put it
> into a message though I can use it in a Word Perfect document).
> Hausling in Harber (umlaud over the a in Hausling)
> Hauswirt zu Harber (Einheirat) - My dictionary says Hauswirt is landlord, so
> I         assume landlord in Harber, but was is Einheirat?
> Hofbesitzer in Hebenbrock 1729
> Kirchenjurat = church jury - but what did this person do?
> 
> Thanks for any help!
> 
> Donna Allen
> Tucson, AZ
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] HATTORF-OSTERODE

Date: 2006/12/02 20:46:00
From: Drwinde <Drwinde(a)aol.com>

Hi Armin,
The family I mentioned took the name OSTERODE, and sometimes HATTORF.
But in Braunschweig they are mentioned as OSTERODE. They belonged in that  
time to the patrician families of Braunschweig. (Look "Sources")
Here are the only 2 members of this name in my genealogy:
 
 
1. Generation
————————————————————————————————————————
 
1 Metteke OSTERODE (HATTORF), VON[1],[2], 636865. Geboren  zirka  1339.[3] 
gestorben  nach 1374, sie war 35.[4]
 
Sie heiratete Bernt II. VECHELDE, VON[1],[4], 636864, in zirka 1349 in  
Braunschweig, Niedersachsen, D.[1],[2]
 
Sie hatten ein Kind:
i. Hermann II. ("der  Alte")[1],[4], 318432 (1350-1420)
 

2. Generation
————————————————————————————————————————
 
2 Barthold OSTERODE (HATTORF), VON[3],[2], 1273730.
 
Kind:
1 i. Metteke, 636865 (ca1339->1374)
 
Quellen: ("Sources")

1. "VON VECHELDE-Pedigree," FamilySearch Pedigree ResourceFile,CD#74,  
CompactDisc #74, FamilySearch - Church-Of-The-Latter-Days-Saints (Mormonen),  USA, 
Submission Search: 1751104-0619102114830, Submitter: Gerda EDMUNDS, 8  Willow 
Pond Drive Rockland, MA 02370, USA, Download 28.12.2004 durch Dr.Cord  Winde.

2. "Von VECHELDE. Die Geschichte einer Braunschweiger  Patrizierfamilie.," 
Werkstücke aus Museum, Archiv und Bibliothek der Stadt  Braunschweig, 
StadtArchiv, Waisenhaus-Buchdruckerei, Braunschweig, Spiess,  Werner, 1951, 1.Auflage, 
S.1 - 206.

3. SCHRADER-VECHELDE-etc., "Sippenverband Ziering-Motitz-Alemann,"  
Fritsche&Spielhagen, Manuskript gedruckt, Dr.W.Spielhagen, Mai 1940, 4, S.  19-54, (Dr. 
Cord Winde Bremen im Mrz.2006).

4. "Genealogien  Braunschweiger Patrizier- und Ratsgeschlechter aus der Zeit 
der  Selbstständigkeit der Stadt (vor 1671).," Braunschweiger Werkstücke Band 
12.,  StadtArchiv Braunschweig, MeyerVerlag, Reidemeister, Sophie, 1948,  
S.154-159.
 

Index
 
OSTERODE HATTORF, VON
Barthold 2
Metteke (ca1339 -  >1374) 1
VECHELDE, VON
Bernt II. (1310 -  ca1367) Ehegatte von 1
Hermann II. ("der Alte") (1350 -  1420) Kind von 1
 
————————————————————————————————————————

Greetings from Bremen and Good Luck!
 
Dr.med. CORD WINDE
D-28209 BREMEN
e.mail: _drwinde(a)aol.com_ (mailto:drwinde(a)aol.com) 


[HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/02 22:27:32
From: Allen T. <athn(a)alltel.net>

Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:

I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870 -1950. How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of the person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New York, having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had an address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover. From a 1901 map of Hannover (wonderfully scanned in color) the city is laid out with its various districts and streets. The index for the map lists six "Gartens" with various names. This is the link:

http://www.hicleones.com/callmap-e.php?tekst=10049&map=Hanover%2FHannover%20-%20City

I am wondering if perhaps the Gartens were numbered by the locals and used to describe a part of the city of Hannover they lived. This is what I am working with:

*Place in Hannover*:   Hannover, Garteneg 6
*Person residing there*:  Heinrich Haupt
*When*:  1870 -- 1950
*Daughter of Heinrich Haupt*: Karoline Thigpen (presumably Karoline Haupt before marriage to Thigpen) *Time Frame*: Address of Hannover, Garteneg 6 was given on New York port entry record in 1925. Karoline stated that this was her father's address.

My objective is to find Heinrich Haupt and and his family. Heinrich Haupt's daughter, Karoline, married my cousin, William D. Thigpen around 1920-1925.

Best regards,
Allen Thigpen

Re: [HN] History of Hannover and need help with occupations

Date: 2006/12/02 23:16:33
From: Paul Scheele <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>

Regarding Donna Allen's questions about professions. Herr Emmerich did a
great job explaining the professions meanings. The explanation of a
Dienstknecht was missing however. I believe a Dienstknecht was generally a
servant boy or man.

I would recommend that Donna try to purchase the "German - English
Genealogical Dictionary" by Ernest Thode. He gives translations for most of
the terms you might find doing german genealogical research. I think it is
usually available at Amazon or Barnes & Noble.

Paul Scheele

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
> bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Albert Emmerich
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:08 AM
> To: Hannover-L
> Subject: Re: [HN] History of Hannover and need help with occupations
> 
> Hi Donna,
> let me try to explain the professions you are looking for:
> 
> Häusler: owns a small house, but no or very little land. So he had to work
> in another profession (mostly day laborer, craftsman or herdsman)
> 
> Häusling: does not own any hause or land, lives on a farm and works on
> that farm. They were free people: no contract with the owner of the farm.
> 
> Einheirat: Heirat = marriage, Einheirat means that somebody marries into a
> family. In your case the man became landlord (Hauswirt) by marrying the
> landlady.
> 
> Hofbesitzer: Proprietor of a farm
> 
> Kirchenjurat: This is not really a profession, a Kirchenjurat does the
> administration for the possession of a church, appointed for a certain
> time as three years. They have a main "normal" profession beside this job.
> 
> 
> Älm, Heber, and Hebenbrock are names of villages.
> 
> 
> As I am German, I cannot give the exact translation into English, but I
> hope, the explanations will help.
> 
> 
> Albert (Emmerich)
> Cremlingen, Lower Saxony, Germany
> 
> 
> 
>  "Donna Allen" <mailto:dballen(a)triconet.org> schrieb:
> > Thanks, Don Roddy, for posting the information on how to get the history
> of Hannover.  I enjoyed reading it.
> >
> > I have a few occupations listed for which I cannot find the translation.
> Can anyone help, please?
> >
> > Dienstknecht/Hausler zu Alm (umlaud over the a, but my keyboard won't
> put it     into a message though I can use it in a Word Perfect document).
> > Hausling in Harber (umlaud over the a in Hausling)
> > Hauswirt zu Harber (Einheirat) - My dictionary says Hauswirt is
> landlord, so I         assume landlord in Harber, but was is Einheirat?
> > Hofbesitzer in Hebenbrock 1729
> > Kirchenjurat = church jury - but what did this person do?
> >
> > Thanks for any help!
> >
> > Donna Allen
> > Tucson, AZ
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > mailto:Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> >
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/02 23:46:15
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Allen,
      I'm wondering if you have a date of birth for Heinrich Haupt.  The LDS
have these entries for Heinrich Haupt:

Heinrich Friedrich Ferdinand Haupt    
Birth:     22 JAN 1862     Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen
Christening:     28 MAR 1862     Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen

Heinrich Friedrich August Haupt 
Birth: 19 JAN 1882  
Christening: 05 MAR 1882      Hannover Stadt, Hannover, PreussenDeath: 

Heinrich Wilhelm Gustav Haupt
Birth: 30 OCT 1887 
Christening: 01 JAN 1888      Hannover Stadt, Hannover

There are others listed.
   

Barbara


on 12/2/06 2:27 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:

> Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:
> 
> I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870 -1950.
> How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of the
> person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New York,
> having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had an
> address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.
> From a 1901 map of Hannover (wonderfully scanned in color) the city is
> laid out with its various districts and streets. The index for the map
> lists six "Gartens" with various names. This is the link:
> 
> http://www.hicleones.com/callmap-e.php?tekst=10049&map=Hanover%2FHannover%20-%
> 20City
> 
> I am wondering if perhaps the Gartens were numbered by the locals and
> used to describe a part of the city of Hannover they lived. This is what
> I am working with:
> 
> *Place in Hannover*:   Hannover, Garteneg 6
> *Person residing there*:  Heinrich Haupt
> *When*:  1870 -- 1950
> *Daughter of Heinrich Haupt*:   Karoline Thigpen   (presumably Karoline
> Haupt before marriage to Thigpen)
> *Time Frame*:  Address of Hannover, Garteneg 6 was given on New York
> port entry record in 1925. Karoline stated that this was her father's
> address.
> 
> My objective is to find Heinrich Haupt and and his family. Heinrich
> Haupt's daughter, Karoline, married my cousin, William D. Thigpen around
> 1920-1925.
> 
> Best regards,
> Allen Thigpen
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/03 00:21:57
From: Allen T. <athn(a)alltel.net>

Hi Barbara, thank you for your reply. Heinrich Haupt's daughter, Karoline, was born in (1900 - 1901); therefore, we can assume that Heinrich was most likely born between 1850 and 1882.

Allen Thigpen

R&B Stewart wrote:
Hello Allen,
      I'm wondering if you have a date of birth for Heinrich Haupt.  The LDS
have these entries for Heinrich Haupt:

Heinrich Friedrich Ferdinand Haupt Birth: 22 JAN 1862 Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen
Christening:     28 MAR 1862     Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen

Heinrich Friedrich August Haupt Birth: 19 JAN 1882 Christening: 05 MAR 1882 Hannover Stadt, Hannover, PreussenDeath:
Heinrich Wilhelm Gustav Haupt
Birth: 30 OCT 1887 Christening: 01 JAN 1888 Hannover Stadt, Hannover

There are others listed.
Barbara


on 12/2/06 2:27 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:

Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:

I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870 -1950.
How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of the
person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New York,
having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had an
address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.
From a 1901 map of Hannover (wonderfully scanned in color) the city is
laid out with its various districts and streets. The index for the map
lists six "Gartens" with various names. This is the link:

http://www.hicleones.com/callmap-e.php?tekst=10049&map=Hanover%2FHannover%20-%
20City

I am wondering if perhaps the Gartens were numbered by the locals and
used to describe a part of the city of Hannover they lived. This is what
I am working with:

*Place in Hannover*:   Hannover, Garteneg 6
*Person residing there*:  Heinrich Haupt
*When*:  1870 -- 1950
*Daughter of Heinrich Haupt*:   Karoline Thigpen   (presumably Karoline
Haupt before marriage to Thigpen)
*Time Frame*:  Address of Hannover, Garteneg 6 was given on New York
port entry record in 1925. Karoline stated that this was her father's
address.

My objective is to find Heinrich Haupt and and his family. Heinrich
Haupt's daughter, Karoline, married my cousin, William D. Thigpen around
1920-1925.

Best regards,
Allen Thigpen
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



Re: [HN] Johann August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL

Date: 2006/12/03 00:23:11
From: Walter Bitterberg <walter(a)bitterberg-bonn.de>

AJHattorf(a)aol.com schrieb:
Dear Listies
We had spoken about Johann August Hattorff this year. < snip>
In  his files in England they say he is born in "Schoningen".
Hann 48 a I Nr. 123 Stammrolle des Regiments 1804 – 1808 Pag. 12 Register of Men , First Troop No. No. 4 Rank Serg. Name August Hattorf Age 25 Size feet 5, inches 9 where born country Hannover town Uslar trade - In... March 20 1804 No. of years 7 Bounty money received 4 pounds 6 ... description eyes blue hair black complex. fair service ... Hann. regiment 8th reg. of cavalry no. of years 7 remarks - So after this files he should be born in Uslar, what is not far away from Schoningen, once again i send someone to check the churchbooks to find the birth of Johann August Hattorf.

The Ortsfamilienbuch Uslar was recently published. There is no Johann August Hattorf mentioned but there are some von Hattorfs listed.

=4983= Hattorf, Johann Philipp, Erbherr, Oberfaktor
~ 26.3.1676 in Osterode St. Marien
+ 1.12.1741 in Uslar
buried 3.2.1741 in  Schoningen

=4984= Hattorf, von, Friedrich Martin  Oberamtmann in Uslar
* 25.2.1681 Osterode +9.5. 1740 in Uslar buried 11.5.1740 in Schoningen

=4985 = Hattorf, von Georg Just Ludolph Erbherr auf Uslar, Schoningen und Verliehausen
* 17.7.1784 Gut Wied/Dannenberg +23.8. 1853 in Uslar/ Papiermühle

=4987= Hattorf, von Johann Ernst Commissions-Rath * um 1707 + 7.9.1754 Uslar

=4988= Hattorf, von Just Friedrich *17.5.1708 in Elbingerrode + 28.12.1766 in Uslar

One wonders if Johann August Hattorf could be an illegitimate son of one of the Hattorf families mentioned above. In the Ortsfamilienbuch there is no evidence of that.

The Ortsfamilienbuch was edited by Klaus Kunze, Fürstenberg. I believe he is a subscriber of this list.

Best Regards
Walter Bitterberg



Re: [HN] Johann August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL (Correction)

Date: 2006/12/03 00:50:11
From: Walter Bitterberg <walter(a)bitterberg-bonn.de>

Walter Bitterberg schrieb:




The Ortsfamilienbuch was edited by Klaus Kunze, Fürstenberg. I believe he is a subscriber of this list.

I made a stupid mistake there. Klaus Kunze lives not in Fürstenberg but in Fürstenhagen. Beg your pardon, it was late when i wrote it.


Re: [HN] Hattorffs in the KGL

Date: 2006/12/03 01:09:18
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Hi Rena 
 
Wow nice to hear from you, you have a lot of informations for me. Yes  i 
always new that their was a second Hattorff serving in the KGL. Even his name  is 
not in the list. His name was Georg Heinrich von Hattorff he was one of the  
nobled line of our family. He was fighting at Salamancar and Waterloo against  
Napoleon. He was a captain or in those days they called him "Rittmeister" what 
 is the same like Captain.
 
He is no secret to me. But with your help i have now the adresses of  the 
curches in Uxbridge. I am sure that Frederick August is born there. The  first 
born children of Johann August were born in England the next two in  Germany. 
The secret is why did Johann August disband in 1824 most of his comrads  are 
disbandes in about 1816 after Waterloo. 
 
Was it his father in law who would like to see him longer in Great Britain?  
Maybe Mr. Brookes was in the army too.
 
And i wonder why i could find Johann August in the LDS files but not his  son 
Frederick A.
 
Usually their should be files at the LDS church.
 
Thank you so much for your assitance.
 
Armin

[HN] Address help

Date: 2006/12/03 04:00:59
From: DSore10588 <DSore10588(a)aol.com>

Could someone please tell me the correct format (what goes on each line)  for 
addressing the envelope to send a letter to this address?
 
Kirchenkreisamt Uelzen, Taubenstr. 1, D 29525 Uelzen- Germany
 
And, could you also tell me who I am writing to?  How should I address  the 
letter?
 
Thank you.
 
Janet



Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/03 05:21:24
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Allen,

      This is just a suggestion-- Many people named their children after
their own parents.  Here's a Heinrich Haupt with a mother by the name of
Carolina--close to the Karoline name you have.

 HEINRICH WILHELM LUDWIG HAUPT

Birth: 
17 NOV 1878       Hannover, Preussen
Christening: 
01 DEC 1878      Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen

Parents:
     Father:     AUGUST LUDWIG HAUPT     Family
     Mother:     CAROLINA HENRIETTE DORIS WEDEKIND

It really can't be proven with the information you have.  Where was Karoline
born? 

Another thought-- since many of the Haupt names on the LDS site have 3 or 4
names,  it could be that your Heinrich could have been anything like Johann
Heinrich August Haupt and his records are stated with the formal name. But
he used the name of Heinrich Haupt most often. That can be really confusing.

I'm wondering that the Garteneg 6 mentioned isn't supposed to be
"Gartenweg".  Garten means Garden.  A Google search lists "Gartenweg" but  I
don't know what that means either.

Not much help, am I?  I hope you can find your answers.

Barbara










on 12/2/06 4:21 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:

> Hi Barbara, thank you for your reply.  Heinrich Haupt's daughter,
> Karoline, was born in (1900 - 1901); therefore, we can assume that
> Heinrich was most likely born between 1850 and 1882.
> 
> Allen Thigpen
> 
> R&B Stewart wrote:
>> Hello Allen,
>> I'm wondering if you have a date of birth for Heinrich Haupt.  The LDS
>> have these entries for Heinrich Haupt:
>> 
>> Heinrich Friedrich Ferdinand Haupt
>> Birth:     22 JAN 1862     Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen
>> Christening:     28 MAR 1862     Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen
>> 
>> Heinrich Friedrich August Haupt
>> Birth: 19 JAN 1882
>> Christening: 05 MAR 1882      Hannover Stadt, Hannover, PreussenDeath:
>> 
>> Heinrich Wilhelm Gustav Haupt
>> Birth: 30 OCT 1887
>> Christening: 01 JAN 1888      Hannover Stadt, Hannover
>> 
>> There are others listed.
>> 
>> 
>> Barbara
>> 
>> 
>> on 12/2/06 2:27 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:
>>> 
>>> I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870 -1950.
>>> How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of the
>>> person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New York,
>>> having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had an
>>> address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.
>>> From a 1901 map of Hannover (wonderfully scanned in color) the city is
>>> laid out with its various districts and streets. The index for the map
>>> lists six "Gartens" with various names. This is the link:
>>> 
>>> http://www.hicleones.com/callmap-e.php?tekst=10049&map=Hanover%2FHannover%20
>>> -%
>>> 20City
>>> 
>>> I am wondering if perhaps the Gartens were numbered by the locals and
>>> used to describe a part of the city of Hannover they lived. This is what
>>> I am working with:
>>> 
>>> *Place in Hannover*:   Hannover, Garteneg 6
>>> *Person residing there*:  Heinrich Haupt
>>> *When*:  1870 -- 1950
>>> *Daughter of Heinrich Haupt*:   Karoline Thigpen   (presumably Karoline
>>> Haupt before marriage to Thigpen)
>>> *Time Frame*:  Address of Hannover, Garteneg 6 was given on New York
>>> port entry record in 1925. Karoline stated that this was her father's
>>> address.
>>> 
>>> My objective is to find Heinrich Haupt and and his family. Heinrich
>>> Haupt's daughter, Karoline, married my cousin, William D. Thigpen around
>>> 1920-1925.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Allen Thigpen
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> 
>> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/03 05:35:33
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Allen,

     I guess Gartenweg means "way" or some such.  You can do a search on
mapquest.com and find Gartenstrasse 6 on the map of Hannover.  I asked for
Gartenweg and it referred to Gartenstrasse.  I don't know what value that
would be so many years ago.  However, maybe you could find the nearest
church and maybe the Haupt records may be there.  That may not be easy, but
it's a thought. 

Barbara


on 12/2/06 9:19 PM, R&B Stewart at raybarbara(a)comcast.net wrote:

> Hello Allen,
> 
> This is just a suggestion-- Many people named their children after
> their own parents.  Here's a Heinrich Haupt with a mother by the name of
> Carolina--close to the Karoline name you have.
> 
> HEINRICH WILHELM LUDWIG HAUPT
> 
> Birth: 
> 17 NOV 1878       Hannover, Preussen
> Christening: 
> 01 DEC 1878      Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen
> 
> Parents:
>      Father:     AUGUST LUDWIG HAUPT     Family
>      Mother:     CAROLINA HENRIETTE DORIS WEDEKIND
> 
> It really can't be proven with the information you have.  Where was Karoline
> born? 
> 
> Another thought-- since many of the Haupt names on the LDS site have 3 or 4
> names,  it could be that your Heinrich could have been anything like Johann
> Heinrich August Haupt and his records are stated with the formal name. But
> he used the name of Heinrich Haupt most often. That can be really confusing.
> 
> I'm wondering that the Garteneg 6 mentioned isn't supposed to be
> "Gartenweg".  Garten means Garden.  A Google search lists "Gartenweg" but  I
> don't know what that means either.
> 
> Not much help, am I?  I hope you can find your answers.
> 
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on 12/2/06 4:21 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:
> 
>> Hi Barbara, thank you for your reply.  Heinrich Haupt's daughter,
>> Karoline, was born in (1900 - 1901); therefore, we can assume that
>> Heinrich was most likely born between 1850 and 1882.
>> 
>> Allen Thigpen
>> 
>> R&B Stewart wrote:
>>> Hello Allen,
>>> I'm wondering if you have a date of birth for Heinrich Haupt.  The LDS
>>> have these entries for Heinrich Haupt:
>>> 
>>> Heinrich Friedrich Ferdinand Haupt
>>> Birth:     22 JAN 1862     Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen
>>> Christening:     28 MAR 1862     Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen
>>> 
>>> Heinrich Friedrich August Haupt
>>> Birth: 19 JAN 1882
>>> Christening: 05 MAR 1882      Hannover Stadt, Hannover, PreussenDeath:
>>> 
>>> Heinrich Wilhelm Gustav Haupt
>>> Birth: 30 OCT 1887
>>> Christening: 01 JAN 1888      Hannover Stadt, Hannover
>>> 
>>> There are others listed.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Barbara
>>> 
>>> 
>>> on 12/2/06 2:27 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:
>>>> 
>>>> I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870 -1950.
>>>> How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of the
>>>> person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New York,
>>>> having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had an
>>>> address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.
>>>> From a 1901 map of Hannover (wonderfully scanned in color) the city is
>>>> laid out with its various districts and streets. The index for the map
>>>> lists six "Gartens" with various names. This is the link:
>>>> 
>>>> 
http://www.hicleones.com/callmap-e.php?tekst=10049&map=Hanover%2FHannover%2>
>>> 0
>>>> -%
>>>> 20City
>>>> 
>>>> I am wondering if perhaps the Gartens were numbered by the locals and
>>>> used to describe a part of the city of Hannover they lived. This is what
>>>> I am working with:
>>>> 
>>>> *Place in Hannover*:   Hannover, Garteneg 6
>>>> *Person residing there*:  Heinrich Haupt
>>>> *When*:  1870 -- 1950
>>>> *Daughter of Heinrich Haupt*:   Karoline Thigpen   (presumably Karoline
>>>> Haupt before marriage to Thigpen)
>>>> *Time Frame*:  Address of Hannover, Garteneg 6 was given on New York
>>>> port entry record in 1925. Karoline stated that this was her father's
>>>> address.
>>>> 
>>>> My objective is to find Heinrich Haupt and and his family. Heinrich
>>>> Haupt's daughter, Karoline, married my cousin, William D. Thigpen around
>>>> 1920-1925.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Allen Thigpen
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/03 05:38:21
From: Allen T. <athn(a)alltel.net>

Thanks again Barbara,

You are a help! I appreciate your efforts; I have learned that it is vital to network to solve some riddles. A translation on "Garteweg" yielded and English rendering of "Garden Way", so I think we may have possibly solved part of the address conundrum. I used the Google translator at: http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en I find this translator site works better than most for individual words as well as phrases.

The search you did on Heinrich Haupt may prove promising as well. How would you go about tracing his down line? The current phone directory for Hannover lists a Karoline Haupt--I stopped short of calling today, mainly because I do not speak German and also because I need more information.

Have any of you ever contacted the local library or any of the other local resources in Hannover?

Regards,
Allen Thigpen

R&B Stewart wrote:
Hello Allen,

      This is just a suggestion-- Many people named their children after
their own parents.  Here's a Heinrich Haupt with a mother by the name of
Carolina--close to the Karoline name you have.

 HEINRICH WILHELM LUDWIG HAUPT

Birth: 17 NOV 1878 Hannover, Preussen Christening: 01 DEC 1878 Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen

Parents:
     Father:     AUGUST LUDWIG HAUPT     Family
     Mother:     CAROLINA HENRIETTE DORIS WEDEKIND

It really can't be proven with the information you have.  Where was Karoline
born?
Another thought-- since many of the Haupt names on the LDS site have 3 or 4
names,  it could be that your Heinrich could have been anything like Johann
Heinrich August Haupt and his records are stated with the formal name. But
he used the name of Heinrich Haupt most often. That can be really confusing.

I'm wondering that the Garteneg 6 mentioned isn't supposed to be
"Gartenweg".  Garten means Garden.  A Google search lists "Gartenweg" but  I
don't know what that means either.

Not much help, am I?  I hope you can find your answers.

Barbara










on 12/2/06 4:21 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:

Hi Barbara, thank you for your reply.  Heinrich Haupt's daughter,
Karoline, was born in (1900 - 1901); therefore, we can assume that
Heinrich was most likely born between 1850 and 1882.

Allen Thigpen

R&B Stewart wrote:
Hello Allen,
I'm wondering if you have a date of birth for Heinrich Haupt.  The LDS
have these entries for Heinrich Haupt:

Heinrich Friedrich Ferdinand Haupt
Birth:     22 JAN 1862     Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen
Christening:     28 MAR 1862     Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen

Heinrich Friedrich August Haupt
Birth: 19 JAN 1882
Christening: 05 MAR 1882      Hannover Stadt, Hannover, PreussenDeath:

Heinrich Wilhelm Gustav Haupt
Birth: 30 OCT 1887
Christening: 01 JAN 1888      Hannover Stadt, Hannover

There are others listed.


Barbara


on 12/2/06 2:27 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:


Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:

I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870 -1950.
How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of the
person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New York,
having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had an
address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.
From a 1901 map of Hannover (wonderfully scanned in color) the city is
laid out with its various districts and streets. The index for the map
lists six "Gartens" with various names. This is the link:

http://www.hicleones.com/callmap-e.php?tekst=10049&map=Hanover%2FHannover%20
-%
20City

I am wondering if perhaps the Gartens were numbered by the locals and
used to describe a part of the city of Hannover they lived. This is what
I am working with:

*Place in Hannover*:   Hannover, Garteneg 6
*Person residing there*:  Heinrich Haupt
*When*:  1870 -- 1950
*Daughter of Heinrich Haupt*:   Karoline Thigpen   (presumably Karoline
Haupt before marriage to Thigpen)
*Time Frame*:  Address of Hannover, Garteneg 6 was given on New York
port entry record in 1925. Karoline stated that this was her father's
address.

My objective is to find Heinrich Haupt and and his family. Heinrich
Haupt's daughter, Karoline, married my cousin, William D. Thigpen around
1920-1925.

Best regards,
Allen Thigpen
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


______________________________________________

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Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

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[HN] Gartenweg 6

Date: 2006/12/03 05:42:44
From: Allen T. <athn(a)alltel.net>

I believe the term "Gartenweg 6" is an address in Hannover. Have any of you come across any terms like this or similar to this in referring to a place or address in Hannover? The English translation in "Garden Way"

Best regards,
Allen Thigpen

[HN] Gardens of Hannover

Date: 2006/12/03 06:07:20
From: JANE E SWAN <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>

Hi Allen:  
Most of the "gardens" on your map are part of the Herrenhausen Gartens, a huge royal park outside of the city.  I, too, believe that you mean Gartenweg, which means Garden Way, suggesting that it is a tiny street probably too small to be shown on the map.  More like a Lane in English.   Jane

JANE E SWAN
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

Re: [HN] Address help

Date: 2006/12/03 07:21:20
From: Will J van Dreven-Lieuwes <vandreve(a)iafrica.com>

Kirchenkreisamt Uelzen
Taubenstr. 1
D 29525 Uelzen
Germany




-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]On Behalf Of DSore10588(a)aol.com
Sent: 03 December 2006 05:00
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Address help


Could someone please tell me the correct format (what goes on each line)
for
addressing the envelope to send a letter to this address?

, , - Germany

And, could you also tell me who I am writing to?  How should I address  the
letter?

Thank you.

Janet


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Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
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Re: [HN] Address help

Date: 2006/12/03 07:22:39
From: Will J van Dreven-Lieuwes <vandreve(a)iafrica.com>

Kirch=church
so i think it is the Church office of Uelzen

Willemine
SOuth africa


-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]On Behalf Of DSore10588(a)aol.com
Sent: 03 December 2006 05:00
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Address help


Could someone please tell me the correct format (what goes on each line)
for
addressing the envelope to send a letter to this address?

Kirchenkreisamt Uelzen, Taubenstr. 1, D 29525 Uelzen- Germany

And, could you also tell me who I am writing to?  How should I address  the
letter?

Thank you.

Janet


______________________________________________

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Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] AIDA und dass SUCHEN - Aida and the Search - HARZFELD

Date: 2006/12/03 07:46:03
From: Will J van Dreven-Lieuwes <vandreve(a)iafrica.com>


-From Stolzenau in the HANNOVER area, came a forefather named WILHELM
HARZFELD(t)
probably born in about 1741 and went to the Netherlands

Aida does not give me any names - or further information!

Has anybody ever came accross the name Von Harzfeldt or Harzfeld ?

Elisabeth von (de) Harzfeld * ca 1450

Joannes Henricus Harzfeld *10 Mai 1711 baptized Sankt Lambertus Katholisch,
Duesseldorf Stadt, Rheinland, Preussen

Ferdinandus (de)(von) Harzfeld * ca 1790 Wiedenbruck Germany

Also the name Harzfeld is found in quite an extended Jewish family ca 1818
in Westfalen Prussia.(most emigrated to the USA)

Ida (die Heilige) von Herzfeld  * 749 she married:Egbert von Sachsen
herfather = Karlmann Koning van Franken - mother is Gerberga Koningin van
Franken

Please can anybody help??
Thank you very much
Willemine (speaks German too)


Re: [HN] Gartenweg 6

Date: 2006/12/03 09:23:20
From: Albert Emmerich <Emmerich.Albert(a)t-online.de>

Gartenweg is a little street in southern part of the city of Hannover.
See Google map, link: 
http://maps.google.de/maps?near=Hannover&q=Gartenweg&f=l&hl=de&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=52.324849,9.725647&spn=0.01857,0.039911&om=1

Albert (Emmerich)
Cremlingen, Lower Saxony, Germany

 "Allen T." <mailto:athn(a)alltel.net> schrieb:
> I believe the term "Gartenweg 6" is an address in Hannover. Have any of 
> you come across any terms like this or similar to this in referring to a 
> place or address in Hannover? The English translation in "Garden Way"
> 
> Best regards,
> Allen Thigpen
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> mailto:Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 


Re: [HN] HATTORF-OSTERODE

Date: 2006/12/03 11:25:04
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Hi Cord
 
Vielen Dank für die Mail, jetzt bin ich erstmal etwas ratlos und  erschlagen. 
Sind das nun echte von Hattorf oder wie sie sich früher geschrieben  haben 
von Hattorp oder de Hattorpe oder sind das welche die sich Osterode  genannt 
haben und den Zusatz von Hattorf tragen, weil sie von dort gekommen  sind?
 
Ich habe die Mail zu meinen Daten abgespeichert, ich brauche hier sicher  
noch mehr Puzzleteile um diesen alten Rittern von Hattorf auf die Schliche zu  
kommen, die Forschungen sind recht schwierig.
 
Aber einen Berthold von Hattorf hat es tatsächlich gegeben ein Knappe. Das  
Dumme an der ganzen Geschichte ist nur: Es gab dereinst 3 Hattorf in  
Deutschland. Eins in der Nähe von Osterode daß hieß genau wie die alten Ritter  erst 
Hattorp, Hattorff heute Hattorf, dann gibt es eins in der Nähe von  Wolfsburg 
und es gab bis 1130 eins in der Nähe von Soest das heißt heute  allerdings 
Hattrop, wurde umbenannt.
 
Im 13. Jahrhundert habe ich 5 von Hattorp (Hattorpe) Familien. Davon sind  
allerdings 4 miteinander verwandt, die in Soest, Lübeck, Reval und Riga, wäre  
also komisch, wenn ausgerechnet Ecbert von Hattorp, der 40 Jahre älter ist als  
die anderen nicht dazugehören würde.
 
Viele Grüße Armin

[HN] Holzerode/Harz. Carl Isenhut

Date: 2006/12/03 11:45:37
From: Jurgen Schwiening <schwiening(a)tesco.net>

Liebe Familienforscher,

 

Ich hätte gern gewusst, ob sich jemand für die Geschichte des Dorfes
Holzerode am Harz und die dortige Schule interessiert oder sogar erforscht.
Mein Interesse daran ist folgendes: Der Onkel meines Grossvaters war dort um
1890 herum Lehrer. Sein Name war Carl Isenhut. Ich habe einige Erinnerungen
meines Grossvaters Otto Becker, der dort bis etwa 1895 im Schulhaus wohnte
und in die Schule ging.

 

Jürgen Schwiening, Market Bosworth, England

 


Re: [HN] Hanoverian soldiers

Date: 2006/12/03 11:49:16
From: Joannah Sharratt <joannah(a)sharratt594.fsnet.co.uk>

Terry,
Great news. Thank you so much. Look forward to hearing from you in the New Year. Have a good Christmas! ----- Original Message ----- From: "terry white" <terryak.white(a)virgin.net>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 10:27 PM
Subject: [HN] Hanoverian soldiers


29.11.06

Dear Joannah, and all who are interested in King's German Legion,

I can look up Hanoverian soldiers in the Kew Record Office for 1812,
when I go down next.
There is one book on the library shelf that is a compiled  list.
It will give me something to do whilst waiting the half-hour for ordered
documents to arrive.

I do not know yet when I may be able to do this.
It may now have to wait until after Christmas.
I live in South England, and the railway service is notorious at  this
time of year,
especially at weekends, which is the  most likely time when I can go.

Terry


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http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l





[HN] FEHRMANN, Adolf

Date: 2006/12/03 11:54:13
From: Bernd H . Siebert <berndhsiebert(a)t-online.de>

Liebe Liste!

Ich habe einen Toten-Gedenkzettel gefunden zu

Adolf Fehrmann, *14.5.1893 Hannover,
+7.5.1967  Hannover.

Gedruckt wurde der Zettel bei Otto Hartmann, Hannover.

Meines Erachtens handelt es sich bei der Sitte, Toten-Gedenkzettel herzustellen und an die Teilnehmer der Totenmesse zu verteilen, um einen katholischen Brauch.

Wer weiß Näheres zu dem genannten und, für mich besonders interessant: Welche Beziehung hatte er nach Bernshausen?

Gruß
Bernd (Siebert)
Ortsheimatpfleger Bernshausen
Oberdorfstr. 4
37136 Seeburg

Re: [HN] Johann August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL (Walter)

Date: 2006/12/03 12:19:11
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

 
In einer eMail vom 03.12.2006 05:23:57 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt  
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

One  wonders if Johann August Hattorf could be an illegitimate son of one 
of  the  Hattorf families mentioned above. In the Ortsfamilienbuch there  
is no evidence of that.




Hi Walter
 
:-)))))))) That was my idea too. And i think i have a certain proof that it  
could be so. I found this at ancestry.com
 
 _New York Petitions for Naturalization_ 
(http://www.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=7733&enc=1) . Frederick A Vn  hattore.
 
Indeed the picture is bright and clear visible the name  is Frederick A. von 
Hattorf there is no daubt and there was only one Frederick A  living in NY in 
those years ..... the son of Johann August Hattorff. But why did  he say his 
name is von Hattorf? 
 
The first one in Uslar Hattorf, Johann Philipp,  Erbherr, Oberfaktor was 
nobled with his 2 brothers in the year 1733 but he had  children before! And this 
is the one who is under strong suspicion to be my  ancestor too! 
 
He married 1721 in Wernigerode/Harz one year before my  ancestor Johann 
Friedrich was born. And he got money from the Duke of  Wernigerode for "his work". 
And later that little Johann Friedrich who is my  ancestor was getting a job 
from the Duke of Wernigerode and stayed till the end  of his life there.
 

The fact that Johann Philip v. Hattorff was  "Eisenfaktor" means he had to 
cut wood in the forests around Wernigerode (at  this time he was not nobled he 
was only Johann Philip Hattorff) and his wife was  with him, so it may be my 
ancestor is born in a lonely blockhouse in the forest  and might have the same 
fate as Johann August, cause this is the second i cant  find. And i don't 
think, that in those days families had only one  son.
 
Armin
 
 

[HN] Johann August Hattorf(f) Sergeant in the KGL

Date: 2006/12/03 12:30:55
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

We have confusion between the birth place and army record in England also. I have 3 Flemme brothers born in 'Drypool' in late 1800's but their army record states 'Hull' another official record states they are from "Sculcoates". All three place names are the same area but are known by different names for the church parish, the civic parish and the larger historical place name.

Illigitimacy of August Hattorff could be the answer - I have baptisms of 2 illigitimate children but they can be seen on the Salzgitter census in their maternal grandparents home using their father's surname even though the father was not yet married to the mother.

<< The Ortsfamilienbuch Uslar was recently published. There is no Johann
August Hattorf mentioned but there are some von Hattorfs listed.>>

The only reason the von Hattorf(f)s are in the Uslar book is because they married in the church (which was probably the parish of the bride) or died in that parish. If August Hattorf did not marry in Uslar he would not be in the Uslar church book. I think Uslar must be the large dioces? and he was baptised in a smaller parish church near the birth such as Osterode. I have noticed in my German, English and Scottish research many first births (and some difficult births) were in the homes of maternal grandparents - maybe the birth of August Hattorf was such a one.

1804 : This is the time of the rule of Frenchman Jerome Napoleon who re-organised everything. Who is to say if some church and civic records were destroyed in the war.

Rena
==
From: Walter Bitterberg <walter(a)bitterberg-bonn.de>
AJHattorf(a)aol.com schrieb:
Dear Listies
 We had spoken about Johann August Hattorff this year. < snip>
In  his files in England they say he is born in "Schoningen".

Hann 48 a I Nr. 123 Stammrolle des Regiments 1804  ? 1808
Pag. 12
Register of Men , First  Troop
No.                  No. 4
Rank                Serg.
Name               August Hattorf
Age                  25
Size                  feet 5, inches 9
where born
country            Hannover
town                Uslar
trade                -
In...                  March 20 1804
No. of years            7
Bounty money
received            4 pounds 6 ...
description
eyes                 blue
hair                  black
complex.            fair
service
...                     Hann.
regiment            8th reg. of cavalry
no. of years            7
remarks            -
So after this files he should be born in Uslar,  what is not far away from
Schoningen, once again i send someone to check the churchbooks to find the
birth of Johann August Hattorf.

The Ortsfamilienbuch Uslar was recently published. There is no Johann
August Hattorf mentioned but there are some von Hattorfs listed.

=4983= Hattorf, Johann Philipp, Erbherr, Oberfaktor
~ 26.3.1676 in Osterode St. Marien
+ 1.12.1741 in Uslar
buried 3.2.1741 in  Schoningen

=4984= Hattorf, von, Friedrich Martin  Oberamtmann in Uslar
* 25.2.1681 Osterode +9.5. 1740 in Uslar buried 11.5.1740 in Schoningen

=4985 = Hattorf, von Georg Just Ludolph Erbherr auf Uslar, Schoningen
und Verliehausen
* 17.7.1784 Gut Wied/Dannenberg +23.8. 1853 in Uslar/ Papiermühle

=4987= Hattorf, von  Johann Ernst Commissions-Rath * um 1707 + 7.9.1754
Uslar

=4988= Hattorf, von Just Friedrich *17.5.1708 in Elbingerrode +
28.12.1766 in Uslar

One wonders if Johann August Hattorf could be an illegitimate son of one
of the  Hattorf families mentioned above. In the Ortsfamilienbuch there
is no evidence of that.

The Ortsfamilienbuch was edited by Klaus Kunze, Fürstenberg. I believe
he is a subscriber of this list.

Best Regards
Walter Bitterberg


[HN] was bedeutet OHEIM

Date: 2006/12/03 13:50:07
From: thorsten <t.minse(a)t-online.de>

Hallo und Moin Moin

schnell einmal eine Frage .... 
was ist ein Oheim ????

schon einmal lieben dank für die antworten.

lieben gruß
thorsten

Re: [HN] Address help - who's address in Uelzen?

Date: 2006/12/03 15:33:58
From: LadyBonita (USA) <ladybonita(a)usa.com>

What is the address to (since my ancestors HILMER / HILLMER) came from the
Uelzen area?

-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Will J van
Dreven-Lieuwes
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:21 PM
To: Hannover-L
Subject: Re: [HN] Address help

Kirchenkreisamt Uelzen
Taubenstr. 1
D 29525 Uelzen
Germany



[HN] LUDEWIG: Dr. Winde

Date: 2006/12/03 17:36:36
From: Reinhard J. Freytag <Reinhard.Freytag(a)t-online.de>

Mit LUDEWIG Südhannover kann ich evtl. helfen,
Bitte deutsch oder englisch.
 
___________________________________________________
In der Genealogie ist ein Schritt rückwärts
ein Schritt vorwärts

Schöne Grüsse aus unserer
Universitätsstadt Göttingen
Reinhard J. Freytag
genealogie(a)freytag-immo.de


-----Original Message-----
> Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:13:13 +0100
> Subject: [HN] LUDEWIG
> From: Drwinde(a)aol.com
> To: mariekarine(a)msn.com

> Bonjour,
> est-ce-que vous avez une idée, d'où votre agp venait? Et
son prénom?
> J'ai assez des LUDEWIGs comme ancetres. Ils venaient tous
de la région
> Sud-Hanovre.
> En cas d'interet: contactez moi.
> Salut!
> Dr.med. Cord Winde
> Bremen / Deutschland
> e.mail: drwinde(a)aol.com
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 




Re: [HN] Hattorffs in the KGL

Date: 2006/12/03 18:37:07
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hallo Armin,

You said:-
<<His name was Georg Heinrich von Hattorff he was one of the
nobled line of our family. He was fighting at Salamancar and Waterloo
against Napoleon. He was a captain or in those days they called him "Rittmeister"
what is the same like Captain.>>

It is evident G.H. Von Hattorff (or his father) bought a commission (paid
money to be an army officer).  He would have bought his own horses and
uniform and sword.  He will probably not have been the oldest son and
therefore would not inherit any land - an army career would have allowed him
to mingle in the upper classes of society and gain a rich bride :-)

<<The secret is why did Johann August disband in 1824 most of his comrads
are disbandes in about 1816 after Waterloo. >>

This man was not a commissioned officer - he belonged to the 'other ranks'.
He may have been 'conscripted' by the army for 2 years and signed on for
another 10 years.  Or, if there was no work in his homeland, he may have
chosen an army career and signed on as a 'regular soldier' for 5, 10 or 15
years.   He did very well to rise up in the ranks from private, to corporal
to sergeant -maybe he got his promotion stripes during battle.  The other
men who went home in 1816 were mostly low rank privates and they would not
be paid much money.  We have to ask ourselves if he was a well paid
craftsman in civilian life or did he earn more money as a sergeant in the
army.

<<But with your help i have now the adresses of  the
curches in Uxbridge. I am sure that Frederick August is born there. The
first born children of Johann August were born in England the next two in
Germany.
The secret is why did Johann August disband in 1824 most of his comrads  are
disbandes in about 1816 after Waterloo. >>

Have you visited this 'rootschat' website?  On the 'Middlesex' page there
are some "Resources" which you can look through.
When you have seen them maybe somebody on this "Middlesex Look Up REQUESTS"
board can help you?  Go to the bottom of this page, click on "NEW TOPICS"
and make your request:-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,25.0.html
==
<<And i wonder why i could find Johann August in the LDS files but not his
son Frederick A.>>

There are many reasons:  maybe the Middlesex/London church records did not
survive the English weather, or were destroyed in WWI or WWII or the family
moved to another English, French, German barracks (another army base) - you
recall I found the other Captain Hattorf in other parts of England.  If the
two Hattorfs were in the same battalion F.A. Hattorf may have been baptised
in another county. This means you have to look in Buckinghamshire or
Cambridgeshire for the baptism. This will be difficult if the names have incorrect spellings.

Not all births, marriages, deaths are on film - sometimes the only place to find families is to ask for help from a "Family History Society" (FHS).
==
This is a free website http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ and this is the only name I found but it it is in the county of Wiltshire, north of Middlesex county.

Surname First name(s)  District    Vol/ Page
Births:   Sep 1864
HATTOR Walter          Cricklade 5a/25
==
Good wishes,
Rena
==
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 19:09:05 EST
Hi Rena
Wow nice to hear from you, you have a lot of informations for me. Yes  i
always new that their was a second Hattorff serving in the KGL. Even his
name  is not in the list.
Was it his father in law who would like to see him longer in Great Britain?
Maybe Mr. Brookes was in the army too.
Usually their should be files at the LDS church.
Thank you so much for your assitance.
Armin AJHattorf(a)aol.com


[HN] Occupations

Date: 2006/12/03 19:30:55
From: Donna Allen <dballen(a)triconet.org>

My sincere thanks to Herr Emmerich and to Paul Scheele for their help.  I was able to order the Genealogical Dictionary from Amazon.com.

Herr Emmerich's explanations also suggested that the reason my ancestors moved from Hebenbrock in the 1600's and early 1700's to Harber was the marriage of one man to a female who owned land in the town.  From that time on they are found in Harber.  Now it would be nice to learn if the village of Hebenbrock gave my ancestors their surname or if the village was named for them.

Thanks again for the help.

Donna Allen

Re: [HN] History of Hannover , professions and translation

Date: 2006/12/03 20:12:46
From: Klaus Riecken <klaus(a)riecken-online.de>

Liebe Listenleser,

once I found for professions and translation
ich fand einmal für Berufe und Übersetzung
http://www.tranquility.net/~pwrigh01/occupations.html

Regards
Klaus (Riecken)
www.Riecken-online.de


----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Scheele" <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>
To: "'Hannover-L'" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] History of Hannover and need help with occupations


Regarding Donna Allen's questions about professions. Herr Emmerich did a
great job explaining the professions meanings. The explanation of a
Dienstknecht was missing however. I believe a Dienstknecht was generally a
servant boy or man.

I would recommend that Donna try to purchase the "German - English
Genealogical Dictionary" by Ernest Thode. He gives translations for most of
the terms you might find doing german genealogical research. I think it is
usually available at Amazon or Barnes & Noble.

Paul Scheele

-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Albert Emmerich
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:08 AM
To: Hannover-L
Subject: Re: [HN] History of Hannover and need help with occupations

Hi Donna,
let me try to explain the professions you are looking for:

Häusler: owns a small house, but no or very little land. So he had to work
in another profession (mostly day laborer, craftsman or herdsman)

Häusling: does not own any hause or land, lives on a farm and works on
that farm. They were free people: no contract with the owner of the farm.

Einheirat: Heirat = marriage, Einheirat means that somebody marries into a
family. In your case the man became landlord (Hauswirt) by marrying the
landlady.

Hofbesitzer: Proprietor of a farm

Kirchenjurat: This is not really a profession, a Kirchenjurat does the
administration for the possession of a church, appointed for a certain
time as three years. They have a main "normal" profession beside this job.


Älm, Heber, and Hebenbrock are names of villages.


As I am German, I cannot give the exact translation into English, but I
hope, the explanations will help.


Albert (Emmerich)
Cremlingen, Lower Saxony, Germany



 "Donna Allen" <mailto:dballen(a)triconet.org> schrieb:
> Thanks, Don Roddy, for posting the information on how to get the history
of Hannover.  I enjoyed reading it.
>
> I have a few occupations listed for which I cannot find the translation.
Can anyone help, please?
>
> Dienstknecht/Hausler zu Alm (umlaud over the a, but my keyboard won't
put it     into a message though I can use it in a Word Perfect document).
> Hausling in Harber (umlaud over the a in Hausling)
> Hauswirt zu Harber (Einheirat) - My dictionary says Hauswirt is
landlord, so I         assume landlord in Harber, but was is Einheirat?
> Hofbesitzer in Hebenbrock 1729
> Kirchenjurat = church jury - but what did this person do?
>
> Thanks for any help!
>
> Donna Allen
> Tucson, AZ
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> mailto:Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
______________________________________________

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Re: [HN] Hattorffs in the KGL (Rena)

Date: 2006/12/03 20:46:24
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

 
In einer eMail vom 03.12.2006 20:14:17 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt  
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

Hattorffs in the KGL


My god Rena where did you find all those informations? You were right Georg  
Heinrich v. Hattorf(f) was the 3rd born son of Franz Ludwig Georg v. Hattorff. 
I  didnt find the link so he has paid for his uniform. Thats life some fight 
and  get only the rank of an Sergeant Major and others pay and finally this 
Georg v.  H. ended as Generalmajor in the hannoveran army. Looks like only a 
title makes  not a noble man, he was married with his cousin Louise Dorothea v. 
Hattorf. In  my eyes he is a little ..... i wrote the story of Salamancar how 
they  slaugthered the french infantry.
 
Johann August had a good job after his army career he was a kind of  
administrator in a horse stud in Memsen/Hoya were the famous hanoveran horses  came 
from. And this job was surely important, cause i think those horses have  been 
important for the cavallery in those days. Not only the german the english  too.
 
Ok i will try out tomorrow those links i was not very successful, i will  try 
it again.
 
My best to you and thank you
 
Armin

Re: [HN] was bedeutet OHEIM

Date: 2006/12/03 21:16:13
From: Andrea Korbanka <akorbanka(a)hotmail.com>

Hallo Thorsten,
das ist ein Onkel,
Gruß, Andrea (Korbanka)


From: "thorsten" <t.minse(a)t-online.de>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>,"Famnord" <famnord(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] was bedeutet OHEIM
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 13:57:39 +0100

Hallo und Moin Moin

schnell einmal eine Frage ....
was ist ein Oheim ????

schon einmal lieben dank für die antworten.

lieben gruß
thorsten
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[HN] Berufe

Date: 2006/12/03 22:13:29
From: Jurgen Schwiening <schwiening(a)tesco.net>

Eine kurze Bemerkung zu ‘Beruf’. Beruf im allgemeinen ist ‚occupation’.
Profession ist der Beruf, der gewöhnlich eine höhere, besonders eine
akademische Ausbildung erfordert, wie z.B. bei Ärzten, Rechtsanwälten oder
Lehrern.

Auf Formularen erscheint im Englischen das Wort occupation. In England wird
übrigens nach occupation nicht so oft gefragt wie nach Beruf in Deutschland.


Jürgen Schwiening, England


[HN] Ohlrogge

Date: 2006/12/03 22:39:50
From: Marina Schlobohm <marinaschlobohm(a)yahoo.de>

Hello,
   
  I am looking for information about Johann Louis Ohlrogge * 26.10.1839 and Wilhelmine Ahlvers * 21.05.1849, who emigrated to America. Their Children are: Hermann Hinrich * 07.09.1867, Johanna * 21.02.1869, Heinrich Christian Louis * 24.03.1871 and Meta * 20.07.1874.
   
  Can anyone help me?
   
  Thanks
   
  Marina (Schlobohm)

 		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger -  kostenlos* mit Familie und Freunden von PC zu PC telefonieren. 

[HN] Neustadt-Goedens

Date: 2006/12/03 23:40:43
From: Robert Coley <rcoley001(a)triad.rr.com>

Re: akorbanka(a)hotmail.com
Mein Urgrossvater und Urgrossmutter lebten in Neustadt Goedens. Die Urgrossmutter ist in Tichelboe Amt Wittmund geboren. Wo kann ich diese Daten nach sehen?
Vielen Dank. Katrin 


Re: [HN] Ohlrogge

Date: 2006/12/04 00:07:59
From: Paul Scheele <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>

Hi Marina Schlobohm,

The following information was gleaned from the Kirchenbuch's of
Trupe-Lilienthal and Worpswede:

Johann Louis *26.10.1839 in Worpsweder Moor married Wilhelnine Ahlvers
*21.05.1849 on 09.08.1867 at the church in Lilienthal. They lived in Trupe
where the the following children were born:
	Hermann Hinrich *07.09.1867
	Johanna *21.02.1869
They then moved to Osterwede where the following children were born:
	Heinrich Christian Louis *24.03.1871
	Meta *20.07.1874

My reference books have much more on the ancestors of this pair. If you
contact me directly at pfsco1(a)comcast.net I can send attachments of scans
from these books. However, perhaps you are only looking for information
after they emigrated. I have nothing about that.

Paul Scheele

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
> bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Marina Schlobohm
> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 2:39 PM
> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> Subject: [HN] Ohlrogge
> 
> Hello,
> 
>   I am looking for information about Johann Louis Ohlrogge * 26.10.1839
> and Wilhelmine Ahlvers * 21.05.1849, who emigrated to America. Their
> Children are: Hermann Hinrich * 07.09.1867, Johanna * 21.02.1869, Heinrich
> Christian Louis * 24.03.1871 and Meta * 20.07.1874.
> 
>   Can anyone help me?
> 
>   Thanks
> 
>   Marina (Schlobohm)
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger -  kostenlos* mit Familie und Freunden von PC zu PC
> telefonieren.
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Buch "Höfe- und Familiengeschichte" Ste mmen im Landkreis Rotenburg/ Wümme

Date: 2006/12/04 08:59:53
From: guenter . bassen <guenter.bassen(a)arcor.de>

Liebe Listenmitglieder, 

am gestrigen Sonntag wurde in Stemmen das oben genannte Buch präsentiert.

Dieses 600 Seiten umfassende Werk wurde vom Heimatverein Stemmen und Jürgen Hoops (Familien- und Höfeforscher aus Scheeßel) geschrieben.

Wie der Titel schon ausdrückt, ist es keine Chronik von dem Ort, sondern sehr umfassend die Familien und Höfe umschrieben.

In über 350 Seiten wurden sehr ausführlich die Familien der 105 Höfe beschrieben. Wer also Vorfahren in Stemmen hat, wird sie in diesem Buch wiederfinden.

Ein weiteres Thema ist eine statistische Darstellung von Dr. Wolfgang Dörfler über die Todesursachen und Bevölkerungsentwicklung.

Wer Interesse hat möge sich bei mir DIREKT melden. Bestellungen (das Buch kostet 48€) leite ich an den "Chef" des Heimatvereins Adolf Braasch weiter.

Viele Grüße     Günter (Bassen)



Günter Bassen
Westend 6
27419 Klein Meckelsen

Suche in ganz Deutschland:  Bassen, Jagels
Suche in Windershusen (Ksp. Selsingen): Meyer
Suche in Lerbach bei Osterode am Harz:  Oppermann

Klein Meckelsen: 2001 Bundessieger "Unser Dorf soll schöner werden"
http://www.klein-meckelsen.de/


Viel oder wenig? Schnell oder langsam? Unbegrenzt surfen + telefonieren
ohne Zeit- und Volumenbegrenzung? DAS TOP ANGEBOT JETZT bei Arcor: günstig
und schnell mit DSL - das All-Inclusive-Paket für clevere Doppel-Sparer,
nur  44,85 €  inkl. DSL- und ISDN-Grundgebühr!
http://www.arcor.de/rd/emf-dsl-2

Re: [HN] Ohlrogge

Date: 2006/12/04 14:08:06
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Hi Martina
 
What are you looking for? Do you search that family in the USA?
 
That could be difficult i have just been taking a look into the shiplist no  
Johann Louis, no Wilhelmine a lot of Ohlrogges in the US Census.
 
The only name that could be correct is a certain Meta Ohlrogge coming 1891  
together with a certain Johanna Ohlrogge to the States. Johann is still US  
citicen and Meta is from Germany. The date of birth for Meta would be correct  
with 1874 but Johannas year of birth is 1872 instead of 1869 but both are  
together in the list.
 
