Monatsdigest

Re: [HN] Re: Invitation

Date: 2006/02/01 00:38:15
From: Captruro <Captruro(a)aol.com>

 

Everyone who replied:
 
Thank you for some very good advice on visiting Germany and doing some 
research.  I think a combination of a tour for someone like me who needs orientation 
and some time to go on my own probably will be the way to go.  I love to 
travel but my husband has some physical problems so I know he would feel better 
with me going with a group.  I enjoy Rick Steve's programs of touring 
Europe/Germany and wonder if anyone is familiar with his tours.  Thanks again.
 
In a message dated 1/28/2006 8:53:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
raybarbara(a)comcast.net writes:

Hello,

I just want to say that Germany is not a hard place to drive and find
your own way around.  If you rent a car, you can go on your own, at your own
pace, and with a really good detailed map (like my Falk autoatlas), you can
find what you need. Having a human navigator, i.e. map-reader, is most
useful. We've gone to Germany twice and loved it.  You need not be afraid of
the autobahn (stay in the slower lane and let the fast drivers pass you by).
It can be congested in the larger cities--we've gotten "lost" in a few
European cities, but somehow always found our way. The best story I know is
when my sister and husband went into Köln (Cologne) about 10 pm on a
Saturday night.  They went to the city center and there were cars and people
everywhere. They saw a hotel and managed to park the car in the reserved
parking in front and went in to make arrangements for a room.  They left
their luggage  in the hotel and went out to move the car to a lot supposedly
down the street. They missed the turn and didn't see it.  Then tried to go
back and, of course, everything becomes a blur.  The worst part of it was
they realized they didn't even know the name of the hotel and they had left
their luggage there!  Around midnight they finally found it --   Whenever
you make a wrong turn in a big city ....  But that goes for American big
cities as well. 

And, yes, allow a lot of time to do your own research.  It ALWAYS takes
longer than you think!!  That is why some of my loose ends in the Emsland
area are still hanging - Bavaria as well.

The best part of all is seeing the towns/cities where your ancestors
came from!  It is so wonderful. Their cemeteries are so nicely kept -- but
don't hope to find anything in most places earlier than 50 years or so.  You
just can't do all that on a tour.

Barbara




on 1/28/06 6:06 PM, Bob Doerr at bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu wrote:

> I met a James Derheim in Darmstadt, and later in St. Louis; he does tours.
> Mostly, he photographs ancestral towns on demand. I have no info on where he
> lives, but I did record his e-mail: eurofocus(a)aol.com
> 
> 
> 
> Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jane Swan" <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>
> To: <Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net>
> Cc: <Captruro(a)aol.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 4:08 PM
> Subject: [HN] Re: Invitation
> 
> 
>> Cheryl:  Thank you for your nice compliments about my books.  I am so glad
> you enjoyed them.  Re: your question about genealogical tours:  as a retired
> travel agent, I can tell you that few agencies will bother with them as they
> are simply not economically feasible.  Unless you have a large group, they
> cannot get the airline or wholesale tour agencies discounts to  make the
> price reasonable.  For 3 or 4 people the cost would be prohibitive.  For a
> general tour you certainly wouldn't want to have to go traipsing to England,
> France, Italy or Russia, would you?  Even within Germany, if your interests
> lie in the Weser area, you would no doubt be bored visiting someone else's
> cousins in, say, Bavaria or Berlin.
>> I do know of one in Sarasota (and I'm sure you could find one such in the
> Boston area) that will take small family groups to one or two villages in a
> limited area but as I understand it, they will take pictures, let you meet
> some cousins, if any, etc. but allow very little time for in depth
> genealogical research.  And it is very pricey!!!
>> I should suggest contacting the gentleman Werner recommended and see what
> he has to offer for a general tour of the area and then, once you are
> familiar with the area, allow yourself an extra week or more to do your
> actual research.  You will find the Church-book custodians, in most small
> villages, to be most helpful - for a small fee, of course.  But you can
> learn a lot simply by writing letters to the individual churches.  Good
> luck.    Jane
>> 
>> 
>> Jane Swan
>> jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
>> Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


 

Re: [HN] Help

Date: 2006/02/01 00:44:56
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

---- J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com> wrote: 
> I don't think the code citation you are referencing is of much value. These 
> may have been placed for purposes of internal organization. I know on the 
> Hamburg Klüber Kartei [HKK] index cards they don't seem to matter for much, 
> not from a researcher's standpoint anyway, and you find these same notations 
> on them also. To use an HKK index card as an example because of its 
> similarity with what you cited, it will list the emigrant’s name, 
> occupation, age, names of others traveling in the same party, and place of 
> origin. It also includes the year of emigration and the page number where 
> the entry in the passenger list will be found (a letter i or d following the 
> year will indicate if the entry was from the indirect or direct index).
> 
> When you find the emigrant in the HKK index, you have to make note the 
> number following the name. This number indicates which page the name appears 
> on in the passenger list. Then you move up the column until you find the 
> actual departure date. When you have both the departure date and page 
> number, you can locate the emigrant in the actual (original) passenger list. 
> I never recall the code listed next to the year and page number mattering.
> 
> If I'm incorrect here, someone post more.
> 
> Good luck. Jb
> 
> >on 1/31/06 9:16 AM, Max at pharmaxx(a)charter.net wrote:
> >
> > > I believe I have already posted most of this information already, but 
> >bear
> > > with me. I recently viewed a tape at my local LDS library which I think 
> >was an
> > > index of emegrees through the port of Hamburg, I think for the years 
> >1834
> > > through 1913. (I may be off  a year or two). There is a line for 'Year', 
> >a
> > > line for 'Page' and a line for 'Code' The page line has the number 590
> > > entered. But the 0 is smaller in size and centered on the line. Perhaps 
> >a
> > > zero. But that is not my real concern.  To what do these entries refer 
> >to?
> > > The volunteers at the library were of no help. Can anybody out there 
> >tell me?
> > > The  information regarging the object of my search. Julius Wilhelm 
> >Burgdorf
> > > mathched what I already know but there was an origin place name,
> > > Baddeckenstedt.
> > > One of the listers, Erika Giftge has volunteered to help me in my search 
> >since
> > > she resides in the area. Any additional help is appreciated especially 
> >if you
> > > know what the page and code refers to. Thanks
> > > Max
> 


 J B
I think you are right. I have a copy of the passenger lis but at the moment am getting ready to leave for bible study. When I get home I will check out whar you said re the pass. list number
Max
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Re: [HN] Re: Invitation

Date: 2006/02/01 00:54:16
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi,
     The only tour we have ever taken in Europe was a Rick Steves' tour to
Italy.  It was in 2003 and it was wonderful.  We took a tour because we had
heard rumors about driving in Italy. Having been there, we don't think that
traffic there is that much worse than anywhere else.  It was a Bed, Bus and
Breakfast Tour that allowed more freedom to do things on our own.  Great
driver and great tourguide. Steves always chooses hotels that are right in
the heart of a town--they are not chain hotels,  but smaller and very
friendly. Small groups, less than 30. You have to pack light because you are
responsible for carrying your own luggage. You have to be fit, because the
tours include a lot of walking.  The nice thing is NO TIPPING to the driver
or the guide. Steves pays a good enough salary to those people - that will
prevent the driver from having "deals" with any store owners and the like.
    We did find it quite a bit more expensive than going on our own. But
most tours are. It is very well-organized and you won't be sorry.  It was a
wonderful experience.  And it is certainly great for someone going alone.
You really make friends.
Barbara


on 1/31/06 4:38 PM, Captruro(a)aol.com at Captruro(a)aol.com wrote:

> 
> 
> Everyone who replied:
> 
> Thank you for some very good advice on visiting Germany and doing some
> research.  I think a combination of a tour for someone like me who needs
> orientation 
> and some time to go on my own probably will be the way to go.  I love to
> travel but my husband has some physical problems so I know he would feel
> better 
> with me going with a group.  I enjoy Rick Steve's programs of touring
> Europe/Germany and wonder if anyone is familiar with his tours.  Thanks again.
> 
> In a message dated 1/28/2006 8:53:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> raybarbara(a)comcast.net writes:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I just want to say that Germany is not a hard place to drive and find
> your own way around.  If you rent a car, you can go on your own, at your own
> pace, and with a really good detailed map (like my Falk autoatlas), you can
> find what you need. Having a human navigator, i.e. map-reader, is most
> useful. We've gone to Germany twice and loved it.  You need not be afraid of
> the autobahn (stay in the slower lane and let the fast drivers pass you by).
> It can be congested in the larger cities--we've gotten "lost" in a few
> European cities, but somehow always found our way. The best story I know is
> when my sister and husband went into Köln (Cologne) about 10 pm on a
> Saturday night.  They went to the city center and there were cars and people
> everywhere. They saw a hotel and managed to park the car in the reserved
> parking in front and went in to make arrangements for a room.  They left
> their luggage  in the hotel and went out to move the car to a lot supposedly
> down the street. They missed the turn and didn't see it.  Then tried to go
> back and, of course, everything becomes a blur.  The worst part of it was
> they realized they didn't even know the name of the hotel and they had left
> their luggage there!  Around midnight they finally found it --   Whenever
> you make a wrong turn in a big city ....  But that goes for American big
> cities as well. 
> 
> And, yes, allow a lot of time to do your own research.  It ALWAYS takes
> longer than you think!!  That is why some of my loose ends in the Emsland
> area are still hanging - Bavaria as well.
> 
> The best part of all is seeing the towns/cities where your ancestors
> came from!  It is so wonderful. Their cemeteries are so nicely kept -- but
> don't hope to find anything in most places earlier than 50 years or so.  You
> just can't do all that on a tour.
> 
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on 1/28/06 6:06 PM, Bob Doerr at bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu wrote:
> 
>> I met a James Derheim in Darmstadt, and later in St. Louis; he does tours.
>> Mostly, he photographs ancestral towns on demand. I have no info on where he
>> lives, but I did record his e-mail: eurofocus(a)aol.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jane Swan" <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>
>> To: <Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net>
>> Cc: <Captruro(a)aol.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 4:08 PM
>> Subject: [HN] Re: Invitation
>> 
>> 
>>> Cheryl:  Thank you for your nice compliments about my books.  I am so glad
>> you enjoyed them.  Re: your question about genealogical tours:  as a retired
>> travel agent, I can tell you that few agencies will bother with them as they
>> are simply not economically feasible.  Unless you have a large group, they
>> cannot get the airline or wholesale tour agencies discounts to  make the
>> price reasonable.  For 3 or 4 people the cost would be prohibitive.  For a
>> general tour you certainly wouldn't want to have to go traipsing to England,
>> France, Italy or Russia, would you?  Even within Germany, if your interests
>> lie in the Weser area, you would no doubt be bored visiting someone else's
>> cousins in, say, Bavaria or Berlin.
>>> I do know of one in Sarasota (and I'm sure you could find one such in the
>> Boston area) that will take small family groups to one or two villages in a
>> limited area but as I understand it, they will take pictures, let you meet
>> some cousins, if any, etc. but allow very little time for in depth
>> genealogical research.  And it is very pricey!!!
>>> I should suggest contacting the gentleman Werner recommended and see what
>> he has to offer for a general tour of the area and then, once you are
>> familiar with the area, allow yourself an extra week or more to do your
>> actual research.  You will find the Church-book custodians, in most small
>> villages, to be most helpful - for a small fee, of course.  But you can
>> learn a lot simply by writing letters to the individual churches.  Good
>> luck.    Jane
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jane Swan
>>> jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
>>> Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Speckman Search

Date: 2006/02/01 16:25:48
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi All,
 
The  email address I included for the Osnabrueck area was osnabueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de which I was given by a representative of the Hanover site but it was in error - should have been osnabrueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de. 
 
Sorry for the error.
 
On the question related to the meaning of the area listed in the search ("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)"), I am still a bit confused. First of all, I don't know what the phrase means. In addition, while Wilfiried clarified that Haste has now been engulfed by Osnabrueck (thanks Wilfried), Schinkel (according to Mapquest) is quite some distance from Osnabrueck so this phrase ("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)" ) does not seem to describe an area. 
 
Any additional clarification would be appreciated. 
 
Thanks again to all,
 
Barney Speckman
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:08:57 -0500
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman Search


Hi Barbara,
 
Thanks again, I followed up on your leads from the emigrant list search. Here is 
what I found out so far.
The email address for Osnabruck(SP) records is different than the Hanover email. 
The Osnabruck email address is osnabueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de.
 
As an engineer I just had to try the searches myself so I went through the 
process you provided (thanks again) and got the same results - how comforting. 
In doing so, I noticed a few areas where addtional explanation and an example 
might be helpful so I added both to the explanation and have developed a revised 
explanation (word file) for what it is worth. Anyone who wants a copy pls ask 
for it - it is too large to make it past the 35K limit imposed by this list so I 
could not attach it to this email.
 
Lastly, using mapquest I tried to follow up on the town reference you found in 
the search which is 
"Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)" and I find a town named Haste and another 
named Schinkel and they are quite a disatnce apart so I do not know what this is 
referring to. Can anyone help me with this question.
 
Meanwhile I will make the request for the files at the email address above.
 
Best Regards,
 
Barney Speckman 
 
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Re: [HN] Re: Invitation

Date: 2006/02/01 16:39:39
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

 Hi,
 
I have been a disciple of Rick Steves approach to travel for 10 years and it works for me. My wife and  I do our own travel planning so we have never taken a tour however, we have run into tours of his and all have said they are great including some people we knew who were on the tours. They said they are relaxed, buses are not too crowded (when they travel by bus) and they have excellant guides.
 
Barney
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Captruro(a)aol.com
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:38:02 EST
Subject: Re: [HN] Re: Invitation


 

Everyone who replied:
 
Thank you for some very good advice on visiting Germany and doing some 
research.  I think a combination of a tour for someone like me who needs 
orientation 
and some time to go on my own probably will be the way to go.  I love to 
travel but my husband has some physical problems so I know he would feel better 
with me going with a group.  I enjoy Rick Steve's programs of touring 
Europe/Germany and wonder if anyone is familiar with his tours.  Thanks again.
 
In a message dated 1/28/2006 8:53:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
raybarbara(a)comcast.net writes:

Hello,

I just want to say that Germany is not a hard place to drive and find
your own way around.  If you rent a car, you can go on your own, at your own
pace, and with a really good detailed map (like my Falk autoatlas), you can
find what you need. Having a human navigator, i.e. map-reader, is most
useful. We've gone to Germany twice and loved it.  You need not be afraid of
the autobahn (stay in the slower lane and let the fast drivers pass you by).
It can be congested in the larger cities--we've gotten "lost" in a few
European cities, but somehow always found our way. The best story I know is
when my sister and husband went into Köln (Cologne) about 10 pm on a
Saturday night.  They went to the city center and there were cars and people
everywhere. They saw a hotel and managed to park the car in the reserved
parking in front and went in to make arrangements for a room.  They left
their luggage  in the hotel and went out to move the car to a lot supposedly
down the street. They missed the turn and didn't see it.  Then tried to go
back and, of course, everything becomes a blur.  The worst part of it was
they realized they didn't even know the name of the hotel and they had left
their luggage there!  Around midnight they finally found it --   Whenever
you make a wrong turn in a big city ....  But that goes for American big
cities as well. 

And, yes, allow a lot of time to do your own research.  It ALWAYS takes
longer than you think!!  That is why some of my loose ends in the Emsland
area are still hanging - Bavaria as well.

The best part of all is seeing the towns/cities where your ancestors
came from!  It is so wonderful. Their cemeteries are so nicely kept -- but
don't hope to find anything in most places earlier than 50 years or so.  You
just can't do all that on a tour.

Barbara




on 1/28/06 6:06 PM, Bob Doerr at bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu wrote:

> I met a James Derheim in Darmstadt, and later in St. Louis; he does tours.
> Mostly, he photographs ancestral towns on demand. I have no info on where he
> lives, but I did record his e-mail: eurofocus(a)aol.com
> 
> 
> 
> Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jane Swan" <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>
> To: <Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net>
> Cc: <Captruro(a)aol.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 4:08 PM
> Subject: [HN] Re: Invitation
> 
> 
>> Cheryl:  Thank you for your nice compliments about my books.  I am so glad
> you enjoyed them.  Re: your question about genealogical tours:  as a retired
> travel agent, I can tell you that few agencies will bother with them as they
> are simply not economically feasible.  Unless you have a large group, they
> cannot get the airline or wholesale tour agencies discounts to  make the
> price reasonable.  For 3 or 4 people the cost would be prohibitive.  For a
> general tour you certainly wouldn't want to have to go traipsing to England,
> France, Italy or Russia, would you?  Even within Germany, if your interests
> lie in the Weser area, you would no doubt be bored visiting someone else's
> cousins in, say, Bavaria or Berlin.
>> I do know of one in Sarasota (and I'm sure you could find one such in the
> Boston area) that will take small family groups to one or two villages in a
> limited area but as I understand it, they will take pictures, let you meet
> some cousins, if any, etc. but allow very little time for in depth
> genealogical research.  And it is very pricey!!!
>> I should suggest contacting the gentleman Werner recommended and see what
> he has to offer for a general tour of the area and then, once you are
> familiar with the area, allow yourself an extra week or more to do your
> actual research.  You will find the Church-book custodians, in most small
> villages, to be most helpful - for a small fee, of course.  But you can
> learn a lot simply by writing letters to the individual churches.  Good
> luck.    Jane
>> 
>> 
>> Jane Swan
>> jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
>> Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


 
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Re: [HN] Speckman Search

Date: 2006/02/01 18:56:29
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi Barry,

       Since you are ordering records, I think it will become clear which
town (Haste or Schinkel) your ancestor came from.  It could be that the
files were combined in the records for some practical reason.  I had also
wondered about the Dom named.  There is a Dom (cathedral) right in the
Osnabrück city center. There are a few other times in the Osnabrück
"Gliederung" which combine records from various towns.

     The error about the Osnabrück email address was not yours, as I recall.

      I forget if you said what church your people attended.  If Catholic,
you may have to go to Osnabrück to do research on your own.  That Dom is
right by the Catholic archives office in the city center of Osnabrück.
We've been there. I can give you some hints on that research.
   
Barbara



on 2/1/06 8:25 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> The  email address I included for the Osnabrueck area was
> osnabueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de which I was given by a representative of the
> Hanover site but it was in error - should have been
> osnabrueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de.
> 
> Sorry for the error.
> 
> On the question related to the meaning of the area listed in the search
> ("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)"), I am still a bit confused. First of all,
> I don't know what the phrase means. In addition, while Wilfiried clarified
> that Haste has now been engulfed by Osnabrueck (thanks Wilfried), Schinkel
> (according to Mapquest) is quite some distance from Osnabrueck so this phrase
> ("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)" ) does not seem to describe an area.
> 
> Any additional clarification would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks again to all,
> 
> Barney Speckman
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> Sent: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:08:57 -0500
> Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman Search
> 
> 
> Hi Barbara,
> 
> Thanks again, I followed up on your leads from the emigrant list search. Here
> is 
> what I found out so far.
> The email address for Osnabruck(SP) records is different than the Hanover
> email. 
> The Osnabruck email address is osnabueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de.
> 
> As an engineer I just had to try the searches myself so I went through the
> process you provided (thanks again) and got the same results - how comforting.
> In doing so, I noticed a few areas where addtional explanation and an example
> might be helpful so I added both to the explanation and have developed a
> revised 
> explanation (word file) for what it is worth. Anyone who wants a copy pls ask
> for it - it is too large to make it past the 35K limit imposed by this list so
> I 
> could not attach it to this email.
> 
> Lastly, using mapquest I tried to follow up on the town reference you found in
> the search which is
> "Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)" and I find a town named Haste and another
> named Schinkel and they are quite a disatnce apart so I do not know what this
> is 
> referring to. Can anyone help me with this question.
> 
> Meanwhile I will make the request for the files at the email address above.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Barney Speckman 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Speckman Search

Date: 2006/02/01 19:08:01
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Barry, 
     I pushed that send button a little too soon.  My super-duper Autoatlas
shows Haste to the northwest of the city of Osnabrück and Schinkel right in
the center of today's Osnabrück.  They are indeed not far apart.
     You're right about mapquest.  It does not show the Schinkel near
Osnabrück at all.   If you like, I could scan the map page from my atlas
and send it to you personally.
Barbara


on 2/1/06 10:56 AM, R&B Stewart at raybarbara(a)comcast.net wrote:

> Hi Barry,
> 
> Since you are ordering records, I think it will become clear which
> town (Haste or Schinkel) your ancestor came from.  It could be that the
> files were combined in the records for some practical reason.  I had also
> wondered about the Dom named.  There is a Dom (cathedral) right in the
> Osnabrück city center. There are a few other times in the Osnabrück
> "Gliederung" which combine records from various towns.
> 
> The error about the Osnabrück email address was not yours, as I recall.
> 
> I forget if you said what church your people attended.  If Catholic,
> you may have to go to Osnabrück to do research on your own.  That Dom is
> right by the Catholic archives office in the city center of Osnabrück.
> We've been there. I can give you some hints on that research.
> 
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> on 2/1/06 8:25 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:
> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> The  email address I included for the Osnabrueck area was
>> osnabueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de which I was given by a representative of the
>> Hanover site but it was in error - should have been
>> osnabrueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de.
>> 
>> Sorry for the error.
>> 
>> On the question related to the meaning of the area listed in the search
>> ("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)"), I am still a bit confused. First of
>> all,
>> I don't know what the phrase means. In addition, while Wilfiried clarified
>> that Haste has now been engulfed by Osnabrueck (thanks Wilfried), Schinkel
>> (according to Mapquest) is quite some distance from Osnabrueck so this phrase
>> ("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)" ) does not seem to describe an area.
>> 
>> Any additional clarification would be appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks again to all,
>> 
>> Barney Speckman
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
>> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
>> Sent: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:08:57 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman Search
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Barbara,
>> 
>> Thanks again, I followed up on your leads from the emigrant list search. Here
>> is 
>> what I found out so far.
>> The email address for Osnabruck(SP) records is different than the Hanover
>> email. 
>> The Osnabruck email address is osnabueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de.
>> 
>> As an engineer I just had to try the searches myself so I went through the
>> process you provided (thanks again) and got the same results - how
>> comforting.
>> In doing so, I noticed a few areas where addtional explanation and an example
>> might be helpful so I added both to the explanation and have developed a
>> revised 
>> explanation (word file) for what it is worth. Anyone who wants a copy pls ask
>> for it - it is too large to make it past the 35K limit imposed by this list
>> so
>> I 
>> could not attach it to this email.
>> 
>> Lastly, using mapquest I tried to follow up on the town reference you found
>> in
>> the search which is
>> "Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)" and I find a town named Haste and another
>> named Schinkel and they are quite a disatnce apart so I do not know what this
>> is 
>> referring to. Can anyone help me with this question.
>> 
>> Meanwhile I will make the request for the files at the email address above.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Barney Speckman 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Speckman Search

Date: 2006/02/01 19:21:47
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi Barbara,
 
Thanks for the additional insights - I am anxiously awaiting the records. I am not sure which church the family attended. I am hoping to find their marriage announcements ( pre 1870) in the newspapers and find out that way. Unfortunately, some newspapers srchives were destroyed in the Great SF Earthquake and Fire in 1906. 
 
Thanks again,
 
Barney 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 10:56:18 -0700
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman Search


Hi Barry,

       Since you are ordering records, I think it will become clear which
town (Haste or Schinkel) your ancestor came from.  It could be that the
files were combined in the records for some practical reason.  I had also
wondered about the Dom named.  There is a Dom (cathedral) right in the
Osnabrück city center. There are a few other times in the Osnabrück
"Gliederung" which combine records from various towns.

     The error about the Osnabrück email address was not yours, as I recall.

      I forget if you said what church your people attended.  If Catholic,
you may have to go to Osnabrück to do research on your own.  That Dom is
right by the Catholic archives office in the city center of Osnabrück.
We've been there. I can give you some hints on that research.
   
Barbara



on 2/1/06 8:25 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> The  email address I included for the Osnabrueck area was
> osnabueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de which I was given by a representative of the
> Hanover site but it was in error - should have been
> osnabrueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de.
> 
> Sorry for the error.
> 
> On the question related to the meaning of the area listed in the search
> ("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)"), I am still a bit confused. First of all,
> I don't know what the phrase means. In addition, while Wilfiried clarified
> that Haste has now been engulfed by Osnabrueck (thanks Wilfried), Schinkel
> (according to Mapquest) is quite some distance from Osnabrueck so this phrase
> ("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)" ) does not seem to describe an area.
> 
> Any additional clarification would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks again to all,
> 
> Barney Speckman
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> Sent: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:08:57 -0500
> Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman Search
> 
> 
> Hi Barbara,
> 
> Thanks again, I followed up on your leads from the emigrant list search. Here
> is 
> what I found out so far.
> The email address for Osnabruck(SP) records is different than the Hanover
> email. 
> The Osnabruck email address is osnabueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de.
> 
> As an engineer I just had to try the searches myself so I went through the
> process you provided (thanks again) and got the same results - how comforting.
> In doing so, I noticed a few areas where addtional explanation and an example
> might be helpful so I added both to the explanation and have developed a
> revised 
> explanation (word file) for what it is worth. Anyone who wants a copy pls ask
> for it - it is too large to make it past the 35K limit imposed by this list so
> I 
> could not attach it to this email.
> 
> Lastly, using mapquest I tried to follow up on the town reference you found in
> the search which is
> "Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)" and I find a town named Haste and another
> named Schinkel and they are quite a disatnce apart so I do not know what this
> is 
> referring to. Can anyone help me with this question.
> 
> Meanwhile I will make the request for the files at the email address above.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Barney Speckman 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Re: [HN] Speckman Search

Date: 2006/02/01 19:24:52
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi Barbara,
 
Thanks again, you have solved yet another puzzle for me. If scanning the map would not be too much trouble I would appreciate receiving a copy. 
 
Again, thanks
 
Barney Speckman
 
-----Original Message-----
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:07:51 -0700
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman Search


Barry, 
     I pushed that send button a little too soon.  My super-duper Autoatlas
shows Haste to the northwest of the city of Osnabrück and Schinkel right in
the center of today's Osnabrück.  They are indeed not far apart.
     You're right about mapquest.  It does not show the Schinkel near
Osnabrück at all.   If you like, I could scan the map page from my atlas
and send it to you personally.
Barbara


on 2/1/06 10:56 AM, R&B Stewart at raybarbara(a)comcast.net wrote:

> Hi Barry,
> 
> Since you are ordering records, I think it will become clear which
> town (Haste or Schinkel) your ancestor came from.  It could be that the
> files were combined in the records for some practical reason.  I had also
> wondered about the Dom named.  There is a Dom (cathedral) right in the
> Osnabrück city center. There are a few other times in the Osnabrück
> "Gliederung" which combine records from various towns.
> 
> The error about the Osnabrück email address was not yours, as I recall.
> 
> I forget if you said what church your people attended.  If Catholic,
> you may have to go to Osnabrück to do research on your own.  That Dom is
> right by the Catholic archives office in the city center of Osnabrück.
> We've been there. I can give you some hints on that research.
> 
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> on 2/1/06 8:25 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:
> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> The  email address I included for the Osnabrueck area was
>> osnabueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de which I was given by a representative of the
>> Hanover site but it was in error - should have been
>> osnabrueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de.
>> 
>> Sorry for the error.
>> 
>> On the question related to the meaning of the area listed in the search
>> ("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)"), I am still a bit confused. First of
>> all,
>> I don't know what the phrase means. In addition, while Wilfiried clarified
>> that Haste has now been engulfed by Osnabrueck (thanks Wilfried), Schinkel
>> (according to Mapquest) is quite some distance from Osnabrueck so this phrase
>> ("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)" ) does not seem to describe an area.
>> 
>> Any additional clarification would be appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks again to all,
>> 
>> Barney Speckman
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
>> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
>> Sent: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:08:57 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman Search
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Barbara,
>> 
>> Thanks again, I followed up on your leads from the emigrant list search. Here
>> is 
>> what I found out so far.
>> The email address for Osnabruck(SP) records is different than the Hanover
>> email. 
>> The Osnabruck email address is osnabueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de.
>> 
>> As an engineer I just had to try the searches myself so I went through the
>> process you provided (thanks again) and got the same results - how
>> comforting.
>> In doing so, I noticed a few areas where addtional explanation and an example
>> might be helpful so I added both to the explanation and have developed a
>> revised 
>> explanation (word file) for what it is worth. Anyone who wants a copy pls ask
>> for it - it is too large to make it past the 35K limit imposed by this list
>> so
>> I 
>> could not attach it to this email.
>> 
>> Lastly, using mapquest I tried to follow up on the town reference you found
>> in
>> the search which is
>> "Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)" and I find a town named Haste and another
>> named Schinkel and they are quite a disatnce apart so I do not know what this
>> is 
>> referring to. Can anyone help me with this question.
>> 
>> Meanwhile I will make the request for the files at the email address above.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Barney Speckman 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Wingerberg / kl. Hamberg

Date: 2006/02/01 21:41:16
From: Jan Timphaus <jan(a)timphaus.de>

Hello together,

 

i´m looking for descants of following person:

 

Gerhard Wingerberg  (kleine Hamberg) from Westerholte, Ankum, Germany.

a.	Born round about 1841
b.	Emmigrated 1875 to the United States
c.	Died in age of 99

 

 

He had 2 daughters:

Elisabeth was married to a man with the surname Brooks. She died in age of
106 years.

Wilhelmine was married to a man with the surname Salzer. She died in age of
82 years.

Both died in the USA.

 

 

I´m looking forward to hear something from someone over the world.

 

Best Regards

 

Jan Timphaus


[HN] Gorgasshetten

Date: 2006/02/02 22:07:25
From: CNordic <CNordic(a)aol.com>

Hello, list members

On a old letter I saw, it tells of relatives  in Gorgasshetten, Germany. I 
cannot find this place on my German map or doing a google search. The name was 
printed in good handwriting but I feel the writer may have mispelled. 
    Any help or hints will be appreciated.
Thanks
Richard Christensen
researching Eckhoff, Kielmeier/meyer, Bischoff, in Kingdom of Hanover  

Re: [HN] Gorgasshetten

Date: 2006/02/03 01:32:34
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:07:12 EST
 CNordic(a)aol.com wrote:
Hello, list members

On a old letter I saw, it tells of relatives in Gorgasshetten, Germany. I cannot find this place on my German map or doing a google search. The name was printed in good handwriting but I feel the writer may have mispelled. Any help or hints will be appreciated.
Thanks
Richard Christensen
researching Eckhoff, Kielmeier/meyer, Bischoff, in Kingdom of Hanover ______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Gorgasshetten

Date: 2006/02/03 02:21:20
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Richard,

      I tried Gergastetten and Google suggested Geradstetten.  It seems to
me that "stetten" is more likely on the end of a word than "shetten".  I
don't speak or write German so I could be way off.  Is this town supposed to
be in Hannover?  If so, then Geradstetten isn't right, because it is in the
Stuttgart area.  When the Germans on the list wake up in the morning they'll
probably be able to figure it out.

Good luck! 
Barbara 



on 2/2/06 2:07 PM, CNordic(a)aol.com at CNordic(a)aol.com wrote:

> Hello, list members
> 
> On a old letter I saw, it tells of relatives  in Gorgasshetten, Germany. I
> cannot find this place on my German map or doing a google search. The name was
> printed in good handwriting but I feel the writer may have mispelled.
> Any help or hints will be appreciated.
> Thanks
> Richard Christensen
> researching Eckhoff, Kielmeier/meyer, Bischoff, in Kingdom of Hanover
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Gorgasshetten

Date: 2006/02/03 12:33:48
From: Kerstin Mischke <kerstinksm(a)yahoo.de>

Hello Richard,

maybe it could be "Georgshuette".

The site www.postleitzahlen.de lists nearly every town in Germany. In "Ort/PLZ" you can search combinations with *, maybe you can find a village that fits.

If you need any help send me a mail.

Best regards
Kerstin

Meine Suche: Bisler, Schlüter, Hage, Busse

----- Original Message ----- From: <CNordic(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: [HN] Gorgasshetten


Hello, list members

On a old letter I saw, it tells of relatives  in Gorgasshetten, Germany. I
cannot find this place on my German map or doing a google search. The name was
printed in good handwriting but I feel the writer may have mispelled.
   Any help or hints will be appreciated.
Thanks
Richard Christensen
researching Eckhoff, Kielmeier/meyer, Bischoff, in Kingdom of Hanover
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


	

	
		
___________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

AW: [HN] Gorgasshetten

Date: 2006/02/03 13:13:11
From: Jan Timphaus <jan(a)timphaus.de>

Hallo Kerstin,
hast du Verwandte in Bersenbrück?
Gruß
Jan Timphaus

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] Im Auftrag von Kerstin Mischke
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2006 12:34
An: Hannover-L
Betreff: Re: [HN] Gorgasshetten

Hello Richard,

maybe it could be "Georgshuette".

The site www.postleitzahlen.de lists nearly every town in Germany. In 
"Ort/PLZ" you can search combinations with *, maybe you can find a village 
that fits.

If you need any help send me a mail.

Best regards
Kerstin

Meine Suche: Bisler, Schlüter, Hage, Busse

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <CNordic(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: [HN] Gorgasshetten


> Hello, list members
>
> On a old letter I saw, it tells of relatives  in Gorgasshetten, Germany. I


> cannot find this place on my German map or doing a google search. The name

> was
> printed in good handwriting but I feel the writer may have mispelled.
>    Any help or hints will be appreciated.
> Thanks
> Richard Christensen
> researching Eckhoff, Kielmeier/meyer, Bischoff, in Kingdom of Hanover
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 


	

	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Speckman Search

Date: 2006/02/03 14:27:36
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi,
I've come late into this discussion late but the modern confusion about
boundaries,  specifically both church parish boundaries and old village
boundaries which can sometimes cross into each others patches sounds
familiar.

I lived in a village 'S' on the western side which had a 12th century church which was responsible for the villagers and farmers in its parish. An hour's walk north of that village was another village 'H' which also had a 12th century church. It so happened that although I lived in 'S' my home was in the ancient church parish boundaries of 'H'. Both those church parishes sent their records to the Cathedral dioces market town of 'O' which was nearly a day's walk away.

In the 20th century the village I lived in collected all the civil records of who lived in the village houses for census purposes and taxes, but I don't know if this would be the case a century earlier.

Good luck,
Rena
==
Hi Barry,
      Since you are ordering records, I think it will become clear which
town (Haste or Schinkel) your ancestor came from.  It could be that the
files were combined in the records for some practical reason.  I had also
wondered about the Dom named.  There is a Dom (cathedral) right in the
Osnabrück city center. There are a few other times in the Osnabrück
"Gliederung" which combine records from various towns.
Barbara

On the question related to the meaning of the area listed in the search
("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)"), I am still a bit confused. First of
all,
I don't know what the phrase means. In addition, while Wilfiried clarified
that Haste has now been engulfed by Osnabrueck (thanks Wilfried), Schinkel
(according to Mapquest) is quite some distance from Osnabrueck so this
phrase
("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)" ) does not seem to describe an area.

Any additional clarification would be appreciated.
Thanks again to all,
Barney Speckman



[HN] Fix in Hildesheim

Date: 2006/02/03 14:31:43
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>

Liebe Hannoveraner

Ich habe heute eine Kopie aus Deutschland erhalten, darauf ein Nachname wo
ich nicht sicher vob bin. Obwohl mir Sütterlin nicht unbekannt ist, lese ich
"Fix" gibt es so eine Nachname? Hat einer von euch vielleicht Daten zu
dieser Name in Hildesheim zwischen 1780 und 1830?

Besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss

--
David Müldner

Re: [HN] Bisler-Busse-Hage-Schlueter

Date: 2006/02/03 14:33:11
From: Kerstin Mischke <kerstinksm(a)yahoo.de>

Hallo Jan,

soweit ich weiß, nicht. Allerdings weiß ich für Hage/ Schlueter nur wenig, bis zu meinen Großeltern, da stehe ich noch am Anfang, Kreis Schaumburg, (Hannover soll auch mit dabei sein).

Bisler/ Busse sind Deutsche, die aus Polen vertrieben wurden und überwiegend nach Norddeutschland gekommen sind. Sie sollen auch aus Norddeutschland nach Polen gewandert sein, aber hier habe ich noch nichts verbindliches, ich bin erst um 1800 rum.

Wer wohnt denn in Bersenbrück? :-))))

Viele Grüße
Kerstin

Meine Suche: Bisler, Schlüter, Hage, Busse

	

	
		
___________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

AW: [HN] Bisler-Busse-Hage-Schlueter

Date: 2006/02/03 14:41:00
From: Jan Timphaus <jan(a)timphaus.de>

Hallo  Kerstin,

in Bersenbrück ist eine mir bekannte Familie Mische ansässig!

Gruß

Jan


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] Im Auftrag von Kerstin Mischke
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2006 14:31
An: Hannover-L
Betreff: Re: [HN] Bisler-Busse-Hage-Schlueter

Hallo Jan,

soweit ich weiß, nicht. Allerdings weiß ich für Hage/ Schlueter nur wenig, 
bis zu meinen Großeltern, da stehe ich noch am Anfang, Kreis Schaumburg, 
(Hannover soll auch mit dabei sein).

Bisler/ Busse sind Deutsche, die aus Polen vertrieben wurden und überwiegend

nach Norddeutschland gekommen sind. Sie sollen auch aus Norddeutschland nach

Polen gewandert sein, aber hier habe ich noch nichts verbindliches, ich bin 
erst um 1800 rum.

Wer wohnt denn in Bersenbrück? :-))))

Viele Grüße
Kerstin

Meine Suche: Bisler, Schlüter, Hage, Busse 


	

	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Volbrecht in Hildesheim

Date: 2006/02/03 14:59:19
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>

Liebe Hannoveraner!

Ich bin auf der Suche nach weitere Daten der Familie Volbrecht in
Hildesheim. Ich habe dort am 9.7.1820 Johanne Magdalene Louise Volbrecht als
Taufpatin bei ein meiner Vormutter.

Besten Dank im voraus für jeden Hinweis,

mit freundlichem Gruss

--
David Müldner

[HN] STEIN in Hildesheim

Date: 2006/02/03 15:04:29
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>

Liebe hannoveraner!

ich bin auf der Suche nach weitere Daten über Catharine Margarethe Vortmann,
geborene Stein in Hildesheim, zwischen 1780 und 1830. Sie ist als
Grossmutter mütterlicherseits bei eine Taufe meine Vormutter genannt worden
in Juli 1820.

mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss

David Müldner

[HN] LOHMEIJER in Hildesheim

Date: 2006/02/03 15:07:00
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>

Liebe Hannoveraner!

Ich bin auf der Suche nach Daten der Eleonora Elisabeth Lohmeijer,
geborene... in Hildesheim. Sie war, wie vorige Taufpatin bei ein meiner
Vormutter in 1820.

mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss

David Müldner

Re: [HN] Fix in Hildesheim

Date: 2006/02/03 16:49:36
From: Wilfried . Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"David Muldner" <david.muldner(a)gmail.com> schrieb:
> Liebe Hannoveraner
> 
> Ich habe heute eine Kopie aus Deutschland erhalten, darauf ein Nachname wo
> ich nicht sicher vob bin. Obwohl mir Sütterlin nicht unbekannt ist, lese ich
> "Fix" gibt es so eine Nachname? Hat einer von euch vielleicht Daten zu
> dieser Name in Hildesheim zwischen 1780 und 1830?
> 

Hallo Herr Muldner,

den Namen Fix gibt es in Deutschland. Meine Telefon-CD weist etwa 1300 mal den Namen nach, allerdings keinen in Hildesheim.

Gruß
Wilfried Petersen



Re: [HN] Gorgasshetten

Date: 2006/02/03 18:44:41
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Richard:

I have been having server problems and all I managed to do yesterday is send your own message back to the list without my response.

You stated that the handwriting in the letter was quite good. As a result, I would say that the spelling was probably correct. However,,,, I bet that what you are seeing is not what the author wrote.

Some examples: The high case G in older script German is often a large lower case g. In some cases a high case German script I can appear to be identical to an English high case G.

Also when a double ss occurs after an vowel, a high case B is normally used in place of the ss. I say high case B, because it normally looks more like an B instead of an ß, which is the character for the ss.

I suspected that you would receive a number of responses on the List giving you alternative spellings which may be the town you are looking for. That has happened. One of them may be right.

You may want to scan/fax a copy of the letter to someone who can decipher the spelling.

You will not be able to to that on the List, as attachments are normally deleted to prevent executable code (viruses worms etc.) from contaminating the List.

Good Luck,

Gale

On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:07:12 EST
 CNordic(a)aol.com wrote:
Hello, list members

On a old letter I saw, it tells of relatives in Gorgasshetten, Germany. I cannot find this place on my German map or doing a google search. The name was printed in good handwriting but I feel the writer may have mispelled. Any help or hints will be appreciated.
Thanks
Richard Christensen
researching Eckhoff, Kielmeier/meyer, Bischoff, in Kingdom of Hanover ______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Kirchenbuch Breese und Horst

Date: 2006/02/03 18:46:36
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>

Liebe Hannoveraner,

könnte einer von euch mir sagen, wo ich die Kirchenbücher von Breese bei
Dannenberg und Horst bei Neustadt im Rbge. finde?

Besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss!

--
David Müldner

Re: [HN] Kirchenbuch Breese und Horst

Date: 2006/02/03 19:03:40
From: Wilfried . Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"David Muldner" <david.muldner(a)gmail.com> schrieb:
> Liebe Hannoveraner,
> 
> könnte einer von euch mir sagen, wo ich die Kirchenbücher von Breese bei
> Dannenberg und Horst bei Neustadt im Rbge. finde?
> 
Hallo David,

die Kirchenbücher der E.-luth. Landeskirche Hannovers, also auch die von Breese und Horst liegen als Microfiches im Kirchenbuchamt Hannover:

www.kirche-hannover.de/kirchenbuchamt/

Gruß
Wilfried (Petersen)






Re: [HN] Speckman Search

Date: 2006/02/03 23:05:04
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Rena,
Thanks for the clarification,
Barney Speckman 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:26:52 -0000
Subject: [HN] Speckman Search


Hi, 
I've come late into this discussion late but the modern confusion about 
boundaries, specifically both church parish boundaries and old village 
boundaries which can sometimes cross into each others patches sounds 
familiar. 
 
I lived in a village 'S' on the western side which had a 12th century church which was responsible for the villagers and farmers in its parish. An hour's walk north of that village was another village 'H' which also had a 12th century church. It so happened that although I lived in 'S' my home was in the ancient church parish boundaries of 'H'. Both those church parishes sent their records to the Cathedral dioces market town of 'O' which was nearly a day's walk away. 
 
In the 20th century the village I lived in collected all the civil records of who lived in the village houses for census purposes and taxes, but I don't know if this would be the case a century earlier. 
 
Good luck, 
Rena 
== 
Hi Barry, 
  Since you are ordering records, I think it will become clear which 
town (Haste or Schinkel) your ancestor came from. It could be that the 
files were combined in the records for some practical reason. I had also 
wondered about the Dom named. There is a Dom (cathedral) right in the 
Osnabrück city center. There are a few other times in the Osnabrück 
"Gliederung" which combine records from various towns. 
Barbara 
 
> On the question related to the meaning of the area listed in the search 
> ("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)"), I am still a bit confused. First of 
> all, 
> I don't know what the phrase means. In addition, while Wilfiried clarified 
> that Haste has now been engulfed by Osnabrueck (thanks Wilfried), Schinkel 
> (according to Mapquest) is quite some distance from Osnabrueck so this 
> phrase 
> ("Kirchspiel Dom (Haste, Schinkel)" ) does not seem to describe an area. 
> 
> Any additional clarification would be appreciated. 
> Thanks again to all, 
> Barney Speckman 
 
______________________________________________ 
 
Hannover-L mailing list 
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

Re: [HN] STEIN in Hildesheim

Date: 2006/02/03 23:19:29
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Dear Hannoverers,
I speak very little German so I have been using a web based translator at the website 
below. I have taken David's email and translated it using the web translator. 
How did it do? Does anyone know of a better web translator? 
Thanks for your help,
Barney Speckman
Ich spreche sehr kleines Deutsch, damit ich einen Gewebe auf der Basis Übersetzer an 
der Website unten benutzt habe. Ich habe die E-Mail von David genommen und habe es 
übersetzt, der den Gewebeübersetzer benutzt. Wie hat es gemacht? Weiß jemand von einem 
besseren Gewebeübersetzer?
http://german.about.com/library/bltransl_05.htm
 
Liebe hannoveraner!
Dear hannoveraner!  
 
ich bin auf der Suche nach weitere Daten über Catharine Margarethe Vortmann,
geborene Stein in Hildesheim, zwischen 1780 und 1830. Sie ist als
Grossmutter mütterlicherseits bei eine Taufe meine Vormutter genannt worden
in Juli 1820.
I am on the search for further data over Catharine Margarethe Vortmann, born stone in 
Hildesheim, between 1780 and 1830. it was named as a grandmother mütterlicherseits in a
baptism my before mother in July  1820.  
 
mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss
with best thanks to and friendly greeting
David Müldner
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:04:22 +0100
Subject: [HN] STEIN in Hildesheim


Liebe hannoveraner!

ich bin auf der Suche nach weitere Daten über Catharine Margarethe Vortmann,
geborene Stein in Hildesheim, zwischen 1780 und 1830. Sie ist als
Grossmutter mütterlicherseits bei eine Taufe meine Vormutter genannt worden
in Juli 1820.

mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss

David Müldner
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Re: [HN] STEIN in Hildesheim

Date: 2006/02/04 01:18:58
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

lol. The results? About what you can expect. If you can get the gist of it, you're ahead of the curve. But tread lightly here, pretty much always. To wit, same paragraph:

I am on the search for further data over Catharine Margarethe Vortmann, born stone in
Hildesheim, between 1780 and 1830.

Not bad. Except Stein ought not be translated in this case. ;)

it was named as a grandmother mütterlicherseits in a baptism my before mother in July 1820.

On the other hand, not so good, eh. :)

There are a number of similar electronic (artificial intelligence) translators, all with about the same "speed" and smarts. They're certainly better than nothing and will put you in the ballpark generally, but remain far from perfect (as noted above). The best translator is learning sufficient command of the language, or having the right friend. ;)

Now that said, I'm sure David Müldner thanks you.

Jb

From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: [HN] STEIN in Hildesheim
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:19:14 -0500

Dear Hannoverers,
I speak very little German so I have been using a web based translator at the website below. I have taken David's email and translated it using the web translator.
How did it do? Does anyone know of a better web translator?
Thanks for your help,
Barney Speckman

Ich spreche sehr kleines Deutsch, damit ich einen Gewebe auf der Basis Übersetzer an der Website unten benutzt habe. Ich habe die E-Mail von David genommen und habe es übersetzt, der den Gewebeübersetzer benutzt. Wie hat es gemacht? Weiß jemand von einem
besseren Gewebeübersetzer?
http://german.about.com/library/bltransl_05.htm

Liebe hannoveraner!
Dear hannoveraner!

ich bin auf der Suche nach weitere Daten über Catharine Margarethe Vortmann,
geborene Stein in Hildesheim, zwischen 1780 und 1830. Sie ist als
Grossmutter mütterlicherseits bei eine Taufe meine Vormutter genannt worden
in Juli 1820.
I am on the search for further data over Catharine Margarethe Vortmann, born stone in Hildesheim, between 1780 and 1830. it was named as a grandmother mütterlicherseits in a
baptism my before mother in July  1820.

mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss
with best thanks to and friendly greeting
David Müldner

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement


[HN] Deppe

Date: 2006/02/04 04:11:55
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

DEPPE, Heinrich
Heinrich (Deceased) & Maria HOLTGREIFE
BODE, Gertrude
Johann & Gertrude LUECKE
Francis Bode, Carl SARTORY, Margretha Deppe & Mathilda OTKE
8 Sep 1891

Shrine of St. Joseph Marriage , St. Louis, Missouri, USA. (Thank you Gloria)

St. Louis Post Dispatch 7/19/1947

Deppe, Henry (Harry) 8334 Jennings rd. , Fri., July 18, 1947, dearly beloved husband of Marie C. Deppe (nee Lanwermeyer?) dear father of Marilyn E. , Gerald P. and the late Carmela and Norbert Deppe, dear dson of Gertrude and the late Henry Deppe, our dear brother, brother in law, uncle and cousin.

Funeral Mon., July 21. 8:30 a.m., from BROMSWEIG & SON fUNERAL hOME, 476 West Florissant st., to Corpus Christi Church. Internment Calvary Cemetery. Mr. Deppe was a member of Holy Name Society of Corpus Christi Parish and Beneviolence Society of Holy Cross Parish; also Northwestern Business Men's Assn.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Came across obituary as was on same page as a distant relative of mine.

Other obits on this page include:

Oliver Hormann

Elizabeth Stemmler (nee Michell)

John J. Stephen

Wilhelmina C. K. Stocklas (nee Knoot)

Albert G. Wall

Hubert Witte

Martin W. Heinz

Eugenia Gottschlick-Poser (nee Meyer)

Not complete for the day but on page I photocopied.

Barbie-Lew
St. Louis

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


[HN] I am a Busse

Date: 2006/02/04 04:52:39
From: tbcsbcs <tbcsbcs(a)hotmail.com>

Hi,
Kommt meine Familie von Bakede, Hannover. Sie kommen US in 1848.

Johann Friedrich Busse was born April 22, 1800 in Hannover, Germany.
Johann died in 1877 near Chicago, Illinois.

He married Johanna Katz on November 02, 1822 in Hannover, Germany.
Johanna Katz was born May 19, 1803 in Hannover, Germany.
Johanna died in 1878 near Chicago, Illinois.



Johann (Friedrich) and Johanna had the following children in Bakede:
1.Christian Friedrich Busse was born August 10, 1823

2. Friedrich Busse was born November 02, 1826

3. Henry Busse was born May 27, 1829

4. Louise Busse was born March 24, 1833.

5. Louis Busse was born November 04, 1837.

6. Johanna Busse was born July 03, 1840.





----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Timphaus" <jan(a)timphaus.de>
To: "'Hannover-L'" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 5:40 AM
Subject: AW: [HN] Bisler-Busse-Hage-Schlueter


Hallo  Kerstin,

in Bersenbrück ist eine mir bekannte Familie Mische ansässig!

Gruß

Jan


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] Im Auftrag von Kerstin Mischke
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2006 14:31
An: Hannover-L
Betreff: Re: [HN] Bisler-Busse-Hage-Schlueter

Hallo Jan,

soweit ich weiß, nicht. Allerdings weiß ich für Hage/ Schlueter nur wenig,
bis zu meinen Großeltern, da stehe ich noch am Anfang, Kreis Schaumburg,
(Hannover soll auch mit dabei sein).

Bisler/ Busse sind Deutsche, die aus Polen vertrieben wurden und überwiegend

nach Norddeutschland gekommen sind. Sie sollen auch aus Norddeutschland nach

Polen gewandert sein, aber hier habe ich noch nichts verbindliches, ich bin
erst um 1800 rum.

Wer wohnt denn in Bersenbrück? :-))))

Viele Grüße
Kerstin

Meine Suche: Bisler, Schlüter, Hage, Busse






___________________________________________________________
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Edwardsville, Madison, Illinois USA News Tidbits - HannoverL Relatives Perhaps?

Date: 2006/02/04 04:56:38
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Edwardsville Intelligencer
Edwardsville, Madison, Illinois, USA.
12/26/1935

Mr. and Mrs. Hilbert Dustmann and Norman Wilharm were St. Louis visitors Friday.

Dr. Philllips of Granite City called on John Grahams Wednesday.

Mr. and Mrs. Edward Gusewelle and daughter spent Friday with relativs in Alton.

Mr. and Mrs. Emil Kuethe and sons were Edwardsville visitors Saturday.

Mr. and Mrs. Fred Welshaupt and family were Worden visitors Saturday evening.

Mr. and Mrs. Louis Pape and son were Edwardsville visitors Saturday.

Mr. and Mrs. Carl Mueller and son Floyd of CreveCour, Mo., Mr. and Mrs. Arnold Mueller and twin daughters Gean? and Ganet and Albert Graser of St. Louis County, Mr. and Mrs. Elmer Moritz of Alhambra spent Sunday with Mr. and Mrs. Wilber Moritz.

Mrs. Mildred Stiegemeyer and Fred Ehrhart of St. Louis spent Sunday here with relatives.

C. W. Engelke spent several days with relatives in St. Louis.

Dr. Herman Neitert of St. Louis, Mr. and Mrs. Fred Engelke and family of Hamel spent sunday with Mr. and Mrs. Edward Engelke.

Miss Esther Kuethe of Alton spent Sunday with home folks here.

Arthur G. Schwalb and Edward Engelke made a business trip to St. Louis Monday.

Laverne Dauderman, a student at Elmhurst College is spending the Christmas holidays with his parents.

Mrs. Alfred Kaufman and son Marvin Misses Emerald and Ardell Wilhaber spent Saturday in Jerseyville.

Robert Stickler, a student at the Univerity of Illinois is spending the Christmas holidays with his parents Mr. and Mrs. C. A. Stickler.

Mr. and Mrs. William Disselhorst and daughter Hilda, Mr. and Mrs. George Henschen and children visited at the home of Mr. and Mrs. Edward Braundmeier Sunday.

Mr. and Mrs. Harry E. Gaertner and daughter Ruth spent visited relatives in Worden Sunday.

George Schuette, a student at Elmhurst College is spending the Christmas holidays with his parents, Mr. and Mrs. H. Schuette.

Mrs. Lola Windisch who is attending school in St. Lous is visiting her grandparents Mr. and Mrs. Edward Graf.

Miss Merle L. Dauderman who attends school in St. Louis visiting her parents Mr. and Mrs. Walter J. Dauderman.

Mr. and Mrs. Edwin Sander and son Leroy visited at the home of Mrs. Henry Sander Sunday.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


[HN] Sassenberg + Schwartzendahl

Date: 2006/02/04 06:16:32
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Came across the following:

Marriage
21 May 1859
Antonia Sassenberg - Antoin Schwartzendahl
(Bride of Prussia)
Osage County (Missouri) Book A/B/Index

Marriage
22 Oct. 1874
Shrine of St. Joseph Church
St. Louis, Missouri, USA.

HUHN, Adolph
Anselm (Deceased) & Elisabetha
SCHWARZENTHAL, Juliana
Anton & (Deceased) Elisabeth WESHEMANN ?
Heinrich POLHANS & Elisabeth Schwarzenthal


(source...Gloria Detloff online transcriptions)

Barbie-Lew

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


Re: [HN] I am a Busse

Date: 2006/02/04 09:29:01
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

Bakede is a part of the town "Bad Münder". Located about 40 km or 30 miles south-west from Hannover city.
The phone directory of Bad Münder listed 13 Busse addresses, no in Bakede village.
Church since 1277: Ev.-luth, St. Nicolai-Kirchengemeinde

Internet-address: http://www.bakede.de/

Good luck,
Werner Honkomp


> Hi,
> Kommt meine Familie von Bakede, Hannover. Sie kommen US in 1848.

> Johann Friedrich Busse was born April 22, 1800 in Hannover, Germany.
> Johann died in 1877 near Chicago, Illinois.

> He married Johanna Katz on November 02, 1822 in Hannover, Germany.
> Johanna Katz was born May 19, 1803 in Hannover, Germany.
> Johanna died in 1878 near Chicago, Illinois.



> Johann (Friedrich) and Johanna had the following children in Bakede:
> 1.Christian Friedrich Busse was born August 10, 1823

> 2. Friedrich Busse was born November 02, 1826

> 3. Henry Busse was born May 27, 1829

> 4. Louise Busse was born March 24, 1833.

> 5. Louis Busse was born November 04, 1837.

> 6. Johanna Busse was born July 03, 1840.





> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jan Timphaus" <jan(a)timphaus.de>
> To: "'Hannover-L'" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 5:40 AM
> Subject: AW: [HN] Bisler-Busse-Hage-Schlueter


> Hallo  Kerstin,

> in Bersenbrück ist eine mir bekannte Familie Mische ansässig!

> Gruß

> Jan


> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
> [mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] Im Auftrag von Kerstin Mischke
> Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2006 14:31
> An: Hannover-L
> Betreff: Re: [HN] Bisler-Busse-Hage-Schlueter

> Hallo Jan,

> soweit ich weiß, nicht. Allerdings weiß ich für Hage/ Schlueter nur wenig,
> bis zu meinen Großeltern, da stehe ich noch am Anfang, Kreis Schaumburg,
> (Hannover soll auch mit dabei sein).

> Bisler/ Busse sind Deutsche, die aus Polen vertrieben wurden und
> überwiegend

> nach Norddeutschland gekommen sind. Sie sollen auch aus Norddeutschland
> nach

> Polen gewandert sein, aber hier habe ich noch nichts verbindliches, ich
> bin
> erst um 1800 rum.

> Wer wohnt denn in Bersenbrück? :-))))

> Viele Grüße
> Kerstin

> Meine Suche: Bisler, Schlüter, Hage, Busse






> ___________________________________________________________
> Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
> ______________________________________________

> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

> ______________________________________________

> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> ______________________________________________

> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


RE: [HN] Adolph Schasse's descendants

Date: 2006/02/04 10:10:15
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Helmut,

Came across this marriage record.

Shrine of St. Joseph Catholic Church
St. Louis, Mo. USA

SACHS*, Louis (Lutheran)
(Widower of Martha WEST*)
Not listed
ZIEHL, Louisa (Born SCHULTZ)
(Widow of Carl Ziehl)
Not listed
Sinatures - Bride, groom, John JUERGENS & Mary PERRY
4 May 1892


I found my Anna Potrafke-Pieper on the 1900 census is enumerated as servent to a Henry West family in DeCatur, Illinois. She later married H. F. Pieper. H.F. Pieper was listed as "Uncle" to Edmund H.C. Sahs and paid his passage to the U.S.

Edmund H.C. Sahs was my grandfather.

My theory is that Anna Potrafke-Pieper was the sister of Henriette Potrafke-Sahs my GGM. Henriette Potrafke-Sahs was the mother of Edmund Carl Heinrich Sahs.

My mother told me that my grandfather had cousins in Wood River, Monroe, Illinois. Portraits and Biograpical Record of Randoph, Perry, Jackson and Monroe Counties, Illinois published 1894 by Chicago Biographical Publishing Company.

In the text is a bio of an H.C. Sasse, son of Adoph**....

Interestingly, there is chauncery file of a property dispute between a Fred Pieper*, Benjamen West* and Gottlieb Nunnenkamp, Madison County Illinois circa 1860.


Barbie-Lew
St. Louis

P.S. Data may not be of any value.  Made post for that very slim chance.


From: "Helmut Hoffmeister" <helmut-h(a)muenster.de>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] Adolph Schasse's descendants
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 16:45:12 +0100

Hello,
are there list members who are researching descendants of Adolph Schasse? A.S. lived in Pawnee City, Nebraska, and emigrated from Goexe, Kongdom of Hannover. Please contact me.
Helmut (of Muenster, Westphalia)
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


[HN] Abraham Classen Schade aus Papenburg

Date: 2006/02/04 11:18:53
From: Dirk Unterbrink <dirk(a)unterbrink.net>

Hallo Liste,
 
ich suche nähere Angaben (Taufe, Heirat) zu Abraham Classen Schade. In den
Kirchenbucheinträgen der Kath. Kirche zu Scharrel gibt es Hinweise, dass er
aus Papenburg gebürtig sei. Abraham Classen starb am 29.09.1880 in
Neuscharrel im Alter von 84 Jahren. Er wurde also ca. 1796 geboren. Ich
vermute, dass er auch in Papenburg getraut wurde, da seine Heirat nicht in
den Kirchenbüchern von Scharrel vermerkt ist. Seine Ehefrau war Gesina
Strohfeld. Sie müssten um 1817 geheiratet haben. Ihr erstes Kind Nicolaus
Schade müsste demnach um 1817 geboren sein.
 
Weiss jemand etwas über die Familie Schade aus Papenburg?
Kann jemand Angaben zu dieser Familie machen?
 
Über jeden Hinweis würde ich mich sehr freuen.
 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Dirk Unterbrink

[HN] Stuchwish(-wisch)

Date: 2006/02/04 17:54:13
From: jerry <malbergen(a)yahoo.com>


Ich suche nach Informationen ungefähr:
  Frederick Stuchwish getragenes Hannover 1794-5,
verbundenes Louisa getragenes Hannover 1799
 Kinder getragenes in Hannover, Deutschland
 Johann Henrich     1831
 Frederick          1835
 Rudolph            1835-36
 Wilhelm(William)   1838
 Anna               1839 
 Lousia             1843 
Ausgewandert über 1844 -1849

 Danke,  Jerry
  

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

AW: [HN] Schrader

Date: 2006/02/04 18:35:50
From: Ruth . Ohlhoff <Ruth.Ohlhoff(a)t-online.de>

Hi Gail

I think "your" Heinrich Schrader was not born in Watzum. I have a copy of
the year 1827 and there was not a birth on the 9 June and I did´nt found any
Heinrich Schrader around this time ab Watzum.

Ruth

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net]Im Auftrag von Gail Schrader
Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. Januar 2006 21:01
An: Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
Betreff: [HN] Schrader


Hi Warner,

My Heinrich Schrader was born 9 June 1827 in Watzum, Dauchy of Braunschweig.
He emmigrated by way of NYC by himself and my best guess is that he was in
his early 20"s.  He then went immediately to Milwaukee where he married on 4
Aug 1857.  He then moved to Rice County, Minnesota where he farmed until his
death in 1885.

So that is not the right Schrader.  It has always been said that he came to
the US in 1854 but I have not been able to find him.

Barb - most of the records are LDS records but I have even seen it from
other sites.  Next time I see a site like that I will make note of it and
let the group know.  It just seems strange that the Hannover area is always
missing.

Gail
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Suche Bedeutung der Nachname TIETZ

Date: 2006/02/05 12:29:33
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>

Liebe Hannoveraner,

Erstens möchte ich Herr Petersen für seine Auskunfte der letzten Tage
herzlichst danken.

wie bekannt, befasse ich mich mit der Forschung nach meiner Ahnen Müldner.
Die Bedeutung der Nachname hat man für mich in Der grosse Duden gefunden.

ich bin aber jetzt auf der Suche nach der Bedeutung/Herkunft der Nachname
TIETZ. Könnte einer von Euch mich dabei behilflich sein?

Besten Dank im voraus schönen Sonntag!

David

Mulde: Mittelhochdeutsch mulde "längliches, halbrudes Gefäß, Mehl, Backtrog"
ist wahrscheinlich umgebildet aus gleichbed. mhd  mu[o]lter, das auf ahd
muoltera, muhltra beruht. Das althochdeutsche Wort ist entlehnt aus
lateinische Mulctra "Melkkübel", eine Bildung zum Verb mulgere "melken"(vgl.
*melken*). Die Verwendung des ahd Wortes im Sinne von "Mulde, Trog" erklärt
sich daraus, daß die früher üblichen Melkgefäße eine längliche,
muldenähnliche Gestalt hatten. Im Nhd wird "Mulde"auch übertragen im Sinne
von muldenformige Vertiefung (im Erdreich, Stein, Flöz),
"Talsenkung"gebraucht. Der mhd Form "mulde"enstpricht mnd "Molde, Molle,
worauf berlin. Molle w. "Bierglas, Glas Bier"beruht.
[1]<http://mail.google.com/mail/?view=page&name=gp&ver=3403410b768567d8#_ftn1>

------------------------------

[1]<http://mail.google.com/mail/?view=page&name=gp&ver=3403410b768567d8#_ftnref1>Der
große Duden, Bd 7.
S.454. Bibliographisches Institut Mannheim 1963

Re: [HN] STEIN in Hildesheim

Date: 2006/02/05 12:46:37
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Barney:

I can not tell you how well the e-translator worked, but I do have some insight as to how they work. The free ones available on the Web translate words, not sentence structure.

There are others which cost??? (I have no names) and you can install on your computer. They operate much like some of the better spell checkers which offer various suggestions based on the English/American rules of sentence structure, and other languages.

These programs help you write correctly, but can not correctly translate/or material which was not written using proper rules of sentence structure.

At this point, I feel that it just might be simpler to learn the language--if I ever get around to it.

Still fumbling too,

Gale



On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:19:14 -0500
 bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:
Dear Hannoverers,
I speak very little German so I have been using a web based translator at the website below. I have taken David's email and translated it using the web translator. How did it do? Does anyone know of a better web translator? Thanks for your help,
Barney Speckman
Ich spreche sehr kleines Deutsch, damit ich einen Gewebe auf der Basis Übersetzer an der Website unten benutzt habe. Ich habe die E-Mail von David genommen und habe es übersetzt, der den Gewebeübersetzer benutzt. Wie hat es gemacht? Weiß jemand von einem besseren Gewebeübersetzer?
http://german.about.com/library/bltransl_05.htm

Liebe hannoveraner!
Dear hannoveraner! ich bin auf der Suche nach weitere Daten über Catharine Margarethe Vortmann, geborene Stein in Hildesheim, zwischen 1780 und 1830. Sie ist als Grossmutter mütterlicherseits bei eine Taufe meine Vormutter genannt worden
in Juli 1820.
I am on the search for further data over Catharine Margarethe Vortmann, born stone in Hildesheim, between 1780 and 1830. it was named as a grandmother mütterlicherseits in a baptism my before mother in July 1820.
mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss
with best thanks to and friendly greeting
David Müldner



-----Original Message-----
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:04:22 +0100
Subject: [HN] STEIN in Hildesheim


Liebe hannoveraner!

ich bin auf der Suche nach weitere Daten über Catharine Margarethe Vortmann, geborene Stein in Hildesheim, zwischen 1780 und 1830. Sie ist als Grossmutter mütterlicherseits bei eine Taufe meine Vormutter genannt worden
in Juli 1820.

mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss

David Müldner
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] STEIN in Hildesheim

Date: 2006/02/05 12:51:18
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>

Cant we switch the topic to translating or something....to stop keep me
hoping I finally get some details on th Stein-family in Hildesheim? That
would be great,

David


On 2/3/06, gale(a)bosche.info <gale(a)bosche.info> wrote:
>
> Hi Barney:
>
> I can not tell you how well the e-translator worked, but I
> do have some insight as to how they work.  The free ones
> available on the Web translate words, not sentence
> structure.
>
> There are others which cost??? (I have no names) and you
> can install on your computer.  They operate much like some
> of the better spell checkers which offer various
> suggestions based on the English/American rules of
> sentence structure, and other languages.
>
> These programs help you write correctly, but can not
> correctly translate/or material which was not written
> using proper rules of sentence structure.
>
> At this point, I feel that it just might be simpler to
> learn the language--if I ever get around to it.
>
> Still fumbling too,
>
> Gale
>
>
>
> On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:19:14 -0500
> bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:
> > Dear Hannoverers,
> > I speak very little German so I have been using a web
> >based translator at the website
> > below. I have taken David's email and translated it
> >using the web translator.
> > How did it do? Does anyone know of a better web
> >translator?
> > Thanks for your help,
> > Barney Speckman
> > Ich spreche sehr kleines Deutsch, damit ich einen Gewebe
> >auf der Basis Übersetzer an
> > der Website unten benutzt habe. Ich habe die E-Mail von
> >David genommen und habe es
> > übersetzt, der den Gewebeübersetzer benutzt. Wie hat es
> >gemacht? Weiß jemand von einem
> > besseren Gewebeübersetzer?
> > http://german.about.com/library/bltransl_05.htm
> >
> > Liebe hannoveraner!
> > Dear hannoveraner!
> >
> > ich bin auf der Suche nach weitere Daten über Catharine
> >Margarethe Vortmann,
> > geborene Stein in Hildesheim, zwischen 1780 und 1830.
> >Sie ist als
> > Grossmutter mütterlicherseits bei eine Taufe meine
> >Vormutter genannt worden
> > in Juli 1820.
> > I am on the search for further data over Catharine
> >Margarethe Vortmann, born stone in
> > Hildesheim, between 1780 and 1830. it was named as a
> >grandmother mütterlicherseits in a
> > baptism my before mother in July  1820.
> >
> > mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss
> > with best thanks to and friendly greeting
> > David Müldner
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>
> > To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> > Sent: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:04:22 +0100
> > Subject: [HN] STEIN in Hildesheim
> >
> >
> > Liebe hannoveraner!
> >
> > ich bin auf der Suche nach weitere Daten über Catharine
> >Margarethe Vortmann,
> > geborene Stein in Hildesheim, zwischen 1780 und 1830.
> >Sie ist als
> > Grossmutter mütterlicherseits bei eine Taufe meine
> >Vormutter genannt worden
> > in Juli 1820.
> >
> > mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss
> >
> > David Müldner
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>



--
David Müldner

[HN] Familienforschung Wendhausen/Reinstorf (K rs. Lüneburg)

Date: 2006/02/05 13:02:58
From: Hans-Joachim Henschel <hahen(a)tiscali.de>

 
Hallo Liste,

in meiner mütterlichen Linie befindet sich ein "Ernst Gottlieb Müller",
Ehefrau nicht bekannt.

Dieser war um 1800 Schullehrer in Wendhausen, im Kirchspiel Reinstorf ...

Siehe auch Homepage:   <http://home.arcor.de/ha-jo/ahnen/>
http://home.arcor.de/ha-jo/ahnen/

Hat eventuell jemand weitergehende Daten!? 

Gruß Hans Henschel


[HN] Rukop, Ruhkop, Rokopp, Ru(h)kopf, etc

Date: 2006/02/05 13:06:04
From: Klaus Vahlbruch <Klaus-Vahlbruch(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Listies.

Ich beschäftige mich mit der Ahnenforschung Ru(h)kopf, mit wechselden Schreibweisen. Diese Ruhkopf's stammen aus dem Gebiet zwischen und in Hannover und Hildesheim.
Wer solche Namen in seinen Daten hat sollte sich bei mir melden

Liebe Grüße
Uschi Wojciechowski [Uschi Wojciechowski <ruhwo(a)gmx.de>]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
I´m looking for Ru(h)kopf, Ro(h)kopf, Rukop, Rukopp in any way
it might be written. Is there anybody in the air who knows about
these names & familys anywhere in the world?

The Ruhkopf´s came from the Hannover/Hildesheim-area.

greetings
Uschi Wojciechowski [Uschi Wojciechowski <ruhwo(a)gmx.de>]



Re: [HN] Rukop, Ruhkop, Rokopp, Ru(h)kopf, etc

Date: 2006/02/05 14:16:37
From: Waltraud von Salzen <waltraud.von.salzen(a)ewetel.net>

Liebe Uschi/Klaus,

im KB Lunsen habe ich folgenden Eintrag gefunden. Die rot geschriebenen Namen konnte ich nicht eindeutig

lesen. Da ich die Originale auf Festplatte habe, könnte ich diese bei Bedarf senden.



53. 28.Aug.1809 Johann Christoph Lumpe ? Campe in Lunsen uns seiner Frau Anna Dorothea

geb.Ruhkopf, alt 27 Jahr, eine Tochter gebohren, welche den 31. getauft ist. Anna Marie

Gevatter: Anna Cathrina Ruhkopf, Anna Dor.Ruhkopf, Trina Maria Germann









Subject: [HN] Rukop, Ruhkop, Rokopp, Ru(h)kopf, etc




[HN] KB-Fund Lange-Plüger

Date: 2006/02/05 14:26:09
From: Waltraud von Salzen <waltraud.von.salzen(a)ewetel.net>

Liebe L-Leser,
hat jemand von Euch hierfür Verwendung? Eintragung aus dem KB Lunsen.

10. 20.Febr.1810 Sophie Dorothee Langen, der Angabe nach aus Bückeburg und die Ehefrau Hinrich Plüger,

eines Hannoverschen Invaliden, gebürtig aus Uslar bey Johann Meyer in Morsum von einem

todtgebohrenen Sohn entbunden. Die Hebamme Gesche Behrens versicherte, dass das Kind

sehr klein gewesen und viel zu früh zugekommen.





Viele grüße

Waltraud



Re: [HN] Rukop, Ruhkop, Rokopp, Ru(h)kopf, etc

Date: 2006/02/05 14:31:57
From: HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de <HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Uschi, 1761 heiratet in Bilderlahe eine Marie Anna Elisabeth
Ruhkopf aus Mönchehof bei Seesen eine Schuster J. Erbens, der aus Taly
in Italien stammt.
Übrigens hatte ich mal einen Klassenkameraden, der hieß genauso wie Du,
ermusste mindestens zweimal am Tag seinen namen buchstabieren, weil die
Lehrer den namen immer nicht schrieben konnten, alles Gute Heinrich
-----Original Message-----
Date: Sun,  5 Feb 2006 13:06:00 +0100
Subject: [HN] Rukop, Ruhkop, Rokopp, Ru(h)kopf, etc
From: Klaus Vahlbruch 
To: Hannover-L 

Hallo Listies.

Ich beschäftige mich mit der Ahnenforschung Ru(h)kopf, mit wechselden 
Schreibweisen. Diese Ruhkopf's stammen aus dem Gebiet zwischen  und in 
Hannover und Hildesheim.
Wer solche Namen in seinen Daten hat sollte sich bei mir melden

Liebe Grüße
Uschi Wojciechowski [Uschi Wojciechowski ]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
I´m looking for Ru(h)kopf, Ro(h)kopf, Rukop, Rukopp in any way
it might be written. Is there anybody in the air who knows about
these names & familys anywhere in the world?

The Ruhkopf´s came from the Hannover/Hildesheim-area.

greetings
Uschi Wojciechowski [Uschi Wojciechowski ]


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l




[HN] KB-Fund: Beneken- Rammacher,Verden

Date: 2006/02/05 14:54:09
From: Waltraud von Salzen <waltraud.von.salzen(a)ewetel.net>

Liebe L-Leser,

noch ein Fund im KB Lunsen

59. 25.Aug.1810 Ferdinand Beneken u.s.Frau Dorthia Rammacher aus Verden, 26 J., bey Brün

Buschmann in Wulmstorf gekommen, wo die Frau des Nachts mit einem todtgeb.

                              Kind niedergekommen.





Gruß

Waltraud



[HN] KB-Fund:Lüers,Morsum - Holtmann,Holn (Hollen)

Date: 2006/02/05 15:01:31
From: Waltraud von Salzen <waltraud.von.salzen(a)ewetel.net>



Noch ein Fund:



79. 30.Sept.1810 Harm Lüers, Häusler in Morsum und s. Frau Gesche Holtmann, gebürtig aus Holn,

eine Tochter geb., welche den 22.Oct. getauft ist Beke

                              Gevatter: Gesche Roden, Trina Bohlmann



Gruß, Waltraud



Re: [HN] Familienforschung Wendhausen/Reinstorf (Krs. =?ISO-8859-1?q?L=FCneburg), _Thomasburg, _Gienau, M=DCLLER, _MENRICHS, L=DCHR, HARMS, SAUCKE, STOECK, BERGER, KOPMANN, L=DCTJENS, PAHDELS, BOHLMANN, SCHULZ, ROEMHILD, FINDORF, BORCHERS, BREESEN, CLAVIEN, HUNERT?=

Date: 2006/02/05 15:09:54
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"Hans-Joachim Henschel" <hahen(a)tiscali.de> schrieb:
>  
> Hallo Liste,
> 
> in meiner mütterlichen Linie befindet sich ein "Ernst Gottlieb Müller",
> Ehefrau nicht bekannt.
> 
> Dieser war um 1800 Schullehrer in Wendhausen, im Kirchspiel Reinstorf ...
> 
> Siehe auch Homepage:   <http://home.arcor.de/ha-jo/ahnen/>
> http://home.arcor.de/ha-jo/ahnen/
> 
> Hat eventuell jemand weitergehende Daten!? 
> 
> Gruß Hans Henschel

Hallo Hans Henschel,

mit diesem Ernst Jürgen (Georg) Gottlieb MÜLLER bin ich auch verwandt.

nach meinen Kirchenbuchstudien ergeben sich die folgenden Daten:

I. Peter Gottlieb MÜLLER
*...,+... 1777 als Schulmeister zu Harmstorff genannt
oo I. Dahlenburg 3.5.1777 (Kb.Cop.2/1777) Anna Maria MENRICHS, * ...(err. 1756, kein Taufeintrag im KB Dahlenburg nach 1757), + gienau 5., begr. 08.02.1792, 35 !/2 jahre (KB Dahlenburg, Tote 6/1792), T.v. Christoph MENRICHS (+ vor 1777, da 1777 "seel." und "weiland Köthner in Gienau") 
oo II. Dahlenburg 7.5.1792 (KB Cop. 4/1792) Anna Catharina Charlotta LÜHR von Bavendorff, *..., + ... nach 1803 (Hausinschrift in Gienau von vor 1803 vorhanden)
Kinder aus 1. Ehe:
- Ernst Jürgen Gottlieb (1781 -1833) - siehe weiter unten II.A.
- Dorothea Elisabeth, * Gienau 30.01, ~02.02 (Notizen ungenau: zwischen 1781 und 87)
- Johann Christoph, * Gienau 05,~Dahlenburg 07.03.1787
       Paten: Johann Christoph Stoeck/Peter Christoph Berger/Johan Friedr. Kopmann
- Lucia elisabeth, *Gienau 26.,~Dahlenburg 28.02.1790
       Paten: Lucia Elisabeth Lütjens
- Magdalena Dorothea, *Gienau 15.,~ Dahlenburg 18.12("xbr.".1791
       Paten: Magdalena Dorothea Pahdels/Dorothea Elisabeth Bohlmann

aus der 2.Ehe:
- Catharina Elisabeth, * Gienau 18.01.1793, + (22.03.1847;laut nachtrag Kb.Dahlenburg Taufen)
        Paten:  Catharaina Elisabeth Harms 

II.A. Ernst Jürgen(Georg)Gottlieb MÜLLER (1781 - 1833)
* Gienau 29.04.,~ Dahlenburg 02.05.1781, + Thomasburg 29.06.1833, 53J.; 1814 -1833 Schullehrer und Küster in Thomasburg; wohl trotz der Abweichungen,respektive Lesarten der Schreibweise beim 2.Vornamen identisch mit dem 1781 in Gienau geborenen, da die Ehefrau dort im Schulhaus verstirbt und 1801 in Thomasburg auch der oben genannte Schullehrer Peter Gottlieb MÜLLER aus Gienau Taufpate in Thomasburg war.
...
Da die frühen Kinder nicht in Thomasburg sind (vielleicht auch nur von mir damals nicht notiert;Anm.HPA)ist eine vorherige Tätigkeit als Lehrer in Wendhausen durchaus passend.
...
oo ... Catharina Dorothea SCHULZE/SCHULTZE/SCHULZ, *.. ..., + Gienau/Kspl. Dahlenburg 17., begr. 21.02.1824 (KB Thomasburg.: "... fiel im Schulhause zu Gienau ... vom Boden, und starb gleich darauf ...")
Kinder: lt. KB Thoasburg, Leichenb. 6/1833: 12 Kinder

...
- E.C.H. ( Nachfolger des Vaters im Küster- und Lehreramt ) - siehe ...
...
-Charlotte Margarethe Dorothee ( <1814 - 1832> )- siehe ... nachweisbar
...
- Johann Friedrich Georg Carl, *Thomasburg (Kb.S.83) 04.02.1816
     Paten: Pastor Joh.Nicol. Friedr. Roemhild zu Drennh./ Müllermeister Joh.Georg Findorf zu               
            Thomasburg/derzweite Pastor Giesebrecht Georg Carl Borchers
- Henriette Sohie Dorothea, *Thomasb. (Kb.S.92) 04./05.11.1817
     Paten: Demois. Henriette Sophie Dorothea Borchers
- Dorothee louise Elisabeth, * Thomasb. (Kb. S.101, "das9.Kind",16.03.1819, + 13.11.1820
     Paten: 7 verschiedene: Frau Pastorin Römhild zu Drenkhausen/ die Wittwe Frau Eleonore 
            Elisabeth Breesen daselbst/ die Wittwe Frau Anne Dorothee Carstens/ die Haus-
            wirthin Frau Dorothee Margar. Clavin / Frau Louise Sophie Hunert hieselbst .... 
- Sophie ouise Charlotte, * Thomasb. (Kb. S.110) 15.11.1820
      Paten: Frau Pastorin Sophie Louise Charlotte Borchers 
- Heinrich August ..., *Thomasburg (Kb. S.123) 26.12.1822
      Paten: "der Müller Findorff hielt ihn zur Taufe"
...
Es existiern Schulvisitationsprotokolle über die Lehrertätigkeit von E.J. MÜLLER. diese hatte 1994 Herr Hoffmann Kirchenarchivar und Bewohner des ehemaligen Schulhauses in Thomasburg vor zu veröffentlichen. Mündliche Informationen (ohne Gewähr) dazu lauteten 1820: 6 Kinder, Lehrer Müller hat Schwierigkeiten seine zahlreichen Kinder zu ernähren. hat das Schulseminar in Hannover besucht, 1832: 12 Kinder, 1836 wird ein Anbau der Schule fertig, jetzt ist der Sohn E.C.H.MÜLLER Lehrer (Wechsel zwischen 1832 und 1836), Zu den Fähigkeiten der Lehrer aus den Protokollen: E.J.Müller konnte keine oten lesen, sein Nachfolger gleichen Namens soll es an der nötigen Wärme fehlen lassen haben. die Amtszeit des zweiten Müller soll bis 1853 gewährt haben.
...
Meine Verwandschaft besteht über die Charlotte Margarethe Dorothee MÜLLER, welche am 3.11.1832 den Hauswirth Johann Heinrich STEGEN aus wendhausen heiratet.

Hoffe die Daten führen weiter

mit freundlichen Gruß

hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

[HN] GEHRKE

Date: 2006/02/05 15:29:29
From: KJ . Kunze <KJ.Kunze(a)t-online.de>


  Hallo Liste,


  wer hat den Namen GEHRKE aus Alt-Wallmoden / Goslar in seiner Ahnenliste ???

  GEHRKE  /  GERICKE   Heinrich Conrad             * 11.04.1784 Alt-Wallmoden

                          00  wann und wo ???

  BÜLTEMANN  Johanna Marie Sophie Eleonore         * 21.04.1788  in Haverlah


  Ferner suche ich die Eltern von oben genannten Personen.




  kann mir jemand helfen ???
  Klaus

[HN] KUNZE

Date: 2006/02/05 15:34:53
From: KJ . Kunze <KJ.Kunze(a)t-online.de>



  Hallo Liste,

  wer hat den Namen KUNZE aus dem Weserbergland in seiner Ahnenliste ???

  KUNZE, Heinrich Friedrich Anton              *  07.03.1799   in Brökln
                                               +  wann und wo ???

                                00  wan und wo

  Ehefrau:  ???


  kann mir jemand weiter helfen ?. Ferner suche ich seine Eltern.

  Gruß Klaus

Re: [HN] Rukop, Ruhkop, Rokopp, Ru(h)kopf, etc

Date: 2006/02/05 15:38:43
From: Wolfgang Ewig <ewig1(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Uschi
die Ruhkopfs kommen im Gebiet zwischen Barsinghausen und Hannover ganz
besonders aber im Ort Langreder vor. Dort hatte ich seinerzeit mit  Ruhkopfs
zu tun, da ein Ruhkopf - Johann Rukopf (* 1586)  - Besitzer (um 1653) des
Rittergutes II in Langreder war. Noch 1790 wird ein Johann Jürgen Ludwig
Ruhkopf als Vollmeier Nr. 3 in Langreder bezeichnet. Über die Rittergüter
Langreder I und II habe ich eine kleine Broschüre erstellt. Falls Interesse,
bitte ich um Nachricht.
Um welchen Ruhkopf-Vorfahren handelt es sich denn?Eventuell kann ich in
meinen Trauregistern schauen, die ich im Gebiet von Wunstorf bis Hannover
und von Seelze bis Richtung Hameln erarbeite.
Viele Grüße aus Barsinghausen
Wolfgang Ewig

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] Rukop, Ruhkop, Rokopp, Ru(h)kopf, etc


> Hallo Uschi, 1761 heiratet in Bilderlahe eine Marie Anna Elisabeth
> Ruhkopf aus Mönchehof bei Seesen eine Schuster J. Erbens, der aus Taly
> in Italien stammt.
> Übrigens hatte ich mal einen Klassenkameraden, der hieß genauso wie Du,
> ermusste mindestens zweimal am Tag seinen namen buchstabieren, weil die
> Lehrer den namen immer nicht schrieben konnten, alles Gute Heinrich
> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 13:06:00 +0100
> Subject: [HN] Rukop, Ruhkop, Rokopp, Ru(h)kopf, etc
> From: Klaus Vahlbruch
> To: Hannover-L
>
> Hallo Listies.
>
> Ich beschäftige mich mit der Ahnenforschung Ru(h)kopf, mit wechselden
> Schreibweisen. Diese Ruhkopf's stammen aus dem Gebiet zwischen und in
> Hannover und Hildesheim.
> Wer solche Namen in seinen Daten hat sollte sich bei mir melden
>
> Liebe Grüße
> Uschi Wojciechowski [Uschi Wojciechowski ]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Hello,
> I´m looking for Ru(h)kopf, Ro(h)kopf, Rukop, Rukopp in any way
> it might be written. Is there anybody in the air who knows about
> these names & familys anywhere in the world?
>
> The Ruhkopf´s came from the Hannover/Hildesheim-area.
>
> greetings
> Uschi Wojciechowski [Uschi Wojciechowski ]
>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



[HN] Verwohl

Date: 2006/02/05 15:52:47
From: KJ . Kunze <KJ.Kunze(a)t-online.de>


 Hallo Liste,

 wer hat den Namen VERWOHL aus Holenberg / Golmbach Kreis Holzminden
 ( Weserbergland )
 in seiner Ahnenliste ??

 VERWOHL, Heinrich Friedrich              * wann und wo  ( ca 1770 - 1780 )
                                          + wann und wo

                           oo wann und wo ???

 ferner suche ich seine Ehefrau.


 Ferner suche ich die Eltern von oben genannten Personen. Kann mir jemand
 weiter helfen ???
 Gruß Klaus

 
 PS. auch andere Schreibarten können vorkommen:
     VERWOHLD,VERWOHLT,FREWOHL,VERWOHLDS,VERWOHLTS

[HN] schrader

Date: 2006/02/05 16:12:21
From: Gail Schrader <gscout1912(a)mindspring.com>

Hi Ruth,

Thanks for the information on Heinrich Schrader.  What is confusing me is that on the baptismal record of his first born child - Heinrich Schrader Jr.  he put down that his place of birth was Watzum, Duchy of Braunschweig and his wife Margaretha Luring put down Stadh, Kingdom of Hannover.  Other records indicate she may have been born in Sollingen.

So if Watzum is not correct where do I look next?  I do know they were Lutheran's.  Do you have any other records or surrounding villages that may have him listed?  Or where do I get ahold of records like you have?

Thanks,
Gail Schrader
gscout1912(a)mindspring.com


AW: [HN] Suche Bedeutung des Nachnamen TIETZ

Date: 2006/02/05 16:23:06
From: FalkLiebe <FalkLiebe(a)t-online.de>

Lieber David, 

Horst Naumann in seinem Familiennamenbuch 
(VEB Bibliographisches Institut Leipzig, 1987. ISBN 3-323-00089-7;
Neuauflage bei Bassermann, Oktober 2000)
verweist bei TIETZ(E) auf
DIETZ
Um 860 Tydso, 995 Tiezo = Diezo 
(W. Schlaug, Die altsaechsischen Personennamen vor dem Jahre 1000 = Lunder
germanistische Studien Bd. 34, Lund 1962)
1352 Thycen, 1368 dy Dyczinne 
(Material aus der Kartei von Prof. Dr. Horst Naumann)
1413 Ticze 
(H. Gruenert, Die altenburgischen Personennamen, Ein Beitrag zur
mitteldeutschen Namenforschung = Mitteldseutsche Forschungen Bd. 12,
Tuebingen 1958) 
Vergleiche auch 1355/1383 Dyderik Kökere = 1383/1387 Ditze Köker (R. Zoder,
Familiennamen in Osdtfalen, Bd. 1 - 2, Hildesheim 1968) 
Kurzform zu Rufnamen auf althochdeutsch thuiot, diot, besonders Diederich
plus -z-
Suffix 

Hans Bahlow, Josef Karlmann Brechenmacher und Konrad Kunze in seinem
dtv-Atlas Namenkunde 1998/2000 kommen zu keinen anderen Ergebnissen, bringen
aber nicht so viele Beispiele/Belege

Gruss aus dem weiss ueberzuckerten Diepholz 

Falk (Liebezeit)  

   1. Suche Bedeutung der Nachname TIETZ (David Muldner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 12:25:57 +0100
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>
Subject: [HN] Suche Bedeutung der Nachname TIETZ
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Message-ID:
	<8c554fb20602050325v62479c87g9520ca0be7b7df37(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Liebe Hannoveraner,

Erstens möchte ich Herr Petersen für seine Auskunfte der letzten Tage
herzlichst danken.

wie bekannt, befasse ich mich mit der Forschung nach meiner Ahnen Müldner.
Die Bedeutung der Nachname hat man für mich in Der grosse Duden gefunden.

ich bin aber jetzt auf der Suche nach der Bedeutung/Herkunft der Nachname
TIETZ. Könnte einer von Euch mich dabei behilflich sein?

Besten Dank im voraus schönen Sonntag!

David

Mulde: Mittelhochdeutsch mulde "längliches, halbrudes Gefäß, Mehl, Backtrog"
ist wahrscheinlich umgebildet aus gleichbed. mhd  mu[o]lter, das auf ahd
muoltera, muhltra beruht. Das althochdeutsche Wort ist entlehnt aus
lateinische Mulctra "Melkkübel", eine Bildung zum Verb mulgere "melken"(vgl.
*melken*). Die Verwendung des ahd Wortes im Sinne von "Mulde, Trog" erklärt
sich daraus, daß die früher üblichen Melkgefäße eine längliche,
muldenähnliche Gestalt hatten. Im Nhd wird "Mulde"auch übertragen im Sinne
von muldenformige Vertiefung (im Erdreich, Stein, Flöz),
"Talsenkung"gebraucht. Der mhd Form "mulde"enstpricht mnd "Molde, Molle,
worauf berlin. Molle w. "Bierglas, Glas Bier"beruht.
[1]<http://mail.google.com/mail/?view=page&name=gp&ver=3403410b768567d8#_ftn
1>

------------------------------

[1]<http://mail.google.com/mail/?view=page&name=gp&ver=3403410b768567d8#_ftn
ref1>Der
große Duden, Bd 7.
S.454. Bibliographisches Institut Mannheim 1963


------------------------------



Ende Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 27, Eintrag 9
*******************************************************


[HN] Fundsache:Taufen,Trauungen und Todesfälle, Neu -Württemberg, Brasilien 1937

Date: 2006/02/05 16:56:24
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

mit der Bitte um Weiterleitung an interessierte Listen:

Fundsache vom Flohmarkt: Mitteilungsblatt Nr.15/1937 der Deutschen Evangelischen Gemeinde Neu-Württemberg(Brasilien) für die Monate September, Oktober, November, Herausgeber: der Vorstand, Druck von Friedrich KRAHE:

translation: little finding from the second market: Newspaper no. 15/1737 of the German Lutheran Parish of Neu-Württemberg (Brasil) for the months septemebr, october, november, edited by the executive commitee, printed by Friedrich KRAHE:

"AMTSHANDLUNGEN 1937 (translation: Official duties):

Folgende Kinder wurden getauft( translation: the following baptisms happened) 

Stadtplatz: 

Reinhard SLUFKE - Doris ENGELMANN - Sieghard AHLERT - Helga DANZER - Arno BUß -Ottmar KRAMBECK - Ginilda HAUENSTEIN - Helmut FERTSCH - Anita AHLERT - Dietlinde KRETSCHMAR - Ingrid STROTHMANN

Nordbezirk: -  Hildegard ZILLMER -

Magdalena:

- Gertrud BREMERT - Erna HOERZ - Harry FENSTERSEIFER - Bruno FOCHINK - Ediwi KOECHE - Lilly JANKE - Egon SCHMIDT - Herta MICHEL - Edmund MÜLLER - Benno DECKERT - Frida DECKERT - Lilly DECKERT - Willy DECKERT -

München: - Lino SCHMIDT - Gerda HOERZ - Melita WAGNER -

Fagundes: -Edgar WANDSCHEER - Olinda WANDSCHEER - Selmita HÄRTER -

Rheinland: - Ilse ROTH - Ilma NEUMANN -

S.7 de Setembro:

- Renildo KETTERMANN - Ivonne KRÜGER - Eduard KLÄSENER - Alindo BRÄUNIG - Hildegard BADER - Friedrich SÄLZER - Elowy SCHÄFER - Abilo LAGASSE - Leokadia POTT - Arno SCHÜTZ - Erno GÄRTNER

Ramada:

- Edwald LAND - Wally MEWS - Egon BALKE - Bruno BALKE - Ewald KRÜTZMANN - Anita THIELKE -

Hindenburg:

- Romilda LOHMANN - Alasio OHLWEILER - Loni SCHEIBE - Berthold ZÖLLMANN - Kurt SCHMIDT - Edith WIETHÖLTER -

Vorderer Rincao:

- Geda RUFF - Bruno STIEGEMEIER - Emma WEIRICH - Ivonny MORCHE - Heda PEISE -

Hinterer RINCAO: - Guilda TISCHER -

Leipzig:

- Arno SCHAFFAZICK - Leonida DEßBESELL - Alindo NIELSON - Elma RETZLAFF -

Folgende Paare wurden kirchlich getraut(translation: the follwing marriages happened):

Friedrich BUEHRING und Theolina MÜLLER
Olympio SCHWINGEL und Wilma RUTZ
Oswald ZILLMER und Clara BOCK
Hans SCHARFF und Lucia WILMSEN 
Benno O.HAUENSTEIN und Anita LUTZ
Berthold HENN und Irma PLEGGE
Reinhold WEGENER und Elli SCHU
Alfred MÜLLER und Melita HACK
Albert HANDEL und Herta EISENBACH
Paul KLEWENSTEIN und Adeline MEWS
Fridolin RUTZ und Hilda POTT
Rupert AMON und Frida DREßLER
Fritz PICKERT und Marie MÜLLER
Alwin SCHMIDT und Olivia ROGGENBACH
Rudolf ZILLMER und Edith MÜLLER
Heinrich WEHRMANN und Frida HAPPKE
Eugen VOßLER und Hulda NIENOW
Oswin JENTSCH und HILDA PEISE
Edwin HÄUSNER und Olinda BEHM
Heinrich ALFING und Irene ULLMANN
Heinrich WEGENER und Hilda HEPP
Reinhold BREUNIG und Olinda KELLER
Gustav HERINGER und Hilda Marie SCHAFFAZICK
Oswald SCHNEIDER und Mathilde FAHL

Folgende Glieder unserer Gemeinde wurden im Laufe dieses Jahres in die Ewigkeit heimgerufen (the foolowing ebers of our parish have been called back to eternity during this year):

- Wilhelm BRINKMANN (64 Jahre)
- Karoline STREY (83 Jahre)
- Gustav BÜHRING  (52 Jahre)
- August SCHMIDT (78 Jahre)
- Alaida WOJAHN (17 Jahre)
- Lydia KNORR (36 Jahre)
- Franziska KRÜGER (67 Jahre)
- August Karl KRÜGER (65 Jahre)
- Luise KNORR (1 Mon. 28 Tage)
- Alfred SALZER (5 Jahre)
- Arnold LUTZ (1 Jahr 3 Monate)
- Helmut WINKEL (33 Jahre)
- Walter LINDNER (17 Jahre)
- Estelita SCHMIDT (12 Jahre)
- Elsa BOLL (47 Jahre)
- Traudi MEYER (6 Tage)

Weiterhin enthalten: eine Liste der Speneder für ein Denkmal für Dr. Hermann MEYER mit rund hundert Spendernamen. Also given: a directory of givers for a monument in honor of Dr. Hermann MEYER with roundabout a hundred names.

Viel Glück beim Finden and best wishes for a good finding

Hans Peter ALBERS, Bienenbüttel (Germany, not Brasil)



[HN] AW: Re: Familienforschung Wendhausen/Reinstorf (Krs.

Date: 2006/02/05 17:33:19
From: Hans-Joachim Henschel <hahen(a)tiscali.de>

AW: Re: Familienforschung Wendhausen/Reinstorf (Krs.

...herzlichen DANK  an Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

Für die umfassenden Informationen zu MÜLLER

Gruß Hans Henschel


Re: [HN] AW: Re: Familienforschung Wendhausen/Reinstorf (Krs.

Date: 2006/02/05 17:56:39
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"Hans-Joachim Henschel" <hahen(a)tiscali.de> schrieb:
> AW: Re: Familienforschung Wendhausen/Reinstorf (Krs.
> 
> ...herzlichen DANK  an Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel
> 
> Für die umfassenden Informationen zu MÜLLER
> 
> Gruß Hans Henschel

Gern geschehen ! Hätte gerne die Wendhausen-Daten für MÜLLER zur Ergänzung meiner MÜLLLER-Aufzeichnungen. Wenn noch letzte Zweifel über die Identiät des Lehrers Müller aus Wendhausen und Thomasburg vorhanden sind, bitte mich direkt anmailen.

Gruß Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

P.S.: zur Korrektur: was er nicht lesen konnte, waren "N"-oten.

[HN] Gorgasshotten

Date: 2006/02/05 20:26:58
From: CNordic <CNordic(a)aol.com>

Hi list members
Thank you for attempting to help me.

I do not have the letter in my pocession. Talking to relatives the oral 
history seemed to be that the family branch originated near Winterburg(Bohemia) now 
Vimperk, Cz.
The history was they than emmigrated to K.O.H. Perhaps Gorgasshotten could be 
in the Bohemia area. I shall check that possibility....
thanks
Richard.

[HN] HARTMANN

Date: 2006/02/05 20:29:19
From: KJ . Kunze <KJ.Kunze(a)t-online.de>


  Hallo Liste,
  
  ich suche verzweifelt die Vorfahren von:

  HARTMANN: Heinrich Wilhelm            *  ca. 1721  wann und wo
                                        +  11.12.1799  in Haynrode / Thüringen

                                 oo  17.11.1746  in Haynrode / Thüringen

  STOPFEL: Sabine                       *  1717 in Haynrode / Thüringen
                                        +  26.09.1802 in Haynrode / Thüringen

  kann mir jemand weiter helfen ?  Ferner suche ich die Eltern.
  Gruß Klaus


  PS. es könnte auch das Eichsfeld ( um Duderstadt ) sein.




[HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/05 21:55:51
From: dupaix37 <dupaix37(a)comcast.net>

Here is a success story.  First, I want to thank Barbara for posting all of the information and instructions for the on-line Hannover Emigration Index.  I found my great great grandfather Heinrich WIEDEBUSCH and family on the list.  Unfortunately the archives  didn't respond to my request.  Fortunately, I found an excellent researcher who goes to the Hannover area twice a year to visit her sister and do genealogy work.  She located the list which gave the name of the village, Meinbrexen, for Heinrich.  She was able then to take parts of the line back to the early 1600s.  And from that record I have the village of my great great grandmother, Louisa GIESLER--Lauenförde.  This is a line that I never thought that I would be able to locate because I only had the general locations of Hannover and Braunschweig to go by.  Than you Barbara.   Carol DuPaix

Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/05 22:09:00
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

---- dupaix37(a)comcast.net wrote: 
> Here is a success story.  First, I want to thank Barbara for posting all of the information and instructions for the on-line Hannover Emigration Index.  I found my great great grandfather Heinrich WIEDEBUSCH and family on the list.  Unfortunately the archives  didn't respond to my request.  Fortunately, I found an excellent researcher who goes to the Hannover area twice a year to visit her sister and do genealogy work.  She located the list which gave the name of the village, Meinbrexen, for Heinrich.  She was able then to take parts of the line back to the early 1600s.  And from that record I have the village of my great great grandmother, Louisa GIESLER--Lauenförde.  This is a line that I never thought that I would be able to locate because I only had the general locations of Hannover and Braunschweig to go by.  Than you Barbara.   Carol DuPaix
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
 

Would you please pstr the name and contavt for the research genealogist you used. If you have concerns about posting please send me a replu direct to my email address.
Thank you, Max

Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/05 22:09:16
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

---- dupaix37(a)comcast.net wrote: 
> Here is a success story.  First, I want to thank Barbara for posting all of the information and instructions for the on-line Hannover Emigration Index.  I found my great great grandfather Heinrich WIEDEBUSCH and family on the list.  Unfortunately the archives  didn't respond to my request.  Fortunately, I found an excellent researcher who goes to the Hannover area twice a year to visit her sister and do genealogy work.  She located the list which gave the name of the village, Meinbrexen, for Heinrich.  She was able then to take parts of the line back to the early 1600s.  And from that record I have the village of my great great grandmother, Louisa GIESLER--Lauenförde.  This is a line that I never thought that I would be able to locate because I only had the general locations of Hannover and Braunschweig to go by.  Than you Barbara.   Carol DuPaix
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Does anyone know?

Date: 2006/02/05 22:44:47
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

I believe I have already posted most of this information already, but bear with me. I recently viewed a tape at my local LDS library which I think was an index of emegrees through the port of Hamburg, I think for the years 1834 through 1913. (I may be off  a year or two). There is a line for 'Year', a line for 'Page' and a line for 'Code' The page line has the number 590 entered. But the 0 is smaller in size and centered on the line. Perhaps a zero. But that is not my real concern.  To what do these entries refer to?
The volunteers at the library were of no help. Can anybody out there tell me?
The  information regarging the object of my search. Julius Wilhelm Burgdorf mathched what I already know but there was an origin place name, Baddeckenstedt.

[HN] Pastorengeschichte von Philipp Meyer.

Date: 2006/02/05 23:30:46
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>

Liebe Mitglieder,

hat einer von Euch Zugang zu:

Philipp Meyer, Die Pastoren der Landeskirchen Hannovers und
Schaumburg-Lippes seit der Reformation, Göttingen 1941 (Bd. I), 1942 (Bd.II)
und 1953 (Bd. III).
Ich wäre interessiert ob es hier Angaben gibt über wo die Pastor

*Johann August Tietz*, geboren Hildesheim 13.7.1807 (St. Andreas), 1833-1845
Pastor in Breese bei Dannenberg, 1844-1856 Pastor in Horst bei Neustadt am
Rübenberge, 1856-1864 Pastor in Wahrenholz (Kreis Gifhorn), 1868-1874 Pastor
in Liebenau (Kreis Nienburg), dann emeritiert, gestorben Calberlah 1.6.1878
studiert hat und eventuell wo die Heirat mit Amalie Küneke stattfand. Gibt
es Daten zu der Ehefrau, wie Geburt und Eltern, und zur eventueller Kinder
dieser Ehe?

Besten Dank im voraus und freundlichem Gruss

--
David Müldner

Re: [HN] schrader

Date: 2006/02/06 00:17:53
From: hrs <hrs(a)hist.de>

Dear Gail,

Just read your posting and hope you do not mind that I just answer 
to it.

> ... and his wife Margaretha Luring put down Stadh, Kingdom of
> Hannover.  Other records indicate she may have been born in
> Sollingen.

The place of orgin of Margaretha should be Stadt, Sulingen parish.
Stadt is (although the name means town in today`s German) a small 
village located about three kilometers northwest of Sulingen.

Any news or any new ideas about Heinrich and his orgin?


Best greetings from Bremen, Germany,

Jens



Jens Mueller-Koppe
HISTORICAL RESEARCH SERVICES (HRS), Germany
Schanzendorfer Str. 9b
D-28307 Bremen
Germany
-> www.hist.de <-

Re: [HN] Suche Bedeutung des Nachnamen Salweck

Date: 2006/02/06 15:04:05
From: streetrods4ever2004 <streetrods4ever2004(a)comcast.net>

Guten Tag Listenmitglieder.

Suche die Bedeutung der Namen
Niefenecker, Salweck, Amber,Neumeier,Reindl.
Thanks for responding.

Viele Gruesse an alle.
Brigitte und Fam. aus Fl.
streetrods4ever2004(a)comcast.net



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <FalkLiebe(a)t-online.de>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 9:22 AM
Subject: AW: [HN] Suche Bedeutung des Nachnamen TIETZ


Lieber David,

Horst Naumann in seinem Familiennamenbuch
(VEB Bibliographisches Institut Leipzig, 1987. ISBN 3-323-00089-7;
Neuauflage bei Bassermann, Oktober 2000)
verweist bei TIETZ(E) auf
DIETZ
Um 860 Tydso, 995 Tiezo = Diezo
(W. Schlaug, Die altsaechsischen Personennamen vor dem Jahre 1000 = Lunder
germanistische Studien Bd. 34, Lund 1962)
1352 Thycen, 1368 dy Dyczinne
(Material aus der Kartei von Prof. Dr. Horst Naumann)
1413 Ticze
(H. Gruenert, Die altenburgischen Personennamen, Ein Beitrag zur
mitteldeutschen Namenforschung = Mitteldseutsche Forschungen Bd. 12,
Tuebingen 1958)
Vergleiche auch 1355/1383 Dyderik Kökere = 1383/1387 Ditze Köker (R. Zoder,
Familiennamen in Osdtfalen, Bd. 1 - 2, Hildesheim 1968)
Kurzform zu Rufnamen auf althochdeutsch thuiot, diot, besonders Diederich
plus -z-
Suffix

Hans Bahlow, Josef Karlmann Brechenmacher und Konrad Kunze in seinem
dtv-Atlas Namenkunde 1998/2000 kommen zu keinen anderen Ergebnissen, bringen
aber nicht so viele Beispiele/Belege

Gruss aus dem weiss ueberzuckerten Diepholz

Falk (Liebezeit)

   1. Suche Bedeutung der Nachname TIETZ (David Muldner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 12:25:57 +0100
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>
Subject: [HN] Suche Bedeutung der Nachname TIETZ
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Message-ID:
<8c554fb20602050325v62479c87g9520ca0be7b7df37(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Liebe Hannoveraner,

Erstens möchte ich Herr Petersen für seine Auskunfte der letzten Tage
herzlichst danken.

wie bekannt, befasse ich mich mit der Forschung nach meiner Ahnen Müldner.
Die Bedeutung der Nachname hat man für mich in Der grosse Duden gefunden.

ich bin aber jetzt auf der Suche nach der Bedeutung/Herkunft der Nachname
TIETZ. Könnte einer von Euch mich dabei behilflich sein?

Besten Dank im voraus schönen Sonntag!

David

Mulde: Mittelhochdeutsch mulde "längliches, halbrudes Gefäß, Mehl, Backtrog"
ist wahrscheinlich umgebildet aus gleichbed. mhd  mu[o]lter, das auf ahd
muoltera, muhltra beruht. Das althochdeutsche Wort ist entlehnt aus
lateinische Mulctra "Melkkübel", eine Bildung zum Verb mulgere "melken"(vgl.
*melken*). Die Verwendung des ahd Wortes im Sinne von "Mulde, Trog" erklärt
sich daraus, daß die früher üblichen Melkgefäße eine längliche,
muldenähnliche Gestalt hatten. Im Nhd wird "Mulde"auch übertragen im Sinne
von muldenformige Vertiefung (im Erdreich, Stein, Flöz),
"Talsenkung"gebraucht. Der mhd Form "mulde"enstpricht mnd "Molde, Molle,
worauf berlin. Molle w. "Bierglas, Glas Bier"beruht.
[1]<http://mail.google.com/mail/?view=page&name=gp&ver=3403410b768567d8#_ftn
1>

------------------------------

[1]<http://mail.google.com/mail/?view=page&name=gp&ver=3403410b768567d8#_ftn
ref1>Der
große Duden, Bd 7.
S.454. Bibliographisches Institut Mannheim 1963


------------------------------



Ende Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 27, Eintrag 9
*******************************************************

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l




Re: [HN] STEIN in Hildesheim

Date: 2006/02/06 15:52:24
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Jb,
 
Thanks for the feedback, any yes better than nothing but not to be trusted with anything that requires exact translation.
 
Barney  
 
-----Original Message-----
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:18:49 -0800
Subject: Re: [HN] STEIN in Hildesheim


lol. The results? About what you can expect. If you can get the gist of it, you're ahead of the curve. But tread lightly here, pretty much always. To wit, same paragraph: 
 
>I am on the search for further data over Catharine Margarethe Vortmann, >born stone in 
>Hildesheim, between 1780 and 1830. 
 
Not bad. Except Stein ought not be translated in this case. ;) 
 
>it was named as a grandmother mütterlicherseits in a baptism my before >mother in July 1820. 
 
On the other hand, not so good, eh. :) 
 
There are a number of similar electronic (artificial intelligence) translators, all with about the same "speed" and smarts. They're certainly better than nothing and will put you in the ballpark generally, but remain far from perfect (as noted above). The best translator is learning sufficient command of the language, or having the right friend. ;) 
 
Now that said, I'm sure David Müldner thanks you. 
 
Jb 
 
>From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com 
>To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net 
>Subject: Re: [HN] STEIN in Hildesheim 
>Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:19:14 -0500 
> 
>Dear Hannoverers, 
>I speak very little German so I have been using a web based translator at >the website 
>below. I have taken David's email and translated it using the web >translator. 
>How did it do? Does anyone know of a better web translator? 
>Thanks for your help, 
>Barney Speckman 
> 
>Ich spreche sehr kleines Deutsch, damit ich einen Gewebe auf der Basis >Übersetzer an 
>der Website unten benutzt habe. Ich habe die E-Mail von David genommen und >habe es 
>übersetzt, der den Gewebeübersetzer benutzt. Wie hat es gemacht? Weiß >jemand von einem 
>besseren Gewebeübersetzer? 
>http://german.about.com/library/bltransl_05.htm 
> 
>Liebe hannoveraner! 
>Dear hannoveraner! 
> 
>ich bin auf der Suche nach weitere Daten über Catharine Margarethe >Vortmann, 
>geborene Stein in Hildesheim, zwischen 1780 und 1830. Sie ist als 
>Grossmutter mütterlicherseits bei eine Taufe meine Vormutter genannt worden 
>in Juli 1820. 
>I am on the search for further data over Catharine Margarethe Vortmann, >born stone in 
>Hildesheim, between 1780 and 1830. it was named as a grandmother >mütterlicherseits in a 
>baptism my before mother in July 1820. 
> 
>mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss 
>with best thanks to and friendly greeting 
>David Müldner 
 
_________________________________________________________________ 
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement 
 
______________________________________________ 
 
Hannover-L mailing list 
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/06 18:36:40
From: GERALD BAILEY <gbailey(a)flash.net>

What is the address for this list as I have several
family members from germany and would like to find how
they got to the USA and at what time. They came from
Hannover Germany. The Hannover Emigration Index may
help find out. Thanks

--- pharmaxx(a)charter.net wrote:

> ---- dupaix37(a)comcast.net wrote: 
> > Here is a success story.  First, I want to thank
> Barbara for posting all of the information and
> instructions for the on-line Hannover Emigration
> Index.  I found my great great grandfather Heinrich
> WIEDEBUSCH and family on the list.  Unfortunately
> the archives  didn't respond to my request. 
> Fortunately, I found an excellent researcher who
> goes to the Hannover area twice a year to visit her
> sister and do genealogy work.  She located the list
> which gave the name of the village, Meinbrexen, for
> Heinrich.  She was able then to take parts of the
> line back to the early 1600s.  And from that record
> I have the village of my great great grandmother,
> Louisa GIESLER--Lauenförde.  This is a line that I
> never thought that I would be able to locate because
> I only had the general locations of Hannover and
> Braunschweig to go by.  Than you Barbara.   Carol
> DuPaix
> > ______________________________________________
> > 
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> >
>
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 


Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/06 20:26:41
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

I'll send it to you privately since it is lengthy and has been posted on
this list several times.
Barbara


on 2/6/06 10:36 AM, GERALD BAILEY at gbailey(a)flash.net wrote:

> What is the address for this list as I have several
> family members from germany and would like to find how
> they got to the USA and at what time. They came from
> Hannover Germany. The Hannover Emigration Index may
> help find out. Thanks
> 
> --- pharmaxx(a)charter.net wrote:
> 
>> ---- dupaix37(a)comcast.net wrote:
>>> Here is a success story.  First, I want to thank
>> Barbara for posting all of the information and
>> instructions for the on-line Hannover Emigration
>> Index.  I found my great great grandfather Heinrich
>> WIEDEBUSCH and family on the list.  Unfortunately
>> the archives  didn't respond to my request.
>> Fortunately, I found an excellent researcher who
>> goes to the Hannover area twice a year to visit her
>> sister and do genealogy work.  She located the list
>> which gave the name of the village, Meinbrexen, for
>> Heinrich.  She was able then to take parts of the
>> line back to the early 1600s.  And from that record
>> I have the village of my great great grandmother,
>> Louisa GIESLER--Lauenförde.  This is a line that I
>> never thought that I would be able to locate because
>> I only had the general locations of Hannover and
>> Braunschweig to go by.  Than you Barbara.   Carol
>> DuPaix
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>> 
>> 
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> 
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/06 20:40:23
From: Jacobsdottir1 <Jacobsdottir1(a)aol.com>

Thank you so much ...I am new to German Genealogy and just joined the  list.
Any and all assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Barbara in South Carolina

Re: [HN] Pastorengeschichte von Philipp Meyer.

Date: 2006/02/06 21:35:39
From: Wilfried . Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"David Muldner" <david.muldner(a)gmail.com> schrieb:

> Ich wäre interessiert ob es hier Angaben gibt über wo die Pastor
> 
> *Johann August Tietz*, geboren Hildesheim 13.7.1807 (St. Andreas), 1833-1845
> Pastor in Breese bei Dannenberg, 1844-1856 Pastor in Horst bei Neustadt am
> Rübenberge, 1856-1864 Pastor in Wahrenholz (Kreis Gifhorn), 1868-1874 Pastor
> in Liebenau (Kreis Nienburg), dann emeritiert, gestorben Calberlah 1.6.1878
> studiert hat und eventuell wo die Heirat mit Amalie Küneke stattfand. Gibt
> es Daten zu der Ehefrau, wie Geburt und Eltern, und zur eventueller Kinder
> dieser Ehe?
> 
Hallo David Muldner,

in den Büchern von Ph. Meyer sind leider weder Angaben zu den Familien der Pastoren noch zu ihrem Studium enthalten. Lediglich der Vater ist meistens aufgeführt, so auch bei J. A. TIETZ: Er ist Sohn des Stadtmusikus Joh. Jul. TIETZ.
Johann August TIETZ ist übrigens der einzige TIETZ in den Büchern. So läßt sich dort auch kein Sohn finden.

Freundliche Grüße
Wilfried Petersen



Re: [HN] Pastorengeschichte von Philipp Meyer.

Date: 2006/02/06 23:16:32
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>

Hallo Wilfried Petersen!

Besten Dank, dann habe ich schon alle Daten den ich in meyer über Tietz
finden konnte.

mit freundlichem Gruss

David Müldner


On 2/6/06, Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>
wrote:
>
> "David Muldner" <david.muldner(a)gmail.com> schrieb:
>
> > Ich wäre interessiert ob es hier Angaben gibt über wo die Pastor
> >
> > *Johann August Tietz*, geboren Hildesheim 13.7.1807 (St. Andreas),
> 1833-1845
> > Pastor in Breese bei Dannenberg, 1844-1856 Pastor in Horst bei Neustadt
> am
> > Rübenberge, 1856-1864 Pastor in Wahrenholz (Kreis Gifhorn), 1868-1874
> Pastor
> > in Liebenau (Kreis Nienburg), dann emeritiert, gestorben Calberlah
> 1.6.1878
> > studiert hat und eventuell wo die Heirat mit Amalie Küneke stattfand.
> Gibt
> > es Daten zu der Ehefrau, wie Geburt und Eltern, und zur eventueller
> Kinder
> > dieser Ehe?
> >
> Hallo David Muldner,
>
> in den Büchern von Ph. Meyer sind leider weder Angaben zu den Familien der
> Pastoren noch zu ihrem Studium enthalten. Lediglich der Vater ist meistens
> aufgeführt, so auch bei J. A. TIETZ: Er ist Sohn des Stadtmusikus Joh. Jul.
> TIETZ.
> Johann August TIETZ ist übrigens der einzige TIETZ in den Büchern. So läßt
> sich dort auch kein Sohn finden.
>
> Freundliche Grüße
> Wilfried Petersen
>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>



--
David Müldner

RE: [HN] Gorgasshotten

Date: 2006/02/07 07:41:00
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Richard,

List your family name in Subject along with Gorgasshotten.

I'm sure many of the listies are aware of your search.

Today I read HannoverL mail.

RE: [HN] Gorgasshotten

...talking about a letter..and Winterburg (Bohemia)...and I wonder who? are the people you search for. What are their names?

Perhaps one day you will connect with someone searching out Bohemia + ????? (your family name.)

Barbie-Lew

P.S. Not intending to be harsh. I have many times wrote notes without including surname.





From: CNordic(a)aol.com
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Gorgasshotten
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 14:26:45 EST

Hi list members
Thank you for attempting to help me.

I do not have the letter in my pocession. Talking to relatives the oral
history seemed to be that the family branch originated near Winterburg(Bohemia) now
Vimperk, Cz.
The history was they than emmigrated to K.O.H. Perhaps Gorgasshotten could be
in the Bohemia area. I shall check that possibility....
thanks
Richard.
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


RE: [HN] Rukop, Ruhkop, Rokopp, Ru(h)kopf, etc

Date: 2006/02/07 07:50:51
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Hello,

Any chance old handwritting..that name Ruhkopf's might be Rudolph?


From: Klaus Vahlbruch <Klaus-Vahlbruch(a)t-online.de>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] Rukop, Ruhkop, Rokopp, Ru(h)kopf, etc
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 13:06:00 +0100

Hallo Listies.

Ich beschäftige mich mit der Ahnenforschung Ru(h)kopf, mit wechselden Schreibweisen. Diese Ruhkopf's stammen aus dem Gebiet zwischen und in Hannover und Hildesheim.
Wer solche Namen in seinen Daten hat sollte sich bei mir melden

Liebe Grüße
Uschi Wojciechowski [Uschi Wojciechowski <ruhwo(a)gmx.de>]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
I´m looking for Ru(h)kopf, Ro(h)kopf, Rukop, Rukopp in any way
it might be written. Is there anybody in the air who knows about
these names & familys anywhere in the world?

The Ruhkopf´s came from the Hannover/Hildesheim-area.

greetings
Uschi Wojciechowski [Uschi Wojciechowski <ruhwo(a)gmx.de>]


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/07 12:40:55
From: GapCreek <gapcreek(a)qldnet.com.au>

Hullo Barbara,

Can you tell me more about the above list.  I have family that came from
Hannover to Australia and great-uncles that went to America.  Would I be
able to locate how and when they left Hannover?

Kind regards

Marlene
----- Original Message -----
From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:24 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index


I'll send it to you privately since it is lengthy and has been posted on
this list several times.
Barbara


on 2/6/06 10:36 AM, GERALD BAILEY at gbailey(a)flash.net wrote:

> What is the address for this list as I have several
> family members from germany and would like to find how
> they got to the USA and at what time. They came from
> Hannover Germany. The Hannover Emigration Index may
> help find out. Thanks
>
> --- pharmaxx(a)charter.net wrote:
>
>> ---- dupaix37(a)comcast.net wrote:
>>> Here is a success story.  First, I want to thank
>> Barbara for posting all of the information and
>> instructions for the on-line Hannover Emigration
>> Index.  I found my great great grandfather Heinrich
>> WIEDEBUSCH and family on the list.  Unfortunately
>> the archives  didn't respond to my request.
>> Fortunately, I found an excellent researcher who
>> goes to the Hannover area twice a year to visit her
>> sister and do genealogy work.  She located the list
>> which gave the name of the village, Meinbrexen, for
>> Heinrich.  She was able then to take parts of the
>> line back to the early 1600s.  And from that record
>> I have the village of my great great grandmother,
>> Louisa GIESLER--Lauenförde.  This is a line that I
>> never thought that I would be able to locate because
>> I only had the general locations of Hannover and
>> Braunschweig to go by.  Than you Barbara.   Carol
>> DuPaix
>>> ______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>>
>>
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Rukop, Ruhkop, Rokopp, Ru(h)kopf, etc

Date: 2006/02/07 16:37:22
From: Klaus Vahlbruch <Klaus-Vahlbruch(a)t-online.de>

Cactus Flower schrieb:
Hello,

Any chance old handwritting..that name Ruhkopf's might be Rudolph?


----------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
I´m looking for Ru(h)kopf, Ro(h)kopf, Rukop, Rukopp in any way
it might be written. Is there anybody in the air who knows about
these names & familys anywhere in the world?

The Ruhkopf´s came from the Hannover/Hildesheim-area.

greetings
Uschi Wojciechowski [Uschi Wojciechowski <ruhwo(a)gmx.de>]

*********************************************************
Hello Cactus Frower, (this seems a very funy name to me!)

OK,
no we don´t think that anyone would read "Rodolph" instad of
Ruhkop or Rukopp. Thanks for your question and help.

Klaus (Vahlbruch) & Uschi (Wojciechowski)


Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/07 20:21:10
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Here it is:
> 
> Searching the Osnabrück, Hannover, Wolfenbüttel emigration records is done
> by going to the website:
> 
> http://app.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/findbuch/
> 
> It is a little confusing to use, especially if you don't  know German.  On
> the first page:
> Choose one of the three locations on the bar & click Abschicken
> Go to Index  in the middle  of the  page and click
> Fill in the surname you are looking for in the box "Suchbegriff"
> Choose Personen where it says nach Ort
> Click on Suchen starten and you will get a list of persons who emigrated
> from Germany with that name.  Or you may get nothing! Try the same search on
> all 3 locations.
> Note the number on the right column. That number will direct you to the
> town later.  Click on a name that matches a person you are looking for and
> you will get a code that will be what you use to order the record.
> Finding what area the person comes from is not easy.  On the Hannover
> site, it often names a town right in the code.  For Osnabrück it is harder,
> although it sometimes names the town or part of it. Don't  presume anything
> about the town . You need to go back to the page where you first clicked on
> Index and this time click on Gliederung.
> There you will see a list of towns and if you click on the numbers on
> the left, you will get a listing of the numbers of people who emigrated from
> that area.  The numbers start with 1 and go up from there.  So if the number
> is 5 digits it will be closer to the bottom of the list. But you have to go
> to the  one that has the number in it from the right column of the page with
> the list of names. When  you find the right one, the code will match the
> code you saw earlier tied to the name you were looking  for. I know this is
> confusing.  I have explained  the process many times on this site and it
> never  is very clear!
> Then, you can order the records from one of the 3 locations.  The email
> addresses are:
    Hannover(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
    osnabueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
> Wolfenbüttel  - poststelle(a)staatsarchiv-wf.niedersachsen.de
>                         (this email address may not be current.)
> You have to realize that these emigration records cover only certain
> years--and not everybody is listed there.  None of my relatives are.  You're
> lucky if you find them!!
> If you still have trouble, let me  know personally and I will try to
> help.  Several people on the list have explained that the ordering process
> is fairly easy.  They will send you the records by regular mail and then you
> send the money ( I think  even a check will  do.)  I haven't done that part.
> It is relatively inexpensive, so I hear.  In the duplication of some names,
> I would not order records until you know whether it is your ancestor. You
> can always write to the addresses given above and maybe they can help you.
> As to what kind of information can be obtained by ordering records, I am
> including a translation of the forward from the Osnabrück page that was done
> by Fred Rump. See below.
> 
> Good luck!
> Barbara  
> 
> Vorword
> 
> Among the most significant social-historical phenonema of the 19th
> century was the emigration wave from German lands toward North
> America. The following directory attempts to encompass this
> emigration for the period of 1825 to 1870 for the then extant
> Landdrosteibezirk (regional administration) of Osnabrück which is
> composed out of the present Counties of Osnabrück, Emsland and
> Grafschaft Bentheim as well as the city of Osnabrück. The attempt to
> cull data out of the archive is obviously on a best effort basis and
> there is no way of knowing how many people emigrated without first
> obtaining permission. Estimates vary but illegal emigration could be
> as numerous as the legal ones.
> 
> Under emigration this document refers not only to the 'classical' use
> of the word where emigration meant to go overseas, but also any
> migration from the Kingdom of Hannover (since 1866, the Prussian
> province of Hannover) to another European state or German state. The
> given goal of destination  may not have corresponded with the actual
> goal quoted in the documents.
> 
> The source documents without exception were the files maintained by
> the Lower Saxon State Archives in Osnabrück.  Specifically the mid-
> level (Landdrostei) and lower level regional (Ämter, Vogteien)
> administrative districts as well as those documents held by the
> archive from the various city archives (for example, Osnabrück,
> Bramsche, Lingen, Neuenhaus & Quakenbrück).
> 
> The schema (classification) is ordered based upon the administrative
> districts used in the second half of the 19th century by the
> Landdrostei region of Osnabrück and encompasses next to the four
> independent cities of Lingen, Melle, Osnabrück and Quakenbrück the
> various Ämter (districts) which were in turn devided up into
> Kirchspiele (parishes).  Within the parishes the emigrants are listed
> alphabetically. The source references about any individual emigrant
> are further ordered along the following schema: (1) Name and place of
> residence, (2) date of birth or age and a birthplace if other then
> the place of residence, (3) occupation, (4) name of the parents, (5)
> family members also emigrating with reference as to their
> relationship such as wife, brother, daughter, son etc., (6) religious
> affiliation, (7) goal of emigration, (8) emigrations timing,
> mentioned is the exact date but sometimes only the year an emigration
> pass, a consent agreement was issued or the year the home residence
> was vacated, (9) value of possessions, (10) comments, here follows an
> abbreviated explanation giving the reasons of emigration for example
> via references to family status or economical situations.
> 
> Archivist Herbert Budde did the analysis of the documents. He had
> completed this task in 1982. Data entry was accomplished using
> various available labor resources. The primary destination goal of
> the emigrants leaving the area of Osnabrück was the USA with the most
> often given city destinations being: Baltimore, Cincinnati, New York
> and St. Louis. The city of Milwaukee, as well as the state of
> Wisconsin, appear noticeably seldom in the sources even though this
> area was a main destination of German emigration to America. People
> from Osnabrück also emigrated to Argentina, Australia and Brazil. One
> even finds individuals going to Chile, Cuba and the Dutch East/West
> Indies.  The Netherlands without question dominates the number of
> emigrants within the European state system. One needs to remember
> though that the often mentioned goal of Amsterdam was not necessarily
> a final destination point for the folks going there. It may well have
> been nothing but an interim stop over for people going somewhere
> overseas. The difficulties and dangers of an overseas emigration in
> the 19th century can not be overemphasized - in the beginning it was
> on sailboats and later on steamers. The most common explanation of
> the 'why' of emigration that is revealed by the documents is the hope
> for a 'better life'. By itself this indicates that the predominant
> emigration push comes from the lowest and underprivileged social
> strata of society who would dare all to achieve their goal especially
> for their children. In the emigrant records of the people from
> Osnabrück the most common occupations listed are maid, male and
> female farm servants or day laborers. We can therefore assume that
> the majority of the emigrants were landless and dependent workers in
> a largely agrarian society. On the other hand we also find many
> craftsmen and laborers. To complete the scenario there were
> sculptors, men of the cloth, gymnasts and literary types who also made their
> way overseas. 
> 
>




on 2/7/06 4:40 AM, GapCreek at gapcreek(a)qldnet.com.au wrote:

> Hullo Barbara,
> 
> Can you tell me more about the above list.  I have family that came from
> Hannover to Australia and great-uncles that went to America.  Would I be
> able to locate how and when they left Hannover?
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Marlene
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index
> 
> 
> I'll send it to you privately since it is lengthy and has been posted on
> this list several times.
> Barbara
> 
> 
> on 2/6/06 10:36 AM, GERALD BAILEY at gbailey(a)flash.net wrote:
> 
>> What is the address for this list as I have several
>> family members from germany and would like to find how
>> they got to the USA and at what time. They came from
>> Hannover Germany. The Hannover Emigration Index may
>> help find out. Thanks
>> 
>> --- pharmaxx(a)charter.net wrote:
>> 
>>> ---- dupaix37(a)comcast.net wrote:
>>>> Here is a success story.  First, I want to thank
>>> Barbara for posting all of the information and
>>> instructions for the on-line Hannover Emigration
>>> Index.  I found my great great grandfather Heinrich
>>> WIEDEBUSCH and family on the list.  Unfortunately
>>> the archives  didn't respond to my request.
>>> Fortunately, I found an excellent researcher who
>>> goes to the Hannover area twice a year to visit her
>>> sister and do genealogy work.  She located the list
>>> which gave the name of the village, Meinbrexen, for
>>> Heinrich.  She was able then to take parts of the
>>> line back to the early 1600s.  And from that record
>>> I have the village of my great great grandmother,
>>> Louisa GIESLER--Lauenförde.  This is a line that I
>>> never thought that I would be able to locate because
>>> I only had the general locations of Hannover and
>>> Braunschweig to go by.  Than you Barbara.   Carol
>>> DuPaix
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>>> 
>>> 
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>> 
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Web-Präsenz Dörry - Namens-Verzeichnis

Date: 2006/02/07 21:28:51
From: Rainer Dörry <rainer(a)rainer-doerry.de>

hallo Suchende,

nachdem ich nun in wochenlanger Arbeit eine Menge Familien-Chroniken
erfasst habe, habe ich nun das Ergebnis meiner Familienforschung im
Internet verfügbar gemacht. Unter dem Link
http://www.rainer-doerry.de/Ahnenforschung/html/familie_dorry.html
sind nun folgende Namen abrufbar:
Albrecht, Apel, Baars, Baermann, Ballak, Barckhoffs, Beck, Becker,
Beckermann, Beckmann, Beda, Beger, Behmer, Benickendorff, von Berge, von
Bergen, Bergius, Berringer, Bertrand, Beste, Beyer, von Bischelsdorf,
Bläske, Blattert, Böck, Boehm, Boehmer, Böhm, Bollmann, Bones, Böning,
Boog, Bornemann, Bradfisch, Brakemeier, Brandes, Bratfisch, Brehmer,
Broders, Brunotten, Bruyère, Bühlen, Bulke, von Bülow, von
Bultzingslöwen, Bürmann, Burmeister, Chemnitz, von Clodt, Cohn, Colditz,
Cooper, Courtney, Damron, Dennstedt, Diehl, Diestel-Feddersen, Dircks,
Doerry, Dölle, Domke, Dörrien, Dörry, Dorry, Dreischer, Dreyer, Dülberg,
Ebeling, Ebolé, Eggeling, Ehrich, Elliot, Elvers, Erichs, Fieze, von
Finkenstein, Fleischer, Fromm, Gebler, Geddert, Gerbet, Gesell, Globus,
Geyer, Smuel, Goß, Goeß, Gruss, Haag, Hantke, von Hardenberg, Harleb,
Harlepp, Harsleben, Harting, Havemann, Hecker, Heiber, Hein, Heinius,
Heinsius, Heinzemann, Heisen, Helbing, Henning, Hentschel, Hentzen,
Herrschel, Hitchcock, Hollmann, Holzbock, Hon, Hoppe, Hübner, Huppertz,
Jahn, Janjack, Janssen, von Jargow, Jaspers, Joren, Kelly, Kirsch,
Kleinert, Knierim, Koch, Koeppel, Kohrs, Korgitzsch, Krabs, Kramer,
Kröger, Krügel, Krüger, Kühn, Kuntze, von Kusenberg, Kypcke, Lange,
Laßnack, Laub, Laufert, Leichner, Lerche, von Linden, Lindenberg, von
Line, von der Lith, Lüsterer, Maks, Malsy, Mansfeld, Marckwert, Maring,
Markwert, Marquard, Marquardt, Mayr, Mende, Menzel, Merkel, Meyer,
Meynen, Mielke, von Minnigerode, Mohnkopf, Molinié, Molkau, Mönch,
Muche, Müller, Muth, Nolte, Nordhoff, Ostertag, Peitzner, Penner,
Petersen, Pforte, Plamann, Ploigt, Pohl, Prätorius, Raich, Reichelt,
Reimann, Reinhard, Reinke, Reitinger, Richmann, Richter, Risselmann,
Rittmeier, Robinson, Rohden, Roseveare, Rübenkam, Rudersdorf, Rusche,
Sahm, Saint Paul, Salzwedel, Samorska, Sartorius, Schäfer, Scharff,
Scharlach, Schauer, Schechner, Scheidemantel, von Schlichting,
Schlüchterer, Schmidt, Schöpe, Schöpff, Schrödter, Schubert, Schulz,
Schulze, Sehring, von Splittgerber, Stein, von Stopler, Stöwe, Struß,
von Tastungen, Temmink, Thostmann, Thurau, Tietz, Topp, Trier, Uchtmann,
Ummen, Van Kirk, Versteeg, Viereck, Vigilantius, Vogtbender, Voigt,
Volkers, Volkmann, Vordenker, Vosbein, Wahl, Walther, Wegener,
Weißenhorn, Wendhausen, Wesenfeld, Wessel, Wessels, von Westernhagen,
Westphal, Wisse, Witzel, Wolters, Würfel, Zarneckow, von Zastrow,
Zimmermann, Zollenkopf, Zoller

Die Reichweite der Namen umfasst den gesamten Norden Deutschlands von
Schleswig-Holstein über Niedersachsen, Brandenburg-Berlin, Thüringen,
Sachsen, Sachsen-Anhalt, Neumark, Pommern, Posen, Ostpreußen bis St.
Petersburg. Einige Einträge sind auch in Groß-Britannien, USA und
Westindien zu finden.
Wer Anknüpfungspunkte findet, sollte sich zwecks Datenaustausch melden.
Viele Namens-Nennungen rund um Freunde, Nachbarn, Berufskollegen usw.
sind in dieser Liste noch nicht erfasst und werden zu späterer Zeit in
die Datenbanken einfließen.
Derzeit kämpfe ich noch um die Zuordnung der einzelnen genannten Orte,
ob diese nun in die Neumark, nach Pommern oder Posen gehören.