Armin

Re: [HN] Hattorffs in the KGL (Rena)

Date: 2006/12/04 15:04:17
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi Armin,

It is unfortunate many URL websites are very busy in the winter which will make it difficult for you. Some of my links showed the page on the website - if the links are too long - maybe you should erase the page detail and only put the main URL 'home' page in your browser address (this is what I do).

Maybe cousin Dorothea Louise was from the rich side of the family?  :-))

<<Johann August had a good job after his army career he was a kind of
administrator in a horse stud in Memsen/Hoya were the famous hanoveran horses came from. And this job was surely important, cause i think those horses have been important for the cavallery in those days. Not only the german the english too.>>

You are correct - horses were very important in the army. All Dragoon Guards and Infantry had a "Farrier" who was what we now call a 'vetinary surgeon' (animal doctor). Army uniforms were red or blue, but the Farrier always wore a black uniform and he had a special large axe with a long handle to kill horses injured in battle (I forget the name of the axe). I think your army Sergeant must have been very knowledgeable to obtain work on such a famous stud farm.

<<i think those horses have been important for the cavallery in those days. Not only the german the english too>>

This reminds me of the Belgian Horse Cavalry who took out their swords and galloped headlong towards their enemy - unfortunately for them their enemy were sitting in tanks!

Rena in England
=
In einer eMail vom 03.12.2006 20:14:17 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

Hattorffs in the KGL


My god Rena where did you find all those informations? You were right Georg
Heinrich v. Hattorf(f) was the 3rd born son of Franz Ludwig Georg v. Hattorff.

I  didnt find the link so he has paid for his uniform. Thats life some fight
and  get only the rank of an Sergeant Major and others pay and finally this
Georg v.  H. ended as Generalmajor in the hannoveran army. Looks like only a
title makes not a noble man, he was married with his cousin Louise Dorothea v. Hattorf. In my eyes he is a little ..... i wrote the story of Salamancar how
they  slaugthered the french infantry.

Ok i will try out tomorrow those links i was not very successful, i will try
it again.

My best to you and thank you
Armin


Re: [HN] Husband Taking Wife's Surname

Date: 2006/12/04 18:29:15
From: bobbidoll <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>

 
Hi Maureen,In Sachen-Anhalt, I have a family Thier is the father's surname, Thieren is the daughter's.Bobbi

_______________________________________________
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Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/04 19:18:12
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Allen,

       It's not clear to me--did Karoline emigrate with her husband or
alone.  When?

       Your search is a difficult one since your family was in a large city.
Somehow you need to find Karoline's birth. It is not listed in the LDS (IGI)
where the other Haupts are, maybe because it is later than the others.  It
is very hard to trace a family line to later times.  We usually go
backwards!  

    Are you anywhere near a LDS center?  That is where you can get a great
many records from Hannover Stadt.  You order films and then read them at
the center.  There are so many churches in the city of Hannover.  There is a
set of indexes to the churches there--several films.  They are done by
surname.  There are 138 films just for the index!  You could look at the two
films that include the name Haupt. Of course, it is always possible that
your Karoline won't be listed there at all. People simply were not as
religious in 1900 than decades earlier.

   If you need help as to how to find the films, let me know.

Barbara



on 12/2/06 9:38 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:

> Thanks again Barbara,
> 
> You are a help!  I appreciate your efforts; I have learned that it is
> vital to network to solve some riddles. A translation on "Garteweg"
> yielded and English rendering of "Garden Way", so I think we may have
> possibly solved part of the address conundrum.  I used the Google
> translator at:   http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en   I find
> this translator site works better than most for individual words as well
> as phrases.
> 
> The search you did on Heinrich Haupt may prove promising as well. How
> would you go about tracing his down line?  The current phone directory
> for Hannover lists a Karoline Haupt--I stopped short of calling today,
> mainly because I do not speak German and also because I need more
> information.
> 
> Have any of you ever contacted the local library or any of the other
> local resources in Hannover?
> 
> Regards,
> Allen Thigpen
> 
> R&B Stewart wrote:
>> Hello Allen,
>> 
>> This is just a suggestion-- Many people named their children after
>> their own parents.  Here's a Heinrich Haupt with a mother by the name of
>> Carolina--close to the Karoline name you have.
>> 
>> HEINRICH WILHELM LUDWIG HAUPT
>> 
>> Birth: 
>> 17 NOV 1878       Hannover, Preussen
>> Christening: 
>> 01 DEC 1878      Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen
>> 
>> Parents:
>> Father:     AUGUST LUDWIG HAUPT     Family
>> Mother:     CAROLINA HENRIETTE DORIS WEDEKIND
>> 
>> It really can't be proven with the information you have.  Where was Karoline
>> born? 
>> 
>> Another thought-- since many of the Haupt names on the LDS site have 3 or 4
>> names,  it could be that your Heinrich could have been anything like Johann
>> Heinrich August Haupt and his records are stated with the formal name. But
>> he used the name of Heinrich Haupt most often. That can be really confusing.
>> 
>> I'm wondering that the Garteneg 6 mentioned isn't supposed to be
>> "Gartenweg".  Garten means Garden.  A Google search lists "Gartenweg" but  I
>> don't know what that means either.
>> 
>> Not much help, am I?  I hope you can find your answers.
>> 
>> Barbara
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> on 12/2/06 4:21 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi Barbara, thank you for your reply.  Heinrich Haupt's daughter,
>>> Karoline, was born in (1900 - 1901); therefore, we can assume that
>>> Heinrich was most likely born between 1850 and 1882.
>>> 
>>> Allen Thigpen
>>> 
>>> R&B Stewart wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hello Allen,
>>>> I'm wondering if you have a date of birth for Heinrich Haupt.  The LDS
>>>> have these entries for Heinrich Haupt:
>>>> 
>>>> Heinrich Friedrich Ferdinand Haupt
>>>> Birth:     22 JAN 1862     Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen
>>>> Christening:     28 MAR 1862     Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen
>>>> 
>>>> Heinrich Friedrich August Haupt
>>>> Birth: 19 JAN 1882
>>>> Christening: 05 MAR 1882      Hannover Stadt, Hannover, PreussenDeath:
>>>> 
>>>> Heinrich Wilhelm Gustav Haupt
>>>> Birth: 30 OCT 1887
>>>> Christening: 01 JAN 1888      Hannover Stadt, Hannover
>>>> 
>>>> There are others listed.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Barbara
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> on 12/2/06 2:27 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870 -1950.
>>>>> How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of the
>>>>> person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New York,
>>>>> having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had an
>>>>> address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.
>>>>> From a 1901 map of Hannover (wonderfully scanned in color) the city is
>>>>> laid out with its various districts and streets. The index for the map
>>>>> lists six "Gartens" with various names. This is the link:
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.hicleones.com/callmap-e.php?tekst=10049&map=Hanover%2FHannover%
>>>>> 20
>>>>> -%
>>>>> 20City
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am wondering if perhaps the Gartens were numbered by the locals and
>>>>> used to describe a part of the city of Hannover they lived. This is what
>>>>> I am working with:
>>>>> 
>>>>> *Place in Hannover*:   Hannover, Garteneg 6
>>>>> *Person residing there*:  Heinrich Haupt
>>>>> *When*:  1870 -- 1950
>>>>> *Daughter of Heinrich Haupt*:   Karoline Thigpen   (presumably Karoline
>>>>> Haupt before marriage to Thigpen)
>>>>> *Time Frame*:  Address of Hannover, Garteneg 6 was given on New York
>>>>> port entry record in 1925. Karoline stated that this was her father's
>>>>> address.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My objective is to find Heinrich Haupt and and his family. Heinrich
>>>>> Haupt's daughter, Karoline, married my cousin, William D. Thigpen around
>>>>> 1920-1925.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Allen Thigpen
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> 
>> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Address help - who's address in Uelzen?

Date: 2006/12/04 19:38:17
From: bobbidoll <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>

 
If I am not mistaken, it is the church office for the district.Bobbi

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way  your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com

Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese

Date: 2006/12/04 19:41:53
From: bobbidoll <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>

 
Hi Susanne,I have family that came from Leese.  My Great-great-grandmother (Sophie Buck) was born in Leese in 1845.  Would you have access to those records?Thanks for your time.Bobbi--- On Fri 12/01, Susanne Schmitz &lt; su-schmitz(a)gmx.net &gt; wrote:From: Susanne Schmitz [mailto: su-schmitz(a)gmx.net]To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.netDate: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 10:05:47 +0100Subject: Re: [HN] Harmening/LeeseHallo Ghyll,I am working with the churchbooks of Leese in order to write an  Ortsfamilienbuch Leese 1654 - 1753(Familybook for Leese). The Harmelings  are living there for a long time. So what special information do you need ?MfG   Susanne______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
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Re: [HN] Neustadt-Goedens

Date: 2006/12/04 19:52:40
From: Wilfried Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"Robert Coley" <rcoley001(a)triad.rr.com> schrieb:
> Re: akorbanka(a)hotmail.com
> Mein Urgrossvater und Urgrossmutter lebten in Neustadt Goedens. Die Urgrossmutter ist in Tichelboe Amt Wittmund geboren. Wo kann ich diese Daten nach sehen?
> Vielen Dank. Katrin 


Hallo Katrin,

das kommt darauf an, wann das war. Ab 1876 ist das Standesamt zuständig, vorher mußt Du die Kirchenbücher zu Rate ziehen.

Neustadtgödens und Tichelboe gehören heute zur Gemeinde Sande. Anschrift des Standesamtes siehe   www.sande.de/rathaus.htm

Viel Erfolg,
Wilfried (Petersen)




Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/04 20:25:03
From: Allen T. <athn(a)alltel.net>

Hi Barbara,

I have records on Karoline:
1. 1925--New York port entry; arriving on 29 Oct 1925; age given as 24; married, she gave her father's address as "Hannover, Garteneg 6"; father's name given as "Heinrich Haupt" ; she sailed to New York from Hamburg; destination in the US was given as Paterson, NJ

2. 1930--US census for Paterson, NJ, April 1930: name recorded as "Caroline" Thigpen; age given as 29; widowed; from Germany, parents from Germany.

3. 1930--New York Port entry; arrived 14 Dec 1930; age given as 30; widowed; gave her address as Paterson, NJ; sailed from Bremmen.

4. 1937--New York Port entry; arrived 20 May 1937; age given as 37; widowed; address given as 3771 Decatur Ave, NY, NY; had been issued a Passport, # 364118, from Washington DC.

Karoline is believed to have married William Dennette Thigpen. He was a crewmember on various freighter ships from 1920 - 1925. Port entry records available online indicate he was on 7 voyages aboard freight ships or oil tankers. The last record is for 20 March 1925. I have not found a record that William and Karoline were together in the same place. Stories of William having met and married a German girl have been in the family since the 1920's. He had very little contact with his natural family in Florida. He is believed to have been killed or died in an accident around 1925. There has not been a positive identification of this fact, however.

Regards,
Allen Thigpen

R&B Stewart wrote:
Hello Allen,

       It's not clear to me--did Karoline emigrate with her husband or
alone.  When?

       Your search is a difficult one since your family was in a large city.
Somehow you need to find Karoline's birth. It is not listed in the LDS (IGI)
where the other Haupts are, maybe because it is later than the others.  It
is very hard to trace a family line to later times.  We usually go
backwards!
    Are you anywhere near a LDS center?  That is where you can get a great
many records from Hannover Stadt.  You order films and then read them at
the center.  There are so many churches in the city of Hannover.  There is a
set of indexes to the churches there--several films.  They are done by
surname.  There are 138 films just for the index!  You could look at the two
films that include the name Haupt. Of course, it is always possible that
your Karoline won't be listed there at all. People simply were not as
religious in 1900 than decades earlier.

   If you need help as to how to find the films, let me know.

Barbara



on 12/2/06 9:38 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:

Thanks again Barbara,

You are a help!  I appreciate your efforts; I have learned that it is
vital to network to solve some riddles. A translation on "Garteweg"
yielded and English rendering of "Garden Way", so I think we may have
possibly solved part of the address conundrum.  I used the Google
translator at:   http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en   I find
this translator site works better than most for individual words as well
as phrases.

The search you did on Heinrich Haupt may prove promising as well. How
would you go about tracing his down line?  The current phone directory
for Hannover lists a Karoline Haupt--I stopped short of calling today,
mainly because I do not speak German and also because I need more
information.

Have any of you ever contacted the local library or any of the other
local resources in Hannover?

Regards,
Allen Thigpen

R&B Stewart wrote:
Hello Allen,

This is just a suggestion-- Many people named their children after
their own parents.  Here's a Heinrich Haupt with a mother by the name of
Carolina--close to the Karoline name you have.

HEINRICH WILHELM LUDWIG HAUPT

Birth: 17 NOV 1878 Hannover, Preussen Christening: 01 DEC 1878 Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen

Parents:
Father:     AUGUST LUDWIG HAUPT     Family
Mother:     CAROLINA HENRIETTE DORIS WEDEKIND

It really can't be proven with the information you have.  Where was Karoline
born?
Another thought-- since many of the Haupt names on the LDS site have 3 or 4
names,  it could be that your Heinrich could have been anything like Johann
Heinrich August Haupt and his records are stated with the formal name. But
he used the name of Heinrich Haupt most often. That can be really confusing.

I'm wondering that the Garteneg 6 mentioned isn't supposed to be
"Gartenweg".  Garten means Garden.  A Google search lists "Gartenweg" but  I
don't know what that means either.

Not much help, am I?  I hope you can find your answers.

Barbara










on 12/2/06 4:21 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:


Hi Barbara, thank you for your reply.  Heinrich Haupt's daughter,
Karoline, was born in (1900 - 1901); therefore, we can assume that
Heinrich was most likely born between 1850 and 1882.

Allen Thigpen

R&B Stewart wrote:

Hello Allen,
I'm wondering if you have a date of birth for Heinrich Haupt.  The LDS
have these entries for Heinrich Haupt:

Heinrich Friedrich Ferdinand Haupt
Birth:     22 JAN 1862     Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen
Christening:     28 MAR 1862     Hannover Stadt, Hannover, Preussen

Heinrich Friedrich August Haupt
Birth: 19 JAN 1882
Christening: 05 MAR 1882      Hannover Stadt, Hannover, PreussenDeath:

Heinrich Wilhelm Gustav Haupt
Birth: 30 OCT 1887
Christening: 01 JAN 1888      Hannover Stadt, Hannover

There are others listed.


Barbara


on 12/2/06 2:27 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:



Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:

I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870 -1950.
How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of the
person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New York,
having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had an
address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.
From a 1901 map of Hannover (wonderfully scanned in color) the city is
laid out with its various districts and streets. The index for the map
lists six "Gartens" with various names. This is the link:

http://www.hicleones.com/callmap-e.php?tekst=10049&map=Hanover%2FHannover%
20
-%
20City

I am wondering if perhaps the Gartens were numbered by the locals and
used to describe a part of the city of Hannover they lived. This is what
I am working with:

*Place in Hannover*:   Hannover, Garteneg 6
*Person residing there*:  Heinrich Haupt
*When*:  1870 -- 1950
*Daughter of Heinrich Haupt*:   Karoline Thigpen   (presumably Karoline
Haupt before marriage to Thigpen)
*Time Frame*:  Address of Hannover, Garteneg 6 was given on New York
port entry record in 1925. Karoline stated that this was her father's
address.

My objective is to find Heinrich Haupt and and his family. Heinrich
Haupt's daughter, Karoline, married my cousin, William D. Thigpen around
1920-1925.

Best regards,
Allen Thigpen
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Re: [HN] Neustadt-Goedens

Date: 2006/12/04 21:29:44
From: Heinz Esen <ahnenforschung-esen(a)t-online.de>

"Wilfried Petersen" <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de> schrieb:
> "Robert Coley" <rcoley001(a)triad.rr.com> schrieb:
> > Re: akorbanka(a)hotmail.com
> > Mein Urgrossvater und Urgrossmutter lebten in Neustadt Goedens. Die Urgrossmutter ist in Tichelboe Amt Wittmund geboren. Wo kann ich diese Daten nach sehen?
> > Vielen Dank. Katrin 
> 
> 
> Hallo Katrin,
> 
> das kommt darauf an, wann das war. Ab 1876 ist das Standesamt zuständig, vorher mußt Du die Kirchenbücher zu Rate ziehen.
> 
> Neustadtgödens und Tichelboe gehören heute zur Gemeinde Sande. Anschrift des Standesamtes siehe   www.sande.de/rathaus.htm
> 
> Viel Erfolg,
> Wilfried (Petersen)
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> ^


Moin, Moin !



Von Neustadtgödens gibt es ein Ortssippenbuch - von 1695 - 1900..

Welcher Name wird gewünscht ?


Es grüßt Sie Heinz Esen von der Fam.Fo.Grupe Esens / Ostfriesland




Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/04 23:50:30
From: Susanne Schmitz <su-schmitz(a)gmx.net>

Hallo Allen,

Gartenweg is the old name of a street, now called Franz-Nause-Strasse; its situated in Hannover-Limmer. My father, grandmother and greatgrandparents lived in Gartenweg 2 until all houses were bombed and burnt down.

Greetings   Susanne

Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:

I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870 -1950.
How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of the
person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New York,
having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had an
address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.

Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/05 00:18:23
From: Allen T. <athn(a)alltel.net>

Hello Susanne,

Thank you!!

I am getting closer! It appears that the 2 and the 6 at the end of "Gartenweg" are block numbers. Is this correct? Can you tell me anything about the nature of the communities on Gartenweg? From the postings of others on this forum, it seems the best way to locate the records of Heinrich Haupt and his daughter Karoline, is through the LDS records. I would need to know about the local churches in the area. If you (or anyone else reading this) can offer any advice, I would be grateful.

Thanks again!
Best regards,
Allen



Susanne Schmitz wrote:
Hallo Allen,

Gartenweg is the old name of a street, now called Franz-Nause-Strasse; its situated in Hannover-Limmer. My father, grandmother and greatgrandparents lived in Gartenweg 2 until all houses were bombed and burnt down.

Greetings   Susanne

Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:

I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870 -1950.
How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of the
person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New York,
having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had an
address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.
______________________________________________

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Re: [HN] Neustadt-Goedens

Date: 2006/12/05 00:32:44
From: Rohde.I(a)t-online.de <Rohde.I(a)t-online.de>

moin,moin
welche Ortssippenbücher gibt es überhaupt aus der Gegend?
Ich such im Allgemeinen nach FREESE aus Esens?
Gruß
Ingrid    (Rohde)
 "Heinz Esen" <mailto:ahnenforschung-esen(a)t-online.de> schrieb:
> "Wilfried Petersen" <mailto:Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de> schrieb:
> > "Robert Coley" <mailto:rcoley001(a)triad.rr.com> schrieb:
> > > Re: akorbanka(a)hotmail.com
> > > Mein Urgrossvater und Urgrossmutter lebten in Neustadt Goedens. Die Urgrossmutter ist in Tichelboe Amt Wittmund geboren. Wo kann ich diese Daten nach sehen?
> > > Vielen Dank. Katrin 
> > 
> > 
> > Hallo Katrin,
> > 
> > das kommt darauf an, wann das war. Ab 1876 ist das Standesamt zuständig, vorher mußt Du die Kirchenbücher zu Rate ziehen.
> > 
> > Neustadtgödens und Tichelboe gehören heute zur Gemeinde Sande. Anschrift des Standesamtes siehe   www.sande.de/rathaus.htm
> > 
> > Viel Erfolg,
> > Wilfried (Petersen)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > 
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > mailto:Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > ^
> 
> 
> Moin, Moin !
> 
> 
> 
> Von Neustadtgödens gibt es ein Ortssippenbuch - von 1695 - 1900..
> 
> Welcher Name wird gewünscht ?
> 
> 
> Es grüßt Sie Heinz Esen von der Fam.Fo.Grupe Esens / Ostfriesland
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> mailto:Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 

Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/05 00:41:20
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Allen,
         There are LDS records for Limmer!  The LDS has this:

     Kirchenbuch, 1700-1934
    Evangelische Kirche. Nicolaikirche Limmer (Linden) (Main Author)

       It might work for you.  There are 6 microfilms by date.

Barbara





on 12/4/06 4:17 PM, Allen T. at athn(a)alltel.net wrote:

> Hello Susanne,
> 
> Thank you!!
> 
> I am getting closer!  It appears that the 2 and the 6 at the end of
> "Gartenweg" are  block numbers. Is this correct? Can you tell me
> anything about the nature of the communities on Gartenweg?  From the
> postings of others on this forum, it seems the best way to locate the
> records of Heinrich Haupt and his daughter Karoline, is through the LDS
> records. I would need to know about the local churches in the area. If
> you (or anyone else reading this) can offer any advice, I would be grateful.
> 
> Thanks again!
> Best regards,
> Allen
> 
> 
> 
> Susanne Schmitz wrote:
>> Hallo Allen,
>> 
>> Gartenweg is the old name of a street, now called Franz-Nause-Strasse; its
>> situated in Hannover-Limmer. My father, grandmother and greatgrandparents
>> lived in Gartenweg 2 until all houses were bombed and burnt down.
>> 
>> Greetings   Susanne
>> 
>> 
>>> Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:
>>> 
>>> I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870 -1950.
>>> How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of the
>>> person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New York,
>>> having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had an
>>> address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.
>>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> 
>> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Hattorffs in the KGL

Date: 2006/12/05 04:37:32
From: Maureen <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>

There was traditional order for sons: either 1- inherited everything, 2- joined military, 3- joined clergy or was it 1- inherited everything, 2- became a clergyman, 3- joined the military?

Does anyone know/recall for certain which is was?

Maureen


----- Original Message ----- From: "Rena McCarthy" <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Hattorffs in the KGL


Hallo Armin,

You said:-
<<His name was Georg Heinrich von Hattorff he was one of the
nobled line of our family. He was fighting at Salamancar and Waterloo
against Napoleon. He was a captain or in those days they called him
"Rittmeister"
what is the same like Captain.>>

It is evident G.H. Von Hattorff (or his father) bought a commission (paid
money to be an army officer).  He would have bought his own horses and
uniform and sword.  He will probably not have been the oldest son and
therefore would not inherit any land - an army career would have allowed him
to mingle in the upper classes of society and gain a rich bride :-)

<<The secret is why did Johann August disband in 1824 most of his comrads
are disbandes in about 1816 after Waterloo. >>

This man was not a commissioned officer - he belonged to the 'other ranks'.
He may have been 'conscripted' by the army for 2 years and signed on for
another 10 years.  Or, if there was no work in his homeland, he may have
chosen an army career and signed on as a 'regular soldier' for 5, 10 or 15
years.   He did very well to rise up in the ranks from private, to corporal
to sergeant -maybe he got his promotion stripes during battle.  The other
men who went home in 1816 were mostly low rank privates and they would not
be paid much money.  We have to ask ourselves if he was a well paid
craftsman in civilian life or did he earn more money as a sergeant in the
army.

<<But with your help i have now the adresses of  the
curches in Uxbridge. I am sure that Frederick August is born there. The
first born children of Johann August were born in England the next two in
Germany.
The secret is why did Johann August disband in 1824 most of his comrads  are
disbandes in about 1816 after Waterloo. >>

Have you visited this 'rootschat' website?  On the 'Middlesex' page there
are some "Resources" which you can look through.
When you have seen them maybe somebody on this "Middlesex Look Up REQUESTS"
board can help you?  Go to the bottom of this page, click on "NEW TOPICS"
and make your request:-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,25.0.html
==
<<And i wonder why i could find Johann August in the LDS files but not his
son Frederick A.>>

There are many reasons:  maybe the Middlesex/London church records did not
survive the English weather, or were destroyed in WWI or WWII or the family
moved to another English, French, German barracks (another army base) - you
recall I found the other Captain Hattorf in other parts of England.  If the
two Hattorfs were in the same battalion F.A. Hattorf may have been baptised
in another county. This means you have to look in Buckinghamshire or
Cambridgeshire for the baptism.   This will be difficult if the names have
incorrect spellings.

Not all births, marriages, deaths are on film - sometimes the only place to
find families is to ask for help from a "Family History Society" (FHS).
==
This is a free website http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ and this is the only name
I found but it it is in the county of Wiltshire, north of Middlesex county.

Surname First name(s)  District    Vol/ Page
Births:   Sep 1864
HATTOR Walter          Cricklade 5a/25
==
Good wishes,
Rena
==
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 19:09:05 EST
Hi Rena
Wow nice to hear from you, you have a lot of informations for me. Yes  i
always new that their was a second Hattorff serving in the KGL. Even his
name  is not in the list.
Was it his father in law who would like to see him longer in Great Britain?
Maybe Mr. Brookes was in the army too.
Usually their should be files at the LDS church.
Thank you so much for your assitance.
Armin AJHattorf(a)aol.com


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Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/05 12:59:31
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

Try this URL:

http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&hl=de&q=Franz+Nause+Str.2,+Hannover&sll=52.374761,9.735603&sspn=0.099139,0.344009&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=52.376595,9.694662&spn=0.012392,0.043001&t=k&om=1

Good luck,
Werner


> Hello Susanne,

> Thank you!!

> I am getting closer!  It appears that the 2 and the 6 at the end of
> "Gartenweg" are  block numbers. Is this correct? Can you tell me
> anything about the nature of the communities on Gartenweg?  From the
> postings of others on this forum, it seems the best way to locate the
> records of Heinrich Haupt and his daughter Karoline, is through the LDS
> records. I would need to know about the local churches in the area. If
> you (or anyone else reading this) can offer any advice, I would be
> grateful.

> Thanks again!
> Best regards,
> Allen



> Susanne Schmitz wrote:
>> Hallo Allen,
>>
>> Gartenweg is the old name of a street, now called Franz-Nause-Strasse;
>> its
>> situated in Hannover-Limmer. My father, grandmother and greatgrandparents
>> lived in Gartenweg 2 until all houses were bombed and burnt down.
>>
>> Greetings   Susanne
>>
>>
>>> Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:
>>>
>>> I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870 -1950.
>>> How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of the
>>> person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New York,
>>> having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had an
>>> address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>
>>

> ______________________________________________

> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



Re: [HN] Neustadt-Goedens

Date: 2006/12/05 13:45:23
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Wilifried,

Ist diese SANDE same Sande near Bergedorf?  [HAMBURG-BERGEDORF]

I think annexed by Lohbrügge ???

I don't know..

Lots of Sande turn up at Genwicki.  I get so confused.

Grandmother Dora Schmidt born 1900 Sande near Bergedorf.

Her brother Karl Schmidt born circa 1885 Geesthacht. He married Dora Klatt who I think?? was born Bergedorf.

I would think from circa 1885 to circa 1900...had to be more siblings... ??? Is my first thought anyway.

Barbie










"Robert Coley" <rcoley001(a)triad.rr.com> schrieb:
> Re: akorbanka(a)hotmail.com
> Mein Urgrossvater und Urgrossmutter lebten in Neustadt Goedens. Die Urgrossmutter ist in Tichelboe Amt Wittmund geboren. Wo kann ich diese Daten nach sehen?
> Vielen Dank. Katrin


Hallo Katrin,

das kommt darauf an, wann das war. Ab 1876 ist das Standesamt zuständig, vorher mußt Du die Kirchenbücher zu Rate ziehen.

Neustadtgödens und Tichelboe gehören heute zur Gemeinde Sande. Anschrift des Standesamtes siehe www.sande.de/rathaus.htm

Viel Erfolg,
Wilfried (Petersen)



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Re: [HN] Ortsfamilienbuch Leese

Date: 2006/12/05 15:13:35
From: urlsch <urlsch(a)web.de>

Hallo Susanne,

ich habe ebenfalls Vorfahren aus Leese. Man sagte mir vor ein paar Jahren, dass dort die Kirchenbücher verbrannt seien und
somit keine weitere Forschung mehr möglich sei.
Ich suche Heiratsdatum von Johann Friedrich Conrad Buck (*~ 8.4.1792 Leese, + 23.4.1882) mit Marie Dorothee Elisabeth Dohrmann (*13.10.1799, ~20.10.1799 Leese, + 17.3.1866) . und auch Daten zu weiteren Vorfahren (seine Eltern: Buck, Friedrich Johann und Landwehr, Elisabeth Margarethe).
Kann man evtl doch noch etwas herausfinden?

Grüße
Ulrike


Re: [HN] Neustadt-Goedens

Date: 2006/12/05 16:31:41
From: Wilfried Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

Hello Barbie,

unfortunately no, that's another Sande. This Sande (with Neustadtgoedens) is near Wilhelmshaven, immediately west of it.

Regards,
Wilfried (Petersen)

"Cactus Flower" <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com> schrieb:
> Dear Wilifried,
> 
> Ist diese SANDE same Sande near Bergedorf?  [HAMBURG-BERGEDORF]
> 
> I think annexed by Lohbrügge ???
> 
> I don't know..
> 
> Lots of Sande turn up at Genwicki.  I get so confused.
> 




Re: [HN] Neustadt-Goedens

Date: 2006/12/05 16:37:47
From: Wilfried Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"Rohde.I(a)t-online.de" <Rohde.I(a)t-online.de> schrieb:
> moin,moin
> welche Ortssippenbücher gibt es überhaupt aus der Gegend?



Hallo Ingrid,

siehe:  www.genealogy.net/index.php/Kategorie:Ortsfamilienbuch

Gruß
Wilfried (Petersen)


Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/05 18:38:29
From: svcygnus <svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com>

Allen,
  I believe you will find that the numbers following the street name are
actually house numbers.   German addresses normally have the house numbers
after the street name instead of before it as in American addresses.
This would suggest that Gartebweg 6 is only two doors removed from Gartenweg 2
on the even numbered side of the street.   [however, I know that in small
farming towns the house numbers were originally assigned in the order in which
the houses were built.  I don't know if that practice applied in large cities
like Hannover or when the system changed].
Don Roddy

----- Message from athn(a)alltel.net ---------
    Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:17:59 -0500
    From: "Allen T." <athn(a)alltel.net>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
 Subject: Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925
      To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>



Hello Susanne,

Thank you!!

I am getting closer!  It appears that the 2 and the 6 at the end of
"Gartenweg" are  block numbers. Is this correct? Can you tell me
anything about the nature of the communities on Gartenweg?  From the
postings of others on this forum, it seems the best way to locate the
records of Heinrich Haupt and his daughter Karoline, is through the LDS
records. I would need to know about the local churches in the area. If
you (or anyone else reading this) can offer any advice, I would be grateful.

Thanks again!
Best regards,
Allen



Susanne Schmitz wrote:
Hallo Allen,

Gartenweg is the old name of a street, now called Franz-Nause-Strasse; its
situated in Hannover-Limmer. My father, grandmother and greatgrandparents
lived in Gartenweg 2 until all houses were bombed and burnt down.

Greetings   Susanne


Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:

I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870 -1950.
How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of the
person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New York,
having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had an
address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



----- End message from athn(a)alltel.net -----



Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/05 20:11:10
From: Holger Bremer <holgerbremer(a)googlemail.com>

Hello,

in 1928 there is no Gartenweg 5. But there is Gartenstr. 5. The habitants
are Prediger, O
Hoppenstock, R   Schmelz M, Sellheim, H.

The right side of a street has the Number 1, 3
the other side 2, 4, 6 and so on. You see, there was no house in No. 5 that
time.



2006/12/5, svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com <svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com>:

Allen,
   I believe you will find that the numbers following the street name are
actually house numbers.   German addresses normally have the house numbers
after the street name instead of before it as in American addresses.
   This would suggest that Gartebweg 6 is only two doors removed from
Gartenweg 2
on the even numbered side of the street.   [however, I know that in small
farming towns the house numbers were originally assigned in the order in
which
the houses were built.  I don't know if that practice applied in large
cities
like Hannover or when the system changed].
Don Roddy

----- Message from athn(a)alltel.net ---------
     Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:17:59 -0500
     From: "Allen T." <athn(a)alltel.net>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
  Subject: Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925
       To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>


>
> Hello Susanne,
>
> Thank you!!
>
> I am getting closer!  It appears that the 2 and the 6 at the end of
> "Gartenweg" are  block numbers. Is this correct? Can you tell me
> anything about the nature of the communities on Gartenweg?  From the
> postings of others on this forum, it seems the best way to locate the
> records of Heinrich Haupt and his daughter Karoline, is through the LDS
> records. I would need to know about the local churches in the area. If
> you (or anyone else reading this) can offer any advice, I would be
grateful.
>
> Thanks again!
> Best regards,
> Allen
>
>
>
> Susanne Schmitz wrote:
>> Hallo Allen,
>>
>> Gartenweg is the old name of a street, now called Franz-Nause-Strasse;
its
>> situated in Hannover-Limmer. My father, grandmother and
greatgrandparents
>> lived in Gartenweg 2 until all houses were bombed and burnt down.
>>
>> Greetings   Susanne
>>
>>
>>> Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:
>>>
>>> I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870
-1950.
>>> How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of
the
>>> person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New
York,
>>> having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had
an
>>> address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>


----- End message from athn(a)alltel.net -----


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[HN] KGL records at Record Office Kew England

Date: 2006/12/06 00:16:45
From: terry white <terryak.white(a)virgin.net>

5.12.06 
 
Hi there, 
 
For those of you  who asked for me to look up KGL soldiers  in the list
at the National Record Office, 
 
I went up today, as I found that I had some other things to research,
and have gone through the book on the Kings German Legion  in the
library there.
 
Before I list what I found, I should explain that there are 3 lists in
the book, which was produced by Len Metzner of the Anglo-German Family
History Society.
 
I'll number them A B and C so that you can see where the  entries that I
found came from.
 
A was the list of soldiers present at Waterloo on 18th June 1815.
[record reference WO12/11949 and W100/15b]
 
B was the list of soldiers taken from Muster rolls mostly it seems from
1808, except for the Hussars, which were from 1814. [WO25 and WO 42]
 
C is a list from Hanover Archive.  It is  a shorter list, and does not
explain its origin in any more detail.
 
 
Most of the following come from list B.
 
 I could find no Gansberg in any of the lists. Nor Morlot or Morlo.  In
list A, there was a   Josephus Morro Pte  3rd Line Battalion KGL
 
Nor could I find a Wolfien in any of the lists. 
 
There were no Brummunds either. There were Brummers, and if  that would
be any good, Ron, I could go back some time and list those. 
 
Lott   There were two entries ; 
 
List B                         George Lott                  Sgt 8th
Company, 7th Line Battalion KGL
List A                         Frederick  Lott              Pte  3rd
Line Battalion KGL
 
Haultaufderhyde   I could find no members of this family name listed,
and I tried looking for variants but couldn't find any either. 
 
Hattorf however, was  there, with variants:
 
List A                           Hans Hattorf        Capt 1st Light
Dragoons KGL
                                    Geo. Hattorff        Severely
wounded 1st Light Dragoons KGL
 
List B                            Hattorf  George     Cornet  8th Troop
1st Heavy Dragoons KGL
                                                 George     Lieut    8th
Troop 1st Heavy Dragoons KGL
                                                 Hans        Capt
3rd Troop  2nd Heavy Dragoons KGL
                                    Hattorff   August      Sgt      1st
Troop 1st Light Dragoons KGL
                                                 August      Sgt Major
10th Troop  1st Hussars
 
and I thought I would include this as it might be an error in
transcription:
 
List B                             Hastorff   John        Pte  3rd
Company 3rd Line Battalion
 
Burgdorf    No sign of a Julius Wilhelm, I'm afraid, Max, but I  have
listed the names that were there, with variants.  
 
List C                           Burgdorf  Peter age  22 of Luneburg
List B                           Burgdorff   Henry Pte  6th Company 2nd
Line Battalion KGL 
                                                   Peter  Pte   5th
Company 5th Line Battalion KGL
List A                           Burgdorff John,  Bugler, 1st Light
Battalion KGL
 
Fehlig  There were no Fehligs, but there were  FEHLINGS . I wrote them
down Bob, even though  you thought it too early for your ancestor, and
this may not be relevant. But it was only four names. For reference
 
List B                             Fehling  Johan    Pte 1st Troop  2nd
Light Dragoons KGL 
                                                  John      Pte 1st
Troop  2nd Hussars KGL
                                                  Jno        Pte 1st
Company  1st Light Infantry Battalion
List A                             Fehling   John     Pte 1st Light
Battalion      KILLED
 
 
Finally Hillmer   in various variants,  had 11 entries.
 
List A                             Hillmer, Hans  Wm    Pte   3rd
Hussars KGL
                                                  Henry           Sgt
3rd Hussars KGL
List B                             Hillmer   Christian      Pte    4th
Troop   1st Light Dragoons KGL
                                                   Francies      Farrier
4rd Company  KGL Art       ( I copied what this said,  I guess Art means
"Artillery")
                                                   H Wilh         Pte
4th Troop 3rd Hussars KGL
                                                   Heinr.          Cpl
4th Troop 3rd Hussars  KGL
                                                   Henry          Pte
5th Company  1st Light Infantry Battalion KGL 
                                      Hillmers  Heinrich      Pte   4th
Troop 3rd Light Dragoons KGL      
                                      Hillwers   John          Pte   1st
Company  4th Line Battalion KGL  
                                      Hilmers   Johann       Pte    5th
Troop 1st Heavy Dragoons KGL     
                                      Hilmker   Christopher Pte    5th
Troop 1st Heavy Dragoons KGL 
 
I hope that something here is of some use to any or all of you.  I also
hope that I haven't missed anybody's request out.
 
 
Terry
                                                  
                                      
                                       
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
                                                 

Re: [HN] Neustadt-Goedens

Date: 2006/12/06 00:44:06
From: Rohde.I(a)t-online.de <Rohde.I(a)t-online.de>

Wilfried, 
Danke
Gruß
Ingrid   (Rohde)
 "Wilfried Petersen" <mailto:Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de> schrieb:
> "mailto:Rohde.I(a)t-online.de" <mailto:Rohde.I(a)t-online.de> schrieb:
> > moin,moin
> > welche Ortssippenbücher gibt es überhaupt aus der Gegend?
> 
> 
> 
> Hallo Ingrid,
> 
> siehe:  www.genealogy.net/index.php/Kategorie:Ortsfamilienbuch
> 
> Gruß
> Wilfried (Petersen)
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> mailto:Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 

Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/06 04:45:52
From: Allen T. <athn(a)alltel.net>

Hello Hoger,

Thank you very much for your detailed response regarding (Gartengeg 6), (Gatenweg 6). My interest is in Heinrich Haupt said to reside at Gartenweg 6 in 1925. At this point, I cannot rule out that there may have been alternate spellings of, or ways of referring to, this particular street in Hannover. Might I ask you for the source of this information, and if it is readily available for me to investigate?

Thanks and best regards,
Allen Thigpen

Holger Bremer wrote:
Hello,

in 1928 there is no Gartenweg 5. But there is Gartenstr. 5. The habitants
are Prediger, O
Hoppenstock, R   Schmelz M, Sellheim, H.

The right side of a street has the Number 1, 3
the other side 2, 4, 6 and so on. You see, there was no house in No. 5 that
time.



2006/12/5, svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com <svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com>:
Allen,
   I believe you will find that the numbers following the street name are
actually house numbers.   German addresses normally have the house numbers
after the street name instead of before it as in American addresses.
   This would suggest that Gartebweg 6 is only two doors removed from
Gartenweg 2
on the even numbered side of the street.   [however, I know that in small
farming towns the house numbers were originally assigned in the order in
which
the houses were built.  I don't know if that practice applied in large
cities
like Hannover or when the system changed].
Don Roddy

----- Message from athn(a)alltel.net ---------
     Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:17:59 -0500
     From: "Allen T." <athn(a)alltel.net>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
  Subject: Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925
       To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>


Hello Susanne,

Thank you!!

I am getting closer!  It appears that the 2 and the 6 at the end of
"Gartenweg" are  block numbers. Is this correct? Can you tell me
anything about the nature of the communities on Gartenweg?  From the
postings of others on this forum, it seems the best way to locate the
records of Heinrich Haupt and his daughter Karoline, is through the LDS
records. I would need to know about the local churches in the area. If
you (or anyone else reading this) can offer any advice, I would be
grateful.
Thanks again!
Best regards,
Allen



Susanne Schmitz wrote:
Hallo Allen,

Gartenweg is the old name of a street, now called Franz-Nause-Strasse;
its
situated in Hannover-Limmer. My father, grandmother and
greatgrandparents
lived in Gartenweg 2 until all houses were bombed and burnt down.

Greetings   Susanne


Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:

I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870
-1950.
How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of
the
person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New
York,
having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had
an
address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.

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----- End message from athn(a)alltel.net -----


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Re: [HN] KGL Records

Date: 2006/12/06 06:29:15
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Hi Terry
 
Great what you got there, those who have results should perhaps try  their 
luck in the archive in Hannover to see more Details. Tank you very much  for 
your help.
 
I wounder why there are tree names Hans, George and August.
 
The question is is Hans and George the same?
 
_http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp_ 
(http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp) 
 
This was the link Rena was once sending me, to check the list, but Hans and  
George are not in, only Johann August. Even using the different spellings of  
Hattorf and Hattorff. So it seems that the online list is not complete.
 
Thanks again
 
Armin
 
 

Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/06 06:32:19
From: Holger Bremer <holgerbremer(a)googlemail.com>

hello,

the source is the Adressbuch Hannover 1928. I will send you the habitants of
Gartenweg 6 this evening.

Yes, its right there are a Gartenstraße and a Gartenweg in Hannover.

Holger


2006/12/6, Allen T. <athn(a)alltel.net>:

Hello Hoger,

Thank you very much for your detailed response regarding (Gartengeg 6),
(Gatenweg 6).  My interest is in Heinrich Haupt said to reside at
Gartenweg 6 in 1925. At this point, I cannot rule out  that there may
have been alternate spellings of, or ways of referring to, this
particular street in Hannover. Might I ask you for the source of this
information, and if it is readily available for me to investigate?

Thanks and best regards,
Allen Thigpen

Holger Bremer wrote:
> Hello,
>
> in 1928 there is no Gartenweg 5. But there is Gartenstr. 5. The
habitants
> are Prediger, O
> Hoppenstock, R   Schmelz M, Sellheim, H.
>
> The right side of a street has the Number 1, 3
> the other side 2, 4, 6 and so on. You see, there was no house in No. 5
that
> time.
>
>
>
> 2006/12/5, svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com <svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com>:
>
>> Allen,
>>    I believe you will find that the numbers following the street name
are
>> actually house numbers.   German addresses normally have the house
numbers
>> after the street name instead of before it as in American addresses.
>>    This would suggest that Gartebweg 6 is only two doors removed from
>> Gartenweg 2
>> on the even numbered side of the street.   [however, I know that in
small
>> farming towns the house numbers were originally assigned in the order
in
>> which
>> the houses were built.  I don't know if that practice applied in large
>> cities
>> like Hannover or when the system changed].
>> Don Roddy
>>
>> ----- Message from athn(a)alltel.net ---------
>>      Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:17:59 -0500
>>      From: "Allen T." <athn(a)alltel.net>
>> Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>>   Subject: Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925
>>        To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hello Susanne,
>>>
>>> Thank you!!
>>>
>>> I am getting closer!  It appears that the 2 and the 6 at the end of
>>> "Gartenweg" are  block numbers. Is this correct? Can you tell me
>>> anything about the nature of the communities on Gartenweg?  From the
>>> postings of others on this forum, it seems the best way to locate the
>>> records of Heinrich Haupt and his daughter Karoline, is through the
LDS
>>> records. I would need to know about the local churches in the area. If
>>> you (or anyone else reading this) can offer any advice, I would be
>>>
>> grateful.
>>
>>> Thanks again!
>>> Best regards,
>>> Allen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Susanne Schmitz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hallo Allen,
>>>>
>>>> Gartenweg is the old name of a street, now called
Franz-Nause-Strasse;
>>>>
>> its
>>
>>>> situated in Hannover-Limmer. My father, grandmother and
>>>>
>> greatgrandparents
>>
>>>> lived in Gartenweg 2 until all houses were bombed and burnt down.
>>>>
>>>> Greetings   Susanne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Greeting Hannover Genealogy Researchers:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have some questions regarding Hannover in the time period 1870
>>>>>
>> -1950.
>>
>>>>> How might I go about matching an address in Hannover to the name of
>>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>>> person said to be living there? In a ship record of entry into New
>>>>>
>> York,
>>
>>>>> having sailed from Germany, a relative indicated that her father had
>>>>>
>> an
>>
>>>>> address in Hannover. She gave the address as: Garteneg 6, Hannover.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>>
>>>
>> ----- End message from athn(a)alltel.net -----
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>

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Re: [HN] Gartens of Hannover--Heinrich Haupt, 1925

Date: 2006/12/06 11:53:20
From: n . ordemann <n.ordemann(a)infocity.de>

Hi,

> ... This would suggest that Gartebweg 6 is only two doors removed from
> Gartenweg 2
> on the even numbered side of the street.   [however, I know that in small
> farming towns the house numbers were originally assigned in the order in
> which
> the houses were built.  I don't know if that practice applied in large
> cities
> like Hannover or when the system changed].
remember that, roughly eastward from Braunschweig, in Berlin and the
Eastern states another numbering system is widely used: Houses are
numbered first on one side from 1 to "n" (odd AND even numbers), then
continuing on the opposite side from "n+1" upwards back, so the house with
the highest number in the street is just opposite of house number 1.

Nikolaus (Ordemann)
http://privat.genealogy.net/ordemann




[HN] Gartenweg Response from Landeshauptstadt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/06 14:40:52
From: Allen T. <athn(a)alltel.net>

Would someone fluent in German be so kind as to translate this or give the highlights please. As I understand it, from doing an online translation, the important information is that there were 2 streets with the name of Gartenweg in them in 1922. But I may have misunderstood.

Best regards,
Allen


Sehr geehrter Herr Thipgen,
zu ihrer Mailanfrage vom 03.Dezember 2006 konnten wir folgenden Sachverhalt
ermitteln:

Einen Gartenweg gibt und gab es in Hannover nicht.

Sollte hier jedoch ein Übermittlungsfehler der Schreibweise vorliegen,
können wir mitteilen, dass unter den umbenannten Straßen in Hannover ein
Gärtnerweg geführt wird, der jedoch erst 1932 so benannt wurde und 1961 in
Freundallee umbenannt wurde. Des Weiteren gab es mehrere Gartenstraße.
Zwei vor 1922 benannte Gartenstraßen lagen in den damals eigenständigen
Gemeinden Misburg und Anderten und wurden erst im Jahr 1974 nach Hannover
eingemeindet und anschließend umbenannt in Oisseler Straße (Anderten) und
Lange Rade(Misburg).

Andere Gartenstraßen wurden erst nach 1922 benannt. Ebenso die heute noch
bestehende Gartenstraße in Ahlem (1955 benannt).
So verbleibt die noch bestehende Gartenstraße in der Oststadt, die bereits
1852 benannt wurde. Durch Ausbau der Berliner Allee und weitere Umbauten in
diesem Bereich gibt es die ehemalige Hausnummer 6 dort nicht mehr. Diese lag
im Bereich des heutigen Spielplatzes, welcher zwischen der Gartenstraße und
der Berliner Allee liegt.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
S. Poppe

Landeshauptstadt Hannover
Geoinformation
Straßenbenennung und Hausnummernfestsetzung
Rudolf-Hillebrecht-Platz 1
30159 Hannover

Tel.: 0511/168-44548
Fax: 0511/168-46575
Mail: Sabine.Poppe(a)Hannover-Stadt.de



Re: [HN] Gartenweg Response from Landeshauptstadt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/06 14:54:27
From: Holger Bremer <holgerbremer(a)googlemail.com>

Sehr geehrte Frau Poppe,

wie ich dem Adressbuch Hannover 1928 entnehmen kann, gab es in Hannover sehr
wohl einen Gartenweg und zwar in Limmer zwischen der Wunstorferstr. und der
Weidestr.

Viele Grüße

Holger Bremer


Am 06.12.06 schrieb Allen T. <athn(a)alltel.net>:

Would someone fluent in German be so kind as to translate this or give
the highlights please. As I understand it, from doing an online
translation, the important information is that there were 2 streets with
the name of Gartenweg in them in 1922. But I may have misunderstood.

Best regards,
Allen


Sehr geehrter Herr Thipgen,

zu ihrer Mailanfrage vom 03.Dezember 2006 konnten wir folgenden
Sachverhalt
ermitteln:

Einen Gartenweg gibt und gab es in Hannover nicht.

Sollte hier jedoch ein Übermittlungsfehler der Schreibweise vorliegen,
können wir mitteilen, dass unter den umbenannten Straßen in Hannover ein
Gärtnerweg geführt wird, der jedoch erst 1932 so benannt wurde und 1961 in
Freundallee umbenannt wurde.

Des Weiteren gab es mehrere Gartenstraße.

Zwei vor 1922 benannte Gartenstraßen lagen in den damals eigenständigen
Gemeinden Misburg und Anderten und wurden erst im Jahr 1974 nach Hannover
eingemeindet und anschließend umbenannt in Oisseler Straße (Anderten) und
Lange Rade(Misburg).

Andere Gartenstraßen wurden erst nach 1922 benannt. Ebenso die heute noch
bestehende Gartenstraße in Ahlem (1955 benannt).

So verbleibt die noch bestehende Gartenstraße in der Oststadt, die bereits
1852 benannt wurde. Durch Ausbau der Berliner Allee und weitere Umbauten
in
diesem Bereich gibt es die ehemalige Hausnummer 6 dort nicht mehr. Diese
lag
im Bereich des heutigen Spielplatzes, welcher zwischen der Gartenstraße
und
der Berliner Allee liegt.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
S. Poppe

Landeshauptstadt Hannover
Geoinformation
Straßenbenennung und Hausnummernfestsetzung
Rudolf-Hillebrecht-Platz 1
30159 Hannover

Tel.: 0511/168-44548
Fax: 0511/168-46575
Mail: Sabine.Poppe(a)Hannover-Stadt.de


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[HN] Günt(h)er in Hannover

Date: 2006/12/06 14:58:56
From: Hintiberi <hintiberi(a)googlemail.com>

Guten Tag liebe Listler,

mein Name ist Jens und ich wohne in Paderborn. Seit etwa zehn Jahren befasse
ich mich nun mal mehr, mal weniger mit Ahnen- und Familienforschung und bin
mit meinen Recherchen immer auch auf der Suche nach Nebenlinien. Die, um die
es mir hier geht, führt mich nach Hannover:

Die Schwester meiner Uroma, Gertrud geb. Schulte (*etwa 1870-85), heiratete
den Eisenbahnarbeiter Hermann Günt(h)er in Hannover. Soweit ich weiß, ist
dieser Hermann Günther wohl bei der Bahn tödlich verunglückt.

Hermann und Gertrud Günt(h)er hatten, so erzählte mir mein Großonkel,
folgende Kinder:
Maria (?), Hermann, Franz, Elisabeth, Georg
(für die Richtigkeit kann ich allerdings nicht garantieren)

Genaueres weiß ich nun nur noch über den Sohn Franz, der ca. 1896 geboren
sein muß (plus/minus ein Jahr).

Franz soll seinerzeit (also zumindest in den 30er-40er Jahren) in Hannover
das größte Elektrogeschäft geführt haben: "Elektro-Günt(h)er-Radio".

Er war, soweit ich weiß, zweimal verheiratet, aus der einen Ehe, die
wahrscheinlich die erste war, stammt mind. ein Sohn namens Georg.
Aus der anderen Ehe mit Johanna (genannt: "Hantchen") stammt mind. eine
Tochter: Johanna (genannt: "Hanna").

Franz wohnte mit seiner Familie etwa 12km außerhalb von Hannover, wo genau
weiß ich leider nicht.
Er muß ein recht großes Haus gehabt haben, das er nach seiner Frau "Villa
Hantchen" nannte. Er hatte wohl auch einige Tierstallungen.


Genaueres weiß ich leider nicht - aber vielleicht kann mir ja jemand von
euch weiterhelfen. Also wenn jemand Informationen über die Günt(h)ers aus
Hannover hat, oder auch über das Elektrogeschäft etwas weiß, ich freue mich
über jeden Hinweis! :)

Viele Grüße
-Jens

Re: [HN] Gartenweg Response from Landeshauptstadt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/06 15:03:53
From: Jurgen Schwiening <schwiening(a)tesco.net>

The letter says briefly, that there was and is no Gartenweg in Hannover.
Should there be a spelling error we can tell you that there has been a
Gärtnerweg from 1932 to 61. There are however several Gartenstasse. Before
1922 there were two, one in Misburg and one in Anderten. These places were
incorporated into Hannover in 1974. The streets have since been renamed. The
other Gartenstrassen have been named after 1922 including the Gartenstrasse
in Ahlem(since 1955).
This leaves the existing Gartenstrasse in the Oststadt (Eastern part of
Hannover)which has been in existence since 1852. Due to rebuilding Nr 6 no
longer exists. It was where the playground is today between Gartenstrasse
and Berliner Allee.

That's it. Pleased to have been of some small assistance.
Jürgen Schwiening, Schwiening Language School, Market Bosworth, England.

-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Allen T.
Sent: 06 December 2006 13:41
To: Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Gartenweg Response from Landeshauptstadt Hannover

Would someone fluent in German be so kind as to translate this or give 
the highlights please. As I understand it, from doing an online 
translation, the important information is that there were 2 streets with 
the name of Gartenweg in them in 1922. But I may have misunderstood.

Best regards,
Allen


Sehr geehrter Herr Thipgen, 

zu ihrer Mailanfrage vom 03.Dezember 2006 konnten wir folgenden Sachverhalt
ermitteln:

Einen Gartenweg gibt und gab es in Hannover nicht.

Sollte hier jedoch ein Übermittlungsfehler der Schreibweise vorliegen,
können wir mitteilen, dass unter den umbenannten Straßen in Hannover ein
Gärtnerweg geführt wird, der jedoch erst 1932 so benannt wurde und 1961 in
Freundallee umbenannt wurde. 

Des Weiteren gab es mehrere Gartenstraße. 

Zwei vor 1922 benannte Gartenstraßen lagen in den damals eigenständigen
Gemeinden Misburg und Anderten und wurden erst im Jahr 1974 nach Hannover
eingemeindet und anschließend umbenannt in Oisseler Straße (Anderten) und
Lange Rade(Misburg).

Andere Gartenstraßen wurden erst nach 1922 benannt. Ebenso die heute noch
bestehende Gartenstraße in Ahlem (1955 benannt). 

So verbleibt die noch bestehende Gartenstraße in der Oststadt, die bereits
1852 benannt wurde. Durch Ausbau der Berliner Allee und weitere Umbauten in
diesem Bereich gibt es die ehemalige Hausnummer 6 dort nicht mehr. Diese lag
im Bereich des heutigen Spielplatzes, welcher zwischen der Gartenstraße und
der Berliner Allee liegt. 

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
S. Poppe

Landeshauptstadt Hannover
Geoinformation
Straßenbenennung und Hausnummernfestsetzung
Rudolf-Hillebrecht-Platz 1
30159 Hannover

Tel.: 0511/168-44548
Fax: 0511/168-46575
Mail: Sabine.Poppe(a)Hannover-Stadt.de


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Re: [HN] Gartenweg Response from Landeshauptstadt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/06 15:17:50
From: Holger Bremer <holgerbremer(a)googlemail.com>

Hello´, no there is a spelling error.  The Gartenweg is in a Part of
Hannover called Limmer. It may be that Limmer was not part of the city of
Hannover in 1922.