Viele Grüße

Rainer [Dörry]



--
Rainer Doerry, Paradiesstr. 28, 65396 Walluf
Tel.: 06123-993221 - Fax: 01212-5-114-27-216
Handy: 0173-3100315 - email: rainer(a)rainer-doerry.de
http://www.rainer-doerry.de/Ahnenforschung/





[HN] Emigration Records website

Date: 2006/02/08 01:46:42
From: dupaix37 <dupaix37(a)comcast.net>

 Searching the Osnabrück, Hannover, Wolfenbüttel emigration records is done
by going to the website:
   http://app.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/findbuch/

Re: [HN] Wingerberg / kl. Hamberg

Date: 2006/02/08 04:56:22
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Jan,

     I found this obituary which is about Harold Joseph Logan who died at
the age of 88 in Santa Barbara, California and is the son of Hugh Benedict
Logan and Wilhelmine Margaret Salzer. Perhaps this is a decendant of Gerard
Wingerberg. Here is the website--go down until you see Harold Joseph Logan:

http://www.obitcentral.com/obitsearch/obits/ca/ca-santabarbara34.htm

Barbara




on 2/1/06 1:38 PM, Jan Timphaus at jan(a)timphaus.de wrote:

> Hello together,
> 
> 
> 
> i´m looking for descants of following person:
> 
> 
> 
> Gerhard Wingerberg  (kleine Hamberg) from Westerholte, Ankum, Germany.
> 
> a.    Born round about 1841
> b.    Emmigrated 1875 to the United States
> c.    Died in age of 99
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He had 2 daughters:
> 
> Elisabeth was married to a man with the surname Brooks. She died in age of
> 106 years.
> 
> Wilhelmine was married to a man with the surname Salzer. She died in age of
> 82 years.
> 
> Both died in the USA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I´m looking forward to hear something from someone over the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> 
> 
> Jan Timphaus
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/08 06:18:29
From: Dave B. <oakville.blackwalnut(a)gmail.com>

Do you know how much it would cost per record and for postage?  Or is
there an order form that can be printed out?  I see a few names which
I believe to be my ancestors.

Dave




> Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 12:20:52 -0700
> From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index
> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>
> Here it is:
> >
> > Searching the Osnabrück, Hannover, Wolfenbüttel emigration records is done
> > by going to the website:
> >
> > http://app.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/findbuch/
> >
> > It is a little confusing to use, especially if you don't  know German.  On
> > the first page:
> > Choose one of the three locations on the bar & click Abschicken
> > Go to Index  in the middle  of the  page and click
> > Fill in the surname you are looking for in the box "Suchbegriff"
> > Choose Personen where it says nach Ort
> > Click on Suchen starten and you will get a list of persons who emigrated
> > from Germany with that name.  Or you may get nothing! Try the same search on
> > all 3 locations.
> > Note the number on the right column. That number will direct you to the
> > town later.  Click on a name that matches a person you are looking for and
> > you will get a code that will be what you use to order the record.
> > Finding what area the person comes from is not easy.  On the Hannover
> > site, it often names a town right in the code.  For Osnabrück it is harder,
> > although it sometimes names the town or part of it. Don't  presume anything
> > about the town . You need to go back to the page where you first clicked on
> > Index and this time click on Gliederung.
> > There you will see a list of towns and if you click on the numbers on
> > the left, you will get a listing of the numbers of people who emigrated from
> > that area.  The numbers start with 1 and go up from there.  So if the number
> > is 5 digits it will be closer to the bottom of the list. But you have to go
> > to the  one that has the number in it from the right column of the page with
> > the list of names. When  you find the right one, the code will match the
> > code you saw earlier tied to the name you were looking  for. I know this is
> > confusing.  I have explained  the process many times on this site and it
> > never  is very clear!
> > Then, you can order the records from one of the 3 locations.  The email
> > addresses are:
>     Hannover(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
>     osnabueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
> > Wolfenbüttel  - poststelle(a)staatsarchiv-wf.niedersachsen.de
> >                         (this email address may not be current.)
> > You have to realize that these emigration records cover only certain
> > years--and not everybody is listed there.  None of my relatives are.  You're
> > lucky if you find them!!
> > If you still have trouble, let me  know personally and I will try to
> > help.  Several people on the list have explained that the ordering process
> > is fairly easy.  They will send you the records by regular mail and then you
> > send the money ( I think  even a check will  do.)  I haven't done that part.
> > It is relatively inexpensive, so I hear.  In the duplication of some names,
> > I would not order records until you know whether it is your ancestor. You
> > can always write to the addresses given above and maybe they can help you.
> > As to what kind of information can be obtained by ordering records, I am
> > including a translation of the forward from the Osnabrück page that was done
> > by Fred Rump. See below.
> >
> > Good luck!
> > Barbara
> >
> > Vorword
> >
> > Among the most significant social-historical phenonema of the 19th
> > century was the emigration wave from German lands toward North
> > America. The following directory attempts to encompass this
> > emigration for the period of 1825 to 1870 for the then extant
> > Landdrosteibezirk (regional administration) of Osnabrück which is
> > composed out of the present Counties of Osnabrück, Emsland and
> > Grafschaft Bentheim as well as the city of Osnabrück. The attempt to
> > cull data out of the archive is obviously on a best effort basis and
> > there is no way of knowing how many people emigrated without first
> > obtaining permission. Estimates vary but illegal emigration could be
> > as numerous as the legal ones.
> >
> > Under emigration this document refers not only to the 'classical' use
> > of the word where emigration meant to go overseas, but also any
> > migration from the Kingdom of Hannover (since 1866, the Prussian
> > province of Hannover) to another European state or German state. The
> > given goal of destination  may not have corresponded with the actual
> > goal quoted in the documents.
> >
> > The source documents without exception were the files maintained by
> > the Lower Saxon State Archives in Osnabrück.  Specifically the mid-
> > level (Landdrostei) and lower level regional (Ämter, Vogteien)
> > administrative districts as well as those documents held by the
> > archive from the various city archives (for example, Osnabrück,
> > Bramsche, Lingen, Neuenhaus & Quakenbrück).
> >
> > The schema (classification) is ordered based upon the administrative
> > districts used in the second half of the 19th century by the
> > Landdrostei region of Osnabrück and encompasses next to the four
> > independent cities of Lingen, Melle, Osnabrück and Quakenbrück the
> > various Ämter (districts) which were in turn devided up into
> > Kirchspiele (parishes).  Within the parishes the emigrants are listed
> > alphabetically. The source references about any individual emigrant
> > are further ordered along the following schema: (1) Name and place of
> > residence, (2) date of birth or age and a birthplace if other then
> > the place of residence, (3) occupation, (4) name of the parents, (5)
> > family members also emigrating with reference as to their
> > relationship such as wife, brother, daughter, son etc., (6) religious
> > affiliation, (7) goal of emigration, (8) emigrations timing,
> > mentioned is the exact date but sometimes only the year an emigration
> > pass, a consent agreement was issued or the year the home residence
> > was vacated, (9) value of possessions, (10) comments, here follows an
> > abbreviated explanation giving the reasons of emigration for example
> > via references to family status or economical situations.
> >
> > Archivist Herbert Budde did the analysis of the documents. He had
> > completed this task in 1982. Data entry was accomplished using
> > various available labor resources. The primary destination goal of
> > the emigrants leaving the area of Osnabrück was the USA with the most
> > often given city destinations being: Baltimore, Cincinnati, New York
> > and St. Louis. The city of Milwaukee, as well as the state of
> > Wisconsin, appear noticeably seldom in the sources even though this
> > area was a main destination of German emigration to America. People
> > from Osnabrück also emigrated to Argentina, Australia and Brazil. One
> > even finds individuals going to Chile, Cuba and the Dutch East/West
> > Indies.  The Netherlands without question dominates the number of
> > emigrants within the European state system. One needs to remember
> > though that the often mentioned goal of Amsterdam was not necessarily
> > a final destination point for the folks going there. It may well have
> > been nothing but an interim stop over for people going somewhere
> > overseas. The difficulties and dangers of an overseas emigration in
> > the 19th century can not be overemphasized - in the beginning it was
> > on sailboats and later on steamers. The most common explanation of
> > the 'why' of emigration that is revealed by the documents is the hope
> > for a 'better life'. By itself this indicates that the predominant
> > emigration push comes from the lowest and underprivileged social
> > strata of society who would dare all to achieve their goal especially
> > for their children. In the emigrant records of the people from
> > Osnabrück the most common occupations listed are maid, male and
> > female farm servants or day laborers. We can therefore assume that
> > the majority of the emigrants were landless and dependent workers in
> > a largely agrarian society. On the other hand we also find many
> > craftsmen and laborers. To complete the scenario there were
> > sculptors, men of the cloth, gymnasts and literary types who also made their
> > way overseas.

Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/08 07:00:03
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

on 2/7/06 10:18 PM, Dave B. at oakville.blackwalnut(a)gmail.com wrote:

> Do you know how much it would cost per record and for postage?  Or is
> there an order form that can be printed out?  I see a few names which
> I believe to be my ancestors.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 


Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/08 07:06:29
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Dave,
      Sorry about the previous email without my comments.  I hit the wrong
thing and off it went!
      I have never ordered anything from the archives. In the past, people
have said that the bill was somewhere between 23 to 30 euros.  Of course,
that would vary depending on the number of records you received.  You
certainly could ask the people in the archive office how much it would cost.
Just write an email and ask them. Some people use Paypal (www.paypal.com)
which makes paying easy.
    I still am not sure about the Wolfenbüttel email address--the others
have changed theirs.
Good luck,
Barbara




on 2/7/06 10:18 PM, Dave B. at oakville.blackwalnut(a)gmail.com wrote:

> Do you know how much it would cost per record and for postage?  Or is
> there an order form that can be printed out?  I see a few names which
> I believe to be my ancestors.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 


[HN] Neuvorstellung / suche MAUSOLF

Date: 2006/02/08 11:32:23
From: frali17 <frali17(a)freenet.de>

Hallo an alle,

Ich bin Neu in der Liste und möchte mich gerne vorstellen.
Mein Name ist Frank Lindemann, ich bin 43 Jahre jung
und betreibe seit ca. 5 Jahren Familienforschung.

Ich suche nach meiner Familie mit dem Namen MAUSOLF.
Diese kamen aus dem Kreis Schlochau. Ein Teil der Familie 
ging ins Ruhrgebiet. Der andere Teil ließ sich in oder um 
Hannover nieder. Diesen Teil aus Hannover suche ich nun.
Meine MAUSOLF´S sind ca. 1922 aus dem Kreis Schlochau
ausgewandert. Meine bisherigen Versuche z.b. Telefonbuch
verliefen negativ. Ich hoffe hier kann mir jemand weiterhelfen.

Viele Grüße   Frank Lindemann

Re: [HN] Neuvorstellung / suche MAUSOLF

Date: 2006/02/08 12:44:12
From: Harald Kemm <harald.kemm(a)freenet.de>

----- Original Message -----
From: "frali17" <frali17(a)freenet.de>


>Hallo an alle,

>Ich bin Neu in der Liste und möchte mich gerne vorstellen.
>Mein Name ist Frank Lindemann, ich bin 43 Jahre jung
>und betreibe seit ca. 5 Jahren Familienforschung.

>Ich suche nach meiner Familie mit dem Namen MAUSOLF.
>Diese kamen aus dem Kreis Schlochau. Ein Teil der Familie
>ging ins Ruhrgebiet. Der andere Teil ließ sich in oder um
>Hannover nieder. Diesen Teil aus Hannover suche ich nun.
>Meine MAUSOLF´S sind ca. 1922 aus dem Kreis Schlochau
>ausgewandert. Meine bisherigen Versuche z.b. Telefonbuch
>verliefen negativ. Ich hoffe hier kann mir jemand weiterhelfen.

>Viele Grüße   Frank Lindemann



Hallo Frank,

meine Frau hatte wärend ihrer Schulzeit einen Klassenkameraden der MAUSOLF
hieß, leider weiß keiner wo der abgeblieben ist.

Im Einwohnerbuch der Stadt Barsinghausen aus dem Jahre 1997 steht ein

MAUSOLF, Heinz
Stifterweg 10
30890 Barsinghausen

ohne Telefoneintrag.

Leider kann ich Dir nicht mit mehr Daten dienen, aber ich würde den einfach
mal anschreiben.

Viel Erfolg und viele Grüße aus Barsinghausen
Harald (Kemm)
harald.kemm(a)freenet.de



Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/08 13:53:35
From: Dave B. <oakville.blackwalnut(a)gmail.com>

Barbara,

Thanks for the info.

Dave



> Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 23:06:20 -0700
> From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index
> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>
> Dave,
>       Sorry about the previous email without my comments.  I hit the wrong
> thing and off it went!
>       I have never ordered anything from the archives. In the past, people
> have said that the bill was somewhere between 23 to 30 euros.  Of course,
> that would vary depending on the number of records you received.  You
> certainly could ask the people in the archive office how much it would cost.
> Just write an email and ask them. Some people use Paypal (www.paypal.com)
> which makes paying easy.
>     I still am not sure about the Wolfenbüttel email address--the others
> have changed theirs.
> Good luck,
> Barbara

Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/08 15:50:12
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi Dave,
 
I recently enquired about getting a document from the Osnabruck center and the cost of such a document is outlined in the response that I show below. I have given them the go ahead to do the research but have not seen the results yet so I do not know the total cost including shipping. I hope to know that within a week at which time I will post the total cost for those interseted in the information.
 
Barney Speckman 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Dear Mr Speckman,
The charges for inquiries, written information and other comparable services
within the framework of genealogical research depend on the time spent on
the particular request - regardless of its outcome. I must charge you 10,00
EUR for every quarter of an hour. The processing of your inquiry will
probably take a quarter of an hour. You can get copies of the emigration
record concerning Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann (approximately 3 - 5 pages
as experience shows) for 3,00 EUR per order (basic charge) + 0,50 EUR (A4)
or 0,80 EUR (A3) + delivery costs. The exact costs can only be determined
after conclusion of my work on your query. You can pay the bill by check.
Please let me know if you want us to carry out the research for you. 
Yours sincerely
pp Tanja Volley
Nds. Landesarchiv - Staatsarchiv Osnabrück
Schloßstraße 29
49074 Osnabrück
Telefon: 0541/33162-26
Telefax: 0541/33162-62
E-Mail: tanja.volley(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave B. <oakville.blackwalnut(a)gmail.com>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 21:18:17 -0800
Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index


Do you know how much it would cost per record and for postage?  Or is
there an order form that can be printed out?  I see a few names which
I believe to be my ancestors.

Dave




> Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 12:20:52 -0700
> From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index
> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>
> Here it is:
> >
> > Searching the Osnabrück, Hannover, Wolfenbüttel emigration records is done
> > by going to the website:
> >
> > http://app.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/findbuch/
> >
> > It is a little confusing to use, especially if you don't  know German.  On
> > the first page:
> > Choose one of the three locations on the bar & click Abschicken
> > Go to Index  in the middle  of the  page and click
> > Fill in the surname you are looking for in the box "Suchbegriff"
> > Choose Personen where it says nach Ort
> > Click on Suchen starten and you will get a list of persons who emigrated
> > from Germany with that name.  Or you may get nothing! Try the same search on
> > all 3 locations.
> > Note the number on the right column. That number will direct you to the
> > town later.  Click on a name that matches a person you are looking for and
> > you will get a code that will be what you use to order the record.
> > Finding what area the person comes from is not easy.  On the Hannover
> > site, it often names a town right in the code.  For Osnabrück it is harder,
> > although it sometimes names the town or part of it. Don't  presume anything
> > about the town . You need to go back to the page where you first clicked on
> > Index and this time click on Gliederung.
> > There you will see a list of towns and if you click on the numbers on
> > the left, you will get a listing of the numbers of people who emigrated from
> > that area.  The numbers start with 1 and go up from there.  So if the number
> > is 5 digits it will be closer to the bottom of the list. But you have to go
> > to the  one that has the number in it from the right column of the page with
> > the list of names. When  you find the right one, the code will match the
> > code you saw earlier tied to the name you were looking  for. I know this is
> > confusing.  I have explained  the process many times on this site and it
> > never  is very clear!
> > Then, you can order the records from one of the 3 locations.  The email
> > addresses are:
>     Hannover(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
>     osnabueck(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
> > Wolfenbüttel  - poststelle(a)staatsarchiv-wf.niedersachsen.de
> >                         (this email address may not be current.)
> > You have to realize that these emigration records cover only certain
> > years--and not everybody is listed there.  None of my relatives are.  You're
> > lucky if you find them!!
> > If you still have trouble, let me  know personally and I will try to
> > help.  Several people on the list have explained that the ordering process
> > is fairly easy.  They will send you the records by regular mail and then you
> > send the money ( I think  even a check will  do.)  I haven't done that part.
> > It is relatively inexpensive, so I hear.  In the duplication of some names,
> > I would not order records until you know whether it is your ancestor. You
> > can always write to the addresses given above and maybe they can help you.
> > As to what kind of information can be obtained by ordering records, I am
> > including a translation of the forward from the Osnabrück page that was done
> > by Fred Rump. See below.
> >
> > Good luck!
> > Barbara
> >
> > Vorword
> >
> > Among the most significant social-historical phenonema of the 19th
> > century was the emigration wave from German lands toward North
> > America. The following directory attempts to encompass this
> > emigration for the period of 1825 to 1870 for the then extant
> > Landdrosteibezirk (regional administration) of Osnabrück which is
> > composed out of the present Counties of Osnabrück, Emsland and
> > Grafschaft Bentheim as well as the city of Osnabrück. The attempt to
> > cull data out of the archive is obviously on a best effort basis and
> > there is no way of knowing how many people emigrated without first
> > obtaining permission. Estimates vary but illegal emigration could be
> > as numerous as the legal ones.
> >
> > Under emigration this document refers not only to the 'classical' use
> > of the word where emigration meant to go overseas, but also any
> > migration from the Kingdom of Hannover (since 1866, the Prussian
> > province of Hannover) to another European state or German state. The
> > given goal of destination  may not have corresponded with the actual
> > goal quoted in the documents.
> >
> > The source documents without exception were the files maintained by
> > the Lower Saxon State Archives in Osnabrück.  Specifically the mid-
> > level (Landdrostei) and lower level regional (Ämter, Vogteien)
> > administrative districts as well as those documents held by the
> > archive from the various city archives (for example, Osnabrück,
> > Bramsche, Lingen, Neuenhaus & Quakenbrück).
> >
> > The schema (classification) is ordered based upon the administrative
> > districts used in the second half of the 19th century by the
> > Landdrostei region of Osnabrück and encompasses next to the four
> > independent cities of Lingen, Melle, Osnabrück and Quakenbrück the
> > various Ämter (districts) which were in turn devided up into
> > Kirchspiele (parishes).  Within the parishes the emigrants are listed
> > alphabetically. The source references about any individual emigrant
> > are further ordered along the following schema: (1) Name and place of
> > residence, (2) date of birth or age and a birthplace if other then
> > the place of residence, (3) occupation, (4) name of the parents, (5)
> > family members also emigrating with reference as to their
> > relationship such as wife, brother, daughter, son etc., (6) religious
> > affiliation, (7) goal of emigration, (8) emigrations timing,
> > mentioned is the exact date but sometimes only the year an emigration
> > pass, a consent agreement was issued or the year the home residence
> > was vacated, (9) value of possessions, (10) comments, here follows an
> > abbreviated explanation giving the reasons of emigration for example
> > via references to family status or economical situations.
> >
> > Archivist Herbert Budde did the analysis of the documents. He had
> > completed this task in 1982. Data entry was accomplished using
> > various available labor resources. The primary destination goal of
> > the emigrants leaving the area of Osnabrück was the USA with the most
> > often given city destinations being: Baltimore, Cincinnati, New York
> > and St. Louis. The city of Milwaukee, as well as the state of
> > Wisconsin, appear noticeably seldom in the sources even though this
> > area was a main destination of German emigration to America. People
> > from Osnabrück also emigrated to Argentina, Australia and Brazil. One
> > even finds individuals going to Chile, Cuba and the Dutch East/West
> > Indies.  The Netherlands without question dominates the number of
> > emigrants within the European state system. One needs to remember
> > though that the often mentioned goal of Amsterdam was not necessarily
> > a final destination point for the folks going there. It may well have
> > been nothing but an interim stop over for people going somewhere
> > overseas. The difficulties and dangers of an overseas emigration in
> > the 19th century can not be overemphasized - in the beginning it was
> > on sailboats and later on steamers. The most common explanation of
> > the 'why' of emigration that is revealed by the documents is the hope
> > for a 'better life'. By itself this indicates that the predominant
> > emigration push comes from the lowest and underprivileged social
> > strata of society who would dare all to achieve their goal especially
> > for their children. In the emigrant records of the people from
> > Osnabrück the most common occupations listed are maid, male and
> > female farm servants or day laborers. We can therefore assume that
> > the majority of the emigrants were landless and dependent workers in
> > a largely agrarian society. On the other hand we also find many
> > craftsmen and laborers. To complete the scenario there were
> > sculptors, men of the cloth, gymnasts and literary types who also made their
> > way overseas.
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Ongoing Serach For Speckman

Date: 2006/02/08 16:06:38
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi Hannover Sleuths,
 
Thanks to many fine suggestions from you all, I have been able to advance my search for my Great Grandfather Frederick F Speckman(n) from the 1870 US Census to his entry into the US in 1860. The details of his entry are as follows:
 
Entered in New York, at Castle Garden
Date June 6 1860 arrival
Name Fredk Speckmann
Age 16
Ocupation Farmer
Ship Elizabeth
 
I am trying to obtain a copy of the record from New York. Meanwhile I am tryng to find out if there is a way to search from the other end (Germany), knowing the arrival date and ships's name. That is, are there lists of emigrants leaving from Germany based upon date and ship?
 
Any help would be apprecaited,
 
Thanks,
 
Barney Speckman 

Re: [HN] Ongoing Serach For Speckman

Date: 2006/02/08 16:34:48
From: MagdalenaJLM <MagdalenaJLM(a)aol.com>

Yes, you can seach by a date or by a ship.

Have a Nice Day!  Jill


I am currently researching the following names:
Barlag,Bochenski,Bogdanski,Bredehoft,Brinkmann,Cawley,Ciesielski,Cieszkiewiez,
Drehs,Dress,Dufelmeyer,Dufelmeier,Fuelling/Fulling,Frese,Fresen,Hunken,Klindtw
orth,Hirschy,Jalonski,Kaminski,Kozielecki,Kozielewski,Kurgan,Leimkuehler,Leime
nkuhler,Lydon,Mazgaj,Mesch,Obyc,Oesterhagen,Ostmeier/Ostmeyer,Obrock,Piechalsk
i,Pieper,Poertner,Pranten,Quell,Rak,Reker,Redecker,Schwetscher,Speckmann,Sprin
ghorn,Thiessecharpen/Thieschaper,Thunhorst,Viel/Viets,Vischer,Winteregg,Wistin
ghausen,Wolers,/Wohlerst,Zinzack, Zynczak,Zinczak
Jill Leimkuehler











(MagdalenaJLM(a)aol.com)

Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/08 18:09:28
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Barney-Barbara and others in the know,

I have deleted part of the thread for brevity.

Do you know if the same rules apply for Hannover and
Wolfenbüttel Staatsarchiv's.  I note that Tanja Volley's
response has an Osnabrück address and she makes reference
to the Staatsarchiv Osnabrück only.

Are the addresses different, are the rates different, are
different methods of payment required, will they respond
in English like Tanja did, etc.?????

Thank you,

Gale

PS My spell checker wanted to change Wolfenbüttel to Solvently. Is there a translation there, or is my computer just doing what it can with the information it has?

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:49:57 -0500
 bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:
Hi Dave,

I recently enquired about getting a document from the Osnabruck center and the cost of such a document is outlined in the response that I show below. I have given them the go ahead to do the research but have not seen the results yet so I do not know the total cost including shipping. I hope to know that within a week at which time I will post the total cost for those interseted in the information.

Barney Speckman
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr Speckman,
The charges for inquiries, written information and other comparable services within the framework of genealogical research depend on the time spent on the particular request - regardless of its outcome. I must charge you 10,00 EUR for every quarter of an hour. The processing of your inquiry will probably take a quarter of an hour. You can get copies of the emigration record concerning Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann (approximately 3 - 5 pages as experience shows) for 3,00 EUR per order (basic charge) + 0,50 EUR (A4) or 0,80 EUR (A3) + delivery costs. The exact costs can only be determined after conclusion of my work on your query. You can pay the bill by check. Please let me know if you want us to carry out the research for you. Yours sincerely
pp Tanja Volley
Nds. Landesarchiv - Staatsarchiv Osnabrück
Schloßstraße 29
49074 Osnabrück
Telefon: 0541/33162-26
Telefax: 0541/33162-62
E-Mail: tanja.volley(a)nla.niedersachsen.de


Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/08 18:34:44
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Everybody,

I have never ordered anything from the emigration archives, but I have saved
2 letters from people who have.  I include parts of their letters below
Barbara


This one is regarding Osnabrück:
I replied to their email form letter, indicating that I agreed to
their terms and requested the particular file on microfilm.  To my
pleasant surprise, the requested microfilm arrived in my postal box
within about a week, invoice included. (total cost 23.83 Euro)

I received 2 strips of film, one with 3 images and the other with 4
images (7 images total).  Within this total, 2 of the images were
duplicated, at slightly different exposures.  One of the images was
an image of a form with my order details.  So, the result was 4
images of information.


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
This one is from the Hannover archives written in April 2003
Starting with the "Findbuch"
http://app.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/findbuch/ , I selected the
Hannover archive and clicked on "Abschicken". I then clicked on "Index",
changed the  "Art de suche" to "nach Personen" and inserted the surname of a
person I was looking for in the "Suchbegriff" box. Inserting my ancestor
surname and clicking "Suche starten" I got a list of individuals with that
surname. One of the names had the same given names as my ancestor and by
clicking on the number in the column headed: "zur Akte" I got a
"Bestell-Nr." (order no.). Using the email address given on the home page
(poststelle(a)staatsarchiv-h.niedersachsen.de ) I asked for that Bestell-Nr. I
received a reply from an archivist asking if I really wanted all of that
order no. because it consisted of 700 pages. I replied back that I only
wanted records pertaining to specific names and gave them two names.

I didn't hear back via email, but two weeks later received material by mail.
In that material were both xerox copies and microfilm (35mm). The records of
my ancestor consisted of 5 pages. Four of those pages were a list of
Families or single individuals from the Amt (in this case Burgwedel) who
emigrated in the year 1858. The fifth page was a list of all who emigrated
from the Vogtei (a smaller jurisdiction or parish) Bissendorf.

The other name I gave them was a person who I knew emigrated alone and later
married my grandfather's sister. For him I got two different lists both
related to the military. Three pages were a cover page called a "Stammrolle"
(similar to a draft registration) and two pages consisting of list of males
born in 1847 to June 1848 in the Amt Burgwedel. The other list consisted of
a cover page called a "Geburtsliste" (birth list) and two pages consisting
of list of all males born in 1847 from a particular village. This last list
was compiled in 1868 and had a remarks column that indicated whether the
individual served in the military, was deceased or whether they emigrated.
Both of these lists had the birth date of the person, both parents names and
the village where he lived.

Included in the mailing was a bill which listed charges for paper and film
copies, archivist time and mailing costs which totaled 30.63 Euro.






on 2/8/06 10:09 AM, gale(a)bosche.info at gale(a)bosche.info wrote:

> Hi Barney-Barbara and others in the know,
> 
> I have deleted part of the thread for brevity.
> 
> Do you know if the same rules apply for Hannover and
> Wolfenbüttel Staatsarchiv's.  I note that Tanja Volley's
> response has an Osnabrück address and she makes reference
> to the Staatsarchiv Osnabrück only.
> 
> Are the addresses different, are the rates different, are
> different methods of payment required, will they respond
> in English like Tanja did, etc.?????
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Gale
> 
> PS My spell checker wanted to change Wolfenbüttel to
> Solvently.  Is there a translation there, or is my
> computer just doing what it can with the information it
> has?
> 
> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:49:57 -0500
> bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:
>> Hi Dave,
>> 
>> I recently enquired about getting a document from the
>> Osnabruck center and the cost of such a document is
>> outlined in the response that I show below. I have given
>> them the go ahead to do the research but have not seen the
>> results yet so I do not know the total cost including
>> shipping. I hope to know that within a week at which time
>> I will post the total cost for those interseted in the
>> information.
>> 
>> Barney Speckman 
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Dear Mr Speckman,
>> The charges for inquiries, written information and other
>> comparable services
>> within the framework of genealogical research depend on
>> the time spent on
>> the particular request - regardless of its outcome. I
>> must charge you 10,00
>> EUR for every quarter of an hour. The processing of your
>> inquiry will
>> probably take a quarter of an hour. You can get copies
>> of the emigration
>> record concerning Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann
>> (approximately 3 - 5 pages
>> as experience shows) for 3,00 EUR per order (basic
>> charge) + 0,50 EUR (A4)
>> or 0,80 EUR (A3) + delivery costs. The exact costs can
>> only be determined
>> after conclusion of my work on your query. You can pay
>> the bill by check.
>> Please let me know if you want us to carry out the
>> research for you.
>> Yours sincerely
>> pp Tanja Volley
>> Nds. Landesarchiv - Staatsarchiv Osnabrück
>> Schloßstraße 29
>> 49074 Osnabrück
>> Telefon: 0541/33162-26
>> Telefax: 0541/33162-62
>> E-Mail: tanja.volley(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
>> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/08 18:46:40
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi Gale,
 
I believe that Tanya works on Osnabruck requests only, so I have no idea if the rates for other areas are the same or different. I reached Tanya by using the email adderss in Barbara's email. Barbara's directions also include email addresses for the other tow aeras so I would suggest you send them an email and ask about rates and process to be able to find out for sure.
 
Barney
 
-----Original Message-----
From: gale(a)bosche.info
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 12:09:09 -0500
Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index


Hi Barney-Barbara and others in the know, 
 
I have deleted part of the thread for brevity. 
 
Do you know if the same rules apply for Hannover and 
Wolfenbüttel Staatsarchiv's. I note that Tanja Volley's 
response has an Osnabrück address and she makes reference 
to the Staatsarchiv Osnabrück only. 
 
Are the addresses different, are the rates different, are 
different methods of payment required, will they respond 
in English like Tanja did, etc.????? 
 
Thank you, 
 
Gale 
 
PS My spell checker wanted to change Wolfenbüttel to Solvently. Is there a translation there, or is my computer just doing what it can with the information it has? 
 
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:49:57 -0500 
 bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote: 
> Hi Dave, 
> > I recently enquired about getting a document from the >Osnabruck center and the cost of such a document is >outlined in the response that I show below. I have given >them the go ahead to do the research but have not seen the >results yet so I do not know the total cost including >shipping. I hope to know that within a week at which time >I will post the total cost for those interseted in the >information. 
> > Barney Speckman > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> > Dear Mr Speckman, 
> The charges for inquiries, written information and other >comparable services 
> within the framework of genealogical research depend on >the time spent on 
> the particular request - regardless of its outcome. I >must charge you 10,00 
> EUR for every quarter of an hour. The processing of your >inquiry will 
> probably take a quarter of an hour. You can get copies >of the emigration 
> record concerning Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann >(approximately 3 - 5 pages 
> as experience shows) for 3,00 EUR per order (basic >charge) + 0,50 EUR (A4) 
> or 0,80 EUR (A3) + delivery costs. The exact costs can >only be determined 
> after conclusion of my work on your query. You can pay >the bill by check. 
> Please let me know if you want us to carry out the >research for you. > Yours sincerely 
> pp Tanja Volley 
> Nds. Landesarchiv - Staatsarchiv Osnabrück 
> Schloßstraße 29 
> 49074 Osnabrück 
> Telefon: 0541/33162-26 
> Telefax: 0541/33162-62 
> E-Mail: tanja.volley(a)nla.niedersachsen.de 
> ______________________________________________ 
 
Hannover-L mailing list 
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/08 19:02:47
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello,
      I have found the email address for the Wolfenbüttel archives.  The
email addresses of all 3 archives had changed.  Here's the one for
Wolfenbüttel:
   Wolfenbuettel(a)nla.niedersachsen.de

It's similar to the others, but I wanted to be sure.  I don't read German -
I only guess here and there, wandering around the Niedersachesen Archive
site.  Finally I got it:

   Wolfenbuettel(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
 
Barbara




on 2/8/06 10:46 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:

> Hi Gale,
> 
> I believe that Tanya works on Osnabruck requests only, so I have no idea if
> the rates for other areas are the same or different. I reached Tanya by using
> the email adderss in Barbara's email. Barbara's directions also include email
> addresses for the other tow aeras so I would suggest you send them an email
> and ask about rates and process to be able to find out for sure.
> 
> Barney
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gale(a)bosche.info
> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 12:09:09 -0500
> Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index
> 
> 
> Hi Barney-Barbara and others in the know,
> 
> I have deleted part of the thread for brevity.
> 
> Do you know if the same rules apply for Hannover and
> Wolfenbüttel Staatsarchiv's. I note that Tanja Volley's
> response has an Osnabrück address and she makes reference
> to the Staatsarchiv Osnabrück only.
> 
> Are the addresses different, are the rates different, are
> different methods of payment required, will they respond
> in English like Tanja did, etc.?????
> 
> Thank you, 
> 
> Gale 
> 
> PS My spell checker wanted to change Wolfenbüttel to Solvently. Is there a
> translation there, or is my computer just doing what it can with the
> information it has?
> 
> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:49:57 -0500
> bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:
>> Hi Dave, 
>>> I recently enquired about getting a document from the >Osnabruck center and
>>> the cost of such a document is >outlined in the response that I show below.
>>> I have given >them the go ahead to do the research but have not seen the
>>> >results yet so I do not know the total cost including >shipping. I hope to
>>> know that within a week at which time >I will post the total cost for those
>>> interseted in the >information.
>>> Barney Speckman > >
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Dear Mr Speckman,
>> The charges for inquiries, written information and other >comparable services
>> within the framework of genealogical research depend on >the time spent on
>> the particular request - regardless of its outcome. I >must charge you 10,00
>> EUR for every quarter of an hour. The processing of your >inquiry will
>> probably take a quarter of an hour. You can get copies >of the emigration
>> record concerning Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann >(approximately 3 - 5 pages
>> as experience shows) for 3,00 EUR per order (basic >charge) + 0,50 EUR (A4)
>> or 0,80 EUR (A3) + delivery costs. The exact costs can >only be determined
>> after conclusion of my work on your query. You can pay >the bill by check.
>> Please let me know if you want us to carry out the >research for you. > Yours
>> sincerely 
>> pp Tanja Volley 
>> Nds. Landesarchiv - Staatsarchiv Osnabrück
>> Schloßstraße 29 
>> 49074 Osnabrück 
>> Telefon: 0541/33162-26
>> Telefax: 0541/33162-62
>> E-Mail: tanja.volley(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
>> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] RAHENKAMP family

Date: 2006/02/08 20:04:33
From: Carol Payne <snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net>

Hello,

I would like to find more information on my great, great grandparents.

Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP

Born:  about 1820 in Kingdom of Hannover (probably in Schledenhausen,
Osnabruck district)

Parents: listed on Death Certificate as "Frederik and Maria Rahnkamp" - both
born in "Germany"

Immigrated to USA from Bremen via the ship George F. Patten, arriving in New
York on 3 October 1851.

He applied for U.S Citizenship on 18 November 1859 and was Naturalized on 14
April 1862.

Died: 18 September 1886 in Newark, New Jersey, USA
Buried in Woodland Cemetery, Newark, NJ, where he purchased a family lot on
19 October 1867.

His wife was Maria Elizabeth EBERHARDT, born about 1820 in Hannover,
Germany.  (Her parents were "Henry and Mary EBERHARDT", both born in
Germany.)  Maria died in Newark, New Jersey, USA, on 28 November 1887 and is
buried with her husband in Woodland Cemetery in Newark.

Their daughter, Anna Catherine Gertrude (RAHENKAMP) Wegener, was born 15
August 1849 in Hannover, Germany.  Anna immigrated with her parents in 1851
when she was 2 years old.  A record found in the Schledehausen (Lutheran)
Church states Catharine Gertrud RAHENKAMP was Christened on 26 August 1849.

I believe Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP must have had  siblings, and I also
believe Adam and his wife, Maria, had other children before Anna Catharine
Gertrud.  However, I have been unable to confirm any siblings or other
children.

I apologize for such a long posting, but I wanted to be sure to include all
the information currently known to me.

Any help in finding additional information on this family would be greatly
appreciated.

Regards,
Carol Payne in Oklahoma, USA
SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net



Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/08 22:25:42
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Barbara-Barney:


I have deleted part of the thread for brevity and limited
it to my last question on contacting and communication
with the Niedersachen Archives.

Thank you for your responses.

I think that the e-mail address Barbara listed:
Wolfenbuettel(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
and the one Barney listed:
tanja.volley(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
give me information which leads me to believe the one for
Hannover is:
Hannover(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
I used two "n's" as that is what they use on the web site.

I sent a test e-mail to that address 45 minutes ago and the web mailman has not returned it, so I believe it is valid.

I believe Fred Rump stated that just because a name was on
the archive list, didn't mean that the person listed
emmigrated.  My GF Bösche (not on the archive list) and
three of his sisters emmigrated.  What I am trying to
determine is wheather the other 9 family members on the
Archive list emmigrated.  I have not found them on any
census' I have looked at, except the KOH 1852.  If they
had emmigrated, I would believe that they would have gone
to the same place my GF did.  The reason I say that, it
looks like "Scotty, beamed" half of Anderten Amt. Hoya to
Crawford County Iowa.  There are decendents from 6 or 7
Anderten families still living in Crawford County.

Gale


On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 11:02:34 -0700
 R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net> wrote:
Hello,
I have found the email address for the Wolfenbüttel archives. The > email addresses of all 3 archives had changed. Here's >the one for > Wolfenbüttel:
  Wolfenbuettel(a)nla.niedersachsen.de

It's similar to the others, but I wanted to be sure. I don't read German - > I only guess here and there, wandering around the >Niedersachesen Archive > site. Finally I got it: > Wolfenbuettel(a)nla.niedersachsen.de

Barbara
> on 2/8/06 10:46 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:

Hi Gale,

I believe that Tanya works on Osnabruck requests only, so I have no idea if the rates for other areas are the same or different. I reached Tanya by using the email adderss in Barbara's email. Barbara's directions also include email addresses for the other tow aeras so I would suggest you send them an email and ask about rates and process to be able to find out for sure.

Barney

-----Original Message-----
From: gale(a)bosche.info
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 12:09:09 -0500
Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Hi Barney-Barbara and others in the know,

I have deleted part of the thread for brevity.

Do you know if the same rules apply for Hannover and
Wolfenbüttel Staatsarchiv's. I note that Tanja Volley's
response has an Osnabrück address and she makes reference to the Staatsarchiv Osnabrück only.

Are the addresses different, are the rates different, are different methods of payment required, will they respond in English like Tanja did, etc.?????

Thank you, Gale

Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/08 23:46:23
From: Dave B. <oakville.blackwalnut(a)gmail.com>

Barney,

Thanks for the info and I look forward to your next message on this subject.

Dave



> Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:49:57 -0500
> From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
> Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index
> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> I recently enquired about getting a document from the Osnabruck center
> and the cost of such a document is outlined in the response that I show
> below. I have given them the go ahead to do the research but have not
> seen the results yet so I do not know the total cost including shipping. I
> hope to know that within a week at which time I will post the total cost for
> those interseted in the information.
>
> Barney Speckman
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dear Mr Speckman,
> The charges for inquiries, written information and other comparable services
> within the framework of genealogical research depend on the time spent on
> the particular request - regardless of its outcome. I must charge you 10,00
> EUR for every quarter of an hour. The processing of your inquiry will
> probably take a quarter of an hour. You can get copies of the emigration
> record concerning Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann (approximately 3 - 5 pages
> as experience shows) for 3,00 EUR per order (basic charge) + 0,50 EUR (A4)
> or 0,80 EUR (A3) + delivery costs. The exact costs can only be determined
> after conclusion of my work on your query. You can pay the bill by check.
> Please let me know if you want us to carry out the research for you.
> Yours sincerely
> pp Tanja Volley
> Nds. Landesarchiv - Staatsarchiv Osnabrück
> Schloßstraße 29
> 49074 Osnabrück
> Telefon: 0541/33162-26
> Telefax: 0541/33162-62
> E-Mail: tanja.volley(a)nla.niedersachsen.de

Re: [HN] Ongoing Serach For Speckman

Date: 2006/02/08 23:52:05
From: Dave B. <oakville.blackwalnut(a)gmail.com>

Barney,

If your ancestor left from Hamburg, you're in luck:

http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/hamburg.html

The microfilmed Hamburg emigration records are easy to use if you know
the approximate date of departure and the name of the ship.

Dave



> Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 10:06:25 -0500
> From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
> Subject: [HN] Ongoing Serach For Speckman
> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
>
> Hi Hannover Sleuths,
>
> Thanks to many fine suggestions from you all, I have been able to advance
> my search for my Great Grandfather Frederick F Speckman(n) from the 1870
> US Census to his entry into the US in 1860. The details of his entry are as
> follows:
>
> Entered in New York, at Castle Garden
> Date June 6 1860 arrival
> Name Fredk Speckmann
> Age 16
> Ocupation Farmer
> Ship Elizabeth
>
> I am trying to obtain a copy of the record from New York. Meanwhile I am
> tryng to find out if there is a way to search from the other end (Germany),
> knowing the arrival date and ships's name. That is, are there lists of emigrants
> leaving from Germany based upon date and ship?
>
> Any help would be apprecaited,
>
> Thanks,
>
> Barney Speckman

[HN] RAHENKAMP family

Date: 2006/02/09 00:06:27
From: Carol Payne <snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net>

Hello,

I would like to find more information on my great, great grandparents.

Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP

Born:  about 1820 in Kingdom of Hannover (probably in Schledenhausen,
Osnabruck district)

Parents: listed on Death Certificate as "Frederik and Maria Rahnkamp" - both
born in "Germany"

Immigrated to USA from Bremen via the ship George F. Patten, arriving in New
York on 3 October 1851.

He applied for U.S Citizenship on 18 November 1859 and was Naturalized on 14
April 1862.

Died: 18 September 1886 in Newark, New Jersey, USA
Buried in Woodland Cemetery, Newark, NJ, where he purchased a family lot on
19 October 1867.

His wife was Maria Elizabeth EBERHARDT, born about 1820 in Hannover,
Germany.  (Her parents were "Henry and Mary EBERHARDT", both born in
Germany.)  Maria died in Newark, New Jersey, USA, on 28 November 1887 and is
buried with her husband in Woodland Cemetery in Newark.

Their daughter, Anna Catherine Gertrud (RAHENKAMP) Wegener, was born 15
August 1849 in Hannover, Germany.  Anna immigrated with her parents in 1851
when she was 2 years old.  A record found in the Schledehausen (Lutheran)
Church states Catharine Gertrud RAHENKAMP was Christened on 26 August 1849.

I believe Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP must have had  siblings, and I also
believe Adam and his wife, Maria, had other children before Anna Catharine
Gertrud.  However, I have been unable to confirm any siblings or other
children.

I apologize for such a long posting, but I wanted to be sure to include all
the information currently known to me.

Any help in finding additional information on this family would be greatly
appreciated.

Regards,
Carol Payne in Oklahoma, USA
SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net



Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/09 01:09:57
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hey People,
     You can't conclude anything definite about people not on the emigration
lists.  Those lists cover only a small number of persons who emigrated.
None of my relatives are on those lists.  In fact, what I have found during
the last couple years in helping other folks is that it is more likely that
your emigrant ancestors will not be on the lists. Why that is the case is
probably not known.  Furthermore, it doesn't include people from
Ostfriesland, Oldenburg, Hamburg, and other regions.
It is just the wonderful tool that indicates birthplace, which we all know
is key to further genealogical research.
Barbara
    




on 2/8/06 1:43 PM, gale(a)bosche.info at gale(a)bosche.info wrote:

> Hi Barbara-Barney:
> 
> 
> I have deleted part of the thread for brevity and limited
> it to my last question on contacting and communication
> with the Niedersachen Archives.
> 
> Thank you for your responses.
> 
> I think that the e-mail address Barbara listed:
> Wolfenbuettel(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
> and the one Barney listed:
> tanja.volley(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
> give me information which leads me to believe the one for
> Hannover is:
> Hannover(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
> I used two "n's" as that is what they use on the web site.
> 
> I sent a test e-mail to that address 45 minutes ago and
> the web mailman has not returned it, so I believe it is
> valid.
> 
> I believe Fred Rump stated that just because a name was on
> the archive list, didn't mean that the person listed
> emmigrated.  My GF Bösche (not on the archive list) and
> three of his sisters emmigrated.  What I am trying to
> determine is wheather the other 9 family members on the
> Archive list emmigrated.  I have not found them on any
> census' I have looked at, except the KOH 1852.  If they
> had emmigrated, I would believe that they would have gone
> to the same place my GF did.  The reason I say that, it
> looks like "Scotty, beamed" half of Anderten Amt. Hoya to
> Crawford County Iowa.  There are decendents from 6 or 7
> Anderten families still living in Crawford County.
> 
> Gale
> 
> 
> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 11:02:34 -0700
> R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I have found the email address for the Wolfenbüttel
>> archives.  The > email addresses of all 3 archives had
>> changed.  Here's >the one for > Wolfenbüttel:
>> Wolfenbuettel(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
>> 
>> It's similar to the others, but I wanted to be sure.  I
>> don't read German - > I only guess here and there,
>> wandering around the  >Niedersachesen Archive > site.
>> Finally I got it: >   Wolfenbuettel(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
>> 
>> Barbara
>>> 
>> on 2/8/06 10:46 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at
>> bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Gale,
>>> 
>>> I believe that Tanya works on Osnabruck requests only,
>>> so I have no idea if the rates for other areas are the
>>> same or different. I reached Tanya by using the email
>>> adderss in Barbara's email. Barbara's directions also
>>> include email addresses for the other tow aeras so I would
>>> suggest you send them an email and ask about rates and
>>> process to be able to find out for sure.
>>> 
>>> Barney
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gale(a)bosche.info
>>> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>>> Sent: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 12:09:09 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index
>>> 
>>> Hi Barney-Barbara and others in the know,
>>> 
>>> I have deleted part of the thread for brevity.
>>> 
>>> Do you know if the same rules apply for Hannover and
>>> Wolfenbüttel Staatsarchiv's. I note that Tanja Volley's
>>> response has an Osnabrück address and she makes
>>> reference to the Staatsarchiv Osnabrück only.
>>> 
>>> Are the addresses different, are the rates different,
>>> are different methods of payment required, will they
>>> respond in English like Tanja did, etc.?????
>>> 
>>> Thank you, 
>>> 
>>> Gale 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] RAHENKAMP family

Date: 2006/02/09 01:17:55
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Carol:

First, you are right to post all the information you have.

You would be supprised how many queries there are which simply state such as: "Does anyone have any information of Heinrich Schmidt born in Germany?"

Did you get your information about Catherine Gertrud from the LDS? I note that they have the following:

Kirchenbuchduplikat, 1822-1863 Evangelische Kirche Schledehausen (Kr. Osnabrück) You would think that there would be more information than for Catherine.

Staatsarchiv Osnabrück has the following listed:

PERS Rahenkamp, Christoph Heinrich 26089
PERS Rahenkamp, Clare Marie 26089
PERS Rahenkamp, Johann Friedrich 26089
PERS Rahenkamp, Marie Eleonore 26089
PERS Rahenkamp, Marie Gertrud 26089

Its there, you just have to find it (;.)

Gale

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:00:07 -0600
 "Carol Payne" <snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net> wrote:
Hello,

I would like to find more information on my great, great grandparents.

Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP

Born: about 1820 in Kingdom of Hannover (probably in Schledenhausen,
Osnabruck district)

Parents: listed on Death Certificate as "Frederik and Maria Rahnkamp" - both
born in "Germany"

Immigrated to USA from Bremen via the ship George F. Patten, arriving in New
York on 3 October 1851.

He applied for U.S Citizenship on 18 November 1859 and was Naturalized on 14
April 1862.

Died: 18 September 1886 in Newark, New Jersey, USA
Buried in Woodland Cemetery, Newark, NJ, where he purchased a family lot on
19 October 1867.

His wife was Maria Elizabeth EBERHARDT, born about 1820 in Hannover, Germany. (Her parents were "Henry and Mary EBERHARDT", both born in Germany.) Maria died in Newark, New Jersey, USA, on 28 November 1887 and is
buried with her husband in Woodland Cemetery in Newark.

Their daughter, Anna Catherine Gertrud (RAHENKAMP) Wegener, was born 15 August 1849 in Hannover, Germany. Anna immigrated with her parents in 1851 when she was 2 years old. A record found in the Schledehausen (Lutheran) Church states Catharine Gertrud RAHENKAMP was Christened on 26 August 1849.

I believe Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP must have had siblings, and I also believe Adam and his wife, Maria, had other children before Anna Catharine Gertrud. However, I have been unable to confirm any siblings or other
children.

I apologize for such a long posting, but I wanted to be sure to include all
the information currently known to me.

Any help in finding additional information on this family would be greatly
appreciated.

Regards,
Carol Payne in Oklahoma, USA
SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] RAHENKAMP family

Date: 2006/02/09 01:39:46
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Carol,
      Gale pointed out that these people emigrated and are listed in the
Osnabrück archives:

    Rahenkamp, Christoph Heinrich    26089
    Rahenkamp, Clare Marie    26089
    Rahenkamp, Johann Friedrich    26089
    Rahenkamp, Marie Eleonore    26089
    Rahenkamp, Marie Gertrud    26089

       These people are from Essen (Bad Essen) which is in the same general
region as you ancestors. They may be a part of that same family.

      Also, do a search on this page and you will see more Rahenkamps:

     http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp

      You might also check the German phonebook for the Rahenkamp names.
Most also come from that general Osnabrück area:

     http://www.telefonbuch.de/

      Maybe you are familiar with this website.  There are 133 Rahenkamps
listed there from the U.S. as well as Germany, some in the Osnabrück area:
     http://www.gencircles.com/users/debramagee/1

I hope some of this will be helpful to you.

Barbara
     



on 2/8/06 4:00 PM, Carol Payne at snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I would like to find more information on my great, great grandparents.
> 
> Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP
> 
> Born:  about 1820 in Kingdom of Hannover (probably in Schledenhausen,
> Osnabruck district)
> 
> Parents: listed on Death Certificate as "Frederik and Maria Rahnkamp" - both
> born in "Germany"
> 
> Immigrated to USA from Bremen via the ship George F. Patten, arriving in New
> York on 3 October 1851.
> 
> He applied for U.S Citizenship on 18 November 1859 and was Naturalized on 14
> April 1862.
> 
> Died: 18 September 1886 in Newark, New Jersey, USA
> Buried in Woodland Cemetery, Newark, NJ, where he purchased a family lot on
> 19 October 1867.
> 
> His wife was Maria Elizabeth EBERHARDT, born about 1820 in Hannover,
> Germany.  (Her parents were "Henry and Mary EBERHARDT", both born in
> Germany.)  Maria died in Newark, New Jersey, USA, on 28 November 1887 and is
> buried with her husband in Woodland Cemetery in Newark.
> 
> Their daughter, Anna Catherine Gertrud (RAHENKAMP) Wegener, was born 15
> August 1849 in Hannover, Germany.  Anna immigrated with her parents in 1851
> when she was 2 years old.  A record found in the Schledehausen (Lutheran)
> Church states Catharine Gertrud RAHENKAMP was Christened on 26 August 1849.
> 
> I believe Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP must have had  siblings, and I also
> believe Adam and his wife, Maria, had other children before Anna Catharine
> Gertrud.  However, I have been unable to confirm any siblings or other
> children.
> 
> I apologize for such a long posting, but I wanted to be sure to include all
> the information currently known to me.
> 
> Any help in finding additional information on this family would be greatly
> appreciated.
> 
> Regards,
> Carol Payne in Oklahoma, USA
> SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] RAHENKAMP family

Date: 2006/02/09 03:50:30
From: Carol Payne <snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net>

Thank you Gale and Barbara!

What do the numbers mean after the names of the people found in the
Osnabrück archives?

Barbara - you said I would see more Rahenkamps at
http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp - my searches turned up
nothing - what am I doing wrong?

I have the names from the phonebook and am in the process of writing letters
to them - even have a friend who will translate for me.  Of course, who
knows how long it will be before they write back, IF they do.

Guess there was one other thing I should have mentioned - there are at least
3 separate branches of Rahenkamps in the US.  We're all having the same
problem - we can't get enough information from "across the pond" to connect
our families.  I found Debra's files on Rootsweb, and she put me in touch
with Robert Rahenkamp.  Robert was the one who found Catharine Gertrud's
christening info when he was looking through church records during his 1976
visit.  I figure there has to be more in the church records, but I don't
know how to go about it.

Regards,
Carol Payne in Oklahoma, USA
SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] RAHENKAMP family


Hello Carol,
      Gale pointed out that these people emigrated and are listed in the
Osnabrück archives:

    Rahenkamp, Christoph Heinrich    26089
    Rahenkamp, Clare Marie    26089
    Rahenkamp, Johann Friedrich    26089
    Rahenkamp, Marie Eleonore    26089
    Rahenkamp, Marie Gertrud    26089

       These people are from Essen (Bad Essen) which is in the same general
region as you ancestors. They may be a part of that same family.

      Also, do a search on this page and you will see more Rahenkamps:

     http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp

      You might also check the German phonebook for the Rahenkamp names.
Most also come from that general Osnabrück area:

     http://www.telefonbuch.de/

      Maybe you are familiar with this website.  There are 133 Rahenkamps
listed there from the U.S. as well as Germany, some in the Osnabrück area:
     http://www.gencircles.com/users/debramagee/1

I hope some of this will be helpful to you.

Barbara




on 2/8/06 4:00 PM, Carol Payne at snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I would like to find more information on my great, great grandparents.
>
> Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP
>
> Born:  about 1820 in Kingdom of Hannover (probably in Schledenhausen,
> Osnabruck district)
>
> Parents: listed on Death Certificate as "Frederik and Maria Rahnkamp" -
both
> born in "Germany"
>
> Immigrated to USA from Bremen via the ship George F. Patten, arriving in
New
> York on 3 October 1851.
>
> He applied for U.S Citizenship on 18 November 1859 and was Naturalized on
14
> April 1862.
>
> Died: 18 September 1886 in Newark, New Jersey, USA
> Buried in Woodland Cemetery, Newark, NJ, where he purchased a family lot
on
> 19 October 1867.
>
> His wife was Maria Elizabeth EBERHARDT, born about 1820 in Hannover,
> Germany.  (Her parents were "Henry and Mary EBERHARDT", both born in
> Germany.)  Maria died in Newark, New Jersey, USA, on 28 November 1887 and
is
> buried with her husband in Woodland Cemetery in Newark.
>
> Their daughter, Anna Catherine Gertrud (RAHENKAMP) Wegener, was born 15
> August 1849 in Hannover, Germany.  Anna immigrated with her parents in
1851
> when she was 2 years old.  A record found in the Schledehausen (Lutheran)
> Church states Catharine Gertrud RAHENKAMP was Christened on 26 August
1849.
>
> I believe Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP must have had  siblings, and I also
> believe Adam and his wife, Maria, had other children before Anna Catharine
> Gertrud.  However, I have been unable to confirm any siblings or other
> children.
>
> I apologize for such a long posting, but I wanted to be sure to include
all
> the information currently known to me.
>
> Any help in finding additional information on this family would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Carol Payne in Oklahoma, USA
> SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net
>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



Re: [HN] RAHENKAMP family

Date: 2006/02/09 05:00:45
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi Carol,

      Those letters after the Rahenkamp names in the emigration archives
points to the place of origin in code.  I looked it up and it is Essen (or
Bad Essen) in the greater Osnabrück area.  If you want to order those
records, I can send the information to that website.  I thought it may be to
your interest, if you recognize the names.  You wouldn't want to order the
records if they are not in your family.

On the genealogy.net metasuche by searching for Rahenkamp, I get this:

Rahenkamp    Adam    * 1872 + 1967     GedBas
Rahenkamp    Living    * 1900 + 1985     GedBas
Rahenkamp    Anna Elsabein    * +     GedBas
Rahenkamp    Living    * 1900 +     GedBas
Rahenkamp    Arthur Paul    * 1900 USA, Pennsylvania, Allegheny county,
Pittsburgh + 1936 USA, Pennsylvania, Allegheny county, Pittsburgh     GedBas

Then, you click on each one for more information.  I don't know why it
wouldn't work for you. Just put the name Rahenkamp and leave the "place"
blank.  By clicking on the GedBas, you get data that is known for each
person.  There is usually an email address of the person who placed the
information there.  I thought that Adam may be your ancestor, but maybe not.

   Also, the LDS have various church records for Essen. Be sure you get the
right Essen. They are incomplete, but you never know what you may find.
Essen is where the people listed in the emigration archives are from.

   Also, the town you mentioned is spelled wrong in one place, I believe.
Later you have it right. It should be Schledehausen (no "n").  I have a very
detailed road atlas to Germany.  There are two towns with the name of
Schledehausen.  One is near Bakum (which happens to be in Oldenburg and not
Hannover) and the church records are at Bakum. The LDS has Catholic records
from there.  The other is east of Osnabrück and probably the one your people
came from?  The LDS also has some church records, but they are also
incomplete.  

   About Eberhardt-- did Adam and Marie Elisabeth Eberhardt marry in
Germany? If not, there is a Maria Elisabeth in the Hannover archives listed
from Gieboldehausen which is not near Osnabrück. The LDS have Catholic
church records for that town.  It is northeast of Göttingen and northwest of
Duderstadt.
  
   Amen.
Barbara 

on 2/8/06 7:42 PM, Carol Payne at snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net wrote:

> Thank you Gale and Barbara!
> 
> What do the numbers mean after the names of the people found in the
> Osnabrück archives?
> 
> Barbara - you said I would see more Rahenkamps at
> http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp - my searches turned up
> nothing - what am I doing wrong?
> 
> I have the names from the phonebook and am in the process of writing letters
> to them - even have a friend who will translate for me.  Of course, who
> knows how long it will be before they write back, IF they do.
> 
> Guess there was one other thing I should have mentioned - there are at least
> 3 separate branches of Rahenkamps in the US.  We're all having the same
> problem - we can't get enough information from "across the pond" to connect
> our families.  I found Debra's files on Rootsweb, and she put me in touch
> with Robert Rahenkamp.  Robert was the one who found Catharine Gertrud's
> christening info when he was looking through church records during his 1976
> visit.  I figure there has to be more in the church records, but I don't
> know how to go about it.
> 
> Regards,
> Carol Payne in Oklahoma, USA
> SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [HN] RAHENKAMP family
> 
> 
> Hello Carol,
> Gale pointed out that these people emigrated and are listed in the
> Osnabrück archives:
> 
> Rahenkamp, Christoph Heinrich    26089
> Rahenkamp, Clare Marie    26089
> Rahenkamp, Johann Friedrich    26089
> Rahenkamp, Marie Eleonore    26089
> Rahenkamp, Marie Gertrud    26089
> 
> These people are from Essen (Bad Essen) which is in the same general
> region as you ancestors. They may be a part of that same family.
> 
> Also, do a search on this page and you will see more Rahenkamps:
> 
> http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp
> 
> You might also check the German phonebook for the Rahenkamp names.
> Most also come from that general Osnabrück area:
> 
> http://www.telefonbuch.de/
> 
> Maybe you are familiar with this website.  There are 133 Rahenkamps
> listed there from the U.S. as well as Germany, some in the Osnabrück area:
> http://www.gencircles.com/users/debramagee/1
> 
> I hope some of this will be helpful to you.
> 
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on 2/8/06 4:00 PM, Carol Payne at snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I would like to find more information on my great, great grandparents.
>> 
>> Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP
>> 
>> Born:  about 1820 in Kingdom of Hannover (probably in Schledenhausen,
>> Osnabruck district)
>> 
>> Parents: listed on Death Certificate as "Frederik and Maria Rahnkamp" -
> both
>> born in "Germany"
>> 
>> Immigrated to USA from Bremen via the ship George F. Patten, arriving in
> New
>> York on 3 October 1851.
>> 
>> He applied for U.S Citizenship on 18 November 1859 and was Naturalized on
> 14
>> April 1862.
>> 
>> Died: 18 September 1886 in Newark, New Jersey, USA
>> Buried in Woodland Cemetery, Newark, NJ, where he purchased a family lot
> on
>> 19 October 1867.
>> 
>> His wife was Maria Elizabeth EBERHARDT, born about 1820 in Hannover,
>> Germany.  (Her parents were "Henry and Mary EBERHARDT", both born in
>> Germany.)  Maria died in Newark, New Jersey, USA, on 28 November 1887 and
> is
>> buried with her husband in Woodland Cemetery in Newark.
>> 
>> Their daughter, Anna Catherine Gertrud (RAHENKAMP) Wegener, was born 15
>> August 1849 in Hannover, Germany.  Anna immigrated with her parents in
> 1851
>> when she was 2 years old.  A record found in the Schledehausen (Lutheran)
>> Church states Catharine Gertrud RAHENKAMP was Christened on 26 August
> 1849.
>> 
>> I believe Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP must have had  siblings, and I also
>> believe Adam and his wife, Maria, had other children before Anna Catharine
>> Gertrud.  However, I have been unable to confirm any siblings or other
>> children.
>> 
>> I apologize for such a long posting, but I wanted to be sure to include
> all
>> the information currently known to me.
>> 
>> Any help in finding additional information on this family would be greatly
>> appreciated.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Carol Payne in Oklahoma, USA
>> SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net
>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Re: Hannover Emigration list

Date: 2006/02/09 05:25:44
From: Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>

Hi Dave:  I enquired last spring and they quoted me Euros 19 per quarter hour research - not by document. This may be more now, who knows?  And the check or mo must be in Euros.  I said, no, thank you...     Jane


Jane Swan
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

Re: [HN] Ongoing Serach For Speckman

Date: 2006/02/09 06:30:46
From: Bmspeckman <Bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi Dave B,
Thanks for the lead on Hamburg,
Barney Speckman

[HN] Frederick A. Hattorf in New York

Date: 2006/02/09 06:30:54
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Good morning members of the Hannover list in the USA
 
My name is Armin Hattorf and i am looking for some secrets (i like secrets)  
of Frederick A. Hattorf (Hattorff) living about 1850 in New York. He is in the 
 1860 Brooklyn City directory (Hearnes).
 
I found a hint, that he might have been married in Memsen/Hoya (Kingdom  
Hannover) 
 
And this is what i found at ancestry.com :
 
    Hattorf H   Friedrich August  Memsen,  Hoya, Hanover    married  12 Jan 
1844, witness 
 
Ok the question is what does it mean? Was he witness for a marriage? I have  
been looking for the marriage datas in Memsen Hoya today Hoyershagen, there 
was  no marriage of a Friedrich August in 1844. 
 
And the very strange thing is his first born son should be Frederick J.  born 
around 1843 in New York, so he was surely not in Germany in that  time.
 
He is in the 1850 census of course misspelled as Fred. A. Haltorf (35  
years), segar dealer, what is the old word for cigar dealer, born in ENGLAND,  what 
is absolutely correct, with his wife Julia, (31 years) from Germany, Julia  T, 
(7 years, born in NY), George E., (5 years, born in NY), and Julia S (3  
years, born NY).
 
In the 1860 census i cant find the WHOLE FAMILY!!! Frederick A. is now a  
boarder in Richmond Virginia, this time named F. H. Hattorf born in the Kingdom  
Hannover:-)))) without family!!!! He marries again 1861 in Richmond,  Virginia.
 
Thats all but i have nothing about his old family in NY. One thing is sure  
there was a Frederick and a George Edward Hattorf in the 13th regiment of  
Artillery in 1862 fighting for the Union, and i am absolutely sure that this  
persons are the sons of Frederick A. (who was in the southern army) it looks  like 
a little family tragedy.
 
So now i am looking for hours and hours to find a hint in New York about  
Julia and the boys in 1860 where are they. And i cant find George Edward too not  
in 1860, 1870, 1880, but suddenly in 1900 Census a certain George Hattorf.
 
So is there still a possibility to find out more about Frederick A and  his 
time in NY??? How many children did they realy have? Are there churchbooks  
like we have here in Germany? 
 
Thank you very much
 
Armin (Hattorf)

[HN] OWENS Robert

Date: 2006/02/09 06:41:02
From: FalkLiebe <FalkLiebe(a)t-online.de>

Dear Mr. Owens, 
 
You asked for a look-up in the family name directories or rather
etymologies, 
I sent an answer and there was a failure notice:
please respond offline
 
Falk Liebezeit
Diepholz

Re: [HN] Frederick A. Hattorf in New York

Date: 2006/02/09 19:38:00
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Armin:

I note that you are starting with the older person and
going down the list to the younger decendants, instead of
starting with your father and moving back in time.

So my question (please don't be insulted) is:  Are you
chasing a name or a person?

What do you have that ties together all the people you
have listed, or do you just have a stack of similar names?
Of course the 1850 census ties together the people in
that family and possibly later to some individuals.

If you have an established nexus then you are right to chace the names you have mentioned.

Gale



On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 00:30:09 EST
 AJHattorf(a)aol.com wrote:
Good morning members of the Hannover list in the USA

My name is Armin Hattorf and i am looking for some secrets (i like secrets) of Frederick A. Hattorf (Hattorff) living about 1850 in New York. He is in the 1860 Brooklyn City directory (Hearnes).