The Gartenweg is a short street between Wunstorferstr. and Heidestrasse

Gruß Holger


Am 06.12.06 schrieb Jurgen Schwiening <schwiening(a)tesco.net>:

The letter says briefly, that there was and is no Gartenweg in Hannover.
Should there be a spelling error we can tell you that there has been a
Gärtnerweg from 1932 to 61. There are however several Gartenstasse. Before
1922 there were two, one in Misburg and one in Anderten. These places were
incorporated into Hannover in 1974. The streets have since been renamed.
The
other Gartenstrassen have been named after 1922 including the
Gartenstrasse
in Ahlem(since 1955).
This leaves the existing Gartenstrasse in the Oststadt (Eastern part of
Hannover)which has been in existence since 1852. Due to rebuilding Nr 6 no
longer exists. It was where the playground is today between Gartenstrasse
and Berliner Allee.

That's it. Pleased to have been of some small assistance.
Jürgen Schwiening, Schwiening Language School, Market Bosworth, England.

-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Allen T.
Sent: 06 December 2006 13:41
To: Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Gartenweg Response from Landeshauptstadt Hannover

Would someone fluent in German be so kind as to translate this or give
the highlights please. As I understand it, from doing an online
translation, the important information is that there were 2 streets with
the name of Gartenweg in them in 1922. But I may have misunderstood.

Best regards,
Allen


Sehr geehrter Herr Thipgen,

zu ihrer Mailanfrage vom 03.Dezember 2006 konnten wir folgenden
Sachverhalt
ermitteln:

Einen Gartenweg gibt und gab es in Hannover nicht.

Sollte hier jedoch ein Übermittlungsfehler der Schreibweise vorliegen,
können wir mitteilen, dass unter den umbenannten Straßen in Hannover ein
Gärtnerweg geführt wird, der jedoch erst 1932 so benannt wurde und 1961 in
Freundallee umbenannt wurde.

Des Weiteren gab es mehrere Gartenstraße.

Zwei vor 1922 benannte Gartenstraßen lagen in den damals eigenständigen
Gemeinden Misburg und Anderten und wurden erst im Jahr 1974 nach Hannover
eingemeindet und anschließend umbenannt in Oisseler Straße (Anderten) und
Lange Rade(Misburg).

Andere Gartenstraßen wurden erst nach 1922 benannt. Ebenso die heute noch
bestehende Gartenstraße in Ahlem (1955 benannt).

So verbleibt die noch bestehende Gartenstraße in der Oststadt, die bereits
1852 benannt wurde. Durch Ausbau der Berliner Allee und weitere Umbauten
in
diesem Bereich gibt es die ehemalige Hausnummer 6 dort nicht mehr. Diese
lag
im Bereich des heutigen Spielplatzes, welcher zwischen der Gartenstraße
und
der Berliner Allee liegt.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
S. Poppe

Landeshauptstadt Hannover
Geoinformation
Straßenbenennung und Hausnummernfestsetzung
Rudolf-Hillebrecht-Platz 1
30159 Hannover

Tel.: 0511/168-44548
Fax: 0511/168-46575
Mail: Sabine.Poppe(a)Hannover-Stadt.de


______________________________________________

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Re: [HN] KGL records at Record Office Kew England

Date: 2006/12/06 17:08:09
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

Hello Terry,
thank you for looking.
I search for Wilhelm Lott, he lived about 1750, but it could be a connection to the Lott's you listed.
Thank you again,
Werner


> A was the list of soldiers present at Waterloo on 18th June 1815.
> [record reference WO12/11949 and W100/15b]

> B was the list of soldiers taken from Muster rolls mostly it seems from
> 1808, except for the Hussars, which were from 1814. [WO25 and WO 42]

> Lott   There were two entries ;

> List B                         George Lott                  Sgt 8th
> Company, 7th Line Battalion KGL
> List A                         Frederick  Lott              Pte  3rd
> Line Battalion KGL



[HN] Information DIGITALIiserung von Kirchenbüch ern

Date: 2006/12/06 17:38:05
From: Klaus Riecken <klaus(a)riecken-online.de>

Liebe Listenteilnehmer,

  COMPUTERGENEALOGIE
                MAGAZIN FUER FAMILIENFORSCHUNG


                    NEWSLETTER NR. 12/2006
http://www.computergenealogie.de


ist ein interessanter Artikel über Digitalisierung von Kirchenbüchern zu entnehmken, leider keine Stellungnahme für denNordelbingischen Raum.
http://www.ekd.de/archive/deutsch/Hannover_Bericht.htm

Gruß
Klaus
www.Riecken-online.de


[HN] Wikipedia:Pressemitteilungen/500000 deutschsprachige Artikel

Date: 2006/12/06 17:43:37
From: Klaus Riecken <klaus(a)riecken-online.de>

Liebe Listenleser,

was passiert mit der Zeit mit meinen genealogischen Ergebnissen/Arbeiten?

Eine weitere Möglichkeit tut sich auf.
Ich verweise auf:


http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Pressemitteilungen/500000_deutschsprachige_Artikel


Aus einer Wikipedia-Pressemitteilung.

Viele Grüße

Klaus
www.Riecken-online.de


Re: [HN] Gartenweg Response from Landeshauptstadt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/06 17:53:26
From: Wilfried Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"Holger Bremer" <holgerbremer(a)googlemail.com> schrieb:
> Hello´, no there is a spelling error.  The Gartenweg is in a Part of
> Hannover called Limmer. It may be that Limmer was not part of the city of
> Hannover in 1922.
> 
Hallo zusammen,  Limmer wurde am 1.4.1909 nach Linden eingemeindet und dann mit diesem zusammen am 1.1.1920 nach Hannover. Siehe  www.linden-entdecken.de  , dann -> Impressionen -> Geschichte.

Freundliche Grüße
Wilfried (Petersen)


Re: [HN] Gartenweg Response from Landeshauptstadt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/06 20:09:13
From: Holger Bremer <holgerbremer(a)googlemail.com>

Hello,
Gartenweg is not a spelling error. Here are the habitants of Gartenweg Nr.
6:



Mätz Rangiermeister a.D
Mätz Betr. Asst
Andrä Schlosser
Beißmann Töpfer
Dörschel, Frau
Göhring Kürschner
Grewe Werkmeister
Groß Kantinenwirt
Henze Arbeiter
Kielhorn Schuhmachermeister
Lambert Werkmeister
Papenberg Kesselschmied
Reum Schlosser
Schulzer, Frau


Am 06.12.06 schrieb Wilfried Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>:

"Holger Bremer" <holgerbremer(a)googlemail.com> schrieb:
> Hello´, no there is a spelling error.  The Gartenweg is in a Part of
> Hannover called Limmer. It may be that Limmer was not part of the city
of
> Hannover in 1922.
>
Hallo zusammen,  Limmer wurde am 1.4.1909 nach Linden eingemeindet und
dann mit diesem zusammen am 1.1.1920 nach Hannover. Siehe
www.linden-entdecken.de  , dann -> Impressionen -> Geschichte.

Freundliche Grüße
Wilfried (Petersen)

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Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
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Re: [HN] Günt(h)er in Hannover

Date: 2006/12/06 20:26:51
From: Erbensucher <Erbensucher(a)aol.com>

Seit einigen Tagen habe ich eine DVD mit dem Reichstelefonbuch von 1942.  
Darin ist der Eintrag: Günther, F., Radiobed., Linden Limmerstr. 55  enthalten. 
Das dürfte das damalige Ladenlokal von Franz Günther im Stadtteil  Linden 
gewesen sein.
 
Gruß
 
Gunter Jüchter

Re: [HN] Günther in Hannover

Date: 2006/12/06 22:04:01
From: Hintiberi <hintiberi(a)googlemail.com>

Herzlichen Dank, Gunter!!

Ja, ich bin ziemlich sicher, daß das das Ladenlokal gewesen ist.
Ich habe gerade nach der Limmerstraße gegoogelt, heute befindet sich dort
ein Naturkostladen.

Jetzt, wo ich die Adresse habe, kann ich sicher weiteres herausfinden -
besten Dank nochmals und viele Grüße!!

-Jens

[HN] Wenk, Wenke, Wenken, Wiegels usw

Date: 2006/12/06 22:45:35
From: thorsten <t.minse(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Liebe Forscherfreunde

wer forscht in der gegend von Tönnhausen, Drage, Drennhausen usw. ..... 

Ich suche nach folgenden Familien. WENK, WENKE, WENKEN, GÖDKEN, GÖTJEN, GÄTJEN, WIEGELS


bin da jetzt teilweise bis 1650 zurück

lieben gruß
thorsten aus Köhn

[HN] WWW.Genealogiede: So wehrt man sich

Date: 2006/12/07 00:33:35
From: Reinhard J. Freytag <Reinhard.Freytag(a)t-online.de>

Liebe Listies,

zu Ihrer/Eurer Kenntnis der folgende Beitrag aus der
Posen-Liste


___________________________________________________
In der Genealogie ist ein Schritt rückwärts
ein Schritt vorwärts

Schöne Grüsse aus unserer
Universitätsstadt Göttingen
Reinhard J. Freytag
genealogie(a)freytag-immo.de


-----Original Message-----
> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:30:27 +0100
> Subject: [Posen-L] Versuch der Abzocke durch
"genealogie.de"
> From: "Reiner Kerp" 
> To: "Posen-l" 

> Liebe Forscherfreunde,
> in den vergangenen Wochen gab es für einige von uns
ziemlichen Ärger
> mit den angeblich so tollen Angeboten von
> 
> "genealogie.de".
> 
> Wie man damit umgehen sollte, ist jetzt im neuesten
NEWSLETTER NR.
> 12/2006 des Vereins für COMPUTERGENEALOGIE zu lesen
> 
> COMPUTERGENEALOGIE
> MAGAZIN FUER FAMILIENFORSCHUNG
> http://www.computergenealogie.de :
> 
> Auszug:
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------

> ================================
> INTERNET
> ================================
> 
> Genealogie.de
> Rechnung in den Papierkorb
> 
> Wenn eine Website Genealogie.de heißt, klingt das
vielversprechend.
> Aber das kann täuschen. Die neue Website kommt auf den
ersten Blick
> elegant und anspruchsvoll ("Wissenschaftliche Datenbank
für Namens-
> und Ahnenforschung") daher, auf den zweiten Blick aber
ziemlich plump.
> Die Besucher werden geduzt und mit Verlockungen
umschmeichelt, die
> erfahrene Familienforscher kalt lassen. Aber die Website
bietet noch
> mehr als schnöde Daten: "Starte jetzt Deine eigene Namens-
oder
> Ahnenforschung und gewinne ein großes Familienfest oder
5.000,00 Euro
> in Bar!" 
> Die meisten Links führen zu einem Anmeldeformular, mit
dessen Hilfe
> man u. a. die "wissenschaftliche Datenbank . erweitern"
und immerhin
> noch "93.000 Namen & Bedeutungen einsehen" kann. Wer sich
anmeldet,
> ohne die "AGB & Verbraucherinformationen &
Datenschutzbestimmungen" zu
> lesen, findet den eigentlichen Zweck der Website: "Der
Nutzer ist zur
> Entrichtung des einmaligen Nutzungsentgelts von 60 Euro
verpflichtet."
> Leider haben schon einige Familienforscher geklickt ohne
zu lesen.
> 
> Einige beriefen sich, enttäuscht von der Gegenleistung,
auf Punkt 5
> der AGB: "Sie können Ihre Vertragserklärung innerhalb von
einem Monat
> ohne Angaben von Gründen . widerrufen." Die Antwort von
Genealogie.de
> lautete allerdings: "Ein Widerruf dieses Vertrags ist
nicht mehr
> möglich. Gem. § 312d Abs. 3 Nr. 2 erlischt das Recht zum
Widerruf,
> wenn der Verbraucher die Ausführung der Dienstleistung
selbst
> veranlasst hat." Unter anderem habe man ja auch schon eine
> Ahnenhomepage angelegt. Die Firma verweist darauf, dass
man "klar und
> deutlich sowohl in den von Ihnen als gelesen bestätigten
Allgemeinen
> Geschäftsbedingungen als auch vor Anmeldung über den Preis
der
> Dienstleistung informiert" habe. Genau das ist aber nicht
der Fall -
> die Information war gut versteckt. "Das ist eine Täuschung
der
> Verbraucher, deshalb muss man nicht zahlen," erklärt
Tobias Gabriel
> vom Verbraucherzentrale Bundesverband in Berlin. Man habe
auch eine
> Abmahnung an die Betreiberin der Website geschickt. Die
> Verbraucherschützer haben auch einen Musterbrief zur
Antwort auf die
> unberechtigten Rechnungen formuliert; er ist auf
> http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/wiki/Genealogie.de zu finden.
Von dem
> Paragraphen-Geschwurbel in den Briefen der
Website-Betreiber sollte
> man sich nicht einschüchtern lassen.
> 
> Die Süddeutsche Zeitung berichtete kürzlich über eine
Häufung
> ähnlicher Fälle (z. B. lebenserwartung.de), bei auf diese
Weise
> Gebühren gefordert wurden - ebenso unberechtigt.
> 
> Einige verärgerte "Kunden" von Genealogie.de haben sich in
letzter
> Zeit bei Genealogie-Service.de beklagt, dem Betreiber von
> Ahnenforschung.net und Verlag der Computergenealogie. Aber
> Genealogie-Service.de hat mit Genealogie.de und der
AGB-Falle rein gar
> nichts zu tun! (re)
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------

> 
> Gruß,
> 
> Reiner (Kerp)
> 
> Betreuer der Posen-l 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Posen-l mailing list
> Posen-l(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/posen-l
> 
> 




[HN] Suche nach "overstette"

Date: 2006/12/07 10:37:55
From: Esther van Rems-Dijkstra <esthervanrems(a)gmail.com>

Hi,

I will write in English since my German in writing is poor (I make too many
mistakes) but I can read German without any problem.

In my search for anchestors I found:

Gerrit Coert Steffenhagen born 1715 in OVERSTETTE in Hannover area. I can't
find it anywhere, does it excist? Or maybe the Dutch wrote it wrong and
should the last part be STADTE in stead of Stette.

Can anyone help me??

Esther van Rems
Netherlands

--
Get Firefox!

[HN] Suche nach "overstette"

Date: 2006/12/07 10:41:55
From: Esther van Rems-Dijkstra <esthervanrems(a)gmail.com>

Hi,

I will write in English since my German in writing is poor (I make too many
mistakes) but I can read German without any problem.

In my search for anchestors I found:

Gerrit Coert Steffenhagen born 1715 in OVERSTETTE in Hannover area. I can't
find it anywhere, does it excist? Or maybe the Dutch wrote it wrong and
should the last part be STADTE in stead of Stette.

Can anyone help me??

Esther van Rems
Netherlands

--
Get Firefox!

--
Get Firefox!

[HN] Kirchenbücher von Lemke, Marl, Uchte, Hedewede

Date: 2006/12/07 12:41:23
From: STURMA Juergen <Juergen.STURMA(a)efsa.europa.eu>

Sehr geehrter Leser und Forscher,
 
mein Hauptforschunggebiet liegt im nördlichen Kreis Minden, wobei sich grenzübergreifende Verbindungen ergeben haben. Ich müsste nun wissen, wo sich die Kirchenbücher von Uchte, Marl, Lemke und Heddewede befinden und welchen Zeitraum sie abdecken. Ich weiß, dass Teile dieses Bereiches bis 1816 als Lehen zu Hessen gehörten, hoffe aber trotzdem, dass diese Liste zuständig ist.
Mein besonderes Interesse gilt dem FN Kanning oder Canning, der (nach Meyerholtz, FN in Hoya und Diepholz) in den o.g. Orten vom 16. Jahrhundert an vorkommt.
 
Herzlichen Dank im Voraus.
 
Jürgen Sturma
 
 
**********************************
Jürgen Sturma
Assistant Scientific Co-ordinator
European Food Safety Authority
Pesticide Risk Assessment Peer Review (PRAPeR)

Largo N. Palli 5/A
I-43100 Parma
Tel: +39 0521 036 655
Fax: +39 0521 036 755
Email:  juergen.sturma(a)efsa.europa.eu  
Website: http://www.efsa.europa.eu <http://www.efsa.europa.eu/> 

please note that the e-mail address and the web address have changed

 

______________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all viruses.

[HN] Abonnement beenden.

Date: 2006/12/07 14:32:08
From: HERRON <ingher(a)gmx.de>

Guten Tag Listen-Admin!

Ich habe jetzt schon wiederholt mein Abonnement der Hannover Liste
korrekt gekündigt. (Ich komme gern bald wieder, nur im Moment ist es
mir zuviel).

Auf der website heisst es dann auch, dass von der Abmeldung Kenntnis
genommen wurde, aber eine e-mail Bestätigung erfolgt nicht und ich
bekomme weiterhin die Listenbeiträge.

Was läuft da fehl?

Danke.
Freundlichst
Ingrid

[HN] [compgend-L] Mal was zum Schmunzeln (fwd)

Date: 2006/12/07 15:50:29
From: Wilfried Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

---Ursprüngliche Nachricht---
From: "ErGen Oster" <oster.genealogie(a)tiscali.de>
To: "comp-genealogy" <compgend-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [compgend-L] Mal was zum Schmunzeln

***Nachricht vom Weihnachtsmann***

Also Kinder, ich bin jetzt im Urlaub. Aller Vorrausicht nach bin ich bis
Weihnachten wieder da, aber die Vorbereitungen darauf sollten natürlich
jetzt schon loslaufen:

Status:
Wie Weihnachten 2005 im Internet gezeigt hat, heißt Weihnachten nicht mehr
Weihnachten, sondern X-mas, also muss der Weihnachtsmann entsprechend auch
ab jetzt X-man heißen!

Da X-mas 2006 quasi schon vor der Tür steht, ist es spätestens seit Oktober
höchste Zeit, mit der Weihnachtsvorbereitung zu beginnen - Verzeihung, seit
Oktober ist es höchste Zeit, mit dem Weihnachts-roll-out zu starten und die
X-mas-Mailing-Aktion just in time vorzubereiten.

Hinweis:
Die Kick-Off-Veranstaltung (früher 1. Advent) für die diesjährige SANCRO
(Santa Claus Road Show) findet bereits am 27. November 2006 statt.

Daher wurde das offizielle come-together des Organizing Commitees unter
Vorsitz des CIO (Christmas Illumination Officer) abgehalten.

Erstmals haben wir ein Projekt-Status-Meeting vorgeschaltet, bei dem eine in
Workshops entwickelte to-do-Liste und einheitliche Job Descriptions erstellt
wurden. Dadurch sollen klare Verantwortungsbereiche, eine powervolle
Performance des Kundenevents und optimierte Geschenk-Allocations geschaffen
werden, was wiederum den Service-Level erhöht und außerdem hilft, X-mas als
Brandname global zu implementieren.

Dieses Meeting diente zugleich dazu, mit dem Co-Head des Global Christmas
Markets (früher Knecht Ruprecht) die Ablauforganisation abzustimmen, die
Geschenk-Distribution an die zuständigen private-Schenking-Center
sicherzustellen und die Zielgruppen klar zu definieren. Erstmals sollen auch
sog. Geschenk-Units über das Internet angeboten werden.

Die Service Provider (Engel, Elfen und Rentiere) wurden bereits via
conference call virtuell informiert und die core-competence vergeben. Ein
Bündel von Incentives und ein separates Team-Building-Event an geeigneter
location sollen den Motivationslevel erhöhen und gleichzeitig helfen, eine
einheitliche corporate culture samt identity zu entwickeln..

Der Vorschlag, jedem Engel einen coach zur Seite zu stellen, wurde aus
Budgetgründen zunächst gecancelled. Stattdessen wurde auf einer zusätzlichen
Client Management Conference beschlossen, in einem testmarket als
Pilotprojekt eine Hotline für kurzfristige Weihnachtswünsche einzurichten,
um den added value für die Beschenkten zu erhöhen. Durch ein ausgeklügeltes
Management Information System (MIST) ist auch benchmark-orientiertes
Controlling für jedes private Schenking-Center möglich.

Nachdem ein neues Literaturkonzept und das layout-Format von externen
Consultants (Osterhasen Associates) definiert wurde, konnte auch schon das
diesjährige Goldene Buch (Golden Book Release 2006.1) erstellt werden.. Es
erscheint als Flyer, ergänzt um ein Leaflet und einen Newsletter für das
laufende updating. Hochauflagige lowcost-giveaways dienen zudem als teaser
und flankierende Marketingmaßnahmen. Ferner wurde durch intensives
brainstorming ein Konsens über das Mission Statement gefunden.

Es lautet:
"Let's keep the candles burning" und ersetzt das bisherige "Frohe
Weihnachten".

X-man hatte zwar anfangs Bedenken angesichts des corporate redesigns. Er
akzeptierte aber letztlich den progressiven Consulting-Ansatz, auch im
Hinblick auf den Shareholder-value, und würdigte das Know-how seiner
Investor-Relation-Manager.

Na dann,

merry X-mas

Erhard (Oster) 
mailto:oster.genealogie(a)tiscali.de



___________________________________________________________
Tipps rund um die Mailingliste:
http://compgen.genealogy.net/maillist.htm
Mitgliederdatenbank: https://db.genealogy.net/vereine/CompGen
An-/Abmelden und Zustellung bei Urlaub aussetzen unter
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/CompGenD-L


------


Re: [HN] KGL records at Record Office Kew England

Date: 2006/12/07 16:03:19
From: Joannah Sharratt <joannah(a)sharratt594.fsnet.co.uk>

Terry, I am most grateful to you for searching for my Haulaufderhyde with variants which must have taken you some time. A favour truly granted because a "no find" is as valuable as a find isn't it?!
   Now enjoy your Christmas!
Jo
----- Original Message ----- From: "terry white" <terryak.white(a)virgin.net>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:15 PM
Subject: [HN] KGL records at Record Office Kew England


5.12.06

Hi there,

For those of you  who asked for me to look up KGL soldiers  in the list
at the National Record Office,

I went up today, as I found that I had some other things to research,
and have gone through the book on the Kings German Legion  in the
library there.

Before I list what I found, I should explain that there are 3 lists in
the book, which was produced by Len Metzner of the Anglo-German Family
History Society.

I'll number them A B and C so that you can see where the  entries that I
found came from.

A was the list of soldiers present at Waterloo on 18th June 1815.
[record reference WO12/11949 and W100/15b]

B was the list of soldiers taken from Muster rolls mostly it seems from
1808, except for the Hussars, which were from 1814. [WO25 and WO 42]

C is a list from Hanover Archive.  It is  a shorter list, and does not
explain its origin in any more detail.


Most of the following come from list B.

I could find no Gansberg in any of the lists. Nor Morlot or Morlo.  In
list A, there was a   Josephus Morro Pte  3rd Line Battalion KGL

Nor could I find a Wolfien in any of the lists.

There were no Brummunds either. There were Brummers, and if  that would
be any good, Ron, I could go back some time and list those.

Lott   There were two entries ;

List B                         George Lott                  Sgt 8th
Company, 7th Line Battalion KGL
List A                         Frederick  Lott              Pte  3rd
Line Battalion KGL

Haultaufderhyde   I could find no members of this family name listed,
and I tried looking for variants but couldn't find any either.

Hattorf however, was  there, with variants:

List A                           Hans Hattorf        Capt 1st Light
Dragoons KGL
                                   Geo. Hattorff        Severely
wounded 1st Light Dragoons KGL

List B                            Hattorf  George     Cornet  8th Troop
1st Heavy Dragoons KGL
                                                George     Lieut    8th
Troop 1st Heavy Dragoons KGL
                                                Hans        Capt
3rd Troop  2nd Heavy Dragoons KGL
                                   Hattorff   August      Sgt      1st
Troop 1st Light Dragoons KGL
                                                August      Sgt Major
10th Troop  1st Hussars

and I thought I would include this as it might be an error in
transcription:

List B                             Hastorff   John        Pte  3rd
Company 3rd Line Battalion

Burgdorf    No sign of a Julius Wilhelm, I'm afraid, Max, but I  have
listed the names that were there, with variants.

List C                           Burgdorf  Peter age  22 of Luneburg
List B                           Burgdorff   Henry Pte  6th Company 2nd
Line Battalion KGL
                                                  Peter  Pte   5th
Company 5th Line Battalion KGL
List A                           Burgdorff John,  Bugler, 1st Light
Battalion KGL

Fehlig  There were no Fehligs, but there were  FEHLINGS . I wrote them
down Bob, even though  you thought it too early for your ancestor, and
this may not be relevant. But it was only four names. For reference

List B                             Fehling  Johan    Pte 1st Troop  2nd
Light Dragoons KGL
                                                 John      Pte 1st
Troop  2nd Hussars KGL
                                                 Jno        Pte 1st
Company  1st Light Infantry Battalion
List A                             Fehling   John     Pte 1st Light
Battalion      KILLED


Finally Hillmer   in various variants,  had 11 entries.

List A                             Hillmer, Hans  Wm    Pte   3rd
Hussars KGL
                                                 Henry           Sgt
3rd Hussars KGL
List B                             Hillmer   Christian      Pte    4th
Troop   1st Light Dragoons KGL
                                                  Francies      Farrier
4rd Company  KGL Art       ( I copied what this said,  I guess Art means
"Artillery")
                                                  H Wilh         Pte
4th Troop 3rd Hussars KGL
                                                  Heinr.          Cpl
4th Troop 3rd Hussars  KGL
                                                  Henry          Pte
5th Company  1st Light Infantry Battalion KGL
                                     Hillmers  Heinrich      Pte   4th
Troop 3rd Light Dragoons KGL
                                     Hillwers   John          Pte   1st
Company  4th Line Battalion KGL
                                     Hilmers   Johann       Pte    5th
Troop 1st Heavy Dragoons KGL
                                     Hilmker   Christopher Pte    5th
Troop 1st Heavy Dragoons KGL

I hope that something here is of some use to any or all of you.  I also
hope that I haven't missed anybody's request out.


Terry











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Re: [HN] Kirchenbücher von Lemke, Marl, Uchte, Hedewede

Date: 2006/12/07 16:10:22
From: Wilfried Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"STURMA Juergen" <Juergen.STURMA(a)efsa.europa.eu> schrieb:
> Sehr geehrter Leser und Forscher,
>  
> mein Hauptforschunggebiet liegt im nördlichen Kreis Minden, wobei sich grenzübergreifende Verbindungen ergeben haben. Ich müsste nun wissen, wo sich die Kirchenbücher von Uchte, Marl, Lemke und Heddewede befinden und welchen Zeitraum sie abdecken. Ich weiß, dass Teile dieses Bereiches bis 1816 als Lehen zu Hessen gehörten, hoffe aber trotzdem, dass diese Liste zuständig ist.
> Mein besonderes Interesse gilt dem FN Kanning oder Canning, der (nach Meyerholtz, FN in Hoya und Diepholz) in den o.g. Orten vom 16. Jahrhundert an vorkommt.
>  

Hallo Herr Sturma,

die dürften alle im Kirchenbuchamt Hannover (als Microfiches) liegen:
www.kirche-Hannover.de/kirchenbuchamt/

Lemke gehört wohl zu Marklohe und Marl zu Lemförde. Heddewede konnte ich leider nicht finden.

Viel Erfolg und freundliche Grüße,
Wilfried Petersen


Re: [HN] Kirchenbücher von Lemke, Marl, Uchte, Hedewede

Date: 2006/12/07 16:26:56
From: von Husen <von-husen(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Jürgen,

die ev--luth. Einwohner der Ortschaften Marl und Marl-Hagewede gehören zur
Pfarrgemeinde Burlage. Die Originale der Kirchenbücher befinden sich im
Pfarrbüro dieser Pfarrgemeinde zu Hüde-Sandbrink. Verfilmungen sind in der
Superintendentur in Diepholz einzusehen.

Ich habe die Genealogie der Familien Kanning, die bereits im 16. Jahrhundert
in mehreren Zweigen urkundlich erscheinen, vom 16. Jahrhundert bis in die
1730er Jahre erforscht. Wenn du Auskünfte zu bestimmten Personen benötigst,
die in diesem Zeitraum gelebt haben, will ich dir gerne behilflich sein.

Gruß aus Lemförde am Dümmer See

Ludger von Husen

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] Im Auftrag von Wilfried Petersen
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2006 16:09
An: Hannover-L
Betreff: Re: [HN]Kirchenbücher von Lemke, Marl, Uchte, Hedewede

"STURMA Juergen" <Juergen.STURMA(a)efsa.europa.eu> schrieb:
> Sehr geehrter Leser und Forscher,
>  
> mein Hauptforschunggebiet liegt im nördlichen Kreis Minden, wobei sich
grenzübergreifende Verbindungen ergeben haben. Ich müsste nun wissen, wo
sich die Kirchenbücher von Uchte, Marl, Lemke und Heddewede befinden und
welchen Zeitraum sie abdecken. Ich weiß, dass Teile dieses Bereiches bis
1816 als Lehen zu Hessen gehörten, hoffe aber trotzdem, dass diese Liste
zuständig ist.
> Mein besonderes Interesse gilt dem FN Kanning oder Canning, der (nach
Meyerholtz, FN in Hoya und Diepholz) in den o.g. Orten vom 16. Jahrhundert
an vorkommt.
>  

Hallo Herr Sturma,

die dürften alle im Kirchenbuchamt Hannover (als Microfiches) liegen:
www.kirche-Hannover.de/kirchenbuchamt/

Lemke gehört wohl zu Marklohe und Marl zu Lemförde. Heddewede konnte ich
leider nicht finden.

Viel Erfolg und freundliche Grüße,
Wilfried Petersen

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[HN] FEHRMANN, Adolf

Date: 2006/12/07 16:35:58
From: Bernd H . Siebert <berndhsiebert(a)t-online.de>

Liebe Liste!

Ich war in den letzen Tagen leider von der Kommunikation per e-mail abgeschnitten. Es sind keine e-mail an mich durchgekommen. Daher hier noch einmal meine Anfrage.

Diejenigen, die mir geantwortet hatten, bitte ich um eine erneute Mitteilung.

Danke!
Bernd


Liebe Liste!

Ich habe einen Toten-Gedenkzettel gefunden zu

Adolf Fehrmann, *14.5.1893 Hannover,
+7.5.1967  Hannover.

Gedruckt wurde der Zettel bei Otto Hartmann, Hannover.

Meines Erachtens handelt es sich bei der Sitte, Toten-Gedenkzettel
herzustellen und an die Teilnehmer der Totenmesse zu verteilen, um
einen katholischen Brauch.

Wer weiß Näheres zu dem genannten und, für mich besonders
interessant: Welche Beziehung hatte er nach Bernshausen?

Gruß
Bernd (Siebert)
Ortsheimatpfleger Bernshausen
Oberdorfstr. 4
37136 Seeburg
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Re: [HN] Suche nach "overstette"

Date: 2006/12/07 18:01:28
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Esther,

       There is a small town called Ovenstädt near Petershagen.

Good luck in your search,
Barbara




on 12/7/06 2:34 AM, Esther van Rems-Dijkstra at esthervanrems(a)gmail.com
wrote:

> Steffenhagen


Re: [HN] Suche nach "overstette"

Date: 2006/12/07 18:16:38
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Esther:

Here is what I have found. Remember there may well be others, even many others.

I think you are right
OVERSTETTE  = OVERSTEDTE
It is located south of Uelzen, just north of the town of Bodenteich on L270 Which could have been renumbered.

The parish for Overstedte was probly Bodenteich. The LDS/Mormons/Family History Center has the following:

Kirchenbuch, 1604-1963 Evangelische Kirche Bodenteich (Kr. Ülzen)

The general directions are east northeast of Hanover or
east southeast of Bremen

Gale

On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:34:46 +0100
"Esther van Rems-Dijkstra" <esthervanrems(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

I will write in English since my German in writing is poor (I make too many
mistakes) but I can read German without any problem.

In my search for anchestors I found:

Gerrit Coert Steffenhagen born 1715 in OVERSTETTE in Hannover area. I can't find it anywhere, does it excist? Or maybe the Dutch wrote it wrong and
should the last part be STADTE in stead of Stette.

Can anyone help me??

Esther van Rems
Netherlands

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Re: [HN] Suche nach "overstette"

Date: 2006/12/07 19:36:18
From: Wilfried Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net> schrieb:
> Hello Esther,
> 
>        There is a small town called Ovenstädt near Petershagen.
> 
> Good luck in your search,
> Barbara
> 
Hello Esther,

that's right, but it is not in Hannover but in Westfalen (Westphalia).

Regards
Wilfried (Petersen)


Re: [HN] Suche nach "overstette"

Date: 2006/12/07 19:46:48
From: Wilfried Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

<gale(a)bosche.info> schrieb:
> Hi Esther:
> 
> Here is what I have found.  Remember there may well be 
> others, even many others.
> 
> I think you are right
> OVERSTETTE  = OVERSTEDTE
> It is located south of Uelzen, just north of the town of 
> Bodenteich on L270 Which could have been renumbered.
> 
Hello Esther,

I thik that's the right one. There is no other in Hannover and only one similar in Westfalen.
The right spelling is Overstedt (without e at the end. The church-books of Bodenteich do not begin beforwe 1679 and are as microfiches at the Kirchenbuchamt Hannover: www.kirche-hannover.de/kirchenbuchamt/

Regards
Wilfried (Petersen)


Re: [HN] Suche nach "overstette"

Date: 2006/12/07 20:17:21
From: Esther van Rems-Dijkstra <esthervanrems(a)gmail.com>

Thank you all so much for the input, I will try to go search from there!

Esther

2006/12/7, Wilfried Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>:

<gale(a)bosche.info> schrieb:
> Hi Esther:
>
> Here is what I have found.  Remember there may well be
> others, even many others.
>
> I think you are right
> OVERSTETTE  = OVERSTEDTE
> It is located south of Uelzen, just north of the town of
> Bodenteich on L270 Which could have been renumbered.
>
Hello Esther,

I thik that's the right one. There is no other in Hannover and only one
similar in Westfalen.
The right spelling is Overstedt (without e at the end. The church-books of
Bodenteich do not begin beforwe 1679 and are as microfiches at the
Kirchenbuchamt Hannover: www.kirche-hannover.de/kirchenbuchamt/

Regards
Wilfried (Petersen)

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Re: [HN] Suche nach "overstette"

Date: 2006/12/07 20:54:27
From: HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de <HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de>

   Hallo Esther, Overstedt ist ein Dorf in der Nähe von Bodenteich im
   Landkreis Uelzen, alles Gute Heinrich
   -----Original Message-----
   Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:34:46 +0100
   Subject: [HN] Suche nach "overstette"
   From: "Esther van Rems-Dijkstra" <esthervanrems(a)gmail.com>
   To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
   Hi,
   I will write in English since my German in writing is poor (I make too
   many
   mistakes) but I can read German without any problem.
   In my search for anchestors I found:
   Gerrit Coert Steffenhagen born 1715 in OVERSTETTE in Hannover area. I
   can't
   find it anywhere, does it excist? Or maybe the Dutch wrote it wrong
   and
   should the last part be STADTE in stead of Stette.
   Can anyone help me??
   Esther van Rems
   Netherlands
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Re: [HN] Kirchenbücher von Lemke, Marl, Uchte, Hedewede

Date: 2006/12/07 20:56:23
From: Björn Sassenberg <post(a)bjoern-sassenberg.de>

Hallo Herr Sturma,

haben Sie bereits Kontakt zu Karl-Dieter KANNING aufgenommen, der ebenfalls im nördlichen Minden nach diesem Namen forscht? Sie finden seine Homepage unter www.kanning.de.

Viele Grüße,

Björn Sassenberg


----- Original Message ----- From: "STURMA Juergen" <Juergen.STURMA(a)efsa.europa.eu>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: [HN] Kirchenbücher von Lemke, Marl, Uchte, Hedewede


Sehr geehrter Leser und Forscher,

mein Hauptforschunggebiet liegt im nördlichen Kreis Minden, wobei sich grenzübergreifende Verbindungen ergeben haben. Ich müsste nun wissen, wo sich die Kirchenbücher von Uchte, Marl, Lemke und Heddewede befinden und welchen Zeitraum sie abdecken. Ich weiß, dass Teile dieses Bereiches bis 1816 als Lehen zu Hessen gehörten, hoffe aber trotzdem, dass diese Liste zuständig ist. Mein besonderes Interesse gilt dem FN Kanning oder Canning, der (nach Meyerholtz, FN in Hoya und Diepholz) in den o.g. Orten vom 16. Jahrhundert an vorkommt.

Herzlichen Dank im Voraus.

Jürgen Sturma


**********************************
Jürgen Sturma
Assistant Scientific Co-ordinator
European Food Safety Authority
Pesticide Risk Assessment Peer Review (PRAPeR)

Largo N. Palli 5/A
I-43100 Parma
Tel: +39 0521 036 655
Fax: +39 0521 036 755
Email:  juergen.sturma(a)efsa.europa.eu
Website: http://www.efsa.europa.eu <http://www.efsa.europa.eu/>

please note that the e-mail address and the web address have changed



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Re: [HN] Suche nach "overstette"

Date: 2006/12/07 22:58:51
From: Esther van Rems-Dijkstra <esthervanrems(a)gmail.com>

Ich glaube auch das das dorf es ist. Woher kan ich dan suchen um Gerrit Kurt
Steffenhagen zu finden?? Ich habe niemals in Deutschland gesucht.
Vielen dank und alles gute,

Esther

2006/12/7, HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de <HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de>:


   Hallo Esther, Overstedt ist ein Dorf in der Nähe von Bodenteich im
   Landkreis Uelzen, alles Gute Heinrich
   -----Original Message-----
   Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:34:46 +0100
   Subject: [HN] Suche nach "overstette"
   From: "Esther van Rems-Dijkstra" <esthervanrems(a)gmail.com>
   To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
   Hi,
   I will write in English since my German in writing is poor (I make too
   many
   mistakes) but I can read German without any problem.
   In my search for anchestors I found:
   Gerrit Coert Steffenhagen born 1715 in OVERSTETTE in Hannover area. I
   can't
   find it anywhere, does it excist? Or maybe the Dutch wrote it wrong
   and
   should the last part be STADTE in stead of Stette.
   Can anyone help me??
   Esther van Rems
   Netherlands
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Re: [HN] Gartenweg Response from Landeshauptstadt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/07 23:10:36
From: Susanne Schmitz <su-schmitz(a)gmx.net>

Hallo Allen,

Would someone fluent in German be so kind as to translate this or give
the highlights please.

Einen Gartenweg gibt und gab es in Hannover nicht.
(A "Gartenweg" never existed in Hannover)

So this information is absolutely wrong! It is sad to see, that "Geoinformation of the Landeshauptstadt Hannover" is making such mistakes! As Wilfried Petersen already pointed, Limmer belongs to the town of Hannover since 1909. The whole rest of the letter is without any use for you, because they are writing about GartenSTRASSE. I just asked my father, who lived as a child in Gartenweg 2 (1930 - 1943): the street was called GartenWEG, not Gartenstrasse or whatever. Number 2 was the house on the edge of Gartenweg/Wunstorferstrasse, number 4 and 6 the neighbourhouses on the same side of the Gartenweg. Holger Bremer told you the inhabitants of Nr. 6 in 1928; when did Heinrich Haupt leave Hannover ? In 1925 ? There are adressbooks for Hannover back into the 1840-ies, so it should be no problem to find your Heinrich. These adressbooks are in the library and in the "Stadtarchiv" in Hannover; I can have a look, when I will visit hannover next time (not before christmas).

MfG     Susanne

Re: [HN] Ortsfamilienbuch Leese

Date: 2006/12/07 23:34:27
From: Susanne Schmitz <su-schmitz(a)gmx.net>

Hallo Ulrike,

 ich habe ebenfalls Vorfahren aus Leese. Man sagte mir vor ein paar
Jahren,
dass dort die Kirchenbücher verbrannt seien und
somit keine weitere Forschung mehr möglich sei.

Wer immer Dir das gesagt hat, hatte definitiv Unrecht, denn ich arbeite seit Jahren mit den Büchern, allerdings nur im Zeitraum 1654 - 1753; danach gibts leider eine Lücke von ca. 20 Jahren und im 19.Jahrhundert arbeite ich nicht.
Für 1654 - 1753:
Buck gibts zu dieser Zeit nicht, aber Buch.
Dohrmann gibts schon im 17. Jahrhundert.
Landwehr oder ähnliches kommt zu dieser Zeit nicht vor.

Wenn Du eine Anfrage ans Pfarramt sendest, wird Dir bestimmt geholfen. Dienstagnachmittags ist das Büro besetzt.

Grüße    Susanne

Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese

Date: 2006/12/07 23:47:47
From: Susanne Schmitz <su-schmitz(a)gmx.net>

Hallo Bobbi,

unfortunately I am only working with the churchbook 1654 - 1753; I have no photos from the 19th century (and Leese is not in my neighbourhood). But you can write a letter to:

Pfarrbüro Leese
Kirchplatz 5
31633 Leese

MfG    Susanne


Hi Susanne,I have family that came from Leese.  My Great-great-grandmother (Sophie Buck) was born in Leese in 1845.  Would you have access to those records?Thanks for your time.Bobbi---

Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese

Date: 2006/12/08 01:52:58
From: ann <aknaebel(a)earthlink.net>

I have been reading your e-mails where you state you are working on the church records.  I too have access to the church records for a small community in the USA.  Just what information are you including in order  to make them useful for genealogy research and not  to violate the confidentiality of them.

Any insite you can give me would be helpful as I too have been toying with the idea that these should be made more readily available for researchers.

Thanks and God Bless

Anna

-----Original Message-----
>From: Susanne Schmitz <su-schmitz(a)gmx.net>
>Sent: Dec 7, 2006 4:47 PM
>To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>Subject: Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese
>
>Hallo Bobbi,
>
>unfortunately I am only working with the churchbook 1654 - 1753; I have no  
>photos from the 19th century (and Leese is not in my neighbourhood). But  
>you can write a letter to:
>
>Pfarrbro Leese
>Kirchplatz 5
>31633 Leese
>
>MfG    Susanne
>
>
>> Hi Susanne,I have family that came from Leese. My  
>> Great-great-grandmother (Sophie Buck) was born in Leese in 1845. Would  
>> you have access to those records?Thanks for your time.Bobbi---
>______________________________________________
>
>Hannover-L mailing list
>Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


RE: [HN] Information DIGITALIiserung von Kirchenbchern

Date: 2006/12/08 08:20:06
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Klaus,

What an interesting subject.

Thank you.  I plan to spend some time reading this information.

Barbie-Lew

P.S. Would be interesting to hear listies opinions on digitized Kirchenbüchern records.


Advantages?

Liabilities?

Lieber Klaus,

Ein was für interessantes Thema. Danke.

Ich plane, einige Zeit zu verbringen diese Informationen lesend.



Barbie-Lew

P.S. Seien Sie interessant, listies Meinungen über digitalisierte Kirchenbüchern Aufzeichnungen zu hören.

Vorteile?

Verbindlichkeiten?













Liebe Listenteilnehmer,

   COMPUTERGENEALOGIE
                 MAGAZIN FUER FAMILIENFORSCHUNG


                     NEWSLETTER NR. 12/2006
http://www.computergenealogie.de


ist ein interessanter Artikel über Digitalisierung von Kirchenbüchern zu
entnehmken, leider keine Stellungnahme für denNordelbingischen Raum.
http://www.ekd.de/archive/deutsch/Hannover_Bericht.htm

Gruß
Klaus
www.Riecken-online.de

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Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese

Date: 2006/12/08 16:14:46
From: Janice Seiler <jseiler(a)cmcvtx.org>

Anna,

I have transcribed church records from a now defunct church in my community.  The records are in German, so I've had a bit of a challenge.  I have put out the baptismal and confirmation records to date from the origin in 1888 to the 1920s.  Since they include names and birthdates, I did not want to put out anything more recent than that.  I also included myself as a reference if someone was doing a research for a family and wanted to know if there were any more recent records.  I would help them on a one-to-one basis.

Janice Thiele Seiler

-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]On Behalf Of ann
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:53 PM
To: Hannover-L
Subject: Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese


I have been reading your e-mails where you state you are working on the church records.  I too have access to the church records for a small community in the USA.  Just what information are you including in order  to make them useful for genealogy research and not  to violate the confidentiality of them.

Any insite you can give me would be helpful as I too have been toying with the idea that these should be made more readily available for researchers.

Thanks and God Bless

Anna

-----Original Message-----
>From: Susanne Schmitz <su-schmitz(a)gmx.net>
>Sent: Dec 7, 2006 4:47 PM
>To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>Subject: Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese
>
>Hallo Bobbi,
>
>unfortunately I am only working with the churchbook 1654 - 1753; I have no  
>photos from the 19th century (and Leese is not in my neighbourhood). But  
>you can write a letter to:
>
>Pfarrbro Leese
>Kirchplatz 5
>31633 Leese
>
>MfG    Susanne
>
>
>> Hi Susanne,I have family that came from Leese. My  
>> Great-great-grandmother (Sophie Buck) was born in Leese in 1845. Would  
>> you have access to those records?Thanks for your time.Bobbi---
>______________________________________________
>
>Hannover-L mailing list
>Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest

Date: 2006/12/08 18:19:12
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello,

     I recently learned that the complete census records(USA) are available
online totally free.  It is through Heritage Quest Online.  You have to go
through your local public library and use your name and Library Card number.
You can do this from anywhere.  I have no idea how many public libraries
provide this service. If you go to the website for your public library, they
may have information and the link there. I suppose you could call them as
well. 

Barbara 

Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest

Date: 2006/12/08 18:40:43
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

For sure the St. Louis County Library (Missouri) offers this service.
Max







> Hello,
> 
>      I recently learned that the complete census records(USA) are available
> online totally free.  It is through Heritage Quest Online.  You have to go
> through your local public library and use your name and Library Card number.
> You can do this from anywhere.  I have no idea how many public libraries
> provide this service. If you go to the website for your public library, they
> may have information and the link there. I suppose you could call them as
> well. 
> 
> Barbara 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest

Date: 2006/12/08 20:14:35
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Barbara and others on the list.

Is this something new, or something we have been missing?

I just found out that our local county library is providing language learning free. It is the Rosetta Stone On line Language Learning Center. It includes four language learning skills: listening comprehension, reading comprehension, speaking and writing. I am signing up. If it is a good program and I am smart enough, I will let you know in German. If I am not smart enough or the program is not good, I will let you know in English. It would certainly be a benefit, as the number of German listings have been increasing. Also, it will help with letter writing and document searches.

Are there other facilities provided by libraries which may help the amateur genealogy researchers? COMMENTS?

Gale

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:18:52 -0700
 R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net> wrote:
Hello,

I recently learned that the complete census records(USA) are available online totally free. It is through Heritage Quest Online. You have to go through your local public library and use your name and Library Card number. You can do this from anywhere. I have no idea how many public libraries provide this service. If you go to the website for your public library, they may have information and the link there. I suppose you could call them as well. Barbara ______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest

Date: 2006/12/08 20:28:02
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Barbara again,
      I'm not sure I made it clear that you can view the census records AT
Home.  You don't need to go to the public library to view the Heritage Quest
materials.  But you have to have a public library card in order to get into
the site. 
Barbara



on 12/8/06 10:18 AM, R&B Stewart at raybarbara(a)comcast.net wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I recently learned that the complete census records(USA) are available
> online totally free.  It is through Heritage Quest Online.  You have to go
> through your local public library and use your name and Library Card number.
> You can do this from anywhere.  I have no idea how many public libraries
> provide this service. If you go to the website for your public library, they
> may have information and the link there. I suppose you could call them as
> well. 
> 
> Barbara 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest

Date: 2006/12/08 20:36:53
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

 Hi Gale,
 
I have some experience with a Rosetta Stone product which I borrowed from my library. It is a PC based learning system not an on line system. Although they may also have more advanced product out now. 
 
It is self paced and all in German - there is no English so you learn by making mistakes. I am planing a trip to German next year so I am looking at all the options. Rosetta Stone has several levels of leraning and I think it is their policy to make only the basic level available to libraries hoping that people will buy the more advanced versions. 
 
It is a very faced paced and fun way to learn but if you stick to it you I am guessing that you will master the basic level in about month or so and need to move on. My wife who has only a passing interest inlearnig GErman got hooked on Rosetta Stone.
 
I work in SF so I am trying to find a German speaker to practice with duirng the day. So far no responses to my posting on Craigslist.
 
I am also wondering if there is a way to talk between US and Germany over the internet for those Americans who want to learn German and those Germans who would like to learn English.
 
Anyone had any expreince with this?
 
Barney Speckman
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: gale(a)bosche.info
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest


Hi Barbara and others on the list.

Is this something new, or something we have been missing?

I just found out that our local county library is 
providing language learning free.  It is the Rosetta Stone 
On line Language Learning Center.  It includes four 
language learning skills:  listening comprehension, 
reading comprehension, speaking and writing.  I am signing 
up.  If it is a good program and I am smart enough, I will 
let you know in German.  If I am not smart enough or the 
program is not good, I will let you know in English.  It 
would certainly be a benefit, as the number of German 
listings have been increasing.  Also, it will help with 
letter writing and document searches.

Are there other facilities provided by libraries which may 
help the amateur genealogy researchers?  COMMENTS?

Gale

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:18:52 -0700
  R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>     I recently learned that the complete census 
>records(USA) are available
> online totally free.  It is through Heritage Quest 
>Online.  You have to go
> through your local public library and use your name and 
>Library Card number.
> You can do this from anywhere.  I have no idea how many 
>public libraries
> provide this service. If you go to the website for your 
>public library, they
> may have information and the link there. I suppose you 
>could call them as
> well. 
> 
> Barbara 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL.  Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese

Date: 2006/12/08 21:48:43
From: LadyBonita (USA) <ladybonita(a)usa.com>

Are there any HILMER or HILLMER in the records?  If so, I would sur
appreciate the information.  

Bonita Hillmer

-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Janice Seiler
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:15 AM
To: Hannover-L
Subject: Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese

Anna,

I have transcribed church records from a now defunct church in my community.
The records are in German, so I've had a bit of a challenge.  I have put out
the baptismal and confirmation records to date from the origin in 1888 to
the 1920s.  Since they include names and birthdates, I did not want to put
out anything more recent than that.  I also included myself as a reference
if someone was doing a research for a family and wanted to know if there
were any more recent records.  I would help them on a one-to-one basis.

Janice Thiele Seiler



Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest

Date: 2006/12/08 22:20:13
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

 Hi Gale,
 
I forgot to mention an online tool that is fairly good. It can be found at the link below.
 
http://german.about.com/library/anfang/blanfang_inhalt.htm
 
It has beginer material  as well as advanced and some on line audio.
 
Barney
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: gale(a)bosche.info
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest


Hi Barbara and others on the list.

Is this something new, or something we have been missing?

I just found out that our local county library is 
providing language learning free.  It is the Rosetta Stone 
On line Language Learning Center.  It includes four 
language learning skills:  listening comprehension, 
reading comprehension, speaking and writing.  I am signing 
up.  If it is a good program and I am smart enough, I will 
let you know in German.  If I am not smart enough or the 
program is not good, I will let you know in English.  It 
would certainly be a benefit, as the number of German 
listings have been increasing.  Also, it will help with 
letter writing and document searches.

Are there other facilities provided by libraries which may 
help the amateur genealogy researchers?  COMMENTS?

Gale

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:18:52 -0700
  R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>     I recently learned that the complete census 
>records(USA) are available
> online totally free.  It is through Heritage Quest 
>Online.  You have to go
> through your local public library and use your name and 
>Library Card number.
> You can do this from anywhere.  I have no idea how many 
>public libraries
> provide this service. If you go to the website for your 
>public library, they
> may have information and the link there. I suppose you 
>could call them as
> well. 
> 
> Barbara 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL.  Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest

Date: 2006/12/08 22:26:39
From: Larry Monk <lmonk33(a)msn.com>

Hi,
With regard to using the Internet to practice:
you may want to check out skype.com, a free program that allows you to talk via computer with anyone anywhere who has an e-mail address. You may need a microphone and a set of speakers.
good luck!
Larry



From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:36:36 -0500

 Hi Gale,

I have some experience with a Rosetta Stone product which I borrowed from my library. It is a PC based learning system not an on line system. Although they may also have more advanced product out now.

It is self paced and all in German - there is no English so you learn by making mistakes. I am planing a trip to German next year so I am looking at all the options. Rosetta Stone has several levels of leraning and I think it is their policy to make only the basic level available to libraries hoping that people will buy the more advanced versions.

It is a very faced paced and fun way to learn but if you stick to it you I am guessing that you will master the basic level in about month or so and need to move on. My wife who has only a passing interest inlearnig GErman got hooked on Rosetta Stone.

I work in SF so I am trying to find a German speaker to practice with duirng the day. So far no responses to my posting on Craigslist.

I am also wondering if there is a way to talk between US and Germany over the internet for those Americans who want to learn German and those Germans who would like to learn English.

Anyone had any expreince with this?

Barney Speckman


-----Original Message-----
From: gale(a)bosche.info
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest


Hi Barbara and others on the list.

Is this something new, or something we have been missing?

I just found out that our local county library is
providing language learning free.  It is the Rosetta Stone
On line Language Learning Center.  It includes four
language learning skills:  listening comprehension,
reading comprehension, speaking and writing.  I am signing
up.  If it is a good program and I am smart enough, I will
let you know in German.  If I am not smart enough or the
program is not good, I will let you know in English.  It
would certainly be a benefit, as the number of German
listings have been increasing.  Also, it will help with
letter writing and document searches.

Are there other facilities provided by libraries which may
help the amateur genealogy researchers?  COMMENTS?

Gale

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:18:52 -0700
  R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>     I recently learned that the complete census
>records(USA) are available
> online totally free.  It is through Heritage Quest
>Online.  You have to go
> through your local public library and use your name and
>Library Card number.
> You can do this from anywhere.  I have no idea how many
>public libraries
> provide this service. If you go to the website for your
>public library, they
> may have information and the link there. I suppose you
>could call them as
> well.
>
> Barbara
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



Re: [HN] Suche nach "overstette"

Date: 2006/12/08 23:31:22
From: Wilfried Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"Esther van Rems-Dijkstra" <esthervanrems(a)gmail.com> schrieb:
> Ich glaube auch das das dorf es ist. Woher kan ich dan suchen um Gerrit Kurt
> Steffenhagen zu finden?? Ich habe niemals in Deutschland gesucht.
> Vielen dank und alles gute,
> 
> Esther

Hallo Esther,

die Kirchenbücher der Landeskirche Hannovers liegen als Microfiches im Kirchenbuchamt Hannover. Von dort kannst Du gegen Gebühr eine Kopie aus dem Kirchenbuch von Bodenteich bekommen.
www.kirche-hannover.de/kirchenbuchamt/

Viel Erfolg und freundliche Grüße,
Wilfried (Petersen)


Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese

Date: 2006/12/08 23:36:55
From: Wilfried Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

Hello Bobbi,

you can also write to the Kirchenbuchamt in Hannover. There are all church-records of the church of the former Kingdom of Hannover. See
www.kirche-hannover.de/kirchenbuchamt/
I think they understand English.

Regards
Wilfried (Petersen)



"Susanne Schmitz" <su-schmitz(a)gmx.net> schrieb:
> Hallo Bobbi,
> 
> unfortunately I am only working with the churchbook 1654 - 1753; I have no  
> photos from the 19th century (and Leese is not in my neighbourhood). But  
> you can write a letter to:
> 
> Pfarrbüro Leese
> Kirchplatz 5
> 31633 Leese
> 
> > Hi Susanne,I have family that came from Leese.  My  
> > Great-great-grandmother (Sophie Buck) was born in Leese in 1845.  Would  
> > you have access to those records?Thanks for your time.Bobbi---
>


Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest

Date: 2006/12/09 00:47:19
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Heritage Quest Online (partnered a few years back with Proquest Information) offers their US Federal Census collection [1790-1930] specifically for library patrons, as opposed to their chief rivals in the field, Genealogy.com and Ancestry.com, who offer theirs solely to individual subscribers.