I found a hint, that he might have been married in Memsen/Hoya (Kingdom Hannover)
And this is what i found at ancestry.com :

Hattorf H Friedrich August Memsen, Hoya, Hanover married 12 Jan 1844, witness Ok the question is what does it mean? Was he witness for a marriage? I have been looking for the marriage datas in Memsen Hoya today Hoyershagen, there was no marriage of a Friedrich August in 1844. And the very strange thing is his first born son should be Frederick J. born around 1843 in New York, so he was surely not in Germany in that time.

He is in the 1850 census of course misspelled as Fred. A. Haltorf (35 years), segar dealer, what is the old word for cigar dealer, born in ENGLAND, what is absolutely correct, with his wife Julia, (31 years) from Germany, Julia T, (7 years, born in NY), George E., (5 years, born in NY), and Julia S (3 years, born NY).

In the 1860 census i cant find the WHOLE FAMILY!!! Frederick A. is now a boarder in Richmond Virginia, this time named F. H. Hattorf born in the Kingdom Hannover:-)))) without family!!!! He marries again 1861 in Richmond, Virginia.

Thats all but i have nothing about his old family in NY. One thing is sure there was a Frederick and a George Edward Hattorf in the 13th regiment of Artillery in 1862 fighting for the Union, and i am absolutely sure that this persons are the sons of Frederick A. (who was in the southern army) it looks like a little family tragedy.

So now i am looking for hours and hours to find a hint in New York about Julia and the boys in 1860 where are they. And i cant find George Edward too not in 1860, 1870, 1880, but suddenly in 1900 Census a certain George Hattorf.

So is there still a possibility to find out more about Frederick A and his time in NY??? How many children did they realy have? Are there churchbooks like we have here in Germany?
Thank you very much

Armin (Hattorf)
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] RAHENKAMP family

Date: 2006/02/09 21:21:45
From: Carol Payne <snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net>

Barbara wrote>>

> Those letters after the Rahenkamp names in the >emigration archives points
to the place of origin in  >code.  I looked it up and it is Essen (or Bad
Essen) in >the greater Osnabrück area.  If you want to order those
>records, I can send the information to that website.  I >thought it may be
to your interest, if you recognize the >names.  You wouldn't want to order
the records if they >are not in your family.

To the best of my current knowlege, these people are not in my branch of the
Rahenkamp family.  However I will check with the other Rahenkamp researchers
to see if they would want any of these records.

> On the genealogy.net metasuche by searching for >Rahenkamp, I get this:
>
>Rahenkamp    Adam    * 1872 + 1967     GedBas
>Rahenkamp    Living    * 1900 + 1985     GedBas
>Rahenkamp    Anna Elsabein    * +     GedBas
>Rahenkamp    Living    * 1900 +     GedBas
>Rahenkamp    Arthur Paul    * 1900 USA, Pennsylvania, > Allegheny county,
Pittsburgh + 1936 USA, >Pennsylvania, Allegheny county, Pittsburgh
GedBas

>Then, you click on each one for more information.  I >don't know why it
wouldn't work for you. Just put the >name Rahenkamp and leave the "place"
blank.

I don't know why it didn't work for me last night, but I tried again today,
and it worked just fine.  Unfortunately, they do not appear to be part of my
branch either.  (While I was there, I checked on my WEGENERs - the results
about blew my mind! - but I'll have to get back to them another day...)

>   Also, the town you mentioned is spelled wrong in one >place, I believe.
Later you have it right. It should be >Schledehausen (no "n").  I have a
very detailed road >atlas to Germany.  There are two towns with the name >of
Schledehausen.  One is near Bakum (which happens >to be in Oldenburg and not
Hannover) and the church >records are at Bakum. The LDS has Catholic records
>from there.  The other is east of Osnabrück and >probably the one your
people came from?

Yes, I believe so.  According to earlier researchers, and Robert Rahenkamp,
the original RAHENKAMP farm was/is in the community of Grambergen.  In 1939
it belonged to the Wolfman family, and in 1976 it was occupied by the
Hoffman family.  Robert Rahenkamp says the Schledehausen (Lutheran) parish
records give reference to Jeggen, Schenburg, Linne and Grambergen where the
Rahenkamp families lived.

>The LDS also has some church records, but they are >also incomplete.

So I discovered!  I was thinking that if Robert Rahenkamp happened to find
the christening record for my Anna Catharine Gertrud Rahenkamp among the
Schledehausen parish records, there should be more!  I just can't believe
Adam & Marie Rahenkamp didn't have any children before Anna in 1849.

>   About Eberhardt-- did Adam and Marie Elisabeth >Eberhardt marry in
Germany?

Yes, and that's another parish record I was hoping to find.  Assuming they
married around the age of 20, they would have been married about 1840.  Do
you have any idea where the Schledehausen parish records might be kept
today?  Maybe there's a local researcher I could hire?

I really, really appreciate all the help and ideas you and Gale have
provided - Thank You!

Regards,
Carol Payne  SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net




[HN] Fw: [RUHR] Zufallsfund Kügler und He nicken

Date: 2006/02/09 22:02:43
From: Christina und Horst Rauschenberg <ChrAnHo(a)t-online.de>


----- Original Message ----- From: "Martina Picker" <martina(a)picker-du.de> To: "Kleverland" <kleverland(a)genealogy.net>; "Ruhrgebiet-L" <ruhrgebiet-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 9:42 PM
Subject: [RUHR] Zufallsfund Kügler und Henicken


Hallo Listenleser,

im FB Briedel (Landkreis Cochem-Zell) befindet sich folgende Taufe:

Kügler, Burkhard Friedrich aus Hannover
oo Henicken, Maria Catharina aus Wesel
Tochter
Maria Katharina * 25.02.1705 Briedel (Nr. 916)

Ich hoffe, es hilft jemandem.

Kann jemand diese Mail in die Hannover-Liste weiterleiten ? Danke :-)

Viele Grüße
Martina (Picker)
_______________________________________________
Ruhrgebiet-L mailing list
Ruhrgebiet-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/ruhrgebiet-l


Re: [HN] RAHENKAMP family

Date: 2006/02/09 23:03:57
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi Carol,

      This page refers to Schledehausen and the records for the church
there:

http://www.hist.de/ygeorgsmarienhuette.htm

There are people at that address who do research. Look here:

http://www.hist.de/

   I've tried unsuccessfully to find the address of the St. Laurentius
Church in Scheldehausen. You could contact the church directly and maybe
they would look up something for you.

   I find it interesting that earlier records (than 1803) were in the
Catholic church. I wonder if that is still the case.

    The four towns you mention are all around Schleldehausen - my map shows
two churches in Schledehausen, but none in those other towns.  One could
presume that they went to church in Schledehausen and the records would
include them as well.

    You might take a look at the LDS film for Schledehausen.  There are two
films actually with a lot of different records.  I have found a film like
that to be helpful.  On the other hand, it may be useless. It only covers
1822-1863. It has church and civil records.

Well, I wish you clear sailing!
Barbara
   





on 2/9/06 1:15 PM, Carol Payne at snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net wrote:

> 
> Barbara wrote>>
> 
>> Those letters after the Rahenkamp names in the >emigration archives points
> to the place of origin in  >code.  I looked it up and it is Essen (or Bad
> Essen) in >the greater Osnabrück area.  If you want to order those
>> records, I can send the information to that website.  I >thought it may be
> to your interest, if you recognize the >names.  You wouldn't want to order
> the records if they >are not in your family.
> 
> To the best of my current knowlege, these people are not in my branch of the
> Rahenkamp family.  However I will check with the other Rahenkamp researchers
> to see if they would want any of these records.
> 
>> On the genealogy.net metasuche by searching for >Rahenkamp, I get this:
>> 
>> Rahenkamp    Adam    * 1872 + 1967     GedBas
>> Rahenkamp    Living    * 1900 + 1985     GedBas
>> Rahenkamp    Anna Elsabein    * +     GedBas
>> Rahenkamp    Living    * 1900 +     GedBas
>> Rahenkamp    Arthur Paul    * 1900 USA, Pennsylvania, > Allegheny county,
> Pittsburgh + 1936 USA, >Pennsylvania, Allegheny county, Pittsburgh
> GedBas
> 
>> Then, you click on each one for more information.  I >don't know why it
> wouldn't work for you. Just put the >name Rahenkamp and leave the "place"
> blank.
> 
> I don't know why it didn't work for me last night, but I tried again today,
> and it worked just fine.  Unfortunately, they do not appear to be part of my
> branch either.  (While I was there, I checked on my WEGENERs - the results
> about blew my mind! - but I'll have to get back to them another day...)
> 
>> Also, the town you mentioned is spelled wrong in one >place, I believe.
> Later you have it right. It should be >Schledehausen (no "n").  I have a
> very detailed road >atlas to Germany.  There are two towns with the name >of
> Schledehausen.  One is near Bakum (which happens >to be in Oldenburg and not
> Hannover) and the church >records are at Bakum. The LDS has Catholic records
>> from there.  The other is east of Osnabrück and >probably the one your
> people came from?
> 
> Yes, I believe so.  According to earlier researchers, and Robert Rahenkamp,
> the original RAHENKAMP farm was/is in the community of Grambergen.  In 1939
> it belonged to the Wolfman family, and in 1976 it was occupied by the
> Hoffman family.  Robert Rahenkamp says the Schledehausen (Lutheran) parish
> records give reference to Jeggen, Schenburg, Linne and Grambergen where the
> Rahenkamp families lived.
> 
>> The LDS also has some church records, but they are >also incomplete.
> 
> So I discovered!  I was thinking that if Robert Rahenkamp happened to find
> the christening record for my Anna Catharine Gertrud Rahenkamp among the
> Schledehausen parish records, there should be more!  I just can't believe
> Adam & Marie Rahenkamp didn't have any children before Anna in 1849.
> 
>> About Eberhardt-- did Adam and Marie Elisabeth >Eberhardt marry in
> Germany?
> 
> Yes, and that's another parish record I was hoping to find.  Assuming they
> married around the age of 20, they would have been married about 1840.  Do
> you have any idea where the Schledehausen parish records might be kept
> today?  Maybe there's a local researcher I could hire?
> 
> I really, really appreciate all the help and ideas you and Gale have
> provided - Thank You!
> 
> Regards,
> Carol Payne  SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


RE: [HN] Frederick A. Hattorf in New York

Date: 2006/02/10 01:08:05
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

It sounds to me like Armin is doing what so many on the other side of the pond are doing :: trying to locate a family connection or branch. Only in reverse fashion from what we are often used to seeing (with the majority seeking connections TO Germany). It appears he has been quite diligent so far in determining an outline of this branch, but is hoping to fill in a few of the particulars ('secrets' as he puts it, to which we all have a weakness in this pastime). Not to worry Armin, you're in like-minded company! ;)

Being a working stiff, I don't have too much extra time to pursue individual specifics for listers, all the more so outside of the California area. For that reason, I simply try to offer the best advice I can in where (or how) one can pursue certain leads. Fortunately others on the list have a bit more elbow room, as well as the requisite online tools to proffer some very helpful "specifics".

As I read it, it appears our friend Armin is first seeking clarification on what a Ancestry.com (German) marriage descriptor might be indicating precisely. Those with a subscription to AC may be able to help clarify this reference a bit better.

Secondly (and Armin take note), dates as they are listed in the censuses may not be "dead-on" as we say, in fact quite often they are far from it. Always allow a certain "fudge-factor" (leeway) of at least a few years up or down from what you observe listed. One quickly comes to see that many of the particulars in the census returns amount to "approximations", and are not always highly accurate. These inaccuracies are true for many other records too, not just the census ones, since much of this data is being rendered by family members, and is therefore based on the limitations of their knowledge or recollections at the time. So Frederick J. may or may not have been born circa 1843 in New York, at least until additional supporting evidence can be uncovered (unless you have more).

In the 1860 census i cant find the WHOLE FAMILY!!! Frederick A. is now a boarder in Richmond Virginia, this time named F. H. Hattorf born in the Kingdom Hannover:-)))) without family!!!! He marries again 1861 in Richmond, Virginia.

Regarding Frederick A.'s solo appearance in 1860, he may have been divorced or separated from his first wife at this point, or his family (or certain members of it, particularly with his wife) could have been the victim(s) of an accident or illness or death (assuming your 1860 Richmond, Virginia information is sound). If that were the case, the children may have been placed in foster care along the way, or may have been reared under the roof of a different papa, amongst other possibilities.

Thats all but i have nothing about his old family in NY. One thing is sure there was a Frederick and a George Edward Hattorf in the 13th regiment of Artillery in 1862 fighting for the Union, and i am absolutely sure that this persons are the sons of Frederick A. (who was in the southern army) it looks like a little family tragedy.

Your linking of his (possible) sons to the Civil War may point to a family "tragedy" as you put it (hinting of differing familial views regarding that conflict), or it could just be that Frederick Sr. moved to Virginia (for whatever reason) and his sons, being raised in NY, had natural allegiances to the state and "side" they called home. Hard to say if a "tragedy" is involved here or not, no? I'd also keep an open mind as to the certainty that these are his sons in the Union ranks. They may well have been, only this is a huge country with many similar or identical names occurring here, there and everywhere - then and now! Moreover, if his son Frederick was not born until 1850 or beyond (per the 1850 census), that would place him at age 15 (at best) during the last year of the war in 1865. Not a highly likely scenario for seeing action during the conflict (though theoretically possible I suppose). Or was Frederick Jr., "his first born son", indeed listed in that 1850 census? [??]

So is there still a possibility to find out more about Frederick A and his time in NY??? How many children did they realy have? Are there churchbooks like we have here in Germany?

There would definitely be a various records to be found in NY dating back to that time period, but every state in the USA is different in what kinds of records they kept (and keep). There is no easy answer here, all the more so if the family were residents of NY CITY versus NY state. A city as big as NYC plays by its own set of rules so to speak, as opposed to the outlying counties and cities that surround it. You could almost call it "specialized" research, perhaps more than any other city in America, being that it is the largest city - then and now - in the country. You will probably have to determine the borough or precinct the family resided in, as opposed to just the city "proper" (main), which would likely be too broad. There are actual research guides and books written just on the subject of doing family research in NYC. These could be looked into, or perhaps a local area genealogist in the NYC area could be consulted or enlisted. Hopefully someone on the list has done family research in that city, and will have more to offer.

Also NY city AND state may have had a few of their own individual censuses enumerated over the years, as opposed to the FEDERAL ones we all generally reference. That alone could offer additional possibilities. Try NY STATE / CITY CENSUSES in a good search engine. Certificates of death could also be sought, once enough supporting documentation is found. Likewise Civil War records on the sons from NARA (National Archives). It goes on and on from there. Depends on how much time and/or money you want to spend in the end I suppose (as in everything else).

Now don't keep us in suspense Armin. Many will be curious as to your connection here. Is it a case of the Deutschlander seeking the Amerikaners, much to our naive surprise? You mean... it can work both ways? <lol>

Now if that's the case, we are unfortunately coming up a bit short regarding Jan Timphaus's request [February 1] for more info or possible leads on the GERHARD WINGERBERG family who came to the USA in 1875 from Westerholte (though Barb may have found a newspaper obit), with daughters Elisabeth and Wilhelmine. Also Baerbel's request [January 29] for perspective leads on HEINRICH BEHRENS from Luttum, who may have emigrated to America and had two daughters, Gisela Charlotte Behrens and Ingrid Erika Behrens. Maybe someone with the right tools could give these a shot also (Barbara is working overtime as it is, with Gale pulling up the rear).

For a start, both of our German side requesters could subscribe to Ancestry.com for a free 2 week trial if possessing a sufficient command of English, and peruse the gamut of records found there. Sounds like Armin may already have. ;)

Best of luck. Jb


From: <gale(a)bosche.info>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Frederick A. Hattorf in New York
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 13:37:38 -0500

Hi Armin:

I note that you are starting with the older person and
going down the list to the younger decendants, instead of
starting with your father and moving back in time.

So my question (please don't be insulted) is: Are you
chasing a name or a person?

What do you have that ties together all the people you
have listed, or do you just have a stack of similar names?
Of course the 1850 census ties together the people in
that family and possibly later to some individuals.

If you have an established nexus then you are right to chace the names you have mentioned.

Gale


From: AJHattorf(a)aol.com
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Frederick A. Hattorf in New York
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 00:30:09 EST

Good morning members of the Hannover list in the USA

My name is Armin Hattorf and i am looking for some secrets (i like secrets)
of Frederick A. Hattorf (Hattorff) living about 1850 in New York. He is in the
1860 Brooklyn City directory (Hearnes).

I found a hint, that he might have been married in Memsen/Hoya (Kingdom
Hannover)

And this is what i found at ancestry.com :

Hattorf H Friedrich August Memsen, Hoya, Hanover married 12 Jan
1844, witness

Ok the question is what does it mean? Was he witness for a marriage? I have
been looking for the marriage datas in Memsen Hoya today Hoyershagen, there
was no marriage of a Friedrich August in 1844.

And the very strange thing is his first born son should be Frederick J. born
around 1843 in New York, so he was surely not in Germany in that time.

He is in the 1850 census of course misspelled as Fred. A. Haltorf (35
years), segar dealer, what is the old word for cigar dealer, born in ENGLAND, what is absolutely correct, with his wife Julia, (31 years) from Germany, Julia T,
(7 years, born in NY), George E., (5 years, born in NY), and Julia S (3
years, born NY).

In the 1860 census i cant find the WHOLE FAMILY!!! Frederick A. is now a
boarder in Richmond Virginia, this time named F. H. Hattorf born in the Kingdom Hannover:-)))) without family!!!! He marries again 1861 in Richmond, Virginia.

Thats all but i have nothing about his old family in NY. One thing is sure
there was a Frederick and a George Edward Hattorf in the 13th regiment of
Artillery in 1862 fighting for the Union, and i am absolutely sure that this persons are the sons of Frederick A. (who was in the southern army) it looks like
a little family tragedy.

So now i am looking for hours and hours to find a hint in New York about
Julia and the boys in 1860 where are they. And i cant find George Edward too not
in 1860, 1870, 1880, but suddenly in 1900 Census a certain George Hattorf.

So is there still a possibility to find out more about Frederick A and his
time in NY??? How many children did they realy have? Are there churchbooks
like we have here in Germany?

Thank you very much

Armin (Hattorf)

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


RE: [HN] Frederick A. Hattorf in New York

Date: 2006/02/10 04:08:38
From: svcygnus <svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com>

In regards to JB's conjecture about New York State Censuses [Censi], I know for
a fact that the State of New York conducted its own censuses in 1855 and 1865
[and, I believe, in 1875].   Unfortunately, I don't know of any on-line source
for these censuses. They are availale at the New York State Library in Albany
New York, and the appropriate portions are available at various County Record
Offices throughout the state of New York.
Don Roddy


----- Message from johnbrene(a)hotmail.com ---------
    Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 16:07:57 -0800
    From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
 Subject: RE: [HN] Frederick A. Hattorf in New York
      To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net



....Also NY city AND state may have had a few of their own individual censuses
enumerated over the years, as opposed to the FEDERAL ones we all generally
reference. That alone could offer additional possibilities. Try NY STATE /
CITY CENSUSES in a good search engine.....

[HN] RE: Hattorf in NYC

Date: 2006/02/10 04:27:21
From: Art Dohrman <art.dohrman(a)comcast.net>

I can answer a few of the questions regarding NYC contained in JB's reply to
Armin, since my family was living in NYC at that time.
First of all, New York State did conduct state censuses, every 10 years on
the 5th year of the decade (1855, 1865, etc.)  I do not believe those are
available on line, unless Ancestry has them.  They're probably available on
microfilm from LDS.
Second of all, it helps to know something of the political history of New
York City.  Until 1898, New York City consisted solely of the island of
Manhattan (and part of the Bronx).  "Greater New York" as we know it today
with the five boroughs came into being January 1, 1898. So in the mid-1800's
Brooklyn was a separate city in Kings County.  In fact, it was a commuter
suburb and several economic and social steps above the immigrant
neighborhoods on the Lower east Side of Manhattan.  
Regarding church books, if you know what neighborhood the family lived in
(from the city directory) you may be able to deduce several candidate
churches they may have attended.  The problem is that New York's
neighborhoods are in a constant state of flux ethnically (and have been for
at least the last 150 years), so the odds of an Evangelical or Lutheran (for
example) congregation being in the same place for that whole time are almost
nil.  Nevertheless, some of those records are available through LDS.
Birth and death records were not maintained by the city or state before
about 1870 to 1880 (varied somewhat among the different towns and cities
which existed prior to 1898).
A book that may be useful if you can find it is James P. Maher, "Index to
marriages and deaths in the New York Herald".  It covers the years
1835-1870.  Being the New York Herald, it probably would not cover events in
Brooklyn (recall Brooklyn was a separate city at that time). It is just what
it says, an index with no details.  However, if you find an entry you're
interested in you can write to Mr. Maher himself, at PO Box 8623, Alexandria
VA 22306, and for US$10 he will send you an extract of the database for that
person/event.
The Brooklyn Daily Eagle newspaper from 1841 to 1902 is available on line
free at http://www.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/eagle/.  I have been able to
find several useful references to my great-grandmother and my
great-great-grandmother there.

Hoffentlich haben diese Hinweise ein bißchen Wert!
Hals und beinbruch!

mfG
Art Dohrman



Re: [HN] Frederick A. Hattorf in New York

Date: 2006/02/10 10:26:48
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Hi Armin,

I have an idea why you found Frederick only on the 1860 VA. census. Because he was a cigar? dealer..perhaps he spent time in Virginnia buying tobacco.

I have located some of my Washington County ancestors on later 1900/1910 census' enumerated twice. In St. Louis City, Missouri and on the farm Washington County, Illinois.

Mine were not wealthy people....I think when not needed on the home farm stayed in the city with relatives to suppliment the family farm income through employment in the city.

Barbie-Lew


From: <gale(a)bosche.info>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Frederick A. Hattorf in New York
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 13:37:38 -0500

Hi Armin:

I note that you are starting with the older person and
going down the list to the younger decendants, instead of
starting with your father and moving back in time.

So my question (please don't be insulted) is:  Are you
chasing a name or a person?

What do you have that ties together all the people you
have listed, or do you just have a stack of similar names?
Of course the 1850 census ties together the people in
that family and possibly later to some individuals.

If you have an established nexus then you are right to chace the names you have mentioned.

Gale



On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 00:30:09 EST
 AJHattorf(a)aol.com wrote:
Good morning members of the Hannover list in the USA

My name is Armin Hattorf and i am looking for some secrets (i like secrets) of Frederick A. Hattorf (Hattorff) living about 1850 in New York. He is in the 1860 Brooklyn City directory (Hearnes).

I found a hint, that he might have been married in Memsen/Hoya (Kingdom Hannover)

And this is what i found at ancestry.com :

Hattorf H Friedrich August Memsen, Hoya, Hanover married 12 Jan 1844, witness

Ok the question is what does it mean? Was he witness for a marriage? I have been looking for the marriage datas in Memsen Hoya today Hoyershagen, there was no marriage of a Friedrich August in 1844.

And the very strange thing is his first born son should be Frederick J. born around 1843 in New York, so he was surely not in Germany in that time.

He is in the 1850 census of course misspelled as Fred. A. Haltorf (35 years), segar dealer, what is the old word for cigar dealer, born in ENGLAND, what is absolutely correct, with his wife Julia, (31 years) from Germany, Julia T, (7 years, born in NY), George E., (5 years, born in NY), and Julia S (3 years, born NY).

In the 1860 census i cant find the WHOLE FAMILY!!! Frederick A. is now a boarder in Richmond Virginia, this time named F. H. Hattorf born in the Kingdom Hannover:-)))) without family!!!! He marries again 1861 in Richmond, Virginia.

Thats all but i have nothing about his old family in NY. One thing is sure there was a Frederick and a George Edward Hattorf in the 13th regiment of Artillery in 1862 fighting for the Union, and i am absolutely sure that this persons are the sons of Frederick A. (who was in the southern army) it looks like a little family tragedy.

So now i am looking for hours and hours to find a hint in New York about Julia and the boys in 1860 where are they. And i cant find George Edward too not in 1860, 1870, 1880, but suddenly in 1900 Census a certain George Hattorf.

So is there still a possibility to find out more about Frederick A and his time in NY??? How many children did they realy have? Are there churchbooks like we have here in Germany?

Thank you very much

Armin (Hattorf)
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


Re: [HN] Frederick A. Hattorf in New York

Date: 2006/02/10 10:36:59
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Hi Armin,

I have an idea why you found Frederick only on the 1860 VA. census. Because he was a cigar? dealer..perhaps he spent time in Virginnia buying tobacco.

I have located some of my Washington County ancestors on later 1900/1910 census' enumerated twice. In St. Louis City, Missouri and on the farm Washington County, Illinois.

Mine were not wealthy people....I think when not needed on the home farm stayed in the city with relatives to suppliment the family farm income through employment in the city.

Barbie-Lew


From: <gale(a)bosche.info>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Frederick A. Hattorf in New York
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 13:37:38 -0500

Hi Armin:

I note that you are starting with the older person and
going down the list to the younger decendants, instead of
starting with your father and moving back in time.

So my question (please don't be insulted) is:  Are you
chasing a name or a person?

What do you have that ties together all the people you
have listed, or do you just have a stack of similar names?
Of course the 1850 census ties together the people in
that family and possibly later to some individuals.

If you have an established nexus then you are right to chace the names you have mentioned.

Gale



On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 00:30:09 EST
 AJHattorf(a)aol.com wrote:
Good morning members of the Hannover list in the USA

My name is Armin Hattorf and i am looking for some secrets (i like secrets) of Frederick A. Hattorf (Hattorff) living about 1850 in New York. He is in the 1860 Brooklyn City directory (Hearnes).

I found a hint, that he might have been married in Memsen/Hoya (Kingdom Hannover)

And this is what i found at ancestry.com :

Hattorf H Friedrich August Memsen, Hoya, Hanover married 12 Jan 1844, witness

Ok the question is what does it mean? Was he witness for a marriage? I have been looking for the marriage datas in Memsen Hoya today Hoyershagen, there was no marriage of a Friedrich August in 1844.

And the very strange thing is his first born son should be Frederick J. born around 1843 in New York, so he was surely not in Germany in that time.

He is in the 1850 census of course misspelled as Fred. A. Haltorf (35 years), segar dealer, what is the old word for cigar dealer, born in ENGLAND, what is absolutely correct, with his wife Julia, (31 years) from Germany, Julia T, (7 years, born in NY), George E., (5 years, born in NY), and Julia S (3 years, born NY).

In the 1860 census i cant find the WHOLE FAMILY!!! Frederick A. is now a boarder in Richmond Virginia, this time named F. H. Hattorf born in the Kingdom Hannover:-)))) without family!!!! He marries again 1861 in Richmond, Virginia.

Thats all but i have nothing about his old family in NY. One thing is sure there was a Frederick and a George Edward Hattorf in the 13th regiment of Artillery in 1862 fighting for the Union, and i am absolutely sure that this persons are the sons of Frederick A. (who was in the southern army) it looks like a little family tragedy.

So now i am looking for hours and hours to find a hint in New York about Julia and the boys in 1860 where are they. And i cant find George Edward too not in 1860, 1870, 1880, but suddenly in 1900 Census a certain George Hattorf.

So is there still a possibility to find out more about Frederick A and his time in NY??? How many children did they realy have? Are there churchbooks like we have here in Germany?

Thank you very much

Armin (Hattorf)
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/


Re: [HN] Rukop, Ruhkop, Rokopp, Ru(h)kopf, etc

Date: 2006/02/10 10:53:15
From: Lauing . Gerd <Lauing.Gerd(a)t-online.de>

"Klaus Vahlbruch" <Klaus-Vahlbruch(a)t-online.de> schrieb:
> Hallo Listies.
> 
> Ich beschäftige mich mit der Ahnenforschung Ru(h)kopf, mit wechselden 
> Schreibweisen. Diese Ruhkopf's stammen aus dem Gebiet zwischen  und in 
> Hannover und Hildesheim.
> 
Hallo Lista (fem. Form von Listies),

ich kann mit einer Ursula RUKOPF dienen, *27.05.1930, +10.12.1982, Lehrerin an der Sophienschule Hannover von 1980 bis 1982; Lehrfächer waren Biologie, Chemie, Physik; Titel: Oberstudienrätin, sie muss also schon vorher im Schuldienst gewesen sein, was ich aber im Moment nicht nachvollziehen kann, denn 1979 ist sie in keiner Schulliste vertreten. 1959 war sie jedenfalls in Lüchow als Referendarin. Sollten weitere Informationen gewünscht sein, melde dich nochmal.

Gerd (Lauing)


[HN] Re: Frederick A.

Date: 2006/02/10 13:51:43
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Hi, this is Armin again

I thank you all so much for those mails. I never thought i would get so much help.
Ok i will try my very best.

At the present time i go on searching New York, Kings, Brooklyn at ancestry.com but it will take me weeks to see all those pages, hoping every day to find something. If there is nothing i will go on with New York, New York what you call Greater New York with Manhattan etc.

And i will use that link from that newspaper this afternoon to see if i can find a little hint.

I will see if my cousin from New York can take a look at the library in NY to see if there is anything in.

Thank you all

Armin



Fw: [HN] Fw: [RUHR] Zufallsfund Kügler und Henic ken

Date: 2006/02/10 13:59:35
From: IGO-Firma <igo(a)firma-kessel.de>

Weiterleitung einer Mail aus der Ruhrgebietsliste.
Gruss Ingrid (Gottschalk)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christina und Horst Rauschenberg" <ChrAnHo(a)t-online.de>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:00 PM
Subject: [HN] Fw: [RUHR] Zufallsfund Kügler und Henicken


|
| ----- Original Message ----- 
| From: "Martina Picker" <martina(a)picker-du.de>
| To: "Kleverland" <kleverland(a)genealogy.net>; "Ruhrgebiet-L"
| <ruhrgebiet-l(a)genealogy.net>
| Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 9:42 PM
| Subject: [RUHR] Zufallsfund Kügler und Henicken
|
|
| > Hallo Listenleser,
| >
| > im FB Briedel (Landkreis Cochem-Zell) befindet sich folgende Taufe:
| >
| > Kügler, Burkhard Friedrich aus Hannover
| > oo Henicken, Maria Catharina aus Wesel
| > Tochter
| > Maria Katharina * 25.02.1705 Briedel (Nr. 916)
| >
| > Ich hoffe, es hilft jemandem.
| >
| > Kann jemand diese Mail in die Hannover-Liste weiterleiten ? Danke :-)
| >
| > Viele Grüße
| > Martina (Picker)
| > _______________________________________________
| > Ruhrgebiet-L mailing list
| > Ruhrgebiet-L(a)genealogy.net
| > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/ruhrgebiet-l
|
| ______________________________________________
|
| Hannover-L mailing list
| Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
| http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
|
| 



Re: [HN] Re: Frederick A.

Date: 2006/02/10 16:39:50
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

---- AJHattorf(a)aol.com wrote: 
> Hi, this is Armin again
> 
> I thank you all so much for those mails. I never thought i would get so much help.
> Ok i will try my very best.
> 
> At the present time i go on searching New York, Kings, Brooklyn at ancestry.com but it will take me weeks to see all those pages, hoping every day to find something. If there is nothing i will go on with New York, New York what you call Greater New York with Manhattan etc.
> 
> And i will use that link from that newspaper this afternoon to see if i can find a little hint.
> 
> I will see if my cousin from New York can take a look at the library in NY to see if there is anything in.
> 
> Thank you all
> 
> Armin
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


I have not been following the thread on FAHattorf so excuse my suggestion if it is mute. If you know the place and date of death, you might look in the obituaries. Depending on the ethinicity it may be in an ethnic publication. Otherwise determine what papers were published in that time frame and look there. I had some success doing that kind of search in the New Orleans papers for the late 1800's.
Max

Re: [HN] Speckman Again

Date: 2006/02/10 16:56:10
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

 
Hi to all on the Hannnover list,
 
I would like to report a major success in my search for my German roots and it was made possible by the tremendous help I received by the active participants on this list. So thanks to Barbara, Gail, jb, Jill, David and many others for their help.
 
I started this process several months ago as a novice and traced my German family back to 1870 in San Francisco where I found my Great Grandfather Frederick and his new bride Anna in the 1870 Census. They lived about 2 blocks from where I work in downtown San Francisco. But I could not go back any farther until I fired off a quick (naive) email to this list. I reviewed a lot of advice on how to proceed in my research on this side of the pond and in Germany. And I have been following that advice and information has been falling in place. When I started the journey my main goal was to find where my GGF lived in Germany before he came to the US - this I was told was key to tracing back any further.
 
Last week I found Frederick Speckmann on the ship the Elizabeth coming to NY in 1860. Yesterday I was able to get the ships manifest and found my GGF who was 16 and traveling by himself. Many of the passengers show as their home town just Hannover but I was fortunate that Frederick indicated he was from Schinckel, Hanover. And Bingo, there it was his home town and the link to further tracing the family!
 
So this long email is to say thanks to all that have helped so far and also to ask for a little more help.
 
I understand that Schinckel (at least the Schinckel that I think Frederick was from) was a town seperate from Osnabruck at one time but is now a part of Osnabruck. What I believe (at a minimum) I need to do is research the church records covering Schinckel. I believe that Frederick was a Catholic, at least his funeral was a Catholic Mass. So I think I am looking for Catholic Churches in the Schinckel area. Also looking for any Speckmanns in the Osnabruck area as possible relatives. Also I am open to any other advice anyone may have now that I have crossed the pond.
 
Thanks again to all that have helped,
 
Barney Speckman
Proud Decendent of a Speckmann from Schinckel Hannover

Re: [HN] Speckman Again

Date: 2006/02/10 17:30:23
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

---- bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote: 
>  
> Hi to all on the Hannnover list,
>  
> I would like to report a major success in my search for my German roots and it was made possible by the tremendous help I received by the active participants on this list. So thanks to Barbara, Gail, jb, Jill, David and many others for their help.
>  
> I started this process several months ago as a novice and traced my German family back to 1870 in San Francisco where I found my Great Grandfather Frederick and his new bride Anna in the 1870 Census. They lived about 2 blocks from where I work in downtown San Francisco. But I could not go back any farther until I fired off a quick (naive) email to this list. I reviewed a lot of advice on how to proceed in my research on this side of the pond and in Germany. And I have been following that advice and information has been falling in place. When I started the journey my main goal was to find where my GGF lived in Germany before he came to the US - this I was told was key to tracing back any further.
>  
> Last week I found Frederick Speckmann on the ship the Elizabeth coming to NY in 1860. Yesterday I was able to get the ships manifest and found my GGF who was 16 and traveling by himself. Many of the passengers show as their home town just Hannover but I was fortunate that Frederick indicated he was from Schinckel, Hanover. And Bingo, there it was his home town and the link to further tracing the family!
>  
> So this long email is to say thanks to all that have helped so far and also to ask for a little more help.
>  
> I understand that Schinckel (at least the Schinckel that I think Frederick was from) was a town seperate from Osnabruck at one time but is now a part of Osnabruck. What I believe (at a minimum) I need to do is research the church records covering Schinckel. I believe that Frederick was a Catholic, at least his funeral was a Catholic Mass. So I think I am looking for Catholic Churches in the Schinckel area. Also looking for any Speckmanns in the Osnabruck area as possible relatives. Also I am open to any other advice anyone may have now that I have crossed the pond.
>  
> Thanks again to all that have helped,
>  
> Barney Speckman
> Proud Decendent of a Speckmann from Schinckel Hannover
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Congratulations Barney
I know the feeling, that same thing happened to me less than 2 weeks ago. I had all my Great grandfathers information, ship name, date and port of arrival etc but lacked the name of his place of origin. Then when viewing an index list of Hamburg emegrees I found his name and it indicated the place of origin as Baddeckenstedt. This is where my current attention is directed. So far no luck, but someone has volunteered to help me search that area. I have mailed inquires to all Burgdorfs (all 5) in that village but not enought time has expired to get a return letter.
Since I have had great success in finding my mother's family in Dahn Germany I am planning a trip there in late April. I am praying that I get a breakthrough as to the Burgdorf name in Beddeckenstedt so I can go to both places. 
Let us know how you fare in your search in Schenkel.
Max Burgdorf

Re: [HN] Speckman Again

Date: 2006/02/10 17:59:49
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

> Barney Speckman
> Proud Decendent of a Speckmann from Schinckel Hannover > right spelling: Schinkel, part of Osnabrück
> ______________________________________________

Here the Speckmann addresses in Osnbrück:

Speckmann, Arne N.
  Am Funkturm 54
  49082 Osnabrück

Speckmann, Bernhard
  Sandbrink 5
  49086 Osnabrück

Speckmann, Christoph
  Adolf-Staperfeld-Str. 74
  49082 Osnabrück

Speckmann, Rainer
  Miquelstr. 28
  49082 Osnabrück

Speckmann, Sylke
  Schiefe Güntke 4
  49090 Osnabrück

Good luck,
Werner

[HN] Schledenhausen

Date: 2006/02/10 18:29:47
From: Carol Payne <snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net>

Dear Prof. Poetker,

Thank you so much for your input on the Schledenhausen church records.
Especially thank you for the address of St. Laurentius.  I will definitely
write to the Priest there.  Maybe a monetary contribution will help to put
my request a little closer to the top of his long list?

Another researcher has said that in the earlier days of the Lutheran church,
the Lutherans were required to go to the Catholic church to have their
birth, marriage, and death information recorded, even if these events took
place in the Lutheran church.  Later, the Lutheran church began keeping
their own records.  This may explain why the Christening of my great
grandmother, who was born in 1849, was found in the Lutheran church
records - and why I will need to look to the Catholic church for information
on my earlier ancestors.

Again, thank you for your help.  It is much appreciated!

Regards,
Carol Payne  SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net



Re: [HN] Speckman Again

Date: 2006/02/10 18:36:51
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi Barney,

    I think that Schinkel is spelled without that "c" .  Here is the listing
in the Catholic diocese of Osnabrück for the parish in Schinkel.  I want to
warn you ahead of time that you probably will be directed to the Diocesan
Archives and probably will get little help from the parish itself.
And--unless they have a new policy--the Archive office will do no research
for you and will tell you to hire a genealogist/researcher.  I have Catholic
family in the diocese and it has been a real struggle to get information.
We went there in 2002 and did research in that office ouselves. I was
looking in several towns and it is so time-consuming that I was unable to
complete my lines.  I am independent enough that I am not interested in
hiring anybody to do the research.  You may not feel that way.  I would
guess that Falk Liebezeit (on this mailing list) will be recommended by the
diocese. Here's the address for the church:
     
Osnabrück - Schinkel-Ost,
St. Maria Rosenkranz
49084 Osnabrück, Windthorststraße 62
Telefon 05 41/771 21; Fax: 0541/ 9773815
Email: info(a)rosenkranzgemeinde.de
http://www.rosenkranzgemeinde.de
Langewand, Heiner, Pfarrer

Barbara






on 2/10/06 8:55 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:

> 
> Hi to all on the Hannnover list,
> 
> I would like to report a major success in my search for my German roots and it
> was made possible by the tremendous help I received by the active participants
> on this list. So thanks to Barbara, Gail, jb, Jill, David and many others for
> their help.
> 
> I started this process several months ago as a novice and traced my German
> family back to 1870 in San Francisco where I found my Great Grandfather
> Frederick and his new bride Anna in the 1870 Census. They lived about 2 blocks
> from where I work in downtown San Francisco. But I could not go back any
> farther until I fired off a quick (naive) email to this list. I reviewed a lot
> of advice on how to proceed in my research on this side of the pond and in
> Germany. And I have been following that advice and information has been
> falling in place. When I started the journey my main goal was to find where my
> GGF lived in Germany before he came to the US - this I was told was key to
> tracing back any further.
> 
> Last week I found Frederick Speckmann on the ship the Elizabeth coming to NY
> in 1860. Yesterday I was able to get the ships manifest and found my GGF who
> was 16 and traveling by himself. Many of the passengers show as their home
> town just Hannover but I was fortunate that Frederick indicated he was from
> Schinckel, Hanover. And Bingo, there it was his home town and the link to
> further tracing the family!
> 
> So this long email is to say thanks to all that have helped so far and also to
> ask for a little more help.
> 
> I understand that Schinckel (at least the Schinckel that I think Frederick was
> from) was a town seperate from Osnabruck at one time but is now a part of
> Osnabruck. What I believe (at a minimum) I need to do is research the church
> records covering Schinckel. I believe that Frederick was a Catholic, at least
> his funeral was a Catholic Mass. So I think I am looking for Catholic Churches
> in the Schinckel area. Also looking for any Speckmanns in the Osnabruck area
> as possible relatives. Also I am open to any other advice anyone may have now
> that I have crossed the pond.
> 
> Thanks again to all that have helped,
> 
> Barney Speckman
> Proud Decendent of a Speckmann from Schinckel Hannover
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Re: Frederick A.

Date: 2006/02/10 18:41:21
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Armin:

It appears that JB and I still have the question: Do you have a nexus going backward to Frederick A.? If you don't you could be researching someone who is not related to you, but simply someone with a similar name. JB's posting explained those problems quite well.

Gale


On Wed, 16 Jun 1971 12:48:18 -0400
 AJHattorf(a)aol.com wrote:
Hi, this is Armin again

I thank you all so much for those mails. I never thought i would get so much help.
Ok i will try my very best.

At the present time i go on searching New York, Kings, Brooklyn at ancestry.com but it will take me weeks to see all those pages, hoping every day to find something. If there is nothing i will go on with New York, New York what you call Greater New York with Manhattan etc.

And i will use that link from that newspaper this afternoon to see if i can find a little hint.

I will see if my cousin from New York can take a look at the library in NY to see if there is anything in.

Thank you all

Armin


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Osnabrück, Forschungshilfe gesucht

Date: 2006/02/10 19:54:47
From: Efhensel <Efhensel(a)aol.com>

Hallo,

wer kann mir bei einer Forschung im Katholischen Bistumsarchiv helfen?

Es geht um Evangelische - Marten/Marting  - in Schledehausen bei Osnabrück, 
die vor 1803 im Katholischen KB geführt wurden.

Vielen Dank

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Eckhard Hensel


Re: [HN] Speckman Again

Date: 2006/02/10 20:11:52
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi Werner,
 
Thanks so much for the contacts in Osnabruck.
 
Thanks for the spelling. The spelling I used is from the ship's manifest.
 
Barney 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 18:00:11 +0100
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman Again



> Barney Speckman
> Proud Decendent of a Speckmann from Schinckel Hannover > right spelling: 
Schinkel, part of Osnabrück
> ______________________________________________

Here the Speckmann addresses in Osnbrück:

Speckmann, Arne N.
  Am Funkturm 54
  49082 Osnabrück

Speckmann, Bernhard
  Sandbrink 5
  49086 Osnabrück

Speckmann, Christoph
  Adolf-Staperfeld-Str. 74
  49082 Osnabrück

Speckmann, Rainer
  Miquelstr. 28
  49082 Osnabrück

Speckmann, Sylke
  Schiefe Güntke 4
  49090 Osnabrück

Good luck,
Werner
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Re: [HN] Speckman Again

Date: 2006/02/10 20:23:49
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi Barbara,
 
Once again, thank you.
 
You probably noticed that I have focused my immediate search on the Schinkel which is near (part of) Osnabruck. This is partly the result of the emigrant search that showed a Frederick F Speckmann emigrating from this area. I am still waiting for the documents that I requested for FF Speckman. 
 
I guess there is some chance that my GGF came for the other Schinkel in Germany. I must not rule that possibility out but do not plan to follow it up until I receive the Osnabruck records on FF Speckman. Any thoughts?
 
Thanks again,
 
Barney
 
-----Original Message-----
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:36:00 -0700
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman Again


Hi Barney,

    I think that Schinkel is spelled without that "c" .  Here is the listing
in the Catholic diocese of Osnabrück for the parish in Schinkel.  I want to
warn you ahead of time that you probably will be directed to the Diocesan
Archives and probably will get little help from the parish itself.
And--unless they have a new policy--the Archive office will do no research
for you and will tell you to hire a genealogist/researcher.  I have Catholic
family in the diocese and it has been a real struggle to get information.
We went there in 2002 and did research in that office ouselves. I was
looking in several towns and it is so time-consuming that I was unable to
complete my lines.  I am independent enough that I am not interested in
hiring anybody to do the research.  You may not feel that way.  I would
guess that Falk Liebezeit (on this mailing list) will be recommended by the
diocese. Here's the address for the church:
     
Osnabrück - Schinkel-Ost,
St. Maria Rosenkranz
49084 Osnabrück, Windthorststraße 62
Telefon 05 41/771 21; Fax: 0541/ 9773815
Email: info(a)rosenkranzgemeinde.de
http://www.rosenkranzgemeinde.de
Langewand, Heiner, Pfarrer

Barbara






on 2/10/06 8:55 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:

> 
> Hi to all on the Hannnover list,
> 
> I would like to report a major success in my search for my German roots and it
> was made possible by the tremendous help I received by the active participants
> on this list. So thanks to Barbara, Gail, jb, Jill, David and many others for
> their help.
> 
> I started this process several months ago as a novice and traced my German
> family back to 1870 in San Francisco where I found my Great Grandfather
> Frederick and his new bride Anna in the 1870 Census. They lived about 2 blocks
> from where I work in downtown San Francisco. But I could not go back any
> farther until I fired off a quick (naive) email to this list. I reviewed a lot
> of advice on how to proceed in my research on this side of the pond and in
> Germany. And I have been following that advice and information has been
> falling in place. When I started the journey my main goal was to find where my
> GGF lived in Germany before he came to the US - this I was told was key to
> tracing back any further.
> 
> Last week I found Frederick Speckmann on the ship the Elizabeth coming to NY
> in 1860. Yesterday I was able to get the ships manifest and found my GGF who
> was 16 and traveling by himself. Many of the passengers show as their home
> town just Hannover but I was fortunate that Frederick indicated he was from
> Schinckel, Hanover. And Bingo, there it was his home town and the link to
> further tracing the family!
> 
> So this long email is to say thanks to all that have helped so far and also to
> ask for a little more help.
> 
> I understand that Schinckel (at least the Schinckel that I think Frederick was
> from) was a town seperate from Osnabruck at one time but is now a part of
> Osnabruck. What I believe (at a minimum) I need to do is research the church
> records covering Schinckel. I believe that Frederick was a Catholic, at least
> his funeral was a Catholic Mass. So I think I am looking for Catholic Churches
> in the Schinckel area. Also looking for any Speckmanns in the Osnabruck area
> as possible relatives. Also I am open to any other advice anyone may have now
> that I have crossed the pond.
> 
> Thanks again to all that have helped,
> 
> Barney Speckman
> Proud Decendent of a Speckmann from Schinckel Hannover
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Speckmann of Schinkel

Date: 2006/02/10 20:32:59
From: FalkLiebe <FalkLiebe(a)t-online.de>

Dear Barney and Barbara, 
 
In 1823 Schinkel was a village of 76 households and 562 inhabitants, 
the proper catholic church parish is the cathedral (Dom) St. Peter,
the church parish Schinkel Heilig Kreuz was founded on April Day 1914
and Schinkel Ost St. Maria Rosenkranz (St. Mary s rosary) was split off
of Schinkel Holy Cross as a church parish on September Day 1921,
so I doubt that they can help you with your ancestry, 
the dicesan directory of 1990 says that Schinkel-Ost has vital records since
1918,
Schinkel Holy Cross has vital records since 1914-
whereas St. Peter has baptismal records since 1653, 
wedding records 1654 - 1676 and 1695 through this very day, 
burial records since 1654. 
 
Have a great weekend, greetings from Diepholz in the midst between Bremen
and Osnabrueck
 
Falk Liebezeit 
 

Re: [HN] Schledenhausen

Date: 2006/02/10 20:36:50
From: Efhensel <Efhensel(a)aol.com>

Hi Carol,

is this Schledenhausen or Schledehausen?   I have the same problem. Martings 
from Schledehausen near Osnabrueck,  Lutheran,  supposed to be in cathol. 
church records before 1803.

Are the records at the parish church or in the Bishop's Archive in Osnabrück 
( I was told)?


Regards,
Eckhard Hensel, Germany



> Thema: [HN] Schledenhausen 
>  Datum: 2006-02-10 18:30:14 Westeuropäische Normalzeit
>  Von: snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net
>  Beantworten: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
>  An: Hannover-l(a)genealogy.net, Jspoetker(a)aol.com
>  Internet-eMail: 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Prof. Poetker,
> 
> Thank you so much for your input on the Schledenhausen church records.
> Especially thank you for the address of St. Laurentius.  I will definitely
> write to the Priest there.  Maybe a monetary contribution will help to put
> my request a little closer to the top of his long list?
> 
> Another researcher has said that in the earlier days of the Lutheran church,
> the Lutherans were required to go to the Catholic church to have their
> birth, marriage, and death information recorded, even if these events took
> place in the Lutheran church.  Later, the Lutheran church began keeping
> their own records.  This may explain why the Christening of my great
> grandmother, who was born in 1849, was found in the Lutheran church
> records - and why I will need to look to the Catholic church for information
> on my earlier ancestors.
> 
> Again, thank you for your help.  It is much appreciated!
> 
> Regards,
> Carol Payne  SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net


Re: [HN] Speckman Again

Date: 2006/02/10 21:16:41
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Barney,
      That other Schinkel is located in Schleswig-Holstein.  Don't you have
indication that Frederick is from Hannover?  Furthermore, if your guy was on
the Osnabrück emigration list, you can be sure that you have the right area.
Please let us know what info is on the Osnabrück emigration record.  It's
always nice to find out you're barking up the RIGHT tree!
    It appears that Falk has some better information about the churches in
Osnabrück.  The Speckmann family would have been members of the cathedral in
Osnabrück itself.  
Barbara 


on 2/10/06 12:23 PM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:

> Hi Barbara,
> 
> Once again, thank you.
> 
> You probably noticed that I have focused my immediate search on the Schinkel
> which is near (part of) Osnabruck. This is partly the result of the emigrant
> search that showed a Frederick F Speckmann emigrating from this area. I am
> still waiting for the documents that I requested for FF Speckman.
> 
> I guess there is some chance that my GGF came for the other Schinkel in
> Germany. I must not rule that possibility out but do not plan to follow it up
> until I receive the Osnabruck records on FF Speckman. Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Barney
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:36:00 -0700
> Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman Again
> 
> 
> Hi Barney,
> 
> I think that Schinkel is spelled without that "c" .  Here is the listing
> in the Catholic diocese of Osnabrück for the parish in Schinkel.  I want to
> warn you ahead of time that you probably will be directed to the Diocesan
> Archives and probably will get little help from the parish itself.
> And--unless they have a new policy--the Archive office will do no research
> for you and will tell you to hire a genealogist/researcher.  I have Catholic
> family in the diocese and it has been a real struggle to get information.
> We went there in 2002 and did research in that office ouselves. I was
> looking in several towns and it is so time-consuming that I was unable to
> complete my lines.  I am independent enough that I am not interested in
> hiring anybody to do the research.  You may not feel that way.  I would
> guess that Falk Liebezeit (on this mailing list) will be recommended by the
> diocese. Here's the address for the church:
> 
> Osnabrück - Schinkel-Ost,
> St. Maria Rosenkranz
> 49084 Osnabrück, Windthorststraße 62
> Telefon 05 41/771 21; Fax: 0541/ 9773815
> Email: info(a)rosenkranzgemeinde.de
> http://www.rosenkranzgemeinde.de
> Langewand, Heiner, Pfarrer
> 
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on 2/10/06 8:55 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hi to all on the Hannnover list,
>> 
>> I would like to report a major success in my search for my German roots and
>> it
>> was made possible by the tremendous help I received by the active
>> participants
>> on this list. So thanks to Barbara, Gail, jb, Jill, David and many others for
>> their help.
>> 
>> I started this process several months ago as a novice and traced my German
>> family back to 1870 in San Francisco where I found my Great Grandfather
>> Frederick and his new bride Anna in the 1870 Census. They lived about 2
>> blocks
>> from where I work in downtown San Francisco. But I could not go back any
>> farther until I fired off a quick (naive) email to this list. I reviewed a
>> lot
>> of advice on how to proceed in my research on this side of the pond and in
>> Germany. And I have been following that advice and information has been
>> falling in place. When I started the journey my main goal was to find where
>> my
>> GGF lived in Germany before he came to the US - this I was told was key to
>> tracing back any further.
>> 
>> Last week I found Frederick Speckmann on the ship the Elizabeth coming to NY
>> in 1860. Yesterday I was able to get the ships manifest and found my GGF who
>> was 16 and traveling by himself. Many of the passengers show as their home
>> town just Hannover but I was fortunate that Frederick indicated he was from
>> Schinckel, Hanover. And Bingo, there it was his home town and the link to
>> further tracing the family!
>> 
>> So this long email is to say thanks to all that have helped so far and also
>> to
>> ask for a little more help.
>> 
>> I understand that Schinckel (at least the Schinckel that I think Frederick
>> was
>> from) was a town seperate from Osnabruck at one time but is now a part of
>> Osnabruck. What I believe (at a minimum) I need to do is research the church
>> records covering Schinckel. I believe that Frederick was a Catholic, at least
>> his funeral was a Catholic Mass. So I think I am looking for Catholic
>> Churches
>> in the Schinckel area. Also looking for any Speckmanns in the Osnabruck area
>> as possible relatives. Also I am open to any other advice anyone may have now
>> that I have crossed the pond.
>> 
>> Thanks again to all that have helped,
>> 
>> Barney Speckman
>> Proud Decendent of a Speckmann from Schinckel Hannover
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Speckmann of Schinkel

Date: 2006/02/10 22:16:10
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Dear Falk,
 
Thank you so much for your excellant advice.
 
Best Regards,
 
Barney Speckman 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: FalkLiebe(a)t-online.de
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Cc: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
Sent: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:32:43 +0100
Subject: [HN] Speckmann of Schinkel


Dear Barney and Barbara, 
 
In 1823 Schinkel was a village of 76 households and 562 inhabitants, 
the proper catholic church parish is the cathedral (Dom) St. Peter,
the church parish Schinkel Heilig Kreuz was founded on April Day 1914
and Schinkel Ost St. Maria Rosenkranz (St. Mary s rosary) was split off
of Schinkel Holy Cross as a church parish on September Day 1921,
so I doubt that they can help you with your ancestry, 
the dicesan directory of 1990 says that Schinkel-Ost has vital records since 1918,
Schinkel Holy Cross has vital records since 1914-
whereas St. Peter has baptismal records since 1653, 
wedding records 1654 - 1676 and 1695 through this very day, 
burial records since 1654. 
 
Have a great weekend, greetings from Diepholz in the midst between Bremen and Osnabrueck
 
Falk Liebezeit 
 

Re: [HN] Speckman Again

Date: 2006/02/10 22:21:50
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi Barbara,
 
Yes, I do have indications that he is from Hannover and becuase of my poor knowledge of German geography missed the fact that the other Schinkel is outside of the Kingdom of Hannover. I will let you know what is in the records from Osnabruck emigration - shold be here anyday now.
 
Thanks again,
 
Barney Speckman  
 
-----Original Message-----
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 13:16:21 -0700
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman Again


Hello Barney,
      That other Schinkel is located in Schleswig-Holstein.  Don't you have
indication that Frederick is from Hannover?  Furthermore, if your guy was on
the Osnabrück emigration list, you can be sure that you have the right area.
Please let us know what info is on the Osnabrück emigration record.  It's
always nice to find out you're barking up the RIGHT tree!
    It appears that Falk has some better information about the churches in
Osnabrück.  The Speckmann family would have been members of the cathedral in
Osnabrück itself.  
Barbara 


on 2/10/06 12:23 PM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:

> Hi Barbara,
> 
> Once again, thank you.
> 
> You probably noticed that I have focused my immediate search on the Schinkel
> which is near (part of) Osnabruck. This is partly the result of the emigrant
> search that showed a Frederick F Speckmann emigrating from this area. I am
> still waiting for the documents that I requested for FF Speckman.
> 
> I guess there is some chance that my GGF came for the other Schinkel in
> Germany. I must not rule that possibility out but do not plan to follow it up
> until I receive the Osnabruck records on FF Speckman. Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Barney
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:36:00 -0700
> Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman Again
> 
> 
> Hi Barney,
> 
> I think that Schinkel is spelled without that "c" .  Here is the listing
> in the Catholic diocese of Osnabrück for the parish in Schinkel.  I want to
> warn you ahead of time that you probably will be directed to the Diocesan
> Archives and probably will get little help from the parish itself.
> And--unless they have a new policy--the Archive office will do no research
> for you and will tell you to hire a genealogist/researcher.  I have Catholic
> family in the diocese and it has been a real struggle to get information.
> We went there in 2002 and did research in that office ouselves. I was
> looking in several towns and it is so time-consuming that I was unable to
> complete my lines.  I am independent enough that I am not interested in
> hiring anybody to do the research.  You may not feel that way.  I would
> guess that Falk Liebezeit (on this mailing list) will be recommended by the
> diocese. Here's the address for the church:
> 
> Osnabrück - Schinkel-Ost,
> St. Maria Rosenkranz
> 49084 Osnabrück, Windthorststraße 62
> Telefon 05 41/771 21; Fax: 0541/ 9773815
> Email: info(a)rosenkranzgemeinde.de
> http://www.rosenkranzgemeinde.de
> Langewand, Heiner, Pfarrer
> 
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on 2/10/06 8:55 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hi to all on the Hannnover list,
>> 
>> I would like to report a major success in my search for my German roots and
>> it
>> was made possible by the tremendous help I received by the active
>> participants
>> on this list. So thanks to Barbara, Gail, jb, Jill, David and many others for
>> their help.
>> 
>> I started this process several months ago as a novice and traced my German
>> family back to 1870 in San Francisco where I found my Great Grandfather
>> Frederick and his new bride Anna in the 1870 Census. They lived about 2
>> blocks
>> from where I work in downtown San Francisco. But I could not go back any
>> farther until I fired off a quick (naive) email to this list. I reviewed a
>> lot
>> of advice on how to proceed in my research on this side of the pond and in
>> Germany. And I have been following that advice and information has been
>> falling in place. When I started the journey my main goal was to find where
>> my
>> GGF lived in Germany before he came to the US - this I was told was key to
>> tracing back any further.
>> 
>> Last week I found Frederick Speckmann on the ship the Elizabeth coming to NY
>> in 1860. Yesterday I was able to get the ships manifest and found my GGF who
>> was 16 and traveling by himself. Many of the passengers show as their home
>> town just Hannover but I was fortunate that Frederick indicated he was from
>> Schinckel, Hanover. And Bingo, there it was his home town and the link to
>> further tracing the family!
>> 
>> So this long email is to say thanks to all that have helped so far and also
>> to
>> ask for a little more help.
>> 
>> I understand that Schinckel (at least the Schinckel that I think Frederick
>> was
>> from) was a town seperate from Osnabruck at one time but is now a part of
>> Osnabruck. What I believe (at a minimum) I need to do is research the church
>> records covering Schinckel. I believe that Frederick was a Catholic, at least
>> his funeral was a Catholic Mass. So I think I am looking for Catholic
>> Churches
>> in the Schinckel area. Also looking for any Speckmanns in the Osnabruck area
>> as possible relatives. Also I am open to any other advice anyone may have now
>> that I have crossed the pond.
>> 
>> Thanks again to all that have helped,
>> 
>> Barney Speckman
>> Proud Decendent of a Speckmann from Schinckel Hannover
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Ottenstein and Hemeringen

Date: 2006/02/10 22:52:30
From: Don E. Schaefer <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>

Hannover List --

I have had good luck finding connections back in Germany because of
some good notes a relative made while visiting there in 1931.  My
great-grandfather, George William Schaefer, came from Ottenstein in
1856.  That is the Ottenstein that is upstream from Hameln on the
Weser River, on the Ottenstein plateau on the west side of the Weser.
We have visited there twice and have close contact with relatives in
Ottenstein and Hannover.

I would be interested in learning about others in America who have
ties with Ottenstein.

Also, my great-grandmother, Caroline Wilkening, came from Hemeringen.
It is closer to Hameln, a little west and north.  I have not been
able to locate any relatives there.  One was located in another part
of Germany, but he never answered my letters.

Later I will tell about all the good assistance I received from
Jürgen Ritter at the Genealogical Society in Hannover.  It is a long
story.  He was such a great help!

Don Schaefer

Re: [HN] Speckman Again

Date: 2006/02/10 22:59:09
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Congratulations again Barney. Between you and Max, there have been two major breakthroughs in the last few weeks on the list. This is always nice to see, and additional encouragement for those who are hammering away trying to determine that elusive ancestral point of origin. It also shows the power and potential of this Anglo-German H-L board when everything comes together, with contributions from both sides of the lake.

Needless to say (and for anyone unclear on it), Dave's recent advice applies to every other port of embarkation also, beyond just Hamburg (though that port remains the biggest and best out of Germany as things stand). Once you determine the departure point, it becomes a matter of seeing if a corresponding record from the other end exists. From an earlier post:

From : J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com> 
Sent : Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:52 PM 
To : hannover-l(a)genealogy.net 
Subject : RE: [HN] Hannover Schroeder family found! 

NARA passenger lists are available indeed from the LDS organization. You can search for and order the necessary films c/o your local FHC (and possibly online). If you really want to push it to the hilt, you could attempt to nab documentation of both ends of the crossing, the port of embarkation as well as the port of arrival. This is more a matter of luck (available resources being what they are), and will also be somewhat redundant should both be found. But the records are not necessarily rubber stamps of each other, as you will see if you compare them. 

From: "Dave B." <oakville.blackwalnut(a)gmail.com>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: [HN] Ongoing Serach For Speckman
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:51:57 -0600

Barney,

If your ancestor left from Hamburg, you're in luck:

http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/hamburg.html

The microfilmed Hamburg emigration records are easy to use if you know
the approximate date of departure and the name of the ship.

Dave

Jill offered another head's up possibility in this regard re ship sites. 

For those new to the list who might be looking for ship backgrounds and descriptions, one good webbie to search is that of early H-L member (and fellow Californian) Michael Palmer. Unfortunately H-L hasn't had his good company for a number of years now ~
Emigration Ship Histories: 
http://www.geocities.com/mppraetorius/

Same goes with Arnie Lang (another ex H-L alumni) and his site ~
Research Guide to Immigration and Ship's Passenger Lists: 
http://home.att.net/%7Earnielang/shipgide.html

BTW B, you can be pretty certain at this point that you're in the right neck of the woods with Schinkel~Osnabrück. ;)

Continued success mate. Jb

From : <MagdalenaJLM(a)aol.com> 
Sent : Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:34 AM 
To : hannover-l(a)genealogy.net 
Subject : Re: [HN] Ongoing Serach For Speckman 

Yes, you can seach by a date or by a ship.

Have a Nice Day! Jill

> Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 10:06:25 -0500
> From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
> Subject: [HN] Ongoing Serach For Speckman
> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
>
> Hi Hannover Sleuths,
>
> Thanks to many fine suggestions from you all, I have been able to advance
> my search for my Great Grandfather Frederick F Speckman(n) from the 1870
> US Census to his entry into the US in 1860. The details of his entry are as
> follows:
>
> Entered in New York, at Castle Garden
> Date June 6 1860 arrival
> Name Fredk Speckmann
> Age 16
> Ocupation Farmer
> Ship Elizabeth
>
> I am trying to obtain a copy of the record from New York. Meanwhile I am
> tryng to find out if there is a way to search from the other end (Germany), > knowing the arrival date and ships's name. That is, are there lists of emigrants
> leaving from Germany based upon date and ship?
>
> Any help would be apprecaited,
>
> Thanks,
>
> Barney Speckman

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963


[HN] I Love this map!

Date: 2006/02/10 23:17:09
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi,
     I'm trying to organize all the several hundred "favorite" websites I
have saved and I came across this map.  Central Europe

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/central_europe_1815_1866.
jpg

     My brain is overstuffed and I do forget things! Maybe one of you sent
it sometime. I had saved the site at some point,  but plainly forgot about
it. I hope you all like it.

Barbara 


[HN] DIPPEL, BAADE, OBERNOLTE

Date: 2006/02/10 23:19:06
From: Wilfried Doll <1951wido(a)schlundmail.de>

Liebe Forscherkollegen,
vielleicht hat jemand etwas um meine spärlichen Daten aufzubessern?

1. Dippel, Wilhelm, Schlosser
oo Emilie Baade

4 Kinder von Nr. 1

2. Dippel, Else
oo Nordhausen,,NS,D Willi-1 Holzwirt, Schneidermeister
3. Dippel, Harry
oo Martha Gese
4. Dippel, Heinrich
oo ABT 1931 Emmi Obernolte
5. Dippel, Willi
oo Else Laube

Matha Gese, die mit Harry Dippel verheiratet war wohnte in Einbeck. Die Ehe war kinderlos
Beide sind vor einigen Jahren verstorben
Der Vater von Matha Gese war Schneidermeister mit eigenem Geschäft.

mit freundlichen Grüßen
Wilfried (Doll)




Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index

Date: 2006/02/10 23:22:27
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Good point Barbara. Searching for your ancestors on ANY passenger list - via an online resource or by microfilm - remains something of a throw of the dice in the end. Another key factor to remember is that your people may not show up in the INDEXES. Beyond what actual lists and ledgers have survived, and which ones are indexed or soundexed currently, there remains the very real factor that those you seek may be "transparent" to the indexes, that is, they may have been picked up incorrectly (misspelled) or not at all. HUMAN FACTORS = ERRORS ABOUND. The only way to know for certain - at least as close to "certainty" as possible - is to search the actual passenger lists themselves on film, attempting to put together as many clues as possible beforehand to narrow things down. The problem with this of course is that it can be extremely time-consuming as well as physically and mentally taxing unless you have some idea of a reasonable time-frame, and ideally, the port they entered. Short of that, it can seem - indeed can be - a rather daunting task.

For all these reasons, if any of your ancestors are spotted freely and quickly in any published indexes (beyond simply the Hannover Emigration Index), consider yourself ahead of the curve!

Brings me to an amusing but true story, one that cuts in just the opposite direction though. Some 12 to 15 years ago I ordered in every NY passenger list I could find for 1868, 1869 and 1870, as I was determined to find my family in them once and for all, based on the clues I had pieced together up to that time - which wasn't all that much. After the better part of 2 days or more (it's but a blur now) combing thru those film reels morning until night, I found them -- at the end of the (wouldn't you know it) 1870 film set. One of the very last ships into port, in December 1870! I WAS EXHAUSTED, and wondered if my eyes would ever recover from the assault. Looking back at it, let's just say it hurt so good. :)

Now in my euphoria, I mentioned to an old friend I saw there at our local FHC that I had finally - FINALLY - found the elusive immigration/arrival record of our family in the microfilm reels I had ordered in. She naturally congratulated me, adding how wonderful it was that we had the new GERMANS TO AMERICA series to peruse as a reference, and that we should consider ourselves very lucky that the local FHC was intending to keep them updated by adding to them regularly. Needless to say, you could have hit me over with a feather. Hesitatingly (or was it in shell shock?) I went to the shelf where they were situated - unbeknownst to me until then - and found the same very listing (ship and date included) in two minutes flat. PLONK!

Memories über tears. ;)

Jb

From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover Emigration Index
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 17:09:46 -0700

Hey People,
You can't conclude anything definite about people not on the emigration
lists. Those lists cover only a small number of persons who emigrated.
None of my relatives are on those lists. In fact, what I have found during
the last couple years in helping other folks is that it is more likely that
your emigrant ancestors will not be on the lists. Why that is the case is
probably not known. Furthermore, it doesn't include people from
Ostfriesland, Oldenburg, Hamburg, and other regions.
It is just the wonderful tool that indicates birthplace, which we all know
is key to further genealogical research.
Barbara

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


[HN] Re: Frederick A.

Date: 2006/02/10 23:46:54
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Hi Gale
 
ALL Hattorfs (Hattorffs long before Hattorp) are somewhere related ....  
there are not "strange" Hattorfs they have all the same ancestor, of course they  
might be related "very close" or "very far". Thats the question as long i dont 
 find the grandfather of Frederick A. (the father is Johann August Hattorff) 
i  cannot see how close they are related to my familybranch.
 
He was living in Memsen Hoya which was not so far away from Bremen and the  
Bremen family branch is very close related to me.
 
So his descendends may be cousins 6th degree to me. This is a difficult  
point of view, some people might say they are strangers some wills say he is a  
Hattorf.
 
Of course you will find especially in the USA some people with similar  names:
 
Hittorf, Haltorf and so on, but i have that family tree of the german  
Hattorf family and so i know which one i have to search in the States. 
 
As i know there were only 3 real Hattorf immigrants to the USA
 
about 1842: Friedrich August Hattorff (Frederick A. Hattorf) from  MemsenHoya 
near Bremen
about 1885: Johann Hermann Hattorff (Herman Hattorff) from  Bremen/Achim
about 1872: Johann Friedrich Heinrich Hattorff from Bremen (using in the  
States the name Frederick Hattorf or sometimes John F. Hattorf he had a liquor  
store in NY in 1890)
 
Nr. 2 is an uncle of Nr. 3 and the relationship of Nr. 1 is not clear but  he 
has surely a visitor of the Bremen tree and in this time nobody would make 2  
times a voyage with a ship to the USA to see someone who is not related  
somewhere. Do you agree with me?
 
My very best
Armin
 
 
 
.
 
 
 

RE: [HN] Re: Frederick A. Hattorf

Date: 2006/02/11 02:03:14
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Hi Armin ~

A classic example of searching forward instead of backward. We, as the descendants of German emigrants, are forced to look in the backward direction from the present. Interesting how you, born and raised in our (former) ancestral homelands, will trace things forward instead when searching for emigrant cousins, or when documenting those who "got away" (the apples that fell off the tree, and kept rolling). ;)

How wonderful - and enviable - that you have such a well documented family tree going back to that time. It's like a treasure map, only filled with human Hattorfs. What we as Americans (or Canadians, Australians, etc.) would give for one of those!

ALL Hattorfs (Hattorffs long before Hattorp) are somewhere related .... 

That is something we can rarely say with accuracy or assurance in a country the size and makeup of the USA, regardless of surname.

At the present time i go on searching New York, Kings, Brooklyn at ancestry.com but it will take me weeks to see all those pages, hoping every day to find something. If there is nothing i will go on with New York, New York what you call Greater New York with Manhattan etc. I will see if my cousin from New York can take a look at the library in NY to see if there is anything in.

A cousin in NY .. eureka! Perhaps your cousin can determine if the 1855 state census that Art and Don cited is indexed or soundexed. That might be illuminating as regards F.A.H. and family during that key timeframe. Also the city directories from that period might help pinpoint family location, and don't overlook obituary/death indexes that many larger city libraries keep for their areas in the U.S. (more smart ideas from the list).

If you were real lucky, FAH or one of his sons may have had a "mug book" (biographical) sketch published in a local history book of the time (these histories were very popular in the late 19th and early 20th century in America). They are often referred to as 'mug books' because some folks frowned up such "mugging" for the cameras (er, books), considering it vain at best. Moreover, you almost always paid the author or local historian for inclusion, and then supplied the necessary details of your life and family, and sometimes family background. Generally the more you paid, the more in depth the sketch would be. So while some would have nothing to do with such productions (or practices), others leapt at the opportunity to be recorded for posterity, however small it might be. That being the case, these "vanity" bios/articles are pretty much cherished 3 or 4 generations hence by the lucky descendents of anyone who originally paid to have them produced. Whether born of vanity or foresight, they often provide details on one's early ancestry not obtainable anywhere else.

So his descendends may be cousins 6th degree to me. This is a difficult point of view, some people might say they are strangers some wills say he is a Hattorf.

It would be my guess that if you locate any of your distant cousins here on the American side, they would be flattered to say the least that someone from the old world "found" them. What a surprise that would be! Of course they may or may not go by the name "Hattorf" any longer, with the passing of so many generations, but a cousin is a cousin indeed (and regardless of degree). Moreover, I have found that some of the "best" cousins one might find are the ones who no longer share the same surname. :-)

in this time nobody would make 2 times a voyage with a ship to the USA to see someone who is not related somewhere. Do you agree with me?

I'd agree, but I wasn't aware he made 2 journeys. If this is true, it would be unusual to say the least, especially back then.

By the way, my money's on #1.Go F.A.!  ;)

Jb

PS. I like Barbie-Lew's take on FA relocating to Virginia. Perhaps it had to do with the tobacco, and better soil or climate (you never know).


From: AJHattorf(a)aol.com
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Re: Frederick A.
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 17:46:40 EST

Hi Gale

ALL Hattorfs (Hattorffs long before Hattorp) are somewhere related ....
there are not "strange" Hattorfs they have all the same ancestor, of course they might be related "very close" or "very far". Thats the question as long i dont
find the grandfather of Frederick A. (the father is Johann August Hattorff)
i  cannot see how close they are related to my familybranch.

He was living in Memsen Hoya which was not so far away from Bremen and the
Bremen family branch is very close related to me.

So his descendends may be cousins 6th degree to me. This is a difficult
point of view, some people might say they are strangers some wills say he is a
Hattorf.

Of course you will find especially in the USA some people with similar names:

Hittorf, Haltorf and so on, but i have that family tree of the german
Hattorf family and so i know which one i have to search in the States.

As i know there were only 3 real Hattorf immigrants to the USA

about 1842: Friedrich August Hattorff (Frederick A. Hattorf) from MemsenHoya
near Bremen
about 1885: Johann Hermann Hattorff (Herman Hattorff) from  Bremen/Achim
about 1872: Johann Friedrich Heinrich Hattorff from Bremen (using in the
States the name Frederick Hattorf or sometimes John F. Hattorf he had a liquor
store in NY in 1890)

Nr. 2 is an uncle of Nr. 3 and the relationship of Nr. 1 is not clear but he has surely a visitor of the Bremen tree and in this time nobody would make 2
times a voyage with a ship to the USA to see someone who is not related
somewhere. Do you agree with me?

My very best
Armin

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


Re: [HN] I Love this map!

Date: 2006/02/11 04:38:34
From: Carol Payne <snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net>

Wow!  Thanks Barbara.  I've been looking for something like these maps for a
long time.  The site is now in my "favorites" (which also needs to be
organized and cleaned out one of these days....!)

Carol Payne  SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: <Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: [HN] I Love this map!


> Hi,
>      I'm trying to organize all the several hundred "favorite" websites I
> have saved and I came across this map.  Central Europe
>
>
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/central_europe_1815_1866.
> jpg
>
>      My brain is overstuffed and I do forget things! Maybe one of you sent
> it sometime. I had saved the site at some point,  but plainly forgot about
> it. I hope you all like it.
>
> Barbara
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>



Re: [HN] Re: Frederick A. Hattorf

Date: 2006/02/11 04:46:40
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>


Hi Armin:

I have to second JB's comments.

Gale

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 17:03:05 -0800
 "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Armin ~

A classic example of searching forward instead of backward. We, as the descendants of German emigrants, are forced to look in the backward direction from the present. Interesting how you, born and raised in our (former) ancestral homelands, will trace things forward instead when searching for emigrant cousins, or when documenting those who "got away" (the apples that fell off the tree, and kept rolling). ;)

How wonderful - and enviable - that you have such a well documented family tree going back to that time. It's like a treasure map, only filled with human Hattorfs. What we as Americans (or Canadians, Australians, etc.) would give for one of those!

ALL Hattorfs (Hattorffs long before Hattorp) are somewhere related .... 

That is something we can rarely say with accuracy or assurance in a country the size and makeup of the USA, regardless of surname.

At the present time i go on searching New York, Kings, Brooklyn at ancestry.com but it will take me weeks to see all those pages, hoping every day to find something. If there is nothing i will go on with New York, New York what you call Greater New York with Manhattan etc. I will see if my cousin from New York can take a look at the library in NY to see if there is anything in.

A cousin in NY .. eureka! Perhaps your cousin can determine if the 1855 state census that Art and Don cited is indexed or soundexed. That might be illuminating as regards F.A.H. and family during that key timeframe. Also the city directories from that period might help pinpoint family location, and don't overlook obituary/death indexes that many larger city libraries keep for their areas in the U.S. (more smart ideas from the list).

If you were real lucky, FAH or one of his sons may have had a "mug book" (biographical) sketch published in a local history book of the time (these histories were very popular in the late 19th and early 20th century in America). They are often referred to as 'mug books' because some folks frowned up such "mugging" for the cameras (er, books), considering it vain at best. Moreover, you almost always paid the author or local historian for inclusion, and then supplied the necessary details of your life and family, and sometimes family background. Generally the more you paid, the more in depth the sketch would be. So while some would have nothing to do with such productions (or practices), others leapt at the opportunity to be recorded for posterity, however small it might be. That being the case, these "vanity" bios/articles are pretty much cherished 3 or 4 generations hence by the lucky descendents of anyone who originally paid to have them produced. Whether born of vanity or foresight, they often provide details on one's early ancestry not obtainable anywhere else.

So his descendends may be cousins 6th degree to me. This is a difficult point of view, some people might say they are strangers some wills say he is a Hattorf.

It would be my guess that if you locate any of your distant cousins here on the American side, they would be flattered to say the least that someone from the old world "found" them. What a surprise that would be! Of course they may or may not go by the name "Hattorf" any longer, with the passing of so many generations, but a cousin is a cousin indeed (and regardless of degree). Moreover, I have found that some of the "best" cousins one might find are the ones who no longer share the same surname. :-)

in this time nobody would make 2 times a voyage with a ship to the USA to see someone who is not related somewhere. Do you agree with me?

I'd agree, but I wasn't aware he made 2 journeys. If this is true, it would be unusual to say the least, especially back then.

By the way, my money's on #1.Go F.A.!  ;)

Jb

PS. I like Barbie-Lew's take on FA relocating to Virginia. Perhaps it had to do with the tobacco, and better soil or climate (you never know).


From: AJHattorf(a)aol.com
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Re: Frederick A.
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 17:46:40 EST

Hi Gale

ALL Hattorfs (Hattorffs long before Hattorp) are somewhere related .... there are not "strange" Hattorfs they have all the same ancestor, of course they might be related "very close" or "very far". Thats the question as long i dont find the grandfather of Frederick A. (the father is Johann August Hattorff) i cannot see how close they are related to my familybranch.

He was living in Memsen Hoya which was not so far away from Bremen and the
Bremen family branch is very close related to me.

So his descendends may be cousins 6th degree to me. This is a difficult point of view, some people might say they are strangers some wills say he is a
Hattorf.

Of course you will find especially in the USA some people with similar names:

Hittorf, Haltorf and so on, but i have that family tree of the german Hattorf family and so i know which one i have to search in the States.

As i know there were only 3 real Hattorf immigrants to the USA

about 1842: Friedrich August Hattorff (Frederick A. Hattorf) from MemsenHoya
near Bremen
about 1885: Johann Hermann Hattorff (Herman Hattorff) from Bremen/Achim about 1872: Johann Friedrich Heinrich Hattorff from Bremen (using in the States the name Frederick Hattorf or sometimes John F. Hattorf he had a liquor
store in NY in 1890)

Nr. 2 is an uncle of Nr. 3 and the relationship of Nr. 1 is not clear but he has surely a visitor of the Bremen tree and in this time nobody would make 2 times a voyage with a ship to the USA to see someone who is not related
somewhere. Do you agree with me?

My very best
Armin

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] I Love this map!

Date: 2006/02/11 04:51:40
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hey Barbara thanks!

You understated it, Central Europe plus dozens of others.

Gale


On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 21:32:19 -0600
 "Carol Payne" <snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net> wrote:
Wow! Thanks Barbara. I've been looking for something like these maps for a long time. The site is now in my "favorites" (which also needs to be
organized and cleaned out one of these days....!)

Carol Payne  SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net


----- Original Message ----- From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: <Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: [HN] I Love this map!


Hi,
I'm trying to organize all the several hundred "favorite" websites I
have saved and I came across this map.  Central Europe


http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/central_europe_1815_1866.
jpg

My brain is overstuffed and I do forget things! Maybe one of you sent it sometime. I had saved the site at some point, but plainly forgot about
it. I hope you all like it.

Barbara

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] RE: Schledenhausen - Schledehausen

Date: 2006/02/11 05:00:14
From: Carol Payne <snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net>

> is this Schledenhausen or Schledehausen?

I believe the correct spelling is without the "n".

> Martings from Schledehausen near Osnabrueck,  >Lutheran, supposed to be in
cathol. church records >before 1803.

I have been recently told that each church kept their own records,
regardless if they were Lutheran or Catholic.  I have also been told that
the records are at the parish churches, but that duplicate records can be
found in the Bishop's Archive in Onabruck.  My plan is to check with both
places.

Regards,
Carol Payne  SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net



[HN] Historical Maps

Date: 2006/02/11 07:19:28
From: BrigitteJahnke <BrigitteJahnke(a)aol.com>

If you are looking for some good historical maps of Germany:
 
_http://www.hoeckmann.de/_ (http://www.hoeckmann.de/) 
 
Good luck!
 
Brigitte Jahnke

Re: [HN] I Love this map!

Date: 2006/02/11 09:01:49
From: Emmerich . Albert <Emmerich.Albert(a)t-online.de>

Hi Barbara,
sorry, but the map is not any longer available by that link ...

Albert from Cremlingen/Germany

"R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net> schrieb:
> Hi,
>      I'm trying to organize all the several hundred "favorite" websites I
> have saved and I came across this map.  Central Europe
> 
> http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/central_europe_1815_1866.
> jpg
> 
>      My brain is overstuffed and I do forget things! Maybe one of you sent
> it sometime. I had saved the site at some point,  but plainly forgot about
> it. I hope you all like it.
> 
> Barbara 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 


Re: [HN] I Love this map!

Date: 2006/02/11 09:19:16
From: Mona <HeritageHunt(a)Sandyview.info>

Emmerich.Albert(a)t-online.de wrote:
Hi Barbara,
sorry, but the map is not any longer available by that link ...

Albert from Cremlingen/Germany

"R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net> schrieb:

Hi,
    I'm trying to organize all the several hundred "favorite" websites I
have saved and I came across this map.  Central Europe


http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/central_europe_1815_1866.jpg

Emmerich,
The URL is very long. You will probably have to copy and paste it into your browser. Then it will work just fine.

Mona

--
Mona Houser
HeritageHunt(a)sandyview.info
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/

Re: [HN] I Love this map!

Date: 2006/02/11 09:24:11
From: Emmerich . Albert <Emmerich.Albert(a)t-online.de>

Thank you - it works!
Albert

"Mona" <HeritageHunt(a)Sandyview.info> schrieb:
> Emmerich.Albert(a)t-online.de wrote:
> > Hi Barbara,
> > sorry, but the map is not any longer available by that link ...
> > 
> > Albert from Cremlingen/Germany
> > 
> > "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net> schrieb:
> > 
> >>Hi,
> >>     I'm trying to organize all the several hundred "favorite" websites I
> >>have saved and I came across this map.  Central Europe
> 
> 
> http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/central_europe_1815_1866.jpg
> 
> Emmerich,
> The URL is very long.  You will probably have to copy and paste it into 
> your browser.  Then it will work just fine.
> 
> Mona
> 
> -- 
> Mona Houser
> HeritageHunt(a)sandyview.info
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 

[HN] Re: Frederick A.

Date: 2006/02/11 10:53:34
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

 
In einer eMail vom 11.02.2006 07:20:31 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt  
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

That is  something we can rarely say with accuracy or assurance in a country 
the  size and makeup of the USA, regardless of surname.



Hi John
 
Yes but all 3 Hattorffamilys in the USA are related and didn't know that or  
feel only distant related, cause those in the North do not want to be related 
to  those in the South:-)))))))))
 
And i had some luck with the family tree of the old Hattorfs. In 1960 you  
find in the Heimatblätter für den süd-westlichen Harzrand (little booklets) the  
chronic of the Hattorf family in Osterode. Later revised in 1980 cause in 
1960  they have forgotten in the head of the tree a brother! what is horrible for 
a  tree.
 
This time the tree was beginning with Valentin Hattorf and his son  Heinrich, 
later they found out that Heinrich living in Osterode had a brother  living 
in Duderstadt in the neighborhood, and the family has always moving  around 
from Duderstadt to Osterode and backwards so they felt like one family  even 
living in different towns.
 
So we had the name Valentin Hattorf born 1511, but later i had some more  
luck.
 
There was a genealogist in the USA C. Frederick Kaufholz living in CT his  
family is from Duderstadt and he is related "around 3 corners like we say" with  
Hattorf. And he published the family tree of Wernher von Braun your  
"rocketspezialist" and in position 2500 and somewhat you find in 1420 Hildebrand  
Hattorf (Hattorp) and his son Heine and his son Hans and his son Valentin, so  
thank you Mr. von Braun that you had the money to do such intensive  
researches......
 
And C. Frederick was in the LDS church so you find many entries today "sent  
from an LDS member after 1991".
 
But they didnt know anything about the Bremen part of the 18th century.  Even 
my father never found out that there was a Hattorf family in the  States.
 
I was beginning 3 years ago and i found in the net the name Hermann  Hattorff 
in Bremen and i was beginning researches .... and then i found the  family of 
my cousin in NY. It took me two years to find his GGGfather here in  Germany, 
it was very very difficult.
 
My cousins in America got a complete family tree in only 2 years with all  
names from F.A. to the living persons the same procedure in NY. from Johann  
Hermann to the today living people.
 
 
Ok back to Frederick A. or Friedrich August. I am absolutely sure he is a  
"real" Hattorf. I was searching for Hattorf in all variations at ancestry.com.  
The hardest misspeling was Thomas E. Fattore instead of Thomas E. Hattorf.  
Finding this i tried one more possible misspelling:
 
Hattore instead of Hattorf and indead i found something:
 
Searching Hattore at ancestry.com you will find in the New York Petitions  
for Naturalisation 
 
Frederick A Vn hattore the date is Oct 1849. looking the original you see  
bright and clear
 
Von Hattorf Frederick A.
 
The hell knows why he is using "von" Hattorf. I dont believe he is from the  
noble line, but it shows me that he is realy from that old Hattorf family so i 
 have no longer doubts in his identity and there was only one Hattorf living  
there in that time in the 1850 census you will find him with his family in  
NY.
 
And you are right the distant cousins are sometimes the better ones. I have  
one his ggmother was a Hattorff and if HE was living near NY (he is living 
near  Chicago) i would have the results for Frederick A. tonight!!!!!!!
 
And the reason why i was NOT beginning with the children of Frederick  A.  I 
didnt know anything about the family in the USA. I had only a name  Frederick 
A. Hattorf without any connection to the other Hattorf names i found  at 
ancestry. It was me who put the puzzle together ....... Hope tho find his  
Grandfather so i can connect him to the family tree....
 
My best Armin

[HN] ritterbusch/ridderbusch

Date: 2006/02/11 11:54:26
From: w.a. ridderbos <w.a.ridderbos(a)xs4all.nl>

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,

Wer ist: Frau von Joachim Ritterbusch, gestorben Hannover 29-11-1743 ?

Wer ist: Anna Ritterbusch-Winecke, gestorben Oesdorf 13-5-1684 ?

Wer ist: Caroline Wilhelmine Ritterbusch, gestorben Oesdorf 2-3-1797 ?

Mit freundlichem Gruss,
W.A.Ridderbos aus die Niederlande.

[HN] Fragen

Date: 2006/02/11 12:22:37
From: w.a. ridderbos <w.a.ridderbos(a)xs4all.nl>

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,

Wer ist: Frau Schwensche, gestorben Gellersen 15-6-1696 ?

Wer ist: Anna Catrine Nageln, gestorben Ottenstein 10-11-1761 ?

Wer ist: Sophie Dorothee Schüssler, gestorben Aerzen 1-3-1818 ?

Wer ist: Henriette Müller, gestorben Holzhausen 12-6-1864 ?

Wer ist: Engel Justine Margarethe Bekemeyer, gestorben Kirchohsen 8-8-1840 ?

Wer ist: Anna Catharina Brackhan, gestorben Kirchohsen 22-12-1761 ?

Mit freundlichem Gruss aus die Niederlande,
W.A.Ridderbos.

Re: [HN] Ottenstein

Date: 2006/02/11 13:07:12
From: Björn Sassenberg <post(a)bjoern-sassenberg.de>

Dear Don, dear list,

although my family is not living in America, I want to tell you, that also my wife has ancestors
from Ottenstein:

1. Dorothea Louise Caroline DÜE She was the daughter of 2. Georg DÜE and 3. Dorothee MEIER. She
married (1) Heinrich Conrad Anton MEIER, Kleinköter and Leinenweber (small farmer and linen weaver),
23 Nov 1834 in Ottenstein. He was the son of Heinrich MEIER and Louise KELLERMEIER.
2. Georg DÜE, Schuhmachermeister (shoemaker master). He married 3. Dorothee MEIER.
3. Dorothee MEIER

This line isn't well researched, yet, but I hope to find more ancestors some day.

I have heard, that there exist two books about Ottenstein, although I do not know their names.

If anybody has got more information about Ottenstein, the mentioned books or the above named
families I would appreciate your answer.

With kindly regards from Langenhagen, Germany,

Björn


----- Original Message ----- From: "Don E. Schaefer" <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:52 PM
Subject: [HN] Ottenstein and Hemeringen


Hannover List --

I have had good luck finding connections back in Germany because of
some good notes a relative made while visiting there in 1931.  My
great-grandfather, George William Schaefer, came from Ottenstein in
1856.  That is the Ottenstein that is upstream from Hameln on the
Weser River, on the Ottenstein plateau on the west side of the Weser.
We have visited there twice and have close contact with relatives in
Ottenstein and Hannover.

I would be interested in learning about others in America who have
ties with Ottenstein.

Also, my great-grandmother, Caroline Wilkening, came from Hemeringen.
It is closer to Hameln, a little west and north.  I have not been
able to locate any relatives there.  One was located in another part
of Germany, but he never answered my letters.

Later I will tell about all the good assistance I received from
Jürgen Ritter at the Genealogical Society in Hannover.  It is a long
story.  He was such a great help!

Don Schaefer
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Ottenstein

Date: 2006/02/11 16:41:42
From: Don E. Schaefer <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>

Hallo Björn and list --

Good to hear from someone who knows about Ottenstein.

My great-grandfather was one of three brothers from the Schäfer
family in Ottenstein to come to America.  The oldest brother,
Friedrich, stayed in Ottenstein and was later disinherited by his
parents.  His mother-in-law was Caroline Wilhelmine Justine Meier.
That is the only Meier I have in my records.  There are church books
in the pastor's office in Ottenstein.

The two books on Ottenstein are "Chronik von Ottenstein und Glesse"
by Kantor Heinrich Rose (1927), and "Ottensteiner Chronik" by Werner
Freist (1986).  I have a copy of the newer one.  It is well done and
masterfully illustrated by Freist.  My problem is that I do not read
German, except for a few words.

Don Schaefer


Dear Don, dear list,

although my family is not living in America, I want to tell you,
that also my wife has ancestors
from Ottenstein:

1. Dorothea Louise Caroline DÜE She was the daughter of 2. Georg DÜE
and 3. Dorothee MEIER. She
married (1) Heinrich Conrad Anton MEIER, Kleinköter and Leinenweber
(small farmer and linen weaver),
23 Nov 1834 in Ottenstein. He was the son of Heinrich MEIER and
Louise KELLERMEIER.
2. Georg DÜE, Schuhmachermeister (shoemaker master). He married 3.
Dorothee MEIER.
3. Dorothee MEIER

This line isn't well researched, yet, but I hope to find more
ancestors some day.

I have heard, that there exist two books about Ottenstein, although
I do not know their names.

If anybody has got more information about Ottenstein, the mentioned
books or the above named
families I would appreciate your answer.

With kindly regards from Langenhagen, Germany,

Björn


----- Original Message ----- From: "Don E. Schaefer" <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:52 PM
Subject: [HN] Ottenstein and Hemeringen


Hannover List --

I have had good luck finding connections back in Germany because of
some good notes a relative made while visiting there in 1931.  My
great-grandfather, George William Schaefer, came from Ottenstein in
1856.  That is the Ottenstein that is upstream from Hameln on the
Weser River, on the Ottenstein plateau on the west side of the Weser.
We have visited there twice and have close contact with relatives in
Ottenstein and Hannover.

I would be interested in learning about others in America who have
ties with Ottenstein.

Also, my great-grandmother, Caroline Wilkening, came from Hemeringen.
It is closer to Hameln, a little west and north.  I have not been
able to locate any relatives there.  One was located in another part
of Germany, but he never answered my letters.

Later I will tell about all the good assistance I received from
Jürgen Ritter at the Genealogical Society in Hannover.  It is a long
story.  He was such a great help!

Don Schaefer
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Historical Maps

Date: 2006/02/11 17:22:56
From: Carol Payne <snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net>

Thank you Brigitte!  I will also add this site to my "favorites" - and hope
I can find it when I need it ;-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BrigitteJahnke(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 12:19 AM
Subject: [HN] Historical Maps


> If you are looking for some good historical maps of Germany:
>
> _http://www.hoeckmann.de/_ (http://www.hoeckmann.de/)
>
> Good luck!
>
> Brigitte Jahnke
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>



[HN] Fundstück. SCHRÖDER, Gödestorf

Date: 2006/02/11 17:46:06
From: Waltraud von Salzen <waltraud.von.salzen(a)ewetel.net>

Ein weiteres Fundstück:

ALBERT SCHRÖDER von Gödestorf, Amt SYKE  oo  01.Okt.1699  BEKE STÖFERS,
seel.Harmen Stöfers zu Wulmstorf nachgelassene Wittwe

Gruß
Waltraud



[HN] Fundstück: FEDELER von STELLE

Date: 2006/02/11 17:47:49
From: Waltraud von Salzen <waltraud.von.salzen(a)ewetel.net>

Hier ein neues Fundstück aus dem KB Lunsen

JOHANN FEDELER von Stelle im Ksp.Twistringen heiratet am 21.Mai 1702 SOPHIE
DOROTHEE SCHUMACHER aus Thedinghausen.

Schönes Wochenende
Waltraud



[HN] Georg Ludwig Röperhoff

Date: 2006/02/11 19:35:05
From: Georg Friederici <georgfriederici(a)manquehue.net>

Suche die Eltern von 
********************************************* 
Georg  Ludwig  Röperhoff
* 19.12.1790 in Bremerlehe (Hannover),
+ 11.09.1855 in Paramaribo, Suriname
Schiffskapitän nach Westindien
**********************************************
Jeder Hinweis ist von Interesse.
Herzliche Grüsse aus Santiago de Chile
Georg Friederici 
**********************************************

Re: [HN] Ottenstein

Date: 2006/02/11 20:59:08
From: Björn Sassenberg <post(a)bjoern-sassenberg.de>

Dear Don,

thank you for your answer. Also thank you for the book-titles. I found the books in two libraries near to me, so I will be able to take a look at them in the next weeks. Let's see, whether we have identical ancestors.

So far, kindly regards,

Björn


----- Original Message ----- From: "Don E. Schaefer" <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] Ottenstein


Hallo Björn and list --

Good to hear from someone who knows about Ottenstein.

My great-grandfather was one of three brothers from the Schäfer
family in Ottenstein to come to America.  The oldest brother,
Friedrich, stayed in Ottenstein and was later disinherited by his
parents.  His mother-in-law was Caroline Wilhelmine Justine Meier.
That is the only Meier I have in my records.  There are church books
in the pastor's office in Ottenstein.

The two books on Ottenstein are "Chronik von Ottenstein und Glesse"
by Kantor Heinrich Rose (1927), and "Ottensteiner Chronik" by Werner
Freist (1986).  I have a copy of the newer one.  It is well done and
masterfully illustrated by Freist.  My problem is that I do not read
German, except for a few words.

Don Schaefer


Dear Don, dear list,

although my family is not living in America, I want to tell you, that also my wife has ancestors
from Ottenstein:

1. Dorothea Louise Caroline DÜE She was the daughter of 2. Georg DÜE and 3. Dorothee MEIER. She
married (1) Heinrich Conrad Anton MEIER, Kleinköter and Leinenweber (small farmer and linen weaver),
23 Nov 1834 in Ottenstein. He was the son of Heinrich MEIER and Louise KELLERMEIER.
2. Georg DÜE, Schuhmachermeister (shoemaker master). He married 3. Dorothee MEIER.
3. Dorothee MEIER

This line isn't well researched, yet, but I hope to find more ancestors some day.

I have heard, that there exist two books about Ottenstein, although I do not know their names.

If anybody has got more information about Ottenstein, the mentioned books or the above named
families I would appreciate your answer.

With kindly regards from Langenhagen, Germany,

Björn


----- Original Message ----- From: "Don E. Schaefer" <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:52 PM
Subject: [HN] Ottenstein and Hemeringen


Hannover List --

I have had good luck finding connections back in Germany because of
some good notes a relative made while visiting there in 1931.  My
great-grandfather, George William Schaefer, came from Ottenstein in
1856.  That is the Ottenstein that is upstream from Hameln on the
Weser River, on the Ottenstein plateau on the west side of the Weser.
We have visited there twice and have close contact with relatives in
Ottenstein and Hannover.

I would be interested in learning about others in America who have
ties with Ottenstein.

Also, my great-grandmother, Caroline Wilkening, came from Hemeringen.
It is closer to Hameln, a little west and north.  I have not been
able to locate any relatives there.  One was located in another part
of Germany, but he never answered my letters.

Later I will tell about all the good assistance I received from
Jürgen Ritter at the Genealogical Society in Hannover.  It is a long
story.  He was such a great help!

Don Schaefer
______________________________________________


RE: [HN] Re: Frederick A. Hattorf

Date: 2006/02/11 22:46:31
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Armin Hattorf wrote:

Yes but all 3 Hattorf familys in the USA are related and didn't know that or feel only distant related, cause those in the North do not want to be related to those in the South:-)))))))))

Yes, yes .. old wounds die hard. lol ;) I have family lines on both sides of the great American Civil War, including a slave owning family from Tennessee and another pro-Union branch from Illinois. So it's quite easy for me to sit on the fence from a safe distance and be neutrally amused (just don't mention Sherman to one side, or Booth to the other). ;)

And i had some luck with the family tree of the old Hattorfs. In 1960 you find in the Heimatblätter für den süd-westlichen Harzrand (little booklets) the chronic of the Hattorf family in Osterode. Later revised in 1980 cause in 1960 they have forgotten in the head of the tree a brother! what is horrible for a tree.

Oh we would never make such omissions as Yanks. Never. LOL :-)

So we had the name Valentin Hattorf born 1511, but later i had some more luck.

Fantastic. If you could trace your lines back that far in America, it's a shoo-in you would have Indian blood (or else connections to the wonderful name Columbo).

There was a genealogist in the USA C. Frederick Kaufholz living in CT his family is from Duderstadt and he is related "around 3 corners like we say" with Hattorf. And he published the family tree of Wernher von Braun your "rocketspezialist" and in position 2500 and somewhat you find in 1420 Hildebrand Hattorf (Hattorp) and his son Heine and his son Hans and his son Valentin, so thank you Mr. von Braun that you had the money to do such intensive researches......

That we should all be so lucky indeed. How interesting this turn of events, and the sideways connection to one of the fathers of rocket science (not forgetting Oberth, Tsiolkovsky, and Goddard of course).

But they didnt know anything about the Bremen part of the 18th century. Even my father never found out that there was a Hattorf family in the States. I was beginning 3 years ago and i found in the net the name Hermann Hattorff in Bremen and i was beginning researches .... and then i found the family of my cousin in NY. It took me two years to find his GGGfather here in Germany, it was very very difficult.

Very very difficult you say ... where have I heard such sentiments before? Heartening to know it is not just we, as emigrant children, who face such struggles in stitching together the pieces of our past. Though clearly a universal phenomenon, it is a treasure hunt only the modern age has made freely available to pursue (our forbears had far headier things on their minds, beginning with survival).

My cousins in America got a complete family tree in only 2 years with all names from F.A. to the living persons the same procedure in NY. from Johann Hermann to the today living people.

They are the very lucky and blessed recipients of such a windfall then. If there are Schmidts or Schulzes to be found in the mix, send me my copy! lol :-)

Ok back to Frederick A. or Friedrich August. The hardest misspeling was Thomas E. Fattore instead of Thomas E. Hattorf.

Yes, and not uncommon when it comes to indexing productions. Hard as the transcribers try, there will always be a percentage of errors interpreting the handwritten originals (beyond misspellings IN the originals). Add on top of that the transcription-to-database transfers, and you have double the trouble. And thus the a Hattorf can become a Fattore. In the days of the earlier accelerated indexes, I recall always hammering hard to overcome these limitations. A Suttenfield might be found under Luttenfield or Tuttenfield (forget the simple vowel anomalies we all know and love), and on and on it went. You learned to become quite imaginative when exploring those older style index productions, or there was going to be far less "pay dirt" at the end of the day. This many years hence, many of these same stumbling blocks still apply with the latest projects. It behooves one and all to TRY ALL REASONABLE NAME VARIABLES when searching ANY index. Many of those "missing" folks that can't be found are in reality "miscategorized" (though others will remain truly non-existent).

The hell knows why he is using "von" Hattorf. I dont believe he is from the noble line, but it shows me that he is realy from that old Hattorf family so i have no longer doubts in his identity and there was only one Hattorf living there in that time in the 1850 census you will find him with his family in NY.

Most interesting. Adds a little spice to the mix if nothing else. I have a von Haake line out of Hamelm / Hannover that often makes me wonder (or whistle). Only ours is supposed to be connected to a Baron [!] (though in fairness, we do have a few old German letters which suggest there could be something to it). Go figure. [=> read it and weep Rena :-)]

And you are right the distant cousins are sometimes the better ones. I have one his ggmother was a Hattorff and if HE was living near NY (he is living near Chicago) i would have the results for Frederick A. tonight!!!!!!!

How true, everywhere! It's a universal conundrum!

And the reason why i was NOT beginning with the children of Frederick A. I didnt know anything about the family in the USA. I had only a name Frederick A. Hattorf without any connection to the other Hattorf names i found at ancestry. It was me who put the puzzle together ....... Hope to find his Grandfather so i can connect him to the family tree....

Understood. You have done a remarkable job so far bringing together this wide range of bits and pieces, and just about everything you have relayed suggests you are on the right track. I think it is only a matter of time before you have #1 linked to #2 and #3. Your fluent command of English no doubt helps in this endeavor. Interesting that we think of the Germans and French (and perhaps English as a noteworthy third) as being the great record keepers of the world. You truly would have to add the Americans to that mix. Though the history of this country does not date back all that far by comparison to mother Europe, since its beginning, record officiating and preservation has been quite laudable. It allows anyone searching for American connections - from within or abroad - a wide range of possibilities and avenues to explore. Of course we are also the lucky beneficiaries of not having too many bombs dropped on our heads either (except mostly our own).

Nowadays you can add to that mix the evolution of the transistor and microchip, the foundation (and enablers) of the PCs and servers and Internet we all cherish. It's a marvel at how far we have come so quickly, and how much easier these pursuits are today as opposed to just 20 or 30 years ago. The fact that we are having this wonderful exchange is proof of that.

Much continued success my friend. Perhaps you will keep the list informed as to your progress or any new breakthroughs you effect. The success of others, born of hard work, reminds all who struggle that sunshine does indeed follow rain. But it is those little rainbows, in all their glory, that announce the news from the heavens.

Bests from sunny SoCal. Jb

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


Re: [HN] Ottenstein

Date: 2006/02/11 22:52:52
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

No connections here Don, but I would be interested to read of the hand you received from Herr Ritter and the Gen Society. As you have time of course ...

Wishing you and Björn a successful link!

Jb

Don Schaefer wrote:

Later I will tell about all the good assistance I received from Jürgen Ritter at the Genealogical Society in Hannover. It is a long story. He was such a great help!

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


Re: [HN] Ottenstein

Date: 2006/02/12 00:19:26
From: Don E. Schaefer <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>

Here is my story from the beginning about how I made rapid progress
with my German ancestors.  Late in 1987, I became interested in my
family history.  Like most of us, it was after most everyone had died
who knew anything to help.  I dug out some notes that I copied in
1956 from my aunt in Kansas.  They told the names of my
great-grandfather and his two brothers, along with their siblings'
and parents' names.  It also said they came from Ottenstein, über
Hameln.  In addition, it said my great-grandmother, Caroline
Wilkening, came from Hemeringen.  I looked up the locations on old
U.S. Army maps in the University library here, and then referred to a
German Atlas.  In the book, "In Search of Your German Roots" by Angus
Baxter in the local library, I saw that one place to write in Germany
was the Genealogical Society in the state where your ancestors lived.
I knew it was Lower Saxony, so I wrote there.

Within a few weeks I received a letter from Jürgen Ritter.  With the
information I sent him, he called a Schäfer in the phone book of
Ottenstein, and luckily it was Hermann Schäfer, who lived in the old
Schäfer house from which my great-grandfather left in 1856.  He said,
yes, he knew of three brothers who went to America in the middle of
the last century.  Herr Ritter also said he phoned the pastor of the
church in Hemeringen, where he learned the names of Caroline's
parents.  He already had other information that linked to the
Wilkening family there, because his own ancestors are linked to mine
there.  His grandparents had lived in Hemeringen.

(Let me insert here that Jürgen Ritter has specialized in taking the
various church books in many locations and linking the names into
families.  He has published these and I have been in his home office
in Hannover and seen some of them.  He had done the church in
Hemeringen because of his personal interest there, but he was
concentrating on garrison churches.  He told me that he had visited
the Mormon Library in Salt Lake City, and they had his books there.)

A sort while after I heard from Herr Ritter, I received a letter,
with photo, from Hermann Schäfer in Ottenstein.  It was one of my
thrilling moments in family history.

Through Herr Ritter, I employed Horst Giesemann to go to Ottenstein
and copy information from the church books.  The cost was quite
minimal and he also discovered a tie-in he had with my
g-g-grandmother, whose maiden name was Giesemann.

We took our very first tour in Europe in July of 1988.  We had a
nephew there in the Army and arrived two days before our tour and he
drove us to Ottenstein.  It was another thrilling time.  But Herr
Ritter's help was just starting.  He and his wife were there at the
Schäfer house and interpreted for us.  They had driven there from
Hannover.

We continued to correspond with both Herr Ritter and the Schäfers.  A
few years later the Ritters visited us in our home in Fayetteville,
Arkansas.  Jürgen's wife, Bona, died in 1993.  In 1996 we visited
Germany again and arrived in Hannover by train from Berlin.  We were
met by Herr Ritter and several of my relatives who live in Hannover.
He drove us to Hildesheim and Goslar and many sights in the area.  He
then drove us to Ottenstein where we spent four nights in the Schäfer
house and I met other third cousins living there.  We also went to
the church office in Ottenstein and Herr Ritter found out more
information from those books than most people are able to read and
understand.  We saw many places in that beautiful area that are
missed by most American tourists.  He also drove us by Hemeringen on
the way there.  As we left Hannover to go to Frankfurt and back home,
Herr Ritter would not let me pay him anything for all his help and
assistance.  He also had prepared new family information that he had
typed up from notes he took in the church office.

Jürgen Ritter died 12 Aug 1998, just a month before he and his
friend, Ruth Meyer, were going to come visit us.

This past school year our oldest daughter and her family hosted a
German exchange student who just happens to be related.  The boy is
the grandson of Heinrich Schäfer, an older brother of Hermann's.  The
boy's name is Thies Filler and his mother is Dr. Andrea Schäfer
Filler of Hannover.  Andrea and her brother, Uwe Schäfer of
Ottenstein, came to visit us here last June and then they accompanied
Thies home.  Now we have more generations that are strongly linked.

This would probably not been possible without the generous help of
Jürgen Ritter,  We really feel indebted to him and others like him
who are willing to help link families together.

Now, that's my long story.  And I left out a lot.

Don Schaefer


No connections here Don, but I would be interested to read of the
hand you received from Herr Ritter and the Gen Society. As you have
time of course ...

Wishing you and Björn a successful link!

Jb

Don Schaefer wrote:

Later I will tell about all the good assistance I received from
Jürgen Ritter at the Genealogical Society in Hannover.  It is a
long story.  He was such a great help!

Re: [HN] Ottenstein and Jürgen Ritter

Date: 2006/02/12 03:57:23
From: Neil Heimsoth <heimat(a)iland.net>

Don,
Really enjoyed reading your remembrances of Jürgen Ritter.  We had the
opportunity to visit with him on his last trip to America.  He came to our
part of Missouri and visited with friends here in Cole Camp and Stover.  He
presented my family with our entire Kipp family tree (from
Welsede/Hamelschenburg), going back 7 generations in Germany.  What a great
individual.
Neil Heimsoth
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don E. Schaefer" <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] Ottenstein


Here is my story from the beginning about how I made rapid progress
with my German ancestors.  Late in 1987, I became interested in my
family history.  Like most of us, it was after most everyone had died
who knew anything to help.  I dug out some notes that I copied in
1956 from my aunt in Kansas.  They told the names of my
great-grandfather and his two brothers, along with their siblings'
and parents' names.  It also said they came from Ottenstein, über
Hameln.  In addition, it said my great-grandmother, Caroline
Wilkening, came from Hemeringen.  I looked up the locations on old
U.S. Army maps in the University library here, and then referred to a
German Atlas.  In the book, "In Search of Your German Roots" by Angus
Baxter in the local library, I saw that one place to write in Germany
was the Genealogical Society in the state where your ancestors lived.
I knew it was Lower Saxony, so I wrote there.

Within a few weeks I received a letter from Jürgen Ritter.  With the
information I sent him, he called a Schäfer in the phone book of
Ottenstein, and luckily it was Hermann Schäfer, who lived in the old
Schäfer house from which my great-grandfather left in 1856.  He said,
yes, he knew of three brothers who went to America in the middle of
the last century.  Herr Ritter also said he phoned the pastor of the
church in Hemeringen, where he learned the names of Caroline's
parents.  He already had other information that linked to the
Wilkening family there, because his own ancestors are linked to mine
there.  His grandparents had lived in Hemeringen.

(Let me insert here that Jürgen Ritter has specialized in taking the
various church books in many locations and linking the names into
families.  He has published these and I have been in his home office
in Hannover and seen some of them.  He had done the church in
Hemeringen because of his personal interest there, but he was
concentrating on garrison churches.  He told me that he had visited
the Mormon Library in Salt Lake City, and they had his books there.)

A sort while after I heard from Herr Ritter, I received a letter,
with photo, from Hermann Schäfer in Ottenstein.  It was one of my
thrilling moments in family history.

Through Herr Ritter, I employed Horst Giesemann to go to Ottenstein
and copy information from the church books.  The cost was quite
minimal and he also discovered a tie-in he had with my
g-g-grandmother, whose maiden name was Giesemann.

We took our very first tour in Europe in July of 1988.  We had a
nephew there in the Army and arrived two days before our tour and he
drove us to Ottenstein.  It was another thrilling time.  But Herr
Ritter's help was just starting.  He and his wife were there at the
Schäfer house and interpreted for us.  They had driven there from
Hannover.

We continued to correspond with both Herr Ritter and the Schäfers.  A
few years later the Ritters visited us in our home in Fayetteville,
Arkansas.  Jürgen's wife, Bona, died in 1993.  In 1996 we visited
Germany again and arrived in Hannover by train from Berlin.  We were
met by Herr Ritter and several of my relatives who live in Hannover.
He drove us to Hildesheim and Goslar and many sights in the area.  He
then drove us to Ottenstein where we spent four nights in the Schäfer
house and I met other third cousins living there.  We also went to
the church office in Ottenstein and Herr Ritter found out more
information from those books than most people are able to read and
understand.  We saw many places in that beautiful area that are
missed by most American tourists.  He also drove us by Hemeringen on
the way there.  As we left Hannover to go to Frankfurt and back home,
Herr Ritter would not let me pay him anything for all his help and
assistance.  He also had prepared new family information that he had
typed up from notes he took in the church office.

Jürgen Ritter died 12 Aug 1998, just a month before he and his
friend, Ruth Meyer, were going to come visit us.

This past school year our oldest daughter and her family hosted a
German exchange student who just happens to be related.  The boy is
the grandson of Heinrich Schäfer, an older brother of Hermann's.  The
boy's name is Thies Filler and his mother is Dr. Andrea Schäfer
Filler of Hannover.  Andrea and her brother, Uwe Schäfer of
Ottenstein, came to visit us here last June and then they accompanied
Thies home.  Now we have more generations that are strongly linked.

This would probably not been possible without the generous help of
Jürgen Ritter,  We really feel indebted to him and others like him
who are willing to help link families together.

Now, that's my long story.  And I left out a lot.

Don Schaefer


>No connections here Don, but I would be interested to read of the
>hand you received from Herr Ritter and the Gen Society. As you have
>time of course ...
>
>Wishing you and Björn a successful link!
>
>Jb
>
>Don Schaefer wrote:
>
>>Later I will tell about all the good assistance I received from
>>Jürgen Ritter at the Genealogical Society in Hannover.  It is a
>>long story.  He was such a great help!
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Ottenstein and Jrgen Ritter

Date: 2006/02/12 08:12:35
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Marvelous story Don, from beginning to end. It's hard not to be touched by your account. That is a bonafide winning connection if I ever read one. Yet I am fully aware that a good number of similar accounts exist, in varying shades and colors. Here I go again, but that we should all be so lucky (like you and now Neil). Maybe someday. :-)

Those early notes you were sharp enough to copy down back in the fifties proved to be instrumental in the end. More important than many new to this pastime might suspect, the OLD TIMERS must be interviewed before they leave the scene. How often this overlooked, even when they are still amongst us! Not that anyone guilty of this oversight need feel that bad should it be too late now, as it is an all too common occurrence - today as in years gone by. 

In the book, "In Search of Your German Roots" by Angus Baxter in the local library, I saw that one place to write in Germany was the Genealogical Society in the state where your ancestors lived. I knew it was Lower Saxony, so I wrote there.

I must say, you were lucky in one regard: you got a jump on the "Internet era" in compiling a good portion of your family history, and then reaching out across the sea. We all know that the proliferation of so many new resources and raw data courtesy of the Internet has been a boon to those pursuing family histories, and this trend continues to show no signs of abating anytime soon. The downside of this is that stories like yours may become somewhat "endangered" as time rolls on, due to the massive influx of letters and requests being generated to the local parishes and genealogical guilds these days in Germany and elsewhere, which the Net greatly enables and even simplifies. The German archives alone are struggling to keep up with the volume, so it is any wonder that the smaller church offices and community centers are feeling inundated. Alas, for every bright cloud we see, there can be both gray and silver linings.

I started my own exploration in the early '70s, but didn't make all that much headway short of getting down the basics, writing some letters, acquiring a handful of vital stat records, and badgering the elders 'till they shooed me off. My interest rekindled in the early eighties with a few key breakthroughs and has basically remained to this day. Years back, and long before the better structured, database style index compilations we now take for granted started appearing, there remained the little championed, little visited works of the genealogical and historical societies (speaking now of here in the States). I contacted quite a number of them through the years, both in writing and in person. Most were (are) made up of elderly folks who are kind enough to pool their talents and energies towards the preservation of often neglected genealogical/historical treasures for the benefit of their local communities or cities. 

Many such organizations have since passed from the scene though, the victims of a lack of support and interest. Their collective efforts produced some of the earliest indexes, extracts and transcriptions that proved so valuable to genealogists and family historians years ago (beyond the larger indexing works of the WPA of the depression years, and the ever expanding collection of the LDS). It almost brings a tears to the eye to think how many of these marvelous works, compiled with loving attention, now sit rarely visited and capped with dust on the special collection shelves of many a city library, replaced by and large with the ubiquity and functional ease of the Internet.

If more folks today knew what we owe the fine souls of these volunteer societies, along with the local archivists who struggle to preserve materials that would otherwise be lost or discarded, and the unsung reference librarians who know - as few others do - the value of these and other rarely explored holdings they preside over, they would be the discoverers of a world of information every bit as eye opening as that which we see splashed across the Internet (not that I don't hug my Internet connection daily). To this day, most of this material has NOT yet made its way onto the Net (with occasional exceptions), and one has to wonder how much of it ever will.

This would probably not been possible without the generous help of Jürgen Ritter. We really feel indebted to him and others like him who are willing to help link families together.

Let me add my salutations to Herr Ritter. What a marvel and gentleman. Like the volunteer organizations I spoke of on this side, he fortunately lives on per his work at the Genealogisch Gesellschaft, and in the memories and family collections of his many beneficiaries.

Thanks for the share Don. I'll file it under unsung heroes. ;)

Jb

PS. Angus Baxter ... I have to smile. If you own a first-edition Baxter in your collection, you may date back to those lovely pick and shovel days! Another tell tale sign: how early an edition of Handy Book for Genealogists you own. lol :)


From: "Neil Heimsoth" <heimat(a)iland.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Ottenstein and Jürgen Ritter
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 21:09:08 -0600

Don,
Really enjoyed reading your remembrances of Jürgen Ritter.  We had the
opportunity to visit with him on his last trip to America.  He came to our
part of Missouri and visited with friends here in Cole Camp and Stover.  He
presented my family with our entire Kipp family tree (from
Welsede/Hamelschenburg), going back 7 generations in Germany.  What a great
individual.
Neil Heimsoth


From: "Don E. Schaefer" <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] Ottenstein

Here is my story from the beginning about how I made rapid progress
with my German ancestors.  Late in 1987, I became interested in my
family history.  Like most of us, it was after most everyone had died
who knew anything to help.  I dug out some notes that I copied in
1956 from my aunt in Kansas.  They told the names of my
great-grandfather and his two brothers, along with their siblings'
and parents' names.  It also said they came from Ottenstein, über
Hameln.  In addition, it said my great-grandmother, Caroline
Wilkening, came from Hemeringen.  I looked up the locations on old
U.S. Army maps in the University library here, and then referred to a
German Atlas.  In the book, "In Search of Your German Roots" by Angus
Baxter in the local library, I saw that one place to write in Germany
was the Genealogical Society in the state where your ancestors lived.
I knew it was Lower Saxony, so I wrote there.

Within a few weeks I received a letter from Jürgen Ritter.  With the
information I sent him, he called a Schäfer in the phone book of
Ottenstein, and luckily it was Hermann Schäfer, who lived in the old
Schäfer house from which my great-grandfather left in 1856.  He said,
yes, he knew of three brothers who went to America in the middle of
the last century.  Herr Ritter also said he phoned the pastor of the
church in Hemeringen, where he learned the names of Caroline's
parents.  He already had other information that linked to the
Wilkening family there, because his own ancestors are linked to mine
there.  His grandparents had lived in Hemeringen.

(Let me insert here that Jürgen Ritter has specialized in taking the
various church books in many locations and linking the names into
families.  He has published these and I have been in his home office
in Hannover and seen some of them.  He had done the church in
Hemeringen because of his personal interest there, but he was
concentrating on garrison churches.  He told me that he had visited
the Mormon Library in Salt Lake City, and they had his books there.)

A sort while after I heard from Herr Ritter, I received a letter,
with photo, from Hermann Schäfer in Ottenstein.  It was one of my
thrilling moments in family history.

Through Herr Ritter, I employed Horst Giesemann to go to Ottenstein
and copy information from the church books.  The cost was quite
minimal and he also discovered a tie-in he had with my
g-g-grandmother, whose maiden name was Giesemann.

We took our very first tour in Europe in July of 1988.  We had a
nephew there in the Army and arrived two days before our tour and he
drove us to Ottenstein.  It was another thrilling time.  But Herr
Ritter's help was just starting.  He and his wife were there at the
Schäfer house and interpreted for us.  They had driven there from
Hannover.

We continued to correspond with both Herr Ritter and the Schäfers.  A
few years later the Ritters visited us in our home in Fayetteville,
Arkansas.  Jürgen's wife, Bona, died in 1993.  In 1996 we visited
Germany again and arrived in Hannover by train from Berlin.  We were
met by Herr Ritter and several of my relatives who live in Hannover.
He drove us to Hildesheim and Goslar and many sights in the area.  He
then drove us to Ottenstein where we spent four nights in the Schäfer
house and I met other third cousins living there.  We also went to
the church office in Ottenstein and Herr Ritter found out more
information from those books than most people are able to read and
understand.  We saw many places in that beautiful area that are
missed by most American tourists.  He also drove us by Hemeringen on
the way there.  As we left Hannover to go to Frankfurt and back home,
Herr Ritter would not let me pay him anything for all his help and
assistance.  He also had prepared new family information that he had
typed up from notes he took in the church office.

Jürgen Ritter died 12 Aug 1998, just a month before he and his
friend, Ruth Meyer, were going to come visit us.

This past school year our oldest daughter and her family hosted a
German exchange student who just happens to be related.  The boy is
the grandson of Heinrich Schäfer, an older brother of Hermann's.  The
boy's name is Thies Filler and his mother is Dr. Andrea Schäfer
Filler of Hannover.  Andrea and her brother, Uwe Schäfer of
Ottenstein, came to visit us here last June and then they accompanied
Thies home.  Now we have more generations that are strongly linked.

This would probably not been possible without the generous help of
Jürgen Ritter,  We really feel indebted to him and others like him
who are willing to help link families together.

Now, that's my long story.  And I left out a lot.

Don Schaefer

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963


Re: [HN] Georg Ludwig Röperhoff

Date: 2006/02/12 13:11:59
From: Avspreckelsen <Avspreckelsen(a)aol.com>

Guten Tag, Georg,
 
bei Bremerlehe(Hannover) handelt es sich um den heutigen Stadtteil Lehe der  
Stadt Bremerhaven, nicht um den Stadtteil Horn-Lehe in Bremen.
 
In Lehe (also dem Stadtteil von Bremerhaven) ist 1787 ein Goldschmied  
Bernhard Heinrich Röperhoff nachgewiesen. Bei diesem nicht häufigen Namen liegt  die 
Vermutung nahe, dass der Kapitän Georg Ludwig R. mit dem Goldschmied R.  
verwandt war.
 
Noch einen schönen Sonntag
wünscht mit herzlichen Grüssen
Albin von Spreckelsen
 
Saludos a mi querida patria llena de sol veraniego desde Alemania cubierta  
de nieve.
Brigitte Ellwanger de von Spreckelsen

Re: [HN] Georg Ludwig Röperhoff

Date: 2006/02/12 13:33:38
From: Georg Friederici <georgfriederici(a)manquehue.net>

Hallo Brigitte und Albin,
recht herzlichen Dank für diesen Hinweis zu Röperhoff.
Herzliche Grüsse aus der 2.Heimat (30ºC)
Georg Friederici
******************************************
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Avspreckelsen(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Georg Ludwig Röperhoff


Guten Tag, Georg,

bei Bremerlehe(Hannover) handelt es sich um den heutigen Stadtteil Lehe der
Stadt Bremerhaven, nicht um den Stadtteil Horn-Lehe in Bremen.

In Lehe (also dem Stadtteil von Bremerhaven) ist 1787 ein Goldschmied
Bernhard Heinrich Röperhoff nachgewiesen. Bei diesem nicht häufigen Namen
liegt  die
Vermutung nahe, dass der Kapitän Georg Ludwig R. mit dem Goldschmied R.
verwandt war.

Noch einen schönen Sonntag
wünscht mit herzlichen Grüssen
Albin von Spreckelsen

Saludos a mi querida patria llena de sol veraniego desde Alemania cubierta
de nieve.
Brigitte Ellwanger de von Spreckelsen
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Ottenstein and Jürgen Ritter

Date: 2006/02/12 14:51:56
From: Neil Heimsoth <heimat(a)iland.net>

In addition to the great help of Jürgen Ritter, I must also mention Marie
Renken of Ostersode, who gave me the Renken family history, my paternal
grandmother's branch.  These two individuals gave me so much information,
that I will be eternally thankful that I had the good fortune to know both
of them.
Neil H.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Ottenstein and Jürgen Ritter


> Marvelous story Don, from beginning to end. It's hard not to be touched by
> your account. That is a bonafide winning connection if I ever read one.
Yet
> I am fully aware that a good number of similar accounts exist, in varying
> shades and colors. Here I go again, but that we should all be so lucky
(like
> you and now Neil). Maybe someday. :-)
>
> Those early notes you were sharp enough to copy down back in the fifties
> proved to be instrumental in the end. More important than many new to this
> pastime might suspect, the OLD TIMERS must be interviewed before they
leave
> the scene. How often this overlooked, even when they are still amongst us!
> Not that anyone guilty of this oversight need feel that bad should it be
too
> late now, as it is an all too common occurrence - today as in years gone
> by.
>
> >In the book, "In Search of Your German Roots" by Angus Baxter in the
local
> >library, I saw that one place to write in Germany was the Genealogical
> >Society in the state where your ancestors lived. I knew it was Lower
> >Saxony, so I wrote there.
>
> I must say, you were lucky in one regard: you got a jump on the "Internet
> era" in compiling a good portion of your family history, and then reaching
> out across the sea. We all know that the proliferation of so many new
> resources and raw data courtesy of the Internet has been a boon to those
> pursuing family histories, and this trend continues to show no signs of
> abating anytime soon. The downside of this is that stories like yours may
> become somewhat "endangered" as time rolls on, due to the massive influx
of
> letters and requests being generated to the local parishes and
genealogical
> guilds these days in Germany and elsewhere, which the Net greatly enables
> and even simplifies. The German archives alone are struggling to keep up
> with the volume, so it is any wonder that the smaller church offices and
> community centers are feeling inundated. Alas, for every bright cloud we
> see, there can be both gray and silver linings.
>
> I started my own exploration in the early '70s, but didn't make all that
> much headway short of getting down the basics, writing some letters,
> acquiring a handful of vital stat records, and badgering the elders 'till
> they shooed me off. My interest rekindled in the early eighties with a few
> key breakthroughs and has basically remained to this day. Years back, and
> long before the better structured, database style index compilations we
now
> take for granted started appearing, there remained the little championed,
> little visited works of the genealogical and historical societies
(speaking
> now of here in the States). I contacted quite a number of them through the
> years, both in writing and in person. Most were (are)  made up of elderly
> folks who are kind enough to pool their talents and energies towards the
> preservation of often neglected genealogical/historical treasures for the
> benefit of their local communities or cities.
>
> Many such organizations have since passed from the scene though, the
victims
> of a lack of support and interest. Their collective efforts produced some
of
> the earliest indexes, extracts and transcriptions that proved so valuable
to
> genealogists and family historians years ago (beyond the larger indexing
> works of the WPA of the depression years, and the ever expanding
collection
> of the LDS). It almost brings a tears to the eye to think how many of
these
> marvelous works, compiled with loving attention, now sit rarely visited
and
> capped with dust on the special collection shelves of many a city library,
> replaced by and large with the ubiquity and functional ease of the
Internet.
>
> If more folks today knew what we owe the fine souls of these volunteer
> societies, along with the local archivists who struggle to preserve
> materials that would otherwise be lost or discarded, and the unsung
> reference librarians who know - as few others do - the value of these and
> other rarely explored holdings they preside over, they would be the
> discoverers of a world of information every bit as eye opening as that
which
> we see splashed across the Internet (not that I don't hug my Internet
> connection daily). To this day, most of this material has NOT yet made its
> way onto the Net (with occasional exceptions), and one has to wonder how
> much of it ever will.
>
> >This would probably not been possible without the generous help of Jürgen
> >Ritter.  We really feel indebted to him and others like him who are
willing
> >to help link families together.
>
> Let me add my salutations to Herr Ritter. What a marvel and gentleman.
Like
> the volunteer organizations I spoke of on this side, he fortunately lives
on
> per his work at the Genealogisch Gesellschaft, and in the memories and
> family collections of his many beneficiaries.
>
> Thanks for the share Don. I'll file it under unsung heroes. ;)
>
> Jb
>
> PS. Angus Baxter ... I have to smile. If you own a first-edition Baxter in
> your collection, you may date back to those lovely pick and shovel days!
> Another tell tale sign: how early an edition of Handy Book for
Genealogists
> you own. lol :)
>
>
> From: "Neil Heimsoth" <heimat(a)iland.net>
> To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Subject: Re: [HN] Ottenstein and Jürgen Ritter
> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 21:09:08 -0600
>
> >Don,
> >Really enjoyed reading your remembrances of Jürgen Ritter.  We had the
> >opportunity to visit with him on his last trip to America.  He came to
our
> >part of Missouri and visited with friends here in Cole Camp and Stover.
He
> >presented my family with our entire Kipp family tree (from
> >Welsede/Hamelschenburg), going back 7 generations in Germany.  What a
great
> >individual.
> >Neil Heimsoth
>
>
> From: "Don E. Schaefer" <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>
> To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 5:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [HN] Ottenstein
>
> >Here is my story from the beginning about how I made rapid progress
> >with my German ancestors.  Late in 1987, I became interested in my
> >family history.  Like most of us, it was after most everyone had died
> >who knew anything to help.  I dug out some notes that I copied in
> >1956 from my aunt in Kansas.  They told the names of my
> >great-grandfather and his two brothers, along with their siblings'
> >and parents' names.  It also said they came from Ottenstein, über
> >Hameln.  In addition, it said my great-grandmother, Caroline
> >Wilkening, came from Hemeringen.  I looked up the locations on old
> >U.S. Army maps in the University library here, and then referred to a
> >German Atlas.  In the book, "In Search of Your German Roots" by Angus
> >Baxter in the local library, I saw that one place to write in Germany
> >was the Genealogical Society in the state where your ancestors lived.
> >I knew it was Lower Saxony, so I wrote there.
> >
> >Within a few weeks I received a letter from Jürgen Ritter.  With the
> >information I sent him, he called a Schäfer in the phone book of
> >Ottenstein, and luckily it was Hermann Schäfer, who lived in the old
> >Schäfer house from which my great-grandfather left in 1856.  He said,
> >yes, he knew of three brothers who went to America in the middle of
> >the last century.  Herr Ritter also said he phoned the pastor of the
> >church in Hemeringen, where he learned the names of Caroline's
> >parents.  He already had other information that linked to the
> >Wilkening family there, because his own ancestors are linked to mine
> >there.  His grandparents had lived in Hemeringen.
> >
> >(Let me insert here that Jürgen Ritter has specialized in taking the
> >various church books in many locations and linking the names into
> >families.  He has published these and I have been in his home office
> >in Hannover and seen some of them.  He had done the church in
> >Hemeringen because of his personal interest there, but he was
> >concentrating on garrison churches.  He told me that he had visited
> >the Mormon Library in Salt Lake City, and they had his books there.)
> >
> >A sort while after I heard from Herr Ritter, I received a letter,
> >with photo, from Hermann Schäfer in Ottenstein.  It was one of my
> >thrilling moments in family history.
> >
> >Through Herr Ritter, I employed Horst Giesemann to go to Ottenstein
> >and copy information from the church books.  The cost was quite
> >minimal and he also discovered a tie-in he had with my
> >g-g-grandmother, whose maiden name was Giesemann.
> >
> >We took our very first tour in Europe in July of 1988.  We had a
> >nephew there in the Army and arrived two days before our tour and he
> >drove us to Ottenstein.  It was another thrilling time.  But Herr
> >Ritter's help was just starting.  He and his wife were there at the
> >Schäfer house and interpreted for us.  They had driven there from
> >Hannover.
> >
> >We continued to correspond with both Herr Ritter and the Schäfers.  A
> >few years later the Ritters visited us in our home in Fayetteville,
> >Arkansas.  Jürgen's wife, Bona, died in 1993.  In 1996 we visited
> >Germany again and arrived in Hannover by train from Berlin.  We were
> >met by Herr Ritter and several of my relatives who live in Hannover.
> >He drove us to Hildesheim and Goslar and many sights in the area.  He
> >then drove us to Ottenstein where we spent four nights in the Schäfer
> >house and I met other third cousins living there.  We also went to
> >the church office in Ottenstein and Herr Ritter found out more
> >information from those books than most people are able to read and
> >understand.  We saw many places in that beautiful area that are
> >missed by most American tourists.  He also drove us by Hemeringen on
> >the way there.  As we left Hannover to go to Frankfurt and back home,
> >Herr Ritter would not let me pay him anything for all his help and
> >assistance.  He also had prepared new family information that he had
> >typed up from notes he took in the church office.
> >
> >Jürgen Ritter died 12 Aug 1998, just a month before he and his
> >friend, Ruth Meyer, were going to come visit us.
> >
> >This past school year our oldest daughter and her family hosted a
> >German exchange student who just happens to be related.  The boy is
> >the grandson of Heinrich Schäfer, an older brother of Hermann's.  The
> >boy's name is Thies Filler and his mother is Dr. Andrea Schäfer
> >Filler of Hannover.  Andrea and her brother, Uwe Schäfer of
> >Ottenstein, came to visit us here last June and then they accompanied
> >Thies home.  Now we have more generations that are strongly linked.
> >
> >This would probably not been possible without the generous help of
> >Jürgen Ritter,  We really feel indebted to him and others like him
> >who are willing to help link families together.
> >
> >Now, that's my long story.  And I left out a lot.
> >
> >Don Schaefer
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
> Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>


[HN] Ottenstein

Date: 2006/02/12 16:23:57
From: Reinhard.Freytag(a)t-online.de <Reinhard.Freytag(a)t-online.de>

Da ich mich in der Genealogie Ottensteiner Familien gut
auskenne, biete ich hiermit meine Hilfe an. Rund 900
gespeciherte Personendatensätze Ottenstein.