It is true, many libraries have purchased the Heritage Quest Online collection and offer it as a free resource for their members. Some even offering remote access, where the library's website works as a "gateway" to allow free access. Once their server verifies you as a library patron, you can access the same information from home that you would see if you were seated in the library. You can also print the same screens of information via your own local printer.

The biggest caveats are finding libraries that offer both the service -AND- remote access (needless to say, not all will). You generally have a better chance to find this service amongst the larger hub libraries (or ones that have sizable genealogy sections). Unfortunately one of the drawbacks to Heritage Quest's service is the lack of wildcard or soundex searches to hunt for misspelled names (Ancestry.com remains superior in this regard, at least the last time I checked. Perhaps they're improving in this regard). There are also has many missing indexes, as you will soon come to discover. On the other hand, the census indexes prepared by Heritage Quest are much more accurate than the more common AIS ones.

In the end, the greatest advantages of using Heritage Quest are their quick loading and very clear images that allow for easy printing (images can be saved and printed in Tiff (non-compressed) or PDF formats), and the smart "notebook" feature they offer which allows you to save census images and citations, and even take online notes. And as Barb mentioned, all from the comfort of home sweet home.

Jb

From:  R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To:  Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject:  Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest
Date:  Fri, 08 Dec 2006 12:27:47 -0700

Barbara again,
      I'm not sure I made it clear that you can view the census records AT
Home. You don't need to go to the public library to view the Heritage Quest
materials.  But you have to have a public library card in order to get into
the site.
Barbara

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tcode=wlmtagline


Re: [HN] Hattorffs in the KGL

Date: 2006/12/09 02:35:09
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk> wrote on Monday, December 4:

<<i think those horses have  been important for the cavallery in those days.
Not only the german the english  too>>

This reminds me of the Belgian Horse Cavalry who took out their swords and galloped headlong towards their enemy - unfortunately for them  their enemy were sitting in tanks!

A lot of nice information you've provided Armin recently, excepting this last snippet <g>. Never read any accounts of the Belgians being this foolish [can you cite?], but as late as 1939 we have all heard of the Polish Cavalry charging bravely but futilely into Panzer formations (General Guderian could only have wished such a sweet dream). But like so many other tall tales from the battlefield (and especially WWII), this one remains more a myth than a reality. The Polish Lancers of 1939 were more than aware of the destructive punch the German Panzers could deliver in battle, and would have been openly committing suicide if they employed such aggressive (and mindless) tactics on the battlefield from atop their horses.

A more reasonable scenario would be that the Polish cavalry charged upon exposed German infantry placements at various times, and then were surprised (= caught unaware) by German tanks and armored carriers that moved into position. At that point an otherwise successful charge would almost instantly transform into a desperate retreat for survival, and often did (as was the case in the well known incident when two divisions of Guderian's armor ended up decimating the 18th Lancers lead by Col. Mastalerz). That such colorfully depicted attacks, like those of horse mounted, sword bearing cavalry units charging headlong into tank and armor placements, never really occurred does not seem to have diminished the popularity of these tales, even among serious historians. Most of this finds its roots in wartime propaganda, as is used by all sides when they warrant it to their advantage. But what's new eh? (witness the war in Iraq for more in this regard)

In the end, the Polish (and I'm sure Belgian) cavalry of WWII moved and transported using horses but almost always fought using infantry tactics (and with at least partial support from armored units), as did everyone else from the Wehrmacht to the Russian Cossacks. As it were, the Polish armed forces fought with great determination and courage, and gave the Germans a lot of difficulty in many places. It was the superior military efficiency of the Germans, and the newly introduced "blitzkrieg" tactics they brought to bear, that overwhelmed the Poles in the end, and not mythically foolhardy charges (though I admit it makes for some colorful stories).

----------

Maureen <mcshelly2(a)msn.com> wrote on Monday, December 4:

There was traditional order for sons: either 1- inherited everything, 2- joined military, 3- joined clergy or was it 1- inherited everything, 2- became a clergyman, 3- joined the military?

Does anyone know/recall for certain which is was?

This too smacks more of myth (or popular conjecture) than fact, even if such scenarios can be found in a certain percentage of German families. But if you were to extrapolate from the entire population of any given era the statistical proof (insofar as that would be possible), you would quickly come to see this is not a merited supposition. Just use your own ancestors as proof.

Jb

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Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese

Date: 2006/12/09 04:31:33
From: ann <aknaebel(a)earthlink.net>

Thank you for the information.  I am sure this will become a useful tool for many genealogists.

God Bless

Anna

-----Original Message-----
>From: Janice Seiler <jseiler(a)cmcvtx.org>
>Sent: Dec 8, 2006 7:14 AM
>To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>Subject: Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese
>
>Anna,
>
>I have transcribed church records from a now defunct church in my community.  The records are in German, so I've had a bit of a challenge.  I have put out the baptismal and confirmation records to date from the origin in 1888 to the 1920s.  Since they include names and birthdates, I did not want to put out anything more recent than that.  I also included myself as a reference if someone was doing a research for a family and wanted to know if there were any more recent records.  I would help them on a one-to-one basis.
>
>Janice Thiele Seiler
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
>[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]On Behalf Of ann
>Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:53 PM
>To: Hannover-L
>Subject: Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese
>
>
>I have been reading your e-mails where you state you are working on the church records.  I too have access to the church records for a small community in the USA.  Just what information are you including in order  to make them useful for genealogy research and not  to violate the confidentiality of them.
>
>Any insite you can give me would be helpful as I too have been toying with the idea that these should be made more readily available for researchers.
>
>Thanks and God Bless
>
>Anna
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Susanne Schmitz <su-schmitz(a)gmx.net>
>>Sent: Dec 7, 2006 4:47 PM
>>To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>>Subject: Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese
>>
>>Hallo Bobbi,
>>
>>unfortunately I am only working with the churchbook 1654 - 1753; I have no  
>>photos from the 19th century (and Leese is not in my neighbourhood). But  
>>you can write a letter to:
>>
>>Pfarrbro Leese
>>Kirchplatz 5
>>31633 Leese
>>
>>MfG    Susanne
>>
>>
>>> Hi Susanne,I have family that came from Leese. My  
>>> Great-great-grandmother (Sophie Buck) was born in Leese in 1845. Would  
>>> you have access to those records?Thanks for your time.Bobbi---
>>______________________________________________
>>
>>Hannover-L mailing list
>>Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>______________________________________________
>
>Hannover-L mailing list
>Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest

Date: 2006/12/09 05:52:33
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Barbara,

Heritage Quest Online also has fairly numerous collection of local county/village histories to peruse with your remote access connection. Can search by surname..but easiest to do place search..such as Peoria, Illinois...or Dupage, Illinois...etc... to discover what is availiable ... then search through index of titles that are of interest.

There are also some German titles availiable.

Barbie-Lew

Hello,

     I recently learned that the complete census records(USA) are available
online totally free.  It is through Heritage Quest Online.  You have to go
through your local public library and use your name and Library Card number.
You can do this from anywhere.  I have no idea how many public libraries
provide this service. If you go to the website for your public library, they
may have information and the link there. I suppose you could call them as
well.

Barbara
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
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[HN] kirchebuch amt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/09 07:34:03
From: Will J van Dreven-Lieuwes <vandreve(a)iafrica.com>

I have requested at the Kirchebuch-amt in Hannover, to look something up for
me if possible.
On the page itself is a tab with the costs..
HOWever... i received a letter from a lady in Hannover, which was forwarded
to me via the 'Amt' with a charge of E(uro)35 per HOUR
that is quite steep! and why does the Kirchebuch amt has a 'rate-page' with
much less? Is that when someone visits the archive??

Someone in the group mentioned 'working with the churchbook
1654-1753..(Leese)
Is there a site where a person can look names up digitally??



Has anybody has the same experience?or another solution?


Best regards
Willemine
South africa


Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/09 14:06:39
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

 
In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt  
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

kirchebuch amt Hannover


Hi Willemine
 
Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not enough time to make  
researches or they say we cant do researches so they give you the name of a  
local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people are working "free" for  
the church or the archives. And they want of course money for one hour and 
the  price of 35 seems to be ok. 
 
Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself in the archive, but  
you know very well even when you live in Germany Hannover is a least 4 hours by 
 car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....

My researcher in Hannover  wants exacly the same price plus the money for the 
copies and depending from the  place were she has to research, a little fee 
for the voyage to this town.
 
Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations for free.... but this  
is really rare to find an officer who is doing researches himself .... anyway 
i  found some very nice and gentle persons in the Archive in Bremen and in 
Soest.  But usually you have to pay ..
 
Armin

Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/09 14:14:59
From: star <izzydo(a)voyager.net>

Could someone help me with how to unsubscribe from this list.  I am having
some trouble. Thank you.
Star
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover



In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

kirchebuch amt Hannover


Hi Willemine

Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not enough time to make
researches or they say we cant do researches so they give you the name of a
local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people are working "free"
for
the church or the archives. And they want of course money for one hour and
the  price of 35 seems to be ok.

Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself in the archive, but
you know very well even when you live in Germany Hannover is a least 4 hours
by
 car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....

My researcher in Hannover  wants exacly the same price plus the money for
the
copies and depending from the  place were she has to research, a little fee
for the voyage to this town.

Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations for free.... but this
is really rare to find an officer who is doing researches himself ....
anyway
i  found some very nice and gentle persons in the Archive in Bremen and in
Soest.  But usually you have to pay ..

Armin
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] kirchebuch amt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/09 14:20:44
From: Wilfried Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"Will J van Dreven-Lieuwes" <vandreve(a)iafrica.com> schrieb:
> I have requested at the Kirchebuch-amt in Hannover, to look something up for
> me if possible.
> On the page itself is a tab with the costs..
> HOWever... i received a letter from a lady in Hannover, which was forwarded
> to me via the 'Amt' with a charge of E(uro)35 per HOUR
> that is quite steep! and why does the Kirchebuch amt has a 'rate-page' with
> much less? Is that when someone visits the archive??
> 

Hello Willemine,

on the 'rate-page' are indicated costs of 8 Euro per each breaked quarter of an hour when the Kirchenbuchamt does a research. From 1.1.2007 in Germany the VAT shall be increased from 16 to 19 %. Probably the rates of the Amt are also increased. These rates are quite normal for researches done by archives or churches in Germany.

Regards,
Wilfried (Petersen)



Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/09 14:32:02
From: Will J van Dreven-Lieuwes <vandreve(a)iafrica.com>

Thanks to Wilfried and Armin for your info

Even more expensive for me...to 'drive' all the way from South africa..and
an hotel etc..
I will have to decide..
THank you again
Willemine




-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]On Behalf Of star
Sent: 09 December 2006 15:15
To: Hannover-L
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover


Could someone help me with how to unsubscribe from this list.  I am having
some trouble. Thank you.
Star
----- Original Message -----
From: <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover



In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

kirchebuch amt Hannover


Hi Willemine

Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not enough time to make
researches or they say we cant do researches so they give you the name of a
local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people are working "free"
for
the church or the archives. And they want of course money for one hour and
the  price of 35 seems to be ok.

Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself in the archive, but
you know very well even when you live in Germany Hannover is a least 4 hours
by
 car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....

My researcher in Hannover  wants exacly the same price plus the money for
the
copies and depending from the  place were she has to research, a little fee
for the voyage to this town.

Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations for free.... but this
is really rare to find an officer who is doing researches himself ....
anyway
i  found some very nice and gentle persons in the Archive in Bremen and in
Soest.  But usually you have to pay ..

Armin
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/09 16:52:36
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Star:

Go to the URL listed at the end of each listing and follow the instructions.

http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Gale


On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 08:14:50 -0500
 "star" <izzydo(a)voyager.net> wrote:
Could someone help me with how to unsubscribe from this list. I am having
some trouble. Thank you.
Star
----- Original Message ----- From: <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover



In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

kirchebuch amt Hannover


Hi Willemine

Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not enough time to make researches or they say we cant do researches so they give you the name of a local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people are working "free"
for
the church or the archives. And they want of course money for one hour and
the  price of 35 seems to be ok.

Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself in the archive, but you know very well even when you live in Germany Hannover is a least 4 hours
by
car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....

My researcher in Hannover wants exacly the same price plus the money for
the
copies and depending from the place were she has to research, a little fee
for the voyage to this town.

Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations for free.... but this is really rare to find an officer who is doing researches himself ....
anyway
i found some very nice and gentle persons in the Archive in Bremen and in
Soest.  But usually you have to pay ..

Armin
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] US Census online

Date: 2006/12/09 16:59:22
From: Art Dohrman <art.dohrman(a)comcast.net>

Those of you in the US interested in online census and other historical
references may be interested in the Godfrey Memorial Library,
http://www.godfrey.org/.  The Library is a nonprofit physically located in
Central Connecticut, but they have extensive on line resources, including
census, historical newspapers, Revolutionary War soldiers, etc, etc.  Dues
are $35 per year (very reasonable compared to some of the commercial
services), and it's very convenient to be sitting at home and think "well,
what about so-and-so?" and be able to pull up the census immediately.  It's
not a panacea, but it's another resource and very convenient.

Regards and happy holidays to all!
Art



Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/09 17:28:01
From: star <izzydo(a)voyager.net>

Thanks Gale.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <gale(a)bosche.info>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover


Hi Star:

Go to the URL listed at the end of each listing and follow
the instructions.

http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Gale


On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 08:14:50 -0500
  "star" <izzydo(a)voyager.net> wrote:
> Could someone help me with how to unsubscribe from this
>list.  I am having
> some trouble. Thank you.
> Star
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>
> To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover
>
>
>
> In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische
>Normalzeit schreibt
> hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:
>
> kirchebuch amt Hannover
>
>
> Hi Willemine
>
> Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not
>enough time to make
> researches or they say we cant do researches so they
>give you the name of a
> local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people
>are working "free"
> for
> the church or the archives. And they want of course
>money for one hour and
> the  price of 35 seems to be ok.
>
> Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself
>in the archive, but
> you know very well even when you live in Germany
>Hannover is a least 4 hours
> by
> car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....
>
> My researcher in Hannover  wants exacly the same price
>plus the money for
> the
> copies and depending from the  place were she has to
>research, a little fee
> for the voyage to this town.
>
> Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations
>for free.... but this
> is really rare to find an officer who is doing
>researches himself ....
> anyway
> i  found some very nice and gentle persons in the
>Archive in Bremen and in
> Soest.  But usually you have to pay ..
>
> Armin
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/09 17:30:22
From: star <izzydo(a)voyager.net>

Could someone translate?  Thanks so much.
Star

----Klicken Sie auf Kündigung des Abos, um die Kündigung zu bestätigen.
Oder klicken Sie auf Abbrechen und verwerfen, um das Abo nicht zu kündigen-
Original Message ----- 

From: "star" <izzydo(a)voyager.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover


Thanks Gale.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <gale(a)bosche.info>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover


Hi Star:

Go to the URL listed at the end of each listing and follow
the instructions.

http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Gale


On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 08:14:50 -0500
  "star" <izzydo(a)voyager.net> wrote:
> Could someone help me with how to unsubscribe from this
>list.  I am having
> some trouble. Thank you.
> Star
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>
> To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover
>
>
>
> In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische
>Normalzeit schreibt
> hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:
>
> kirchebuch amt Hannover
>
>
> Hi Willemine
>
> Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not
>enough time to make
> researches or they say we cant do researches so they
>give you the name of a
> local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people
>are working "free"
> for
> the church or the archives. And they want of course
>money for one hour and
> the  price of 35 seems to be ok.
>
> Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself
>in the archive, but
> you know very well even when you live in Germany
>Hannover is a least 4 hours
> by
> car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....
>
> My researcher in Hannover  wants exacly the same price
>plus the money for
> the
> copies and depending from the  place were she has to
>research, a little fee
> for the voyage to this town.
>
> Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations
>for free.... but this
> is really rare to find an officer who is doing
>researches himself ....
> anyway
> i  found some very nice and gentle persons in the
>Archive in Bremen and in
> Soest.  But usually you have to pay ..
>
> Armin
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/09 18:11:31
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Star:

I assume you are trying to read the instructions on unscribing.

At the top of the page, there is a language selection. It is listed kinda backward. Click on the check mark after Deutsch, select English and click on view this page in English.

Scroll down to the last two lines.

To unsubscribe from Hannover-L, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options enter your subscription email address:

Gale

On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:30:11 -0500
 "star" <izzydo(a)voyager.net> wrote:
Could someone translate?  Thanks so much.
Star

----Klicken Sie auf Kündigung des Abos, um die Kündigung zu bestätigen. Oder klicken Sie auf Abbrechen und verwerfen, um das Abo nicht zu kündigen- Original Message -----
From: "star" <izzydo(a)voyager.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover


Thanks Gale.

----- Original Message ----- From: <gale(a)bosche.info>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover


Hi Star:

Go to the URL listed at the end of each listing and follow
the instructions.

http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Gale


On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 08:14:50 -0500
 "star" <izzydo(a)voyager.net> wrote:
Could someone help me with how to unsubscribe from this
list.  I am having
some trouble. Thank you.
Star
----- Original Message ----- From: <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover



In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische
Normalzeit schreibt
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

kirchebuch amt Hannover


Hi Willemine

Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not
enough time to make
researches or they say we cant do researches so they
give you the name of a
local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people
are working "free"
for
the church or the archives. And they want of course
money for one hour and
the  price of 35 seems to be ok.

Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself
in the archive, but
you know very well even when you live in Germany
Hannover is a least 4 hours
by
car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....

My researcher in Hannover  wants exacly the same price
plus the money for
the
copies and depending from the  place were she has to
research, a little fee
for the voyage to this town.

Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations
for free.... but this
is really rare to find an officer who is doing
researches himself ....
anyway
i  found some very nice and gentle persons in the
Archive in Bremen and in
Soest.  But usually you have to pay ..

Armin
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/09 18:46:43
From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>

Hi, Nancy,

Glad you liked it.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <gale(a)bosche.info>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover


Hi Star:

Go to the URL listed at the end of each listing and follow
the instructions.

http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Gale


On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 08:14:50 -0500
  "star" <izzydo(a)voyager.net> wrote:
> Could someone help me with how to unsubscribe from this
>list.  I am having
> some trouble. Thank you.
> Star
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>
> To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover
>
>
>
> In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische
>Normalzeit schreibt
> hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:
>
> kirchebuch amt Hannover
>
>
> Hi Willemine
>
> Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not
>enough time to make
> researches or they say we cant do researches so they
>give you the name of a
> local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people
>are working "free"
> for
> the church or the archives. And they want of course
>money for one hour and
> the  price of 35 seems to be ok.
>
> Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself
>in the archive, but
> you know very well even when you live in Germany
>Hannover is a least 4 hours
> by
> car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....
>
> My researcher in Hannover  wants exacly the same price
>plus the money for
> the
> copies and depending from the  place were she has to
>research, a little fee
> for the voyage to this town.
>
> Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations
>for free.... but this
> is really rare to find an officer who is doing
>researches himself ....
> anyway
> i  found some very nice and gentle persons in the
>Archive in Bremen and in
> Soest.  But usually you have to pay ..
>
> Armin
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l




Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/09 19:00:10
From: star <izzydo(a)voyager.net>

I did try that and it takes me to another German page.  Must be I am doing
it wrong.  I clicked the unsubscibe link... I will try again.. Thanks again
Gale for your help
Star

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <gale(a)bosche.info>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover


Hi Star:

I assume you are trying to read the instructions on
unscribing.

At the top of the page, there is a language selection.  It
is listed kinda backward. Click on the check mark after
Deutsch, select English and click on view this page in
English.

Scroll down to the last two lines.

To unsubscribe from Hannover-L, get a password reminder,
or change your subscription options enter your
subscription email address:

Gale



On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:30:11 -0500
  "star" <izzydo(a)voyager.net> wrote:
> Could someone translate?  Thanks so much.
> Star
>
> ----Klicken Sie auf Kündigung des Abos, um die Kündigung
>zu bestätigen.
> Oder klicken Sie auf Abbrechen und verwerfen, um das Abo
>nicht zu kündigen-
> Original Message ----- 
>
>From: "star" <izzydo(a)voyager.net>
> To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover
>
>
> Thanks Gale.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <gale(a)bosche.info>
> To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover
>
>
> Hi Star:
>
> Go to the URL listed at the end of each listing and
>follow
> the instructions.
>
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> Gale
>
>
> On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 08:14:50 -0500
>  "star" <izzydo(a)voyager.net> wrote:
>> Could someone help me with how to unsubscribe from this
>>list.  I am having
>> some trouble. Thank you.
>> Star
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>
>> To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover
>>
>>
>>
>> In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische
>>Normalzeit schreibt
>> hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:
>>
>> kirchebuch amt Hannover
>>
>>
>> Hi Willemine
>>
>> Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not
>>enough time to make
>> researches or they say we cant do researches so they
>>give you the name of a
>> local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people
>>are working "free"
>> for
>> the church or the archives. And they want of course
>>money for one hour and
>> the  price of 35 seems to be ok.
>>
>> Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself
>>in the archive, but
>> you know very well even when you live in Germany
>>Hannover is a least 4 hours
>> by
>> car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....
>>
>> My researcher in Hannover  wants exacly the same price
>>plus the money for
>> the
>> copies and depending from the  place were she has to
>>research, a little fee
>> for the voyage to this town.
>>
>> Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations
>>for free.... but this
>> is really rare to find an officer who is doing
>>researches himself ....
>> anyway
>> i  found some very nice and gentle persons in the
>>Archive in Bremen and in
>> Soest.  But usually you have to pay ..
>>
>> Armin
>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Das Telephone Buch

Date: 2006/12/09 23:05:31
From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>

Hallo

It has been a long time since I used the German telephone book and I have
forgotten how to locate concentrations of a surname.

Please bring me up to date.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



Re: [HN] kirchenbuch amt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/09 23:56:26
From: Susanne Schmitz <su-schmitz(a)gmx.net>

Hello Wilhelmine,

Someone in the group mentioned 'working with the churchbook
1654-1753..(Leese)
Is there a site where a person can look names up digitally??

That`s me, who is reading the churchbooks of Leese - but not online! I sometimes go to the churchoffice and read in the original books.
Without permission of the church, who is owner of the books, it is not possible to put all the information into the net. So for you so far away is no other possibility than to pay charge for someone doing this work. The charge of 8 Euros I have to pay when I go to the Kirchenbuchamt and do the research by myself.

MfG          Susanne

Re: [HN] [compgend-L] Mal was zum Schmunzeln (fwd)

Date: 2006/12/10 01:13:19
From: bobbidoll <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>

 
Thanks for the laugh.  It is a shame to find out that commercialism has taken over on both sides of the Atlantic.Bobbi

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way  your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com

Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/10 04:02:32
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Lieb Listies,

Our beloved hobby can be expensive.

Catagorized as luxary & entertainment expense item in my budget..:) Winning the lottery would definately help fund my genealogy wish-list!!! There is always next month, next year..:) The wish list will keep...and will probobly get longer.

Thirty-five an hour is expense.. but also I think depends on what you recieve for that thirty-five dollars. A local historian familiar with an archive perhaps can provide you with unexpected results. I don't know. I think always a good idea to search out everything clue and bit of information you can find in your own local archives so that you are absolutely certain that the thirty-five dollars per hour you spend is being spent wisely.

Barbie-Lew











In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

kirchebuch amt Hannover


Hi Willemine

Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not enough time to make
researches or they say we cant do researches so they give you the name of a
local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people are working "free" for
the church or the archives. And they want of course money for one hour and
the  price of 35 seems to be ok.

Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself in the archive, but
you know very well even when you live in Germany Hannover is a least 4 hours by
 car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....

My researcher in Hannover wants exacly the same price plus the money for the
copies and depending from the  place were she has to research, a little fee
for the voyage to this town.

Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations for free.... but this
is really rare to find an officer who is doing researches himself .... anyway
i  found some very nice and gentle persons in the Archive in Bremen and in
Soest.  But usually you have to pay ..

Armin
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now. http://ideas.live.com


Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/10 07:02:08
From: Will J van Dreven-Lieuwes <vandreve(a)iafrica.com>

Hi B.Lew
You are absolutely right.
Dollars is even more expensive.. while the Euro is higher then the $$

I dot quite a bit Pro Deo, for the SA community.. the country is big..and
ppl are not
capable to go to the big cities.. Johannesburg Cape town is 2 hours flight!!
and even you can do that in one day.. you might not find everything in the
archives IN that one day..
So I have quite a list of names to find in Cape town, from all over SA.(and
beyond)
MOst of the emigrating data is in Cape town..
The drive is about 120 miles, but i do it gladly.
I have no family in SA.. so i dont need to search for myself..

Someone has offered me help,and am very grateful for that and there i have
to go to Holland, because my Mom (97) is not quite well, i might be able to
travel to Hannover..and search for myself.
also expensive.. but this is the only way.. and probably less expensive..
then paying 35 Euro per HOUR!!
Best regards
Will


-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]On Behalf Of Cactus Flower
Sent: 10 December 2006 05:02
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover


Lieb Listies,

Our beloved hobby can be expensive.

Catagorized as luxary & entertainment expense item in my budget..:)
Winning the lottery would definately help fund my genealogy wish-list!!!
There is always next month, next year..:) The wish list will keep...and will
probobly get longer.

Thirty-five an hour is expense.. but also I think depends on what you
recieve for that thirty-five dollars.  A local historian familiar with an
archive perhaps can provide you with unexpected results. I don't know.  I
think always a good idea to search out everything clue and bit of
information you can find in your own local archives so that you are
absolutely certain that the thirty-five dollars per hour you spend is being
spent wisely.

Barbie-Lew











In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

kirchebuch amt Hannover


Hi Willemine

Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not enough time to make
researches or they say we cant do researches so they give you the name of a
local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people are working "free"
for
the church or the archives. And they want of course money for one hour and
the  price of 35 seems to be ok.

Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself in the archive, but
you know very well even when you live in Germany Hannover is a least 4 hours
by
  car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....

My researcher in Hannover  wants exacly the same price plus the money for
the
copies and depending from the  place were she has to research, a little fee
for the voyage to this town.

Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations for free.... but this
is really rare to find an officer who is doing researches himself ....
anyway
i  found some very nice and gentle persons in the Archive in Bremen and in
Soest.  But usually you have to pay ..

Armin
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now.
http://ideas.live.com



Re: [HN] kirchenbuch amt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/10 07:25:15
From: Will J van Dreven-Lieuwes <vandreve(a)iafrica.com>

Thank you Susanne..

Will

-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]On Behalf Of Susanne Schmitz
Sent: 10 December 2006 00:56
To: Hannover-L
Subject: Re: [HN] kirchenbuch amt Hannover


Hello Wilhelmine,

> Someone in the group mentioned 'working with the churchbook
> 1654-1753..(Leese)
> Is there a site where a person can look names up digitally??
>
> That`s me, who is reading the churchbooks of Leese - but not online! I  
> sometimes go to the churchoffice and read in the original books.
Without permission of the church, who is owner of the books, it is not  
possible to put all the information into the net.
So for you so far away is no other possibility than to pay charge for  
someone doing this work. The charge of 8 Euros I have to pay when I go to  
the Kirchenbuchamt and do the research by myself.

MfG          Susanne
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Re: [HN] Das Telephone Buch

Date: 2006/12/10 09:26:40
From: Björn Sassenberg <post(a)bjoern-sassenberg.de>

Dear Bob,

to locate concentrations of a surname use:

http://christoph.stoepel.net/Geogen.aspx

Kindly regards from Langenhagen, Germany

Björn

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Doerr" <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:05 PM
Subject: [HN] Das Telephone Buch


Hallo

It has been a long time since I used the German telephone book and I have
forgotten how to locate concentrations of a surname.

Please bring me up to date.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Schwarzen Chronicle Question

Date: 2006/12/10 11:44:45
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Lieb Hans,

What is the Schwarzen Chronicle?

This data was included..

26.1.19 Mord an Anna HOFFMANN geb.BOJENS, Querstr. 1; Täter Otto LORENZ

The ship arrival list for my fathers uncle Karl Schmidt indicates he was born in Geesthacht.

His wife Dora (Klatt) Schmidt address is listed:
Bergedorf Querstr II.  The year is 1928.

Would this address neighbor Querstr. 1?

At:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geesthacht#History

Mentions 1918-1933 hotbed of radical leftist parties .... nickname Little Moscow...

Mentions 1928 destruction of the historical town center.

Some of the surnames mentioned in your posts about Schwarzen Chronicle I have come across in the midwest as I methodically search for possible connections to my Sahs/Sass and Schmidt ancestors many of those surnames..though not any particular proof that they actually relate to my own family..

I think Geesthacht (if I am correct) is about 10 miles from Bergedorf. I think I have an old picture that grandparents marked Bergedorfer Strasse**..Also one marked Bergedorfer Schloss-park.

* Bergedorfer Strasse - If I understand correctly ... might be associated with Geesthacht?

Gosh..

Could I have criminal ancestors?

Did you find and data of the surnames Schmidt, Sahs, Sass, Sasse, Klatt or Potrafke in that Schwarzen Chronicle?

Warmest Regards,

Barbie-Lew

_________________________________________________________________
WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes – enter the Microsoft Office Live Sweepstakes http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/


Re: [HN] Germans of South Africa - was Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/10 12:25:24
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Will,

You probobly know of this possible source about SA Germans.
(Might even include contributions from yourself)

But in the minute chance you haven't stumbled upon..

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/7589/genea_en.html

Barbie-Lew

Hi B.Lew
You are absolutely right.
Dollars is even more expensive.. while the Euro is higher then the $$

I dot quite a bit Pro Deo, for the SA community.. the country is big..and
ppl are not
capable to go to the big cities.. Johannesburg Cape town is 2 hours flight!!
and even you can do that in one day.. you might not find everything in the
archives IN that one day..
So I have quite a list of names to find in Cape town, from all over SA.(and
beyond)
MOst of the emigrating data is in Cape town..
The drive is about 120 miles, but i do it gladly.
I have no family in SA.. so i dont need to search for myself..

Someone has offered me help,and am very grateful for that and there i have
to go to Holland, because my Mom (97) is not quite well, i might be able to
travel to Hannover..and search for myself.
also expensive.. but this is the only way.. and probably less expensive..
then paying 35 Euro per HOUR!!
Best regards
Will


-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]On Behalf Of Cactus Flower
Sent: 10 December 2006 05:02
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover


Lieb Listies,

Our beloved hobby can be expensive.

Catagorized as luxary & entertainment expense item in my budget..:)
Winning the lottery would definately help fund my genealogy wish-list!!!
There is always next month, next year..:) The wish list will keep...and will
probobly get longer.

Thirty-five an hour is expense.. but also I think depends on what you
recieve for that thirty-five dollars.

A local historian familiar with an
archive perhaps can provide you with unexpected results.

I don't know.

I think always a good idea to search out every clue and bit of
information you can find in your own local archives so that you are
absolutely certain that the thirty-five dollars per hour you spend is being
spent wisely.

Barbie-Lew











In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

kirchebuch amt Hannover


Hi Willemine

Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not enough time to make
researches or they say we cant do researches so they give you the name of a
local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people are working "free"
for
the church or the archives. And they want of course money for one hour and
the  price of 35 seems to be ok.

Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself in the archive, but
you know very well even when you live in Germany Hannover is a least 4 hours
by
  car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....

My researcher in Hannover  wants exacly the same price plus the money for
the
copies and depending from the  place were she has to research, a little fee
for the voyage to this town.

Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations for free.... but this
is really rare to find an officer who is doing researches himself ....
anyway
i  found some very nice and gentle persons in the Archive in Bremen and in
Soest.  But usually you have to pay ..

Armin
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now.
http://ideas.live.com


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview


[HN] Sebastian Rautenburg

Date: 2006/12/10 12:57:35
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Sebastian,

I don't remember if I wrote to you about this...

E.F.L. Rautenberg Bio
Lincoln City, Logan County, Illinois..

Source: History of Logan County Illinois...It's past and present..


Publisher: Donnelly,  Loyd & Company Publishers Chicago 1878

If of interest to yourself I can send .pdf of data.

Barbie-Lew

_________________________________________________________________
Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now. http://ideas.live.com


[HN] Pastor Witschiebe

Date: 2006/12/10 15:42:51
From: Erhard Vogt <erhard-vogt(a)versanet.de>

Liebe Listenfreunde,

hat jemand Zugang zu den Büchern "Die Pastoren der Braunschweigischen Landeskirche seit Einführung der Reformation", bearb. von G. Seebaß und F.-W. Freist, Bd. 1 - 3, Wolfenbüttel 1969-1980?

Ich suche einen Pastor Witschiebe, der im 17. Jahrhundert in den Kirchengemeinden Hehlen-Daspe oder Hohe-Brökeln oder woanders im Kreis Holzminden eine Pfarrstelle inne hatte. Eine Tochter von ihm hat in meine Schwiegerfamilie Rennebaum eingeheiratet.

Über eine - direkte - Antwort würde ich mich freuen. Schöne Grüße aus der Rosenstadt im Holsteinischen

Erhard
---------
Erhard Vogt
Jochen-Klepper-Str. 18, 25436 Uetersen
04122/901520, erhard-vogt(a)versanet.de

Re: [HN] Pastor Witschiebe

Date: 2006/12/10 15:53:25
From: Reinhard J. Freytag <Reinhard.Freytag(a)t-online.de>

Aus meiner AL:

1 Heinrich Wittschibie, Brauer, * um 1645 in Hohe Krs.
Holzminden, + nach 1698 in Ottenstein Krs. Holzminden, Beruf
Brauer
 Großköter in Ottenstein auf der Hofstelle ASS 92, Breite
Straße.
Übernimmt den Hof durch Einheirat von seinem Schwiegervater
Johannes Meves. Steuert 1678 in Ottenstein als Brauer. 1730
nach ihm auf der Hofstelle Johann Friedrich Wittschiebe bis
1760.

2 Otto Wittschibie, * um 1620 in Lichtenhagen Krs.
Holzminden(?), + nach 1670
  1.oo um 1645

4 Vorname unbekannt Wittschibie, Pastor, * um 1595 in Hohe
Krs. Holzminden(?), Beruf Pastor
oo um 1620

__________________________________________________
In der Genealogie ist ein Schritt rückwärts
ein Schritt vorwärts

Schöne Grüsse aus unserer
Universitätsstadt Göttingen
Reinhard J. Freytag
genealogie(a)freytag-immo.de


-----Original Message-----
> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:40:18 +0100
> Subject: [HN] Pastor Witschiebe
> From: "Erhard Vogt" 
> To: 

> Liebe Listenfreunde,
> 
> hat jemand Zugang zu den Büchern "Die Pastoren der
Braunschweigischen
> Landeskirche seit Einführung der Reformation", bearb. von
G. Seebaß
> und F.-W. Freist, Bd. 1 - 3, Wolfenbüttel 1969-1980? 
> Ich suche einen Pastor Witschiebe, der im 17. Jahrhundert
in den
> Kirchengemeinden Hehlen-Daspe oder Hohe-Brökeln oder
woanders im Kreis
> Holzminden eine Pfarrstelle inne hatte. Eine Tochter von
ihm hat in
> meine Schwiegerfamilie Rennebaum eingeheiratet.
> 
> Über eine - direkte - Antwort würde ich mich freuen.
Schöne Grüße aus
> der Rosenstadt im Holsteinischen 
> Erhard
> ---------
> Erhard Vogt
> Jochen-Klepper-Str. 18, 25436 Uetersen
> 04122/901520, erhard-vogt(a)versanet.de
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 




Re: [HN] Pastor Witschiebe

Date: 2006/12/10 16:52:55
From: HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de <HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de>

   Hallo Herr Vogt, Heinrich Wittschiebe (mitt zwei t) wurde am 2.
   Februar 1593 in Alfeld getauft, er war Pfarrer in Hohe 1622 - 1678,
   1678 em. Kinder sind im Pfarrerbuch leider nicht angegeben, alles Gute
   Heinrich
   -----Original Message-----
   Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:40:18 +0100
   Subject: [HN] Pastor Witschiebe
   From: "Erhard Vogt" <erhard-vogt(a)versanet.de>
   To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
   Liebe Listenfreunde,
   hat jemand Zugang zu den Büchern "Die Pastoren der Braunschweigischen
   Landeskirche seit Einführung der Reformation", bearb. von G. Seebaß
   und F.-W. Freist, Bd. 1 - 3, Wolfenbüttel 1969-1980?
   Ich suche einen Pastor Witschiebe, der im 17. Jahrhundert in den
   Kirchengemeinden Hehlen-Daspe oder Hohe-Brökeln oder woanders im Kreis
   Holzminden eine Pfarrstelle inne hatte. Eine Tochter von ihm hat in
   meine Schwiegerfamilie Rennebaum eingeheiratet.
   Über eine - direkte - Antwort würde ich mich freuen. Schöne Grüße aus
   der Rosenstadt im Holsteinischen
   Erhard
   ---------
   Erhard Vogt
   Jochen-Klepper-Str. 18, 25436 Uetersen
   04122/901520, erhard-vogt(a)versanet.de
   ______________________________________________
   Hannover-L mailing list
   Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
   http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Pastor Witschiebe

Date: 2006/12/10 17:17:42
From: Reinhard J. Freytag <Reinhard.Freytag(a)t-online.de>

Hallo, heinrich Munk,
vielen Dank. habe "meine" Daten schon ergänzt.
Die stammen aus den Ortschroniken Ottenstein und
Lichtenhagen von Freist.
Dort ist die Rede von einer "Pastorendynastie",
offensichtlich waren nachkommen des heinrich W. auch
Pastoren.

Übrigens geht die Schreibweise quer Beet durcheinander. Wie
das nun mal so war, früher. Wie man hörte, wurds
geschrieben. Und wenn man WITTSCHIEBIE hört, gibt es viele
Variationen, es zu schreiben...

___________________________________________________
In der Genealogie ist ein Schritt rückwärts
ein Schritt vorwärts

Schöne Grüsse aus unserer
Universitätsstadt Göttingen
Reinhard J. Freytag
genealogie(a)freytag-immo.de


-----Original Message-----
> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:49:28 +0100
> Subject: Re: [HN] Pastor Witschiebe
> From: "HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de" 
> To: "Hannover-L" 

> 
> Hallo Herr Vogt, Heinrich Wittschiebe (mitt zwei t) wurde
am 2.
> Februar 1593 in Alfeld getauft, er war Pfarrer in Hohe
1622 - 1678,
> 1678 em. Kinder sind im Pfarrerbuch leider nicht
angegeben, alles Gute
> Heinrich
> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:40:18 +0100
> Subject: [HN] Pastor Witschiebe
> From: "Erhard Vogt" 
> To: 
> Liebe Listenfreunde,
> hat jemand Zugang zu den Büchern "Die Pastoren der
Braunschweigischen
> Landeskirche seit Einführung der Reformation", bearb. von
G. Seebaß
> und F.-W. Freist, Bd. 1 - 3, Wolfenbüttel 1969-1980?
> Ich suche einen Pastor Witschiebe, der im 17. Jahrhundert
in den
> Kirchengemeinden Hehlen-Daspe oder Hohe-Brökeln oder
woanders im Kreis
> Holzminden eine Pfarrstelle inne hatte. Eine Tochter von
ihm hat in
> meine Schwiegerfamilie Rennebaum eingeheiratet.
> Über eine - direkte - Antwort würde ich mich freuen.
Schöne Grüße aus
> der Rosenstadt im Holsteinischen
> Erhard
> ---------
> Erhard Vogt
> Jochen-Klepper-Str. 18, 25436 Uetersen
> 04122/901520, erhard-vogt(a)versanet.de
> ______________________________________________
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 




[HN] Warnecke

Date: 2006/12/10 17:53:45
From: Juergen Drees <J.Drees(a)gmx.net>

[Forwarded message on behalf of "Vertrees Hood" <fofo3(a)sbcglobal.net>]

Looking for the parents of Christian Wilhelm Warnece, born 8 Feb.
1832, Hanover.   What part, I do not know.  But he married 11 May
1862, Alton, Madison, Il. to  Rosina
Christiana Abell, born, 15 Mar 1845, Hanover, where???    Any help
awould be greatly appreciated.
she was Catholic and he was Lutheran.   All their children were
baptized in Salem Lutheran Church, Black Jack, St. Louis Co., MO. 
that is just across the Missouir and
Mississippi Rivers from IL.
 
Vertrees Hood

Re: [HN] Heimathefte

Date: 2006/12/10 19:26:45
From: IGO-Firma <igo(a)firma-kessel.de>

Hallo Karlo, leider liegt die mail schon ein bisken zurück, da ich vieles 
zum Lesen weggelegt hatte.
Nun entdecke ich, dass Du Harzheft gebrauchen kannst. Ich schau mal nach, 
was ich habe aus dem Bestand meiner Schwiegermutter. Wenn Du das gebrauchen 
kannst, schick ich es Dir. Immer hatte ich vor. sie einzuscannen, aber nie 
Gelegenheit bis auf einige weggeschickte Artikel.Für heute liebe Grüsse 
Ingrid (Gottschalk)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karlo Vegelahn" <Archiv.Vegelahn(a)t-online.de>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 10:57 PM
Subject: [HN] Heimathefte


Hallo Heimatfreunde
Unter dem Link
 http://www.archiv-vegelahn.de/lerbacher_heimatblaetter.html
befindet sich ein Gesamtverzeichnis der "Lerbacher Heimatblätter"

Verzeichnisse zu weiten Heimatheften und Zeitschriften Niedersachsen / Harz 
sind unter folgenden Link zu finden:

http://www.archiv-vegelahn.de/ortsgeschichte.html

Leider fehlen mir auch noch einige ältere Heft, vielleicht kann mir dieser 
oder jener weiter helfen.
Da ich dies alles Privat mach sollten die Angebote in einen bezahlbaren 
Rahmen sein.
Gibt es im Netz noch andere Verzeichnisse von Heimatheften - Bereich 
Niedersachsen?
Einen schönen Abend
wünscht
Karlo Vegelahn

-- 
Archiv & Bibliothek
Karlo Vegelahn
Haupstr.93/93a
(37508) Postfach 1847
37520 Osterode am Harz

www.archiv-vegelahn.de


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[HN] Schwarze Chronik Hambug 4, KLANT, STAHL, HABERLANDT, BISKUP, BENZ, REHER, SCHUHMACHER, MEYER, BARKHAN, DALESKAS, WESTFELD, KARGL, WONG CHU, URBAHNS, BUCHHOLZ, KROLL, EICHENWALD, ELKAN NATHAN, SODARZEK, WAGENER, ORENSTEIN, GROOT, HORSTMANN, TIMM, DIECKMANN, THIES, LINK, HEIL, BLUMENTHAL, KUHR, LANGEMAACK, DOLAN, SCHWINDT, ROSENFELD, HAMECHER, KAPHAMMEL, GRIESINGER

Date: 2006/12/10 19:39:59
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

eine weitere Fortsetzung aus (another sequel of Hamburg criminal history out of)
EBELING, Helmut: Schwarze Chronik einer Weltstadt. Hamburger Kriminalgeschichte 1919 bis 1945, Hamburg. Kabel Verlag 1980:

"...1924

 1. 2.24  Prozeß gegen Joseph KLANT wegen Weiterführung der verbotenen NSDAP.
 1. 3.24  Großer Buntmetalldiebstahls-Prozeß gegen Friedhofsdiebe (Urnen pp.), 19 Angeklagte
24. 3.24  Raubüberfall auf Werftdirektor STAHL (Vulkanwerft) in seiner Wohnung Bebelallee 12; 
                    Täter HABERLANDT; Proz. 27.2.26
26. 3.24  Gattenmord an Ehefrau BISKUP, Klosterstr. 20; Proz.: 27.2.26
15. 4.24  Festnahme des Schwerverbrecher BENZ (Einbruch)
20. 5.24  Mord am Gemeindewächter Ernst REHER in Rahlstedt; Täter: O.KREDT (Proz: 11.12.25) und 
                    Th.SCHUHMACHER (Proz. 18.2.26)
27. 9.24  Kriminalassistent Franz MEYER bei Auseinandersetzung Stahlhelm/Reichsbanner in Al-
                     tona erschossen.Proz.: 26.6.25
 6.10.24  Gattenmordversuch an Ehefrau Amanda BARKHAHN, Proz.: 2.12.24
10.11.24  Mord an Thomas DALESKAS, Knickweg 8; Täter: Fr. WESTFELD
18.12.24  Festnahme des Fassadenkletterers Karl KARGL (100 Fälle); Proz. 13.5.26

... 1925

 1. 1.25  Mord an dem Chinesen WONG CHU im Keller Schmuckstr. 7 (ungeklärt)
22. 1.25  Beginn des Hamburger Kommunistenprozesses gegen URBAHNS u.a. (Oktoberunruhen 1923); 
                      Urteil 18.2.25
29. 1.25  Erster Prozß geg.den Wunderdoktor Ernst BUCHHOLZ (Haardiagnostik nach Schäfer-Ast)
 5. 6.25  Meuterei im Zuchthaus Fuhlsbüttel; dabei KROLL und EICHENWALD erschossen; Proz.: 
                       25.1.26
16. 6.25  Sittenprozeß gegen ELKAN NATHAN
 2. 7.25  In Hamburg stehen 2500 Dirnen unter Kontrolle
14. 7.25  Dirnenmord an Helene SODARZEK, Erichstr. 49; Täter: E.WAGENER; Proz. 13.3.26
29. 7.25  Kokainschieber-Prozeß ORENSTEIN.
28.10.25  Großbetrügereien mit Abtreibungstees und Abtreibungsmitteln aufgedeckt (GROOT und 
                       HORSTMANN); Proz.: 8.10.26. Ein weiterer Prozeß: 15.5.33

... 1926

16. 1.26  Mord an Ehefrau Frieda TIMM, Dorotheenstr. 180; Täter: W.und F. DIECKMANN; Proz. 
                        18.6.26
 5. 2.26  Mord an Meta THIES, Speckstr. 70, Täter: Otto LINK, Frau HEIL; Proz.: 16.6.26
17. 3.26  Unterschlagungsprozeß Max BLUMENTHAL (250 000 Mark)
25. 4.26  Prozeß gegen den "Erfinder" Johann KUHR (Benzol aus Wasser)
 9. 6.26  Schmugglerprozeß Gustav LANGEMAACK (Rauschgift pp.)
12. 6.26  Sprenstoffattentäter-Prozeß (Organisation Consul), (Thälmann-Attentat pp.); 
          s.a.17.6.22. ... (da: Attentat auf Thälmann-Wohnung Siemsenstr. ...,Anm. HPA)
24. 6.26  Rauschgiftaffäre James DOLAN
13. 8.26  Festnahme des "Bohrerkönigs" Otto SCHWINDT und Komplizen Louis ROSENFELD
25. 8.26  Gattenmord an Ehefrau KLAGES, Morathstr. 5
 1.10.26  Zweiter Prozeß gegen "Wunderdoktor" Ernst BUCHHOLZ
29.11.26  Raubmord an Hermann HAMECHER, Hohe Bleichen 24; Täter KAPHAMMEL und GRIESINGER;                     
                              Proz.5.4.27 ...."

Fortsetzung folgt. Is to be continued.

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel



Re: [HN] Schwarzen Chronicle Question

Date: 2006/12/10 19:40:00
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"Cactus Flower" <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com> schrieb:
> Lieb Hans,
> 
> What is the Schwarzen Chronicle?

It is a history about crime in Hamburg between 1919 and 1945 including political crime also as other civil criminal events. 
> 
> This data was included..
> 
> 26.1.19 Mord an Anna HOFFMANN geb.BOJENS, Querstr. 1; Täter Otto LORENZ

unfortunately no more detils given in the book. For more one has to study the documents of the police archive or perhaps state archive, if already handed over there and were found remarkable enough to be stored there.

> The ship arrival list for my fathers uncle Karl Schmidt indicates he was 
> born in Geesthacht.
> 
> His wife Dora (Klatt) Schmidt address is listed:
> Bergedorf Querstr II.  The year is 1928.
> 
> Would this address neighbor Querstr. 1?
 
It was not earlier than 1939, when outskirts as for example Bergedorf were ibnorporated to the territory of the City of Hamburg. The law made therefore was called "Groß-Hamburg-Ge-setz". It was then that streetnames were inspected and doublings of names "repaired" by renaming some of them. "Querstraße" should have been existent at sveral places before. One in Bergedorf, another was in St.Pauly nearby the famous nightlife of the "Reeperbahn". As I don`t know if there was also one or two more "Querstr.", I cannot say definetely yes or no. It is possible, but as the author in other cases mentions Bergedorf as the locality even when being already part of Hamburg, I would assume: more probably "no".

> At:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geesthacht#History
> 
> Mentions 1918-1933 hotbed of  radical leftist parties .... nickname Little 
> Moscow...

That is right if you take the pure facts. Like in every larger town also Hamburg was a centre for political activities of the times. Because of the larger percentage of workers among the people in comparison with the rurale population in the plane country, there were of course also centered interests of worker parties. I don`t know the article in wikipedia and cannot say, what is meant exactly by "hotbed" in this context, found the translation "Brutstätte".
So it is not a too analytical term for historical activities, but if used one has to state, it was something like that for all parties and polzical directions. Streetfights between right wing and left wing parties weren`t daily but regularly in the late twenties and early thirtees. These mass conflicts had as a proposition almost equal sides in these fights. The nickname "Little Moscow" is not documented as a special Hamburg local term, but should have been in use in the times very often by the enemies of socialist and communist parties and in the end by the national socialist wherever three people stood together and were suspected to be in sympathy with these. 
> 
> Mentions 1928 destruction of the historical town center.

It must have been then, that a large street was broken straight through the city of Bergedorf.  
> 
> Some of the surnames mentioned in your posts about Schwarzen Chronicle I 
> have come across in the midwest as I methodically search for possible 
> connections to my Sahs/Sass and Schmidt ancestors many of those 
> surnames..though not any particular proof that they actually relate to my 
> own family..
> 
> I think Geesthacht (if I am correct) is about 10 miles from Bergedorf.  I 
> think I have an old picture that grandparents marked Bergedorfer 
> Strasse**..Also one marked Bergedorfer Schloss-park.

If it is still the same Bergedorferstr. as today, it is exactly the street mentioned above, passing through the former centre of Bergedorf. The Bergedorfer Schloßpark should be same today, as it was and is situated north to the very centre, but still being part of it too.
 
> * Bergedorfer Strasse - If I understand correctly ... might be associated 
> with Geesthacht?
>
Again there might be a doubling of "Bergedorfer Str.", one in Bergedorf,respectively Hamburg and another one in Geesthacht, which is already part of the country Schleswig-Holstein. 

> Gosh..
> 
> Could I have criminal ancestors?

I would be surprised, if not, because if you dig enough, you will find some in every genealo-gy. Some hundred (or only 50 ?) years back "survival of the fittest" was not a mere principle for the beasty world. If the medieval living was right or not and by that crime should be a thing of definition. Right in history often was, what the mighty defined as right. A lawyer of today would speak about as murder, burglary or other criminal act. So the answer is unfortunately as in every case: yes.

> Did you find and data of the surnames Schmidt, Sahs, Sass, Sasse, Klatt or 
> Potrafke in that Schwarzen Chronicle?

The directory lists only differnt SCHMIDT
- Schmidt, Pol.Owm.,p. 409 Street-Policeman
- Schmidt, Ernst,p. 272, played a role as KPD member Nov.1931 as ahelp for escape to Moscow              
                    of a man named HANSEN, who had become a bankrobber on 30.October 1931
- Schmidt, Krim-Sekr. p.267 Police Detective
- Schmidt, Steinmetz = stone mason 131, mentioned as a master of an yuvenile criminal living 
                  on a place named Käthnerort

Potrafke is not given, the only similar name is POTRAHR. He was the driver of the still wellknown family REEMTSMA. Perhaps you remember, some years ago there was a kidnapping with lots of millions, a world wide story. Here, it was a crime of murder. The housekeeping woman Else KLEIST,born in Gülzow, Mecklenburg in 1906, was murdered. POTRAHR the driver of the family made important statements to the police to find the murderer a man named BECKER. 
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Barbie-Lew

The same to you and good luck on your ways.

hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel


Re: [HN] Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 37, Eintrag 26

Date: 2006/12/10 20:32:46
From: Erhard Vogt <erhard-vogt(a)versanet.de>

Hallo Herr Freytag
und hallo Herr Munk

vielen Dank für Ihre schnellen und umfassenden Antworten.

Schöne Grüße

Erhard (Vogt)

Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:40:18 +0100
From: "Erhard Vogt" <erhard-vogt(a)versanet.de>
Subject: [HN] Pastor Witschiebe

Liebe Listenfreunde,

hat jemand Zugang zu den Büchern "Die Pastoren der Braunschweigischen
Landeskirche seit Einführung der Reformation", bearb. von G. Seebaß und
F.-W. Freist, Bd. 1 - 3, Wolfenbüttel 1969-1980?

Ich suche einen Pastor Witschiebe, der im 17. Jahrhundert in den
Kirchengemeinden Hehlen-Daspe oder Hohe-Brökeln oder woanders im Kreis
Holzminden eine Pfarrstelle inne hatte. Eine Tochter von ihm hat in meine
Schwiegerfamilie Rennebaum eingeheiratet.

Über eine - direkte - Antwort würde ich mich freuen. Schöne Grüße aus der
Rosenstadt im Holsteinischen

Erhard
---------
Erhard Vogt
Jochen-Klepper-Str. 18, 25436 Uetersen
04122/901520, erhard-vogt(a)versanet.de

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:53:05 +0100
From: "Reinhard J. Freytag" <Reinhard.Freytag(a)t-online.de>

Aus meiner AL:

1 Heinrich Wittschibie, Brauer, * um 1645 in Hohe Krs.
Holzminden, + nach 1698 in Ottenstein Krs. Holzminden, Beruf
Brauer
 Großköter in Ottenstein auf der Hofstelle ASS 92, Breite
Straße.
Übernimmt den Hof durch Einheirat von seinem Schwiegervater
Johannes Meves. Steuert 1678 in Ottenstein als Brauer. 1730
nach ihm auf der Hofstelle Johann Friedrich Wittschiebe bis
1760.

2 Otto Wittschibie, * um 1620 in Lichtenhagen Krs.
Holzminden(?), + nach 1670
  1.oo um 1645

4 Vorname unbekannt Wittschibie, Pastor, * um 1595 in Hohe
Krs. Holzminden(?), Beruf Pastor
oo um 1620

__________________________________________________
In der Genealogie ist ein Schritt rückwärts
ein Schritt vorwärts

Schöne Grüsse aus unserer
Universitätsstadt Göttingen
Reinhard J. Freytag
genealogie(a)freytag-immo.de


Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:49:28 +0100
From: "HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de" <HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de>
   Hallo Herr Vogt, Heinrich Wittschiebe (mitt zwei t) wurde am 2.
   Februar 1593 in Alfeld getauft, er war Pfarrer in Hohe 1622 - 1678,
   1678 em. Kinder sind im Pfarrerbuch leider nicht angegeben, alles Gute
   Heinrich

Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 17:17:19 +0100
From: "Reinhard J. Freytag" <Reinhard.Freytag(a)t-online.de>

Hallo, heinrich Munk,
vielen Dank. habe "meine" Daten schon ergänzt.
Die stammen aus den Ortschroniken Ottenstein und
Lichtenhagen von Freist.
Dort ist die Rede von einer "Pastorendynastie",
offensichtlich waren nachkommen des heinrich W. auch
Pastoren.

Übrigens geht die Schreibweise quer Beet durcheinander. Wie
das nun mal so war, früher. Wie man hörte, wurds
geschrieben. Und wenn man WITTSCHIEBIE hört, gibt es viele
Variationen, es zu schreiben...

___________________________________________________
In der Genealogie ist ein Schritt rückwärts
ein Schritt vorwärts

Schöne Grüsse aus unserer
Universitätsstadt Göttingen
Reinhard J. Freytag
genealogie(a)freytag-immo.de


Re: [HN] kirchenbuch amt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/10 21:24:13
From: Maureen <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>

I used to do cemetery photos and asked just for price of film, developing and mailing prints to them. Many people were very offended, never considering my gasoline and a whole day of my time to do all that!

You are very generous Susanne. I wish my ancestors were in Leese and I could share in your kindness and willingness for those who are researching there! How lucky these people, who have their ancestors in Leese!

Maureen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Susanne Schmitz" <su-schmitz(a)gmx.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] kirchenbuch amt Hannover


Hello Wilhelmine,

Someone in the group mentioned 'working with the churchbook
1654-1753..(Leese)
Is there a site where a person can look names up digitally??

That`s me, who is reading the churchbooks of Leese - but not online! I
sometimes go to the churchoffice and read in the original books.
Without permission of the church, who is owner of the books, it is not
possible to put all the information into the net.
So for you so far away is no other possibility than to pay charge for
someone doing this work. The charge of 8 Euros I have to pay when I go to
the Kirchenbuchamt and do the research by myself.

MfG          Susanne
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Re: [HN] Schwarzen Chronicle Question

Date: 2006/12/10 23:12:35
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com> wrote on 12/10:

Some of the surnames mentioned in your posts about Schwarzen Chronicle I have come across in the midwest as I methodically search for possible connections to my Sahs/Sass and Schmidt ancestors many of those surnames..though not any particular proof that they actually relate to my own family..

I think Geesthacht (if I am correct) is about 10 miles from Bergedorf. I think I have an old picture that grandparents marked Bergedorfer Strasse**..Also one marked Bergedorfer Schloss-park.

* Bergedorfer Strasse - If I understand correctly ... might be associated with Geesthacht?

Gosh..

Could I have criminal ancestors?

OMG :-O

So the secret is out Barbie. Care to tell us more?  <g>

"Little Moscow" says enough. All Spartacists must unite! Not to worry, if HPA keeps digging up those Hamburger Kriminalgeschichte pages, soon every one of our families will be embarrassed. You find the same thing in the States when you plunge deep enough into the record crypts (and really, anywhere else on the globe where good recordkeeping is to be found). My own family lines certainly have their fair share, from revolutionists to all around trouble-makers. "Lassen Sie uns Wellen bilden" is inscribed on our family coat of arms (purchased at discount from Mayfair). Hmmm goes a long way towards explaining certain things, now doesn't it? <blush>

But HP is most certainly correct here. It seems it is only a matter of time before we uncover a number of "skeletons in the closet" when digging through dusty vaults. But so what? All this amounts to is a rather telling reflection of human nature in its full kaleidoscope display. And let's be real: who here isn't guilty of a few notable indiscretions along the way, perhaps even "criminal" in at least one rendering of the definition (or at least in the mind); and if not, then perhaps simple acts of deceit?

Now I choose to hedge a bit on the definition of "criminal" since political leanings and actions will often be involved, and in this regard, many "criminal" definitions might as well be thrown out the window. A revolutionist (or crusader to flip the coin) is only as good as the cause he or she fights for; the righteousness or justification of the cause will often be nebulous at best, and almost always open to debate. Generally it comes down to what side of the fence you happen to find yourself on or align yourself to, or if you buy into what the state (ergo status quo) defines as politically "criminal" (Unionists, Atheists, Commies and Klansmen all come to mind as well known bogeymen of this stripe at various times, regardless of the actual actions of the individuals involved).

One can imagine what old King George III and the British Crown thought of those revolutionary "criminals" who comprised the Boston Tea Party, or the "criminal" scoundrels who had the audacity to lay down their signatures on that fabled American Declaration of Independence. If you ask me, what we really need more than ever is a new 21st century class called "Corporate Globalists" to replace the worn out "Robber Baron" category of the past. Few of those cats would be exempt by definition.

This also reminds me of those splendid snippets we often hear that poke fun at that class of furry cretins called lawyers (and their big brothers in arms called politicians), all of whom rate just above used car salesmen in surveys of "trustworthiness." It seems just about everyone disparages them until they actually need one, and an overwhelming amount of people agree they stink as a whole -- except their own (sadly enough).

Please count me in here too though. Lawyer jokes remain priceless, and most politicians I have little (ok no) need for, unless it's to help line my squiggly pocket. I trust any given farmer on his tractor far more. ;)

----

Hans Peter <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de> wrote on 12/10:

That is right if you take the pure facts. Like in every larger town also Hamburg was a centre for political activities of the times. Because of the larger percentage of workers among the people in comparison with the rurale population in the plane country, there were of course also centered interests of worker parties. I don`t know the article in wikipedia and cannot say, what is meant exactly by "hotbed" in this context, found the translation "Brutstätte".

"Brutstätte" is accurate. Also "Mistbeet" I think. In English, "cause" or "source of generation" on the generic (milder) side; "powder keg" and "trouble spot" when colored for emphasis (for any Deutschmeisters following along). Or just use the initials "Jb"! ;)

Jb

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[HN] Story of Gartenweg 6

Date: 2006/12/11 04:01:12
From: Allen T. <athn(a)alltel.net>

Greetings Hannover Listers,

I want to thank those of you who have given me feedback on my questions regarding the address of Gartenweg 6 in Hannover. I especially want thank Susanne, Barbara, Holger,and Jürgen. I appreciate your willingness to try and solve this riddle. I will continue to work on this project as I gather new information. I would like to share with you how I came about searching for an address in Germany.

William Dennett Thigpen was orphaned in 1911 at the age of 16, along with nine brothers and sisters. He joined the Navy and later worked as an assistant engineer on various freighter ships. I discovered a note from my grandfather that said William married a German girl after leaving the Navy. No one in the family had any knowledge of her beyond stories that had been passed down since the 1920's. And what a story. William is believed to have been murdered on the way to visit his siblings in north Florida sometime between 1925 - 1930. Positive identification was not made and a grave cannot be located. I was not even sure the stories about his German wife were true until I found the immigration records using ancestry.com. I found three port entry records for Karoline Thigpen. In her first immigration record, she indicated that she had never been to the the US before and that she was married to William Thigpen. This was in 1925. In 1930, on her second entry, she is a widow--as she is on the 1930, Paterson, NJ census. Nine records can be found for William Thigpen as a crew member of various ships. The last entry is in the fall of 1925, several months after Karoline made her first entry.

Because William Thigpen was an orphan, and did not really have a home to go to in north Florida, I suspect that Karoline did not know enough about his brothers and sisters to try to contact them. She arrived in America and in a very short time was all alone.

I want to locate her family in Hannover. The last known residence of Karoline is in the Bronx, New York in 1937. I am currently waiting to hear back from sources that may give me a clue as to her life in Paterson, NJ and in NY. I have also ordered a roll of marriage records for the Limmer region of Hannover. Since she stated that she was married before her first port entry, it follows that she was married to William in Germany. She made two trips back to Germany after William died. The last trip was in 1937. It is possible that someone who was at her family's home in Germany at that time is still alive. That is why I want to locate the family that resided at Garteweg 6 in Hannover in 1925.

Best regards,
Allen Thigpen





Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/11 09:28:29
From: Esther van Rems-Dijkstra <esthervanrems(a)gmail.com>

Isn't there a way, to just write to the archieve, 35 euro is really
expensive and in the Netherland the archives charge about 20 euro per hour.

Esther

2006/12/10, Will J van Dreven-Lieuwes <vandreve(a)iafrica.com>:

Hi B.Lew
You are absolutely right.
Dollars is even more expensive.. while the Euro is higher then the $$

I dot quite a bit Pro Deo, for the SA community.. the country is big..and
ppl are not
capable to go to the big cities.. Johannesburg Cape town is 2 hours
flight!!
and even you can do that in one day.. you might not find everything in the
archives IN that one day..
So I have quite a list of names to find in Cape town, from all over
SA.(and
beyond)
MOst of the emigrating data is in Cape town..
The drive is about 120 miles, but i do it gladly.
I have no family in SA.. so i dont need to search for myself..

Someone has offered me help,and am very grateful for that and there i have
to go to Holland, because my Mom (97) is not quite well, i might be able
to
travel to Hannover..and search for myself.
also expensive.. but this is the only way.. and probably less expensive..
then paying 35 Euro per HOUR!!
Best regards
Will


-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]On Behalf Of Cactus Flower
Sent: 10 December 2006 05:02
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover


Lieb Listies,

Our beloved hobby can be expensive.

Catagorized as luxary & entertainment expense item in my budget..:)
Winning the lottery would definately help fund my genealogy wish-list!!!
There is always next month, next year..:) The wish list will keep...and
will
probobly get longer.

Thirty-five an hour is expense.. but also I think depends on what you
recieve for that thirty-five dollars.  A local historian familiar with an
archive perhaps can provide you with unexpected results. I don't know.  I
think always a good idea to search out everything clue and bit of
information you can find in your own local archives so that you are
absolutely certain that the thirty-five dollars per hour you spend is
being
spent wisely.

Barbie-Lew











In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

kirchebuch amt Hannover


Hi Willemine

Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not enough time to make
researches or they say we cant do researches so they give you the name of
a
local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people are working
"free"
for
the church or the archives. And they want of course money for one hour and
the  price of 35 seems to be ok.

Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself in the archive, but
you know very well even when you live in Germany Hannover is a least 4
hours
by
  car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....

My researcher in Hannover  wants exacly the same price plus the money for
the
copies and depending from the  place were she has to research, a little
fee
for the voyage to this town.

Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations for free.... but
this
is really rare to find an officer who is doing researches himself ....
anyway
i  found some very nice and gentle persons in the Archive in Bremen and in
Soest.  But usually you have to pay ..

Armin
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[HN] Help

Date: 2006/12/11 17:05:44
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

I know that this is not in the true purpose of this list but I am sure some of my cyber space friends will respond. I need the correct German spelling and form for 'Mr. and Mrs. John Doe and Family". I wish to send Christmas Greetings to some dear friends I have met personally and on line. 
Thank you,   Max

[HN] Braunschweig - Ahnen - Bilder

Date: 2006/12/11 17:19:34
From: Klaus Riecken <klaus(a)riecken-online.de>

Braunschweig - Ahnen - Bilder


Liebe Mitleser,

auf der Suche nach weiteren Informationen stieß ich auf:

Brunswiek 1031
Braunschweig 1981
hrsg. Städtisches Museum Braunschweig
Festschrift zur Ausstellung
hrsg Gerd Spies

Bilder:
Joachim Mörlin um 1665
Georg Conrad und Blandine von Vechelde um 1720
Tile II. von Vechelde um 1570
Hermann X von Vechelde um 1570
Tile IV von Vechelde um 1603
Dietrich Bierbaum um 1624
Anna Kalm um 1651
Eva von Lüneburg um m1640
Albert Bussmann um 1576
Dioetrich Kostede um 1570
Martin und Anna Chemnitz um 1569
Johannes und Katharina Lorbeer um 1580
Reinhard u. Gese Reiners um 1569
Anna Kale um 1583

alle schwarz weiß, großformatig

viele Bilder der Familie Dedekind

Johann Camman der Jüngere vor 1649

Epitaph für Joachim Jordan um 1629
Arendt Sauer um 1637
Christina Hildebrandt geb. Kruse um 1627
Hermann Conerding um 1620
Johann Cammann d. Ältere
Johann Döring um 1578
Büste Jan Lutma d. Ältere um 1681
Melanchthon und Lutter

Johann Heinrich Schiller um 1820
Friedrich Wilhelm Richter vor 1791
Johann Heinrich Wilmerding jun. vor 1828
Großbürgermeister Conrad Hildebrandt um 1627

Viele Grüße

Klaus (Riecken)
www.Riecken-online.de

[HN] Fw: Braunschweig - Ahnen - Bilder

Date: 2006/12/11 18:36:09
From: Klaus Riecken <klaus(a)riecken-online.de>


----- Original Message ----- From: "Klaus Riecken" <klaus(a)riecken-online.de> To: <niederelbe(a)ahnenforschungen.de>; "Hannover -Liste" <Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net>; "HAMBURG GenGes" <gengeshh(a)genealogy.net>; "FamNord" <famnord(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 5:19 PM
Subject: Braunschweig - Ahnen - Bilder


Braunschweig - Ahnen - Bilder


Liebe Mitleser,

auf der Suche nach weiteren Informationen stieß ich auf:

Brunswiek 1031
Braunschweig 1981
hrsg. Städtisches Museum Braunschweig
Festschrift zur Ausstellung
hrsg Gerd Spies

Bilder:
Joachim Mörlin um 1665
Georg Conrad und Blandine von Vechelde um 1720
Tile II. von Vechelde um 1570
Hermann X von Vechelde um 1570
Tile IV von Vechelde um 1603
Dietrich Bierbaum um 1624
Anna Kalm um 1651
Eva von Lüneburg um m1640
Albert Bussmann um 1576
Dioetrich Kostede um 1570
Martin und Anna Chemnitz um 1569
Johannes und Katharina Lorbeer um 1580
Reinhard u. Gese Reiners um 1569
Anna Kale um 1583

alle schwarz weiß, großformatig

viele Bilder der Familie Dedekind

Johann Camman der Jüngere vor 1649

Epitaph für Joachim Jordan um 1629
Arendt Sauer um 1637
Christina Hildebrandt geb. Kruse um 1627
Hermann Conerding um 1620
Johann Cammann d. Ältere
Johann Döring um 1578
Büste Jan Lutma d. Ältere um 1681
Melanchthon und Lutter

Johann Heinrich Schiller um 1820
Friedrich Wilhelm Richter vor 1791
Johann Heinrich Wilmerding jun. vor 1828
Großbürgermeister Conrad Hildebrandt um 1627

Viele Grüße

Klaus (Riecken)
www.Riecken-online.de


[HN] 184th General Hospital at WWII

Date: 2006/12/11 19:22:13
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

I found a passenger list of the Qeen Mary, arrival New York 9.Nov.1945.

Unit Designation: 184th General Hospital, Stat. Code UBU

This list list included:
- Honkomp Margaret M. (32), Rank 1st Lt, ASR 55, ASN N-733977, Arm on Service ANC

Can anybody explain me the list?

Thank you,
Werner
---------------------------------------------------------
Werner Honkomp                  werner(a)honkomp.de
Ziegelhofstr. 35b                    www.honkomp.de
26121 Oldenburg                 Tel: 0441-87230, Fax: 0441-883499

Re: [HN] 184th General Hospital at WWII

Date: 2006/12/11 19:30:21
From: Joel S. Russell <jsruss(a)mindspring.com>

Werner,

I'm not positive, but  I think

ASR = Army Service Record (?)
ASN = Army Serial Number
"Arm on Service" should read "Arm of Service" ANC = Army Nursing Corps

Regards,

Joel

At 01:22 PM 12/11/2006, you wrote:
I found a passenger list of the Qeen Mary, arrival New York 9.Nov.1945.

Unit Designation: 184th General Hospital, Stat. Code UBU

This list list included:
- Honkomp Margaret M. (32), Rank 1st Lt, ASR 55, ASN N-733977, Arm on Service ANC

Can anybody explain me the list?

Thank you,
Werner
---------------------------------------------------------
Werner Honkomp                  werner(a)honkomp.de
Ziegelhofstr. 35b                    www.honkomp.de
26121 Oldenburg                 Tel: 0441-87230, Fax: 0441-883499
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Hannover area names

Date: 2006/12/11 20:13:21
From: cindy nielsen <nielsencindy(a)hotmail.com>


11 Dec. 2006
Monday

I am looking for my ancestors who live in Schoepfsdorf/Schoepsdorf, Germany. I know they arrived in the US in 1858, but can find no further information going back. My maternal grandfather's name was Zeno Tranel (1905-1993). What I do know about the family is that they were very "secretive"
as to why they left Germany.  Can anyone please help?  Thank You.


Cindy Nielsen
Volunteer Genealogist
East Dubuque District Library

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tcode=wlmtagline


[HN] 19th century German censuses

Date: 2006/12/11 20:23:45
From: K E <kenofnocal(a)yahoo.com>

Greetings,

I'm wondering if someone might be able to answer a few
basic questions about German censuses. Specifically,
I'd like to know when census data was first collected,
whether there are census records for the Kingdom of
Hanover during the 19th century, and how I might
access records for the Harz Mountains region (Herzberg
am Harz, Osterode am Harz, etc). I'm trying to
determine if there was a Hempel family in the region
during that period.

Thanks for any insights you may have.

Best regards,

Kenneth

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [HN] Help

Date: 2006/12/11 20:45:56
From: Holger Bremer <holgerbremer(a)googlemail.com>

Herrn und Frau Doe und Familie

2006/12/11, pharmaxx(a)charter.net <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>:

I know that this is not in the true purpose of this list but I am sure
some of my cyber space friends will respond. I need the correct German
spelling and form for 'Mr. and Mrs. John Doe and Family". I wish to send
Christmas Greetings to some dear friends I have met personally and on line.
Thank you,   Max
______________________________________________

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Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Help

Date: 2006/12/11 20:59:48
From: Jurgen Schwiening <schwiening(a)tesco.net>

You'll probably get different replies to this but I would write either Herrn
und Frau Doe und Familie or John und ? Doe und Familie. Does it really
matter?
Jürgen 

-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Holger Bremer
Sent: 11 December 2006 19:46
To: Hannover-L
Subject: Re: [HN] Help

Herrn und Frau Doe und Familie

2006/12/11, pharmaxx(a)charter.net <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>:
>
> I know that this is not in the true purpose of this list but I am sure
> some of my cyber space friends will respond. I need the correct German
> spelling and form for 'Mr. and Mrs. John Doe and Family". I wish to send
> Christmas Greetings to some dear friends I have met personally and on
line.
> Thank you,   Max
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Hannover area names

Date: 2006/12/11 21:20:41
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Dear Cindy,
        You can see several Tranel names here:

               http://www.emslanders.com/tra.htm

        That whole website has emigrants who came from the Emsland (along
the Ems river) near the Dutch border.

       Also, look here for Tranel and you will find them in the towns of
Lingen and Emsburen.

Good  luck,
Barbara


on 12/11/06 12:13 PM, cindy nielsen at nielsencindy(a)hotmail.com wrote:

> 
> 11 Dec. 2006
> Monday
> 
> I am looking for my ancestors who live in Schoepfsdorf/Schoepsdorf, Germany.
> I know they arrived in the US in 1858, but can find no further information
> going back.  My maternal grandfather's name was Zeno Tranel (1905-1993).
> What I do know about the family is that they were very "secretive"
> as to why they left Germany.  Can anyone please help?  Thank You.
> 
> 
> Cindy Nielsen
> Volunteer Genealogist
> East Dubuque District Library
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style,
> age, and price. Try it!
> http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tcod
> e=wlmtagline
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] 184th General Hospital at WWII

Date: 2006/12/11 21:43:30
From: svcygnus <svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com>

Werner,
   The Queen Mary was probably being used as a troop transport returning the
military hospital personnel (and perhaps patients)from Europe after the end of
WWII.
Don Roddy



----- Message from werner(a)honkomp.de ---------
    Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:22:00 +0100 (MET)
    From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
 Subject: [HN] 184th General Hospital at WWII
      To: Hannover-l(a)genealogy.net, oldenburg-l(a)genealogy.net



I found a passenger list of the Qeen Mary, arrival New York 9.Nov.1945.

Unit Designation: 184th General Hospital, Stat. Code UBU

This list list included:
- Honkomp Margaret M. (32), Rank 1st Lt, ASR 55, ASN N-733977, Arm on Service ANC

Can anybody explain me the list?

Thank you,
Werner
---------------------------------------------------------
Werner Honkomp                  werner(a)honkomp.de
Ziegelhofstr. 35b                    www.honkomp.de
26121 Oldenburg                 Tel: 0441-87230, Fax: 0441-883499
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



----- End message from werner(a)honkomp.de -----



[HN] Güldener, Johann Bernhard August

Date: 2006/12/11 22:40:30
From: RuetherFF <RuetherFF(a)aol.com>

 
Hallo Listenteilnehmer, 
gesucht wird die Herkunft von 
Güldener, Johann Bernhard  August 
Rezeptor (telanii praefectus et  oeconomus) des Amtes Poppenburg im Stift 
Hildesheim 
*~  
5  22. 5.1740 Poppenburg 
oo I. vor 1698 Bösen, Margarethe Elisabeth ~ 22. 9.1680 Poppenburg, + um 1712 
oo II.  Buschen, Ottona Ursula  ~ 14.6.1685 Drispenstedt,  + 11.10.1728  
oo III. 8.2.1729 Marienrode von  Nesselrode, Marie Magdalene Ferdinande 
Therese 
Über eine Antwort würde ich mich  freuen. 
Viele Grüße 
F.- Franz Rüther 
Mülheim-  Ruhr 


[HN] Genal / Tegeder / Reese

Date: 2006/12/11 22:59:51
From: RuetherFF <RuetherFF(a)aol.com>

Hallo Listenteilnehmer,
 
über folgende Vorfahren hätte ich gern weitere Informationen:
 
Genal, Anna Maria                                                             
                                  
 
~    9. 7.1730  Minden Dom 
+   nach 1771 
oo  vor 1760 
Reese, Franziscus Andreas 
Administrator in Niesen Ksp.  Fölsen Stift Paderborn 
* 
+  nach 1771 
Eltern: 
Genal,  M. Hermann 
* 
+ 
oo 
Tegeder,  Anna Maria 
* 
+ 
Viele Grüße 
F.- Franz Rüther 
Mülheim-  Ruhr

Re: [HN] Hannover area names

Date: 2006/12/11 23:15:58
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Cindy,
       I neglected to give you the site for the Lingen and Emsburen search:

http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp

   Do a search with just the name of Tranel and you will find the listings.
On the far right, click and you will get the Ortsfamilienbuchs of Lingen and
Emsburen and you will find Tranels there.

Barbara




on 12/11/06 1:20 PM, R&B Stewart at raybarbara(a)comcast.net wrote:

> Dear Cindy,
> You can see several Tranel names here:
> 
> http://www.emslanders.com/tra.htm
> 
> That whole website has emigrants who came from the Emsland (along
> the Ems river) near the Dutch border.
> 
> Also, look here for Tranel and you will find them in the towns of
> Lingen and Emsburen.
> 
> Good  luck,
> Barbara
> 
> 
> on 12/11/06 12:13 PM, cindy nielsen at nielsencindy(a)hotmail.com wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 11 Dec. 2006
>> Monday
>> 
>> I am looking for my ancestors who live in Schoepfsdorf/Schoepsdorf, Germany.
>> I know they arrived in the US in 1858, but can find no further information
>> going back.  My maternal grandfather's name was Zeno Tranel (1905-1993).
>> What I do know about the family is that they were very "secretive"
>> as to why they left Germany.  Can anyone please help?  Thank You.
>> 
>> 
>> Cindy Nielsen
>> Volunteer Genealogist
>> East Dubuque District Library
>> 
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style,
>> age, and price. Try it!
>> 
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tc
o>> d
>> e=wlmtagline
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Tombstone Translation Help

Date: 2006/12/11 23:40:35
From: Larry Heim <lheimt(a)bellsouth.net>

Could someone please assist with the translation of the following tombstone inscription from Ferdinand IN. I have a photo and what I can make out appears to be as follows:
Kuhr janlt in Deiner Grutt
Bis Didj Jehis mirder rutt
Er mird um jungltin Tag Ditz
Grmriken janlt und ichgluh
Thanks in advance
Larry Heim

Re: [HN] 184th General Hospital at WWII

Date: 2006/12/11 23:41:10
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Joel and Don pretty much nailed it. The Queen Mary is a well known ship of the Cunard Steamship line presently housed as a floating museum in Long Beach, California, where it now serves as a historic hotel and convention facility. During WWII it was painted grey and used as a trans-Atlantic troop transport ship. The vessel sailed from 1936 through 1967, both as a wartime transport carrier and cruise ship. When I was younger, our family took it to the Hawaiian Islands when it was a commercial liner when we moved back there for many years. Ironically, it's only an hour or so drive time from where I now live here in SoCal, proving it's a small world indeed.

1945
November 4 to November 9
Embarkation/Debarkation: Southampton, England to New York, NY
Units on Board: 11,483 troops, 48 passengers & 837 crew
Convoy Number: None known
Source: S. Harding - Gray Ghost: The RMS Queen Mary at War

Notes:

The Queen Mary was built in Scotland and first set sail in May 1936. It was named for and launched by Her Majesty Queen Mary amidst great fanfare and celebration. During her more than 30 years at sea, the most celebrated liner of its time hosted A-list celebrities and society figures, sailed more than 1,000 transatlantic crossings and played a pivotal military role between 1940-1946, when she was commissioned to transport military troops during World War II. After carrying more than 765,000 service personnel throughout the conflict, Prime Minister Winston Churchill credited Queen Mary (as well as sister ship Queen Elizabeth) with ending the war one year earlier than estimated. Today, the Queen Mary is one of Southern California's most recognizable icons and continues to educate and entertain visitors from all around the world, offering tours, exceptional exhibitions, a calendar of festivals and numerous social and special events year-round.

Re the Queen Mary in WWII:

War Service: March 1940 - September 1946
War History: Carried a total of 765,429 military personnel. Sailed a total of 569,429 miles (916,407 km). Carried up to 15,000 troops at one time. Carried wounded returning to the United States. Transported Winston Churchill three times to conferences. Carried 12,886 G.I. brides and children.

The records of ships used to carry troops to their theaters of operations were destroyed intentionally in 1951. "According to our [U. S. National Archives] records, in 1951 the Department of the Army destroyed all passenger lists, manifests, logs of vessels, and troop movement files of United States Army Transports for World War II." (Sorry, but there was no word on why the records were destroyed.) Thus there is no longer an official record of who sailed on what ship, though there are still valuable sources that can be found. So this web page is an informal collecting ground for information about troop ship crossings.

Source (WWII): http://troopships.pier90.org/ships/q/queenmary/default.htm

Source (Museum): http://www.queenmary.com/

---

For more on the ANC, from Army Nursing Corps Chronology website:

http://history.amedd.army.mil/ANCWebsite/chrono.htm

Jb

From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>
To: Hannover-l(a)genealogy.net, oldenburg-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] 184th General Hospital at WWII
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:22:00 +0100 (MET)

I found a passenger list of the Qeen Mary, arrival New York 9.Nov.1945.

Unit Designation: 184th General Hospital, Stat. Code UBU

This list list included:
- Honkomp Margaret M. (32), Rank 1st Lt, ASR 55, ASN N-733977, Arm on Service ANC

Can anybody explain me the list?

Thank you,
Werner

_________________________________________________________________
Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now. http://ideas.live.com


Re: [HN] Hannover area names - Tranel

Date: 2006/12/11 23:51:42
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Cindy,
       Have you seen this page with 137 Tranels listed:

http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=haverhill_iowa&id
=I11114

  Zeno is there as well as all the others. His parents are listed.
 
      I found my German family to be secretive about a lot of things.  They
just didn't tell people everything. And that includes my own parents.

     The obvious reason for anyone coming to the USA was to find a better
life.  There was land that they could have, especially good for farmers.
Only the eldest son in Germany would inherit the farm and all the other
children had to find another way to make a living.  America was filled with
promise for them. 

     There are some items in the archives with the name Tranel.  Look here:

http://aidaonline.niedersachsen.de/

     You'd have to use just the name Tranel - adding Bernard or Zeno is no
help. 

    Google searches for Tranel may be helpful as well.

Barbara




on 12/11/06 3:15 PM, R&B Stewart at raybarbara(a)comcast.net wrote:

> Cindy,
> I neglected to give you the site for the Lingen and Emsburen search:
> 
> http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp
> 
> Do a search with just the name of Tranel and you will find the listings.
> On the far right, click and you will get the Ortsfamilienbuchs of Lingen and
> Emsburen and you will find Tranels there.
> 
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on 12/11/06 1:20 PM, R&B Stewart at raybarbara(a)comcast.net wrote:
> 
>> Dear Cindy,
>> You can see several Tranel names here:
>> 
>> http://www.emslanders.com/tra.htm
>> 
>> That whole website has emigrants who came from the Emsland (along
>> the Ems river) near the Dutch border.
>> 
>> Also, look here for Tranel and you will find them in the towns of
>> Lingen and Emsburen.
>> 
>> Good  luck,
>> Barbara
>> 
>> 
>> on 12/11/06 12:13 PM, cindy nielsen at nielsencindy(a)hotmail.com wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 11 Dec. 2006
>>> Monday
>>> 
>>> I am looking for my ancestors who live in Schoepfsdorf/Schoepsdorf, Germany.
>>> I know they arrived in the US in 1858, but can find no further information
>>> going back.  My maternal grandfather's name was Zeno Tranel (1905-1993).
>>> What I do know about the family is that they were very "secretive"
>>> as to why they left Germany.  Can anyone please help?  Thank You.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cindy Nielsen
>>> Volunteer Genealogist
>>> East Dubuque District Library
>>> 
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style,
>>> age, and price. Try it!
>>> 
> http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tc
> o>> d
>>> e=wlmtagline
>>> 
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Story of Gartenweg 6

Date: 2006/12/12 00:40:58
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Interesting story there. While you may make further headway with a little luck from the German side on the list, I would say it is imperative that you try to uncover what became of William Thigpen himself. The lack of specifics there creates an unfortunate void.

William is believed to have been murdered on the way to visit his
siblings in north Florida sometime between 1925 - 1930. Positive
identification was not made and a grave cannot be located.

Do you have any concrete evidence he was actually murdered, or was/is he simply a lost John Doe [MIA]. If not, perhaps he chose to conveniently disappear for reasons unknown to the family (just to muddy the waters a bit more). Due to the circumstances as presented (no specific date or location), there is a lot of ground to explore unfortunately. Your key to discovery may lie in the tracking down of present-day cousins who descend from William's various siblings (of course for all I know, you may be one of them). Someone in the extended family probably knows or has heard more. Always easier said than done, but still do-able if you're devoted enough.

You might want to pull the court records pertinent to the family dissolution, if they're accessible and if the siblings in question are not well known (not sure how far along here you've traveled). Make sure to explore the 1930 federal census records thoroughly too. Who knows who may be lurking within.

Best of luck. Jb


From: "Allen T." <athn(a)alltel.net>
To: Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Story of Gartenweg 6
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 22:00:45 -0500

Greetings Hannover Listers,

I want to thank those of you who have given me feedback on my questions
regarding the address of Gartenweg 6 in Hannover. I especially want
thank Susanne, Barbara, Holger,and  Jürgen.  I appreciate your
willingness to try and solve this riddle. I will continue to work on
this project as I gather new information. I would like to share with you
how I came about searching for an address in Germany.

William Dennett Thigpen was orphaned in 1911 at the age of 16, along
with nine brothers and sisters.

<snip>

Best regards,
Allen Thigpen

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Re: [HN] Story of Gartenweg 6 PS

Date: 2006/12/12 01:07:14
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

PS. Forgot to mention that in many states, Coroner records, like Death records, are indexed and held at the state level (over and beyond the county, and occasionally, city level). Not sure where your William called home (New Jersey, Florida, elsewhere?), but if you have your suspicions where this may have been, certainly inquire along those line for any applicable areas. State archives / state libraries can help pinpoint these kinds of record sources; so too can state / county historical and genealogical societies. Most all have convenient websites that indicate their in-house holdings.

Now if he was traveling interstate when his disappearance occurred, and this covers more than say two states, your work is truly cut out for you when it comes to narrowing down his demise specifics. Jb

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Re: [HN] Tombstone Translation Help

Date: 2006/12/12 03:05:22
From: LadyBonita (USA) <ladybonita(a)usa.com>

Larry:

I usually use the language translator at http://www.google.com ... just cut
and paste the German text into the field, make sure the translation is from
German to English, and Wa-La ... a translation.  Sometimes it is not
perfect, but you get the gest of what they are saying.

Bonita Hillmer

-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Larry Heim
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 12:43 PM
To: Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Tombstone Translation Help

Could someone please assist with the translation of the following tombstone
inscription from Ferdinand IN. I have a photo and what I can make out
appears to be as follows:
Kuhr janlt in Deiner Grutt
Bis Didj Jehis mirder rutt
Er mird um jungltin Tag Ditz
Grmriken janlt und ichgluh
Thanks in advance
Larry Heim
______________________________________________

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Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Tombstone Translation Help

Date: 2006/12/12 03:28:16
From: Ken Thompson <kth0mpsn(a)yahoo.com>

Larry,
If you have a digital copy, or can scan in your photo, i can probably
translate it for you.

Kenneth Thompson 
 Moline Acres (north StLouis County) MO
kth0mpsn(a)yahoo.com


 
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[HN] Efken

Date: 2006/12/12 06:54:34
From: Jon Efken <jee(a)wowway.com>

Dear All,

I am searching for information on my family surname Efken.

I know that some Efkens lived in the Hannover area.

There is a record of Harm Johansen Efken's marriage in Hannover in 1738.

Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give me.

Jon Efken

[HN] Loges im Weser und Leinebergland

Date: 2006/12/12 07:49:38
From: Uta Hierke-Sackmann <atu1(a)gmx.de>

Hallo @all!
Zuerst einmal möchte ich mich als neues Mitglied vorstellen, ich : Uta
hierke-Sackmann, lebe in Oberbayern und suche meine niedersächsischen
Vorfahren.
Mein Grossvater Heinrich Loges, geboren in Capellenhagen schätzungsweise um
1880 , gestorben in den letzten Kriegsjahren in Marienhagen , leider habe
ich keinen Zugang zu seinen Daten  bisher. So verlaufen alle Bemühungen
Ahnenforschung zu betreiben im Sand. Aida hat auch  nichts erbracht, die
Suche über andere Genealogieseiten auch nicht. 
Kann mir irgendjemand mehr sagen? Wo könnte ich noch suchen?
 
Mit freundlichen Grüssen: Uta Hierke-Sackmann.

Re: [HN] Help

Date: 2006/12/12 08:26:36
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Max,

Here is I think good site on this subject.

Includes proper way to address envelope and how to begin and end letter.

http://www.askoxford.com/languages/de/german_letters/

Barbie- Lew

P.S. Sample letters can also be downloaded - perhaps viewing of samples may help you in composing your personal letter.


I know that this is not in the true purpose of this list but I am sure some of my cyber space friends will respond. I need the correct German spelling and form for 'Mr. and Mrs. John Doe and Family". I wish to send Christmas Greetings to some dear friends I have met personally and on line.
Thank you,   Max
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Re: [HN] Tombstone Translation Help

Date: 2006/12/12 08:35:15
From: Esther van Rems-Dijkstra <esthervanrems(a)gmail.com>

That probably won't work with the tekst that he has, that's not correct
German. If you place the photo somewhere on the web (homepage?) or send it
to me, I'll translate it for you?

Esther

2006/12/12, LadyBonita (USA) <ladybonita(a)usa.com>:

Larry:

I usually use the language translator at http://www.google.com ... just
cut
and paste the German text into the field, make sure the translation is
from
German to English, and Wa-La ... a translation.  Sometimes it is not
perfect, but you get the gest of what they are saying.

Bonita Hillmer

-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Larry Heim
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 12:43 PM
To: Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Tombstone Translation Help

Could someone please assist with the translation of the following
tombstone
inscription from Ferdinand IN. I have a photo and what I can make out
appears to be as follows:
Kuhr janlt in Deiner Grutt
Bis Didj Jehis mirder rutt
Er mird um jungltin Tag Ditz
Grmriken janlt und ichgluh
Thanks in advance
Larry Heim
______________________________________________

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Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

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Re: [HN] Loges im Weser und Leinebergland

Date: 2006/12/12 08:53:31
From: Reinhard J. Freytag <Reinhard.Freytag(a)t-online.de>

----Original Message-----
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:49:29 +0100
> Subject: [HN] Loges im Weser und Leinebergland
> From: "Uta Hierke-Sackmann" 


 Wo könnte ich noch suchen?
> Mit freundlichen Grüssen: Uta Hierke-Sackmann.

..im Kirchenbuch von Capellenhagen. Hinfahren und
reinschauen.




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In der Genealogie ist ein Schritt rückwärts
ein Schritt vorwärts

Schöne Grüsse aus unserer
Universitätsstadt Göttingen
Reinhard J. Freytag
genealogie(a)freytag-immo.de





Re: [HN] Loges im Weser und Leinebergland

Date: 2006/12/12 09:08:19
From: Karsten Fahrenkohl <ar0908874286(a)arcor.de>

Hallo Uta!
Du solltest mal die Kirchenbücher von Wallensen durchsehen, eventuell beim Kirchenbuchamt in Hannover. Die Kirchenbücher von Capellenhagen sind in Wallensen. Ich habe dort selbst nach meinem Ururgroßvater gesucht. Ab 1876 sind Daten hauptsächlich bei den Standesämtern zu finden.
Gruß
Karsten
----- Original Message ----- From: "Uta Hierke-Sackmann" <atu1(a)gmx.de>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: [HN] Loges im Weser und Leinebergland


Hallo @all!
Zuerst einmal möchte ich mich als neues Mitglied vorstellen, ich : Uta
hierke-Sackmann, lebe in Oberbayern und suche meine niedersächsischen
Vorfahren.
Mein Grossvater Heinrich Loges, geboren in Capellenhagen schätzungsweise um
1880 , gestorben in den letzten Kriegsjahren in Marienhagen , leider habe
ich keinen Zugang zu seinen Daten  bisher. So verlaufen alle Bemühungen
Ahnenforschung zu betreiben im Sand. Aida hat auch  nichts erbracht, die
Suche über andere Genealogieseiten auch nicht.
Kann mir irgendjemand mehr sagen? Wo könnte ich noch suchen?

Mit freundlichen Grüssen: Uta Hierke-Sackmann.
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Re: [HN] 184th General Hospital at WWII

Date: 2006/12/12 12:41:07
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

Hello Joel,
it helped we to understand. Thank you,
Werner

> Werner,

> I'm not positive, but  I think

> ASR = Army Service Record (?)
> ASN = Army Serial Number
> "Arm on Service" should read "Arm of Service" ANC = Army Nursing Corps

> Regards,

> Joel



Re: [HN] 184th General Hospital at WWII

Date: 2006/12/12 12:41:09
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

Thank you Don,
Werner

> Werner,
>     The Queen Mary was probably being used as a troop transport returning
>     the
> military hospital personnel (and perhaps patients)from Europe after the
> end of
> WWII.
> Don Roddy



Re: [HN] Tombstone Translation Help

Date: 2006/12/12 12:41:10
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

It should be:

Ruhe sanft in Deiner Gruft
bis Dich Jesus wieder ruft
Er wird am jüngsten Tag sein
(Geruhe sanft und selig ????)

Translated with PC-translator:

Be gently quiet in your tomb
till Jesus calls you again.
He will be on the latest day.
(Deign gently and blissfully ???)

Werner

> Could someone please assist with the translation of the following
> tombstone inscription from Ferdinand IN. I have a photo and what I can
> make out appears to be as follows:
> Kuhr janlt in Deiner Grutt
> Bis Didj Jehis mirder rutt
> Er mird um jungltin Tag Ditz
> Grmriken janlt und ichgluh
> Thanks in advance
> Larry Heim
> ______________________________________________

> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



Re: [HN] 184th General Hospital at WWII

Date: 2006/12/12 12:41:18
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

Hello John,
thank you for the background of the Queen Mary during the WWII.
Werner

> Joel and Don pretty much nailed it. The Queen Mary is a well known ship of
> the Cunard Steamship line presently housed as a floating museum in Long
> Beach, California, where it now serves as a historic hotel and convention
> facility. During WWII it was painted grey and used as a trans-Atlantic
> troop
> transport ship. The vessel sailed from 1936 through 1967, both as a
> wartime
> transport carrier and cruise ship. When I was younger, our family took it
> to
> the Hawaiian Islands when it was a commercial liner when we moved back
> there
> for many years. Ironically, it's only an hour or so drive time from where
> I
> now live here in SoCal, proving it's a small world indeed.

> 1945
> November 4 to November 9
> Embarkation/Debarkation: Southampton, England to New York, NY
> Units on Board: 11,483 troops, 48 passengers & 837 crew
> Convoy Number: None known
> Source: S. Harding - Gray Ghost: The RMS Queen Mary at War



Re: [HN] Harmening/Leese

Date: 2006/12/12 13:32:39
From: bobbidoll <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>

 
Hi Susanne,Thank you very much.Bobbi --- On Thu 12/07, Susanne Schmitz &lt; su-schmitz(a)gmx.net &gt; wrote:From: Susanne Schmitz [mailto: su-schmitz(a)gmx.net]To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.netDate: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 23:47:37 +0100Subject: Re: [HN] Harmening/LeeseHallo Bobbi,unfortunately I am only working with the churchbook 1654 - 1753; I have no  photos from the 19th century (and Leese is not in my neighbourhood). But  you can write a letter to:Pfarrbüro LeeseKirchplatz 531633 LeeseMfG    Susanne&gt; Hi Susanne,I have family that came from Leese.  My  &gt; Great-great-grandmother (Sophie Buck) was born in Leese in 1845.  Would  &gt; you have access to those records?Thanks for your time.Bobbi---______________________________________________Hannover-L mailing listHannover-L(a)genealogy.nethttp://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

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Re: [HN] Tombstone Translation Help

Date: 2006/12/12 13:34:13
From: Jurgen Schwiening <schwiening(a)tesco.net>

PC Translators are dodgy. I would translate the inscription as:
Rest gently in your grave
till Jesus calls you again.
That will be judgement day.
(Rest gently and blissfully)
J. Schwiening

-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Werner Honkomp
Sent: 12 December 2006 11:20
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: [HN] Tombstone Translation Help

It should be:

Ruhe sanft in Deiner Gruft
bis Dich Jesus wieder ruft
Er wird am jüngsten Tag sein
(Geruhe sanft und selig ????)

Translated with PC-translator:

Be gently quiet in your tomb
till Jesus calls you again.
He will be on the latest day.
(Deign gently and blissfully ???)

Werner

> Could someone please assist with the translation of the following
> tombstone inscription from Ferdinand IN. I have a photo and what I can
> make out appears to be as follows:
> Kuhr janlt in Deiner Grutt
> Bis Didj Jehis mirder rutt
> Er mird um jungltin Tag Ditz
> Grmriken janlt und ichgluh
> Thanks in advance
> Larry Heim
> ______________________________________________

> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


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Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover

Date: 2006/12/12 14:11:47
From: bobbidoll <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>

 
An archive in Hesse wants 8 Euros per quarter hour.Bobbi --- On Mon 12/11, Esther van Rems-Dijkstra &lt; esthervanrems(a)gmail.com &gt; wrote:From: Esther van Rems-Dijkstra [mailto: esthervanrems(a)gmail.com]To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.netDate: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:27:51 +0100Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt HannoverIsn't there a way, to just write to the archieve, 35 euro is reallyexpensive and in the Netherland the archives charge about 20 euro per hour.Esther2006/12/10, Will J van Dreven-Lieuwes :&gt;&gt; Hi B.Lew&gt; You are absolutely right.&gt; Dollars is even more expensive.. while the Euro is higher then the $$&gt;&gt; I dot quite a bit Pro Deo, for the SA community.. the country is big..and&gt; ppl are not&gt; capable to go to the big cities.. Johannesburg Cape town is 2 hours&gt; flight!!&gt; and even you can do that in one day.. you might not find everything in the&gt; archives IN that one day..&gt; So I have quite a list of names to find in Cape town, from all over&gt; 
SA.(and&gt; beyond)&gt; MOst of the emigrating data is in Cape town..&gt; The drive is about 120 miles, but i do it gladly.&gt; I have no family in SA.. so i dont need to search for myself..&gt;&gt; Someone has offered me help,and am very grateful for that and there i have&gt; to go to Holland, because my Mom (97) is not quite well, i might be able&gt; to&gt; travel to Hannover..and search for myself.&gt; also expensive.. but this is the only way.. and probably less expensive..&gt; then paying 35 Euro per HOUR!!&gt; Best regards&gt; Will&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----&gt; From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net&gt; [mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]On Behalf Of Cactus Flower&gt; Sent: 10 December 2006 05:02&gt; To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net&gt; Subject: Re: [HN] Kirchenbuchamt Hannover&gt;&gt;&gt; Lieb Listies,&gt;&gt; Our beloved hobby can be expensive.&gt;&gt; Catagorized as luxary &amp; entertainment expense item in my budget..:)&gt; Winning the lottery would 
definately help fund my genealogy wish-list!!!&gt; There is always next month, next year..:) The wish list will keep...and&gt; will&gt; probobly get longer.&gt;&gt; Thirty-five an hour is expense.. but also I think depends on what you&gt; recieve for that thirty-five dollars.  A local historian familiar with an&gt; archive perhaps can provide you with unexpected results. I don't know.  I&gt; think always a good idea to search out everything clue and bit of&gt; information you can find in your own local archives so that you are&gt; absolutely certain that the thirty-five dollars per hour you spend is&gt; being&gt; spent wisely.&gt;&gt; Barbie-Lew&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In einer eMail vom 09.12.2006 12:29:35 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt&gt; hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:&gt;&gt; kirchebuch amt Hannover&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Willemine&gt;&gt; Usually those people say (in the archives) we have not enough time to make&gt; researches or they say we cant 
do researches so they give you the name of&gt; a&gt; local known genealogist or historian or sometimes people are working&gt; &quot;free&quot;&gt; for&gt; the church or the archives. And they want of course money for one hour and&gt; the  price of 35 seems to be ok.&gt;&gt; Almost you have the chance to make researches yourself in the archive, but&gt; you know very well even when you live in Germany Hannover is a least 4&gt; hours&gt; by&gt;   car so you nead a hotelroom and and and....&gt;&gt; My researcher in Hannover  wants exacly the same price plus the money for&gt; the&gt; copies and depending from the  place were she has to research, a little&gt; fee&gt; for the voyage to this town.&gt;&gt; Sometimes you have some luck and you get informations for free.... but&gt; this&gt; is really rare to find an officer who is doing researches himself ....&gt; anyway&gt; i  found some very nice and gentle persons in the Archive in Bremen and in&gt; Soest.  But usually you have to 
pay ..&gt;&gt; Armin&gt; ______________________________________________&gt;&gt; Hannover-L mailing list&gt; Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net&gt; http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l&gt;&gt; _________________________________________________________________&gt; Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version.Join now.&gt; http://ideas.live.com&gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________________________&gt;&gt; Hannover-L mailing list&gt; Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net&gt; http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l&gt;-- Get Firefox!______________________________________________Hannover-L mailing listHannover-L(a)genealogy.nethttp://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

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Re: [HN] Kirchenbüchern

Date: 2006/12/12 15:00:14
From: bobbidoll <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>

 
Hi,For those of you that might not have heard, the FHL in Salt Lake City is planning to digitalize all of their records.  How long this will take depends on how many volunteers they get.  Estimates are between 5 &amp; 10 years.Bobbi

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Re: [HN] U.S. Census Online - Heritage Quest

Date: 2006/12/12 15:06:37
From: bobbidoll <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>

 
Hi Barney,You can use Skype to talk over the internet.  Now finding someone to speak with is another matter.Bobbi --- On Fri 12/08,  &lt; bmspeckman(a)aol.com &gt; wrote:I am also wondering if there is a way to talk between US and Germany over the internet for those Americans who want to learn German and those Germans who would like to learn English.

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[HN] Thanks

Date: 2006/12/12 16:37:46
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

For all who replied to my help request, thank you. The cards are in the mail.

Max

Re: [HN] Tombstone Translation Help

Date: 2006/12/12 19:46:48
From: Albert Emmerich <Emmerich.Albert(a)t-online.de>

Send the photo to my email address - I'll see what I can do.
Albert (Emmerich)
Cremlingen / Germany

 "Larry Heim" <mailto:lheimt(a)bellsouth.net> schrieb:
> Could someone please assist with the translation of the following tombstone inscription from Ferdinand IN. I have a photo and what I can make out appears to be as follows:
> Kuhr janlt in Deiner Grutt
> Bis Didj Jehis mirder rutt
> Er mird um jungltin Tag Ditz
> Grmriken janlt und ichgluh
> Thanks in advance
> Larry Heim
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> mailto:Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 


Re: [HN] Efken

Date: 2006/12/12 19:53:22
From: Gustavo Possel <gpossel(a)pelambres.cl>

Dear friends,
I am searching for people from my family ( Pössel Tenheaff ) that may have survived WWII in the Hannover area.
We are currently living in Chile and my family derives from my grandfather
Gustav Oliver Pössel Tenheaff who came to stay in Chile at the beginning of WWI. Any guidance will be welcome.

Gustavo Pössel

-----Mensaje original-----
De: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] En nombre de Jon Efken
Enviado el: martes, 12 de diciembre de 2006 2:54
Para: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Asunto: [HN] Efken

Dear All,

I am searching for information on my family surname Efken.

I know that some Efkens lived in the Hannover area.

There is a record of Harm Johansen Efken's marriage in Hannover in 1738.

Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give me.

Jon Efken
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Re: [HN] 184th General Hospital at WWII

Date: 2006/12/12 20:52:04
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Good to hear Werner. I should add that strains of senility are most certainly setting in now. I mentioned earlier being aboard the QM on a voyage to Hawaii when I was younger. When I thought a little more on it (and naturally after I posted), I realized it was my mother who had sailed on the QM on a trip to Europe (France, Germany and Switzerland) immediately after the war. The vessel I sailed on when young was the SS Lurline, part of the Matson Line, a ship that is familiar to anyone who has sailed into Hawaiian ports from the west coast of the U.S.

Back to the losing my mind part. Have you ever caught the lyrics to the song "Comfortably Numb" by the British rock outfit Pink Floyd? Those abstract verses come into my mind every now and then. With its eerie, morose backdrop, musically melancholy in feel, I often see myself drifting back. Then the damn alarm rings, the jackhammers sound once again, and I have to jump in the car to join millions of other SoCal commuters fighting their way through vehicular mayhem just to keep the taxman happy. Call it another day. <g> Jb

Comfortably Numb 
(Gilmour, Waters)

Hello?
Is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me
Is there anyone at home?
Come on now
I hear you're feeling down
Well I can ease your pain
Get you on your feet again
Relax
I'll need some information first
Just the basic facts
Can you show me where it hurts?

There is no pain, you are receding
A distant ship's smoke on the horizon
You are only coming through in waves
Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying
When I was a child I had a fever
My hands felt just like two balloons
Now I've got that feeling once again
I can't explain, you would not understand
This is not how I am
I have become comfortably numb

Ok
Just a little pin-prick
There'll be no more .. aaaaaah!
But you may feel a little sick
Can you stand up?
I do believe it's working, good
That'll keep you going for the show
Come on it's time to go

There is no pain, you are receding
A distant ship's smoke on the horizon
You are only coming through in waves
Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying
When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown, the dream is gone
I have become comfortably numb


From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: [HN] 184th General Hospital at WWII
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:20:21 +0100 (MET)

Hello John,
thank you for the background of the Queen Mary during the WWII.
Werner

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[HN] Tombstone Translation Help

Date: 2006/12/12 21:11:51
From: Falk Liebezeit <FalkLiebe(a)t-online.de>

Diepholz, 12th of December 2006

Dear Larry, perhaps you would send a scan along just to me

Ruhe sanft in Deiner Gruft 

Bis Dich Jesus wieder ruft

Er wird am juengsten Tag Das

Gericht halten und .... 

Rest gently in your grave

Until jesus will call you

On the last day (judgement day)

he will hold the court  and ... 

Greetings from Diepholz

Falk Liebezeit

 

 

<<Message: 5

<<Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:42:38 -0500

<<From: "Larry Heim" <lheimt(a)bellsouth.net>

<<Subject: [HN] Tombstone Translation Help

<<To: <Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net>

<<Message-ID: <000c01c71d5c$840ade50$6402a8c0(a)Larry>

<<Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

<<Could someone please assist with the translation of the following
tombstone inscription from Ferdinand IN. I have a photo 

<<and what I can make out appears to be as follows:

<<Kuhr janlt in Deiner Grutt

<<Bis Didj Jehis mirder rutt

<<Er mird um jungltin Tag Ditz

<<Grmriken janlt und ichgluh

<<Thanks in advance

<<Larry Heim


Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses

Date: 2006/12/12 21:45:02
From: Susanne Schmitz <su-schmitz(a)gmx.net>

Hallo Kenneth,

I'm wondering if someone might be able to answer a few
basic questions about German censuses. Specifically,
I'd like to know when census data was first collected,

for the kingdom of Hannover in 1850-ties

whether there are census records for the Kingdom of
Hanover during the 19th century,

There are no records, but the lists are in the archiv in Hannover

 and how I might
access records for the Harz Mountains region (Herzberg
am Harz, Osterode am Harz, etc). I'm trying to
determine if there was a Hempel family in the region
during that period.

You can write to the archiv, but without knowing the village/town where they should search it will cost a lot of time and money. The adress is:

Landesarchiv Hannover
Am Archiv 1
30169 Hannover

Hannover(a)nla.niedersachsen.de

Re: [HN] Efken

Date: 2006/12/12 21:48:06
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello,

     I have seen the LDS record of that Efken marriage.  The Gerdes family
can be followed very far back, as you know.  Efken is another issue.  I find
Efken in later years in Berßen. That is from a family lineage book
(Ortsippenbuch or Ortsfamilienbuch).  Not much help to you. There is also
such a book for Horsten where the marriage took place.  It was completed by
Erhard Schulte, but from what I can see online, it is no longer in print.
  
    I would suggest that you do a great many Google searches for the Efken
name with or without the name of Horsten.   There are 70 hits in the German
Telephone Book for Efken.  Maybe that would help you find someone who may be
albe to help.  http://www.telefonbuch.de/

Good luck!
Barbara





on 12/11/06 10:54 PM, Jon Efken at jee(a)wowway.com wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
> I am searching for information on my family surname Efken.
> 
> I know that some Efkens lived in the Hannover area.
> 
> There is a record of Harm Johansen Efken's marriage in Hannover in 1738.
> 
> Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give me.
> 
> Jon Efken
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Loges im Weser und Leinebergland

Date: 2006/12/12 21:49:22
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"Uta Hierke-Sackmann" <atu1(a)gmx.de> schrieb:
> Hallo @all!
> Zuerst einmal möchte ich mich als neues Mitglied vorstellen, ich : Uta
> hierke-Sackmann, lebe in Oberbayern und suche meine niedersächsischen
> Vorfahren.
> Mein Grossvater Heinrich Loges, geboren in Capellenhagen schätzungsweise um
> 1880 , gestorben in den letzten Kriegsjahren in Marienhagen , leider habe
> ich keinen Zugang zu seinen Daten  bisher. So verlaufen alle Bemühungen
> Ahnenforschung zu betreiben im Sand. Aida hat auch  nichts erbracht, die
> Suche über andere Genealogieseiten auch nicht. 
> Kann mir irgendjemand mehr sagen? Wo könnte ich noch suchen?
>  
> Mit freundlichen Grüssen: Uta Hierke-Sackmann.