Womit kann ich helfen?

Namen, Daten?
- 
In der Genealogie ist ein Schritt rückwärts ein Schritt
vorwärts

Schöne Grüsse aus unserer
Universitätsstadt Göttingen
Reinhard J. Freytag






Re: [HN] Ottenstein

Date: 2006/02/12 17:08:10
From: Björn Sassenberg <post(a)bjoern-sassenberg.de>

Hallo Reinhard,

ich glaube, Du hast meine Daten schon mal abgeglichen. Bisher habe ich in Ottenstein folgendes:

1. Dorothea Louise Caroline DÜE x 23 Nov 1834 in Ottenstein Heinrich Conrad Anton MEIER, Kleinköter und Leinenweber.
2. Georg DÜE, Schuhmachermeister x 3. Dorothee MEIER.

Wenn Du zum Namen DÜE oder MEIER aus Ottenstein etwas hast, wäre ich Dir für Deine Daten dankbar. Ich bin bemüht, in den nächsten Wochen diesen Familien näher auf den Grund zu gehen.

Viele Grüße aus Langenhagen,

Björn

PS: nächste Woche im Urlaub!


----- Original Message ----- From: <Reinhard.Freytag(a)t-online.de>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 4:22 PM
Subject: [HN] Ottenstein


Da ich mich in der Genealogie Ottensteiner Familien gut
auskenne, biete ich hiermit meine Hilfe an. Rund 900
gespeciherte Personendatensätze Ottenstein.

Womit kann ich helfen?

Namen, Daten?
-
In der Genealogie ist ein Schritt rückwärts ein Schritt
vorwärts

Schöne Grüsse aus unserer
Universitätsstadt Göttingen
Reinhard J. Freytag





______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] re: Hattorf

Date: 2006/02/12 20:16:43
From: Art Dohrman <art.dohrman(a)comcast.net>

Armin,

I found the following entry in an index of NYC death records: 


Surname

Given Name

Age

Month

Day

Year

Certificate
Number

County

Soundex


Hattorff 

Frederick 

56 y 

Sept 

11 

1910 

27980 

Manhattan 

H361 

Here's the link to the database:
http://www.italiangen.org/NYCDeathSearch.asp

 

If this person is connected to you, you can order the certificate online
from the NYC Municipal Archives:

http://www.nyc.gov/dorforms/deathcert.jsp

the currency transaction (Euros to US$) should be transparent to your credit
card, I think.

 

mfG

Art Dohrman

 


Re: [HN] Ottenstein and Herr Ritter

Date: 2006/02/12 22:29:08
From: Don E. Schaefer <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>

Hannover List --

Here is the rest of the story:

When Jürgen Ritter visited us here in Fayetteville, I showed him the
Baxter book from which I got the information to write to his
genealogical society in Hannover.  He looked at it and said, "They
have the wrong address." I said, "You got my letter, didn't you?"

I did not tell about how we happened to have those notes that gave
all the Schäfer information from Ottenstein.  My aunt in Salina,
Kansas, had copied them from a first cousin of her father (and my
grandfather).  This cousin was the youngest daughter of the younger
Schaefer brother who came to America.  This cousin and her husband, a
medical doctor, had been missionaries to China and Korea, starting in
1917.  They returned from the mission field in 1931 and came back
through Germany and visited in Ottenstein with her father's relatives
there.  This is when she collected the information about her father's
parents and siblings.

I did not know all the details above, till later.  Because I knew
that this cousin, Ruth Schaefer Ewers, must have collected other
valuable information, I sought to find her children.  I knew that
they had lived in Somerset, Kentucky, so I had a letter put in the
newspaper there, asking for the whereabouts of the Ewers children.  I
had their names.  Right away, I heard from a lady in Somerset who
said that Ruth Ewers was still living and was in Nashville, Tenn.,
where her son was a doctor.  I phoned him, and was lucky to get a
return call from a doctor!  When I asked about his mother, he said,
"Why don't you talk to her?"  He gave me her number and I called her.
I had a great conversation with a 95-year-old very sharp lady.  She
was very pleased to hear from a Schaefer relative and had lost
contact with them.  She said, "You have made me so happy today."
Every year thereafter we stopped to see her --- for seven more years.
She was 102 the last time we saw her and she had me read a remarkable
story that she had just written and submitted to Guidepost magazine.
Guidepost never published her article, an unusual story about a near
escape from death in China.  She died a few months later.  She always
had interesting stories to tell us every time my wife and I visited
her.  While in Ottenstein in 1931, she took a picture of the old
Schäfer haus with a box camera.  She said she only had one shot left
in her camera and prayed that it would turn out.  It was a great
picture!  I told her we should all pray like that when we wanted a
good picture.

Knowing Ruth Schaefer Ewers furnished many thrilling moments in my
family history search.

Don Schaefer

[HN] Re: Frederick in the death index

Date: 2006/02/13 15:12:18
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Hi Art
 
I thank you very much for your mail. Great where you found this Frederick.  
But this is not Frederick A. This is what i called in one of the last letters  
No. 3
 
Johann Friedrich Heinrich Hattorf born 15 Sept. 1854 in Bremen Germany. In  
the 1890 city directory NY you find him as John F. Hattorff he had a liquor  
store Busse & Hattorff.
 
Some precisions to Frederick A. and what i have about him:
 
Frederick A. Hattorff born in Oxbridge England about 1818, died Richmond  
Virginia :
 
 
1875,  January 14. F.A. HATTOFF, age 57, Hotel Keeper, born England, buried, 
Hollywood  Cemetery, Richmond. Died of pneumonia. Lot R 89 223. SG Headstone. 
(Hollywood  Cemetery Burial Register #2 1874-1891)  


He was cigar dealer, saloon keeper, manufacturer of bitter lemon and what  
else ...
In the last years of his life he had a beer garden in Richmond:  
Hattorf s  Gardens,corner Marshall and Morton Streets. 

In his "first life" he was living in New York and was married to a Julia  
N.N. from Germany.
 
1. son Frederick J(oseph) Hattorf born around 1843, no proof but no other  
Hattorffs in NY in this time last hint: City directory New Haven CT 1894!!! So i 
 would need his death date!
 
Frederick J. had one son Frederick A. (aha name of grandfather) born 1874  CT 
no exact date no date of death, this Frederick A disappears ... is last  time 
in the city directory in 1909 with a certain Mary L. Hattorff (his wife??)  
from 1910 only Mary L. (divorced or dead this is the question) couldnt find 
Mary  L as boarder in Arch Street 11 even this adress is in the city  
directory!!!!
 
2. son of F.A. born 1818 George Edward Hattorf born around 1845 died  1911
 
IF he is identical with the George Hattorf in the 1900  census he had 3 sons 
George August and Fredrick. Never found one of the last 3  persons no George 
born 1877, no August born 1879, no Fredrick born 1882 even i  tried it very 
hard.
 
So you see Fredericks enough.... But who knows you have found that  Frederick 
in the death index perhaps someday someone will find meanwhile  searching an 
index one of the other ones...
 
By the way my "distant related cousing not carrying any longer the name  
Hattorff" will order for me the 1855 Census NY from the LDS church. So i can  
perhaps see how many children F.A: and Julia really had.
 
My best to you all
 
Armin
 



 

[HN] Pauline Hattorff

Date: 2006/02/13 15:18:42
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Hi Art 
One thing under Frederick you see Pauline Hattorff this was the widow of  
Frederick
 
my best Armin

[HN] Kalkmann and Holtmann families

Date: 2006/02/13 17:51:48
From: Margot King <margot.king(a)ca.inter.net>

I am trying to get some information about my great-great-great grandparents Heinrich Kalkmann and Margretta Holtmann who emigrated from Hannover to St. Louis in 1856 and were married in St. Louis in 1857. Their ship sailed from Bremen and arrived in New York on Nov 17, 1856. Apart from the passenger list and the record of their marriage, the only hard information I have on them is an obituary card for Heinrich which says that he was born in Hessum Hannover on 9 May 1824 and died in Melrose Minnesota on 3 Jun 1895. The Holtmanns are a complete mystery to me. I would appreciate any help in locating more information about them.

Thank you.

Margot King
17 Woodside Avenue
Toronto ON M6P 1L6 Canada
Phone: (416) 604-3111
Fax: (416) 604-7883
email: margot.king(a)ca.inter.net


Re: [HN] Kalkmann and Holtmann families

Date: 2006/02/13 19:16:16
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

Hello Margot King,

on first sight, there is no place given today named "Hessum". A similar sounding place in Lower Saxony today is "Hessens", which is a part of "26384 Wilhelmshaven". There was given   in 1998 a "HOLTMANN, I., Ulmenstr. 29, 26384 Wilhelmshaven, Tel. 04421 36386".

Holtmann is no rare name, Kalkmann is it much more. The spread of both names is not centered in Lower-Saxony, but in the common region with North-Rhine-Westfalia. For example you find both names given to a certain amount in the town "Osnabrück". Osnabrück belongs to Lower-Saxony since 1823. So it might be perhaps wise to widen your research on this common region nearby the border to the Netherlands as also the spread of Holtmann is much more in the south-western parts of Lower saxony than in the North and East of former Kingdom of Hannover.

Perhaps someone else knows better and more advice.
Good luck in your research

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

...

"Margot King" <margot.king(a)ca.inter.net> schrieb:
> I am trying to get some information about my great-great-great 
> grandparents Heinrich Kalkmann and Margretta Holtmann who emigrated 
> from Hannover to St. Louis in 1856 and were married in St. Louis in 
> 1857. Their ship sailed from Bremen and arrived in New York on Nov 17, 
> 1856. Apart from the passenger list and the record of their marriage, 
> the only hard information I have on them is an obituary card for 
> Heinrich which says that he was born in Hessum Hannover on 9 May 1824  
> and died in Melrose Minnesota on 3 Jun 1895. The Holtmanns are a 
> complete mystery to me. I would appreciate any help in locating more 
> information about them.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Margot King
> 17 Woodside Avenue
> Toronto ON M6P 1L6 Canada
> Phone: (416) 604-3111
> Fax: (416) 604-7883
> email: margot.king(a)ca.inter.net
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 


Re: [HN] Kalkmann and Holtmann families

Date: 2006/02/14 00:05:34
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

HI Margot,
      A couple questions here--
       Did Heinrich and  Margretta emigrate on the same boat?

        You probably know all about the census--
       Are they the couple in Oak, Stearns Minnesota in the 1880 census?
They have dropped on the "n"  which is not usual.  They both are listed as
coming from Prussia in that census.
      In the 1870 census in Stearns Minnesota, they are listed as from
Hanover:
http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/mn/stearns/census/1870/pg075a.txt
      No new clues there.
      In the 1910 census Mille Lacs Mn, there is a family with the father
called Jerry Kalkmann and he says his parents came from Germany. No clues
there. 

     The name Kalkman(n) seems to be a common Dutch name and there is a town
in the Netherlands by the name of Hessum.  Probably doesn't matches this
family.  

      There is a tiny town in Germany called Hessen near Dardesheim, but it
was not in Hannover.  It is in Saxony-Anhalt, close to the border.

     Have you tried to get the original record of the marriage, or the
births of the children?  Sometimes, the town will be mentioned in that kind
of record.  Maybe Hessum is a tiny town, too small to be included in the
index of my trusty autoatlas.  Where???

   Were your people Catholic?  This is a interesting website which has many
people coming to St. Louis.  They are from the area called the Emsland which
is near the Dutch border along the Ems river. Most of the people were
Catholic from that area.  Look here - Kalkmann and Holtmann are listed.
     http://www.emslanders.com/

     Well, I don't know where the town of Hessum is. I hope someone can find
it.  Maybe it is spelled wrong?  I came across one in my English research --
the obit said the place of birth was Maw Gap and the town is really Mow Cop.
So you never know!

     Do a lot of Google searches with the surname and the town of Hessum or
Hessen or some such.

    Good luck,
    Barbara



on 2/13/06 9:51 AM, Margot King at margot.king(a)ca.inter.net wrote:

> I am trying to get some information about my great-great-great
> grandparents Heinrich Kalkmann and Margretta Holtmann who emigrated
> from Hannover to St. Louis in 1856 and were married in St. Louis in
> 1857. Their ship sailed from Bremen and arrived in New York on Nov 17,
> 1856. Apart from the passenger list and the record of their marriage,
> the only hard information I have on them is an obituary card for
> Heinrich which says that he was born in Hessum Hannover on 9 May 1824
> and died in Melrose Minnesota on 3 Jun 1895. The Holtmanns are a
> complete mystery to me. I would appreciate any help in locating more
> information about them.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Margot King
> 17 Woodside Avenue
> Toronto ON M6P 1L6 Canada
> Phone: (416) 604-3111
> Fax: (416) 604-7883
> email: margot.king(a)ca.inter.net
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Speckmann

Date: 2006/02/14 01:31:07
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Not sure if you have contacted these folks yet Barney (if so ignore this). The messages carry today's date though, and pertain to Niedersachsen. Can't hurt to check as they say.

Laurie's name and addy I recognize from a different mailing list. She's been at the game for some time now, but I'm not sure if I saw posts before from her re Speckmanns (could easily have missed them though, if that were the case).

Jb

----------

Message Board URL:

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2.1.1.1.2

Message Board Post:
Hi - my name is Monna Lienemann. I am hoping that your email is still the same. I have sent you a ged com file on the Speckmanns.

Please respond to grammymammy11(a)msn.com

----------

Message Board URL:

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2.1.1.1.3

Message Board Post:
Can you tell me wee your Speckmann family originate from. Please write directly to me at marilyn(a)mcoster.freeserve.co.uk

Kind regards Laurie

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


Re: [HN] Ottenstein and Herr Ritter

Date: 2006/02/14 01:45:13
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Enjoyed part two also Don. Ruth was the base of it all, and you and Juergen the catalyst and dynamic. Top notch story. ;)

Best regards, Jb


From: "Don E. Schaefer" <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Ottenstein and Herr Ritter
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 15:29:38 -0600

Hannover List --

Here is the rest of the story:

When Jürgen Ritter visited us here in Fayetteville, I showed him the
Baxter book from which I got the information to write to his
genealogical society in Hannover.  He looked at it and said, "They
have the wrong address." I said, "You got my letter, didn't you?"

I did not tell about how we happened to have those notes that gave
all the Schäfer information from Ottenstein.  My aunt in Salina,
Kansas, had copied them from a first cousin of her father (and my
grandfather).  This cousin was the youngest daughter of the younger
Schaefer brother who came to America.  This cousin and her husband, a
medical doctor, had been missionaries to China and Korea, starting in
1917.  They returned from the mission field in 1931 and came back
through Germany and visited in Ottenstein with her father's relatives
there.  This is when she collected the information about her father's
parents and siblings.

I did not know all the details above, till later.  Because I knew
that this cousin, Ruth Schaefer Ewers, must have collected other
valuable information, I sought to find her children.  I knew that
they had lived in Somerset, Kentucky, so I had a letter put in the
newspaper there, asking for the whereabouts of the Ewers children.  I
had their names.  Right away, I heard from a lady in Somerset who
said that Ruth Ewers was still living and was in Nashville, Tenn.,
where her son was a doctor.  I phoned him, and was lucky to get a
return call from a doctor!  When I asked about his mother, he said,
"Why don't you talk to her?"  He gave me her number and I called her.
I had a great conversation with a 95-year-old very sharp lady.  She
was very pleased to hear from a Schaefer relative and had lost
contact with them.  She said, "You have made me so happy today."
Every year thereafter we stopped to see her --- for seven more years.
She was 102 the last time we saw her and she had me read a remarkable
story that she had just written and submitted to Guidepost magazine.
Guidepost never published her article, an unusual story about a near
escape from death in China.  She died a few months later.  She always
had interesting stories to tell us every time my wife and I visited
her.  While in Ottenstein in 1931, she took a picture of the old
Schäfer haus with a box camera.  She said she only had one shot left
in her camera and prayed that it would turn out.  It was a great
picture!  I told her we should all pray like that when we wanted a
good picture.

Knowing Ruth Schaefer Ewers furnished many thrilling moments in my
family history search.

Don Schaefer

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


RE: [HN] RAHENKAMP family

Date: 2006/02/14 03:11:51
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

I would like to find more information on my great, great grandparents.

On the German end or stateside Carol, or both?

I believe Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP must have had siblings, and I also believe Adam and his wife, Maria, had other children before Anna Catharine Gertrud. However, I have been unable to confirm any siblings or other children.

Not sure how you are concluding that "must", except perhaps due to Adam and Maria's ages relative to Anna (or is it simply hopeful thinking?) ;) But if that were the case, it would suggest any additional children would have died before the couple departed German soil. And it goes without saying that if you track the family through the U.S. Federal censuses over the years (as you may already have), you will have a fair indicator if any other children were born stateside.

As for Adam having siblings, this of course will come to light once you determine his exact place of origin, and explore the corresponding records of that locale, however they may be constituted (hopefully filmed by LDS). Schledenhausen, Osnabruck district ... perhaps others will have more leads in regards to this locale. I would guess that's your main push at the moment.

If it is stateside, have you attempted to locate Adam, Maria and Anna's respective obituaries, since you have their dates of death? As you may know, some areas - other than generally the largest American cities - produced or allowed substantially more in depth newspaper accounts of deaths and funerals than other places. Always worth checking, and remember larger hubs often ran multiple newspapers concurrently, even 100 years ago (so check all if possible). How about Adam's will or probate record in Newark? Records of land deeds or title transfers sometimes shed light on possible family connections (as family relations often did the transacting amongst themselves at varying points). You ought to attempt to see if Adam had a small biographical sketch produced in any of the local histories of 19th century Newark also (or any area he may have lived at for some time). Long shot generally, but not an impossibility either.

I can see that you have made some fairly good headway so far though. It's filling in those final blanks that's always tough, especially if you happen to be removed a good distance from the location of your antecedents. It goes without saying that the tie-in to the German side remains the crown jewel, as well as the cause of many restless nights of pondering and teeth gnashing. Age old story, as many Americans with German/European backgrounds can attest. Fortunately you have Schledenhausen to work on!

Continued luck! Jb


From: "Carol Payne" <snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] RAHENKAMP family
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:58:21 -0600

Hello,

I would like to find more information on my great, great grandparents.

Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP

Born:  about 1820 in Kingdom of Hannover (probably in Schledenhausen,
Osnabruck district)

Parents: listed on Death Certificate as "Frederik and Maria Rahnkamp" - both
born in "Germany"

Immigrated to USA from Bremen via the ship George F. Patten, arriving in New
York on 3 October 1851.

He applied for U.S Citizenship on 18 November 1859 and was Naturalized on 14
April 1862.

Died: 18 September 1886 in Newark, New Jersey, USA
Buried in Woodland Cemetery, Newark, NJ, where he purchased a family lot on
19 October 1867.

His wife was Maria Elizabeth EBERHARDT, born about 1820 in Hannover,
Germany.  (Her parents were "Henry and Mary EBERHARDT", both born in
Germany.) Maria died in Newark, New Jersey, USA, on 28 November 1887 and is
buried with her husband in Woodland Cemetery in Newark.

Their daughter, Anna Catherine Gertrude (RAHENKAMP) Wegener, was born 15
August 1849 in Hannover, Germany.  Anna immigrated with her parents in 1851
when she was 2 years old.  A record found in the Schledehausen (Lutheran)
Church states Catharine Gertrud RAHENKAMP was Christened on 26 August 1849.

I believe Adam Heinrich RAHENKAMP must have had  siblings, and I also
believe Adam and his wife, Maria, had other children before Anna Catharine
Gertrud.  However, I have been unable to confirm any siblings or other
children.

I apologize for such a long posting, but I wanted to be sure to include all
the information currently known to me.

Any help in finding additional information on this family would be greatly
appreciated.

Regards,
Carol Payne in Oklahoma, USA
SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


[HN] Re: Kalkmann and Holtmann families

Date: 2006/02/14 06:06:34
From: Margot King <margot.king(a)ca.inter.net>

Dear Hans Peter and Barbara and the list in general:

I'm quite overwhelmed by your speedy responses. Heinrich Kalkmann and Margretta Holtmann did in fact emigrate on the same boat but whether they knew each other before they left Germany or only met on the ship I have no idea. I'll keep on slogging away at the puzzle but in the meantime, thank you very much for the good suggestions.

Margot
Margot King
17 Woodside Avenue
Toronto ON M6P 1L6 Canada
Email: margot.king(a)ca.inter.net
Phone: (416) 604-3111
http://www.peregrina.com

On Feb 13, 2006, at 9:11 PM, hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net wrote:

Message: 4
Date: 13 Feb 2006 17:11 GMT
From: 320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de
Subject: Re: [HN] Kalkmann and Holtmann families
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Message-ID: <1F8iEO-1MBiMK0(a)fwd26.sul.t-online.de>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset="US-ASCII"

Hello Margot King,

on first sight, there is no place given today named "Hessum". A similar sounding place in Lower Saxony today is "Hessens", which is a part of "26384 Wilhelmshaven". There was given in 1998 a "HOLTMANN, I., Ulmenstr. 29, 26384 Wilhelmshaven, Tel. 04421 36386".

Holtmann is no rare name, Kalkmann is it much more. The spread of both names is not centered in Lower-Saxony, but in the common region with North-Rhine-Westfalia. For example you find both names given to a certain amount in the town "Osnabrück". Osnabrück belongs to Lower-Saxony since 1823. So it might be perhaps wise to widen your research on this common region nearby the border to the Netherlands as also the spread of Holtmann is much more in the south-western parts of Lower saxony than in the North and East of former Kingdom of Hannover.

Perhaps someone else knows better and more advice.
Good luck in your research

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

...

"Margot King" <margot.king(a)ca.inter.net> schrieb:
I am trying to get some information about my great-great-great
grandparents Heinrich Kalkmann and Margretta Holtmann who emigrated
from Hannover to St. Louis in 1856 and were married in St. Louis in
1857. Their ship sailed from Bremen and arrived in New York on Nov 17,
1856. Apart from the passenger list and the record of their marriage,
the only hard information I have on them is an obituary card for
Heinrich which says that he was born in Hessum Hannover on 9 May 1824
and died in Melrose Minnesota on 3 Jun 1895. The Holtmanns are a
complete mystery to me. I would appreciate any help in locating more
information about them.

Thank you.

Margot King
17 Woodside Avenue
Toronto ON M6P 1L6 Canada
Phone: (416) 604-3111
Fax: (416) 604-7883
email: margot.king(a)ca.inter.net

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:05:17 -0700
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Kalkmann and Holtmann families
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Message-ID: <C0165EBD.6EA7%raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

HI Margot,
      A couple questions here--
       Did Heinrich and  Margretta emigrate on the same boat?

        You probably know all about the census--
Are they the couple in Oak, Stearns Minnesota in the 1880 census? They have dropped on the "n" which is not usual. They both are listed as
coming from Prussia in that census.
      In the 1870 census in Stearns Minnesota, they are listed as from
Hanover:
http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/mn/stearns/census/1870/pg075a.txt
      No new clues there.
In the 1910 census Mille Lacs Mn, there is a family with the father called Jerry Kalkmann and he says his parents came from Germany. No clues
there.

The name Kalkman(n) seems to be a common Dutch name and there is a town in the Netherlands by the name of Hessum. Probably doesn't matches this
family.

There is a tiny town in Germany called Hessen near Dardesheim, but it
was not in Hannover.  It is in Saxony-Anhalt, close to the border.

     Have you tried to get the original record of the marriage, or the
births of the children? Sometimes, the town will be mentioned in that kind of record. Maybe Hessum is a tiny town, too small to be included in the
index of my trusty autoatlas.  Where???

Were your people Catholic? This is a interesting website which has many people coming to St. Louis. They are from the area called the Emsland which
is near the Dutch border along the Ems river. Most of the people were
Catholic from that area.  Look here - Kalkmann and Holtmann are listed.
     http://www.emslanders.com/

Well, I don't know where the town of Hessum is. I hope someone can find it. Maybe it is spelled wrong? I came across one in my English research -- the obit said the place of birth was Maw Gap and the town is really Mow Cop.
So you never know!

Do a lot of Google searches with the surname and the town of Hessum or
Hessen or some such.

    Good luck,
    Barbara



Re: [HN] Re: Kalkmann and Holtmann families

Date: 2006/02/14 07:42:13
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Margot,
       If you haven't looked for Kalkman on the www.emslanders.com yet,
please do.  There is a Johan Heinrich Kalkman listed born in 1824. There is
a note that he is listed with Marg. Holtman on the ship in 1856.  Johann
Heinrich comes from the town of Herssum, parish Holte.  That has to be your
ancestor, doesn't it?  Herssum is north of Holte, which is northeast of
Haselünne and a little west of Löningen.  I think that's it!
Barbara



on 2/13/06 10:06 PM, Margot King at margot.king(a)ca.inter.net wrote:

> Dear Hans Peter and Barbara and the list in general:
> 
> I'm quite overwhelmed by your speedy responses. Heinrich Kalkmann and
> Margretta Holtmann did in fact emigrate on the same boat but whether
> they knew each other before they left Germany or only met on the ship I
> have no idea. I'll keep on slogging away at the puzzle but in the
> meantime, thank you very much for the good suggestions.
> 
> Margot
> Margot King
> 17 Woodside Avenue
> Toronto ON M6P 1L6 Canada
> Email: margot.king(a)ca.inter.net
> Phone: (416) 604-3111
> http://www.peregrina.com
> 
> On Feb 13, 2006, at 9:11 PM, hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net wrote:
> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: 13 Feb 2006 17:11 GMT
>> From: 320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de
>> Subject: Re: [HN] Kalkmann and Holtmann families
>> To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>> Message-ID: <1F8iEO-1MBiMK0(a)fwd26.sul.t-online.de>
>> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset="US-ASCII"
>> 
>> Hello Margot King,
>> 
>> on first sight, there is no place given today named "Hessum". A
>> similar sounding place in Lower Saxony today is "Hessens", which is a
>> part of "26384 Wilhelmshaven". There was given   in 1998 a "HOLTMANN,
>> I., Ulmenstr. 29, 26384 Wilhelmshaven, Tel. 04421 36386".
>> 
>> Holtmann is no rare name, Kalkmann is it much more. The spread of both
>> names is not centered in Lower-Saxony, but in the common region with
>> North-Rhine-Westfalia. For example you find both names given to a
>> certain amount in the town "Osnabrück". Osnabrück belongs to
>> Lower-Saxony since 1823. So it might be perhaps wise to widen your
>> research on this common region nearby the border to the Netherlands as
>> also the spread of Holtmann is much more in the south-western parts of
>> Lower saxony than in the North and East of former Kingdom of Hannover.
>> 
>> Perhaps someone else knows better and more advice.
>> Good luck in your research
>> 
>> Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel
>> 
>> ...
>> 
>> "Margot King" <margot.king(a)ca.inter.net> schrieb:
>>> I am trying to get some information about my great-great-great
>>> grandparents Heinrich Kalkmann and Margretta Holtmann who emigrated
>>> from Hannover to St. Louis in 1856 and were married in St. Louis in
>>> 1857. Their ship sailed from Bremen and arrived in New York on Nov 17,
>>> 1856. Apart from the passenger list and the record of their marriage,
>>> the only hard information I have on them is an obituary card for
>>> Heinrich which says that he was born in Hessum Hannover on 9 May 1824
>>> and died in Melrose Minnesota on 3 Jun 1895. The Holtmanns are a
>>> complete mystery to me. I would appreciate any help in locating more
>>> information about them.
>>> 
>>> Thank you.
>>> 
>>> Margot King
>>> 17 Woodside Avenue
>>> Toronto ON M6P 1L6 Canada
>>> Phone: (416) 604-3111
>>> Fax: (416) 604-7883
>>> email: margot.king(a)ca.inter.net
>>> 
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:05:17 -0700
>> From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [HN] Kalkmann and Holtmann families
>> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>> Message-ID: <C0165EBD.6EA7%raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>> 
>> HI Margot,
>> A couple questions here--
>> Did Heinrich and  Margretta emigrate on the same boat?
>> 
>> You probably know all about the census--
>> Are they the couple in Oak, Stearns Minnesota in the 1880
>> census?
>> They have dropped on the "n"  which is not usual.  They both are
>> listed as
>> coming from Prussia in that census.
>> In the 1870 census in Stearns Minnesota, they are listed as from
>> Hanover:
>> http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/mn/stearns/census/1870/pg075a.txt
>> No new clues there.
>> In the 1910 census Mille Lacs Mn, there is a family with the
>> father
>> called Jerry Kalkmann and he says his parents came from Germany. No
>> clues
>> there.
>> 
>> The name Kalkman(n) seems to be a common Dutch name and there is
>> a town
>> in the Netherlands by the name of Hessum.  Probably doesn't matches
>> this
>> family.
>> 
>> There is a tiny town in Germany called Hessen near Dardesheim,
>> but it
>> was not in Hannover.  It is in Saxony-Anhalt, close to the border.
>> 
>> Have you tried to get the original record of the marriage, or the
>> births of the children?  Sometimes, the town will be mentioned in that
>> kind
>> of record.  Maybe Hessum is a tiny town, too small to be included in
>> the
>> index of my trusty autoatlas.  Where???
>> 
>> Were your people Catholic?  This is a interesting website which has
>> many
>> people coming to St. Louis.  They are from the area called the Emsland
>> which
>> is near the Dutch border along the Ems river. Most of the people were
>> Catholic from that area.  Look here - Kalkmann and Holtmann are listed.
>> http://www.emslanders.com/
>> 
>> Well, I don't know where the town of Hessum is. I hope someone
>> can find
>> it.  Maybe it is spelled wrong?  I came across one in my English
>> research --
>> the obit said the place of birth was Maw Gap and the town is really
>> Mow Cop.
>> So you never know!
>> 
>> Do a lot of Google searches with the surname and the town of
>> Hessum or
>> Hessen or some such.
>> 
>> Good luck,
>> Barbara
>> 
>> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Speckmann

Date: 2006/02/14 16:35:07
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

jb
 
Thanks for the heads up. I have not responded to these - I don't remember getting them via the email list. 
 
 
jb it appears there is some kind of bulletin board for this list - that is news to me I will check it out.
 
Thanks again,
 
Anybody know what a GED file is?
 
Barney Speckman
 
-----Original Message-----
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:30:58 -0800
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann


Not sure if you have contacted these folks yet Barney (if so ignore this). The messages carry today's date though, and pertain to Niedersachsen. Can't hurt to check as they say. 
 
Laurie's name and addy I recognize from a different mailing list. She's been at the game for some time now, but I'm not sure if I saw posts before from her re Speckmanns (could easily have missed them though, if that were the case). 
 
Jb 
 
---------- 
 
Message Board URL: 
 
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2.1.1.1.2 
 
Message Board Post: 
Hi - my name is Monna Lienemann. I am hoping that your email is still the same. I have sent you a ged com file on the Speckmanns. 
 
Please respond to grammymammy11(a)msn.com 
 
---------- 
 
Message Board URL: 
 
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2.1.1.1.3 
 
Message Board Post: 
Can you tell me wee your Speckmann family originate from. Please write directly to me at marilyn(a)mcoster.freeserve.co.uk 
 
Kind regards Laurie 
 
_________________________________________________________________ 
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ 
 
______________________________________________ 
 
Hannover-L mailing list 
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

[HN] Thank you

Date: 2006/02/14 17:13:26
From: Margot King <margot.king(a)ca.inter.net>

Dear Barbara and Falk Liebezeit,

Thank you both very, very much. Now all I have to do is to familiarize myself with German geography!

Gratefully
Margot

Margot King
17 Woodside Avenue
Toronto ON M6P 1L6 Canada
Phone: (416) 604-3111
Fax: (416) 604-7883
email: margot.king(a)ca.inter.net


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 23:41:53 -0700
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Re: Kalkmann and Holtmann families
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Message-ID: <C016C9C0.6EBA%raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Hello Margot,
       If you haven't looked for Kalkman on the www.emslanders.com yet,
please do. There is a Johan Heinrich Kalkman listed born in 1824. There is a note that he is listed with Marg. Holtman on the ship in 1856. Johann Heinrich comes from the town of Herssum, parish Holte. That has to be your
ancestor, doesn't it?  Herssum is north of Holte, which is northeast of
Haselünne and a little west of Löningen.  I think that's it!
Barbara


From: FalkLiebe(a)t-online.de
	Subject: W:  [HN] Kalkmann and Holtmann families
	Date: February 14, 2006 1:00:57 AM EST
	To: margot.king(a)ca.inter.net
Dear Mrs. KIng,

To me Hessum is Herssum, parish Holte on the Huemmling, general area Emsland - Meppen - Haseluenne.

(all situated within the former kingdom of Hannover). I have not noticed Kalkmann there, but I was not looking for them either, probably Mr. Albers is right in his guess.

The catholic vital records can be read in Osnabrueck on Wednesday and Thiursday, in Meppen on Friday.

You need a reservation for the microfiche reader.  

Sincerely yours

Falk Liebezeit, Professional Genealogist, Diepholz, Germany

http://www.falk-liebezeit.de

llllllllllllll


Re: [HN] Speckmann

Date: 2006/02/14 17:39:20
From: svcygnus <svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com>

Hi Barney,
    .ged is a Gedcom file extension .... a sort of universal genealogical file
that can be used by most, if not all, genealogical programs.
Don Roddy


----- Message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com ---------
    Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:34:52 -0500
    From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
 Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
      To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net



jb

Thanks for the heads up. I have not responded to these - I don't remember getting them via the email list.


jb it appears there is some kind of bulletin board for this list - that is news to me I will check it out.

Thanks again,

Anybody know what a GED file is?

Barney Speckman

-----Original Message-----
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:30:58 -0800
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann


Not sure if you have contacted these folks yet Barney (if so ignore this). The messages carry today's date though, and pertain to Niedersachsen. Can't hurt to check as they say.

Laurie's name and addy I recognize from a different mailing list. She's been at the game for some time now, but I'm not sure if I saw posts before from her re Speckmanns (could easily have missed them though, if that were the case).

Jb

----------

Message Board URL:

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2.1.1.1.2

Message Board Post:
Hi - my name is Monna Lienemann. I am hoping that your email is still the same. I have sent you a ged com file on the Speckmanns.

Please respond to grammymammy11(a)msn.com

----------

Message Board URL:

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2.1.1.1.3

Message Board Post:
Can you tell me wee your Speckmann family originate from. Please write directly to me at marilyn(a)mcoster.freeserve.co.uk

Kind regards Laurie

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



----- End message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com -----



Re: [HN] Speckmann

Date: 2006/02/14 19:52:30
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi Don,
 
Thanks for the info. I have yet to invest in a program but understand that the Family Tree Maker (I think that is the name) is one of the better ones.
 
Any coments on such programs?
 
Barney 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:38:25 -0500
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann


Hi Barney, 
  .ged is a Gedcom file extension .... a sort of universal genealogical file 
that can be used by most, if not all, genealogical programs. 
Don Roddy 
 
----- Message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com --------- 
  Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:34:52 -0500 
  From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com 
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net> 
 Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann 
  To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net 
 
> 
> jb 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up. I have not responded to these - I don't > remember getting them via the email list. 
> 
> 
> jb it appears there is some kind of bulletin board for this list - > that is news to me I will check it out. 
> 
> Thanks again, 
> 
> Anybody know what a GED file is? 
> 
> Barney Speckman 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com> 
> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net 
> Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:30:58 -0800 
> Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann 
> 
> 
> Not sure if you have contacted these folks yet Barney (if so ignore > this). The messages carry today's date though, and pertain to > Niedersachsen. Can't hurt to check as they say. 
> 
> Laurie's name and addy I recognize from a different mailing list. > She's been at the game for some time now, but I'm not sure if I saw > posts before from her re Speckmanns (could easily have missed them > though, if that were the case). 
> 
> Jb 
> 
> ---------- 
> 
> Message Board URL: 
> 
> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2.1.1.1.2 
> 
> Message Board Post: 
> Hi - my name is Monna Lienemann. I am hoping that your email is still > the same. I have sent you a ged com file on the Speckmanns. 
> 
> Please respond to grammymammy11(a)msn.com 
> 
> ---------- 
> 
> Message Board URL: 
> 
> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2.1.1.1.3 
> 
> Message Board Post: 
> Can you tell me wee your Speckmann family originate from. Please > write directly to me at marilyn(a)mcoster.freeserve.co.uk 
> 
> Kind regards Laurie 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________ 
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's > FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ 
> 
> ______________________________________________ 
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list 
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 
> ______________________________________________ 
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list 
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 
> 
 
----- End message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com ----- 
 
______________________________________________ 
 
Hannover-L mailing list 
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

Re: [HN] Speckmann

Date: 2006/02/14 20:59:32
From: Bob Marhenke <bobmarval(a)juno.com>

Hi Barney,

Let me recommend Roots Magic as a program.---Bob


On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:51:34 -0500 bmspeckman(a)aol.com writes:
> Hi Don,
>  
> Thanks for the info. I have yet to invest in a program but 
> understand that the Family Tree Maker (I think that is the name) is 
> one of the better ones.
>  
> Any coments on such programs?
>  
> Barney 
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com
> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:38:25 -0500
> Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> 
> 
> Hi Barney, 
>   .ged is a Gedcom file extension .... a sort of universal 
> genealogical file 
> that can be used by most, if not all, genealogical programs. 
> Don Roddy 
>  
> ----- Message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com --------- 
>   Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:34:52 -0500 
>   From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com 
> Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net> 
>  Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann 
>   To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net 
>  
> > 
> > jb 
> > 
> > Thanks for the heads up. I have not responded to these - I don't > 
> remember getting them via the email list. 
> > 
> > 
> > jb it appears there is some kind of bulletin board for this list - 
> > that is news to me I will check it out. 
> > 
> > Thanks again, 
> > 
> > Anybody know what a GED file is? 
> > 
> > Barney Speckman 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com> 
> > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net 
> > Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:30:58 -0800 
> > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann 
> > 
> > 
> > Not sure if you have contacted these folks yet Barney (if so 
> ignore > this). The messages carry today's date though, and pertain 
> to > Niedersachsen. Can't hurt to check as they say. 
> > 
> > Laurie's name and addy I recognize from a different mailing list. 
> > She's been at the game for some time now, but I'm not sure if I 
> saw > posts before from her re Speckmanns (could easily have missed 
> them > though, if that were the case). 
> > 
> > Jb 
> > 
> > ---------- 
> > 
> > Message Board URL: 
> > 
> > 
>
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2
.1.1.1.2 
> 
> > 
> > Message Board Post: 
> > Hi - my name is Monna Lienemann. I am hoping that your email is 
> still > the same. I have sent you a ged com file on the Speckmanns. 
> 
> > 
> > Please respond to grammymammy11(a)msn.com 
> > 
> > ---------- 
> > 
> > Message Board URL: 
> > 
> > 
>
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2
.1.1.1.3 
> 
> > 
> > Message Board Post: 
> > Can you tell me wee your Speckmann family originate from. Please > 
> write directly to me at marilyn(a)mcoster.freeserve.co.uk 
> > 
> > Kind regards Laurie 
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________________ 
> 
> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - 
> it's > FREE! 
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________ 
> > 
> > Hannover-L mailing list 
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 
> > ______________________________________________ 
> > 
> > Hannover-L mailing list 
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 
> > 
>  
> ----- End message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com ----- 
>  
> ______________________________________________ 
>  
> Hannover-L mailing list 
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 

Re: [HN] Speckmann

Date: 2006/02/14 23:17:29
From: svcygnus <svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com>

Hi Barney,
   I've heard several people say they like it, but I've never used it myself.
   When I was first starting to get into Genealogy my wife noticed a "Snap!
Family Tree" program on sale at Best Buy for $5. She talked me into buying it which I was reluctant to do because I figured you only get what you pay for. I
finally decided I could afford to waste $5 and bought it.   I've been very
pleased with it and the price is definitely a bargain!
Don Roddy.


----- Message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com ---------
    Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:51:34 -0500
    From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
 Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
      To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net



Hi Don,

Thanks for the info. I have yet to invest in a program but understand that the Family Tree Maker (I think that is the name) is one of the better ones.

Any coments on such programs?

Barney



RE: [HN] RAHENKAMP family

Date: 2006/02/14 23:44:57
From: Carol Payne <snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net>

> On the German end or stateside Carol, or both?

Both - but I believe I've found just about everything stateside, and that's
why I wrote to the Hannover list.

If it is stateside, have you attempted to locate Adam, Maria and Anna's
respective obituaries, since you have their dates of death? As you may know,
some areas - other than generally the largest American cities - produced or
allowed substantially more in depth newspaper accounts of deaths and
funerals than other places. Always worth checking, and remember larger hubs
often ran multiple newspapers concurrently, even 100 years ago (so check all
if possible).

I did find their Death Notice in the Newark News, but there was no Obituary
or larger account.  I will take your suggestion and try some of the other
local news papers.

How about Adam's will or probate record in Newark?

My original thought was that he probably did not have a Will, but now, I
have no idea why I thought that way.  So, I have just now sent off my
request for a copy of his Will from the New Jersey Archives.  If there's a
Will to be found, I know Bette Epstein will find it!  I have also asked her
to look for a Will from another RAHENKAMP family that lived in Newark, in
the same neighborhood, and buried in the same cemetery.  Finding the
"connection" is driving us all crazy!

I have not checked for any land deeds or title transfers.  Again, I don't
know why.  I guess because the earlier census did not include questions
about the owning or renting of the dwelling....  Thank you - I will add that
search to my list.

And yes, I concluded that Adam and Maria must have had other children before
Anna, because of their age.  Starting a family that late in life, and/or not
having more than one child just doesn't seem to "fit tradition".  As you
say, it could suggest that any additional children did not make it to
adulthood (or America).  However, where the 1860 U.S. census did not show
"relationships", it's probably safe to assume that the additional 3 year old
boy born in New Jersey and listed in the household, was their son.  [Which
brings me to a whole other research project - neither the son nor the father
are shown in the 1870 census, but the father is back in the 1880 census.  I
haven't found any death information on the son, nor does he seem to be in
the cemetery with the rest of the family.  And since the father is back in
the 1880 census, I'm wondering if perhaps he made a trip back to Germany -
perhaps to bury the son there, or just to see that he was included in the
family church records.... or maybe Adam just went back to bring other
children to America....?]

As for Adam having siblings.... I'm sure you're correct - the church records
should have the answer.  I'm just sorry that the other researcher only made
note of Anna's christening.  I will, of course, pursue those church
records!!

The reason we suspect/assume other siblings is because we need a
"connection".  At this point, there are three distinct Rahenkamp branches
who have immigrated to America, and we are all lacking "the common
denominator".

THANK YOU for your response to my query.  It definitely helped to clear my
thinking and provide additional avenues for further research!

Regards,  Carol Payne  SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net



RE: [HN] Speckmann

Date: 2006/02/15 00:38:22
From: Paul Scheele <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>

Hi Barney,

I would second Bob. Family Tree Maker has the most marketing behind it, but
it is far from being one of the better programs. You might also try Legacy
which is free and better than Family Tree Maker.
Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
> bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Bob Marhenke
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:57 PM
> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> 
> Hi Barney,
> 
> Let me recommend Roots Magic as a program.---Bob
> 
> 
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:51:34 -0500 bmspeckman(a)aol.com writes:
> > Hi Don,
> >
> > Thanks for the info. I have yet to invest in a program but
> > understand that the Family Tree Maker (I think that is the name) is
> > one of the better ones.
> >
> > Any coments on such programs?
> >
> > Barney
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com
> > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:38:25 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> >
> >
> > Hi Barney,
> >   .ged is a Gedcom file extension .... a sort of universal
> > genealogical file
> > that can be used by most, if not all, genealogical programs.
> > Don Roddy
> >
> > ----- Message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com ---------
> >   Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:34:52 -0500
> >   From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
> > Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> >  Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> >   To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> >
> > >
> > > jb
> > >
> > > Thanks for the heads up. I have not responded to these - I don't >
> > remember getting them via the email list.
> > >
> > >
> > > jb it appears there is some kind of bulletin board for this list -
> > > that is news to me I will check it out.
> > >
> > > Thanks again,
> > >
> > > Anybody know what a GED file is?
> > >
> > > Barney Speckman
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
> > > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > > Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:30:58 -0800
> > > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > >
> > >
> > > Not sure if you have contacted these folks yet Barney (if so
> > ignore > this). The messages carry today's date though, and pertain
> > to > Niedersachsen. Can't hurt to check as they say.
> > >
> > > Laurie's name and addy I recognize from a different mailing list.
> > > She's been at the game for some time now, but I'm not sure if I
> > saw > posts before from her re Speckmanns (could easily have missed
> > them > though, if that were the case).
> > >
> > > Jb
> > >
> > > ----------
> > >
> > > Message Board URL:
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2
> .1.1.1.2
> >
> > >
> > > Message Board Post:
> > > Hi - my name is Monna Lienemann. I am hoping that your email is
> > still > the same. I have sent you a ged com file on the Speckmanns.
> >
> > >
> > > Please respond to grammymammy11(a)msn.com
> > >
> > > ----------
> > >
> > > Message Board URL:
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2
> .1.1.1.3
> >
> > >
> > > Message Board Post:
> > > Can you tell me wee your Speckmann family originate from. Please >
> > write directly to me at marilyn(a)mcoster.freeserve.co.uk
> > >
> > > Kind regards Laurie
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> >
> > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -
> > it's > FREE!
> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > >
> >
> > ----- End message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com -----
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


RE: [HN] RAHENKAMP family

Date: 2006/02/15 02:28:06
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Carol wrote:

Both - but I believe I've found just about everything stateside, and that's why I wrote to the Hannover list.

Though I know what you mean in general, remember it's never the case. There is always something more that can be found.

A reminder also: will and probate records are not always linked by local jurisdiction filing protocols. Hard to believe but true. So generally you ought to think of those two record types as separate when it comes to locating them. Often a will may be referenced or cited in the probate record, but you may find no copy of it is included in the probate docket/dossier itself. It is also not unusual to see wills duly recorded at the local level, but never proceed into probate (for various reasons). And on and on the irregularities go, especially the further back you go.

However, where the 1860 U.S. census did not show "relationships", it's probably safe to assume that the additional 3 year old boy born in New Jersey and listed in the household, was their son.

Generally speaking that would be a safe assumption until something comes along to disprove it. The percentages are greatly in your favor in any case.

[Which brings me to a whole other research project - neither the son nor the father are shown in the 1870 census, but the father is back in the 1880 census. I haven't found any death information on the son, nor does he seem to be in the cemetery with the rest of the family. And since the father is back in the 1880 census, I'm wondering if perhaps he made a trip back to Germany - perhaps to bury the son there, or just to see that he was included in the family church records.... or maybe Adam just went back to bring other children to America....?]

Is this all at the same residence, or on the same property? Another reason land deeds and transfers can be revealing in filling in certain informational gaps. The son could very likely have died, and death/burial/cemetery information back at that time would be hit and miss at best. Not sure if this is a city dwelling or farm locale, but if the latter, the child might have been buried on the property itself. Do you = know = Adam went back to Germany at some point? During the 19th century, a return trip to Germany would be most unusual. Not unheard of, just unlikely due to the expense and distance. To take a child back to bury on German soil would be a very very unlikely scenario. I would also think it rather unusual for children to be left behind in Germany when a perspective couple came over together with at least one child in tow (again not impossible, just nothing to hold your breath on). As for the father missing in one particular census, it could be he was out of town visiting someone, or staying with family or friends, or else working out of the area (possibly with his 13 year old son). The census taker may have felt he/they would be picked up elsewhere in the enumeration process and requested just the present and accountable inhabitants of the dwelling. There has always been some inconsistencies in this regard when it comes to the US censuses. It's one reason that you occasionally find the same person listed in two places at once (assuming they didn't relocate between the time the respective census takers came knocking). And as you quickly learn, some census takers took their job a lot more seriously than others. A few were downright shoddy in their work.

Now by 1880, the same "missing" [?] son would be 23, and may have been on his own if he didn't die earlier. Always check high and low!

As for Adam having siblings.... I'm sure you're correct - the church records should have the answer. I'm just sorry that the other researcher only made note of Anna's christening.

Right, but let's not forget she may have been an only child also. There could have been a whole slew of reasons why this would be the case, even if larger families were 'par for the course' back then.

The reason we suspect/assume other siblings is because we need a "connection". At this point, there are three distinct Rahenkamp branches who have immigrated to America, and we are all lacking "the common denominator".

Understand. Hopefully the local church records will bear this out. Only don't lose sight of the fact that the name connection could predate this particular generation (if there's one to be had at all). If the three branches you speak of all come from the same general vicinity in Germany, you have a much greater likelihood to 'make' this connection you're seeking, as I'm sure you're aware.

THANK YOU for your response to my query. It definitely helped to clear my thinking and provide additional avenues for further research!

Keep trucking! ;)

Jb

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963


Re: [HN] Speckmann

Date: 2006/02/15 04:55:42
From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>

I like Personal Ancestral File; it is good; it is free and help is free at
an 800 number.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Scheele" <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>
To: "'Hannover-L'" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:38 PM
Subject: RE: [HN] Speckmann


> Hi Barney,
>
> I would second Bob. Family Tree Maker has the most marketing behind it,
but
> it is far from being one of the better programs. You might also try Legacy
> which is free and better than Family Tree Maker.
> Paul
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
> > bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Bob Marhenke
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:57 PM
> > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> >
> > Hi Barney,
> >
> > Let me recommend Roots Magic as a program.---Bob
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:51:34 -0500 bmspeckman(a)aol.com writes:
> > > Hi Don,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the info. I have yet to invest in a program but
> > > understand that the Family Tree Maker (I think that is the name) is
> > > one of the better ones.
> > >
> > > Any coments on such programs?
> > >
> > > Barney
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com
> > > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > > Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:38:25 -0500
> > > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Barney,
> > >   .ged is a Gedcom file extension .... a sort of universal
> > > genealogical file
> > > that can be used by most, if not all, genealogical programs.
> > > Don Roddy
> > >
> > > ----- Message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com ---------
> > >   Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:34:52 -0500
> > >   From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
> > > Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> > >  Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > >   To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > >
> > > >
> > > > jb
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the heads up. I have not responded to these - I don't >
> > > remember getting them via the email list.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > jb it appears there is some kind of bulletin board for this list -
> > > > that is news to me I will check it out.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again,
> > > >
> > > > Anybody know what a GED file is?
> > > >
> > > > Barney Speckman
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
> > > > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > > > Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:30:58 -0800
> > > > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not sure if you have contacted these folks yet Barney (if so
> > > ignore > this). The messages carry today's date though, and pertain
> > > to > Niedersachsen. Can't hurt to check as they say.
> > > >
> > > > Laurie's name and addy I recognize from a different mailing list.
> > > > She's been at the game for some time now, but I'm not sure if I
> > > saw > posts before from her re Speckmanns (could easily have missed
> > > them > though, if that were the case).
> > > >
> > > > Jb
> > > >
> > > > ----------
> > > >
> > > > Message Board URL:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2
> > .1.1.1.2
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Message Board Post:
> > > > Hi - my name is Monna Lienemann. I am hoping that your email is
> > > still > the same. I have sent you a ged com file on the Speckmanns.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Please respond to grammymammy11(a)msn.com
> > > >
> > > > ----------
> > > >
> > > > Message Board URL:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2
> > .1.1.1.3
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Message Board Post:
> > > > Can you tell me wee your Speckmann family originate from. Please >
> > > write directly to me at marilyn(a)mcoster.freeserve.co.uk
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards Laurie
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -
> > > it's > FREE!
> > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> > > >
> > > > ______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > > ______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > >
> > >
> > > ----- End message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com -----
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > >
> > >
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>



[HN] Re: Gedcom files and Co.

Date: 2006/02/15 06:14:58
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

Hi Barney
 
If you are looking for a program you should have one to export so called  
Gedcom files. If you have for example family tree maker and i have PAF 5.5 you  
can send me a gedcom file out of your program and i can import the datas into 
my  program!
 
By the way i use PAF 5.5 only to have the tree in form of an electronic  tree 
of course no pictures within. But PAF 5.5 is FREE, you can download it at  
the LDS church site.
 
But you should have DSL a fast internet connection with an old modem you  
will need one hour for the download :-)))))))))))))
 
Armin

[HN] Soldatenbild

Date: 2006/02/15 14:53:00
From: Pschwenkedu <Pschwenkedu(a)aol.com>

Hallo !
Sollten in der Liste sich keine Bildangebote ergeben,ist folgender Verein 
eine Informationsquelle, denn dieser hat eine Sachverständigengruppe mit 
Sachkennern der Militärgeschichte.
VdW-Verband für Waffentechnik und Geschichte Vorsitz Dr.jur Scholzen 
-Oststraße 154
40210 Düsseldorf  www.vdw-duesseldorf.de eMail Info(a)vdw-duesseldorf.de
MfG
PWS

Re: [HN] Speckmann

Date: 2006/02/15 16:24:45
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hannover Listees,
 
Thanks to Paul, Bob and others who have added to the discussion. I have some homework to do on this before I make the leap.
 
Thanks again,
 
Barney Speckman   
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:56:44 -0600
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann


I like Personal Ancestral File; it is good; it is free and help is free at
an 800 number.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Scheele" <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>
To: "'Hannover-L'" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:38 PM
Subject: RE: [HN] Speckmann


> Hi Barney,
>
> I would second Bob. Family Tree Maker has the most marketing behind it,
but
> it is far from being one of the better programs. You might also try Legacy
> which is free and better than Family Tree Maker.
> Paul
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
> > bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Bob Marhenke
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:57 PM
> > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> >
> > Hi Barney,
> >
> > Let me recommend Roots Magic as a program.---Bob
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:51:34 -0500 bmspeckman(a)aol.com writes:
> > > Hi Don,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the info. I have yet to invest in a program but
> > > understand that the Family Tree Maker (I think that is the name) is
> > > one of the better ones.
> > >
> > > Any coments on such programs?
> > >
> > > Barney
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com
> > > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > > Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:38:25 -0500
> > > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Barney,
> > >   .ged is a Gedcom file extension .... a sort of universal
> > > genealogical file
> > > that can be used by most, if not all, genealogical programs.
> > > Don Roddy
> > >
> > > ----- Message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com ---------
> > >   Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:34:52 -0500
> > >   From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
> > > Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> > >  Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > >   To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > >
> > > >
> > > > jb
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the heads up. I have not responded to these - I don't >
> > > remember getting them via the email list.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > jb it appears there is some kind of bulletin board for this list -
> > > > that is news to me I will check it out.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again,
> > > >
> > > > Anybody know what a GED file is?
> > > >
> > > > Barney Speckman
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
> > > > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > > > Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:30:58 -0800
> > > > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not sure if you have contacted these folks yet Barney (if so
> > > ignore > this). The messages carry today's date though, and pertain
> > > to > Niedersachsen. Can't hurt to check as they say.
> > > >
> > > > Laurie's name and addy I recognize from a different mailing list.
> > > > She's been at the game for some time now, but I'm not sure if I
> > > saw > posts before from her re Speckmanns (could easily have missed
> > > them > though, if that were the case).
> > > >
> > > > Jb
> > > >
> > > > ----------
> > > >
> > > > Message Board URL:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2
> > .1.1.1.2
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Message Board Post:
> > > > Hi - my name is Monna Lienemann. I am hoping that your email is
> > > still > the same. I have sent you a ged com file on the Speckmanns.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Please respond to grammymammy11(a)msn.com
> > > >
> > > > ----------
> > > >
> > > > Message Board URL:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2
> > .1.1.1.3
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Message Board Post:
> > > > Can you tell me wee your Speckmann family originate from. Please >
> > > write directly to me at marilyn(a)mcoster.freeserve.co.uk
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards Laurie
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -
> > > it's > FREE!
> > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> > > >
> > > > ______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > > ______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > >
> > >
> > > ----- End message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com -----
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > >
> > >
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Re: [HN] Re: Gedcom files and Co.

Date: 2006/02/15 16:34:51
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi Armin,
 
Thanks for the insight. I did not understand the reference in your email to having the "tree in the form of an electronic tree" - sorrry I am a novice with these prpograms.
 
With the standardization on the Gedcom file format it would appear that it would not be a major project to change from one program to another in the future provided the export import function works. In that case, selecting a program to start working with would seem less import than say selecting something that would require major retooling to replace. Is that logic about right?
 
Thanks again,
 
Barney Speckman
 
-----Original Message-----
From: AJHattorf(a)aol.com
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 00:14:32 EST
Subject: [HN] Re: Gedcom files and Co.


Hi Barney
 
If you are looking for a program you should have one to export so called  
Gedcom files. If you have for example family tree maker and i have PAF 5.5 you  
can send me a gedcom file out of your program and i can import the datas into 
my  program!
 
By the way i use PAF 5.5 only to have the tree in form of an electronic  tree 
of course no pictures within. But PAF 5.5 is FREE, you can download it at  
the LDS church site.
 
But you should have DSL a fast internet connection with an old modem you  
will need one hour for the download :-)))))))))))))
 
Armin
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Kalkmann

Date: 2006/02/15 21:19:50
From: Ruth Decker <ruth.decker(a)gmx.de>

Hallo,
in unserer Totenbildersammlung  habe ich einen
Josef Kalkmann 1895 einen August Kalkmann der 1897 und Bernad Kalkmann der 1900 jeweils in Bookhoff bei Herzlake geboren und in Benstrup bei Löningen verstorben sind.

Holtmann habe ich aus Beesten bei Ankum und aus Haselünne.
Grüße aus Südoldenburg
Ruth Decker


"Margot King" <margot.king(a)ca.inter.net> schrieb:

I am trying to get some information about my great-great-great
grandparents Heinrich Kalkmann and Margretta Holtmann who emigrated
from Hannover to St. Louis in 1856 and were married in St. Louis in
1857. Their ship sailed from Bremen and arrived in New York on Nov 17,
1856. Apart from the passenger list and the record of their marriage,
the only hard information I have on them is an obituary card for
Heinrich which says that he was born in Hessum Hannover on 9 May 1824
and died in Melrose Minnesota on 3 Jun 1895. The Holtmanns are a
complete mystery to me. I would appreciate any help in locating more
information about them.

Thank you.

Margot King
17 Woodside Avenue
Toronto ON M6P 1L6 Canada
Phone: (416) 604-3111
Fax: (416) 604-7883
email: margot.king(a)ca.inter.net

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/ma



RE: [HN] RAHENKAMP family

Date: 2006/02/15 21:22:44
From: bobbidoll <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>


Have you done DNA testing?

Bobbi

--- On Tue 02/14, Carol Payne < snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net > wrote:
From: Carol Payne [mailto: snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net]
To: Hannover-l(a)genealogy.net, johnbrene(a)hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:38:07 -0600
Subject: RE: [HN] RAHENKAMP family

The reason we suspect/assume other siblings is because we need a<br>"connection".  At this point, there are three distinct Rahenkamp branches<br>who have immigrated to America, and we are all lacking "the common<br>denominator".
 Carol Payne  SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way  your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com



Re: [HN] Speckmann

Date: 2006/02/16 01:04:55
From: Bob Marhenke <bobmarval(a)juno.com>

Hi Barney,

Why don't you go on-line and go to http://www.rootsmagic.com  and
download a free trial.  Then you will know what it is like.  You can
always E-mail me to help you get started.  I also have PAF and Tree Maker
and never use them unless some one sends me a backup file in one of these
programs.  I guarantee you will like Roots Magic.----Bob

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:24:33 -0500 bmspeckman(a)aol.com writes:
> Hannover Listees,
>  
> Thanks to Paul, Bob and others who have added to the discussion. I 
> have some homework to do on this before I make the leap.
>  
> Thanks again,
>  
> Barney Speckman   
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>
> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:56:44 -0600
> Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> 
> 
> I like Personal Ancestral File; it is good; it is free and help is 
> free at
> an 800 number.
> 
> Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Paul Scheele" <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>
> To: "'Hannover-L'" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:38 PM
> Subject: RE: [HN] Speckmann
> 
> 
> > Hi Barney,
> >
> > I would second Bob. Family Tree Maker has the most marketing 
> behind it,
> but
> > it is far from being one of the better programs. You might also 
> try Legacy
> > which is free and better than Family Tree Maker.
> > Paul
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
> > > bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Bob Marhenke
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:57 PM
> > > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > >
> > > Hi Barney,
> > >
> > > Let me recommend Roots Magic as a program.---Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:51:34 -0500 bmspeckman(a)aol.com writes:
> > > > Hi Don,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the info. I have yet to invest in a program but
> > > > understand that the Family Tree Maker (I think that is the 
> name) is
> > > > one of the better ones.
> > > >
> > > > Any coments on such programs?
> > > >
> > > > Barney
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com
> > > > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > > > Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:38:25 -0500
> > > > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Barney,
> > > >   .ged is a Gedcom file extension .... a sort of universal
> > > > genealogical file
> > > > that can be used by most, if not all, genealogical programs.
> > > > Don Roddy
> > > >
> > > > ----- Message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com ---------
> > > >   Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:34:52 -0500
> > > >   From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
> > > > Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> > > >  Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > > >   To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > jb
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the heads up. I have not responded to these - I 
> don't >
> > > > remember getting them via the email list.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > jb it appears there is some kind of bulletin board for this 
> list -
> > > > > that is news to me I will check it out.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks again,
> > > > >
> > > > > Anybody know what a GED file is?
> > > > >
> > > > > Barney Speckman
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
> > > > > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > > > > Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:30:58 -0800
> > > > > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Not sure if you have contacted these folks yet Barney (if 
> so
> > > > ignore > this). The messages carry today's date though, and 
> pertain
> > > > to > Niedersachsen. Can't hurt to check as they say.
> > > > >
> > > > > Laurie's name and addy I recognize from a different mailing 
> list.
> > > > > She's been at the game for some time now, but I'm not sure 
> if I
> > > > saw > posts before from her re Speckmanns (could easily have 
> missed
> > > > them > though, if that were the case).
> > > > >
> > > > > Jb
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------
> > > > >
> > > > > Message Board URL:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2
> > > .1.1.1.2
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Message Board Post:
> > > > > Hi - my name is Monna Lienemann. I am hoping that your email 
> is
> > > > still > the same. I have sent you a ged com file on the 
> Speckmanns.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Please respond to grammymammy11(a)msn.com
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------
> > > > >
> > > > > Message Board URL:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2
> > > .1.1.1.3
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Message Board Post:
> > > > > Can you tell me wee your Speckmann family originate from. 
> Please >
> > > > write directly to me at marilyn(a)mcoster.freeserve.co.uk
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards Laurie
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download 
> today -
> > > > it's > FREE!
> > > > 
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> > > > >
> > > > > ______________________________________________
> > > > >
> > > > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > > > ______________________________________________
> > > > >
> > > > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- End message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com -----
> > > >
> > > > ______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > > ______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 

[HN] DNA Testing

Date: 2006/02/16 02:31:37
From: TYKE <tyke60(a)centurytel.net>

how does one do genealogy with dna

Re: [HN] DNA Testing

Date: 2006/02/16 02:47:33
From: khreed <khreed(a)cinci.rr.com>

I would suggest you go to a web site like www.familytreedna.com and 
read everything on the site.  You can order different tests, read their 
applicability to genealogy, read about their limitations.  

----- Original Message -----
From: TYKE <tyke60(a)centurytel.net>
Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:31 pm
Subject: [HN] DNA Testing

> how does one do genealogy with dna 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 

[HN] Re: DNA Testing

Date: 2006/02/16 02:51:51
From: William Taber <willgen(a)mac.com>

Please visit the ISOGG Genetic Genealogy Q&A for Beginners http://www.isogg.org/ggfaq.htm

ISOGG = International Society of Genetic Genealogy
http://www.isogg.org/

They also provide a Yahoo group for inquiries about the science and methodologies
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DNA-NEWBIE/
The group maintains a vast array of useful links for more information.

Regards,
William Taber

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 19:31:29 -0600
From: "TYKE" <tyke60(a)centurytel.net>
Subject: [HN] DNA Testing
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Message-ID: <004e01c63298$b8a385e0$2f01a8c0(a)TYKE>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

how does one do genealogy with dna


RE: [HN] Re: DNA Testing

Date: 2006/02/16 03:27:49
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

I did mine, and it's fully confirmed now. I descend from Bigfoot!

There was a faint trace of a Brontosaurus in there also, but that was on a secondary maternal line twice removed.

Jbigfoot

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement


[HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Kalkmann

Date: 2006/02/16 04:04:27
From: Margot King <margot.king(a)ca.inter.net>

Dear Ruth,

Danke vielmals! Thank you very much and I apologize for replying in English -- aber mein Deutsch ist ganz schrecklich!

I wonder if your Kalkmanns might be related to mine. There is a Benard Kalkmann listed in the 1860 federal census for Stearns County in Minnesota (and his name mispelled as Caldmann!) but as with yours, I have no idea if he was any relation to Heinrich.

Best wishes and thanks again
Margot

Margot King
17 Woodside Avenue
Toronto ON M6P 1L6 Canada
Phone: (416) 604-3111
Fax: (416) 604-7883
email: margot.king(a)ca.inter.net

On 15-Feb-06, at 8:31 PM, hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net wrote:

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 21:19:27 +0100
From: Ruth Decker <ruth.decker(a)gmx.de>
Subject: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Kalkmann
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Message-ID: <43F38CCF.4000507(a)gmx.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hallo,
in unserer Totenbildersammlung  habe ich einen
Josef Kalkmann 1895 einen
August Kalkmann  der 1897 und
Bernad Kalkmann der 1900
jeweils in Bookhoff bei Herzlake geboren und in Benstrup bei Löningen verstorben sind.

Holtmann habe ich aus Beesten bei Ankum und aus Haselünne.
Grüße aus Südoldenburg
Ruth Decker



[HN] Assumptions and other erratum

Date: 2006/02/16 04:51:38
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Fellow lister Pat Huck wrote me earlier today with a cautionary note, one that is worth passing on to the list I think. It emphasizes something we all face in our headlong rush to "find the goods". Without careful examination and an open mind, one can easily be lead astray and even down the wrong path. I can hardly imagine a greater waste of time.