Hallo Uta Hierke-Sackmann,

Cappellenhagen gehört nach meiner Telefon CD zu 31089 DUINGEN. Dort finde ich eine ganze Reihe von Namensträgern LOGES, die vielleicht ja gar direkt verwandt auch sind mit dem gesuchten Heinrich LOGES:

- LOGES, A. ... 31089 Duingen, Tel. 05185 8541
- LOGES, Ewald Landw., Hauptsr. 10, 31089 Duingen, Tel. 05186 884
- LOGES, Gisela, Försterkamp 21, 31089 Duingen, Tel. 05185 467
- LOGES, Heinrich, Fölziehausen Hs Nr.26, 31089 DUINGEN, Tel. 05186 336
- LOGES, Heinz-Wilhelm, Danzigerstr. 4A, 31089 Duingen, Tel. 05185 6143
- LOGES, Rainer, FHandw., Hauptstr.32, 31089 Duingen, Tel. 05186 581
- LOGES, Willy Bauing., Wilhelm-Niemeier-Str.4, 31089 Duingen, Tel. 05185 306

da 1880 geboren heißt wohl bis weit ins 20.Jahrhundert gelebt, ist gut möglich, dass die noch Lebenden Auskunft geben können. Die Angaben stammen im übrigen von 1998, so dass damit nun auch schon bald einzehntel der wegstrecke in die Vergangenheit überbrückt ist.

mit bestem Wünschen für den Erfolg

hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel


[HN] ]PÖSSEL- TENHAEFF

Date: 2006/12/12 21:49:22
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"Gustavo Possel" <gpossel(a)pelambres.cl> schrieb:
> Dear friends,
> I am searching for people from my family ( Pössel Tenheaff ) that may have survived WWII in the Hannover area.
> We are currently living in Chile and my family derives from my grandfather
> Gustav Oliver Pössel Tenheaff who came to stay in Chile at the beginning of WWI. Any guidance will be welcome.
> 
> Gustavo Pössel

Helo Gustvo PÖSSEL,

there are about 320 different entries POSSEL/PÖSSEL/PÖßEL and about 42 different TENHAEFF in the telephone directory you will also find under www.telefonbuch.de, but no double-named PÖSSEL-TENHAEFF.

in the directory of Hannover for the year 1998 there are four entries PÖSSEL:
- PÖSSEL, Elisa, Hoppenstedtstr. 2, 30173 Hannover, Tel. 0511 888946
- PÖSSEL, Friedhrlm, Gretelriede 70, 30419 Hannover, Tel. 0511 796536
- PÖSSEL, Hildegard, Bussiliaweg 28, 30419 Hannover, Tel. 0511 796570
- PÖßEL, Renate. Rembrandtstr. 8, 30916 Isernhagen, Tel. 0511 9734660
there two names aproximatively similar to TENHAEFF
- TENHAVEN, Marianne, Bonifatiusplatz 2, 30161 Hannover, Tel. 0511-662877
- TENHAVEN, Mechthild, Läuferweg 25, 30655 Hannover, Tel. 0511 5463724

Best wishes

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

Re: [HN] Loges im Weser und Leinebergland

Date: 2006/12/12 21:55:07
From: Klaus Riecken <klaus(a)riecken-online.de>

Hallo Uta,

versuch einmal
http://www.familysearch.org/
Allerdigs sind diese daten mit Vorsicht zu genießen

Gruß
Klaus
www.Riecken-online.de

----- Original Message ----- From: <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] Loges im Weser und Leinebergland


"Uta Hierke-Sackmann" <atu1(a)gmx.de> schrieb:
Hallo @all!
Zuerst einmal möchte ich mich als neues Mitglied vorstellen, ich : Uta
hierke-Sackmann, lebe in Oberbayern und suche meine niedersächsischen
Vorfahren.
Mein Grossvater Heinrich Loges, geboren in Capellenhagen schätzungsweise um
1880 , gestorben in den letzten Kriegsjahren in Marienhagen , leider habe
ich keinen Zugang zu seinen Daten  bisher. So verlaufen alle Bemühungen
Ahnenforschung zu betreiben im Sand. Aida hat auch  nichts erbracht, die
Suche über andere Genealogieseiten auch nicht.
Kann mir irgendjemand mehr sagen? Wo könnte ich noch suchen?

Mit freundlichen Grüssen: Uta Hierke-Sackmann.

Hallo Uta Hierke-Sackmann,

Cappellenhagen gehört nach meiner Telefon CD zu 31089 DUINGEN. Dort finde ich eine ganze Reihe von Namensträgern LOGES, die vielleicht ja gar direkt verwandt auch sind mit dem gesuchten Heinrich LOGES:

- LOGES, A. ... 31089 Duingen, Tel. 05185 8541
- LOGES, Ewald Landw., Hauptsr. 10, 31089 Duingen, Tel. 05186 884
- LOGES, Gisela, Försterkamp 21, 31089 Duingen, Tel. 05185 467
- LOGES, Heinrich, Fölziehausen Hs Nr.26, 31089 DUINGEN, Tel. 05186 336
- LOGES, Heinz-Wilhelm, Danzigerstr. 4A, 31089 Duingen, Tel. 05185 6143
- LOGES, Rainer, FHandw., Hauptstr.32, 31089 Duingen, Tel. 05186 581
- LOGES, Willy Bauing., Wilhelm-Niemeier-Str.4, 31089 Duingen, Tel. 05185 306

da 1880 geboren heißt wohl bis weit ins 20.Jahrhundert gelebt, ist gut möglich, dass die noch Lebenden Auskunft geben können. Die Angaben stammen im übrigen von 1998, so dass damit nun auch schon bald einzehntel der wegstrecke in die Vergangenheit überbrückt ist.

mit bestem Wünschen für den Erfolg

hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Secretive

Date: 2006/12/12 22:46:59
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Cindy Nielsen <nielsencindy(a)hotmail.com> on 12/11 wrote:

What I do know about the family is that they were very "secretive" as to why they left Germany.

Barbara Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net> on 12/11 wrote:

I found my German family to be secretive about a lot of things. They
just didn't tell people everything. And that includes my own parents.

The obvious reason for anyone coming to the USA was to find a better
life. There was land that they could have, especially good for farmers.
Only the eldest son in Germany would inherit the farm and all the other
children had to find another way to make a living. America was filled with
promise for them.

Interesting assessments. "Secretive" perhaps, but "silent" might be more accurate. This "don't ask, don't tell" characteristic was not unique to German immigrants exclusively; much the same could be said for many other groups who pulled up stakes from their native soil to take up new starts in foreign lands. It may seem more pronounced amongst our German ancestors since many of the Deutsch are rather business-like, and less openly glib, by comparison to say most Brits or Yanks [cites self as proof]. To this day Germans tend to be hard working, "no-nonsense" types, and this is found across most of the German landscape. If you travel through Europe you can't help but notice how the Deutsch tend to be a tad more formal and reserved than many of their neighbors (look to Italy or France for instant contrasts), though exceptions will always apply when painting in broad strokes.

Still, this could probably be called a traditional Germanic trait, from a land that has mastered education and science, the arts and warfare, as well as any. The Bavarians to the south probably present the best counter-image, with more jovial dispositions on the whole (probably due to the warmer climate found there lol). Then again, perhaps I'm erring by oversimplifying things.

It should be remembered that while places like America and Canada have certainly presented attractive destinations for emigrants to "better their lives," just as many Germans left their native soil reluctantly as those who came in open embraces. I need look no further than at my own ancestors for evidence of this. The matriarch of our clan longed, till the day she died, to be back in her native community of Hildesheim. She never fully adjusted to the cultural upheaval the settling into America presented, and never forgave her husband for their departure (and here, she ran a German Institute for classical studies in early California, and certainly could not be called a child of deprivation in her newly adopted country). Sadly the family patriarch had little choice in the matter. For other families and individuals, just the opposite would have been the case. America must have seemed like a big breath of fresh air!

It's a given that a degree of desperation was one of the driving forces that allowed many to depart the Fatherland without looking back. Germany was - and has been for much of the modern era - a highly overcrowded area. The population has burgeoned in recent centuries (much like Japan in the East), and as a whole those nations possess only limited natural resources and land expanses to sustain their growing populations. It is not a reach to see the alleviation of these conditions as being one of the chief motivations amongst some of their leaders, to include the use of military power if necessary. Understandably it has been a concern of their neighbors that they have proven capable of using aggrandizement and the use arms quite proficiently at times - but then again, this is the tumultuous story of Europe and the West, dating back in like fashion to the Greeks, Romans and Celts, and the eventual arrival of the Germanic peoples as nation and empire builders in their own right. Unlike their cousins on the British Isles, no convenient seaports (or traditional naval masteries for that matter) present themselves to allow for colonial based solutions to such things, as was the rage in eras gone by.

We in the States have had it a lot easier in this regard. The Indian population simply stood no chance against the repeated drives and encroachments of our Anglo forbears who were looking to forge new homesteads in the virgin lands they found before them. When difficulties arose beyond what the homesteaders could take care of on their own, the US Army would invariably appear on the scene to smooth things over, often in unforgiving fashion. In taking the soil of North America for our own, we created an amazingly prosperous empire, one that barrels forth - not imperfectly - to this day. Only in our case, we had an abundant and undeveloped land mass to play with (unheard of in Europe), most of it rich in natural resources. We were thus in position to entice - even solicit - others to come over and get in on the spoils while they lasted. Obviously many did, with the Germans - noted for their work ethic and above-average educations and specialty skills - being welcomed as openly as any group.

Now that prefaced, I'd be careful in characterizing our forbears as being overly "secretive," unless it is in the "seeming" sense. There certainly has been a degree of anti-German sentiment during the periods of the two world wars which contributed to the downplaying of one's German ancestry at times. And I'm sure there were also some immigrants who carried distinctly anti-Prussian biases from earlier periods, likely peaking when Bismarck was hammering together a new and united Germany, and using the threat of arms to compliment his über-diplomacy skills. But probably most of what appears to be secretive can be attributed to the inevitable (and often difficult) turning of one's back to the past, which demands the letting go of old customs and familiar cultural icons - including one's given language - in the name of "getting on with things" in a new and foreign place. That can't be easy, especially when there is no turning back. The farmers who migrated to the rural expanses, being more isolated in "localized" communities, probably felt this impact less than those thrust into big city environs.

While we generally like to paint or imagine a rosy picture of this transformation, it wasn't always a thing of beauty. Jobs, often menial, had to be sought without delay -- there were few safety nets like we have in place today. This required the acquisition of a new language, if even rudimentarily, and not all who came possessed high skill or craft levels (though surprisingly many did). Many got by on only the most meager of circumstances, in quiet desperation (to borrow from Thoreau), like so many other emigrants. Suicide rates have always been high amongst transient classes and the displaced, German immigrants notwithstanding. The miracle is that so many made it, and made it well. The stories of those who assimilated successfully - and prosperously - could fill volumes to no end. In this new and developing nation, the opportunities were indeed sky high.

Today the Germans make up the largest identifiable group within the American populace, but the transition from German to American was not seamless or without hitches. Those early emigrant ancestors of ours worked HARD to make it in this country, as they did everywhere else they settled. As I see it, that somewhat silent nature we often glimpsed (or heard of) from those who came before us had more to do with the embrace of this barrage of changes than it did with carrying secrets, or sullenness, from the past. Couple this with what I mentioned earlier, the traditionally sturdy, reserved, even rigid Germanic bearing. Let's not lose sight of the fact that few of our ancestors had the time or luxury to pursue things like the family histories we now enjoy stitching together, or felt the need to look back over their shoulders, as most were too busy trying to make it day to day in the new world.

A bit long but .. Jb

_________________________________________________________________
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[HN] Tombstone Translation

Date: 2006/12/12 23:57:16
From: Larry Heim <lheimt(a)bellsouth.net>

Listers
Wow! What a response. thank you all very much.
Larry Heim
Louisville KY

Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses

Date: 2006/12/13 01:02:08
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

To Ken and others: There are a good number 19th century German censuses available, but they tend to be rather "hit-and-miss" as a whole. Some are quite detailed, others provide only scant info at best. And as Suzanne wrote earlier, without knowing the village or town where they were located, searching blindly will cost you a lot of time and money :: and frustration. There are no master indexes to be had at present, you must pinpoint - or narrow down considerably - the town or village or city in question. And every area in Germany is different in regards to the depth of their holdings.

Your best bet is to find out what is available per the LDS [Mormon Church] indexes online. Or stop in at your local LDS FHC [Family History Center] to search their microfiche holdings for the region in question. There you can order in the specific microfilms you choose to review later at length. None of this is terribly expensive, in fact it is a great bargain versus any other means available currently. You can also make print-outs of anything you find on the microfilms or microfiches.

Since census information is a much sought after subject on these lists, I'll include from the Niedersachsen [Rootsweb] archives a series of posts - excerpted a bit for clarity - from a few years back that were partially cross-linked to Hannover-L. They cover a lot of ground and should provide a helpful overview for anyone still in the dark on this subject.

Jb

-------------------------------------

From : SaintWare(a)aol.com 
To : NIEDERSACHSEN-L(a)rootsweb.com 
Subject : [<nieder>] Census in Germany 
Date : Fri, 29 Aug 2003 02:26:45 EDT

Look at it this way: It is modern democracy that needs a census. A regular, informative census (which incidentally provides valuable genealogical data) such as we have in the States was never kept in any of the multitude of states that over the last millenium existed in the area we now think of as Germany.

Occasionally some prince or duke had the people in his region counted for tax purposes. These were called something like "Seelenregister" (A Register of Souls, literally). I once found helpful information in one because I already knew the family I was looking for, and I knew that they had run a farm. The"Seelenregister" told me that several of the younger members of the family were in Holland that summer (Hollandgänger), and that the grandparents were living in the dower house, which were interesting details. The State archives can tell you if they have any such registers, which are not indexed, btw.

However, there simply is no large wide-reaching body of information like the US Censuses for finding out where your ancestors lived. Period. Family Search.com idexes many of the German church records, at least the ones which were microfilmed over the last 50 years by the Church of the Latter Day Saints (Mormons). These parish records are the only real chance of finding out information about your ancestors - once you know the village or town they came from.

If you have a rare name, using the modern day German telephone book may show you the locality where the name originated. Then you must search in perhaps 20 individual parishes. If you have a common name, your job becomes more like looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack. The best hope for locating your ancestor's home village is family stories, for the name is often passed down - if not in your family, then perhaps in your cousin's. Barring that, a close examination of the first baptism records in the States sometimes produces a village name, usually misspelled, but at least a clue to where to search.

I'm sorry to be a wet blanket. :-)

Carol Saint-Clair 

PS German democracy today is served by the local registry offices, as everyone is required to register their address there by law, and inform them when one moves. Some years ago an attempt to have a real Census (Volkszaehlung) (again, just for statistical purposes) failed because of a grass-roots movement against it. :-)

-------------------------------------

From : "Fred Rump" <FredRump(a)earthlink.net> 
To : NIEDERSACHSEN-L(a)rootsweb.com, hannover-l(a)genealogy.net 
Subject : Re: [HN] Re: [<nieder>] Census in Germany 
Date : Fri, 29 Aug 2003 06:54:13 -0400 

On 29 Aug 2003 at 10:04, hrs(a)hist.de wrote:

-> CENSUS RECORDS 
> A regular, informative census (which incidentally provides valuable
> genealogical data) such as we have in the States was never kept in 
> any of the multitude of states that over the last millenium existed 
> area we now think of as Germany. 
> THIS IS NOT TRUE! 

For the record I must disagree with Jens Kaufmann on this. The above quote is essentially correct. There is no such thing - in any Germany state - where a detailed census was taken over a long period of time such as we have in the United States. Just because 'some' German states took a census for 'some' time period, does not qualify for comparison to a country which established a census at its very founding for the sole reason of having a representative government of the people, by the people, for the people. The detail which was added later seemed like a nice afterthought.

Any German census and/or Seelenregister was taken for reasons other than representation. It was typically to count the available military base or for reasons of taxation. It was therefore sporadic in nature and did not continue over a period of over 250 years on a regular basis.

I'm sure Jens knows this and simply wants to make a point that some censuses were taken in some German states for some time period. Still, a one for one comparison can not be made as the German states basicaly were autocracies who considered their citizens as divine right subjects rather then as the basis of their right to rule them via an elective process.

Fred
26 Warren St. 
Beverly, NJ 08010 
FredRump(a)earthlink.net 
609-386-6846 

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be." Thomas Jefferson

-------------------------------------

From : "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com> 
To : NIEDERSACHSEN-L(a)rootsweb.com 
Subject : Re: [<nieder>] Census in Germany 
Date : Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:42:41 -0700
 
Carol and Fred are right of course, when one compares available German censuses against those found here in the US, which were generally more thorough as well as consistent. However you would have to have a hole in your head not to fully explore the possibilities afforded by the censuses that do exist in Germany, and in particular those that were taken in the former kingdom of Hannover. 

It may be hit or miss, this is correct, but some of the censuses enumerated in that region were remarkably detailed. The ones I've reviewed were a goldmine that equaled those found here in America for the same time period. It's just that they do not cover the same degree of time spans as we count on here, or as they do in Britain for that matter. They're also not to be found in every area on any regular basis (many are not detailed in great depth to boot). The fractured, non-federalized nature of the German states did not allow for such a possibility. So if one counts on censuses as they exist in Germany to cover the kind of ground we've come to expect here in the States you're being unrealistic, and probably in for a letdown.

Jb

-------------------------------------

From : "Don Watson" <dwat(a)cox.net> 
To : NIEDERSACHSEN-L(a)rootsweb.com 
Subject : Re: [<nieder>] Census in Germany 
Date : Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:05:40 -0500 

You wrote.........

"It may be hit or miss, this is correct, but some of the censuses enumerated in that region were remarkably detailed. The ones I've reviewed were a goldmine that equaled those found here in America for the same time period."

Was your review offline on online? Details?

:-) Don

-------------------------------------

From : "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com> 
To : NIEDERSACHSEN-L(a)rootsweb.com 
Subject : Re: [<nieder>] Census in Germany 
Date : Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:06:46 -0700

The censuses I've reviewed were in LDS holdings microfilmed and available stateside. It took me a bit of time to go through the areas that interested me. These holdings, even for the Niedersachsen area, are sporadic, and some areas are much better covered than others. My advice to all is simply this: if you have narrowed down an area that you have reason to believe your family may have once have resided, at least do a cursory check to see if any censuses for that location have been filmed. But keep in mind, where some will be quite surprised with what they may find, others will be sorely disappointed - perhaps even the majority. Unfortunately it's a crapshoot, there's no way around it. 

Moreover, some censuses for that region are little more than glorified taxation rolls, others include the heads of families only, yet others provide for entire family units, to include individual family members names, ages and relationships, house & street addresses, etc. Thus the remarks/advice given by Carol and Fred remain valid.

Jb

-------------------------------------

From : hrs(a)hist.de 
To : hannover-l(a)genealogy.net 
Subject : Re: [HN] Re: [<nieder>] Census in Germany 
Date : Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:06:44 +0200

Hi Fred,

Hello to all Niedersachsen readers,

I have the greatest respect for Fred and his work and can only say that I agree to two key points he added to my long census postings. My intention was not to qualify the German census records for comparison to the long tradition of the US censuses, but to point out that some German census records are very important, but still "sleeping" sources for genealogical, especially for emigration research.

1) All German censuses (at least in the 19th century) were taken for other reasons and often with other intentions as the US ones, surely not for representation.

2) As important as some German census - and especially the Hannover censuses of the 1850s and 1860s - were, we do not have a any detailed census taken over a long period of time as the USA has. At least we do not have long periods covered by preserved censuses with the kind of value as the US census records.

What we have are spot lights and important census records for certain periods and certain areas. But this is MUCH more than nothing, especially for Hannover.

My point is that a lot of archivists, historians and genealogists in Germany and in the USA do not know that there are any important and valueable German census records. These census records are very seldom used for genealogical research. But the 1852 Hannover census (as the example I pointed on) - widespread over more than two dozends of archives and not indexed at all - is a treasure chest which is still not opened after nobody has access to the census records based on any name index.

We only have out 2% of the whole census in our database yet (already about 40.000 people in one year), but there are examples like this:

I got a request in which a lady asked for help to find her ancestors Heimnrich KRÜGER (* 1822), his wife Eliese (* 1817) and their son Heinrich (* 1851). They were from "Hanover".

I found:
 QUERNHEIM No. 37
 Friedrich Heinrich Kröger, worker, 30 years old
 Elise Kröger, his wife, 36 years old
 Sophie Kröger, daughter, 4 years old
 Heinrich, son, 1 years old.

In the meantime is is clear and verified that these Krügers (spelling variation of Krüger) were indeed the ancestors this lady searched for. Especially if it comes to such common family names so other source or record in Germany would have allowed to find this family.

Best greetings from Bremen, Germany,

Jens

P.S.: No Jens Kaufmann, who is a collegue of mine, ...

===================================

[HN] 19th century German censuses
Date: 2006/12/11 20:23:45
From: K E <kenofnocal(a)yahoo.com>

Greetings,

I'm wondering if someone might be able to answer a few
basic questions about German censuses. Specifically,
I'd like to know when census data was first collected,
whether there are census records for the Kingdom of
Hanover during the 19th century, and how I might
access records for the Harz Mountains region (Herzberg
am Harz, Osterode am Harz, etc). I'm trying to
determine if there was a Hempel family in the region
during that period.

Thanks for any insights you may have.

Best regards,

Kenneth

_________________________________________________________________
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Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses

Date: 2006/12/13 01:57:28
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello,

     If you run a search here by using the name of Hempel with Osterode, you
will find a listing that does connect that name and town:

http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp

That should lead you to this:

http://db.genealogy.net/vereine/daten_search.php?familiennamen=hempel&orte=o
sterode&verein=CompGen

  The name of Bernd Scholze is there with email address.  Perhaps he can
give you some information.

Barbara




on 12/11/06 12:23 PM, K E at kenofnocal(a)yahoo.com wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> I'm wondering if someone might be able to answer a few
> basic questions about German censuses. Specifically,
> I'd like to know when census data was first collected,
> whether there are census records for the Kingdom of
> Hanover during the 19th century, and how I might
> access records for the Harz Mountains region (Herzberg
> am Harz, Osterode am Harz, etc). I'm trying to
> determine if there was a Hempel family in the region
> during that period.
> 
> Thanks for any insights you may have.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Kenneth
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Possel

Date: 2006/12/13 03:00:38
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Gustavo,

      Perhaps you have seen this:
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1949239&id=I9457
1593
     A daughter of Gustav's (born in Chile) is the only child listed. His
father Emil was born in Germany and mother Caroline Tenheaff was born in
Alsace.  

     If you do a search on the LDS site with only the name Possel and click
on the box (exact spelling only), you will find the name of Possel in Stade,
Hannover. There are a lot of other places where the name of Possel probably
occurs.  

Barbara


on 12/12/06 11:53 AM, Gustavo Possel at gpossel(a)pelambres.cl wrote:

> Dear friends,
> I am searching for people from my family ( Pössel Tenheaff ) that may have
> survived WWII in the Hannover area.
> We are currently living in Chile and my family derives from my grandfather
> Gustav Oliver Pössel Tenheaff who came to stay in Chile at the beginning of
> WWI. Any guidance will be welcome.
> 
> Gustavo Pössel
> 
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]
> En nombre de Jon Efken
> Enviado el: martes, 12 de diciembre de 2006 2:54
> Para: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> Asunto: [HN] Efken
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> I am searching for information on my family surname Efken.
> 
> I know that some Efkens lived in the Hannover area.
> 
> There is a record of Harm Johansen Efken's marriage in Hannover in 1738.
> 
> Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give me.
> 
> Jon Efken
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Telephone Buch Hannover 1948- look up if possible

Date: 2006/12/13 07:56:38
From: tailby <tailby(a)xtra.co.nz>

Liebe Liste,

Hat zufaellig jemand das Telefonbuch von Hannover von 1948, auch etwas davor
oder danach?? Oder hat die Moeglichkeit nachzuschlagen. Ich suche nach FRITZ
WEBER mit Frau Toni. Ich weiss leider keine Adresse. Ich habe jede Menge
alte Postkarten von ihm an meinen Grossvater ( seinen Bruder) - habe aber
sonst keinerlei Hinweise, wo er und seine Familie in Hannover gewohnt haben.
Um jeden Hinweis waere ich dankbar.
Lieben Gruss
Angie




Re: [HN] Secretive

Date: 2006/12/13 08:58:27
From: Per-Olav Hildebrand <perolavhildebrand(a)t-online.de>

Jb
well written, I enjoyed reading it (as usual).
Poh

Re: [HN] Possel

Date: 2006/12/13 12:45:44
From: Gustavo Possel <gpossel(a)pelambres.cl>

Barbara,
Thanks for your kind response, truly enough, my greatgrandfather was in Fact Emil, an architect working for the Municipality of Hannover, and his wife was Caroline.I will search further with the tips you provided, 
Regards,
Gustavo


-----Mensaje original-----
De: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] En nombre de R&B Stewart
Enviado el: martes, 12 de diciembre de 2006 23:00
Para: Hannover-L
Asunto: [HN] Possel

Hello Gustavo,

      Perhaps you have seen this:
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1949239&id=I9457
1593
     A daughter of Gustav's (born in Chile) is the only child listed. His
father Emil was born in Germany and mother Caroline Tenheaff was born in
Alsace.  

     If you do a search on the LDS site with only the name Possel and click
on the box (exact spelling only), you will find the name of Possel in Stade,
Hannover. There are a lot of other places where the name of Possel probably
occurs.  

Barbara


on 12/12/06 11:53 AM, Gustavo Possel at gpossel(a)pelambres.cl wrote:

> Dear friends,
> I am searching for people from my family ( Pössel Tenheaff ) that may have
> survived WWII in the Hannover area.
> We are currently living in Chile and my family derives from my grandfather
> Gustav Oliver Pössel Tenheaff who came to stay in Chile at the beginning of
> WWI. Any guidance will be welcome.
> 
> Gustavo Pössel
> 
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]
> En nombre de Jon Efken
> Enviado el: martes, 12 de diciembre de 2006 2:54
> Para: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> Asunto: [HN] Efken
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> I am searching for information on my family surname Efken.
> 
> I know that some Efkens lived in the Hannover area.
> 
> There is a record of Harm Johansen Efken's marriage in Hannover in 1738.
> 
> Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give me.
> 
> Jon Efken
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



[HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (Julia Hattorff)

Date: 2006/12/13 17:10:05
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Good evening to all listies
 
We have been talking many times about ancestry.com. I have a membership  
there but sometimes i check the name Hattorf and Hattorff at genealogy.com too.  
And to my surprise it looks like they might have different datas? 
 
What is more than curious, cause they are both part of myfamily.com.
 
There have been Hattorffs in the shiplist at genealogy.com but not at  
ancestry. With the time they got the same results too. 
 
But there is still something at genealogy.com that would interest me. There  
i found searching Hattorff a certain Julia Hattorff and they say they have 2  
results in genealogical papers and historical papers. But just to see that two 
 results it makes no sense to pay a membership for 199 US-Dollar.
 
If there is someone in our group who has access to genealogy.com. It would  
be very intersting, cause there have been two Julias in NY .... mother and  
daughter and i could never find the mother after the 1850 census again.
 
Thank you all and have a nice evening
 
Armin

[HN] Klinker/Heide/Truelsen or Traulsen

Date: 2006/12/13 22:34:37
From: Juergen Drees <J.Drees(a)gmx.net>

[Forwarded message on behalf of "Connie Miller"
<cmiller8139(a)cableone.net>]
I am searching for these surnames in the Schwabstedt area.  Anyone
searching or with information regarding these families, please contact
me.
  
Ich suche nach diesen Familiennameen im Schwabstedt Bereich. Suchendes
jedermann oder mit den Informationen betreffend sind diese Familien,
treten  mit mir bitte in Verbindung.
  
Idaho lady.



Re: [HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (Julia Hattorff)

Date: 2006/12/14 01:46:00
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello,
      In  the 1870 census (Clay-WD-Richmond Virginia) there is:
      Frederick A. Hattorf age 52 born in Hannover, manufacturer of
bitters??                                                        hard to
read).
Also Mary, age 24 Keeping house, born (can't read it),
       Amelia, age 8, Robert age 5, Sophia age 2
       This is on page 89 and 90

        There is another Hattorf in 1870 by the name of AM Hattorf, age 54
in Carrollton Louisiana, born in Louisiana. He is black. Living with another
male  Hattorf (can't read the first name).
   
      That is all I can find of Hattorf or Hattorff in 1870.
 
       In 1880, there is another listing of Hattorfs (same family as above)
in Henrico County Virginaia.  Frederick but there is Mary, age 38 born in
Saxony, and the children born in Hannover.

     I doubt that this is any help to you.  I am using the Heritage Quest
index to the census.  Obviously, there are many mistakes by the census taker
and how the person reads it for the index.

     I don't find Hattorf(f) in 1860.  The census for 1830, 1840, and 1850
are not on the system at all.  I tried variations of spelling, but still
found no more. 

Barbara




on 12/13/06 9:09 AM, AJHattorf(a)aol.com at AJHattorf(a)aol.com wrote:

> Good evening to all listies
> 
> We have been talking many times about ancestry.com. I have a membership
> there but sometimes i check the name Hattorf and Hattorff at genealogy.com
> too.  
> And to my surprise it looks like they might have different datas?
> 
> What is more than curious, cause they are both part of myfamily.com.
> 
> There have been Hattorffs in the shiplist at genealogy.com but not at
> ancestry. With the time they got the same results too.
> 
> But there is still something at genealogy.com that would interest me. There
> i found searching Hattorff a certain Julia Hattorff and they say they have 2
> results in genealogical papers and historical papers. But just to see that two
> results it makes no sense to pay a membership for 199 US-Dollar.
> 
> If there is someone in our group who has access to genealogy.com. It would
> be very intersting, cause there have been two Julias in NY .... mother and
> daughter and i could never find the mother after the 1850 census again.
> 
> Thank you all and have a nice evening
> 
> Armin
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Efken

Date: 2006/12/14 03:04:40
From: Jon Efken <jee(a)wowway.com>

Barbara,

Thanks for the response.  I'm pretty new to all of this.
It seems like, if I can just catch a break and find the right
church, I can search their records.  I'm just having a hard
time making the connection.

What did you see about the Efkens in later years in Berßen?

It's a unique name.

Thanks again,

Jon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] Efken


> Hello,
>
>      I have seen the LDS record of that Efken marriage.  The Gerdes family
> can be followed very far back, as you know.  Efken is another issue.  I
find
> Efken in later years in Berßen. That is from a family lineage book
> (Ortsippenbuch or Ortsfamilienbuch).  Not much help to you. There is also
> such a book for Horsten where the marriage took place.  It was completed
by
> Erhard Schulte, but from what I can see online, it is no longer in print.
>
>     I would suggest that you do a great many Google searches for the Efken
> name with or without the name of Horsten.   There are 70 hits in the
German
> Telephone Book for Efken.  Maybe that would help you find someone who may
be
> albe to help.  http://www.telefonbuch.de/
>
> Good luck!
> Barbara
>
>
>
>
>
> on 12/11/06 10:54 PM, Jon Efken at jee(a)wowway.com wrote:
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I am searching for information on my family surname Efken.
> >
> > I know that some Efkens lived in the Hannover area.
> >
> > There is a record of Harm Johansen Efken's marriage in Hannover in 1738.
> >
> > Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give me.
> >
> > Jon Efken
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>



Re: [HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (Julia Hattorff)

Date: 2006/12/14 06:19:45
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Armin,

A few years ago genealogy.com allowed offered monthy subscription price for the ship records. I think I paid about $15.00 for a month. At that time they did not have any viewable ship records..I think the records for the most part were from various publications such as Germans to America and the like.

You mentioned that the Hattorf surname at genealogy.com references two results..genealogical papers and historical papers. Is there further source data included with the result of genealogical papers and/or historical papers..such as dates/location, publisher, etc.? Perhaps alternate source of data could be located...

Barbie-Lew

P.S. Perhaps there is free trial period you could sign for in order to gather this data.

BTW. Genealogical & Historical papers may just mean that the name appears in a published genealogy... which would not likely be extremely valuable data if only a name with birth and deathdate.

Hello,
      In  the 1870 census (Clay-WD-Richmond Virginia) there is:
      Frederick A. Hattorf age 52 born in Hannover, manufacturer of
bitters??                                                        hard to
read).
Also Mary, age 24 Keeping house, born (can't read it),
       Amelia, age 8, Robert age 5, Sophia age 2
       This is on page 89 and 90

        There is another Hattorf in 1870 by the name of AM Hattorf, age 54
in Carrollton Louisiana, born in Louisiana. He is black. Living with another
male  Hattorf (can't read the first name).

      That is all I can find of Hattorf or Hattorff in 1870.

       In 1880, there is another listing of Hattorfs (same family as above)
in Henrico County Virginaia.  Frederick but there is Mary, age 38 born in
Saxony, and the children born in Hannover.

     I doubt that this is any help to you.  I am using the Heritage Quest
index to the census.  Obviously, there are many mistakes by the census taker
and how the person reads it for the index.

     I don't find Hattorf(f) in 1860.  The census for 1830, 1840, and 1850
are not on the system at all.  I tried variations of spelling, but still
found no more.

Barbara




on 12/13/06 9:09 AM, AJHattorf(a)aol.com at AJHattorf(a)aol.com wrote:

> Good evening to all listies
>
> We have been talking many times about ancestry.com. I have a membership
> there but sometimes i check the name Hattorf and Hattorff at genealogy.com
> too.
> And to my surprise it looks like they might have different datas?
>
> What is more than curious, cause they are both part of myfamily.com.
>
> There have been Hattorffs in the shiplist at genealogy.com but not at
> ancestry. With the time they got the same results too.
>
> But there is still something at genealogy.com that would interest me. There > i found searching Hattorff a certain Julia Hattorff and they say they have 2 > results in genealogical papers and historical papers. But just to see that two
> results it makes no sense to pay a membership for 199 US-Dollar.
>
> If there is someone in our group who has access to genealogy.com. It would > be very intersting, cause there have been two Julias in NY .... mother and
> daughter and i could never find the mother after the 1850 census again.
>
> Thank you all and have a nice evening
>
> Armin
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
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[HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (Julia Hattorff) (Barbara)

Date: 2006/12/14 06:36:58
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Hi Barbara
 
Thanks for your mail. Yes your right. 
 
The 1870 census is Frederick A. Hattorf (Friedrich August Hattorff from  
Memsen/Hoya Kingdom Hannover son of Johann August Hattorff, Sergeant major in  the 
KGL).
 
I had problems too to read the profession manufacturer of
bitters.
 
Yes he had later a concession for bitters cause they had a local called  
Hattorf's Garden in Richmond VA.
 
The black Hattorf is a mistery did some of those VA Hattorfs had a illegal  
son lol. No i think this is one of the Hattorf(f)s which is a misspelling like  
some Hattoff are Hattorffs or some Hattorffs are Hattoffs or Hittoffs. I have 
a  lot of misspellings to fill a letter, Hallorf, Haltorf, Hattoff, Hatdorf,  
Hattore, Hattorss (in 1860 F.A: is misspelled as F.A: Hattorss)
 
Mary is the wife of Frederick A. she came from Saxonia from Gayro, what  ever 
this town should be there is no Gayro in Germany, perhaps they ment Gera in  
Saxony.
 
But the problem is Frederick A. was coming around 1842/43 to the USA he is  
in the citydirectory of Brooklyn in the year 1843 !
 
And he was married in NY with a certain JULIA. And thats the reason why i  
would like to know if genealogy.com has additional infos about his first  wife.
 
Somewere between 1850 and 1860 F.A: is leaving New York to go to Virginia  in 
his original profession he was segar dealer (cigar dealer) he is in the 1850  
census as Fred Haltorf born in England (what is very correct he is born  
Uxbridge).
 
On his tombstone you find Frederick A. Hattoff born Oxbridge even in his  
death he is misspelled.
 
I have a lot of stuff of his second life in VA. How many money he had and  
s.o. 
 
But i have nothing about his "first life" in NY. What happened with his  
family with Julia and the kids after 1860 i couldnt find them in the 1860 census  
and not in the 1870, 1880. I have to turn around each and every page of the  
census NY it will take me years !!!
 
So i hoped to find the needle in the hay something about Julia at  
genealogy.com (if it is not Julia Hattorff born 1851 who is probably his  daughter too), 
cause they have 2 informations about a certain Julia  Hattorff.
 
Thank you Barbara for your help
 
Armin
 
 

[HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (Julia Hattorff)

Date: 2006/12/14 06:42:30
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Dear Barbie
 
Thank you for your mail. I know that genealgy.com had a monthly description  
a few years ago. Thats how i found those names of the shiplist long before 
they  came up at ancestry.com.
 
Yes its right, they had no images only the plain text, but anyway it was an  
information. With those informations i could find now that ancestry has the  
shiplists complete one of my family cause with the exact date of arrival and 
the  name of the ship it was easy.
 
The problem is that those datas are surely somewhere published but for me  
its not always easy to search through all those sources in the USA. Having a  
hint to know what text is in those infos at genealogy would be perhaps  helpful.
 
Best regards
 
Armin

Re: [HN] Possel & TenHaeff Possible Resource

Date: 2006/12/14 06:46:23
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Gustavo,

Have you ever tried searching this site? (German War Graves)

http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche/content_suche.asp

Search for the surname Tenhaeff gives 5 results. Some of the results include a birthdate and birthplace as well as burial place. Perhaps contacting the volksbund or the Friedhoff indicated might be of assistance in locating living bearers of this surname. I don't know.

I wonder if perhaps those listed that include bithdate, birthplace and burial site..might be possible that a death certificate, military file, notice to family members might exist???

Barbie-Lew



Barbara,
Thanks for your kind response, truly enough, my greatgrandfather was in Fact Emil, an architect working for the Municipality of Hannover, and his wife was Caroline.I will search further with the tips you provided,
Regards,
Gustavo


-----Mensaje original-----
De: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] En nombre de R&B Stewart
Enviado el: martes, 12 de diciembre de 2006 23:00
Para: Hannover-L
Asunto: [HN] Possel

Hello Gustavo,

      Perhaps you have seen this:
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1949239&id=I9457
1593
     A daughter of Gustav's (born in Chile) is the only child listed. His
father Emil was born in Germany and mother Caroline Tenheaff was born in
Alsace.

     If you do a search on the LDS site with only the name Possel and click
on the box (exact spelling only), you will find the name of Possel in Stade,
Hannover. There are a lot of other places where the name of Possel probably
occurs.

Barbara


on 12/12/06 11:53 AM, Gustavo Possel at gpossel(a)pelambres.cl wrote:

> Dear friends,
> I am searching for people from my family ( Pössel Tenheaff ) that may have
> survived WWII in the Hannover area.
> We are currently living in Chile and my family derives from my grandfather > Gustav Oliver Pössel Tenheaff who came to stay in Chile at the beginning of
> WWI. Any guidance will be welcome.
>
> Gustavo Pössel
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]
> En nombre de Jon Efken
> Enviado el: martes, 12 de diciembre de 2006 2:54
> Para: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> Asunto: [HN] Efken
>
> Dear All,
>
> I am searching for information on my family surname Efken.
>
> I know that some Efkens lived in the Hannover area.
>
> There is a record of Harm Johansen Efken's marriage in Hannover in 1738.
>
> Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give me.
>
> Jon Efken
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


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Re: [HN] Efken

Date: 2006/12/14 07:14:23
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Jon,

         Finding the place of birth of an ancestor can be most difficult,
but so necessary!  You aren't the only one with that problem!
     
Here is the Berßen Efken information:

http://www.online-ofb.de/famlist.php?ofb=berssen&b=E&lang=de&modus=

     Click on each of the many versions of the name Efken:
EEFFCKEN
EEFKEN
EFFCKEN
EFFKEN 
EFKEN       
     Those are just different spellings of the same surname.  Happens a lot
in old records.  
        
       Berßen was a mostly Catholic town.  If your family wasn't Catholic,
it may be better to look elsewhere.  That marriage on the LDS site was from
Horsten and that area is most likely not Catholic.

     What is the full name of your ancestor?

Barbara



on 12/13/06 7:04 PM, Jon Efken at jee(a)wowway.com wrote:

> Barbara,
> 
> Thanks for the response.  I'm pretty new to all of this.
> It seems like, if I can just catch a break and find the right
> church, I can search their records.  I'm just having a hard
> time making the connection.
> 
> What did you see about the Efkens in later years in Berßen?
> 
> It's a unique name.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Jon
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [HN] Efken
> 
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I have seen the LDS record of that Efken marriage.  The Gerdes family
>> can be followed very far back, as you know.  Efken is another issue.  I
> find
>> Efken in later years in Berßen. That is from a family lineage book
>> (Ortsippenbuch or Ortsfamilienbuch).  Not much help to you. There is also
>> such a book for Horsten where the marriage took place.  It was completed
> by
>> Erhard Schulte, but from what I can see online, it is no longer in print.
>> 
>> I would suggest that you do a great many Google searches for the Efken
>> name with or without the name of Horsten.   There are 70 hits in the
> German
>> Telephone Book for Efken.  Maybe that would help you find someone who may
> be
>> albe to help.  http://www.telefonbuch.de/
>> 
>> Good luck!
>> Barbara
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> on 12/11/06 10:54 PM, Jon Efken at jee(a)wowway.com wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear All,
>>> 
>>> I am searching for information on my family surname Efken.
>>> 
>>> I know that some Efkens lived in the Hannover area.
>>> 
>>> There is a record of Harm Johansen Efken's marriage in Hannover in 1738.
>>> 
>>> Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give me.
>>> 
>>> Jon Efken
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
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>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [HN] Secretive

Date: 2006/12/14 07:46:03
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Thanks Per-Olav. Your comment made it worth the time to put together those thoughts. Sometimes you wish for a little more discussion on these kinds of things, being that you hear them quite often from folks doing family research - German in particular - but realistically, most are here to track down their ancestors' particulars and not wax poetic. [plus my directness and/or opinions sometimes offend some folks, but what's new there?]

Still, I do understand those who ponder or question the seemingly "secretive" natures so many of our predecessors displayed. It is a regrettable but all too common trait amongst first, and even second, generation German Americans, and naturally compels those even further removed to question why. Why so much "hush hush" from our progenitors about their past? Personally I'm not sure how much of this is a consequence of the elders not speaking up and revealing such things, or the youngsters of the following generation - and most descendents beyond - not having enough interest to ask the questions when the getting was good. Particularly, as their lives were racing past in full burn mode, when finding a mate, making money and raising kids is first and foremost, and conversing with the "old fogies" in the family on such matters was rarely deemed worthy of the time or consideration. It cuts both ways, with faults lying on both sides. Sadly it takes half of forever for us to reach adequate maturity, to figure out what matters most, and by then it's either time to leave or throw in the towel.

Also, when parents are given to certain behavioral responses (like silence) on matters they deem off-limits (or of negligible importance), quite often the children will inherit those sensitivities too, if even unintentionally, as I think we all have seen. For that reason, this silence about the past often found its way to the second generation also (beyond that generation's desire to be as "American" as possible as quickly as possible, so as to fit in better socially). By the time the third or fourth generation began asking serious questions about their antecedents, the key players who might have provided the answers earlier had invariably left the scene. There simply wasn't anyone left, even among the contemporary elders, who could fill the void adequately - leaving one and all "in the dark" as to the family's roots.

Surely a small percentage of folks who left the Fatherland made their exits with what could legitimately be called "secrets" in tow, things they preferred covered up or forgotten for good, maybe a handful of illegitimate ship-offs, or remittance-men in contractual indenture, etc. etc. One can never truly be certain of such things in all cases. But the chances of those things being the root of any given family's lack of ancestral knowledge are still fairly thin in the end. I know for a fact our family had a rather turbulent send-off from Hannover, the story of which all current lines of descent - no matter how far removed from one another - have heard bits and pieces. Could there be a few secrets yet to be discovered in this regard? Certainly. But by far the most common German emigrant scenario is that of those who saw little promise with their stations in life and the overall status quo, be it for economic, political or religious reasons, and were looking for a way out. I'm sure a tiny percentage were folks in trouble or "on the run," still others must have been what we call 'free spirits,' and no doubt an ample amount were made up of adventurers looking to strike it rich in foreign places. But reasons for most to be "secretive" about their past? Maybe it'd be better to ask, what kinds of secrets could most of them have had?

Here's a kicker though. When my great grandfather's sister's husband [= great granduncle of mine] died of old age, after having lived in California for over 50 years, his surviving spouse - who had an otherwise pleasant and long life (nearly 90 years) and successful marriage (60+ years) inexplicably gathered up all of his things - his notebooks, his military papers, his old officer's uniform (of which he was always proud), his meticulously kept letters, pretty much their entire collection of surviving memorabilia and connection to the past, put it in a large pile in the backyard, and set it on fire. Even more disturbing, it was done amongst pleas from her daughter and grandson (who, with misty eyes, relayed this story to me many years ago when he himself was about to leave the scene) not to do so. But she was adamant and would hear none of it. Was this an intentional cutting off of the bridge to the past, perhaps to solidify forever the family's new American identity, or the inexplicable act of a old woman apparently out of her mind? Or indeed and perhaps, the obliteration of secrets from the past? One can only wonder at this late point.

Jb

PS. This was the daughter of the family matriarch I mentioned earlier (the matriarch who longed to return to Hildesheim). As you can see clearly, it amounts to two very different faces from the same family coin.

From: "Per-Olav Hildebrand" <perolavhildebrand(a)t-online.de>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Secretive
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:58:05 +0100

Jb
well written, I enjoyed reading it (as usual).
Poh

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Re: [HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com

Date: 2006/12/14 09:55:29
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Armin Ha-XXX[fill in your own letters]XXx-orf wrote:

The black Hattorf is a mistery did some of those VA Hattorfs had a illegal
son lol. No i think this is one of the Hattorf(f)s which is a misspelling like some Hattoff are Hattorffs or some Hattorffs are Hattoffs or Hittoffs. I have a lot of misspellings to fill a letter, Hallorf, Haltorf, Hattoff, Hatdorf,
Hattore, Hattorss (in 1860 F.A: is misspelled as F.A: Hattorss)

On his tombstone you find Frederick A. Hattoff born Oxbridge even in his
death he is misspelled.

Hey Armin! If you don't have a plethora of different spellings for your German surnames, you haven't done enough research! That goes for everyone else on this list by the way. But seeing you have so many verifiable misspellings out the kazoo, you are to be commended! You have certainly been paying your dues, and are being rewarded in kind with fits of frustration in return. Isn't genealogy wonderful? ;-)

Now don't complain or I'll find you but another variant on those names (you'd probably like that though). In the end, this sport is all about one's tolerance for pain!

To answer your question from earlier, in the name of survival - and making a few legitimate bucks - most of the big online genealogical data providers like Ancestry.com and Genealogy.com and even HeritageQuest have formed partnerships with other data miners in the field just to stay afloat, most to be further gobbled up by even bigger fish (a la MyFamily.com). So though technically the majority of these providers are now under a single parent umbrella, the fact remains they all possess proprietary information unique to their own service, and have for the most part independent indexers, transcribers and acquisition units. This allows each of them to remain somewhat competitive, and not become completely stale and redundant. That explains the similar, but not identical, holdings you often run across.

Likewise the indexes you find will fluctuate widely. Some borrow heavily from the older style Accelerated Indexes that were done many years ago (most noticeably seen at Ancestry.com), while others are newer and strictly proprietary, like those from HeritageQuest and Genealogy.com (and a few from LDS itself). If they didn't go this way, the fine folks in Provo, Utah, who run the big show @ MyFamily might as well fold up these individual subsidiary tents, gobble up HQ/PQ once and for all, and raise a single, all-encompassing flag. With both HeritageQuest and Genealogy.com in partnership with Proquest Information as it is, the data mines of that industry have morphed into something of a quasi-monopoly, but who's to complain when so much is being provided as conveniently as it is - and cheaply.

Ok, it's back to the head banging. Jb

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Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses

Date: 2006/12/14 11:43:29
From: Brouwers <anmaristin(a)zeelandnet.nl>

JB,      I live in southern Netherlands right next to the Beliguim border so
sometimes I go to the Morman family center in Antwerpen to order films and
for Holland no problem, but for Germany I am not allowed to order any films,
the center in Vlissingen ( over the phone) says the same thing "no german
films are allowed to be ordered" from Beliguim or the Netherlands.  So what
now?  any suggestions would be greatly appreicated.
----- Original Message -----
From: "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses


> To Ken and others: There are a good number 19th century German censuses
> available, but they tend to be rather "hit-and-miss" as a whole. Some are
> quite detailed, others provide only scant info at best. And as Suzanne
wrote
> earlier, without knowing the village or town where they were located,
> searching blindly will cost you a lot of time and money :: and
frustration.
> There are no master indexes to be had at present, you must pinpoint - or
> narrow down considerably - the town or village or city in question. And
> every area in Germany is different in regards to the depth of their
> holdings.
>
> Your best bet is to find out what is available per the LDS [Mormon Church]
> indexes online. Or stop in at your local LDS FHC [Family History Center]
to
> search their microfiche holdings for the region in question. There you can
> order in the specific microfilms you choose to review later at length.
None
> of this is terribly expensive, in fact it is a great bargain versus any
> other means available currently. You can also make print-outs of anything
> you find on the microfilms or microfiches.
>
> Since census information is a much sought after subject on these lists,
I'll
> include from the Niedersachsen [Rootsweb] archives a series of posts -
> excerpted a bit for clarity - from a few years back that were partially
> cross-linked to Hannover-L. They cover a lot of ground and should provide
a
> helpful overview for anyone still in the dark on this subject.
>
> Jb
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> >From : SaintWare(a)aol.com
> To : NIEDERSACHSEN-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject : [<nieder>] Census in Germany
> Date : Fri, 29 Aug 2003 02:26:45 EDT
>
> Look at it this way: It is modern democracy that needs a census. A
regular,
> informative census (which incidentally provides valuable genealogical
data)
> such as we have in the States was never kept in any of the multitude of
> states that over the last millenium existed in the area we now think of as
> Germany.
>
> Occasionally some prince or duke had the people in his region counted for
> tax purposes. These were called something like "Seelenregister" (A
Register
> of Souls, literally). I once found helpful information in one because I
> already knew the family I was looking for, and I knew that they had run a
> farm. The"Seelenregister" told me that several of the younger members of
the
> family were in Holland that summer (Hollandgänger), and that the
> grandparents were living in the dower house, which were interesting
details.
> The State archives can tell you if they have any such registers, which are
> not indexed, btw.
>
> However, there simply is no large wide-reaching body of information like
the
> US Censuses for finding out where your ancestors lived. Period. Family
> Search.com idexes many of the German church records, at least the ones
which
> were microfilmed over the last 50 years by the Church of the Latter Day
> Saints (Mormons). These parish records are the only real chance of finding
> out information about your ancestors - once you know the village or town
> they came from.
>
> If you have a rare name, using the modern day German telephone book may
show
> you the locality where the name originated. Then you must search in
perhaps
> 20 individual parishes. If you have a common name, your job becomes more
> like looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack.
> The best hope for locating your ancestor's home village is family stories,
> for the name is often passed down - if not in your family, then perhaps in
> your cousin's. Barring that, a close examination of the first baptism
> records in the States sometimes produces a village name, usually
misspelled,
> but at least a clue to where to search.
>
> I'm sorry to be a wet blanket. :-)
>
> Carol Saint-Clair
>
> PS German democracy today is served by the local registry offices, as
> everyone is required to register their address there by law, and inform
them
> when one moves. Some years ago an attempt to have a real Census
> (Volkszaehlung) (again, just for statistical purposes) failed because of a
> grass-roots movement against it. :-)
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> >From : "Fred Rump" <FredRump(a)earthlink.net>
> To : NIEDERSACHSEN-L(a)rootsweb.com, hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> Subject : Re: [HN] Re: [<nieder>] Census in Germany
> Date : Fri, 29 Aug 2003 06:54:13 -0400
>
> On 29 Aug 2003 at 10:04, hrs(a)hist.de wrote:
>
> >-> CENSUS RECORDS
> > > A regular, informative census (which incidentally provides valuable
> > > genealogical data) such as we have in the States was never kept in
> > > any of the multitude of states that over the last millenium existed
> > > area we now think of as Germany.
> > > THIS IS NOT TRUE!
>
> For the record I must disagree with Jens Kaufmann on this. The above quote
> is essentially correct. There is no such thing - in any Germany state -
> where a detailed census was taken over a long period of time such as we
have
> in the United States. Just because 'some' German states took a census for
> 'some' time period, does not qualify for comparison to a country which
> established a census at its very founding for the sole reason of having a
> representative government of the people, by the people, for the people.
The
> detail which was added later seemed like a nice afterthought.
>
> Any German census and/or Seelenregister was taken for reasons other than
> representation. It was typically to count the available military base or
for
> reasons of taxation. It was therefore sporadic in nature and did not
> continue over a period of over 250 years on a regular basis.
>
> I'm sure Jens knows this and simply wants to make a point that some
censuses
> were taken in some German states for some time period. Still, a one for
one
> comparison can not be made as the German states basicaly were autocracies
> who considered their citizens as divine right subjects rather then as the
> basis of their right to rule them via an elective process.
>
> Fred
> 26 Warren St.
> Beverly, NJ 08010
> FredRump(a)earthlink.net
> 609-386-6846
>
> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was
and
> never will be." Thomas Jefferson
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> >From : "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
> To : NIEDERSACHSEN-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject : Re: [<nieder>] Census in Germany
> Date : Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:42:41 -0700
>
> Carol and Fred are right of course, when one compares available German
> censuses against those found here in the US, which were generally more
> thorough as well as consistent. However you would have to have a hole in
> your head not to fully explore the possibilities afforded by the censuses
> that do exist in Germany, and in particular those that were taken in the
> former kingdom of Hannover.
>
> It may be hit or miss, this is correct, but some of the censuses
enumerated
> in that region were remarkably detailed. The ones I've reviewed were a
> goldmine that equaled those found here in America for the same time
period.
> It's just that they do not cover the same degree of time spans as we count
> on here, or as they do in Britain for that matter. They're also not to be
> found in every area on any regular basis (many are not detailed in great
> depth to boot). The fractured, non-federalized nature of the German states
> did not allow for such a possibility. So if one counts on censuses as they
> exist in Germany to cover the kind of ground we've come to expect here in
> the States you're being unrealistic, and probably in for a letdown.
>
> Jb
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> >From : "Don Watson" <dwat(a)cox.net>
> To : NIEDERSACHSEN-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject : Re: [<nieder>] Census in Germany
> Date : Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:05:40 -0500
>
> You wrote.........
>
> "It may be hit or miss, this is correct, but some of the censuses
enumerated
> in that region were remarkably detailed. The ones I've reviewed were a
> goldmine that equaled those found here in America for the same time
period."
>
> Was your review offline on online? Details?
>
> :-) Don
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> >From : "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
> To : NIEDERSACHSEN-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject : Re: [<nieder>] Census in Germany
> Date : Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:06:46 -0700
>
> The censuses I've reviewed were in LDS holdings microfilmed and available
> stateside. It took me a bit of time to go through the areas that
interested
> me. These holdings, even for the Niedersachsen area, are sporadic, and
some
> areas are much better covered than others. My advice to all is simply
this:
> if you have narrowed down an area that you have reason to believe your
> family may have once have resided, at least do a cursory check to see if
any
> censuses for that location have been filmed. But keep in mind, where some
> will be quite surprised with what they may find, others will be sorely
> disappointed - perhaps even the majority. Unfortunately it's a crapshoot,
> there's no way around it.
>
> Moreover, some censuses for that region are little more than glorified
> taxation rolls, others include the heads of families only, yet others
> provide for entire family units, to include individual family members
names,
> ages and relationships, house & street addresses, etc. Thus the
> remarks/advice given by Carol and Fred remain valid.
>
> Jb
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> >From : hrs(a)hist.de
> To : hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> Subject : Re: [HN] Re: [<nieder>] Census in Germany
> Date : Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:06:44 +0200
>
> Hi Fred,
>
> Hello to all Niedersachsen readers,
>
> I have the greatest respect for Fred and his work and can only say that I
> agree to two key points he added to my long census postings. My intention
> was not to qualify the German census records for comparison to the long
> tradition of the US censuses, but to point out that some German census
> records are very important, but still "sleeping" sources for genealogical,
> especially for emigration research.
>
> 1) All German censuses (at least in the 19th century) were taken for other
> reasons and often with other intentions as the US ones, surely not for
> representation.
>
> 2) As important as some German census - and especially the Hannover
censuses
> of the 1850s and 1860s - were, we do not have a any detailed census taken
> over a long period of time as the USA has. At least we do not have long
> periods covered by preserved censuses with the kind of value as the US
> census records.
>
> What we have are spot lights and important census records for certain
> periods and certain areas. But this is MUCH more than nothing, especially
> for Hannover.
>
> My point is that a lot of archivists, historians and genealogists in
Germany
> and in the USA do not know that there are any important and valueable
German
> census records. These census records are very seldom used for genealogical
> research. But the 1852 Hannover census (as the example I pointed on) -
> widespread over more than two dozends of archives and not indexed at all -
> is a treasure chest which is still not opened after nobody has access to
the
> census records based on any name index.
>
> We only have out 2% of the whole census in our database yet (already about
> 40.000 people in one year), but there are examples like this:
>
> I got a request in which a lady asked for help to find her ancestors
> Heimnrich KRÜGER (* 1822), his wife Eliese (* 1817) and their son Heinrich
> (* 1851). They were from "Hanover".
>
> I found:
>  QUERNHEIM No. 37
>  Friedrich Heinrich Kröger, worker, 30 years old
>  Elise Kröger, his wife, 36 years old
>  Sophie Kröger, daughter, 4 years old
>  Heinrich, son, 1 years old.
>
> In the meantime is is clear and verified that these Krügers (spelling
> variation of Krüger) were indeed the ancestors this lady searched for.
> Especially if it comes to such common family names so other source or
record
> in Germany would have allowed to find this family.
>
> Best greetings from Bremen, Germany,
>
> Jens
>
> P.S.: No Jens Kaufmann, who is a collegue of mine, ...
>
> ===================================
>
> [HN] 19th century German censuses
> Date: 2006/12/11 20:23:45
> From: K E <kenofnocal(a)yahoo.com>
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm wondering if someone might be able to answer a few
> basic questions about German censuses. Specifically,
> I'd like to know when census data was first collected,
> whether there are census records for the Kingdom of
> Hanover during the 19th century, and how I might
> access records for the Harz Mountains region (Herzberg
> am Harz, Osterode am Harz, etc). I'm trying to
> determine if there was a Hempel family in the region
> during that period.
>
> Thanks for any insights you may have.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Kenneth
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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>


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Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses

Date: 2006/12/14 12:58:21
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi "Brouwers",

As there is supposed to be free flow of information between European countries, maybe you should aim that question towards your area MEP (Member of European Parliament). In England we have come to know that the wheels of the Belgian Parliament/beaurocracy turn very slowly - maybe they haven't addressed the subject of "Heritage" yet. I am surprised the Morman Centre doesn't order the films from America for you or even the UK which would sidetrack the importation of information from a banned source.

Rena
==
From: "Brouwers" <anmaristin(a)zeelandnet.nl>

JB,      I live in southern Netherlands right next to the Beliguim border so
sometimes I go to the Morman family center in Antwerpen to order films and
for Holland no problem, but for Germany I am not allowed to order any films,
the center in Vlissingen ( over the phone) says the same thing "no german
films are allowed to be ordered" from Beliguim or the Netherlands.  So what
now? any suggestions would be greatly appreicated.


[HN] FW: Re: 19th century German censuses

Date: 2006/12/14 13:18:24
From: Maureen Shelly <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>


I suppose you could drive over to Aachen or Dusseldorf or some other close German city where there might be a Mormon Family History Center that will have access to the films that you require. In the US, some public libraries can also get them for you, but I don't know if that is worldwide.

This seems to be a political problem more than anything else. But getting to Germany from your area is not so heard to do, a lot shorter than the ride of some US people to their closest Mormon Family History Center. Even if it is in the same state of the US, it can be a 6-hours drive or longer each way!

Maureen, currently visiting near Mons, BE!


Researching: Costello (Galway and Mayo), Cotter, Durcan/Durkin, Higgins, Lynch, Raftree/Raftery (Galway), Shannon, Sullivan, Amacher, Baur, Bove', Cremer, Ehlen, Fischer, Gansberg, Giefer, Hamacher, Hense/Henseler, Hofmann/Hoeffeler, Jackler/Jackelen, Jaegers, Koch, Kratz, Krebs, Marlo/Marlot/Morlo, Mueller/Meller, Mertes, Pick, Reetz, Rheinges,Reichardt/Reichert, Rick, Schmieden, Seitz/Zeidt, von Alleman/Vollerman, von Meer, Weiskopf, Zens, Albright, Compton, Corselius, Clemens/Clements, Daly (Galway), Early, Fallon (Galway), Greene (Waterford), Callaghan, Fitzgerald, McGrath (Waterford), Moss, Mullenix/Mullinax, Prichard, Reilly/O'Riley/Reiley, Shelly, Shook, Tye.




Hi "Brouwers",

As there is supposed to be free flow of information between European
countries, maybe you should aim that question towards your area MEP (Member
of European Parliament).   In England we have come to know that the wheels
of the Belgian Parliament/beaurocracy turn very slowly - maybe they haven't
addressed the subject of "Heritage" yet.    I am surprised the Morman Centre
doesn't order the films from America for you or even the UK which would
sidetrack the importation of information from a banned source.

Rena
==
From: "Brouwers" <anmaristin(a)zeelandnet.nl>

JB,      I live in southern Netherlands right next to the Beliguim border so
sometimes I go to the Morman family center in Antwerpen to order films and
for Holland no problem, but for Germany I am not allowed to order any films,
the center in Vlissingen ( over the phone) says the same thing "no german
films are allowed to be ordered" from Beliguim or the Netherlands.  So what
now?  any suggestions would be greatly appreicated.


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Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses

Date: 2006/12/14 13:41:15
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Hi Brouwers

German censuses are protected by German privacy laws, much of which is covered to the best of my knowledge under the Bundesdatenschutzgesetz (BDSG), or "Federal Data Protection Act." The BDSG specifically applies to (1) German federal offices, (2) German state offices, and (3) private bodies that process or use information for business, professional, or trade purposes. Nominally these laws have been put in place to protect the right to privacy for German citizens from being impaired through the handling of their personal data. The government in Germany cannot release information it collects by the bucketload from its citizens for 100 years.

This whole issue has become something of a growing problem for Germans, namely in deciding exactly what should considered public as opposed to private data, and nowhere is this more clearly visible than with data used for genealogical purposes. As it is, certain groups in Germany are working on extracting useable census data from historical records, but little of this is available currently.

Most believe that German privacy laws lose their power at the international frontiers of Germany. For example, I have seen a few films in the past labeled "only available outside of Germany". However I am quite certain I discovered, a good number of years ago now, that LDS abides by these privacy laws to the extent that NO German filmed records will be made available to Western Europeans, including Germans in LDS centers in Europe. The only way someone from Western Europe would be able to access those films would be to actually visit a LDS center outside Europe. Whether LDS, in areas like England, abides by this agreement I do not know. To my knowledge this is an LDS policy, and has nothing to do with policies or provisions put forth by governing bodies like the European Union or European Commission (of which I know dreadfully little).

German privacy laws do not cover church books I believe, so that is obviously an area one could key in on. Also, if an individual can show a legitimate reason, other than say frivolous data collection, that they should be allowed access to data otherwise covered under these privacy laws (as in a direct familial connection), the government has little choice but to release it to them.

Perhaps a few on the German side of the list can add a little more (or corrections as necessary). Or follow up on the smart suggestions given by both Rena and Maureen.

Jb

PS> For the Dutch, that sucks. :-(

From: "Brouwers" <anmaristin(a)zeelandnet.nl>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:45:58 +0100

JB, I live in southern Netherlands right next to the Beliguim border so
sometimes I go to the Morman family center in Antwerpen to order films and
for Holland no problem, but for Germany I am not allowed to order any films,
the center in Vlissingen ( over the phone) says the same thing "no german
films are allowed to be ordered" from Beliguim or the Netherlands.  So what
now?  any suggestions would be greatly appreicated.

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[HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (J b)

Date: 2006/12/14 13:42:05
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

 
Hi John
Nice to hear from you. Yes at the present time i am sitting hear  headbanging 
against my beautiful new screen. lol.
 
This is true each provider has some datas that others dont have .... and so  
i hoped to find someone in the list who may take a look on Julia Hattorff at  
genealogy.com. Very well knowing that in perhaps half a year or perhaps one  
year those datas might be suddenly available at ancestry.com too. But who has  
all the time of the world to sit here and wait when there are so many 
questions  about those family secrets.
 
I have meanwhile a pretty collection of misspellings of my name, which is  
surely not complete. Let me give you an example i have found Pauline Hattorff  
and her children in 1908 searching at Ellis Island. As i found them there they  
were misspelled as Hattarf what is close to the real name.
 
Now that ancestry has taken the datas from Ellis too, i wondered why i cant  
find Pauline in 1908. So i was looking exactly the date on which i found them 
at  Ellis Island and what did i found at ancestry.com. She is misspelled as 
Pauline  Hallanf what a beautiful new version.
 
 
Ok enjoy my little horror shop this is what i really found till today at  
ancestry.com and under all those name real Hattorf(f) s are hidden:
 
 
Vn  hattore, Haltorf,  Hatorff,  Huttorf,  Hartthorff,  Hatton,  Hatterf,  
Hattoff,  Hatorf,  Hatturff,  Hatlorf,  Holtorf,  Fattore,  Hattorp,  Hattori,  
Hattory,  Hattorss,  Haltfor,  Hattery,  Hallorf,  Hatoff,  Hattorfff,  
Hatdorf,  Hallanf, Hattorg,  Hattdorf. 
So  have a nice ancestry  hunt 
Armin



Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS

Date: 2006/12/14 13:59:09
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Oops little correction. We'll need to scratch Maureen's suggestion on this one, as the Germans will not have access to these records either at their local LDS centers (unless someone can cite differently). :: However :: somewhere in the distant past I seem to recall someone mentioning that they were able to view a whole array of films at their local LDS FHC in Wilhelmshaven. So who knows! Our German friends will need to speak up on this.

Jb

From: "Maureen Shelly" <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>
To: Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] FW: Re:  19th century German censuses
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:18:09 -0600

I suppose you could drive over to Aachen or Dusseldorf or some other close
German city where there might be a Mormon Family History Center that will
have access to the films that you require. In the US, some public libraries
can also get them for you, but I don't know if that is worldwide.

This seems to be a political problem more than anything else.  But getting
to Germany from your area is not so heard to do, a lot shorter than the ride of some US people to their closest Mormon Family History Center. Even if it
is in the same state of the US, it can be a 6-hours drive or longer each
way!

Maureen, currently visiting near Mons, BE!

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Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS

Date: 2006/12/14 14:27:21
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

What I know is, it is an instruction of the Roman Catholic church in Germany that the church registers may not be made available in Europe. On the other hand, the Protestant church acts is differently.
The lutheran church in Oldenburg district has never permitted to made film copy of the books.
In different to the lutheran church of the Osnabrück district, I believe this films you can order by LDS in Europe and Germany. I could order the film of Vörden by the LDS center here in Oldenburg.
You can check this by familysearch.org via place search.
Werner


> Oops little correction. We'll need to scratch Maureen's suggestion on this
> one, as the Germans will not have access to these records either at their
> local LDS centers (unless someone can cite differently). :: However ::
> somewhere in the distant past I seem to recall someone mentioning that
> they
> were able to view a whole array of films at their local LDS FHC in
> Wilhelmshaven. So who knows! Our German friends will need to speak up on
> this.

> Jb

>>From: "Maureen Shelly" <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>
>>To: Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>Subject: [HN] FW: Re:  19th century German censuses
>>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:18:09 -0600
>>
>>I suppose you could drive over to Aachen or Dusseldorf or some other close
>>German city where there might be a Mormon Family History Center that will
>>have access to the films that you require.  In the US, some public
>>libraries
>>can also get them for you, but I don't know if that is worldwide.
>>
>>This seems to be a political problem more than anything else.  But getting
>>to Germany from your area is not so heard to do, a lot shorter than the
>>ride
>>of some US people to their closest Mormon Family History Center.  Even if
>>it
>>is in the same state of the US, it can be a 6-hours drive or longer each
>>way!
>>
>>Maureen, currently visiting near Mons, BE!

> _________________________________________________________________
> WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes – enter the Microsoft Office Live
> Sweepstakes http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/




Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS

Date: 2006/12/14 14:27:21
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

What I know is,

> Oops little correction. We'll need to scratch Maureen's suggestion on this
> one, as the Germans will not have access to these records either at their
> local LDS centers (unless someone can cite differently). :: However ::
> somewhere in the distant past I seem to recall someone mentioning that
> they
> were able to view a whole array of films at their local LDS FHC in
> Wilhelmshaven. So who knows! Our German friends will need to speak up on
> this.

> Jb

>>From: "Maureen Shelly" <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>
>>To: Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>Subject: [HN] FW: Re:  19th century German censuses
>>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:18:09 -0600
>>
>>I suppose you could drive over to Aachen or Dusseldorf or some other close
>>German city where there might be a Mormon Family History Center that will
>>have access to the films that you require.  In the US, some public
>>libraries
>>can also get them for you, but I don't know if that is worldwide.
>>
>>This seems to be a political problem more than anything else.  But getting
>>to Germany from your area is not so heard to do, a lot shorter than the
>>ride
>>of some US people to their closest Mormon Family History Center.  Even if
>>it
>>is in the same state of the US, it can be a 6-hours drive or longer each
>>way!
>>
>>Maureen, currently visiting near Mons, BE!

> _________________________________________________________________
> WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes – enter the Microsoft Office Live
> Sweepstakes http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/




Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS

Date: 2006/12/14 14:47:39
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Good input Werner. Every little bit helps on this. But keep in mind I believe LDS abides by the German privacy laws to the extent that any data so protected by those provisions will not be viewable at its LDS facilities throughout Western Europe. Church records - to the extent that they have been allowed to be filmed by the churches - don't fall under those guidelines to my knowledge.

The other key question would be, are there exceptions to this rule at any LDS centers in Niedersachsen, where things like census records might be able to be viewed?

Jb

From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:27:12 +0100 (MET)

What I know is, it is an instruction of the Roman Catholic church in Germany that the church >registers may not be made available in Europe. On the other hand, the Protestant church acts is differently. The lutheran church in Oldenburg district has never permitted to made film copy of the books. In different to the lutheran church of the Osnabrück district, I believe this films you can order by LDS in Europe and Germany. I could order the film of Vörden by the LDS center here in >Oldenburg.
You can check this by familysearch.org via place search.
Werner

_________________________________________________________________
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Re: [HN] Secretive

Date: 2006/12/14 15:00:42
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi Jb
There's one very good reason for the 'secretive' behaviour which you've
omitted to mention and that is propensity of governments to declare war
against another nation, especially if the perceived enemy was yours or your
(grand)parents homeland.    It may not have occurred to you that there is
another reason and that is when the inhabitants of a country believe that
their governments have allowed too many immigrants too much leeway to
practice customs from their old homeland.  History shows that gangs would
come into a neighbourhood smashing anything that was alien, be it religious
or of 'foreign' ethnicity.   At the height of these disturbances what parent
or grandparent is going to relate family history to a child born in the new
homeland when silence is the better option?   I was young when tuberculosis,
pleurisy and other damp related illnesses killed off children and adults for
that matter, thus when being visited by, or we visited, relatives  there
would be the perfunctionary kisses followed by "Go out to play" - outside
being safer than indoors.   I grew up knowing a smattering of my family's
history and I've made a surprising discovery over these last 5 years of
questioning all my close relatives - we all have different information to
contribute to our history even though we virtually lived in each other's
pockets.

Merry Christmas,
Rena
==
From: "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Thanks Per-Olav. Your comment made it worth the time to put together those
thoughts. Sometimes you wish for a little more discussion on these kinds of
things, being that you hear them quite often from folks doing family
research - German in particular - but realistically, most are here to track
down their ancestors' particulars and not wax poetic. [plus my directness
and/or opinions sometimes offend some folks, but what's new there?]

Still, I do understand those who ponder or question the seemingly
"secretive" natures so many of our predecessors displayed. It is a
regrettable but all too common trait amongst first, and even second,
generation German Americans, and naturally compels those even further
removed to question why. Why so much "hush hush" from our progenitors about
their past? Personally I'm not sure how much of this is a consequence of the
elders not speaking up and revealing such things, or the youngsters of the
following generation - and most descendents beyond - not having enough
interest to ask the questions when the getting was good. Particularly, as
their lives were racing past in full burn mode, when finding a mate, making
money and raising kids is first and foremost, and conversing with the "old
fogies" in the family on such matters was rarely deemed worthy of the time
or consideration. It cuts both ways, with faults lying on both sides. Sadly
it takes half of forever for us to reach adequate maturity, to figure out
what matters most, and by then it's either time to leave or throw in the
towel.

Also, when parents are given to certain behavioral responses (like silence)
on matters they deem off-limits (or of negligible importance), quite often
the children will inherit those sensitivities too, if even unintentionally,
as I think we all have seen. For that reason, this silence about the past
often found its way to the second generation also (beyond that generation's
desire to be as "American" as possible as quickly as possible, so as to fit
in better socially). By the time the third or fourth generation began asking
serious questions about their antecedents, the key players who might have
provided the answers earlier had invariably left the scene. There simply
wasn't anyone left, even among the contemporary elders, who could fill the
void adequately - leaving one and all "in the dark" as to the family's
roots.

Surely a small percentage of folks who left the Fatherland made their exits
with what could legitimately be called "secrets" in tow, things they
preferred covered up or forgotten for good, maybe a handful of illegitimate
ship-offs, or remittance-men in contractual indenture, etc. etc. One can
never truly be certain of such things in all cases. But the chances of those
things being the root of any given family's lack of ancestral knowledge are
still fairly thin in the end. I know for a fact our family had a rather
turbulent send-off from Hannover, the story of which all current lines of
descent - no matter how far removed from one another - have heard bits and
pieces. Could there be a few secrets yet to be discovered in this regard?
Certainly. But by far the most common German emigrant scenario is that of
those who saw little promise with their stations in life and the overall
status quo, be it for economic, political or religious reasons, and were
looking for a way out. I'm sure a tiny percentage were folks in trouble or
"on the run," still others must have been what we call 'free spirits,' and
no doubt an ample amount were made up of adventurers looking to strike it
rich in foreign places. But reasons for most to be "secretive" about their
past? Maybe it'd be better to ask, what kinds of secrets could most of them
have had?

Here's a kicker though. When my great grandfather's sister's husband [=
great granduncle of mine] died of old age, after having lived in California
for over 50 years, his surviving spouse - who had an otherwise pleasant and
long life (nearly 90 years) and successful marriage (60+ years) inexplicably
gathered up all of his things - his notebooks, his military papers, his old
officer's uniform (of which he was always proud), his meticulously kept
letters, pretty much their entire collection of surviving memorabilia and
connection to the past, put it in a large pile in the backyard, and set it
on fire. Even more disturbing, it was done amongst pleas from her daughter
and grandson (who, with misty eyes, relayed this story to me many years ago
when he himself was about to leave the scene) not to do so. But she was
adamant and would hear none of it. Was this an intentional cutting off of
the bridge to the past, perhaps to solidify forever the family's new
American identity, or the inexplicable act of a old woman apparently out of
her mind? Or indeed and perhaps, the obliteration of secrets from the past?
One can only wonder at this late point.

Jb

PS. This was the daughter of the family matriarch I mentioned earlier (the
matriarch who longed to return to Hildesheim). As you can see clearly, it
amounts to two very different faces from the same family coin.

From: "Per-Olav Hildebrand" <perolavhildebrand(a)t-online.de>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Secretive
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:58:05 +0100

Jb
well written, I enjoyed reading it (as usual).
Poh



Re: [HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (J b)

Date: 2006/12/14 15:16:44
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Armin bless your soul. All those names amount to additional stars you can proudly wear on your chest, like so many medallions of honor (much like those burly old Soviet Generals used to be adorned with - it was a wonder they didn't fall over). If you were Mormon, you'd be pulling each and every one of those Hattorfs in through the gates with you, you know that don't you? So be proud and smile, at least when you're headbanging.

I personally have no subscription to genealogy.com. If I can tap someone locally who does, we'll look that one up for you.

Now in a serious vein, while it is prudent to look into each and every name that appears to have a possible connection to your Hattorfs, be careful in overdoing it my friend. Why do I say this? Because for many years I have had access to a gamut of private databases here in the States that I use in my line of work. If anyone truly knew just how many folks carry surnames just like their own - even when it comes to relatively "rare" names - they would be truly astounded. Multiply that by all the generations that preceded our present one, all of which are now part of the massive record colossus that is slowly coming together. There is your little shop of horrors! lol

There are so many possibilities out there that it would be quite easy to waste time going down snaky, fruitless trails, especially if you do not hone in on what the familial evidence before you points most logically to. Therefore, my advice is to stay as "on track" as much as possible, even when "bridging the waters." In your case though, I have to admit you are doing the best you can to filter the pearls from the rough with all the Hattorfs you find, and in fact may be putting together the most comprehensive Hattorf collection anywhere. At this rate, you may have all the Yankee Hattorfs sorted and placed also!

This naturally does not apply to anyone looking to chronicle a given surname across geographical spheres, for the sake of statistically documenting a given surname. But if the goal is to document your own clan, as it will be for most, then better to work backwards (or in your case forward) with concrete facts in hand than reaching out and clutching for names that only appear similar. 9 out of 10 times those kinds of reaches will lead nowhere (disregard this if you are at a complete dead end, and have nothing but straws to clutch at). Perhaps the only area where this advice does not actually apply is in open-ended Internet searches, where the joker remains wild. There anything goes! Any wonder why Google has that button "Feeling lucky?"

Yes at the present time i am sitting hear headbanging
against my beautiful new screen. lol.

And be careful, those monitors break easy and aren't cheap. I know.

Grab a beer instead. A Jägermeister, that'll do the trick. ;)

Jb

From: AJHattorf(a)aol.com
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (J b)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 07:41:51 EST

Hi John

Nice to hear from you. Yes at the present time i am sitting hear headbanging
against my beautiful new screen. lol.

This is true each provider has some datas that others dont have .... and so
i hoped to find someone in the list who may take a look on Julia Hattorff at
genealogy.com. Very well knowing that in perhaps half a year or perhaps one
year those datas might be suddenly available at ancestry.com too. But who has
all the time of the world to sit here and wait when there are so many
questions  about those family secrets.

I have meanwhile a pretty collection of misspellings of my name, which is
surely not complete. Let me give you an example i have found Pauline Hattorff and her children in 1908 searching at Ellis Island. As i found them there they
were misspelled as Hattarf what is close to the real name.

Now that ancestry has taken the datas from Ellis too, i wondered why i cant
find Pauline in 1908. So i was looking exactly the date on which i found them
at  Ellis Island and what did i found at ancestry.com. She is misspelled as
Pauline  Hallanf what a beautiful new version.

Ok enjoy my little horror shop this is what i really found till today at
ancestry.com and under all those name real Hattorf(f) s are hidden:

Vn  hattore, Haltorf,  Hatorff,  Huttorf,  Hartthorff,  Hatton,  Hatterf,
Hattoff, Hatorf, Hatturff, Hatlorf, Holtorf, Fattore, Hattorp, Hattori,
Hattory,  Hattorss,  Haltfor,  Hattery,  Hallorf,  Hatoff,  Hattorfff,
Hatdorf,  Hallanf, Hattorg,  Hattdorf.

So  have a nice ancestry  hunt

Armin

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[HN] German Census Years

Date: 2006/12/14 16:30:02
From: Pat Huck <phck1(a)charter.net>

Could anyone tell me when the census would have been taken 1850 or before
Thanks, Pat Huck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:47 AM
Subject: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 37, Eintrag 38


Um e-Mails an die Liste Hannover-L zu schicken, nutzen Sie bitte die
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Wenn Sie antworten, bitte editieren Sie die Subject/Betreff auf einen
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Meldungen des Tages:

   1. Re: 19th century German censuses (Rena McCarthy)
   2. FW: Re:  19th century German censuses (Maureen Shelly)
   3. Re: 19th century German censuses (J b)
   4. Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (J b) (AJHattorf(a)aol.com)
   5. Re: 19th century German censuses PS (J b)
   6. Re: 19th century German censuses PS (Werner Honkomp)
   7. Re: 19th century German censuses PS (Werner Honkomp)
   8. Re: 19th century German censuses PS (J b)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:29:37 -0000
From: "Rena McCarthy" <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Message-ID: <000201c71f77$235b8c40$0e9587d9(a)renafrountroom>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Hi "Brouwers",

As there is supposed to be free flow of information between European
countries, maybe you should aim that question towards your area MEP (Member
of European Parliament).   In England we have come to know that the wheels
of the Belgian Parliament/beaurocracy turn very slowly - maybe they haven't
addressed the subject of "Heritage" yet.    I am surprised the Morman Centre
doesn't order the films from America for you or even the UK which would
sidetrack the importation of information from a banned source.

Rena
==
From: "Brouwers" <anmaristin(a)zeelandnet.nl>

JB,      I live in southern Netherlands right next to the Beliguim border so
sometimes I go to the Morman family center in Antwerpen to order films and
for Holland no problem, but for Germany I am not allowed to order any films,
the center in Vlissingen ( over the phone) says the same thing "no german
films are allowed to be ordered" from Beliguim or the Netherlands.  So what
now?  any suggestions would be greatly appreicated.




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:18:09 -0600
From: "Maureen Shelly" <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>
Subject: [HN] FW: Re:  19th century German censuses
To: Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
Message-ID: <BAY120-F11E7AA51CB00EF6287F290FED50(a)phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed


I suppose you could drive over to Aachen or Dusseldorf or some other close
German city where there might be a Mormon Family History Center that will
have access to the films that you require.  In the US, some public libraries
can also get them for you, but I don't know if that is worldwide.

This seems to be a political problem more than anything else.  But getting
to Germany from your area is not so heard to do, a lot shorter than the ride
of some US people to their closest Mormon Family History Center.  Even if it
is in the same state of the US, it can be a 6-hours drive or longer each
way!

Maureen, currently visiting near Mons, BE!


Researching:  Costello (Galway and Mayo), Cotter, Durcan/Durkin, Higgins,
Lynch, Raftree/Raftery (Galway), Shannon, Sullivan, Amacher, Baur, Bove',
Cremer, Ehlen, Fischer, Gansberg, Giefer, Hamacher, Hense/Henseler,
Hofmann/Hoeffeler, Jackler/Jackelen, Jaegers, Koch, Kratz, Krebs,
Marlo/Marlot/Morlo, Mueller/Meller, Mertes, Pick, Reetz,
Rheinges,Reichardt/Reichert, Rick, Schmieden, Seitz/Zeidt,  von
Alleman/Vollerman, von Meer, Weiskopf, Zens, Albright, Compton, Corselius,
Clemens/Clements, Daly (Galway), Early, Fallon (Galway), Greene (Waterford),
Callaghan, Fitzgerald, McGrath (Waterford), Moss, Mullenix/Mullinax,
Prichard, Reilly/O'Riley/Reiley, Shelly, Shook, Tye.




Hi "Brouwers",

As there is supposed to be free flow of information between European
countries, maybe you should aim that question towards your area MEP (Member
of European Parliament).   In England we have come to know that the wheels
of the Belgian Parliament/beaurocracy turn very slowly - maybe they haven't
addressed the subject of "Heritage" yet.    I am surprised the Morman Centre
doesn't order the films from America for you or even the UK which would
sidetrack the importation of information from a banned source.

Rena
==
From: "Brouwers" <anmaristin(a)zeelandnet.nl>

JB,      I live in southern Netherlands right next to the Beliguim border so
sometimes I go to the Morman family center in Antwerpen to order films and
for Holland no problem, but for Germany I am not allowed to order any films,
the center in Vlissingen ( over the phone) says the same thing "no german
films are allowed to be ordered" from Beliguim or the Netherlands.  So what
now?  any suggestions would be greatly appreicated.


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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 04:41:04 -0800
From: "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Message-ID: <BAY128-F27EE3F068F274020344D52B2D50(a)phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Hi Brouwers

German censuses are protected by German privacy laws, much of which is
covered to the best of my knowledge under the Bundesdatenschutzgesetz
(BDSG), or "Federal Data Protection Act." The BDSG specifically applies to
(1) German federal offices, (2) German state offices, and (3) private bodies
that process or use information for business, professional, or trade
purposes. Nominally these laws have been put in place to protect the right
to privacy for German citizens from being impaired through the handling of
their personal data. The government in Germany cannot release information it
collects by the bucketload from its citizens for 100 years.

This whole issue has become something of a growing problem for Germans,
namely in deciding exactly what should considered public as opposed to
private data, and nowhere is this more clearly visible than with data used
for genealogical purposes. As it is, certain groups in Germany are working
on extracting useable census data from historical records, but little of
this is available currently.

Most believe that German privacy laws lose their power at the international
frontiers of Germany. For example, I have seen a few films in the past
labeled "only available outside of Germany". However I am quite certain I
discovered, a good number of years ago now, that LDS abides by these privacy
laws to the extent that NO German filmed records will be made available to
Western Europeans, including Germans in LDS centers in Europe. The only way
someone from Western Europe would be able to access those films would be to
actually visit a LDS center outside Europe. Whether LDS, in areas like
England, abides by this agreement I do not know. To my knowledge this is an
LDS policy, and has nothing to do with policies or provisions put forth by
governing bodies like the European Union or European Commission (of which I
know dreadfully little).

German privacy laws do not cover church books I believe, so that is
obviously an area one could key in on. Also, if an individual can show a
legitimate reason, other than say frivolous data collection, that they
should be allowed access to data otherwise covered under these privacy laws
(as in a direct familial connection), the government has little choice but
to release it to them.

Perhaps a few on the German side of the list can add a little more (or
corrections as necessary). Or follow up on the smart suggestions given by
both Rena and Maureen.

Jb

PS> For the Dutch, that sucks. :-(

>From: "Brouwers" <anmaristin(a)zeelandnet.nl>
>To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>Subject: Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses
>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:45:58 +0100
>
>JB,      I live in southern Netherlands right next to the Beliguim border
>so
>sometimes I go to the Morman family center in Antwerpen to order films and
>for Holland no problem, but for Germany I am not allowed to order any
>films,
>the center in Vlissingen ( over the phone) says the same thing "no german
>films are allowed to be ordered" from Beliguim or the Netherlands.  So what
>now?  any suggestions would be greatly appreicated.

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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 07:41:51 EST
From: AJHattorf(a)aol.com
Subject: [HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (J b)
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Message-ID: <c7f.2489077.32b2a08f(a)aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"


Hi John
Nice to hear from you. Yes at the present time i am sitting hear
headbanging
against my beautiful new screen. lol.

This is true each provider has some datas that others dont have .... and so
i hoped to find someone in the list who may take a look on Julia Hattorff at
genealogy.com. Very well knowing that in perhaps half a year or perhaps one
year those datas might be suddenly available at ancestry.com too. But who
has
all the time of the world to sit here and wait when there are so many
questions  about those family secrets.

I have meanwhile a pretty collection of misspellings of my name, which is
surely not complete. Let me give you an example i have found Pauline
Hattorff
and her children in 1908 searching at Ellis Island. As i found them there
they
were misspelled as Hattarf what is close to the real name.

Now that ancestry has taken the datas from Ellis too, i wondered why i cant
find Pauline in 1908. So i was looking exactly the date on which i found
them
at  Ellis Island and what did i found at ancestry.com. She is misspelled as
Pauline  Hallanf what a beautiful new version.


Ok enjoy my little horror shop this is what i really found till today at
ancestry.com and under all those name real Hattorf(f) s are hidden:


Vn  hattore, Haltorf,  Hatorff,  Huttorf,  Hartthorff,  Hatton,  Hatterf,
Hattoff,  Hatorf,  Hatturff,  Hatlorf,  Holtorf,  Fattore,  Hattorp,
Hattori,
Hattory,  Hattorss,  Haltfor,  Hattery,  Hallorf,  Hatoff,  Hattorfff,
Hatdorf,  Hallanf, Hattorg,  Hattdorf.
So  have a nice ancestry  hunt
Armin




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 04:58:37 -0800
From: "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Message-ID: <BAY128-F164EF3961E9ECD3A864213B2D50(a)phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Oops little correction. We'll need to scratch Maureen's suggestion on this
one, as the Germans will not have access to these records either at their
local LDS centers (unless someone can cite differently). :: However ::
somewhere in the distant past I seem to recall someone mentioning that they
were able to view a whole array of films at their local LDS FHC in
Wilhelmshaven. So who knows! Our German friends will need to speak up on
this.

Jb

>From: "Maureen Shelly" <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>
>To: Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>Subject: [HN] FW: Re:  19th century German censuses
>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:18:09 -0600
>
>I suppose you could drive over to Aachen or Dusseldorf or some other close
>German city where there might be a Mormon Family History Center that will
>have access to the films that you require.  In the US, some public
>libraries
>can also get them for you, but I don't know if that is worldwide.
>
>This seems to be a political problem more than anything else.  But getting
>to Germany from your area is not so heard to do, a lot shorter than the
>ride
>of some US people to their closest Mormon Family History Center.  Even if
>it
>is in the same state of the US, it can be a 6-hours drive or longer each
>way!
>
>Maureen, currently visiting near Mons, BE!

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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:27:12 +0100 (MET)
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>
Subject: Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Message-ID: <4pUa1Ptfiv2EmADU6B92uRhhOZRSATLYPpMcxqa2vT(a)akmail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

What I know is, it is an instruction of the Roman Catholic church in Germany
that the church registers may not be made available in Europe. On the other
hand, the Protestant church acts is differently.
The lutheran church in Oldenburg district has never permitted to made film
copy of the books.
In different to the lutheran church of the Osnabrück district, I believe
this films you can order by LDS in Europe and Germany. I could order the
film of Vörden by the LDS center here in Oldenburg.
You can check this by familysearch.org via place search.
Werner


> Oops little correction. We'll need to scratch Maureen's suggestion on this
> one, as the Germans will not have access to these records either at their
> local LDS centers (unless someone can cite differently). :: However ::
> somewhere in the distant past I seem to recall someone mentioning that
> they
> were able to view a whole array of films at their local LDS FHC in
> Wilhelmshaven. So who knows! Our German friends will need to speak up on
> this.

> Jb

>>From: "Maureen Shelly" <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>
>>To: Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>Subject: [HN] FW: Re:  19th century German censuses
>>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:18:09 -0600
>>
>>I suppose you could drive over to Aachen or Dusseldorf or some other close
>>German city where there might be a Mormon Family History Center that will
>>have access to the films that you require.  In the US, some public
>>libraries
>>can also get them for you, but I don't know if that is worldwide.
>>
>>This seems to be a political problem more than anything else.  But getting
>>to Germany from your area is not so heard to do, a lot shorter than the
>>ride
>>of some US people to their closest Mormon Family History Center.  Even if
>>it
>>is in the same state of the US, it can be a 6-hours drive or longer each
>>way!
>>
>>Maureen, currently visiting near Mons, BE!

> _________________________________________________________________
> WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes - enter the Microsoft Office Live
> Sweepstakes http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/





------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:27:12 +0100 (MET)
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>
Subject: Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Message-ID: <xxN9mi7jq6lZkCVfZROzaNKiHNfaTXE1VkjctTwx5kS(a)akmail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

What I know is,

> Oops little correction. We'll need to scratch Maureen's suggestion on this
> one, as the Germans will not have access to these records either at their
> local LDS centers (unless someone can cite differently). :: However ::
> somewhere in the distant past I seem to recall someone mentioning that
> they
> were able to view a whole array of films at their local LDS FHC in
> Wilhelmshaven. So who knows! Our German friends will need to speak up on
> this.

> Jb

>>From: "Maureen Shelly" <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>
>>To: Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>Subject: [HN] FW: Re:  19th century German censuses
>>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:18:09 -0600
>>
>>I suppose you could drive over to Aachen or Dusseldorf or some other close
>>German city where there might be a Mormon Family History Center that will
>>have access to the films that you require.  In the US, some public
>>libraries
>>can also get them for you, but I don't know if that is worldwide.
>>
>>This seems to be a political problem more than anything else.  But getting
>>to Germany from your area is not so heard to do, a lot shorter than the
>>ride
>>of some US people to their closest Mormon Family History Center.  Even if
>>it
>>is in the same state of the US, it can be a 6-hours drive or longer each
>>way!
>>
>>Maureen, currently visiting near Mons, BE!

> _________________________________________________________________
> WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes - enter the Microsoft Office Live
> Sweepstakes http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/





------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 05:47:27 -0800
From: "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Message-ID: <BAY128-F29261F1C757657DBBE9E29B2D50(a)phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Good input Werner. Every little bit helps on this. But keep in mind I
believe LDS abides by the German privacy laws to the extent that any data so
protected by those provisions will not be viewable at its LDS facilities
throughout Western Europe. Church records - to the extent that they have
been allowed to be filmed by the churches - don't fall under those
guidelines to my knowledge.

The other key question would be, are there exceptions to this rule at any
LDS centers in Niedersachsen, where things like census records might be able
to be viewed?

Jb

>From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>
>To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
>Subject: Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS
>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:27:12 +0100 (MET)
>
>What I know is, it is an instruction of the Roman Catholic church in
>Germany that the church >registers may not be made available in Europe. On
>the other hand, the Protestant church acts is differently.
>The lutheran church in Oldenburg district has never permitted to made film
>copy of the books.
>In different to the lutheran church of the Osnabrück district, I believe
>this films you can order by LDS in Europe and Germany. I could order the
>film of Vörden by the LDS center here in >Oldenburg.
>You can check this by familysearch.org via place search.
>Werner

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Ende Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 37, Eintrag 38
********************************************************


Re: [HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (Julia Hattorff) (Barbara)

Date: 2006/12/14 16:38:44
From: LadyBonita (USA) <ladybonita(a)usa.com>

I sent you directly all the matches I found when I do a search for HAT*F ...
to take in consideration of all the misspellings.  You might also check
MAT*F as sometimes transcribers transcribed the H as an M for illegible
surname.  

If someone else is interested, email me directly at ladybonita(a)usa.com and I
will send to you off-list as it is quite large.

Bonita



Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses

Date: 2006/12/14 16:55:16
From: LadyBonita (USA) <ladybonita(a)usa.com>

Is there really anything on the census records that are not available on
birth records (if I knew where to find them)?  Does 'direct' mean that I
could not get anything on the siblings of my direct ancestor?

I know the census records in USA help with 1) family connections, 2)
approximately birth year, and 3) birth and potential death locations.  Not
much that is not available on most birth, death and marriage records -- IF
you know where and when to look.  To me, census is just a 'clue' to where to
look for really proof records.  They are usually not available until the
person recorded on the census is assumed deceased.

It sure would be nice to be able to determine 1) what is on each census and
2) under what circumstances I can actually get some information from them --
even if 'filtered' by an intermediately.

Bonita Hillmer

Surname: HILLMER HILMER NEUMAN KROEGER VOGHT MEYER etc in now Niedersachsen
/ Luneburg, Kreis Uelzen region and Hamburg Area


Re: [HN] Secretive

Date: 2006/12/14 17:08:55
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Hi Jb
There's one very good reason for the 'secretive' behaviour which you've
omitted to mention and that is propensity of governments to declare war
against another nation, especially if the perceived enemy was yours or your
(grand)parents homeland.

Hello Rena

Valid point that I should have included indeed. Only keep in mind that that great granduncle of mine, the one I mentioned earlier, was quite proud of the military service he provided the Fatherland as a German officer. He even brought his old uniform with him to the states from his days in the Bismarck wars. Having lived through WWI, by then a US citizen of more than 50 years, he had no qualms, even to his dying days, of spinning up German military marches on one of those early Victrolas for his young grandson, so that they could march around their parlor being two little Kriegmeisters (that is, until his wife appeared and chased them out of the house).

And then there's my great grandfather, who had just become a young doctor in Hannover when certain events forced him out of Germany and into California. He immediately took up his petition papers for American citizenship upon his arrival, but also returned to Germany only 3 years later to serve as a surgeon in the Franco-Prussian war. Makes for an off the wall scenario to say the least, but I personally (and thoroughly) documented this some 25 years or so ago. So while I'll concede many must have felt guilt (or even a bit of shame) for their prior alignment to Germany, Prussia or the Reich, especially when their new and adopted country was taking arms up against them, others clearly did not (at least appreciably so). But what you mention remains a valid point, and certainly applied to many, perhaps even most.

Now to also play a bit of devil's advocate for a moment, I called the war in Iraq a crock and farce the moment it went down early in 2003, when we went from chasing the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan (which this country fully supported) to running a holy crusade to de-claw Israel's enemies in the region. The stand I took was against popular sentiment at the time, but look where we are today, even if the federal government tells me otherwise. I suspect many Americans of German ancestry didn't buy into their cousins back in Deutschland being depicted by the press and government as "Huns" in WWI. I don't even buy into much of the same when it comes to WWII, and I've specialized in that study. But that's my own personal assessment, it concerns me little who sees it that way or not, to include what the media spouts off. But whenever it comes to "your government says ..." I IMMEDIATELY am on my guard. I've learned better, now that I'm all grown up and have learned to think for myself.

It may not have occurred to you that there is
another reason and that is when the inhabitants of a country believe that
their governments have allowed too many immigrants too much leeway to
practice customs from their old homeland. History shows that gangs would
come into a neighbourhood smashing anything that was alien, be it religious
or of 'foreign' ethnicity. At the height of these disturbances what parent
or grandparent is going to relate family history to a child born in the new
homeland when silence is the better option?

Well perhaps, only when were the Germans in America (or England for that matter) ever allowed "too much leeway"? The only vandalism or attacks I can recall were localized ones (and random and sporadic at best), normally small disturbances during times of war against Germany. I think any reservations felt by the elders at the time came less from the potential of marauding gangs and more from government sponsored propaganda. After all, it's always easier to go after your "enemies" once you paint them as devils. And by extension, the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree.

Also not to crash the party on this last point but have you seen how many illegal Mexicans now inhabit the US? Some areas in the southwest now resemble Mexico as much as they do the USA. Lots and lots of leeway has been given, with an incredible amount of tolerance from both the government (by design) and American citizenry (by default). So to follow your logic, where are all these American gangs that should be entering those neighborhoods smashing everything that is alien? Perhaps this would occur in Mexico if so many Americans were to invade there en masse, but obviously not in the good ol' USA - not anymore anyways. Remember that British rock song "Comfortably numb" I posted sometime earlier? It applies in so many ways.

But ok your point is taken. I'll give you both of those. Always like hearing your take on things. But we won the war. Against Howe and Burgoyne. ;)

Merry Xmas in England. I'll be bathing in the SoCal sun (bah).

Jb

Merry Christmas,
Rena
==

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Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses

Date: 2006/12/14 18:27:25
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Bonita <ladybonita(a)usa.com> wrote:

Is there really anything on the census records that are not available on
birth records (if I knew where to find them)?

Bonita you might want to look over the beginning of this thread from a day or two back, in case you haven't seen it yet. My post then was based on an older series of posts from a few years back that gives a pretty good overview of what you can realistically expect. In a nutshell, depending on the amount of LUCK you have (mostly based on the year and area in question), Niedersachsen censuses could resemble anything from our 1800 US censuses (very basic, with head of household listed only) to those found in say the 1850 or 1860 US censuses, with complete families listed, to include names + ages of each member, and their relationships. The caveat: it is a highly "hit and miss" proposition when it comes to overall availability of theses records.

Does 'direct' mean that I could not get anything on the siblings of my direct ancestor?

You have a fighting chance there, as long as you can provide proper documentation (often a family sketch will do). But I'm not sure this is the approach you should take. See more below.

I know the census records in USA help with 1) family connections, 2)
approximately birth year, and 3) birth and potential death locations. Not
much that is not available on most birth, death and marriage records -- IF
you know where and when to look. To me, census is just a 'clue' to where to
look for really proof records. They are usually not available until the
person recorded on the census is assumed deceased.

Well put it this way, while the amount of information rendered is admittedly limited (just like our censuses of that period), can you imagine a nicer record to show those in the family who may be interested than a copy of your early family back in Germany, to include street address and the entire family listed by individual names? All that in wonderful German penmanship. Now keep in mind, the Gods will have to be with you on this, as that's a "best case" scenario. Many - even most - will not be so lucky.

It sure would be nice to be able to determine 1) what is on each census and
2) under what circumstances I can actually get some information from them --
even if 'filtered' by an intermediately.

Your best bet being in the States is to use an LDS FHC facility, and not to bother looking for these records from the German side. Better yet, read that post I alluded to earlier. It's all in there.

-----------

Pat Huck <phck1(a)charter.net> wrote:

Could anyone tell me when the census would have been taken 1850 or before

The indexes for almost all of the German censuses of Lower Saxony are to be found at LDS. Look either online at their website or head over to your local FHC to go through them. The censuses generally get less informational the earlier back you push (assuming you can find ones that apply to the area your family lived). They really start to peak around 1850 period (and beyond), so when pushing back much earlier, expect returns of diminishing value.

Good luck. It's time for me to get back in my cave.

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Re: [HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com

Date: 2006/12/14 18:37:21
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Armin I forgot to ask you: do you think all the Hattorfs <var> you have found in the US are connected (or connectable) to your Hattorf line there in Germany? I know you have made quite a few connections, in most commendable fashion, but do you suspect they are all related, or only a portion?

Just curious, since you have done remarkably well in what you've accomplished so far.

Cavebound again. Jb

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[HN] [FamNord] GEHRKE

Date: 2006/12/14 18:40:12
From: Klaus Kunze <KJ.Kunze(a)t-online.de>






Hallo Liste,

wer hat den Namen GEHRKE aus Alt-Wallmoden-Goslar in seiner Ahnenliste ???

GEHRKE / GERICKE    Heinrich Conrad                * 11.04.1784  Alt-Wallmoden
                                                   + wann und wo  ???

                             oo  wann und wo ???


BÜLTEMANN Johanna Marie Sophie Eleonore           * 21.04.1788  in Haverlah
                                                   + wann und wo ??


Ferner suche ich die Eltern von oben genannten Personen.


Mit freundlichem Gruß
Klaus
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[HN] [FamNord] KUNZE

Date: 2006/12/14 18:44:55
From: Klaus Kunze <KJ.Kunze(a)t-online.de>






Hallo Liste,

wer forscht im Weserbergland ??? im Umkreis von Brökeln ( Bodenwerder )
nach der Familie KUNZE. Der letzte Eintrag im Kirchbuch der ev.Kirchengemeinde
Brökeln ist von 1799.

                     KUNZE Friedrich Anton Heinrich   *  07.03.1799  Brökeln
                                                      +  wann und wo  ???

                     oo wann und wo ???

Ehefrau. ???

Danach habe ich keine gesicherten Daten aus Brökeln mehr. Sollte jemand in den
ev.luth. + kath.Kirchengemeinden forschen, bitte ich, wenn es möglich ist,
auf den Namen KUNZE zu achten. Vielleicht habe ich ja etwas Glück.

Mit freundlichem Gruß
Klaus
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[HN] VERWOHL

Date: 2006/12/14 18:46:20
From: Klaus Kunze <KJ.Kunze(a)t-online.de>






Hallo Liste,

wer forscht im Weserbergland im Umkreis von Holenberg / Golmbach  ( Holzminden )
nach der Familie VERWOHL. Die letzten Eintragungen im Kirchbuch der
ev.Klosterkirche Amelungsborn.

                        VERWOHL Heinrich Friedrich     *  wann und wo ??
                                                       +  wann und wo

                        oo 11.11.1800 in der Klosterkirche Amelungsborn


                        RITTERBUSCH Justine Wilhelmine Johanne  *  wann und wo ??
                                                                +  wann und wo

Danach verliert sich die Spur. Sollte im Umkreis von Holenberg - Golmbach
usw. forschen, bitte ich, wenns möglich ist, auf den Namen Verwohl ( es
gibt auch andere Schreibweisen ) sowie auf Ritterbusch zu achten. Vielleicht 
habe ich ja Glück.

Mit freundlichem Gruß aus dem Harzvorland
Klaus

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Re: [HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (Julia Hattorff)

Date: 2006/12/14 19:13:01
From: Sandra Powell <sandrapowell(a)cableone.net>

Hello Armin,

I checked Genealogy.com for Julia Hattorff and found this:

1 match in Genealogy Library
1 match in Historical Records (Historical Records is part of Genealogy Library)

"Julia Hattorff found in:
Louisiana 1718 - 1925 Marriage Index
Spouse:  Geo. W. Combs
Marriage Date:  Feb. 08, 1869
Location:  Orleans"

I hope this is helpful.

Sandra Powell


AJHattorf(a)aol.com wrote on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:09 AM
But there is still something at genealogy.com that would interest me. There
i found searching Hattorff a certain Julia Hattorff and they say they have 2
results in genealogical papers and historical papers. But just to see that two
results it makes no sense to pay a membership for 199 US-Dollar.

If there is someone in our group who has access to genealogy.com. It would
be very intersting, cause there have been two Julias in NY .... mother and
daughter and i could never find the mother after the 1850 census again.



Re: [HN] Secretive

Date: 2006/12/14 19:36:17
From: JRodenburg <JRodenburg(a)aol.com>

In a message dated 12/14/2006 12:47:05 AM Central Standard Time, 
johnbrene(a)hotmail.com writes:


> fficer's uniform (of which he was always proud), his meticulously kept 
> letters, pretty much their entire collection of surviving memorabilia and 
> connection to the past, put it in a large pile in the backyard, and set it 
> on fire. Even more disturbing, it was done amongst pleas from her daughter 
> and grandson (who, with misty eyes, relayed this story to me many years ago 
> when he himself was about to leave the scene) not to do so. But she was 
> 

My mother's grandmother did exactly the same thing in Oklahoma during the 
1930's or 1940's. Although no one understood it at the time, my mother now 
believe that her grandmother was suffering from Alzheimer's. During that time period 
you were only old or senile, or both. John

Viele Grüße aus Illinois
John Rodenburg
Rodenburg (Tarmstedt, Hannover)
Brunkhorst (Hannover)
Werner (Langen, Hesse-Darmstadt),
Steinke (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)
Krause (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)
Schröder (Warsow, Mecklenburg-Schwerin), 
Meyer (Wechold, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)
Zum Mallen (Schierholz, Kreis Hoya, Hannover) 
Röhrdanz (Mecklenburg-Schwerin)

Re: [HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (J b)

Date: 2006/12/14 19:40:43
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

 
In einer eMail vom 14.12.2006 18:56:13 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt  
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

Armin I  forgot to ask you: do you think all the Hattorfs <var> you have  
found in the US are connected (or connectable) to your Hattorf line there  in 
Germany? I know you have made quite a few connections, in most  commendable 
fashion, but do you suspect they are all related, or only a  portion?



Hi John
 
To be honest not only the US Hattorf or Hattorff how the old name was  
written were related i could not find a single Hattorff in Germany who is not  
somewhere related to another one.
There is only ONE big Hattorf family tree beginning about 1241 with gaps  
then in 1398 he is beginning to be sure. And you can trace back all Hattorfs you  
ever find back to that one family living in Duderstadt and Osterode in the 
13th  century.
 
So all Hattorffs in the USA are related i told you before even if they  
sometimes think the do not want to be related to someone who is living in NY  when 
they are from VA. lol North vs. South the old story. 
 
Ok i will try to tell the story of the Hattorf familys in the USA in a  short 
version.
 
To be more precise the first Hattorff coming to the USA was in my opinion  
Frederick A. Hattorff he was the son of a sergeant major in the KGL Johann  
August Hattorff we have been talking about him several times. Friedrich August  
was coming around 1843 or 1842 he was living in Memsen Hoya Hannover. 
 
In New York he had a family with 5 perhaps more children. One son (George  
Edward Hattorf) was staying in NY the other one (Frederick Joseph) was going to  
New Haven, New Haven CT.
 
He himself was leaving NY between 1850 and 1860. He married again 1862 in  
Richmond Virginia. And he had again 6 children. Maybe there were 3 more but  
they have been dying perhaps as kids. Thats now the Virginian Line.
 
And the ancestor Johann August was from that old Hattorf family of Osterode  
in Germany, but i couldnt find the father of J A.. so i am not sure how close 
he  is related to me.
 
The next Hattorf coming around was Johann Friedrich Hattorf from Achim  
married with Pauline Louise Raesike ??? ( so they say at the LDS church) he was  
coming 1872 from the Bremen Achim line. Also a descendend of Johann Friedrich  
Hattorff my personal ancestor. He was living in New York. He had 3 daughters  
Pauline, Elsa and May.
 
Johann Hermann Hattorff came about 1885 he was from the Bremen/Achim line  
too, married with Katie Schwindt too. He was a decendend of my personal  
ancestor Johann Friedrich Hattorff, so his greatgreatgreatgrandson is my cousin.  He 
was living in New York.
 
Then there was a family coming to Chicago you find the names at ancestry.  
All descendends of a certain Theodor Hattorff from Labuhn Pommerania, In my  
opinion Theodor must be related to the Bremen tree, but there are no more  
churchbooks in the eastern part of Germany, so we have to hope that we find  someday 
someone who has informations.
 
And finally a family who came late in the 1950 or 60ies to California  
descendens of a certain Oscar Friedrich Constantin Hattorff he was living in  
Allenstein Easternprussia same problem with his birthpapers. After the war the  
Russians and polish people have burned a lot of the old churchbooks in the  
streets and the rest you may find today on a black market in Poland. If you are  
very lucky. His descendends have been living in Hamburg after the war before  
going to the states. He must be somewere related to Theo and the Bremen tree  too.
 
So no strange Hattorff found till today, ok for the last two i have to find  
a proof, but i hope to get it soon.
 
So most of the Hattorfs are coming from the Bremen line. 
 
Oh yes i forgot a certain Johann Friedrich Hattorff born 1797 in  Bremen he 
made two trips to America one in 1845 and one in 1856. the second  time as 
Friedrich Hattorf but born the same year 1797 and the same profession  and coming 
twice from Bremen. he was surely only a visitor and whom could he  visit if 
not F.A. in New York, he was the only one at this time living in the  USA. So 
even this one must be a kind of uncle. I still have to find the proof.  or would 
you make in those days a voyage on such a ship, that was surely not  really 
funny.
 
Ok i hope i could answer your question if not ask me
 
Armin 
 
 
 
 

Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS

Date: 2006/12/14 20:38:11
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi:

I am not sure I understand all the comments about privacy on the 19th century censuses. I have a complete and very detailed copy of the 1852 census published for my GF's hometown in the KOH.