Pat wrote:

My [advice] is not to take everything you read as "fact" without backing it up with other proof. In my 14 years of research, I have encountered many mistakes in census, Catholic Church records and in the newspaper. The census names spelled like the census taker thought they should be spelled, and not as they were correct. On my Great Grandfather, he is listed as an adult in 1860 census. His widowed sister is 1st, then her father-in-law, and then her brother, and then her 2 children. But if you didn't know, it looks like they are her brother's children. In Catholic Church records (regarding the woman who was to become his wife) she is listed with the last name ending in BERG when it should have been BENN. If I didn't know the date of her birth and the first names of the parents, I would have missed it. Now in the newspaper when my grandfather died, he was listed in a small news article as having had 2 children when he had 8 children. Good luck, Pat Huck

Yesterday Carol Payne and I had this exchange part and parcel with her Rahenkamp family dilemma:

CP: However, where the 1860 U.S. census did not show "relationships", it's probably safe to assume that the additional 3 year old boy born in New Jersey and listed in the household, was their son.

Jb: Generally speaking that would be a safe assumption until something comes along to disprove it. The percentages are greatly in your favor in any case.

While what was written is no doubt true on a percentage wide basis, one ought to be careful assuming ANYTHING, or letting wishful (or desperate <g>) thinking cloud better judgment, or overshadow the data as it is found and constituted (however incomplete it may be). The census returns in particular can be troubling in this regard, but as we all know, it doesn't end there.

Sadly some things may remain nebulous or undetermined no matter how hard we try, and until better supported, should probably remain that way. The ultimate goal for family historians is to fill in as many of the blanks as possible, but with as much hard evidence as can be mustered, as opposed to conjecture or colorful assumptions. Some of the things Pat cited in her comments make for a nice case in point. It goes without saying that whenever something doesn't appear quite right, question it and start digging further!

Mona Houser offered what I thought was a particularly sage thought not long back that is also apropos here ::

It really is difficult, at this distance of 150 years, to assign motives to the actions that were taken that long ago.

This same "distance" often makes for less than perfect and incomplete findings to boot. It highlights the struggle we constantly face in our respective genealogical quests in making sure that we don't allow wishful or extraneous notions to prevail over the evidence at hand, however scarce it may be. Many a tail chase has been the result of someone making one too many assumptions along the way.

If anyone has any additional examples or comments to offer, feel free to add them (for educational purposes, if nothing else). ;)

Bests to all. Jb

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


[HN] Re: Gedcom Files and co

Date: 2006/02/16 06:20:28
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

 
In einer eMail vom 16.02.2006 02:33:13 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt  
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

I did  not understand the reference in your email to having the "tree in the 
form of  an electronic tree" - sorrry I am a novice with these  prpograms


Hi Barney
 
Ok this was perhaps a little bit difficult to understand i meant with an  
electronic tree the form of a tree build with a program .... on the other hand  
you have only a tree written on paper.
 
And yes i would try in your case first with PAF 5.5 cause its absolutely  
free the complete name is Peronal Ancestral File why spend a lot of money when  
you can have the same for free.
 
Of course the LDS church is hoping the more persons have PAF the more  
persons will export out of PAF a gedcom.file and send it to the LDS church....  
indeed thats what i done too, cause i dont want that all these datas are lost  
someday, and many people are looking for the LDS site, so there is a big change  
that you will help others and others will help you when they add their  datas.
 
I had no problems with exporting those type of Gedcom files out of PAF and  
my cousin in America was sending me his tree out of Family tree maker and i had 
 no probs to import his gedcom file.
 
My best Armin
 
 

Re: [HN] Assumptions and other erratum

Date: 2006/02/16 07:17:42
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi,
    We do have to be careful.  One must learn and then, remember, that the
IGI records of the LDS are not always accurate.   People send a great many
of those listings from their own personal research.  I got totally mislead
on a listing in my husband's Stewarts from Scotland. I had presumed the
entry was right, but later discovered it didn't make sense.  I have yet to
figure out which Margaret Wilson married a Robert Stewart in a town in
Scotland.  When there are 2 or 3 Margaret Wilsons in that town born in one
and more Margarets in nearby towns, how do you know which is which?  One
generation back further, I can't figure out which of 3 John Stewarts is the
right one.  His age on one census is different from an earlier census.
     I've often wondered which is worse--searching for a really uncommon
name (like my Gügelmeyers) or one that is so common (like Stewart) that you
can't differentiate between them.   Or in early German records, I have a
Euphemia and a Phenenna and I'm told that really is the same name. Or when
the children take the surname of the mother instead of the father.  I have a
case when the children are listed in church records with the father's
surname and others with the mother's. They go back and forth. That's going
back to the 1600's.
     Somehow, we get through and we hope we get it right.
Barbara



on 2/15/06 8:51 PM, J b at johnbrene(a)hotmail.com wrote:

> Fellow lister Pat Huck wrote me earlier today with a cautionary note, one
> that is worth passing on to the list I think. It emphasizes something we all
> face in our headlong rush to "find the goods". Without careful examination
> and an open mind, one can easily be lead astray and even down the wrong
> path. I can hardly imagine a greater waste of time.
> 
> Pat wrote:
> 
>> My [advice] is not to take everything you read as "fact" without backing it
>> up with other proof. In my 14 years of research, I have encountered many
>> mistakes in census, Catholic Church records and in the newspaper. The
>> census names spelled like the census taker thought they should be spelled,
>> and not as they were correct. On my Great Grandfather, he is listed as an
>> adult in 1860 census. His widowed sister is 1st, then her father-in-law,
>> and then her brother, and then her 2 children. But if you didn't know, it
>> looks like they are her brother's children. In Catholic Church records
>> (regarding the woman who was to become his wife) she is listed with the
>> last name ending in BERG when it should have been BENN. If I didn't know
>> the date of her birth and the first names of the parents, I would have
>> missed it. Now in the newspaper when my grandfather died, he was listed in
>> a small news article as having had 2 children when he had 8 children. Good
>> luck, Pat Huck
> 
> Yesterday Carol Payne and I had this exchange part and parcel with her
> Rahenkamp family dilemma:
> 
>> CP: However, where the 1860 U.S. census did not show "relationships", it's
>> probably safe to assume that the additional 3 year old boy born in New
>> Jersey and listed in the household, was their son.
> 
>> Jb: Generally speaking that would be a safe assumption until something
>> comes along to disprove it. The percentages are greatly in your favor in
>> any case.
> 
> While what was written is no doubt true on a percentage wide basis, one
> ought to be careful assuming ANYTHING, or letting wishful (or desperate <g>)
> thinking cloud better judgment, or overshadow the data as it is found and
> constituted (however incomplete it may be). The census returns in particular
> can be troubling in this regard, but as we all know, it doesn't end there.
> 
> Sadly some things may remain nebulous or undetermined no matter how hard we
> try, and until better supported, should probably remain that way. The
> ultimate goal for family historians is to fill in as many of the blanks as
> possible, but with as much hard evidence as can be mustered, as opposed to
> conjecture or colorful assumptions. Some of the things Pat cited in her
> comments make for a nice case in point. It goes without saying that whenever
> something doesn't appear quite right, question it and start digging further!
> 
> Mona Houser offered what I thought was a particularly sage thought not long
> back that is also apropos here ::
> 
>> It really is difficult, at this distance of 150 years, to assign motives to
>> the actions that were taken that long ago.
> 
> This same "distance" often makes for less than perfect and incomplete
> findings to boot. It highlights the struggle we constantly face in our
> respective genealogical quests in making sure that we don't allow wishful or
> extraneous notions to prevail over the evidence at hand, however scarce it
> may be. Many a tail chase has been the result of someone making one too many
> assumptions along the way.
> 
> If anyone has any additional examples or comments to offer, feel free to add
> them (for educational purposes, if nothing else). ;)
> 
> Bests to all. Jb
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Thank you

Date: 2006/02/16 08:46:05
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"Margot King" <margot.king(a)ca.inter.net> schrieb:
> Dear Barbara and Falk Liebezeit,
... 
> > From: FalkLiebe(a)t-online.de
...
> > To me Hessum is Herssum, parish Holte on the Huemmling, general area 
> > Emsland - Meppen - Haseluenne.
> >
> > (all situated within the former kingdom of Hannover). I have not 
> > noticed Kalkmann there, but I was not looking for them either, 
> > probably Mr. Albers is right in his guess.

Hello Mrs Margot King, Falk Liebezeit and Barbara Stewart,

in this case Falk Liebezeit will be probably right, because of still given names Kalkmann and Holtmann in Herssum. My directory from 1998 includes for Herssum:

- KALKMANN, Maria, Herßum, Ostend 9, 49774 Lähden, Tel. 05964 585
- HOLTMANN, Franz, Ahmsener Str. 79, 49774 Lähden, Tel. 05964 1067  

One might check under www.telefonbuch.de, if they are still living there and try to get some genealogical information directly by a letter or another contact.

Best wishes

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

P.S.: Haselünne the place of Ruth Deckers Holtmann is not to far from Herßum

[HN] Mistakes that net results

Date: 2006/02/16 23:19:52
From: gloepertz <gloepertz(a)comcast.net>

A recent revisitation of US census copies of long ago, especially the ones belonging to those deadbeats, who don't want to tell you where they came from and prefer to be the brick wall. I found a mistake in the 1920 Monroe County, NY, census, where they census taker wrote in the name of the community, then crossed it out, and properly filled in "Germany" in the section of "place of birth".
Enhancement of that part of the census provided the possible location. Further research in that community, primarily LDS, resulted in me squeesing out 31 sets of great-grand parents across the ancestor chart, with most ending in the early 1600's and 8 generations.
Lesson learned, go back, you may already have the answer, and try to remember, the smallest detail may produce the largest result.
Guenter in Michigan

[HN] Speckmann Triangulation

Date: 2006/02/17 00:53:18
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Fellow Hannover Detectives,
 
This is an update on my search for my ggf Frederick F Speckmann?s history and a report on the results of requesting records from the Osnabruck Archives.
 
Some time ago, Barbara found an entry in the German Emigration List (she has explained to all of us how it works) for a Freiderich Ferdinand Speckmann which showed up in a search of the Osnabruck list. It showed a town/location of  Dom(Haste/Schinkel). Her explanation also included an email address to obtain the original record from the Osnabruck archives.
 
About February 3, I sent an email to Tanja Volley at the Osnabruck Archives asking her  to proceed with the research in obtaining the original record.
 
In the meanwhile, as I reported earlier, I found the ship that a Fredk Speckmann arrived in NY in June 1860 and from that I was able to get the ship?s manifest and FFS was listed as coming from Schinkel, Hannover and was16 years and 6 months old.
 
Also, I received information from the Osnabruck Genealogy Center that they have a record of a Frederick Ferdinand Speckmann being born on November 1, 1843 in Schinckel (SP).
 
On Feb 8, I was told that the emigration information was sent from Germany. It arrived in San Francisco on Feb 14 (to give you an idea of how long it takes). It contained three sheets related to Frederick Ferdinand Speckmann?s emigration. They are hand written forms in German of course in a very fancy script. One is a bit faint. I cannot read German but I can recognize several clues. One is the date November 1, 1843 (birth date) another is the name which looks like Frederick Ferdinand Speckmann (the k on Fredrick drops well below the line however) and another is a date in March 1860 (which is probably when the emigration form was signed or when the ship was supposed to leave) and last the word Schinkel was in the record.
 
It appears that this all adds up with information I have on the US side (mostly US Census data) which usually showed his birth date year as 1844 but I think it was always calculated (by subtracting age from the year) rather than given as 1844. Although there is a 10 year gap in the US info and I have not tied the FF Speckman who was on the ship in 1860 to the FF Speckman who lived in SF in 1869. 
 
So it appears that this person is indeed my ggf. I still want to have the document translated to make certain of what is says. 
 
Any ideas about how to go about getting it translated? It contains about 100  or so words and I now have it in a Tiff file format.
 
By the way for those who are interested, here is the cost of the Onsabruck Archive transaction for one record look up:
 
Postage 3 Euros
Copying 1,50 Euros
Research 10 Euros
Packing/Handling 3 Euros
Total  17,50 Euros
 
A bargain!

Thanks to all who have helped me get to this point ? as I stated earlier, I did not think it possible to trace my roots back to this point and it appears that this opens the door for tracing back even further.
 
Thanks again,
 
Barney Speckman(n)

Re: [HN] Personal Ancestral File (formerly Speckman)

Date: 2006/02/17 01:40:41
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>


Dear Listies,

I agree. PAF is the best. Have sampled a few. PAF may not be colorful in appearence but functionality is A+. One can customize reports, create book-form genealogies, include source documentation, index's as well as link images to ones personal database.



From: "Bob Doerr" <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:56:44 -0600

I like Personal Ancestral File; it is good; it is free and help is free at
an 800 number.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Scheele" <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>
To: "'Hannover-L'" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:38 PM
Subject: RE: [HN] Speckmann


> Hi Barney,
>
> I would second Bob. Family Tree Maker has the most marketing behind it,
but
> it is far from being one of the better programs. You might also try Legacy
> which is free and better than Family Tree Maker.
> Paul
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
> > bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Bob Marhenke
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:57 PM
> > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> >
> > Hi Barney,
> >
> > Let me recommend Roots Magic as a program.---Bob
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:51:34 -0500 bmspeckman(a)aol.com writes:
> > > Hi Don,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the info. I have yet to invest in a program but
> > > understand that the Family Tree Maker (I think that is the name) is
> > > one of the better ones.
> > >
> > > Any coments on such programs?
> > >
> > > Barney
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com
> > > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > > Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:38:25 -0500
> > > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Barney,
> > >   .ged is a Gedcom file extension .... a sort of universal
> > > genealogical file
> > > that can be used by most, if not all, genealogical programs.
> > > Don Roddy
> > >
> > > ----- Message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com ---------
> > >   Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:34:52 -0500
> > >   From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
> > > Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> > >  Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > >   To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > >
> > > >
> > > > jb
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the heads up. I have not responded to these - I don't >
> > > remember getting them via the email list.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > jb it appears there is some kind of bulletin board for this list -
> > > > that is news to me I will check it out.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again,
> > > >
> > > > Anybody know what a GED file is?
> > > >
> > > > Barney Speckman
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
> > > > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> > > > Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:30:58 -0800
> > > > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not sure if you have contacted these folks yet Barney (if so
> > > ignore > this). The messages carry today's date though, and pertain
> > > to > Niedersachsen. Can't hurt to check as they say.
> > > >
> > > > Laurie's name and addy I recognize from a different mailing list.
> > > > She's been at the game for some time now, but I'm not sure if I
> > > saw > posts before from her re Speckmanns (could easily have missed
> > > them > though, if that were the case).
> > > >
> > > > Jb
> > > >
> > > > ----------
> > > >
> > > > Message Board URL:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2
> > .1.1.1.2
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Message Board Post:
> > > > Hi - my name is Monna Lienemann. I am hoping that your email is
> > > still > the same. I have sent you a ged com file on the Speckmanns.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Please respond to grammymammy11(a)msn.com
> > > >
> > > > ----------
> > > >
> > > > Message Board URL:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/2986.3133.3143.3148.1.2
> > .1.1.1.3
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Message Board Post:
> > > > Can you tell me wee your Speckmann family originate from. Please >
> > > write directly to me at marilyn(a)mcoster.freeserve.co.uk
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards Laurie
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -
> > > it's > FREE!
> > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> > > >
> > > > ______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > > ______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > >
> > >
> > > ----- End message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com -----
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > >
> > >
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


Re: [HN] Personal Ancestral File

Date: 2006/02/17 02:37:03
From: Don E. Schaefer <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>

If any of you are Macintosh users (like me), you do not have as many choices when looking for genealogy software. But there is one program for Macintosh that is a top notch piece of software. That is Reunion by Leister Productions, Inc. Much as Bill Gates would like to think, the whole world does not revolve around Microsoft, Whatever program you have, be sure to make back up copy daily, or at least those days you make additions or changes.

They used to make PAF for the Macintosh. I started out with PAF for the Apple IIe, and the people out at Salt Lake City made a copy for me to switch over to the Macintosh --- at no charge. I used a GED file to carry that over to Reunion.

Don Schaefer



Dear Listies,

I agree. PAF is the best. Have sampled a few. PAF may not be colorful in appearence but functionality is A+. One can customize reports, create book-form genealogies, include source documentation, index's as well as link images to ones personal database.


From: "Bob Doerr" <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:56:44 -0600

I like Personal Ancestral File; it is good; it is free and help is free at
an 800 number.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Scheele" <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>
To: "'Hannover-L'" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:38 PM
Subject: RE: [HN] Speckmann


 Hi Barney,

 I would second Bob. Family Tree Maker has the most marketing behind it,
but
 it is far from being one of the better programs. You might also try Legacy
 which is free and better than Family Tree Maker.
 Paul

 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
 > bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Bob Marhenke
 > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:57 PM
 > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
 > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
 >
 > Hi Barney,
 > >
 > > Let me recommend Roots Magic as a program.---Bob
 > >
 > >
 > > On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:51:34 -0500 bmspeckman(a)aol.com writes:
 > > > Hi Don,
 > > >
 > > > Thanks for the info. I have yet to invest in a program but
 > > understand that the Family Tree Maker (I think that is the name) is
 > > one of the better ones.
 > >
 > > Any coments on such programs?
 > >
 > > Barney
 > >
 > > -----Original Message-----
 > > From: svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com
 > > To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
 > > Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:38:25 -0500
 > > Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
 > >
 > >
 > > Hi Barney,
 > >   .ged is a Gedcom file extension .... a sort of universal
 > > genealogical file
 > > that can be used by most, if not all, genealogical programs.
 > > Don Roddy
 > >
 > > ----- Message from bmspeckman(a)aol.com ---------
 > >   Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:34:52 -0500
 > >   From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
 > > Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
 > >  Subject: Re: [HN] Speckmann
 > >   To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
 > >
 > > >
 > > > jb
 > > >
 > > > Thanks for the heads up. I have not responded to these - I don't >
 > > remember getting them via the email list.
 > > >
 > > >
 > > > jb it appears there is some kind of bulletin board for this list -
 > > > that is news to me I will check it out.
 > > >
 > > > Thanks again,
 > > >
 > > > Anybody know what a GED file is?
 > > >
 > > > > Barney Speckman

RE: [HN] Fundstck: FEDELER von STELLE

Date: 2006/02/17 03:22:59
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Hallo,

Franklin County Missouri Marriages 1819-1858, Books A & B,

Fechller* 63
Fechtlera* 76
Schumacher 68, 75
Shumaker 22, 26, 36

* Fichtler ???

I respond only of very minute chance of connection to a Missouri family.

There appears (in my amature eyeballs) to be numerous K.O.H. and Westphalia surnames in the Warren, Gasconade, Washington, Franklin and Jefferson counties of Missouri.



From: "Waltraud von Salzen" <waltraud.von.salzen(a)ewetel.net>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] Fundstück:  FEDELER von STELLE
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 17:47:24 +0100

Hier ein neues Fundstück aus dem KB Lunsen

JOHANN FEDELER von Stelle im Ksp.Twistringen heiratet am 21.Mai 1702 SOPHIE
DOROTHEE SCHUMACHER aus Thedinghausen.

Schönes Wochenende
Waltraud


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


[HN] Re: Speckmann

Date: 2006/02/17 13:43:42
From: AJHattorf <AJHattorf(a)aol.com>

 
In einer eMail vom 17.02.2006 12:23:52 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt  
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

They are  hand written forms in German of course in a very fancy script. One 
is a bit  faint. I cannot read German but I can recognize several  clues


 
Hi Barney
 
If you send me that tiff i will try my very best. But i will have no time  
before next monday if that is early enough.
 
And dont care about that birthdate you found at the census datas surely  1844 
is a calculated birth date and your ancestor is born November 1843, that  
fits very well! 
 
Armin


Re: [HN] Re: Speckmann

Date: 2006/02/17 15:30:54
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hallo Armin,
 
Thank you so much for the offer. Monday or when ever you get to it is just fine. (Beggars can't be choosy)
 
I will send to you in separate email soon. I will try to enhance image to make as dark and readable as possible before sending using Photoshop.
 
Thanks again,
 
Barney Speckman
 
-----Original Message-----
From: AJHattorf(a)aol.com
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 07:43:30 EST
Subject: [HN] Re: Speckmann


 
In einer eMail vom 17.02.2006 12:23:52 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt  
hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net:

They are  hand written forms in German of course in a very fancy script. One 
is a bit  faint. I cannot read German but I can recognize several  clues


 
Hi Barney
 
If you send me that tiff i will try my very best. But i will have no time  
before next monday if that is early enough.
 
And dont care about that birthdate you found at the census datas surely  1844 
is a calculated birth date and your ancestor is born November 1843, that  
fits very well! 
 
Armin

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Mistakes in U.S. Federal censuses

Date: 2006/02/17 18:02:53
From: Cheryl Janowiak <cheryljano(a)yahoo.com>

Hi-
   
  Someone recently pointed out to me that some microfilms are of the census records kept at the National Archives, records that were hand copied from the originals.  Because they were hand copied, there exists the chance of numerous mistakes.  I was told to track down microfilms of the originals that are kept at the state level....not sure what is available for each state, but here in Wisconsin, the State Historical Society does have its own microfilm of the originals.  I'm in the process of tracking those down to see if any of the info is different than what I have....but, I was told by someone who already did this, that I would definitely find mistakes.  Just an idea for those that have found confusing things recorded for their family on a census.
   
  -Cheryl (Feind) Janowiak

		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail
 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

Re: [HN] Mistakes in U.S. Federal censuses

Date: 2006/02/17 18:48:34
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi,

     I do believe that the LDS has microfilm of all the U.S. census records
from the original.  However, the National Archives have the index (soundex)
for each state. Those were handwritten on cards, then put on microfilm. I'm
not so sure the LDS has all of those.

Barbara



on 2/17/06 10:02 AM, Cheryl Janowiak at cheryljano(a)yahoo.com wrote:

> Hi-
> 
> Someone recently pointed out to me that some microfilms are of the census
> records kept at the National Archives, records that were hand copied from the
> originals.  Because they were hand copied, there exists the chance of numerous
> mistakes.  I was told to track down microfilms of the originals that are kept
> at the state level....not sure what is available for each state, but here in
> Wisconsin, the State Historical Society does have its own microfilm of the
> originals.  I'm in the process of tracking those down to see if any of the
> info is different than what I have....but, I was told by someone who already
> did this, that I would definitely find mistakes.  Just an idea for those that
> have found confusing things recorded for their family on a census.
> 
> -Cheryl (Feind) Janowiak
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Mistakes in U.S. Federal censuses

Date: 2006/02/17 18:59:45
From: Carol Payne <snowwhite(a)lakewebs.net>

Hello Cheryl and Everyone,

Always be alert for mistakes in any U. S. Census - even the originals!

Remember, the information was given verbally by one human (who might not
have known or remembered correctly), to another human (who may not have
heard or hand-written it correctly).  Immediately, there is the possibly of
a memory problem, a foreign accent problem, a hearing problem, and a
penmanship problem.

And then we have the problems of humans who "transcribe" what was written in
the originals so we can have "indexes" that can be used by "search
engines"..... If the name starts with an "R" and the enumerator's
handwriting made it look like a "B" or a "K" or a "P" to the transcriber,
there's no way the search engine is going to find your name in a transcribed
list when you are searching for an "R", even if you use soundex.

Whether you are using a "transcribed" copy or microfilm of the original, you
must be flexible about the information, especially when it comes to
spellings and dates.  All records are created by humans, and all humans make
mistakes. :-((

Carol Payne  SnowWhite(a)Lakewebs.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cheryl Janowiak" <cheryljano(a)yahoo.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: [HN] Mistakes in U.S. Federal censuses


> Hi-
>
>   Someone recently pointed out to me that some microfilms are of the
census records kept at the National Archives, records that were hand copied
from the originals.  Because they were hand copied, there exists the chance
of numerous mistakes.  I was told to track down microfilms of the originals
that are kept at the state level....not sure what is available for each
state, but here in Wisconsin, the State Historical Society does have its own
microfilm of the originals.  I'm in the process of tracking those down to
see if any of the info is different than what I have....but, I was told by
someone who already did this, that I would definitely find mistakes.  Just
an idea for those that have found confusing things recorded for their family
on a census.
>
>   -Cheryl (Feind) Janowiak
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>  Yahoo! Mail
>  Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>



[HN] [GFW-L] Steinadler3 (fwd)

Date: 2006/02/17 23:04:33
From: Wilfried . Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Liste,

auch ich hatte heute die "Ehre" von dem Herrn von der Aa unter dem Pseudonym "SGH" belästigt zu werden. "Papierkorb!"

MfG
Wilfried Petersen


---Ursprüngliche Nachricht---
From: <DietrichPaulini2(a)aol.com>
To: <gfw-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [GFW-L] Steinadler3

Liebe Mailinglistfreunde,
Heute erhielt ich von einem Freund eine Anfrage, ob ich die Firma
SGH - Stiftung für Genealogie und Heraldik
   c/o Mühlbergstraße 17
   71384 WEINSTADT
kenne. In meiner Info vom 21.03.2005 hatte ich schon darauf hingewiesen, dass 
sich unter der Adresse 
    Steinadler Verlag
c/o Mühlbergstraße 17
71384 Weinstadt
die "Horn GmbH Handelsvertretung" im Ortsteil Schnait als Briefkastenfirma 
verbirgt. Der Herr Wilhelm von der Aa versteht es doch immer, für seine 
wichtigen Ergebnisse der Genealogie und Heraldik eine neue Firma einzurichten. Ich 
kann niemanden davor bewahren, sich mit überflüssigen und veralteten 
Adressenverzeichnissen seines Namens gegen hohe Preise (49,- Euro zum "Vorzugspreis") zu 
versorgen, aber ganz sicher kann die "Stiftung" keine seriöse Genealogie oder 
gar Heraldik erledigen.
Vielleicht kann ein Listenmitglied auch andere Genealogie-Listen über dieser 
Nachricht informieren.
Vielen Dank.
 
Dietrich Paulini
Stuttgarter Str. 33
D 71385 WEINSTADT-Beutelsbach
Tel/Fax 0049-(0)7151-690404
eMail: dietrichpaulini2(a)aol.com
_______________________________________________
Mailingliste für Mitglieder der GFW/BSW
GFW-L(a)genealogy.net
Einstellungen ändern, Archiv, An-/Abmelden:
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/gfw-l
http://www.genealogienetz.de/vereine/GFW/


------


Re: [HN] Speckmann Triangulation

Date: 2006/02/17 23:59:44
From: MagdalenaJLM <MagdalenaJLM(a)aol.com>

Try  Alta Vista <A HREF="http://babelfish.altavista.com/";>AltaVista - Babel Fish Translation</A>                            
           Have a Nice Day!  Jill

I am currently researching the following names:
Barlag,Bochenski,Bogdanski,Bredehoft,Brinkmann,Cawley,Ciesielski,Cieszkiewiez,
Drehs,Dress,Dufelmeyer,Dufelmeier,Fuelling/Fulling,Frese,Fresen,Hunken,Klindtw
orth,Hirschy,Jalonski,Kaminski,Kozielecki,Kozielewski,Kurgan,Leimkuehler,Leime
nkuhler,Lydon,Mazgaj,Mesch,Obyc,Oesterhagen,Ostmeier/Ostmeyer,Obrock,Piechalsk
i,Pieper,Poertner,Pranten,Quell,Rak,Reker,Redecker,Schwetscher,Speckmann,Sprin
ghorn,Thiessecharpen/Thieschaper,Thunhorst,Viel/Viets,Vischer,Winteregg,Wistin
ghausen,Wolers,/Wohlerst,Zinzack, Zynczak,Zinczak
Jill Leimkuehler











(MagdalenaJLM(a)aol.com)

RE: [HN] Mistakes in U.S. Federal censuses

Date: 2006/02/18 00:17:42
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Cheryl Janowiak wrote:

Someone recently pointed out to me that some microfilms are of the census records kept at the National Archives, records that were hand copied from the originals. Because they were hand copied, there exists the chance of numerous mistakes.

This pertains to the indexes, not the originals, just as Barbara noted. The indexing for the most part was accomplished by the WPA (Works Progress Administration) during the mid 1930s and into the early 1940s. The WPA was part of Roosevelt's New Deal package, which sought to employ million workers at a "security wage" doing all sorts of work, from repairing roads to transcribing various government records. As for the massive index undertaking, this served a dual purpose at the time (it had nothing to do with genealogical purposes, which turned out strictly to be a side benefit); it gave a lot of folks desperately seeking work something to do during those lean years, and it allowed the federal government to gather the kind of data (a survey and the qualifying particulars) it needed to implement Roosevelt's grand plan of retirement pensions in the form of Social Security (with all its much-debated pros and cons). A lack of proper or verifiable birth certificates of the would-be applicants assured this found its way to priority status. It is the reason why the 1880 census was only completed in a 'limited' manner, that is, only households in which a child of 10 years or younger were included in the original indexes (as they'd be the ones qualifying to claim Social Security benefits during that time). Any family members born in the 1860s were never eligible for this government program.

I was told to track down microfilms of the originals that are kept at the state level....not sure what is available for each state, but here in Wisconsin, the State Historical Society does have its own microfilm of the originals.

This is incorrect. Each State turned in one copy of their respective census returns to the federal government. The copy they kept themselves were duplicates, and of secondary value when all was said and done (many of these were consequently destroyed, or requisitioned by the U.S. Government years later). These state held copies would have been no different than the ones given initially to the federal branch. However, the states themselves often conducted their own = statewide = censuses for their own purposes, and these generally were taken in between the federal enumerations that by law are effected every 10 years. Many state censuses have never been indexed, and you can be assured any that have been are subject to error rates much like those accomplished earlier by the WPA.

I'm in the process of tracking those down to see if any of the info is different than what I have.... but, I was told by someone who already did this, that I would definitely find mistakes. Just an idea for those that have found confusing things recorded for their family on a census.

I've described some of the various erratum one can expect find in a number of recent posts, beyond what Carol states adroitly in her post today (and Barbara and Guenther in their recent posts also). When put together, these highlight many of the key issues and limitations one needs to be constantly aware of when exploring or sizing up the censuses at face value.

Carol Payne wrote:

Whether you are using a "transcribed" copy or microfilm of the original, you must be flexible about the information, especially when it comes to spellings and dates. All records are created by humans, and all humans make mistakes. :-((

How true how true, but we all need to bear in mind what a blessing these indexes are in the end, whether they pertain to the censuses or anything beyond. Anyone who goes back enough years will recall the days when such index 'helpers' were far leaner and harder to come by, and thus many an afternoon or evening was spent plowing through microfilmed copies of the original records, page by bloody page. Not only have indexes become more plentiful in recent years, overall the transcription quality has improved to a certain degree (though a percentage of errors still appear). Never forget what a great boon these indexes are in all the varying stripes and flavors, since they have made the kinds of rapid strides and findings we see today possible (and almost take for granted now). The latest chapter in this ongoing development, CD collections of the like and online database access via the Internet, is simply the icing on the cake. :-)

Jb

PS. LDS does have copies of all the original census returns (and in more limited variants, many libraries), but to house and distribute the indexes themselves would amount to an enormous undertaking, one that would rival housing the originals themselves. I believe this is the reason why the NARA archives (national as well as regional) are the sole possessors of these complete sets. Of course since the WPA initiative (greatly assisted back then by the Census Bureau, and the consultation of the Rand Corporation which gave us the Soundex and Miracode), different groups have contributed substantially to this core base, starting with the accelerated indexes of AIS in the 70's and 80's, and then LDS itself with the 1880 census "completion" during the early 90's, and now an array of commercial enterprises (Broderbund, et al) employing massive database cataloguing to the benefit of one and all.

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


RE: [HN] Census Mistakes PS

Date: 2006/02/18 01:16:03
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Jb: How true how true, but we all need to bear in mind what a blessing these indexes are in the end, whether they pertain to the censuses or anything beyond.

And it goes without saying, the CENSUSES themselves. Census records remain the bread and butter of American side genealogies, even if fraught with anomalies. In some ways these irregularities increase the overall "challenge", and makes each discovery more delightful (at least to me). Adds a little "spice" to the mix in the end. ;) The same can probably be said for other English speaking nations (U.K., Canada, Australia, etc.).

On the other hand, I would have to imagine the percentage of errors would be lessened in more homogeneous populations, like that which would have been found in Germany and England years back. Not as many names would appear 'foreign' to the enumerators (except perhaps the Polish or Gallic). :-)

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement


Re: [HN] Mistakes in U.S. Federal censuses

Date: 2006/02/18 03:15:16
From: mmongoose <mmongoose(a)tds.net>

The census does well what it is designed to do - It locates a person being in a particular area at a particular time. With this information, one knows where and when to look for more accurate information. Of course even in this limited area, there are mistakes. I am sure we all have someone who MUST have been there, but cant be found. Other people may be counted more than once. Often a teenage son who worked as a farm hand for another family might be listed both in that family and with his own, There are also cases where there is duplication as though the enumerator went around the block twice or misunderstood the boundaries of his territory.

If one "does" genealogy partly for the love the the puzzle and the chase, the census is an excellent game. One can map migrating ancestors across the country by seeing where/when their children were born. The same information helps to distinguish families of siblings who both gave the same names to their children from one another - and perhaps to establish a helpful "naming pattern". It gives useful "negative" evidence as in trying to find an unknown ancestor among a group of "Smith" families in a known area -- when some of them can be eliminated because they have no children of the proper age.

It is amazing how much fun and information the census can provide - not precise information, but a wealth of "pointers".

Barbara Rice

"HANNOVER" -- REMSTEDT/ RHEMSTEADT in Bruchausen / SEVEUS (Severs?) / LUERTKE / LULLMANN / HOMFELD /

"IDAR OBERSTEIN BIRKENFELD" -- SCHNEIDER SCHMIDT KELLER BOHRER

Re: [HN] Mistakes in U.S. Federal censuses

Date: 2006/02/18 04:51:59
From: Don E. Schaefer <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>

If they had just known how important the census records were to genealogists to day, they would have collected better information for us.

And if our forefathers had better foresight, they would have buried people in alphabetical order.

We just have to be thankful for what they did leave us!

Don Schaefer

[HN] WG: [Saar] STEINADLER unter neuem Namen unterwegs

Date: 2006/02/18 12:49:59
From: Ralf G. Jordan <ahnen(a)rgjordan.de>

Hallo Liste, 
über die Saar und Pfalz Liste erhielt ich folgende (m.E. schlechte)
Nachricht. 
Euch allen zur Kenntnis
---es folgt jetzt der Text .....
Liebe Mailinglistenfreunde,
Heute erhielt ich von einem Freund eine Anfrage, ob ich die Firma
SGH-Stifung für Genealogie und Heraldik c/o. Mühlbergstr. 17, 71384
Weinstadt kenne. In meiner Info v.  21.3.2005 hatte ich schon darauf
hingewiesen, dass sich unter der Adresse Steinadler - Verlag c/o
Mühlbergstraße 17 71384 Weinstadt die 'Horn GmbH Handelsvertretung'
i.Ortsteil Schnait als  Briefkastenfirma verbirgt. Der Herr Wilhelm von der
Aa versteht es doch immer wieder,  für seine wichtigen Ergebnisse der
Genealogie und Heraldik eine neue Firma  einzurichten.Ich kann niemanden
davor bewahren, sich mit überflüssigen und veralteten
Adressenverzeichnissen seines Namens gegen hohe PReise (49.-Euro zum
'Vorzugspreis')  zu versorgen, aber ganz sicher kann die 'Stiftung' keine
seriöse Genealogie  oder gar Heraldik erledigen. Vielleicht kann ein
Listenmitglied auch andere  Genealogie-Listen über diese Nachricht
informieren.
vielen Dank
Dietrich Pauli
Stuttgarter Str. 33
72385 Weinstadt-Beutelsbach
Tel./Fax 0049 - (0)7151-690404
---- Dös wars ---

Schönes Wochenende

Ralf

 
_______________________________________________
Saarland-L mailing list
Saarland-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/saarland-l


[HN] Census Mistakes PS: Stolta,Tiamah, Gernter, etc ?

Date: 2006/02/18 14:46:12
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi,
Jb hazards a guess that English census would have less incorrect entries but
out of a household of 12 musicians, boarders and servants in an 1861 census
there is not one correct surname spelling.  It is obvious the English ear
could not understand the accent of Hannoverians.  I'll list the names in
case anyone wants to claim an ancestor :-

Andrew BEALSTINE  (Andreas BIELSTEIN) (45) musician with 4 apprentices
Malsena Bealstine     (Melosine BIELSTEIN) (46) wife
Mena Bealstine         (Mina BIELSTEIN) (19) daughter
Amandus Bealstine     (Amandus BIELSTEIN) (17) son
Charlotte Bealstine     (Charlotte BIELSTEIN) (15) daughter
Mary Bealstine             (Marie BIELSTEIN) (10) daughter
*Henry Haler ....            (Heinrich EHLERS) (22) Musician
Hannah Maria BIELSTON** (Hannah Marie BIELSTEIN) (22) dau-in-law (geb.Gruen)
ALIGENT (!) STOLTA             (- ? -  STOLTE?) (17) apprentice musician
Henry Gernter** ...             (Heinrich GUENTHER) (16) apprentice musician
Abrusphor TIAMAH (!)     (- ? - THIEMAN?) (15) apprentice musician
Ernst GRUMTHAN (!)  ....     (Ernst  - ?????)     (15) apprentice musician

The last two teenage residents were obviously a challenge to listen to and I
don't think 'Abrusphor' is written on any baptism record!

*Heinrich Ehlers (22) musician, also appeared overnight in the local prison
cell.
**Gruen family from Salzgitter area
**Guenther family from Merlau Darmstadt.

This census entry was only found after much inventive search criteria.

Regards,
Rena in England
researching FLAMME (FLEMME); EHLERS; MOELM
==

From: "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [HN] Census Mistakes PS
Jb: How true how true, but we all need to bear in mind what a blessing
these indexes are in the end, whether they pertain to the censuses or
anything beyond.

And it goes without saying, the CENSUSES themselves. Census records remain
the bread and butter of American side genealogies, even if fraught with
anomalies. In some ways these irregularities increase the overall
"challenge", and makes each discovery more delightful (at least to me). Adds
a little "spice" to the mix in the end. ;) The same can probably be said for
other English speaking nations (U.K., Canada, Australia, etc.).

On the other hand, I would have to imagine the percentage of errors would be
lessened in more homogeneous populations, like that which would have been
found in Germany and England years back. Not as many names would appear
'foreign' to the enumerators (except perhaps the Polish or Gallic). :-)



Re: [HN] Mistakes in U.S. Federal censuses

Date: 2006/02/18 18:51:21
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Don,   
       How absolutely hilarious!  I wish I could think of remarks like that.
Barbara



on 2/17/06 8:52 PM, Don E. Schaefer at dschaefe(a)uark.edu wrote:

> If they had just known how important the census records were to
> genealogists to day, they would have collected better information for
> us.
> 
> And if our forefathers had better foresight, they would have buried
> people in alphabetical order.
> 
> We just have to be thankful for what they did leave us!
> 
> Don Schaefer
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] V.Schwenke

Date: 2006/02/18 20:08:26
From: Pschwenkedu <Pschwenkedu(a)aol.com>

Hallo liebe Listenfreunde !
Ich suche Personendaten und Familie zu:
Karl Ludwig von Schwenke heiratet am 28.11.1819 in Hannover  
Maria Theresa von Sydow.
Hinweis aus IgI und Film 177919.
Wer kann raten ?
MfG 
Paul(Schwenke)

Re: [HN] Census Mistakes PS: Stolta,Tiamah, Gernter, etc ?

Date: 2006/02/18 21:45:19
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"Rena McCarthy" <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk> schrieb:
....
> Ernst GRUMTHAN (!)  ....     (Ernst  - ?????)     (15) apprentice musician
...
> Regards,
> Rena in England

Hello Rena McCarthy,

there are given names GRUMT and GRUMMT. Did you check, if "HAN" might be part of another word ?
Imaginable is "HAN" for Hannover as also a cutoff "HANS". Just a guess, if "GRÜNTHAL" or "GRÜNTHANER" and "GRÜNTHANNER" - also given names for example in Nürnberg - are far off any interpretation.

Greetings Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

Re: [HN] Mistakes in U.S. Federal censuses

Date: 2006/02/19 02:44:29
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Listies,

A belated Valentine...:)

If ^ was responsible for creating the alphabet...I would have put U and I together...

Seriously..

On mistakes.

I don't believe necessarily that the census is mistaken..its that hand-written records can be hard to decifer. Not hard to decifer..Are hard to decifer. Often.

The 1870 Missouri Federal Census lists my grandfathers surname.

Phelthouse vrs. Feldhaus.

A spelling mistake? Perhaps.

Person who wrote the information spelled name as was taught. "Ph"eld and "Feld" sound alike....and I almost think think that cursive handwritting "Ph" and "F" may sometimes also look similar depending on ones own handwritting and ability to decifer other peoples handwritting....esp when written 100 or so years ago.

Barbie-Lew






From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Mistakes in U.S. Federal censuses
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:50:53 -0700

Don,
How absolutely hilarious! I wish I could think of remarks like that.
Barbara



on 2/17/06 8:52 PM, Don E. Schaefer at dschaefe(a)uark.edu wrote:

> If they had just known how important the census records were to
> genealogists to day, they would have collected better information for
> us.
>
> And if our forefathers had better foresight, they would have buried
> people in alphabetical order.
>
> We just have to be thankful for what they did leave us!
>
> Don Schaefer
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


Re: [HN] Mistakes in U.S. Federal censuses

Date: 2006/02/19 03:21:40
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Listies,

What I love most about genealogy is family stories.  Love family stories.

Family are the people I love.

Ancestors are the great-grandparents, great-great grandparents, uncles, aunts and cousins of the people I love.

A friend of my ancestor is a friend of mine.

I am interested the ancestors of my own ancestors neighbors because even the tiniest common bond brings me closer to the people I love.

Barbie-Lew

From: mmongoose <mmongoose(a)tds.net>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Mistakes in U.S. Federal censuses
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:15:07 -0500

The census does well what it is designed to do - It locates a person being in a particular area at a particular time. With this information, one knows where and when to look for more accurate information.

Of course even in this limited area, there are mistakes. I am sure we all have someone who MUST have been there, but cant be found. Other people may be counted more than once. Often a teenage son who worked as a farm hand for another family might be listed both in that family and with his own, There are also cases where there is duplication as though the enumerator went around the block twice or misunderstood the boundaries of his territory.

If one "does" genealogy partly for the love the the puzzle and the chase, the census is an excellent game. One can map migrating ancestors across the country by seeing where/when their children were born. The same information helps to distinguish families of siblings who both gave the same names to their children from one another - and perhaps to establish a helpful "naming pattern". It gives useful "negative" evidence as in trying to find an unknown ancestor among a group of "Smith" families in a known area -- when some of them can be eliminated because they have no children of the proper age.

It is amazing how much fun and information the census can provide - not precise information, but a wealth of "pointers".

Barbara Rice

"HANNOVER" -- REMSTEDT/ RHEMSTEADT in Bruchausen / SEVEUS (Severs?) / LUERTKE / LULLMANN / HOMFELD /

"IDAR OBERSTEIN BIRKENFELD"  --  SCHNEIDER   SCHMIDT  KELLER  BOHRER

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963


RE: [HN] RAHENKAMP family

Date: 2006/02/19 03:38:43
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Hiya,

Just wanted to make a comment.

"The reason we suspect/assume other siblings is because we need a "connection". At this point, there are three distinct Rahenkamp branches who have immigrated to America, and we are all lacking "the common denominator"

I think I assume other siblings is because ...

Lack of birth control.

I think I suspect possibility of various wives....

Lack of antibiotics. Childbirth fever. Smallpox..etc.

Shorter lives in the 19th century.

Barbie-Lew


From: "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: RE: [HN] RAHENKAMP family
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 17:27:57 -0800

Carol wrote:

Both - but I believe I've found just about everything stateside, and that's why I wrote to the Hannover list.

Though I know what you mean in general, remember it's never the case. There is always something more that can be found.

A reminder also: will and probate records are not always linked by local jurisdiction filing protocols. Hard to believe but true. So generally you ought to think of those two record types as separate when it comes to locating them. Often a will may be referenced or cited in the probate record, but you may find no copy of it is included in the probate docket/dossier itself. It is also not unusual to see wills duly recorded at the local level, but never proceed into probate (for various reasons). And on and on the irregularities go, especially the further back you go.

However, where the 1860 U.S. census did not show "relationships", it's probably safe to assume that the additional 3 year old boy born in New Jersey and listed in the household, was their son.

Generally speaking that would be a safe assumption until something comes along to disprove it. The percentages are greatly in your favor in any case.

[Which brings me to a whole other research project - neither the son nor the father are shown in the 1870 census, but the father is back in the 1880 census. I haven't found any death information on the son, nor does he seem to be in the cemetery with the rest of the family. And since the father is back in the 1880 census, I'm wondering if perhaps he made a trip back to Germany - perhaps to bury the son there, or just to see that he was included in the family church records.... or maybe Adam just went back to bring other children to America....?]

Is this all at the same residence, or on the same property? Another reason land deeds and transfers can be revealing in filling in certain informational gaps. The son could very likely have died, and death/burial/cemetery information back at that time would be hit and miss at best. Not sure if this is a city dwelling or farm locale, but if the latter, the child might have been buried on the property itself. Do you = know = Adam went back to Germany at some point? During the 19th century, a return trip to Germany would be most unusual. Not unheard of, just unlikely due to the expense and distance. To take a child back to bury on German soil would be a very very unlikely scenario. I would also think it rather unusual for children to be left behind in Germany when a perspective couple came over together with at least one child in tow (again not impossible, just nothing to hold your breath on). As for the father missing in one particular census, it could be he was out of town visiting someone, or staying with family or friends, or else working out of the area (possibly with his 13 year old son). The census taker may have felt he/they would be picked up elsewhere in the enumeration process and requested just the present and accountable inhabitants of the dwelling. There has always been some inconsistencies in this regard when it comes to the US censuses. It's one reason that you occasionally find the same person listed in two places at once (assuming they didn't relocate between the time the respective census takers came knocking). And as you quickly learn, some census takers took their job a lot more seriously than others. A few were downright shoddy in their work.

Now by 1880, the same "missing" [?] son would be 23, and may have been on his own if he didn't die earlier. Always check high and low!

As for Adam having siblings.... I'm sure you're correct - the church records should have the answer. I'm just sorry that the other researcher only made note of Anna's christening.

Right, but let's not forget she may have been an only child also. There could have been a whole slew of reasons why this would be the case, even if larger families were 'par for the course' back then.

The reason we suspect/assume other siblings is because we need a "connection". At this point, there are three distinct Rahenkamp branches who have immigrated to America, and we are all lacking "the common denominator".

Understand. Hopefully the local church records will bear this out. Only don't lose sight of the fact that the name connection could predate this particular generation (if there's one to be had at all). If the three branches you speak of all come from the same general vicinity in Germany, you have a much greater likelihood to 'make' this connection you're seeking, as I'm sure you're aware.

THANK YOU for your response to my query. It definitely helped to clear my thinking and provide additional avenues for further research!

Keep trucking! ;)

Jb

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


[HN] Saarbruecken

Date: 2006/02/19 04:46:51
From: Lila Burmeister <lila(a)meekercoop.net>



Juergen Heinrich Christoph Backhaus was killed on the battlefield at Saarbruecken on Aug. 6, 1870. There is a monument in the cemetery in Natendorf honoring him and another young man from the community who were killed.

I recently met with a cousin who has a medal that she believes was received by Juergen's mother. I found a medal like it on the internet, called a Franco/Prussian War 1870 War service medal, combatants issue. The medal has always been kept with a picture of Kaiser Wilhelm II and his family.

Could Jueergen have been part of the Prussian Third Army that was commanded by then Crown Prince Frederich Wilhelm? Are the Battle of Worth and the Battle of Spicheren the same? Were there other battles fought on August 6?

We're wondering if any of the historians out there can give us some thoughts/ideas.

A note about meeting my cousin (her grandfather and my great grandmother were sister and brother) -- I was given her name many years ago as someone who had some Backhaus history. I put the note with her address in a box with my genealogy information, as I wasn't doing any research at that time. I came across the name again this winter, sent her a letter and had a great meeting last weekend. So, as mentioned in the Ottenstein and Jürgen Ritter posts last week, be sure to contact everyone you can find out about in your family!

Lila

[HN] Census Mistakes PS: Stolta,Tiamah, Gernter, etc ?

Date: 2006/02/19 08:31:39
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hallo Hans Peter,
It is an interesting suggestion that 'Han'(over) is part of the surname but the column for the place of birth (Hanover) is after the 'occupation' column. Out of curiosity, I have looked for a marriage for Ernst/Ernest during the years 1862-1887 in the census town of Hull, England. There is currently no surname published beginning with "G" which made me pause for thought.

I did not think to Anglicize the name of "GRÜNTHAL" to GREENHALL, which is now associated with English beer.

Cheers,
Rena
=

"Rena McCarthy" <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk> schrieb:
....
Ernst GRUMTHAN (!)  ....     (Ernst  - ?????)     (15) apprentice musician
...
Regards,
Rena in England

Hello Rena McCarthy,

there are given names GRUMT and GRUMMT. Did you check, if "HAN" might be part of another word ? Imaginable is "HAN" for Hannover as also a cutoff "HANS". Just a guess, if "GRÜNTHAL" or "GRÜNTHANER" and "GRÜNTHANNER" - also given names for example in Nürnberg - are far off any interpretation.

Greetings Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel



[HN] Mitteilungen des Vereins für schaumburg-li ppische Geschichte, Altertümer und Landeskunde

Date: 2006/02/19 10:53:50
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>

 Liebe Hannoveraner

Ich bin auf der Suche dieser Arbeit:


 Ulmenstein, Christian Freiherr von Die Offiziere des schaumburg-lippischen
Truppenkorps 1648-1867 (=Mitteilungen des Vereins für schaumburg-lippische
Geschichte, Altertümer und Landeskunde 8) Berlin 1940.

  Insbesondere bin ich an der Erwähnung der Aufstellung des
shaumburg-lippischen Bundeskontingents als Verstarkung der Bundesfestung
Luxemburg 1830-31 und der Mobilmachung vom Jahre 1859 interessiert.

Hat einer von Euch vielleicht dieses Buch und könnte für mich kopieren?
Selbstverständlich bezahle ich die Gebühren gerne!

mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss

--
David Müldner


--
David Müldner

[HN] Deutsches Geschlechter Buch Bd. 73 - 80

Date: 2006/02/19 11:30:46
From: Harald Kemm <harald.kemm(a)freenet.de>

Liebe Listenmitglieder,

durch eine Doppelbestellung habe ich die CD 10  DGB Band 73 - 80 doppelt.

Aus diesem Grund biete ich die CD zu einem Preis von 25,00 € zum Verkauf an.
Der Originalpreis liegt im Abo bei 35,00 €. Interessenten wenden sich bitte
an meine u.a. Adresse.

Einen schönen Sonntag noch aus Barsinghausen wünscht allen Listenteilnehmern

Harald Kemm
harald.kemm(a)freenet.de



[HN] Deutsches Geschlechterbuch CD 10 Bd. 73 - 80

Date: 2006/02/19 16:07:56
From: Harald Kemm <harald.kemm(a)freenet.de>

Hallo Listenteilnehmer,

die CD 10 DGB Bd. 73 - 80 ist verkauft.

Vielen Dank für das gezeigte Interesse.


MfG
Harald Kemm


Re: [HN] Saarbruecken

Date: 2006/02/19 18:54:37
From: Fred Buck <fredbuck(a)sprynet.com>

Lila,

The battle of Spicheren is the battle that was fought in the vincinity of
Saarbruecken on 6 Aug 1870.  This battle was fought by elements of the 1st
German army that was commanded by General Carl Friedrich von Steinmetz from
Prussia and the 2nd German army that was commanded by Prince Friedrich Carl,
the nephew of King Wilhelm of Prussia.

An advanced contingent of the French army had occupied the hills on the
south bank across the Saar River from Saarbruecken on 1 Aug.  On 5 Aug.
these troops were pulled back to a somewhat more defensible position on the
next ridge to the south, just north of the French town of Spicheren.  The
next day this position was attacked by the leading division of the 1st
German army, which was advancing south from the city of Trier on the Mosel
River.  The attack was later joined by other divisions of the 1st German
army and also by division from the 2nd German army, which was advancing
southwest from Mainz and Bingen on the Rhine River.  The French troops
outfought the Germans during the day of 6 Aug, inflicting 4,500 causalities
while only receiving 2,000, but eventually were forced to retreat that night
because they did not receive reinforcements.

As you stated in your posting, the 3rd German army was commanded by Crown
Prince Friedrich Wilhelm of Prussia.  This army consisted of mostly soldiers
from Bavaria, Wuerttemberg, Baden and Hesse-Darmstadt in southern Germany
and had mobilized in and around the towns of  Speyer and Landau in the
Pfalz, then a province of Bavaria.  The army advanced south from Landau into
the French Alsace on 4 Aug and on 6 Aug made contact with elements of the
French 1st Corps commanded by General Patrice MacMahon near the Alsace towns
of Woerth and Froeschwiller.  The Germans were ultimately successful,
inflicting about 11,000 casualities on the French and capturing another
9,000 prisoners.

The battles of Spicheren and Woerth/Froeschwiller were the first major
battles of the Franco-Prussian War.

My best regards,

Fred Buck
Cincinnati, Ohio


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lila Burmeister" <lila(a)meekercoop.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:46 PM
Subject: [HN] Saarbruecken




Juergen Heinrich Christoph Backhaus was killed on the battlefield at
Saarbruecken on Aug. 6, 1870.  There is a monument in the cemetery in
Natendorf honoring him and another young man from the community who
were killed.

I recently met with a  cousin who has a medal that she believes was
received by Juergen's mother.  I found a medal like it on the
internet, called a Franco/Prussian War 1870 War service medal,
combatants issue.  The medal has always been kept with a picture of
Kaiser Wilhelm II and his family.

Could Jueergen have been part of the Prussian Third Army that was
commanded by then Crown Prince Frederich Wilhelm?  Are the Battle of
Worth and the Battle of Spicheren the same?  Were there other battles
fought on August 6?

We're wondering if any of the historians out there can give us some
thoughts/ideas.

A note about meeting my cousin (her grandfather and my great
grandmother were sister and brother) -- I was given her name many
years ago as someone who had some Backhaus history.  I put the note
with her address in a box with my genealogy information, as I wasn't
doing any research at that time.  I came across the name again this
winter, sent her a letter and had a great meeting last weekend.   So,
as mentioned in the Ottenstein and Jürgen Ritter posts last week, be
sure to contact everyone you can find out about in your family!

Lila______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



Re: [HN] Deutsches Geschlechterbuch CD 10 Bd. 73 - 80

Date: 2006/02/20 16:18:40
From: Wolfgang Ewig <ewig1(a)t-online.de>

Hallo
auch ich habe eine CD vom Starkeverlag, auf denen die Deutschen
Geschlechterbücher 73-80 vorhanden sind, abzugeben. Diese CD kann man
nutzen, auch wenn das gewünschte nicht gleich geöffnet wird. Über das
Register habe ich die Familien aufrufen können.
Diese CD wurde vom Verlag herausgegeben, aber später von einder anderen CD
ersetzt.
Also, wenn Interesse besteht, gebe ich diese auch zu 25 Euro ab.
Viele Grüße
Wolfgang Ewig

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Harald Kemm" <harald.kemm(a)freenet.de>
To: "Compgend-L" <compgend-l(a)genealogy.net>
Cc: <Militaer-L(a)genealogy.net>; <NLF(a)genealogy.net>;
<hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>; "FamNord" <famnord(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:08 PM
Subject: [HN] Deutsches Geschlechterbuch CD 10 Bd. 73 - 80


> Hallo Listenteilnehmer,
>
> die CD 10 DGB Bd. 73 - 80 ist verkauft.
>
> Vielen Dank für das gezeigte Interesse.
>
>
> MfG
> Harald Kemm
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



[HN] Lüneburg, Hildesheim, Hameln, Brauns chweig, Einbeck, Hannover

Date: 2006/02/21 18:04:27
From: Klaus Riecken <klaus(a)riecken-online.de>

 Liebe Listenmitglieder,

ich stelle mich neu vor:
Klaus Riecken, 55 Jahre alt, ständig auf der Suche nach Informationen über Vorfahren, nicht nur Daten!
Seit Jahren stelle ich meine Informationen online unter 
www.Riecken-online.de

Jeder kann sich einen Überblick verschaffen.

Hauptsächlich geht es um die Bereiche
Lüneburg, Hildesheim, Hameln, Braunschweig, Einbeck, Hannover 

Über Ergänzungen, Kritik, Anmerkungen, Hinweise auf Fehler u.s.w. freut sich

Klaus Riecken
Volgershall 114

21339 Lüneburg

 

Tel. 04131 6803322

 

E-mail: Klaus(a)Riecken-online.de



www.Riecken-online.de - Familienforschung



http://mitglied.lycos.de/kriecken/ - Heimatforschung


[HN] OELFEN, Pastor

Date: 2006/02/21 19:41:57
From: Klaus Riecken <klaus(a)riecken-online.de>

 
Lieb Listenteilnehmer,

In der Zeitung "Zwischen Elbe und Weser" 9/1935 wird folgender Artikel
veröffentlicht:
Regimentschirurgus Johann Friedrich Jakob Erythropel, der erste Arzt in
Basbeck (Lebenslauf des genannten).
In einer Fußnote Nr 9 steht:

Über den Pastor Oelfen, der als Feldprediger des hannoverschen Heeres mit in
den Türkenkrieg zog, und über diesen Türkenkrieg selbst berichtet, berichtet
"Niedersachsen", 1911, Nr 2, ausführlich.

DIESE ANGABE IST FALSCH! Dort ist der Bericht nicht zu finden.
Hat jemand Kenntnisse über diesen Bericht des Pastors Oelfen?

Kann mir jemand diesen Artikel übermitteln?

Viele Grüße und vielen DankKlaus Riecken

[HN] HANSTEDT, MUNK, MUUß,POSTEL,VOIGT, MÜLLE R,BÖHMKE,BOTHMANN,CLAUSSEN,FEDDERSEN,FE LDHUSEN,FÖLSTER,SCHLÜTER,GERDTS,IMMER ,OLTMANN, REIMERS,SPECKMANN,STOFFREGEN,WE STERMANN,BIEDERSTÄDT,NAGEL,KLÄHRE, SCHREIBER

Date: 2006/02/21 21:58:21
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

Kleine Fundsache or Little Finding

aus : NIEDERSACHSENBUCH 1928, hrsg. v. Rchard HERMES und Albrecht JANSSEN, 12.Jg. Richard Hermes Verlag Hamburg Berlin Leipzig 1927, S.147/8 :

" Verzeichnis der  Geistlichen, die plattdeutsche Predigten halten. (translation: Directory of priests who deliver lectures in Low-German ):

...
A.Berichtigungen (Translation: Corrections (of earlier published dates))

Schleswig-Holstein:
- HANSTEDT, Arnold, Pastor in Emmelsbüll (Kr. Tondern), geb. 6.5.1888 in Krempe 
               (Kr.Steinburg)
- MUNK, Franz, Pstor i.R. in Flensburg (St.Marien), geb. 27.8.1860 in Hainholz bei Elmshorn 
              (Kr.Pinneberg)
- MUUß, Rudolf, Dr. phil, Pastor in Tating (Eiderstedt), geb. 24.4.1892 in Meldorf 
              (Süderdithmarschen)
- Postel, Pastor in Hemme, geb.14.4.1893 in Friedrichskoog i. D.

Mecklenburg-Schwerin:
- VOIGT, Wilhelm, Pastor in Schwaan, geb. 28.1.1865 in Telschow (Amt Wismar)

Pommern:
- MÜLLER, Ernst, Pastor in Stettin(St.Lucas), geb. 24.10.1869 in Gingst(Kr.Rügen) 

B: Ergänzungen: (Transaltion: supplements)

Schleswig-Holstein:
- BÖHMKE, Gustav, Pastor in Heiligenhafen (Holstein), Thulboden 13, geb. 22.7.1888 in 
               Albersdorf (Kr.Süderdithmarschen)
- BOTHMANN, Bernhard, Pastor in Wandsbek, Volksdorfer Str. 138, geb. 4.6.1884 in Wandsbek
- CLAUSSEN, Hans, Hauptpastor in Sandesneben (Lauenburg), geb. 14.12.1890 in Busenwurth (Kr.       
               Süderdithmarschen)
- FEDDERSEN, Johannes, Missionsinspektor in Altona-Othmarschen, geb. 5.12.1884 in RÜBBEL (Kr. 
               Rendsburg)
- FÖLSTER, Heinrich, Pastor in Neuendorf (Holstein), geb. 16.3.1894 in Willenscharen 
               (Kr.Steinburg)
- SCHLÜTER, Johannes Christian, Pastor in Bornhöved bei Plön, geb. 11.9.in Löptien (Kr. Plön)

Hannover:
- GERDTS, Georg August, Pastor in Artlenburg, geb. 7.1.1895 in Lüdingworth (Kr.Hadeln)
- IMMER, Hermann, Pastor in Emden, Otto-ten-Brook-Straße10, geb.10.11.1889 in Manslagt 
                (Kr.Emden)
- OLTMANN, Heinrich, Pastor in Loga, geb. 29.12.1892 in Weener (Kr.Weener)
- REIMERS, Heinrich, Dr., Pastor in Loga, geb. 9.4.1879 in Aurich
- SPECKMANN, Diedrich, Pastor a. D.,Schriftsteller in Fischerhude (Bz. Bremen),geb. 12.2.1872                
                 in Hermannsburg (Kr. Celle)
- STOFFREGEN, Heinrich, Pastor in Groß-Hehlen (Celle), geb. 9.4.1862 in Salzdetfurth(Kr. 
                 Marienburg in Hannover)
- WESTERMANN, Petrus, Pastor in Leer, Kirchstr. 16,geb. 25.5.1872 in Borssum (Kr. Hildesheim)

Brandenburg:
- BIEDERSTÄDT, Paul, Superintendent in Prenzlau, Klosterstrasse 23, geb. 29 .12.1861 in 
                 Polzow (Kr. Prenzlau)
- NAGEL, Karl, Dr. phil., Pastor in Prenzlau, Klosterstr. 13, geb. 8.9.1889 in Friedensfelde
                 (Kr. Templin)

Sachsen:
- KLAEHRE, Boto, Pastor in Ahlum (Kr. Salzwedel), geb. 3.12 .1867 in Eberswalde

Mecklenburg-Strelitz:
- SCHREIBER, Hans Henning, Pastor in Schönberg, geb. 1.10.1894 in Wulkenzin bei Neubranden-
                   burg
...."

Für die Pastorenforschung kann der Hinweis auf die niederdeutschen Predigten eine Ergänzung zum Wissen über die jeweiligen Pastoren sein, ihre Erwähnung in dem Jahresband zur nieder-deutschen Literatur dokumentiert die Bemühungen in der 1.Hälfte des 20.Jhdts. zur Wahrung dieser Sprachkultur in einer Welt die sich ansonsten schon vollständig auf das Hochdeutsche umgestellt hat. Für den Genealogen ist hilfreich, dass die Geburtsdaten angegeben sind und somit Anknüpfungspunkte bietet. 

translation: For the Research of Pastorship the hint of Low German lectures might be a completion of knowledge about the different priests, their mentioning in the yearbook for Low German literature is a documentation of the trials in the first Half of the 20th century of keeping this culture of speech in a world which otherwards already completely had changed to High German language. For the Genealogist it is helpful, that the birthdates are given and so  connecting links.

So good Luck und viel Glück in finding some useful news 

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

[HN] Glenewinkel aus Hildesheim/Nienburg

Date: 2006/02/21 23:21:08
From: Claudia Nolte-Schwarting <nolte-schwarting(a)gmx.de>

Hallo,

ich bin neu auf dieser Liste und möchte mich kurz vorstellen. Mein
Name ist Claudia Nolte-Schwarting. Ich wohne in Nordenham. Ich
interessiere mich hauptsächlich für die Familie Schwarting aus
Oldenburg, die aber auch "Ableger" ins Hannoversche hat.

Ich suche Vorfahren von

Carl Johannes Georg GLENEWINKEL * 5 Juni 1853 in Hildesheim (Vater war
ein Tischler oder Schneider in Hildesheim, Mutter Caroline Bruns)

oo 26. Dez. 1875 in Osternburg (bei Oldenburg)
Luise Schwarting * 14 Jun 1850 Oldenburg.

Das Ehepaar hatte vier in Osternburg geborenen Kinder und verzog
später nach Nienburg. Dort gründete C.J.Georg Glenewinkel einen
Verlag (Nienburger Anzeiger), der später eine Zweigstelle in
Stolzenau hatte, wo sein Sohn das "Stolzenauer Wochenblatt" herausgab.

Die Abkömmlinge von drei Kindern (Georg, Hans und Elli) sind mir bekannt.

Wer weiß etwas über Gustav Paul Theodor Glenewinkel * 8.Dez.1886 in
Osternburg + 18. Jul. 1822 Nienburg, verheiratet (mit wem?), Abkömmlinge
unbekannt, (beim Todesfall eingetragen als "Buchdruckereibesitzer in
Nienburg)?

Gruß aus der Wesermarsch
Claudia Nolte-SchwartinH
mailto:nolte-schwarting(a)gmx.de


[HN] Artikel: Baumeister Götze - Kirchenbauer in Norddeutschlan

Date: 2006/02/22 08:58:22
From: guenter . bassen <guenter.bassen(a)arcor.de>

Liebe Listenteilnehmer,

in der Rotenburger Rundschau gab es am 17.02.2006 folgenden Artikel zu lesen:

Die Scheeßeler Kirche und ihr Baumeister Götze - Dieter Ulrich hat nach den Ahnen seiner Familie geforscht 


Dieser Artikel ist unter 
http://www.rotenburger-rundschau.de/index.php?menu=55&command=showartikel&ID=42923&such=g%F6tze
nachzulesen.

Viele Grüße     Günter


Günter Bassen
Westend 6
27419 Klein Meckelsen

Suche in ganz Deutschland:  Bassen, Jagels
Suche in Windershusen (Ksp. Selsingen): Meyer
Suche in Lerbach bei Osterode am Harz:  Oppermann

Klein Meckelsen: 2001 Bundessieger "Unser Dorf soll schöner werden"
http://www.klein-meckelsen.de/


Viel oder wenig? Schnell oder langsam? Unbegrenzt surfen + telefonieren
ohne Zeit- und Volumenbegrenzung? DAS TOP ANGEBOT JETZT bei Arcor: günstig
und schnell mit DSL - das All-Inclusive-Paket für clevere Doppel-Sparer,
nur  44,85 €  inkl. DSL- und ISDN-Grundgebühr!
http://www.arcor.de/rd/emf-dsl-2

[HN] Ahnenforschung WOLTERSDORF

Date: 2006/02/22 13:15:00
From: Burkhard Woltersdorf <burkhard_woltersdorf(a)web.de>




Hallo und guten Tag,

da ich neu auf dieser Liste bin, möchte ich mich kurz vorstellen. Mein Name ist Burkhard Woltersdorf und ich lebe in Hannover. Geboren bin ich 1956 in Dollbergen / Region Hannover. Meine väterlichen Vorfahren lebten in den letzten zweihundert Jahren z.B. in Peine, Gifhorn, Wedesbüttel und Meine. Die nachweisbaren Wurzeln gehen aber in die Altmark (Sachsen Anhalt) zurück. 