Gale


On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 05:47:27 -0800
 "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
Good input Werner. Every little bit helps on this. But keep in mind I believe LDS abides by the German privacy laws to the extent that any data so protected by those provisions will not be viewable at its LDS facilities throughout Western Europe. Church records - to the extent that they have been allowed to be filmed by the churches - don't fall under those guidelines to my knowledge.

The other key question would be, are there exceptions to this rule at any LDS centers in Niedersachsen, where things like census records might be able to be viewed?

Jb

From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:27:12 +0100 (MET)

What I know is, it is an instruction of the Roman Catholic church in Germany that the church >registers may not be made available in Europe. On the other hand, the Protestant church acts is differently. The lutheran church in Oldenburg district has never permitted to made film copy of the books. In different to the lutheran church of the Osnabrück district, I believe this films you can order by LDS in Europe and Germany. I could order the film of Vörden by the LDS center here in >Oldenburg.
You can check this by familysearch.org via place search.
Werner

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[HN] Urkundenbuch Mariengarten

Date: 2006/12/14 20:38:51
From: Bernd H. Siebert <berndhsiebert(a)t-online.de>

Liebe Liste!

Ich verkaufe:

Urkundenbuch des Klosters Mariengarten, Hildesheim 1987, Leinen, neu,

Preis 20 € und 3,90 € Porto.

Bitte an meine persönliche e-mail-Adresse mailen, nicht über die Liste!

Gruß
Bernd (Siebert)
Ortsheimatpfleger Bernshausen
Oberdorfstr. 4
37136 Seeburg

[HN] WALLHERMFECHTEL

Date: 2006/12/14 21:26:17
From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>

Hallo

Please, where would the family Wallhermfechtel probably have originated?

I find none in the German phone book.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks





Re: [HN] WALLHERMFECHTEL

Date: 2006/12/14 21:58:43
From: Klaus Riecken <klaus(a)riecken-online.de>

Hallo,

did you try www.google.de
http://www.familysearch.org/

Regards
Klaus riecken
www.Riecken-online.de

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Doerr" <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:26 PM
Subject: [HN] WALLHERMFECHTEL


Hallo

Please, where would the family Wallhermfechtel probably have originated?

I find none in the German phone book.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks




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Re: [HN] Secretive

Date: 2006/12/14 22:12:13
From: Maureen Shelly <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>


In our family it is was said this "clearing out" was done because
people could not bare to go one with their lives surrounded by
such reminders of the past and the loved ones who had died.

My father was four when his Irish-born mother died. He somehow
got hold of a small lavaliere she had worn on a chain around her neck.
He never told about it or showed it to anyone.  He kept it wrapped
and hidden.  When he got a bank safe deposit box he stored it
there in secret, in silence, for many decades.

My grandfather kept one small photo, but showed that to no one,
especially not his children whom he thought would be harmed by
the remembrance.  No one knew he had it.  When my grand-
father died, my aunt found the photo and showed us, once ...
and when it passed to her youngest daughter she made photo-
copies for us all.

When my dad retired and closed the safety deposit box near his
office in the city and brought all the contents to the family box in
our suburban town, he showed my mother the tiny gold  lavaliere,
and told her the story of his "theft" as a 4-year-old.

You must know that I wear it nearly every day, don't you?

Maureen





In a message dated 12/14/2006 12:47:05 AM Central Standard Time,
johnbrene(a)hotmail.com writes:


> fficer's uniform (of which he was always proud), his meticulously kept
> letters, pretty much their entire collection of surviving memorabilia and
> connection to the past, put it in a large pile in the backyard, and set it > on fire. Even more disturbing, it was done amongst pleas from her daughter > and grandson (who, with misty eyes, relayed this story to me many years ago
> when he himself was about to leave the scene) not to do so. But she was
>

My mother's grandmother did exactly the same thing in Oklahoma during the
1930's or 1940's. Although no one understood it at the time, my mother now
believe that her grandmother was suffering from Alzheimer's. During that time period
you were only old or senile, or both. John

Viele Grüße aus Illinois
John Rodenburg
Rodenburg (Tarmstedt, Hannover)
Brunkhorst (Hannover)
Werner (Langen, Hesse-Darmstadt),
Steinke (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)
Krause (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)
Schröder (Warsow, Mecklenburg-Schwerin),
Meyer (Wechold, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)
Zum Mallen (Schierholz, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)
Röhrdanz (Mecklenburg-Schwerin)
______________________________________________

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[HN] FW: Re: Secretive

Date: 2006/12/14 22:13:36
From: Maureen Shelly <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>





Researching: Costello (Galway and Mayo), Cotter, Durcan/Durkin, Higgins, Lynch, Raftree/Raftery (Galway), Shannon, Sullivan, Amacher, Baur, Bove, Cremer, Ehlen, Fischer, Gansberg, Giefer, Hamacher, Hense/Henseler, Hofmann/Hoeffeler, Jackler/Jackelen, Jaegers, Koch, Kratz, Krebs, Marlo/Marlot/Morlo, Mueller/Meller, Mertes, Pick, Reetz, Rheinges,Reichardt/Reichert, Rick, Schmieden, Seitz/Zeidt, vonAlleman/Vollerman, vonMeer, Weiskopf, Zens, Albright, Compton, Corselius, Clemens/Clements, Daly (Galway), Early, Fallon (Galway), Greene (Waterford), Callaghan, Fitzgerald, McGrath (Waterford), Moss, Mullenix/Mullinax, Prichard, Reilly/O'Riley/Reiley, Shelly, Shook, Tye.





In our family it is was said this "clearing out" was done because
people could not bare to go one with their lives surrounded by
such reminders of the past and the loved ones who had died.

My father was four when his Irish-born mother died. He somehow
got hold of a small lavaliere she had worn on a chain around her neck.
He never told about it or showed it to anyone.  He kept it wrapped
and hidden.  When he got a bank safe deposit box he stored it
there in secret, in silence, for many decades.

My grandfather kept one small photo, but showed that to no one,
especially not his children whom he thought would be harmed by
the remembrance.  No one knew he had it.  When my grand-
father died, my aunt found the photo and showed us, once ...
and when it passed to her youngest daughter she made photo-
copies for us all.

When my dad retired and closed the safety deposit box near his
office in the city and brought all the contents to the family box in
our suburban town, he showed my mother the tiny gold  lavaliere,
and told her the story of his "theft" as a 4-year-old.

You must know that I wear it nearly every day, don't you?

Maureen





In a message dated 12/14/2006 12:47:05 AM Central Standard Time,
johnbrene(a)hotmail.com writes:


> fficer's uniform (of which he was always proud), his meticulously kept
> letters, pretty much their entire collection of surviving memorabilia and
> connection to the past, put it in a large pile in the backyard, and set it > on fire. Even more disturbing, it was done amongst pleas from her daughter > and grandson (who, with misty eyes, relayed this story to me many years ago
> when he himself was about to leave the scene) not to do so. But she was
>

My mother's grandmother did exactly the same thing in Oklahoma during the
1930's or 1940's. Although no one understood it at the time, my mother now
believe that her grandmother was suffering from Alzheimer's. During that time period
you were only old or senile, or both. John

Viele Grüße aus Illinois
John Rodenburg
Rodenburg (Tarmstedt, Hannover)
Brunkhorst (Hannover)
Werner (Langen, Hesse-Darmstadt),
Steinke (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)
Krause (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)
Schröder (Warsow, Mecklenburg-Schwerin),
Meyer (Wechold, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)
Zum Mallen (Schierholz, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)
Röhrdanz (Mecklenburg-Schwerin)
______________________________________________

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Re: [HN] Klinker/Heide/Truelsen or Traulsen

Date: 2006/12/14 23:13:07
From: ksturges <ksturges(a)tiscali.co.uk>

Dear Connie,

If you go to http://gedbas.genealogy.net and type Klinker in "Nachname" and
hit "Suche" (Search), it throws up scores of Klinkers in Germany from 1600
onwards.

I too am searching for Klinker ancestors, but mine were from (Hoya) Hannover,
whereas yours are from Schwabstedt which is in Schleswig-Holstein near the
border with Denmark. During my own research I have discovered two main clusters
of Klinkers, one in Schleswig-Holstein and another around Sevelten, which
is in Lower Saxony, south west of Bremen.

I recently stumbled on two German websites whilst googling (but I didn't
make a note of the website address). One was a site showing the modern day
distribution throughout Germany of various surnames. One of these was Klinker.
The greatest current concentration of Klinkers - in terms of percentage of
local population - is in Schleswig-Holstein. The next is in the area around
Sevelten, south west of Bremen. Once you go further south or east from Lower
Saxony the name becomes much less common. About 88 per cent of all Klinkers
in modern-day Germany (apparently only about 1,100 of them) are in the north
east of the country.

The other website gave definitions of German surnames.  It seems a Klinker
was someone who lived near a turnpike or barrier by the border.  From the
above, my guess is that the Klinkers originated around Flensburg, the main
town on the German/Danish border and elements of the family gradually migrated
southwards. There is also a sprinkling of Klinkers in Denmark. (The weakness
in this is that Schleswig-Holstein has changed hands between Germany and
Denmark throughout history, so there might not always have been a border
there). The earliest Klinker I have come across was in Flensburg in 1600.
The earliest Klinker I have come across in Sevelten was in 1645.

My great-great grandfather was Diedrich (or Dietrich) Klinker, who came to
England in the 1850s. He was born in Hoya, (about halfway between the cities
of Hannover and Bremen) in 1834. I know from church records in England that
his father was also called Diedrich (Dietrich) and was born Hannover area
around 1800. Although I've found information on scores of Klinkers, I can
find nothing on my own ancestors in Germany. I believe that the churchbooks
Amt Martfeld from 1852 show a Dietrich Heinrich Klincker with a small farm
in Hustedt (very close to Hoya) and a Dietrich H. Klincker as a tenant in
Kleinenborstel, (also close to Hoya). I do not know what information is given
about them, though, and expect I may have to go to Hannover to find out.

I trust the above is of interest.

Regards,

Keith Sturges
Colchester, England





>-- Original Message --
>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:28:18 +0100
>From: Juergen Drees <J.Drees(a)gmx.net>
>To: Connie Miller <cmiller8139(a)cableone.net>
>Cc: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
>Subject: [HN] Klinker/Heide/Truelsen or Traulsen
>Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>
>
>[Forwarded message on behalf of "Connie Miller"
><cmiller8139(a)cableone.net>]
>I am searching for these surnames in the Schwabstedt area.  Anyone
>searching or with information regarding these families, please contact
>me.
>
>Ich suche nach diesen Familiennameen im Schwabstedt Bereich. Suchendes
>jedermann oder mit den Informationen betreffend sind diese Familien,
>treten  mit mir bitte in Verbindung.
>
>Idaho lady.
>
>
>______________________________________________
>
>Hannover-L mailing list
>Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l




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[HN] Klinker/Hoepfner/kaufner/Hauptmann

Date: 2006/12/14 23:33:16
From: ksturges <ksturges(a)tiscali.co.uk>

Dear Listers,

I am still searching for info on the following:-

Diedrich (Dietrich) Klinker born Hannover about 1800
Diedrich (Dietrich) Klinker born Hoya, near Hannover, 1834
Catharina Sarah Hoepfner born Gieboldehausen, near Hannover, 1838
Christoph Hoepfner, born Hannover area around 1800
Elisabeth Kaufner, born Hannover area around 1800
Elisabeth Hauptmann born Hannover area around 1800.

I gather the churchbooks Amt Martfeld for 1852 show a Dietrich Heinrich Klincker
(slightly different spelling) owning a small farm in Hustedt, near Hoya,
and a Dietrich H. Klincker as a tenant in Kleinenborstel, also near Hoya.
If anyone has access to these books and can let me know what info is given
on these two gentlemen I would be extremely grateful.

I have seen reference to scores of other Klinkers but cannot, so far, link
them to my particular ancestors.

Bjoern Sassenberg kindly sent me some information on Hoepfners in Wunstorf
who may or may not be related to Christoph and Catharina - I haven't yet
found a link.

As for Kaufners and Hauptmanns, I have tried just about every site there
is on German genealogy and the names just don't seem to feature at all.

Hopefully there is someone out there who can help me make a breakthrough.

Regards,

Keith Sturges
Colchester, England


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Re: [HN] WALLHERMFECHTEL

Date: 2006/12/15 00:18:41
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"Bob Doerr" <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu> schrieb:
> Hallo
> 
> Please, where would the family Wallhermfechtel probably have originated?
> 
> I find none in the German phone book.
> 
> Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks
> 
> 
Very unusual name indeed. I would favourize the following word history:

the name of a Walter Hermann Fechtel was contracted to Walthermfechtel because of abbrevation of Walter = Walt and Hermann = Herm. Otherwise the name sounds like modern woman names connecting two family names or as one single family name to German ears a bit complicated structured like Indian names in the literature, for example as "The-bear-that-looks-around-the corner". In the end nothing is impossible and you will be lucky to find that name back in Germany. Meanwhile I would try to get a connection to a FECHTEL family, because this name is an existing name with about 100 different families and entries in the telephone directory.If the first two syllable should be also a family name of its own, there are different possibilities in WALDHEIM, WALDHERR, WALLHERR etc.

Good luck

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

Re: [HN] Secretive

Date: 2006/12/15 01:11:35
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

John <JRodenburg(a)aol.com> wrote:

My mother's grandmother did exactly the same thing in Oklahoma during the
1930's or 1940's. Although no one understood it at the time, my mother now
believe that her grandmother was suffering from Alzheimer's. During that time period
you were only old or senile, or both. John

Most interesting to hear. Hard to believe another incident so similar presents itself. That's one of the beauties of lists like these. You get a glimpse into so many things related, even when separated by great distances.
From the expanse of North America clear over to Germany, Holland, England,
Australia, etc., it amounts to a 24-hour open conference call. Tim Berners-Lee, that guy should be up for sainthood soon. ;)

As for your last comment, the times have surely changed. I can confidently say that while I may not be all that old yet (it's all relative, isn't it?), I am slowly entering into that lovely realm called senility. For example I'll head to the kitchen, stand there in front of the refrigerator, and wonder what I came for. Then I'll spot a beer, grab it, and say to myself "Must be this."

Beyond these frequent mental lapses, I also find myself asking (in tones of justification): how can anyone truly claim to be German if they have never felt the passion behind a little liquid love? ;)

Jb

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Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS

Date: 2006/12/15 01:38:40
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

You've got to go back to earlier in the thread Gale, back to Brouwer's original post and follow it from there. Everything you are seeing at this point is being referenced against German privacy laws as they apply to Western Europe. Our friends in The Netherlands are being given a bum rap by LDS it appears. Everything covered by the German Bundesdatenschutzgesetz [Federal Data Protection Act] is verboten there, at least as far as LDS holdings go (whereas they're freely available outside of Europe, and possibly Britain). Go figure.

Shame, because that 1852 census you referenced is a real winner for the areas it covers. Jens Mueller-Koppe and Regina Koppe at HRS [Historical Research Services] in Bremen have been compiling a master data bank of that census for some time now. More can be found here for anyone interested:
http://www.hist.de/edition-hist(e).html

Keep in mind for those outside of Europe, many 19th century German censuses are available c/o LDS on microfilm, which can be ordered in for viewing and copying at local Family History Centers.

Jb

From: <gale(a)bosche.info>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses PS
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:36:12 -0500

Hi:

I am not sure I understand all the comments about privacy
on the 19th century censuses.  I have a complete and very
detailed copy of the 1852 census published for my GF's
hometown in the KOH.

Gale


On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 05:47:27 -0800
  "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> Good input Werner. Every little bit helps on this. But
>keep in mind I believe LDS abides by the German privacy
>laws to the extent that any data so protected by those
>provisions will not be viewable at its LDS facilities
>throughout Western Europe. Church records - to the extent
>that they have been allowed to be filmed by the churches
>- don't fall under those guidelines to my knowledge.
>
> The other key question would be, are there exceptions to
>this rule at any LDS centers in Niedersachsen, where
>things like census records might be able to be viewed?
>
> Jb

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Re: [HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (J b)

Date: 2006/12/15 02:07:56
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Über-Armin <AJHattorf(a)aol.com> wrote:

To be honest not only the US Hattorf or Hattorff how the old name was
written were related i could not find a single Hattorff in Germany who is not
somewhere related to another one.

There is only ONE big Hattorf family tree beginning about 1241 with gaps
then in 1398 he is beginning to be sure. And you can trace back all Hattorfs you
ever find back to that one family living in Duderstadt and Osterode in the
13th century.

So all Hattorffs in the USA are related i told you before even if they
sometimes think the do not want to be related to someone who is living in NY when
they are from VA. lol North vs. South the old story.

I can only tell you then that this is something of an eye opener for many from this side of the pond. Hard to believe really, when we on this end are so used to running across identical surnames to our own but upon further investigation can find no connection whatsoever (even looking beyond those whose names may have been altered from the original after arriving in the States).

So no strange Hattorff found till today, ok for the last two i have to find
a proof, but i hope to get it soon.

So most of the Hattorfs are coming from the Bremen line.

I am only that much more impressed then. I believe you can rightfully say you are the current Master Über Researcher of that family name. Anyone in the states with a Hattorf connection who is pursuing genealogy should be leaping for joy (and assist you anywhere they can with legwork or financial chips). But alas, many have interest in family history but don't want to be the ones to have to do the actual dirty work, or even help those who do with small contributions. Old story of course. That we should all be so lucky though to have someone like you come knocking one fine day!

Wishing you continued success my friend.

Jb

PS. I see Sandra Powell snagged that info you were seeking. Our little Kuhdorf continues to blink brightly. :-)

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[HN] WALLHERMFECHTEL

Date: 2006/12/15 02:50:37
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>


"Bob Doerr of beautiful Missouri" asked:

Hallo
Please, where would the family Wallhermfechtel probably have originated?
I find none in the German phone book.
Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks
-

Hallo Bob,

Having looked on familysearch it looks like you, amongst many, have a surname only found in the Americas. Either the man was the last fertile male with his surname in Germany, which is quite possible or there's some other reason. Double checking the surname on Google came up with the same half dozen given names and are most probably descendants of the same migrant. I have used the wildcard on a few sites and haven't come up with anything suitable but interestingly Wolfenbuttel (excuse no umlaut) figured in one result (some wildcat surname results are below).

WALLHERM FECHTEL

It struck me that perhaps your ancestor could have joined his parents surnames together or maybe the last two syllables (FECHTEL) could be the name of the place from whence he came. Quite often old handwriting is corrupted, thus could the 'F' be another letter such as a 'B' (millions of 'Bechtel' mentions). OR, could the man's name have been Walt(er) Herm(ann) Fechtel (or Setchel) and in spite of the mistake and for whatever reason, did he decided to keep his new official surname because he had a sense of humour?

Maybe the German subscribers to the list could put forward their ideas.
--------
Sechtel, Germany. Longitude:, 12.2. Latitude:, 47.85. world night | world day | zoom | explore.
==
W*tel = 2:-   Franz Weinzettel :  Wolfenbuttel
====
H*tel =  1:-  Hechtel from Belgium
===
W*SE*T*L = 2:-   Walsertal : Wisenthal
==
M*TEL = 1:-
MATS HABAZETTETT alias MATS HABAZETTEL
Born SCHOALAND, Bohemia
Served in 60th Foot Regiment
Discharged aged 35
Covering dates1813-1816
-----
Good Luck,
Rena in England


Re: [HN] Secretive

Date: 2006/12/15 02:52:39
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Fantastic story Maureen, really. You rightly wear that lavaliere proudly.

In our family it is was said this "clearing out" was done because
people could not bare to go one with their lives surrounded by
such reminders of the past and the loved ones who had died.

The "clearing out" syndrome, I should have guessed as much! [doh! hits self in the head]. Joking aside, that is but another angle that surely carries some weight in regards to this seemingly "secretive" nature we speak of. Much like the points Rena added earlier, it fills in the picture a little more clearly. And here I thought my California conflagration catastrophe was a "one in a million" scenario, only to see John over in Illinois has a very similar story to offer regarding his ancestors in Oklahoma. And now what you've included. Those keepsakes are worth their weight in gold.

I think it is apparent that when you size it up in the end, there were a whole array of reasons and factors that helped contribute to this perplexing condition. How much easier all of this is seen when analyzed from our lofty perches of many years hence, perches our ancestors helped put into place. It only goes to prove that their immigrant experience, much like other immigrant groups, was not always smooth or without obstacles, but with typical Germanic determination, they persevered as a whole and did surprisingly well.

Jb

From: "Maureen Shelly" <mcshelly2(a)msn.com>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: [HN] Secretive
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:11:58 -0600

In our family it is was said this "clearing out" was done because
people could not bare to go one with their lives surrounded by
such reminders of the past and the loved ones who had died.

My father was four when his Irish-born mother died. He somehow
got hold of a small lavaliere she had worn on a chain around her neck.
He never told about it or showed it to anyone.  He kept it wrapped
and hidden.  When he got a bank safe deposit box he stored it
there in secret, in silence, for many decades.

My grandfather kept one small photo, but showed that to no one,
especially not his children whom he thought would be harmed by
the remembrance.  No one knew he had it.  When my grand-
father died, my aunt found the photo and showed us, once ...
and when it passed to her youngest daughter she made photo-
copies for us all.

When my dad retired and closed the safety deposit box near his
office in the city and brought all the contents to the family box in
our suburban town, he showed my mother the tiny gold  lavaliere,
and told her the story of his "theft" as a 4-year-old.

You must know that I wear it nearly every day, don't you?

Maureen

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Re: [HN] WALLHERMFECHTEL

Date: 2006/12/15 03:07:46
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hallo Hans Peter !!

I see we have come to the same conclusion ! Great minds think alike :-)) :-))

Rena, in an English rain storm
==

"Bob Doerr" <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu> schrieb:
Hallo
Please, where would the family Wallhermfechtel probably have originated?
I find none in the German phone book.
Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks
===
Very unusual name indeed. I would favourize the following word history:

the name of a Walter Hermann Fechtel was contracted to Walthermfechtel because of abbrevation of Walter = Walt and Hermann = Herm. Otherwise the name sounds like modern woman names connecting two family names or as one single family name to German ears a bit complicated structured like Indian names in the literature, for example as "The-bear-that-looks-around-the corner". In the end nothing is impossible and you will be lucky to find that name back in Germany. Meanwhile I would try to get a connection to a FECHTEL family, because this name is an existing name with about 100 different families and entries in the telephone directory.If the first two syllable should be also a family name of its own, there are different possibilities in WALDHEIM, WALDHERR, WALLHERR etc.

Good luck

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel


Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses

Date: 2006/12/15 03:08:56
From: Edith M Burk <emburk(a)juno.com>

Hello Bonita,
I noticed you were researching the KROEGER name.  My great-grandfather
was a Kroeger.
Hartwig Kroeger was from Puls, Schleswig-Holstein, in the parish of
Schenenfeld near Itzahoe.
He came to America with his wife, 5 daughters and 1 son and settled in
Illinois.
His 3 brothers also came to America: Marx, Henry and John.

What Kroeger's are you researching?
Edith in Texas

Re: [HN] WALLHERMFECHTEL

Date: 2006/12/15 04:05:01
From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>

Thanks for broadening my thinking.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rena McCarthy" <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:47 PM
Subject: [HN] WALLHERMFECHTEL



"Bob Doerr of beautiful Missouri" asked:

Hallo
Please, where would the family Wallhermfechtel probably have originated?
I find none in the German phone book.
Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks
-

Hallo Bob,

Having looked on familysearch it looks like you, amongst many, have a
surname only found in the Americas.  Either the man was the last fertile
male with his surname in Germany, which is quite possible or there's some
other reason.  Double checking the surname on Google came up with the same
half dozen given names and are most probably descendants of the same
migrant.   I have used the wildcard on a few sites and haven't come up with
anything suitable but interestingly Wolfenbuttel (excuse no umlaut) figured
in one result (some wildcat surname results are below).

WALLHERM FECHTEL

It struck me that perhaps your ancestor could have joined his parents
surnames together or maybe the last two syllables (FECHTEL) could be the
name of the place from whence he came.  Quite often old handwriting is
corrupted, thus could the 'F' be another letter such as a 'B' (millions of
'Bechtel' mentions).  OR, could the man's name have been Walt(er) Herm(ann)
Fechtel (or Setchel) and in spite of the mistake and for whatever reason,
did he decided to keep his new official surname because he had a sense of
humour?

Maybe the German subscribers to the list could put forward their ideas.
--------
Sechtel, Germany. Longitude:, 12.2. Latitude:, 47.85. world night | world
day | zoom | explore.
==
W*tel = 2:-   Franz Weinzettel :  Wolfenbuttel
====
H*tel =  1:-  Hechtel from Belgium
===
W*SE*T*L = 2:-   Walsertal : Wisenthal
==
M*TEL = 1:-
MATS HABAZETTETT alias MATS HABAZETTEL
Born SCHOALAND, Bohemia
Served in 60th Foot Regiment
Discharged aged 35
Covering dates1813-1816
-----
Good Luck,
Rena in England


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Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses -lds

Date: 2006/12/15 05:28:23
From: mmongoose <mmongoose(a)tds.net>

The LDS has to negotiate with some countries for permission to photo-copy their records. In these negotiations, the governments often have put certain restrictions on where the films could be made available.

Barbara Rice

Lullmann   Remstedt   Homfeld  "Seveus"?  "Luertke"


Re: [HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (Julia Hattorff) (Sandra)

Date: 2006/12/15 06:21:46
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Hi Sandra 
 
Wow, yes thats it i thank you very much. So this is Julia Hattorff married  
with a certain George W. Combs. And Julia is born about 1851 in NY, so she can  
only be a daughter of F.A. Hattorf(f) and Julia N.N. from Germany. 
 
This is the reason why i wanted to see the family again in the 1860 census.  
But HE is in Virginia in 1860 and were is his wife Julia with all the kids?  
still in New York or did she die having another baby after 1851???
 
Too many secrets. I will spend a lot of time in front of my screen staring  
at the pages of the 1860 census NY, Manhattan, Brooklyn finally the kids can be 
 in an orphenage but they should be in anyway.
 
I thank you very much
 
Armin
 
 

Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses

Date: 2006/12/15 07:52:05
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Kenneth,

     If you run a search in the Hannover archives for "Hempel Osterode", you
will get something with Hempel. There is more than one Osterode. Go here:

http://aidaonline.niedersachsen.de/

    There are some very early church records with the LDS of Osterode(Harz).
Also some in the 1800's in Herzberg.

Barbara

    

     



on 12/11/06 12:23 PM, K E at kenofnocal(a)yahoo.com wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> I'm wondering if someone might be able to answer a few
> basic questions about German censuses. Specifically,
> I'd like to know when census data was first collected,
> whether there are census records for the Kingdom of
> Hanover during the 19th century, and how I might
> access records for the Harz Mountains region (Herzberg
> am Harz, Osterode am Harz, etc). I'm trying to
> determine if there was a Hempel family in the region
> during that period.
> 
> Thanks for any insights you may have.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Kenneth
> 
> __________________________________________________
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Re: [HN] Telephone Buch Hannover 1948- look up if possible

Date: 2006/12/15 10:26:40
From: Holger Bremer <holgerbremer(a)googlemail.com>

Hallo,

im Adressbuch von 1953 gibt es 17 Fritz Weber und dazu noch unzählige
Friedrich Weber. Leider sind immer nur die Haushaltsvorstände angegeben
nicht aber deren Ehefrauen und Kinder. Es finden sich jedoch regelmäßig
Anagen zum Beruf.

Um deinen Friz Weber zu finden, solltest Du mir den Beruf von Fritz nennen.
Dann schaue ich gerne noch einmal nach.

Holger

Am 13.12.06 schrieb tailby(a)xtra.co.nz <tailby(a)xtra.co.nz>:

Liebe Liste,

Hat zufaellig jemand das Telefonbuch von Hannover von 1948, auch etwas
davor
oder danach?? Oder hat die Moeglichkeit nachzuschlagen. Ich suche nach
FRITZ
WEBER mit Frau Toni. Ich weiss leider keine Adresse. Ich habe jede Menge
alte Postkarten von ihm an meinen Grossvater ( seinen Bruder) - habe aber
sonst keinerlei Hinweise, wo er und seine Familie in Hannover gewohnt
haben.
Um jeden Hinweis waere ich dankbar.
Lieben Gruss
Angie



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Re: [HN] WALLHERMFECHTEL

Date: 2006/12/15 10:31:36
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"Rena McCarthy" <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk> schrieb:
> Hallo Hans Peter !!
> 
> I see we have come to the same conclusion !  Great minds think alike :-)) 
> :-))
> 
> Rena, in an English rain storm
> ==

sic !! Hans Peter from the still medium tempered continent. Hope we could forward the researches a bit for the WALLHERMFECHTEL family. Best wishes.

Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses -lds

Date: 2006/12/15 11:15:42
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Thanks for clarifying the LDS policy Barbara. That they have little choice but to go along with the restrictions placed by the German authorities to comply with that nation's privacy laws makes the most sense.

Jb

The LDS has to negotiate with some countries for permission to
photo-copy their records.  In these negotiations, the governments
often have put certain restrictions on where the films could be made
available.

Barbara Rice

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[HN] German census guide

Date: 2006/12/15 11:28:46
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Here is a brief guide as to what to expect when it comes to census records in the former kingdom of Hannover. My knowledge of these censuses comes mainly from research I did in them during the 1990's at LDS, mostly for Hildesheim and the city of Hannover. Census returns starting around 1850 (and later) will offer the biggest bang for the buck, as they list the individual members that comprise the family units. Earlier censuses will list the heads of the households only, much as you find in U.S. census records for the same periods.

The census data for the residents of each community, village or town was recorded in a so called "Urliste" which was duly signed and sealed by the parish chairman or mayor. Today these census lists are preserved in the State Archives of Hannover, Aurich, Osnabrück and Stade, in a number of town archives, and some district archives (Kreisarchive). The LDS church has filmed most of the census records found at the Hannover State Archive, and in the town archives of Emden and Hildesheim. As important as this filming is, it covers the holdings of only 3 of about 25 relevant archives, and is mainly of use to researchers who already know the town or village their ancestors came from.

It should be remembered that there are a number of sizable gaps to be found in the Hannover census holdings, partly as a consequence of damages sustained at the archives in WWII.

Censuses that include the heads of the households only:

- Assorted early regional census records

- Censuses of the French occupation period 1811-1813

- Kingdom of Hannover censuses of 1833 to 1848

Censuses that include the heads of the households, plus wives, children, foster children, farmhands, maids, servants, foreigners and visitors. Also boarding schools, hospitals and maternity wards, and prisons in the area. No soldiers were enumerated. Information provided: name, address, marital status, profession, age and religion for each person. Street addresses and house numbers are also included.

- Kingdom of Hannover census lists of 1852, 1855, 1858, 1861 and 1864

Some of the information above can be found at the 1852 census project website of Jens and Regina Koppe in Bremen. Census project website: http://www.hist.de

----------------------------

LDS FHLC

Below is a listing of the census records LDS has as part of their census collection for the Hannover region.

The LDS organization classifies them under Volkszählungen (census), part of their German Gerichtsakten (court records) holdings in the Family History Library Catalog (FHLC). These records can be ordered in on microfilm as film rentals, and read at your local LDS FHC (Family History Center).

To access the indexes of these holdings online at the LDS Family Search website, start at:

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

=> [Press] Place search
=> Place: Type: Hannover [Press Search]
=> [Click]: Germany, Preußen, Hannover
=> [Click]: Germany, Preußen, Hannover - Census
=> [Click on area of interest]: (Example:) Gerichtsakten, 1802-1867 Hildesheim.Amtsgericht => [Click]: View Film Notes :: for more detailed information (upper right corner)

:: Germany, Preußen, Hannover - Census ::

Gerichtsakten, 1608-1855  Bruchhausen (Kr. Hoya, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1613-1870  Burgdorf (Kr. Burgdorf, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1732-1867  Reinhausen (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1766-1871  Fallersleben (Kr. Gifhorn). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1766-1876  Celle (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1778-1871  Freudenberg (Oberhoya, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1789-1850  Bardowick (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1792-1861  Linden ( STKr. Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1802-1867  Hildesheim (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1808-1882  Liebenburg (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1811-1864  Isenhagen (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1812-1880  Gieboldehausen (Kr. Duderstadt, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1813-1881  Gifhorn (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1815-1842  Wöltingerode (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1815-1854  Medingen (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1815-1861  Oldenstadt (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1815-1865  Marienburg (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1815-1880  Gronau (KrSt. Gronau, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1815-1906  Peine (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1816-1858  Uchte (Kr. Stolzenau, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1816-1864  Kirchwerder (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1816-1903  Hannover (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1818-1833  Eberstorf (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1821-1848  Northeim (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1822-1858  Pattensen (Kr. Winsen, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1823-1861  Lüchow (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1824-1868  Syke (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1824-1880  Hameln (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1824-1880  Harburg/Elbe (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1824-1884  Groß Burgwedel (Kr. Burgdorf, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1826-1877  Calenberg (Fürstentum). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1828-1861  Neuhaus (Kr. Uslar, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1830-1859  Sulingen (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1830-1878  Hoya (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1830-1880  Fallingbostel (Kr. Fallingbostel, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1830-1880  Neustadt (am Rübenberge, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1830-1880  Wennigsen (LKr. Linden, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1832-1844  Lüne (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1833-1848  Zellerfeld (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1833-1853  Springe (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1833-1855  Nienburg (KrSt. Nienburg, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1833-1869  Dannenberg (AG. Lüneburg). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1833-1907  Diepholz (LG. Osnabrück, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1836-1845  Winsen (Luhe/StKr. Winsen, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1836-1846  Gerden (Kr. Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1839-1848  Sankt Andreasberg (Kr. Zellerfeld, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1839-1863  Garlstorf (Kr. Winsen, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1843-1855  Hohenmoor (LKr. Hümmling, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1843-1859  Einbeck (LG. Göttingen). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1846-1846  Amelinghausen (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1852-1861  Stolzenau (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1852-1873  Meinersen (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1853-1880  Koppenbrügge (Kr. Hameln, Hannover). Standesamt
Gerichtsakten, 1853-1880  Lauenstein (Kr. Hameln, Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1855-1858  Uslar (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1861-1881  Lüneburg (Hannover). Amtsgericht
Gerichtsakten, 1888-1875  Münden (KRST. Münden, Hannover). Amtsgericht

Hope this helps some.

Jb

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[HN] Antw: Re: 19th century German censuses -lds

Date: 2006/12/15 11:45:01
From: Falk Liebezeit <Falk.Liebezeit(a)diepholz.de>

Hello Barbara, 

In Germany it is the church administrations that allow or do not allow
to have their films read in European genealogical research centers. Some
southgerman dioceses such as Rottenburg do allow the LDS church to have
their vital record films read all over Europe. 
Muenster for example wants people to come to their OWN archives to read
the records so that research is rather done there instead of at the LDS
genealogical research centers. 
The state so far is concerned about privacy regarding dates after 1900,

they just passed a law releasing the information in civil records since
the setting up of civil registraion in Prussia (ioncluding Hannover) on
October 1st, 2006 and the German Empire on January 1st 1875 resp. 1876.


Greetings from Diepholz
in Niedersachsen Lower Saxony 

Falk Liebezeit 

>>> mmongoose <mmongoose(a)tds.net> 12/15/06 5:18  >>>
The LDS has to negotiate with some countries for permission to 
photo-copy their records.  In these negotiations,  the governments 
often  have put certain restrictions on where the  films could be made

available.

Barbara Rice

Lullmann   Remstedt   Homfeld  "Seveus"?  "Luertke"

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Re: [HN] Antw: Re: 19th century German censuses -lds

Date: 2006/12/15 12:21:42
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Falk, did you see Brouwers original post? [below] Obviously this subject is a bit more complex than simple ABC's, especially with new laws being passed on top of already varying church + state policies throughout Germany (though I suppose the same could be said here too in the US, with all the statutes and local variances we have across the land).

It sounded to me like the records Brouwers requested were census records. If - as you say - the German privacy laws are not be the thing preventing this vis-a-vis LDS, and we all know census records do not fall under the jurisdiction of the churches, is the hangup with LDS itself, serving as the governing church administrator of these films?

Jb

From :  Brouwers <anmaristin(a)zeelandnet.nl>
Sent :  Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:45 AM
To :  "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject :  Re: [HN] 19th century German censuses

JB,      I live in southern Netherlands right next to the Beliguim border so
sometimes I go to the Morman family center in Antwerpen to order films and
for Holland no problem, but for Germany I am not allowed to order any films,
the center in Vlissingen ( over the phone) says the same thing "no german
films are allowed to be ordered" from Beliguim or the Netherlands.  So what
now?  any suggestions would be greatly appreicated.

--------

From: "Falk Liebezeit" <Falk.Liebezeit(a)diepholz.de>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] Antw: Re:  19th century German censuses -lds
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 11:34:44 +0100

Hello Barbara,

In Germany it is the church administrations that allow or do not allow
to have their films read in European genealogical research centers. Some
southgerman dioceses such as Rottenburg do allow the LDS church to have
their vital record films read all over Europe.
Muenster for example wants people to come to their OWN archives to read
the records so that research is rather done there instead of at the LDS
genealogical research centers.
The state so far is concerned about privacy regarding dates after 1900,

they just passed a law releasing the information in civil records since
the setting up of civil registraion in Prussia (ioncluding Hannover) on
October 1st, 2006 and the German Empire on January 1st 1875 resp. 1876.


Greetings from Diepholz
in Niedersachsen Lower Saxony

Falk Liebezeit

_________________________________________________________________
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[HN] Antw: Re: 19th century German censuses -lds

Date: 2006/12/15 13:32:55
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

The words Falk wrote more or less echo my own understanding that the Church of Latter Day Saints set out to approach every church in the 1980's to ask permission to photograph the books kept on the church premises. In Britain, many priests/pastors/vicars agreed but many priests would not allow this.

Our research would not be so difficult if only European given names were not so difficult to pinpoint, i.e. we look for 'Heinrich' which will have two preceeding given names, (say) Johann Andreas Heinrich for example. Britain was fortunate that Hugh Wallis (found on rootsweb freepages) created middle name indexes from the IGI for all English and Scottish counties. To do this he extracted the relevant records from the batches listed on the relevant county page from his IGI Batch number site and indexed them by middle name.

Braunschweig Lutheran Archivist recently informed me that she would write out some official baptism records for me - the books being too old to film. I know of 3 people researching this village church record - this means the archivist is handling this 'too old' book many times when it would be safer to take digital images for public use. Incidentally the archivist gave me the name "Christine". Has anyone ever seen this English name in a German book?

Rena
=
From: "Falk Liebezeit" <Falk.Liebezeit(a)diepholz.de>

Hello Barbara,
In Germany it is the church administrations that allow or do not allow
to have their films read in European genealogical research centers. Some
southgerman dioceses such as Rottenburg do allow the LDS church to have
their vital record films read all over Europe.
Muenster for example wants people to come to their OWN archives to read
the records so that research is rather done there instead of at the LDS
genealogical research centers.
The state so far is concerned about privacy regarding dates after 1900,

they just passed a law releasing the information in civil records since
the setting up of civil registraion in Prussia (ioncluding Hannover) on
October 1st, 2006 and the German Empire on January 1st 1875 resp. 1876.

Greetings from Diepholz
in Niedersachsen Lower Saxony

Falk Liebezeit

mmongoose <mmongoose(a)tds.net> 12/15/06 5:18  >>>
The LDS has to negotiate with some countries for permission to
photo-copy their records.  In these negotiations,  the governments
often  have put certain restrictions on where the  films could be made
available.

Barbara Rice
Lullmann Remstedt Homfeld "Seveus"? "Luertke"


Re: [HN] Genealogy.com versus Ancestry.com (J b)

Date: 2006/12/15 13:36:56
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

 
In einer eMail vom 15.12.2006 02:09:58 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt  
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

But  alas, many have interest in family history but don't want to be 
the ones  to have to do the actual dirty work, or even help those who do with 
small  contributions. Old story of course. That we should all be so lucky 
though  to have someone like you come knocking one fine  day!



Hi John 
 
So it is, i remember i have been sending the complete family tree of  
Virginia to s.o in Richmond via snailmail, the first time they told me they  havent 
got it, the second time i tried to call after some weeks and one of their  kids 
hang up the phone ...... 
 
But there are still lucky hours too. Finding a descendend of an other  
Hattorff family who no longer wears the name. This one is a bloodhound too and  is 
helping me with all he had looking for certificates of death and so on. He  
made researches for me in Richmond VA. So i know today the second marriage of  
F.A. Without his help i would never find this.
 
Its not dirty work but its sometimes frustrating to find nothing after 3 or  
4 hours of research, and its better then the best crime story in TV, cause you 
 find something that no one can find.
 
The first 4 years i had to work all alone. Its a good feeling to be in a  
team now. I will never stop with my researches till i know all about the family  
and the tree is complete. One part of the tree (Osterode/Duderstadt) i have 
sent  3 years ago to the LDS church. There he should be save and warm.
 
Yes is got the mail from Sandra, very good one mystery less now i know that  
its probably the daughter of FA and Julia born 1851. The search in the 1860  
census will go on.
 
My best to you all
 
Armin

[HN] Antw: Re: 19th century German censuses -lds

Date: 2006/12/15 13:44:09
From: Falk Liebezeit <Falk.Liebezeit(a)diepholz.de>

Yes Barbara, 

Christine is fairly common all over Germany - past and present

Falk 

>>> "Rena McCarthy" <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk> 12/15/06 1:32  >>>
The words Falk wrote more or less echo my own understanding that the
Church 
of Latter Day Saints set out to approach every church in the 1980's to
ask 
permission to photograph the books kept on the church premises.  In
Britain, 
many priests/pastors/vicars agreed but many priests would not allow
this.

Our research would not be so difficult if only European given names
were not 
so difficult to pinpoint, i.e. we look for 'Heinrich' which will have
two 
preceeding given names, (say) Johann Andreas Heinrich for example. 
Britain 
was fortunate that Hugh Wallis (found on rootsweb freepages) created
middle 
name indexes from the IGI for all English and Scottish counties. To do
this 
he extracted the relevant records from the batches listed on the
relevant 
county page from his IGI Batch number site and indexed them by middle
name.

Braunschweig Lutheran Archivist recently informed me that she would
write 
out some official baptism records for me - the books being too old to
film. 
I know of 3 people researching this village church record - this means
the 
archivist is handling this 'too old' book many times when it would be
safer 
to take digital images for public use.  Incidentally the archivist gave
me 
the name "Christine".  Has anyone ever seen this English name in a
German 
book?

Rena
=
From: "Falk Liebezeit" <Falk.Liebezeit(a)diepholz.de>

Hello Barbara,
In Germany it is the church administrations that allow or do not allow
to have their films read in European genealogical research centers.
Some
southgerman dioceses such as Rottenburg do allow the LDS church to
have
their vital record films read all over Europe.
Muenster for example wants people to come to their OWN archives to
read
the records so that research is rather done there instead of at the
LDS
genealogical research centers.
The state so far is concerned about privacy regarding dates after
1900,

they just passed a law releasing the information in civil records
since
the setting up of civil registraion in Prussia (ioncluding Hannover)
on
October 1st, 2006 and the German Empire on January 1st 1875 resp.
1876.

Greetings from Diepholz
in Niedersachsen Lower Saxony

Falk Liebezeit

>>> mmongoose <mmongoose(a)tds.net> 12/15/06 5:18  >>>
The LDS has to negotiate with some countries for permission to
photo-copy their records.  In these negotiations,  the governments
often  have put certain restrictions on where the  films could be made
available.

Barbara Rice
Lullmann   Remstedt   Homfeld  "Seveus"?  "Luertke" 


______________________________________________

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Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Re: [HN] Secretive

Date: 2006/12/15 14:47:25
From: JRodenburg <JRodenburg(a)aol.com>

In a message dated 12/14/2006 6:12:04 PM Central Standard Time, 
johnbrene(a)hotmail.com writes:


> I'll head to the kitchen, stand there in front of the refrigerator, and 
> wonder what I came for. Then I'll spot a beer, grab it, and say to myself 
> "Must be this."
> 
> Beyond these frequent mental lapses, I also find myself asking (in tones of 
> justification): how can anyone truly claim to be German if they have never 
> felt the passion behind a little liquid love? ;)
> 

Not sure how old you are JB, but i'm 57 and love my St. Pauli Girl as much as 
30 years ago. I just don't drink as much. It will be a challenge when the Doc 
says start taking meds. BTW, beer is mentioned in one of the Psalms or 
Proverbs, so it is nothing new. A gift of God in my opinion. John


Viele Grüße aus Illinois
John Rodenburg
Rodenburg (Tarmstedt, Hannover)
Brunkhorst (Stemmen, Hannover)
Werner (Langen, Hesse-Darmstadt),
Steinke (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)
Krause (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)
Schröder (Warsow, Mecklenburg-Schwerin), 
Meyer (Wechold, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)
Zum Mallen (Schierholz, Kreis Hoya, Hannover) 
Röhrdanz (Mecklenburg-Schwerin)

Re: [HN] Antw: Re: 19th century German censuses -lds

Date: 2006/12/15 14:50:52
From: svcygnus <svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com>

Hi Rena,
   I can't say that I've ever noticed the name "Christine" in any German
archival doccuments, but then, I wasn't looking for that name.   However, I
have a distant cousin in the Hannover area named Christine.   Her siblings and
children all have "typical" German names (Heinrich, Jörn, etc).   I
also knew a
German flight attendent (in my former incarnation as an airline
pilot)whose name
was Christine.
Don Roddy

----- Message from rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk ---------
    Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 12:32:07 -0000
    From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
 Subject: [HN]  Antw: Re:  19th century German censuses -lds
      To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net



The words Falk wrote more or less echo my own understanding that the Church
of Latter Day Saints set out to approach every church in the 1980's to ask
permission to photograph the books kept on the church premises.  In Britain,
many priests/pastors/vicars agreed but many priests would not allow this.

Our research would not be so difficult if only European given names were not
so difficult to pinpoint, i.e. we look for 'Heinrich' which will have two
preceeding given names, (say) Johann Andreas Heinrich for example.  Britain
was fortunate that Hugh Wallis (found on rootsweb freepages) created middle
name indexes from the IGI for all English and Scottish counties. To do this
he extracted the relevant records from the batches listed on the relevant
county page from his IGI Batch number site and indexed them by middle name.

Braunschweig Lutheran Archivist recently informed me that she would write
out some official baptism records for me - the books being too old to film.
I know of 3 people researching this village church record - this means the
archivist is handling this 'too old' book many times when it would be safer
to take digital images for public use.  Incidentally the archivist gave me
the name "Christine".  Has anyone ever seen this English name in a German
book?

Rena
=
From: "Falk Liebezeit" <Falk.Liebezeit(a)diepholz.de>

Hello Barbara,
In Germany it is the church administrations that allow or do not allow
to have their films read in European genealogical research centers. Some
southgerman dioceses such as Rottenburg do allow the LDS church to have
their vital record films read all over Europe.
Muenster for example wants people to come to their OWN archives to read
the records so that research is rather done there instead of at the LDS
genealogical research centers.
The state so far is concerned about privacy regarding dates after 1900,

they just passed a law releasing the information in civil records since
the setting up of civil registraion in Prussia (ioncluding Hannover) on
October 1st, 2006 and the German Empire on January 1st 1875 resp. 1876.

Greetings from Diepholz
in Niedersachsen Lower Saxony

Falk Liebezeit

mmongoose <mmongoose(a)tds.net> 12/15/06 5:18  >>>
The LDS has to negotiate with some countries for permission to
photo-copy their records.  In these negotiations,  the governments
often  have put certain restrictions on where the  films could be made
available.

Barbara Rice
Lullmann   Remstedt   Homfeld  "Seveus"?  "Luertke"


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



----- End message from rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk -----



Re: [HN] Antw: Re: 19th century German censuses -lds

Date: 2006/12/15 15:05:44
From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>

Hallo

It is similar here in Missouri, but not identical.

In Missouri there are four Catholic dioceses. One permitted the LDS to film
the records of the parishes in that diocese. The other three dioceses have
not given permission. Now the National Council of Catholic Bishops
recommends that bishops do not give permission.

A different approach was followed in the Diocese of Belleville, Illinois.
The local (St. Clair County) genealogy Verein was allowed to copy the films
(of parish records) that the diocese had made, on the condition that data
from after a certain date be excised.

The Missouri Synod Lutherans have not permitted filming, but other Lutheran
groups have permitted filming.

Many of the old ev.-Luth. records in Missouri have been filmed, but, it
seems, on a parish-by-parish basis. I fear that many of those excellent old
records have been lost. Interestingly, in those records, the word Pathen was
changed to Patten just about when that change was made in Germany.

I have never found in a Missouri record that the pastor had entered the
surnames of the principals in plain Roman lettering, as did the pastor at
St. Georgen (kath.) in Freiburg/Br. That is a super "Rosetta stone" to his
handwriting and, indeed, to old German handscript in general.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rena McCarthy" <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 6:32 AM
Subject: [HN] Antw: Re: 19th century German censuses -lds


The words Falk wrote more or less echo my own understanding that the Church
of Latter Day Saints set out to approach every church in the 1980's to ask
permission to photograph the books kept on the church premises.  In Britain,
many priests/pastors/vicars agreed but many priests would not allow this.

Our research would not be so difficult if only European given names were not
so difficult to pinpoint, i.e. we look for 'Heinrich' which will have two
preceeding given names, (say) Johann Andreas Heinrich for example.  Britain
was fortunate that Hugh Wallis (found on rootsweb freepages) created middle
name indexes from the IGI for all English and Scottish counties. To do this
he extracted the relevant records from the batches listed on the relevant
county page from his IGI Batch number site and indexed them by middle name.

Braunschweig Lutheran Archivist recently informed me that she would write
out some official baptism records for me - the books being too old to film.
I know of 3 people researching this village church record - this means the
archivist is handling this 'too old' book many times when it would be safer
to take digital images for public use.  Incidentally the archivist gave me
the name "Christine".  Has anyone ever seen this English name in a German
book?

Rena
=
From: "Falk Liebezeit" <Falk.Liebezeit(a)diepholz.de>

Hello Barbara,
In Germany it is the church administrations that allow or do not allow
to have their films read in European genealogical research centers. Some
southgerman dioceses such as Rottenburg do allow the LDS church to have
their vital record films read all over Europe.
Muenster for example wants people to come to their OWN archives to read
the records so that research is rather done there instead of at the LDS
genealogical research centers.
The state so far is concerned about privacy regarding dates after 1900,

they just passed a law releasing the information in civil records since
the setting up of civil registraion in Prussia (ioncluding Hannover) on
October 1st, 2006 and the German Empire on January 1st 1875 resp. 1876.

Greetings from Diepholz
in Niedersachsen Lower Saxony

Falk Liebezeit

>>> mmongoose <mmongoose(a)tds.net> 12/15/06 5:18  >>>
The LDS has to negotiate with some countries for permission to
photo-copy their records.  In these negotiations,  the governments
often  have put certain restrictions on where the  films could be made
available.

Barbara Rice
Lullmann   Remstedt   Homfeld  "Seveus"?  "Luertke"


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l




Re: [HN] Antw: Re: 19th century German censuses -lds

Date: 2006/12/15 15:09:34
From: Joel S. Russell <jsruss(a)mindspring.com>

Rena,

I found the names Christine and Christina numerous times during my research of German records. I'm not sure how widespread the name is throughout the country, my research is predominantly in north and northwest Germany.

Joel

At 07:32 AM 12/15/2006, you wrote:
The words Falk wrote more or less echo my own understanding that the Church
of Latter Day Saints set out to approach every church in the 1980's to ask
permission to photograph the books kept on the church premises.  In Britain,
many priests/pastors/vicars agreed but many priests would not allow this.

Our research would not be so difficult if only European given names were not
so difficult to pinpoint, i.e. we look for 'Heinrich' which will have two
preceeding given names, (say) Johann Andreas Heinrich for example.  Britain
was fortunate that Hugh Wallis (found on rootsweb freepages) created middle
name indexes from the IGI for all English and Scottish counties. To do this
he extracted the relevant records from the batches listed on the relevant
county page from his IGI Batch number site and indexed them by middle name.

Braunschweig Lutheran Archivist recently informed me that she would write
out some official baptism records for me - the books being too old to film.
I know of 3 people researching this village church record - this means the
archivist is handling this 'too old' book many times when it would be safer
to take digital images for public use.  Incidentally the archivist gave me
the name "Christine".  Has anyone ever seen this English name in a German
book?

Rena
=
From: "Falk Liebezeit" <Falk.Liebezeit(a)diepholz.de>

Hello Barbara,
In Germany it is the church administrations that allow or do not allow
to have their films read in European genealogical research centers. Some
southgerman dioceses such as Rottenburg do allow the LDS church to have
their vital record films read all over Europe.
Muenster for example wants people to come to their OWN archives to read
the records so that research is rather done there instead of at the LDS
genealogical research centers.
The state so far is concerned about privacy regarding dates after 1900,

they just passed a law releasing the information in civil records since
the setting up of civil registraion in Prussia (ioncluding Hannover) on
October 1st, 2006 and the German Empire on January 1st 1875 resp. 1876.

Greetings from Diepholz
in Niedersachsen Lower Saxony

Falk Liebezeit

>>> mmongoose <mmongoose(a)tds.net> 12/15/06 5:18  >>>
The LDS has to negotiate with some countries for permission to
photo-copy their records.  In these negotiations,  the governments
often  have put certain restrictions on where the  films could be made
available.

Barbara Rice
Lullmann   Remstedt   Homfeld  "Seveus"?  "Luertke"


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
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[HN] Wallhermfechtel

Date: 2006/12/15 15:39:09
From: Robert Coley <rcoley001(a)triad.rr.com>

Regarding your question of origin for the Wallhermfechtel name. 
Ancestry.com quotes the name of 
Joseph Conr Wallhermfechtel
1846 age about 20 immigrant
Source quote
      MUELLER, FRIEDRICH. "Westfaelische Auswanderer im 19. Jahrhundert-Auswanderung aus dem Regierungsbezirk Minden, Part 1: 1816-1900 (Erlaubte Auswanderung)." In Beitraege zur westfaelischen Familienforschung, vols. 38/39 (1980-1981), pp. 3-711. page 478
      being from Westfalen, government district of Minden part one 1816-1900, permitted emigrations. 
      Page: 478  

[HN] WALLHERMFECHTEL

Date: 2006/12/15 16:06:44
From: Robert Coley <rcoley001(a)triad.rr.com>

http://www.stadtplandienst.de/spd20/Map.aspx?sid=c6518fb72c77fcb1b46607a21c0210cb

Both WALLHERMFECHTEL individuals born in Germany give the place of birth as Westphalia in the ancestry.com cencus. One gives the place of birth as Neu Kaunitz. Please see the link for it above. It is outside of Verl near Guethersloh,Germany.

Re: [HN] Antw: Re: 19th century German censuses -lds

Date: 2006/12/15 16:08:26
From: Karsten Fahrenkohl <ar0908874286(a)arcor.de>

Hallo Liste!

Nach wie vor suche ich nach dem Verbleib der Kinder des Pastor Jacob Conrad Fahrenkohl aus Didderse ( verstorben 1.12.1759).
Ludolphine Regina, geb. 27.03.1727,
Henning Georg Wilhelm, geb. 16.05.1730,
Christian Heinrich, geb. 21.03.1732,
Bea