Für meine Nachforschungen suche ich alle verfügbaren Infos zu:

WOLTERSDORF(F) oder WOLTERSTOR(F) (auch "von")

Folgende Quellen haben wir u.a. bereits ausgewertet: 

- Deutsches Geschlechterbuch, Band 89, 1936

- Gotha, Freiherrl. Taschenbuch, 1935

- div. Ordiniertenbücher von Otto Fischer

- Pfarrerbuch der Altmark

- Auswandererlisten für das Herzogtum Braunschweig (zu Calvörde)

- Urkunden- und Häuserbücher Magdeburg; Kinderbuch der Magd. Bäcker- u. Brauerinnung

- Theodor Fontane, Wanderungen...., Band 4, Spreeland

Als Gegenleistung (sonst gegen Erstattung der Kopier-, Porto- und evtl. Straßenbahnkosten) biete ich die Besorgung von Informationen aus den Beständen der Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz Bibliothek (Nieders. Landesbibl.) Hannover. Neben den o.g. Standardwerken verfügt die Bibliothek auch über eine umfangreiche familienkundliche Zeitschriftensammlung (z.B. Archiv für Sippenforschung, Deutsches Familien Archiv oder Familiengeschichtliche Blätter). Meist mit den dazu gehörigen Registerbänden.

Auf hilfreiche Antwort freut sich sehr

Burkhard Woltersdorf, Hannover

 

 

 var bodytag = "";	document.body.style.fontFamily =Verdana;	function strip(value) {	if(value != undefined){	while (value.indexOf(" ")==0) {	value = value.substring(1,value.length);	}	}	return value;	}	document.body.bgColor = #ffffff;	var bodystyle = margin-left:0px; font-size:9pt; margin:0px; font-family:Verdana; margin-left:0px; margin-right:0px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; font-family: Verdana;	var styles = bodystyle.split(";");	for (i=0; i<styles.length; i++) {	werte = styles[i].split(":");	var key = strip(werte[0].toLowerCase());	var value;	if (werte.length>2) {	value = werte[1];	for (j=2;j<werte.length;j++) {	value = value + ":" + werte[j];	}	value = strip(value);	} else {	value = strip(werte[1]);	}	switch(key) {	case "background-position":	document.body.style.backgroundPosition = value;	break;	case "font-weight":	document.body.style.fontWeight = value;	break;	case "font-size":	document.body.style.fontSize = value;	break;	case "background-image":	document.body.style.backgroundImage = value;	break;	case "margin":	document.body.style.margin = value;	break;	case "color":	document.body.style.color = value;	break;	case "background-repeat":	document.body.style.backgroundRepeat = value;	break;	case "font-style":	document.body.style.fontStyle = value;	break;	case "font-family":	document.body.style.fontFamily = value;	break;	case "background-color":	document.body.style.backgroundColor = value;	break;	case "margin-left":	document.body.style.marginLeft = value;	break;	case "margin-right":	document.body.style.marginRight = value;	break;	case "margin-top":	document.body.style.marginTop = value;	break;	case "margin-bottom":	document.body.style.marginBottom = value;	break;	default:	}	}	</SCRIPT>


	
Erweitern Sie FreeMail zu einem noch leistungsstarkeren E-Mail-Postfach!	
Mehr Infos unter *http://freemail.web.de/home/landingpad/?mc=021131* [http://freemail.web.de/home/landingpad/?mc=021131]

[HN] Grabmäler zwischen Weser und Elbe

Date: 2006/02/22 16:34:25
From: Rolf Schulenburg <rolf.schulenburg(a)t-online.de>

Liebe Listenteilnehmer!

Heute ist in der "Harburger Rundschau" einer Beilage zum "Hamburger Abendblatt" ein Artikel unter der Überschrift "Neues Buch: Grabmäler zwischen Weser und Elbe", in dem auf ein Buch "Erinnerungszeichen - Historische Grabmäler zwischen Elbe und Weser 1231 - 1900" hingewiesen wird, das für manche von Ihnen vielleicht interessant sein dürfte. Der Artikel selbst ist unter http://www.abendblatt.de/daten/2006/02/22/536333.html abrufbar.

Schönen Gruß aus Hamburg

Rolf Schulenburg

[HN] Hallo

Date: 2006/02/22 17:13:12
From: Kendal Obermeyer <germankendal(a)yahoo.com>

Grüße aus den USA; ich heiße Kendal und suche nähere
Auskunft über meine Vorfahren, die angeblich* Mitte
des 19. Jahrhunderts ausgewandert sind.  Ich habe
Geburtsdaten und Namen, obwohl ich nicht einmal weiß,
ob diese richtig geschrieben sind.  Mich würde
interessieren, ob sie Geschwister hätten, die nicht
ausgewandert sind, sowie das Hochzeitsdatum und wenn
möglich, wann sie Deutschland verlassen haben.
Problematisch ist es, weil die Namen
höchstwahrscheinlich 'falsch' geschrieben worden sind:
 

1. Yohann Fredrick Obermeier (oder Obermeyer)
geb. Samstag, 29. 9. 1816 in Han(n)over
gest. 26.2. 1898 Jeffriesburg, Missouri
2. Wilhelimine Sophie Charlotte Sneipel
geb. Samstag, 4. 3. 1820 in Han(n)over
gest. 23.12.1893  in Jeffriesburg, MO

...den Namen "Sneipel" habe ich niemals im Internet
finden können, und "Yohann" und "Fredrick"
interessieren mich auch.  Sie sind entweder 1847 oder
1848 aus Hannover ausgewandert (nach New York, dann
nach Wisconsin und dann nach Missouri) und waren
evangelischer Konfession.

Ich bitte um Verständnis, wenn ich mich nicht sehr
geschickt ausdrücke; ich habe zwar Germanistik
studiert, aber mit Ahnenforschung und dem
entsprechenden Wortschatz bin ich noch nicht so gut
vertraut. :}

Viele Grüße aus Nebraska!
*Kendal Obermeyer*




 



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [HN] Hallo, OBERMEYER, SCHNEIPEL

Date: 2006/02/22 18:26:41
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

Hello Kendal Obermeyer,

I was just wondering what excellent type of translator you could have used, when your last sentence came into sight. So, no problem with your german at all, quite excellent.

We have no SNEIPEL today still yet, but SCHNEIPEL. And how lucky you are, all I found lived in one place in 1998:

- SCHNEIPEL, Franz, Eichenweg 92, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 1628
- SCHNEIPEL, Georg, Schillerstr. 50, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 5454
- SCHNEIPEL, Heinrich, Nordstr. 4, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 10395
- SCHNEIPEL, Jakob, Schillerstr. 41, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. o5247 6500
- SCHNEIPEL, Katharina, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 10361

OBERMEYER is a more spread name in the southern parts of Germany, but especially in that place Harsewinel you also find OBERMEYER, which indicates this might be your place.

- OBERMEYER, Bernhard, Rinklakestr.7, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 4198
- OBERMEYER, Franz, Schwarzer Weg 22, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 02588 387 (Perhaps wrong nr.)
- OBERMEYER, Heinrich, Rinklakestr.7, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 4938
- OBERMEYER, Heinrich, Sürenbrede 10, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 2629

Please check the actual adresses and nbrs. under www.telefonbuch.de. 

I think there are good chances that Harsewinkel is the place of origin of your anchestors.

Good luck 

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

...

"Kendal Obermeyer" <germankendal(a)yahoo.com> schrieb:
> Grüße aus den USA; ich heiße Kendal und suche nähere
> Auskunft über meine Vorfahren, die angeblich* Mitte
> des 19. Jahrhunderts ausgewandert sind.  Ich habe
> Geburtsdaten und Namen, obwohl ich nicht einmal weiß,
> ob diese richtig geschrieben sind.  Mich würde
> interessieren, ob sie Geschwister hätten, die nicht
> ausgewandert sind, sowie das Hochzeitsdatum und wenn
> möglich, wann sie Deutschland verlassen haben.
> Problematisch ist es, weil die Namen
> höchstwahrscheinlich 'falsch' geschrieben worden sind:
>  
> 
> 1. Yohann Fredrick Obermeier (oder Obermeyer)
> geb. Samstag, 29. 9. 1816 in Han(n)over
> gest. 26.2. 1898 Jeffriesburg, Missouri
> 2. Wilhelimine Sophie Charlotte Sneipel
> geb. Samstag, 4. 3. 1820 in Han(n)over
> gest. 23.12.1893  in Jeffriesburg, MO
> 
> ...den Namen "Sneipel" habe ich niemals im Internet
> finden können, und "Yohann" und "Fredrick"
> interessieren mich auch.  Sie sind entweder 1847 oder
> 1848 aus Hannover ausgewandert (nach New York, dann
> nach Wisconsin und dann nach Missouri) und waren
> evangelischer Konfession.
> 
> Ich bitte um Verständnis, wenn ich mich nicht sehr
> geschickt ausdrücke; ich habe zwar Germanistik
> studiert, aber mit Ahnenforschung und dem
> entsprechenden Wortschatz bin ich noch nicht so gut
> vertraut. :}
> 
> Viele Grüße aus Nebraska!
> *Kendal Obermeyer*
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 


Re: [HN] Glenewinkel aus Hildesheim/Nienburg

Date: 2006/02/22 20:20:07
From: Bob Marhenke <bobmarval(a)juno.com>

I have several Nolte's in my line originating from The Empede Hannover
area.  Bob Marhenke


On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 23:21:51 +0100 Claudia Nolte-Schwarting
<nolte-schwarting(a)gmx.de> writes:
> Hallo,
> 
> ich bin neu auf dieser Liste und möchte mich kurz vorstellen. Mein
> Name ist Claudia Nolte-Schwarting. Ich wohne in Nordenham. Ich
> interessiere mich hauptsächlich für die Familie Schwarting aus
> Oldenburg, die aber auch "Ableger" ins Hannoversche hat.
> 
> Ich suche Vorfahren von
> 
> Carl Johannes Georg GLENEWINKEL * 5 Juni 1853 in Hildesheim (Vater 
> war
> ein Tischler oder Schneider in Hildesheim, Mutter Caroline Bruns)
> 
> oo 26. Dez. 1875 in Osternburg (bei Oldenburg)
> Luise Schwarting * 14 Jun 1850 Oldenburg.
> 
> Das Ehepaar hatte vier in Osternburg geborenen Kinder und verzog
> später nach Nienburg. Dort gründete C.J.Georg Glenewinkel einen
> Verlag (Nienburger Anzeiger), der später eine Zweigstelle in
> Stolzenau hatte, wo sein Sohn das "Stolzenauer Wochenblatt" 
> herausgab.
> 
> Die Abkömmlinge von drei Kindern (Georg, Hans und Elli) sind mir 
> bekannt.
> 
> Wer weiß etwas über Gustav Paul Theodor Glenewinkel * 8.Dez.1886 in
> Osternburg + 18. Jul. 1822 Nienburg, verheiratet (mit wem?), 
> Abkömmlinge
> unbekannt, (beim Todesfall eingetragen als "Buchdruckereibesitzer in
> Nienburg)?
> 
> Gruß aus der Wesermarsch
> Claudia Nolte-SchwartinH
> mailto:nolte-schwarting(a)gmx.de
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 

[HN] GESUCHT: SCHRADER - Heinrich Julius Schrader born 9 June 1827 in the Duchy of Braunschweig

Date: 2006/02/22 22:06:45
From: Klaus Riecken <klaus(a)riecken-online.de>

Liebe Listenmitglieder,

kann von Euch jemand helfen?

Ich bekam folgende Zuschrift:

I am looking for Heinrich Julius Schrader born 9 June 1827 in the Duchy of Braunschweig.  He was a Lutheran.

Emigrated to America in the 1850's.

If you have information on him please contact me.

Gail Schrader
gscout1912(a)mindspring.com

Viele Grüße

Klaus (Riecken)

Re: [HN] Hallo, OBERMEYER, SCHNEIPEL

Date: 2006/02/23 10:58:51
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Kendal,

To my eyes...

Schneipel in a hand-written record might perhaps look like Schneibel?

To my ears...

Schneipel might even sound like Schneibel.

As I write this note I begin to feel very silly..

But for minute chance I will continue.

The name Schniebel sounds familiar to me. Familiar why? Here comes the silly.

Late 1970's....

A cousin had a crush on a Schniebel who played soccer for Aquinas High School. Aquinis today is called Trinity. It's located in Florissant, St. Louis, Missouri.

This family lived lived on same street as my cousin.

Barbie-Lew


From: 320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Hallo, OBERMEYER, SCHNEIPEL
Date: 22 Feb 2006 16:21 GMT

Hello Kendal Obermeyer,

I was just wondering what excellent type of translator you could have used, when your last sentence came into sight. So, no problem with your german at all, quite excellent.

We have no SNEIPEL today still yet, but SCHNEIPEL. And how lucky you are, all I found lived in one place in 1998:

- SCHNEIPEL, Franz, Eichenweg 92, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 1628
- SCHNEIPEL, Georg, Schillerstr. 50, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 5454
- SCHNEIPEL, Heinrich, Nordstr. 4, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 10395
- SCHNEIPEL, Jakob, Schillerstr. 41, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. o5247 6500
- SCHNEIPEL, Katharina, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 10361

OBERMEYER is a more spread name in the southern parts of Germany, but especially in that place Harsewinel you also find OBERMEYER, which indicates this might be your place.

- OBERMEYER, Bernhard, Rinklakestr.7, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 4198
- OBERMEYER, Franz, Schwarzer Weg 22, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 02588 387 (Perhaps wrong nr.)
- OBERMEYER, Heinrich, Rinklakestr.7, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 4938
- OBERMEYER, Heinrich, Sürenbrede 10, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 2629

Please check the actual adresses and nbrs. under www.telefonbuch.de.

I think there are good chances that Harsewinkel is the place of origin of your anchestors.

Good luck

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

...

"Kendal Obermeyer" <germankendal(a)yahoo.com> schrieb:
> Grüße aus den USA; ich heiße Kendal und suche nähere
> Auskunft über meine Vorfahren, die angeblich* Mitte
> des 19. Jahrhunderts ausgewandert sind.  Ich habe
> Geburtsdaten und Namen, obwohl ich nicht einmal weiß,
> ob diese richtig geschrieben sind.  Mich würde
> interessieren, ob sie Geschwister hätten, die nicht
> ausgewandert sind, sowie das Hochzeitsdatum und wenn
> möglich, wann sie Deutschland verlassen haben.
> Problematisch ist es, weil die Namen
> höchstwahrscheinlich 'falsch' geschrieben worden sind:
>
>
> 1. Yohann Fredrick Obermeier (oder Obermeyer)
> geb. Samstag, 29. 9. 1816 in Han(n)over
> gest. 26.2. 1898 Jeffriesburg, Missouri
> 2. Wilhelimine Sophie Charlotte Sneipel
> geb. Samstag, 4. 3. 1820 in Han(n)over
> gest. 23.12.1893  in Jeffriesburg, MO
>
> ...den Namen "Sneipel" habe ich niemals im Internet
> finden können, und "Yohann" und "Fredrick"
> interessieren mich auch.  Sie sind entweder 1847 oder
> 1848 aus Hannover ausgewandert (nach New York, dann
> nach Wisconsin und dann nach Missouri) und waren
> evangelischer Konfession.
>
> Ich bitte um Verständnis, wenn ich mich nicht sehr
> geschickt ausdrücke; ich habe zwar Germanistik
> studiert, aber mit Ahnenforschung und dem
> entsprechenden Wortschatz bin ich noch nicht so gut
> vertraut. :}
>
> Viele Grüße aus Nebraska!
> *Kendal Obermeyer*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963


[HN] Johann David Moritz b 1842 Marienhafe search

Date: 2006/02/23 15:14:06
From: L Wessels <lwessels(a)yahoo.com>

Hallo!

Please excuse that I do not speak German.  

I'm researching my husband's German roots and I don't have much information.

Johann David MORITZ: born on 18 Oct 1842 in Marienhafe, East Friesland, Hanover, Germany -- married in Benson, Illinois USA to
 Gebke GERDES: born on 7 Dec 1844 in  Germany -- married in Benson, Illinois USA

They both died in Benson, Illinois USA.  They had 7 children.

Please help if you can.  


Laraine Wilson Wessels
Peoria, Illinois
lwessels(a)yahoo.com
		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail
 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[HN] Johann David Moritz b 1842 Marienhafe search

Date: 2006/02/23 15:14:07
From: L Wessels <lwessels(a)yahoo.com>

Hallo!

Please excuse that I do not speak German.  

I'm researching my husband's German roots and I don't have much information.

Johann David MORITZ: born on 18 Oct 1842 in Marienhafe, East Friesland, Hanover, Germany -- married in Benson, Illinois USA to
 Gebke GERDES: born on 7 Dec 1844 in  Germany -- married in Benson, Illinois USA

They both died in Benson, Illinois USA.  They had 7 children.

Please help if you can.  


Laraine Wilson Wessels
Peoria, Illinois
lwessels(a)yahoo.com
			
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail
 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[HN] Wessel Janssen Wessels b 1825 Extum Aurich search

Date: 2006/02/23 15:29:17
From: L Wessels <lwessels(a)yahoo.com>

  Hallo,
 
 Please excuse that I do not know German.
  
  I'm searching for information about my husband's great grandfather.
  
  Wessel Janssen WESSELS: born on 28 May 1825 in Extum, Aurich, Ostfriesland, Germany  Father's name Johann born in 1795 -- married in Oldenbrok to
 
 Anna Christine Johanne HARMJANS: born on 16 Oct 1829 in Oldenbrok, Wesermarsch, Germany -- Father's name Friederich born in 1795
 
 Thank you for guidance!

Laraine Wilson Wessels
Peoria, Illinois
lwessels(a)yahoo.com
		
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
 PhotoMail  - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

[HN] Schrader

Date: 2006/02/23 16:06:59
From: Gail Schrader <gscout1912(a)mindspring.com>

Hi Klaus,

I can not read German and I tryed to translate your message but it did not make sense.

I was hoping you had my Schrader - Heinrich Julius born 9 June 1827 in the Duchy of Braunschweig on your list of Schrader's.

Gail Schrader
gscout1912(a)mindspring.com

RE: [HN] Hallo, OBERMEYER, SCHNEIPEL

Date: 2006/02/23 16:17:05
From: Jack P Scott <sqp(a)axion.net>

Here is another possibility and I am sure there are probably more a
written a could easily have looked like an e

Could Schneipel originally been Schnaibel or Schnabel.  My GGGGGG
grandfather was a schnable which then became schnob and now it is Scott.
We do like to change the spelling of our name.     Regards  Jack

Jack & Lorrie Scott
# 103 15165 Marine Dr.
White Rock, B.C. Canada V4B-1C5
Ph 604-538-1474
Email: sqp(a)axion.net
Family Tree Website: www.jackpscott.com
Business Website: www.sqprecruiters.com & www.isawsanta.com

-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces+sqp=axion.net(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces+sqp=axion.net(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of
Cactus Flower
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 1:59 AM
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: [HN] Hallo, OBERMEYER, SCHNEIPEL

Dear Kendal,

To my eyes...

Schneipel in a hand-written record might perhaps look like Schneibel?

To my ears...

Schneipel might even sound like Schneibel.

As I write this note I begin to feel very silly..

But for minute chance I will continue.

The name Schniebel sounds familiar to me.  Familiar why?  Here comes the

silly.

Late 1970's....

A cousin had a crush on a Schniebel who played soccer for Aquinas High 
School.  Aquinis today is called Trinity.  It's located in Florissant,
St. 
Louis, Missouri.

This family lived lived on same street as my cousin.

Barbie-Lew


>From: 320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de
>Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>Subject: Re: [HN] Hallo, OBERMEYER, SCHNEIPEL
>Date: 22 Feb 2006 16:21 GMT
>
>Hello Kendal Obermeyer,
>
>I was just wondering what excellent type of translator you could have
used, 
>when your last sentence came into sight. So, no problem with your
german at 
>all, quite excellent.
>
>We have no SNEIPEL today still yet, but SCHNEIPEL. And how lucky you
are, 
>all I found lived in one place in 1998:
>
>- SCHNEIPEL, Franz, Eichenweg 92, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 1628
>- SCHNEIPEL, Georg, Schillerstr. 50, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 5454
>- SCHNEIPEL, Heinrich, Nordstr. 4, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 10395
>- SCHNEIPEL, Jakob, Schillerstr. 41, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. o5247 6500
>- SCHNEIPEL, Katharina, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 10361
>
>OBERMEYER is a more spread name in the southern parts of Germany, but 
>especially in that place Harsewinel you also find OBERMEYER, which 
>indicates this might be your place.
>
>- OBERMEYER, Bernhard, Rinklakestr.7, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247
4198
>- OBERMEYER, Franz, Schwarzer Weg 22, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 02588 387

>(Perhaps wrong nr.)
>- OBERMEYER, Heinrich, Rinklakestr.7, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247
4938
>- OBERMEYER, Heinrich, Sürenbrede 10, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247
2629
>
>Please check the actual adresses and nbrs. under www.telefonbuch.de.
>
>I think there are good chances that Harsewinkel is the place of origin
of 
>your anchestors.
>
>Good luck
>
>Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel
>
>...
>
>"Kendal Obermeyer" <germankendal(a)yahoo.com> schrieb:
> > Grüße aus den USA; ich heiße Kendal und suche nähere
> > Auskunft über meine Vorfahren, die angeblich* Mitte
> > des 19. Jahrhunderts ausgewandert sind.  Ich habe
> > Geburtsdaten und Namen, obwohl ich nicht einmal weiß,
> > ob diese richtig geschrieben sind.  Mich würde
> > interessieren, ob sie Geschwister hätten, die nicht
> > ausgewandert sind, sowie das Hochzeitsdatum und wenn
> > möglich, wann sie Deutschland verlassen haben.
> > Problematisch ist es, weil die Namen
> > höchstwahrscheinlich 'falsch' geschrieben worden sind:
> >
> >
> > 1. Yohann Fredrick Obermeier (oder Obermeyer)
> > geb. Samstag, 29. 9. 1816 in Han(n)over
> > gest. 26.2. 1898 Jeffriesburg, Missouri
> > 2. Wilhelimine Sophie Charlotte Sneipel
> > geb. Samstag, 4. 3. 1820 in Han(n)over
> > gest. 23.12.1893  in Jeffriesburg, MO
> >
> > ...den Namen "Sneipel" habe ich niemals im Internet
> > finden können, und "Yohann" und "Fredrick"
> > interessieren mich auch.  Sie sind entweder 1847 oder
> > 1848 aus Hannover ausgewandert (nach New York, dann
> > nach Wisconsin und dann nach Missouri) und waren
> > evangelischer Konfession.
> >
> > Ich bitte um Verständnis, wenn ich mich nicht sehr
> > geschickt ausdrücke; ich habe zwar Germanistik
> > studiert, aber mit Ahnenforschung und dem
> > entsprechenden Wortschatz bin ich noch nicht so gut
> > vertraut. :}
> >
> > Viele Grüße aus Nebraska!
> > *Kendal Obermeyer*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> >
>
>______________________________________________
>
>Hannover-L mailing list
>Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



Re: [HN] Johann David Moritz b 1842 Marienhafe search

Date: 2006/02/23 17:32:00
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>


Hi Laraine:

That's OK, there are probably more listings in English than German and there are usually a number of people willing to translate for you.

Have you tried the LDS/Mormons/Family History Center?
I find that they have information for the following subjects and dates. It goes back a few years before Johann was born.

Zivilstandsregister, 1812-1814  Marienhafe (Hannover).
Kirchenbuchduplikat, 1828-1874 Evangelische Kirche Marienhafe (Kr. Norden)

If the above Marienhafe is the right one.

Gale


On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 06:13:59 -0800 (PST)
 L Wessels <lwessels(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Hallo!

Please excuse that I do not speak German. I'm researching my husband's German roots and I don't have much information.

Johann David MORITZ: born on 18 Oct 1842 in Marienhafe, East Friesland, Hanover, Germany -- married in Benson, Illinois USA to Gebke GERDES: born on 7 Dec 1844 in Germany -- married in Benson, Illinois USA

They both died in Benson, Illinois USA. They had 7 children.

Please help if you can.

Laraine Wilson Wessels
Peoria, Illinois
lwessels(a)yahoo.com
		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Wessel Janssen Wessels b 1825 Extum Aurich search

Date: 2006/02/23 17:43:46
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Laraine:

I think you are right to post two queries, it helps to keep information seperate and makes it less confusing for others.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

Once again the FHC has a lot of info on Aurich.

Germany, Preußen, Hannover, Aurich - Archives and libraries Germany, Preußen, Hannover, Aurich - Archives and libraries - Inventories, registers, catalogs
Germany, Preußen, Hannover, Aurich - Church records
Germany, Preußen, Hannover, Aurich - Civil registration
Germany, Preußen, Hannover, Aurich - Jewish records
Germany, Preußen, Hannover, Aurich - Jewish records - Inventories, registers, catalogs
Germany, Preußen, Hannover, Aurich - Medical records

For Aurich-Oldendorf:

Germany, Preußen, Hannover, Aurich-Oldendorf - Church records Germany, Preußen, Hannover, Aurich-Oldendorf - Civil registration
Germany, Preußen, Hannover, Aurich-Oldendorf - Genealogy

I won't list the info on Ostfriesland as it is so long.

First before you start looking at any of the microfilms for the above, make sure they are the right towns, etc. Many times there are towns, districts, etc with the same or similar names. I just did a quick search.

Gale


On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 06:29:10 -0800 (PST)
 L Wessels <lwessels(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
 Hallo,

Please excuse that I do not know German.
I'm searching for information about my husband's great grandfather. Wessel Janssen WESSELS: born on 28 May 1825 in Extum, Aurich, Ostfriesland, Germany Father's name Johann born in 1795 -- married in Oldenbrok to

Anna Christine Johanne HARMJANS: born on 16 Oct 1829 in Oldenbrok, Wesermarsch, Germany -- Father's name Friederich born in 1795

Thank you for guidance!

Laraine Wilson Wessels
Peoria, Illinois
lwessels(a)yahoo.com
		
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail  - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


RE: [HN] Johann David Moritz b 1842 Marienhafe search

Date: 2006/02/23 21:00:14
From: Larry Monk <lmonk33(a)msn.com>

Hello Loraine Wessels,

In September 2003 I searched the LDS Marienhafe records 1828-1875 on Film
#1187716, Germany 02960, Roll #69.  The entire year 1843 is missing, but
otherwise the information is there.  As with all church records, the ease of
reading the script varies according to the skill of the scribe (pastor?).

Happy hunting!
Larry Monk



From: L Wessels <lwessels(a)yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Johann David Moritz b 1842 Marienhafe search
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 06:14:00 -0800 (PST)

Hallo!

Please excuse that I do not speak German.

I'm researching my husband's German roots and I don't have much information.

Johann David MORITZ: born on 18 Oct 1842 in Marienhafe, East Friesland, Hanover, Germany -- married in Benson, Illinois USA to Gebke GERDES: born on 7 Dec 1844 in Germany -- married in Benson, Illinois USA

They both died in Benson, Illinois USA.  They had 7 children.

Please help if you can.


Laraine Wilson Wessels
Peoria, Illinois
lwessels(a)yahoo.com

---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail
 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



Re: [HN] Hallo

Date: 2006/02/23 21:46:03
From: Emmerich . Albert <Emmerich.Albert(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Kendal,

Du schreibst sehr gutes Deutsch!

Ich will einen Versuch einer Hilfe geben:

Die Vornamen des Vorfahren werden sein:
Johann Friedrich ( oder Friederich ).
Nachnamen wurden häufig mit wechselnder Schreibweise geführt, Obermeier und Obermeyer können sehr gut in einer Linie vorkommen.

Die Vornamen der Frau (?) sind:
Wilhelmine Sophie Charlotte
der Nachname wahrscheinlich Schneipel
( das ch wurde wohl nach der Einwanderung in die USA weggelassen ).

Die Stadt heisst heute Hannover (in der deutschen Schreibweise), ich selbst wohne etwa 60 km ( 40 Meilen ) östlich von Hannover.

Viel Glück bei der weiteren Suche nach Deinen Vorfahren,

Albert Emmerich
aus Cremlingen / Niedersachsen / Deutschland


"Kendal Obermeyer" <germankendal(a)yahoo.com> schrieb:
> Grüße aus den USA; ich heiße Kendal und suche nähere
> Auskunft über meine Vorfahren, die angeblich* Mitte
> des 19. Jahrhunderts ausgewandert sind.  Ich habe
> Geburtsdaten und Namen, obwohl ich nicht einmal weiß,
> ob diese richtig geschrieben sind.  Mich würde
> interessieren, ob sie Geschwister hätten, die nicht
> ausgewandert sind, sowie das Hochzeitsdatum und wenn
> möglich, wann sie Deutschland verlassen haben.
> Problematisch ist es, weil die Namen
> höchstwahrscheinlich 'falsch' geschrieben worden sind:
>  
> 
> 1. Yohann Fredrick Obermeier (oder Obermeyer)
> geb. Samstag, 29. 9. 1816 in Han(n)over
> gest. 26.2. 1898 Jeffriesburg, Missouri
> 2. Wilhelimine Sophie Charlotte Sneipel
> geb. Samstag, 4. 3. 1820 in Han(n)over
> gest. 23.12.1893  in Jeffriesburg, MO
> 
> ...den Namen "Sneipel" habe ich niemals im Internet
> finden können, und "Yohann" und "Fredrick"
> interessieren mich auch.  Sie sind entweder 1847 oder
> 1848 aus Hannover ausgewandert (nach New York, dann
> nach Wisconsin und dann nach Missouri) und waren
> evangelischer Konfession.
> 
> Ich bitte um Verständnis, wenn ich mich nicht sehr
> geschickt ausdrücke; ich habe zwar Germanistik
> studiert, aber mit Ahnenforschung und dem
> entsprechenden Wortschatz bin ich noch nicht so gut
> vertraut. :}
> 
> Viele Grüße aus Nebraska!
> *Kendal Obermeyer*
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 


[HN] LDS for Johann David Moritz & Wessel Janssen Wessels

Date: 2006/02/23 22:48:09
From: L Wessels <lwessels(a)yahoo.com>

Thank you Gail & Larry for the LDS tips.  I haven't used them but I will investigate doing that.  I very new to this ancestry research stuff.

Laraine Wilson Wessels
Peoria, Illinois USA


Laraine Wilson Wessels
Peoria, Illinois
lwessels(a)yahoo.com
		
---------------------------------
 
 What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos 

Re: [HN] Hallo, OBERMEYER, SCHNEIPEL

Date: 2006/02/24 02:16:52
From: Kendal Obermeyer <germankendal(a)yahoo.com>

Dear Barbie-Lew,
It's a tiny world; I went to college with a girl from
Florissant.  
I am certainly not ruling out any alternate spellings
because I have been told that my ancestors who came
from Germany were illiterate - ANYTHING could happen. 
Heck, as someone pointed out, a little spelling shift
is nothing.  People could get on a boat being called
Zimmermann and arrive and turn into Carpenters.  It
looks like my family's names were not anglicized, at
any rate, although this stuff is absolutely like
finding a needle in a huge haystack.  But I figure,
the German major should make it that much easier.
And if you happen to know anyone from Florissant named
Tammy Lees Torres (she was just Tammy Lees when I knew
her in the nineties), the world just got that much
smaller!
*Kendal*
*

--- Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Kendal,
> 
> To my eyes...
> 
> Schneipel in a hand-written record might perhaps
> look like Schneibel?
> 
> To my ears...
> 
> Schneipel might even sound like Schneibel.
> 
> As I write this note I begin to feel very silly..
> 
> But for minute chance I will continue.
> 
> The name Schniebel sounds familiar to me.  Familiar
> why?  Here comes the 
> silly.
> 
> Late 1970's....
> 
> A cousin had a crush on a Schniebel who played
> soccer for Aquinas High 
> School.  Aquinis today is called Trinity.  It's
> located in Florissant, St. 
> Louis, Missouri.
> 
> This family lived lived on same street as my cousin.
> 
> Barbie-Lew
> 
> 
> >From: 320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de
> >Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> >To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> >Subject: Re: [HN] Hallo, OBERMEYER, SCHNEIPEL
> >Date: 22 Feb 2006 16:21 GMT
> >
> >Hello Kendal Obermeyer,
> >
> >I was just wondering what excellent type of
> translator you could have used, 
> >when your last sentence came into sight. So, no
> problem with your german at 
> >all, quite excellent.
> >
> >We have no SNEIPEL today still yet, but SCHNEIPEL.
> And how lucky you are, 
> >all I found lived in one place in 1998:
> >
> >- SCHNEIPEL, Franz, Eichenweg 92, 33428
> Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 1628
> >- SCHNEIPEL, Georg, Schillerstr. 50, 33428
> Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 5454
> >- SCHNEIPEL, Heinrich, Nordstr. 4, 33428
> Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 10395
> >- SCHNEIPEL, Jakob, Schillerstr. 41, 33428
> Harsewinkel, Tel. o5247 6500
> >- SCHNEIPEL, Katharina, 33428 Harsewinkel, Tel.
> 05247 10361
> >
> >OBERMEYER is a more spread name in the southern
> parts of Germany, but 
> >especially in that place Harsewinel you also find
> OBERMEYER, which 
> >indicates this might be your place.
> >
> >- OBERMEYER, Bernhard, Rinklakestr.7, 33428
> Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 4198
> >- OBERMEYER, Franz, Schwarzer Weg 22, 33428
> Harsewinkel, Tel. 02588 387 
> >(Perhaps wrong nr.)
> >- OBERMEYER, Heinrich, Rinklakestr.7, 33428
> Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 4938
> >- OBERMEYER, Heinrich, Sürenbrede 10, 33428
> Harsewinkel, Tel. 05247 2629
> >
> >Please check the actual adresses and nbrs. under
> www.telefonbuch.de.
> >
> >I think there are good chances that Harsewinkel is
> the place of origin of 
> >your anchestors.
> >
> >Good luck
> >
> >Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel
> >
> >...
> >
> >"Kendal Obermeyer" <germankendal(a)yahoo.com>
> schrieb:
> > > Grüße aus den USA; ich heiße Kendal und suche
> nähere
> > > Auskunft über meine Vorfahren, die angeblich*
> Mitte
> > > des 19. Jahrhunderts ausgewandert sind.  Ich
> habe
> > > Geburtsdaten und Namen, obwohl ich nicht einmal
> weiß,
> > > ob diese richtig geschrieben sind.  Mich würde
> > > interessieren, ob sie Geschwister hätten, die
> nicht
> > > ausgewandert sind, sowie das Hochzeitsdatum und
> wenn
> > > möglich, wann sie Deutschland verlassen haben.
> > > Problematisch ist es, weil die Namen
> > > höchstwahrscheinlich 'falsch' geschrieben worden
> sind:
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. Yohann Fredrick Obermeier (oder Obermeyer)
> > > geb. Samstag, 29. 9. 1816 in Han(n)over
> > > gest. 26.2. 1898 Jeffriesburg, Missouri
> > > 2. Wilhelimine Sophie Charlotte Sneipel
> > > geb. Samstag, 4. 3. 1820 in Han(n)over
> > > gest. 23.12.1893  in Jeffriesburg, MO
> > >
> > > ...den Namen "Sneipel" habe ich niemals im
> Internet
> > > finden können, und "Yohann" und "Fredrick"
> > > interessieren mich auch.  Sie sind entweder 1847
> oder
> > > 1848 aus Hannover ausgewandert (nach New York,
> dann
> > > nach Wisconsin und dann nach Missouri) und waren
> > > evangelischer Konfession.
> > >
> > > Ich bitte um Verständnis, wenn ich mich nicht
> sehr
> > > geschickt ausdrücke; ich habe zwar Germanistik
> > > studiert, aber mit Ahnenforschung und dem
> > > entsprechenden Wortschatz bin ich noch nicht so
> gut
> > > vertraut. :}
> > >
> > > Viele Grüße aus Nebraska!
> > > *Kendal Obermeyer*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > >
>
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > >
> >
> >______________________________________________
> >
> >Hannover-L mailing list
> >Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>
>http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer
> virus scan from McAfee® 
> Security.
>
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 



 



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

[HN] Angelika Frerichs aus Papenburg, Hofdame v on Königin von Hannov

Date: 2006/02/24 13:37:33
From: Dirk Unterbrink <dirk(a)unterbrink.net>

Hallo,
 
ich suche nach Informationen über Angelika Frerichs. Sie soll um 1825 in
Papenburg geboren sein und heiratete ca. 1865 den Theodor Borgmann aus
Scharrel.
 
Ich habe erfahren, dass Angelika Frerichs angeblich eine Hofdame der Königin
von Hannover gewesen sein soll. Weiss jemand, um  welche Königin von
Hannover es sich hier handelt? Wie kann ich nachprüfen, dass die Angabe
stimmt?
 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Dirk (Unterbrink)

[HN] Help

Date: 2006/02/24 14:07:42
From: jerry <malbergen(a)yahoo.com>

Hallo,  I would like some help locating the origins of
Frederick Stuckwisch born about 1795, wife Louisa born
about 1799 both in Hannover.
Children born in Hannover:
Frederick  1831
Rudolph    1835
William     1835-36
Anna       1839
Louisa     1843

Thanks   JJM


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

[HN] WENKE / WENKEN / WILDE / WILKE - Tönhausen , Winsen an der Luhe, Oldershausen

Date: 2006/02/24 14:09:28
From: thorsten <t.minse(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Freunde der Ahnenforschung

Ich habe wieder einmal ein Problem wo ich Eure Hilfe brauche. 
Ich suche alles über folgende Personen

Peter WENKE / WENKEN - Schneider
Geb. 04.06.1822 - Tönnhausen
Get.  09.06.1822 - Winsen an der Luhe
Gest. ??
Beerd.??
oo 11.02.1853 - Winsen an der Luhe
Anna Magdalena WILDE / WILKE
Geb. 08.12.1821 - Oldershausen
Gest.15.04.1871 - Tönnhausen

Leider habe ich sonst garnichts. Ich hoffe Ihr können mir weiter helfen.

lieben gruß

Thorsten aus Köhn

[HN] BRANDT / BRAND - Salzhausen

Date: 2006/02/24 14:16:32
From: thorsten <t.minse(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Freunde der Ahnenforschung

Ich habe wieder einmal ein Problem wo ich Eure Hilfe brauche. 
Ich suche alles über folgende Personen

Johann Heinrich Adolf BRANDT - Ziegekmeister in Salzhausen
Geb. 17.02.1828 - Exter / Herford
Gest. ???
oo 17.11.1853 - Exter / Herford
Wilhelmine Henriett KOPP
Geb. 02.10.1829 - Wüsten
Gest. ??

Kinder
1. 
Dorothea Magdalene Catharine Alwine BRANDT
Geb. 18.08.1864 - Salzhausen

2.
Johann Karl Wilhelm August BRANDT
Geb. 22.03.1867 - Salzhausen

Leider habe ich sonst garnichts. Ich hoffe Ihr können mir weiter helfen.

lieben gruß

Thorsten aus Köhn

Re: [HN] Glenewinkel aus Hildesheim/Nienburg

Date: 2006/02/24 16:15:57
From: Wilfried . Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"Claudia Nolte-Schwarting" <nolte-schwarting(a)gmx.de> schrieb:
> Hallo,
> 
> ich bin neu auf dieser Liste und möchte mich kurz vorstellen. 
> 
> Ich suche Vorfahren von
> 
> Carl Johannes Georg GLENEWINKEL * 5 Juni 1853 in Hildesheim (Vater war
> ein Tischler oder Schneider in Hildesheim, Mutter Caroline Bruns)
> 

> 

Hallo Frau Nolte-Schwarting,

herzlich willkommen in der Hannover-Liste.

Der Name GLENEWINKEL ließ mich aufhorchen, da meine Schwiegermutter eine geborene GLENEWINKEL ist. Allerdings kommen ihre Vorfahren aus Rott (bei Alfeld), Thüste und Salzhemmendorf. Eine Verbindung zu ihren GLENEWINKEL läßt sich da z.Zt. noch nicht feststellen, aber das kann ja möglicherweise noch kommen, denn Hildesheim ist ja nicht so weit. Sollten Sie Ihre weiteren Forschungen also in die genannte Gegend führen, wäre ich für Kontaktaufnahme dankbar. Ich würde Ihnen dort sicher weiterhelfen können.

Viel Erfolg und freundliche Grüße,
Wilfried Petersen


Re: [HN] Help STUCKWISCH

Date: 2006/02/24 17:43:11
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"jerry" <malbergen(a)yahoo.com> schrieb:
> Hallo,  I would like some help locating the origins of
> Frederick Stuckwisch born about 1795, wife Louisa born
> about 1799 both in Hannover.
> Children born in Hannover:
> Frederick  1831
> Rudolph    1835
> William     1835-36
> Anna       1839
> Louisa     1843
> 
> Thanks   JJM

Hello Jerry ...?

There is  avery centre of living STUCKWISCH in 49179 Ostercappeln, also several in 49565 Bramsche and some in 49806 Osnabrück. As there are only 30 entries of STUCKWISCH in 1998 and 7 of these live in Ostercappeln, what is about a quarter of the population bearing this name, I would start the research there. You will find STUCKWISCH-adresses under www.telefonbuch.de, other information perhaps at your LDS-centre on the film, if available for Ostercappeln and this time.

Best wishes

hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

Re: [HN] Help

Date: 2006/02/24 18:59:15
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Jerry:

When you say Hannover, do you mean the Kingdom of Hannover
or the City?

Are these people who emmigrated to the U.S. or did they
live their full lives in Germany?  If they emmigrated, you
might find information which may indicate the town they
were from.

Hans Peter Albers gave you some fairly recent addresses,
but the birth dates of some are over 200 years ago.  There
may not be any knowledge of your ancestors.  But if you
can't find any other information, by all means give them a
try.

The LDS/Mormon/Family History Center has records for the towns Hans Peter mentioned.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

Gale

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 05:06:53 -0800 (PST)
 jerry <malbergen(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Hallo,  I would like some help locating the origins of
Frederick Stuckwisch born about 1795, wife Louisa born
about 1799 both in Hannover.
Children born in Hannover:
Frederick  1831
Rudolph    1835
William     1835-36
Anna       1839
Louisa     1843

Thanks   JJM


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] RE: U.S. Fed. Census mistakes

Date: 2006/02/24 20:06:18
From: Cheryl Janowiak <cheryljano(a)yahoo.com>

Some may be interested:
  (especially those who are researching in Wisconsin)
  There are BOTH National Archives AND Wisconsin Historical Society microfilms for the following years: 1850, 1860, 1870.  One set is a written copy and one is the original.  I was told that the Historical Society copy is the original, but haven't verified this.
   
  Guten Tag!
  Frau Janowiak
   

		
---------------------------------
 
 What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos 

Re: [HN] Help Stuckwisch

Date: 2006/02/24 20:35:06
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi, 

     There is evidence on emigration records and on the LDS search site that
there were/are Stuckwisch families in Ostercappeln, Niewidde, Venne and
Belm. These are all in the area north and east of Osnabrück.  Have you ever
looked at the LDS films for your family?   Granted, the records are spotty
and incomplete.  However, I know from experience that looking at those
records can be helpful.  The church records are often "Kirchenbuchduplikat"
of the original--and incomplete. Stuckwisch family is also mentioned near
Badbergen which is straight north of Osnabrück close to Bersenbrück; there
appears to be LDS records for the church there (1671 - 1821).

     The only other thing I would suggest is frequent Google searches with
the name of Stuckwisch with "ahnenforschung" or "Stammbaum" and/or either a
name of a town. 

Barbara





on 2/24/06 6:06 AM, jerry at malbergen(a)yahoo.com wrote:

> Hallo,  I would like some help locating the origins of
> Frederick Stuckwisch born about 1795, wife Louisa born
> about 1799 both in Hannover.
> Children born in Hannover:
> Frederick  1831
> Rudolph    1835
> William     1835-36
> Anna       1839
> Louisa     1843
> 
> Thanks   JJM
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Leerhafe Onken/Groot

Date: 2006/02/25 00:24:10
From: L Wessels <lwessels(a)yahoo.com>

Hallo all, 
New information found on marriage license.  
 

 
  Friedrich ONKEN had a Plants & flowers greenhouse in Leerhafe, Ostfriesland, 
 
Germany.  He married Maria Groot
 
 
 
Friedrich had 4 children:  
 
 Wilhelm F. ONKEN: born on 23 Jul 1885 in Leerhafe Ostfriesland Germany -- 
 
Immigrated to USA  arriving March 18, 1902 at Ellis Island.  Married & died in Benson, 
 
Illinois USA -- He is my husband's grandfather.
 
 
 
  Friedrich ONKEN was born in Germany.  He died in Germany?  He took over a 
 
Family greenhouse?
 
       Johann C. ONKEN was born about 1880 in Leerhafe, Ostfriesland, Germany.  He 
 
immigrated on 8 Mar 1895 to Iowa.  He married, had no children and he died in 
 
Wheaton, DuPage County, Illinois.
 
 
 
      Marie ONKEN was born in Germany.  She married  and they had a casket 
 
business in Germany which they moved to Greece.  She died in Athens, Greece?
 
 
 
Thank you for the help!
 

Laraine Wilson Wessels
Peoria, Illinois
lwessels(a)yahoo.com
			
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail
 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

Re: [HN] Leerhafe Onken/Groot

Date: 2006/02/25 02:46:44
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Laraine:

I don't know if you have the following information:
Leerhafe is in the church district Wittmund. The following records are available for the Leerhafe Parish:

Leerhafe
 1672- Baptism

 1672- Marriage

 1675- Burial

 1876- Confirmation

 1768- People who
recieved Lord`s
Supper

This is courtesy of Jens Müller-Koppe at the following URL:
http://www.hist.de/ywittmund.htm

I am not sure, but I blieve that the dash after the dates means that it is from that date to the present or something like that. To be sure, you may want to ask Jens at hrs(a)hist.de

This appears to go back a little further than what the LDS have. Kirchenbuchduplikat, 1794-1874 Evangelische Kirche Leerhafe (Kr. Wittmund

Sounds like you are picking up some good info.


Gale

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:24:04 -0800 (PST)
 L Wessels <lwessels(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Hallo all, New information found on marriage license.


Friedrich ONKEN had a Plants & flowers greenhouse in Leerhafe, Ostfriesland,
Germany.  He married Maria Groot



Friedrich had 4 children: Wilhelm F. ONKEN: born on 23 Jul 1885 in Leerhafe Ostfriesland Germany -- Immigrated to USA arriving March 18, 1902 at Ellis Island. Married & died in Benson,
Illinois USA -- He is my husband's grandfather.



Friedrich ONKEN was born in Germany. He died in Germany? He took over a
Family greenhouse?

Johann C. ONKEN was born about 1880 in Leerhafe, Ostfriesland, Germany. He immigrated on 8 Mar 1895 to Iowa. He married, had no children and he died in
Wheaton, DuPage County, Illinois.



Marie ONKEN was born in Germany. She married and they had a casket business in Germany which they moved to Greece. She died in Athens, Greece?



Thank you for the help!


Laraine Wilson Wessels
Peoria, Illinois
lwessels(a)yahoo.com
			
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Königinen von Hannover

Date: 2006/02/25 04:42:20
From: Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>

Dirk:  Entschuldigen Sie mir, bitte, mein schlechte deutsch.  Die Königin vermutlich war Friedrike von Mecklinburg-Strelitz, Königin Ernst Augusts, der 1837-1851 reichte.  Aber Friedrike starb in 1841.  Weil Angleke bis 1865 nicht verheirate, muss sie auch unter der Princessin Marie ( später Konigin Marie) von Sachsen-Anhalt diente.  Marie was Königin von König Georg V nach seinen Vaters Todt bis 1866, als Preussen Hannover beiegte.  Hoffentlich ist diese ein bischen Hilfe.     Jane


Jane Swan
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

Re: [HN] Help "TOPONOMASTICS"

Date: 2006/02/25 11:22:16
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

<gale(a)bosche.info> schrieb:
> Hi Jerry:
... 
> Hans Peter Albers gave you some fairly recent addresses,
> but the birth dates of some are over 200 years ago.  There
> may not be any knowledge of your ancestors.  But if you
> can't find any other information, by all means give them a
> try.
...

Hello Gale Bosh and other Listers,

it is exactly in my sense, to follow the different possible pathes in this succession.
1. take the given exact informations and lookup the given places by using the parishbooks and other gathered informations like census etc. and try then 2. try to find the place by other means as for example "toponomastics", which should be the scientific name for bringing together names and places. Some remarks to this.

Here where live - nearby the river ELBE - once has been a border between the historical Germans and Slavonic populations. As far as generations and thousands of yaers later one could not determine anymore the spread of each people it was tried to findthese borders by taking the names of persons and landscapes and find a solution by using the different languages and their spread for finding the former borders. 

This method depends on the supposition of a low degrade of personal mobility, which is given as much more as we go back into history. It is because of this different degrades of mobility between Europe and America - although we live at the same time (hope so!)- that this method works still much more in Europe then in Northern America. When for example ten percent of a family emmigrated and this 10 percentage should be also the general rate of immigrated, 90 percent of the given name remained at the place and with that the probability that the connection between a family name and the specific place name ist traditioned. The Immigrant to USA first would have to tenth "himself" by marriage and childs to create and equal family-research situation before leaving the first place of arrival for another place. And this should not have been the reality in general.

It is by this more mathematical and mechanical reasons for the spread of names, that in Europe "200 years ago" in family-name-place-tradition is by all growth in personal mobility here too still not the same argument as for the continent born out of mobilty. It is in other words not seldom the case, that the families are traditioned the same place over the hundred of years and documented even for this time by the parishbooks. There are no statistics, but I would estimate the probabilty that the name of an emmigrated person is still present on his place of origin for about 50 percent. It would be an perhaps interesting query under descendants of German immigrants today to find out how right or wrong this percentage is.

What does this all lead to ? In short: to the general sense of researches by telefone direc-tories in case of loss of local hints in other documents for the next place of origin. For the one used to German geographics so well being able to associate each directory given place on a map in mind this works already by just reading names and places to get the impression of the region of centred occurence of a name. For the not used there is the possibility of doing this kind of "toponomastics" by taking a map and making a cross at every place name out of the directory and get a visible picture of the actual spread of the name by that. 

That all is no kingsway to find a place of origin, but has shown sometimes very good results, as it narrows the region to further economical research to often a fractional part of the whole country. There might be also inhereted a cost reduction effect for those who have to search the needle in hay by ordering film after film for each place of occurence of his name by ordering these informations in the row of probabilities which varies with the number of still existing bearers of the name. 

At last again, this is only a method for the otherwise hopeless cases; in any case one should prefer to find a documentated place of origin and start right away with the right parishbook.

Good luck in all your researches and best wishes for  the weekend

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel



[HN] Stuckwisch help

Date: 2006/02/25 15:18:36
From: jerry <malbergen(a)yahoo.com>

Hallo,  Thank you Hans, Barbara, and Gale for your
suggestions.  I'll try to follow up on them.
Jerry

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

[HN] Suche nach Personen von einem Foto von 1917

Date: 2006/02/25 16:55:25
From: GenHofstaedt <GenHofstaedt(a)aol.com>

Hallo Listen,
 
ich stelle meine Frage an mehre Listen um dadurch ein breite Streuung zu  
erzielen. Ich habe ein Foto vom Februar 1917. Auf dem Foto sind neben meiner  
Urgroßmutter, meinem Großvater als Zweijähriger und einer Ihrer Schwägerinnen  
noch sechs weitere Frauen abgebildet, alle auf Schlittschuhen. Das Bild wurde in 
 Altenberg, dem heutigen Kelmis aufgenommen. Kelmis ist heute belgisch und 
liegt  ganz in der Nähe von Moresnet. Auch Aachen ist nicht sehr weit. Meine  
Hoffnung, daß es davon noch mehr Abzüge gibt, besteht darin, daß meine  
Urgroßmutter dieses Foto als Ansichtkarte benutzt hat und mindestens zweimal  
verschickt hat. Vielleicht haben das die anderen Frauen auch getan und ihrer  Familie 
dieses Foto geschickt. Desweiteren hatte meine Urgroßmutter von ihrer  
Schwägerin aus Hamburg besuch. Wenn jemand zu Kriegszeiten 600 km weit fährt um  
seinen Bruder und dessen Frau zu besuchen haben dies bestimmt auch andere getan.  
Also wem ist ein Foto mit acht Schlittschuhläuferinne und einem zweijährigen  
Jungen bekannt. Ich bin für jeden Hinweis dankbar, der mir  weiterhilft.
 
Gruß
 
Jens (Hofstaedt)
 

Re: [HN] Help "TOPONOMASTICS"

Date: 2006/02/25 18:28:13
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Hans Peter:

Your comment that the German families have not been mobile supprised me. You estimate that 50% of the of people who emmigrated can still find their name in the town of their ancestor's origin. Maybe I will start writing some letters to the Hoya area.

My thoughts were that with two major wars and the changes in the European economy, the German people would be like leaves in a wind and scattered all over. It is obvious that I am wrong.

I must also explain the reason for my error in thought. In the States, economy seems to be the major factor for the movement of people. During WWII many people went to industrial areas where there were lots of new jobs. With the increase of very large farm equipment the need for people in rural areas has decreased. There are finanancial centers, Insurance centers, electronics centers, etc., so people go to the jobs.

My brother moved 13 times during his carear and in my job, which was very stable, I worked at 5 different locations.

On the other hand, I know people living in San Francisco, who have not been across the Bay to Oakland, which requires the crossing of one bridge.

Gale Bösche
Researching Bösche and Neddermeyer
of Anderten Amt. Hoya

On 25 Feb 2006 09:17 GMT
 320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de wrote:
<gale(a)bosche.info> schrieb:
Hi Jerry:
...
Hans Peter Albers gave you some fairly recent addresses,
but the birth dates of some are over 200 years ago. There
may not be any knowledge of your ancestors.  But if you
can't find any other information, by all means give them a
try.
...

Hello Gale Bosh and other Listers,

it is exactly in my sense, to follow the different possible pathes in this succession. 1. take the given exact informations and lookup the given places by using the parishbooks and other gathered informations like census etc. and try then 2. try to find the place by other means as for example "toponomastics", which should be the scientific name for bringing together names and places. Some remarks to this.

Here where live - nearby the river ELBE - once has been a border between the historical Germans and Slavonic populations. As far as generations and thousands of yaers later one could not determine anymore the spread of each people it was tried to findthese borders by taking the names of persons and landscapes and find a solution by using the different languages and their spread for finding the former borders. This method depends on the supposition of a low degrade of personal mobility, which is given as much more as we go back into history. It is because of this different degrades of mobility between Europe and America - although we live at the same time (hope so!)- that this method works still much more in Europe then in Northern America. When for example ten percent of a family emmigrated and this 10 percentage should be also the general rate of immigrated, 90 percent of the given name remained at the place and with that the probability that the connection between a family name and the specific place name ist traditioned. The Immigrant to USA first would have to tenth "himself" by marriage and childs to create and equal family-research situation before leaving the first place of arrival for another place. And this should not have been the reality in general.

It is by this more mathematical and mechanical reasons for the spread of names, that in Europe "200 years ago" in family-name-place-tradition is by all growth in personal mobility here too still not the same argument as for the continent born out of mobilty. It is in other words not seldom the case, that the families are traditioned the same place over the hundred of years and documented even for this time by the parishbooks. There are no statistics, but I would estimate the probabilty that the name of an emmigrated person is still present on his place of origin for about 50 percent. It would be an perhaps interesting query under descendants of German immigrants today to find out how right or wrong this percentage is.

What does this all lead to ? In short: to the general sense of researches by telefone direc-tories in case of loss of local hints in other documents for the next place of origin. For the one used to German geographics so well being able to associate each directory given place on a map in mind this works already by just reading names and places to get the impression of the region of centred occurence of a name. For the not used there is the possibility of doing this kind of "toponomastics" by taking a map and making a cross at every place name out of the directory and get a visible picture of the actual spread of the name by that. That all is no kingsway to find a place of origin, but has shown sometimes very good results, as it narrows the region to further economical research to often a fractional part of the whole country. There might be also inhereted a cost reduction effect for those who have to search the needle in hay by ordering film after film for each place of occurence of his name by ordering these informations in the row of probabilities which varies with the number of still existing bearers of the name. At last again, this is only a method for the otherwise hopeless cases; in any case one should prefer to find a documentated place of origin and start right away with the right parishbook.

Good luck in all your researches and best wishes for the weekend

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Help "TOPONOMASTICS"

Date: 2006/02/25 20:52:34
From: Janice Anderson <camelot2(a)citlink.net>

I traced some of my German ancestors back to Fabianki in Russian occupied Poland from 1800 forward.  According to the history records, German farmers moved from some part of Germany to be farmers in Poland.  Several went back to Germany. Then left from Hamburg to the United States and settled in Buffalo, New York about 1900. There they did settled down. The descendants still live in that area. I have yet to find where they originated from in Germany prior to 1800.

Jan A. 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: gale(a)bosche.info 
  To: Hannover-L 
  Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 10:27 AM
  Subject: Re: [HN] Help "TOPONOMASTICS"


  Hi Hans Peter:

  Your comment that the German families have not been mobile 
  supprised me.  You estimate that 50% of the of people who 
  emmigrated can still find their name in the town of their 
  ancestor's origin.  Maybe I will start writing some 
  letters to the Hoya area.

  My thoughts were that with two major wars and the changes 
  in the European economy, the German people would be like 
  leaves in a wind and scattered all over.  It is obvious 
  that I am wrong.

  I must also explain the reason for my error in thought. In 
  the States, economy seems to be the major factor for the 
  movement of people.  During WWII many people went to 
  industrial areas where there were lots of new jobs.  With 
  the increase of very large farm equipment the need for 
  people in rural areas has decreased.  There are 
  finanancial centers, Insurance centers, electronics 
  centers, etc., so people go to the jobs.

  My brother moved 13 times during his carear and in my job, 
  which was very stable, I worked at 5 different locations.

  On the other hand, I know people living in San Francisco, 
  who have not been across the Bay to Oakland, which 
  requires the crossing of one bridge.

  Gale Bösche
  Researching Bösche and Neddermeyer
  of Anderten Amt. Hoya



Re: [HN] Help "TOPONOMASTICS"

Date: 2006/02/25 21:19:28
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi,

     One thing those of us who live in the comparatively huge country of the
United States must remember:  Germany is said to be about the same size of
Montana!!  That shocked me when I first heard that. France is about the size
of Texas. In Hannover the Gügelmeyers (few as they are) are all in the same
area in Germany where the family or families lived before they came to the
USA. Hans Peter is right again!

Barbara



on 2/25/06 10:27 AM, gale(a)bosche.info at gale(a)bosche.info wrote:

> Hi Hans Peter:
> 
> Your comment that the German families have not been mobile
> supprised me.  You estimate that 50% of the of people who
> emmigrated can still find their name in the town of their
> ancestor's origin.  Maybe I will start writing some
> letters to the Hoya area.
> 
> My thoughts were that with two major wars and the changes
> in the European economy, the German people would be like
> leaves in a wind and scattered all over.  It is obvious
> that I am wrong.
> 
> I must also explain the reason for my error in thought. In
> the States, economy seems to be the major factor for the
> movement of people.  During WWII many people went to
> industrial areas where there were lots of new jobs.  With
> the increase of very large farm equipment the need for
> people in rural areas has decreased.  There are
> finanancial centers, Insurance centers, electronics
> centers, etc., so people go to the jobs.
> 
> My brother moved 13 times during his carear and in my job,
> which was very stable, I worked at 5 different locations.
> 
> On the other hand, I know people living in San Francisco,
> who have not been across the Bay to Oakland, which
> requires the crossing of one bridge.
> 
> Gale Bösche
> Researching Bösche and Neddermeyer
> of Anderten Amt. Hoya
> 
> On 25 Feb 2006 09:17 GMT
> 320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de wrote:
>> <gale(a)bosche.info> schrieb:
>>> Hi Jerry:
>> ... 
>>> Hans Peter Albers gave you some fairly recent addresses,
>>> but the birth dates of some are over 200 years ago.
>>> There
>>> may not be any knowledge of your ancestors.  But if you
>>> can't find any other information, by all means give them
>>> a
>>> try.
>> ...
>> 
>> Hello Gale Bosh and other Listers,
>> 
>> it is exactly in my sense, to follow the different
>> possible pathes in this succession.
>> 1. take the given exact informations and lookup the
>> given places by using the parishbooks and other gathered
>> informations like census etc. and try then 2. try to find
>> the place by other means as for example "toponomastics",
>> which should be the scientific name for bringing together
>> names and places. Some remarks to this.
>> 
>> Here where live - nearby the river ELBE - once has been
>> a border between the historical Germans and Slavonic
>> populations. As far as generations and thousands of yaers
>> later one could not determine anymore the spread of each
>> people it was tried to findthese borders by taking the
>> names of persons and landscapes and find a solution by
>> using the different languages and their spread for
>> finding the former borders.
>> 
>> This method depends on the supposition of a low degrade
>> of personal mobility, which is given as much more as we
>> go back into history. It is because of this different
>> degrades of mobility between Europe and America -
>> although we live at the same time (hope so!)- that this
>> method works still much more in Europe then in Northern
>> America. When for example ten percent of a family
>> emmigrated and this 10 percentage should be also the
>> general rate of immigrated, 90 percent of the given name
>> remained at the place and with that the probability that
>> the connection between a family name and the specific
>> place name ist traditioned. The Immigrant to USA first
>> would have to tenth "himself" by marriage and childs to
>> create and equal family-research situation before leaving
>> the first place of arrival for another place. And this
>> should not have been the reality in general.
>> 
>> It is by this more mathematical and mechanical reasons
>> for the spread of names, that in Europe "200 years ago"
>> in family-name-place-tradition is by all growth in
>> personal mobility here too still not the same argument as
>> for the continent born out of mobilty. It is in other
>> words not seldom the case, that the families are
>> traditioned the same place over the hundred of years and
>> documented even for this time by the parishbooks. There
>> are no statistics, but I would estimate the probabilty
>> that the name of an emmigrated person is still present on
>> his place of origin for about 50 percent. It would be an
>> perhaps interesting query under descendants of German
>> immigrants today to find out how right or wrong this
>> percentage is.
>> 
>> What does this all lead to ? In short: to the general
>> sense of researches by telefone direc-tories in case of
>> loss of local hints in other documents for the next place
>> of origin. For the one used to German geographics so well
>> being able to associate each directory given place on a
>> map in mind this works already by just reading names and
>> places to get the impression of the region of centred
>> occurence of a name. For the not used there is the
>> possibility of doing this kind of "toponomastics" by
>> taking a map and making a cross at every place name out
>> of the directory and get a visible picture of the actual
>> spread of the name by that.
>> 
>> That all is no kingsway to find a place of origin, but
>> has shown sometimes very good results, as it narrows the
>> region to further economical research to often a
>> fractional part of the whole country. There might be also
>> inhereted a cost reduction effect for those who have to
>> search the needle in hay by ordering film after film for
>> each place of occurence of his name by ordering these
>> informations in the row of probabilities which varies
>> with the number of still existing bearers of the name.
>> 
>> At last again, this is only a method for the otherwise
>> hopeless cases; in any case one should prefer to find a
>> documentated place of origin and start right away with
>> the right parishbook.
>> 
>> Good luck in all your researches and best wishes for
>> the weekend
>> 
>> Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel
>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Help "TOPONOMASTICS"

Date: 2006/02/25 21:54:57
From: Mona <Mona(a)Sandyview.info>

I think that works for Hannover ancestors, or other western Germany ancestors. However, many of mine came from Pommern and Neumark Brandenburg -- areas from where all the Germans were expelled at the end of WWII. I think they scattered.

Mona



--
Mona Houser
Mona(a)sandyview.info
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/
Buffalo Co. NEGenWeb - http://www.rootsweb.com/~nebuffal/

Re: [HN] Help "TOPONOMASTICS"

Date: 2006/02/25 22:46:29
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

<gale(a)bosche.info> schrieb:
> Hi Hans Peter:
> 
> Your comment that the German families have not been mobile 
> supprised me.  You estimate that 50% of the of people who 
> emmigrated can still find their name in the town of their 
> ancestor's origin.  Maybe I will start writing some 
> letters to the Hoya area. 
...

Hello Gale, 

they were mobile and are in a growing amount for the same reasons as in all industrialized countries, but as they weren`t  a l l  mobile there are better chances that some remained and traditioned the family name up to now. But there may also be a more intensive mentality for going back to the place which is felt as the family place. So my family had several changes in living place because of the work with the railway of my father. That why and lateron studies at different universities made me have now a list of 6 different places, but also being now simply 17 km apart from the village where my fathers people can be found since about not to far after the Thirty-Year-War. Future Generations will have a lot of more work to trace back their anchestors as we do now have.

By the way I had some 25 years ago a female neighbour in a students home in Hamburg studying archaelogy. She was busy with trials of digging out vestiges of the old "Hammaburg", which goes back to the beginnings of Hamburg about 800 or maybe earlier. Don`t know what had become of her, but she was from Bremen and her name was Gudrun Neddermeier. She must have been born about 1954 +/- 2 years. So one more for your archive. Good luck with Hoya area.

Greetings Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel



Re: [HN] Help FABIANKI

Date: 2006/02/25 22:46:29
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"Janice Anderson" <camelot2(a)citlink.net> schrieb:
> I traced some of my German ancestors back to Fabianki in Russian occupied Poland from 1800 forward.  According to the history records, German farmers moved from some part of Germany to be farmers in Poland.  Several went back to Germany. Then left from Hamburg to the United States and settled in Buffalo, New York about 1900. There they did settled down. The descendants still live in that area. I have yet to find where they originated from in Germany prior to 1800.
> 
> Jan A. 

Hello Janice Anderson,

there are no "FABIANKI" today, but "FABIANKE", what might be only the German reading, repec-tively "... -ki" is only the Russian writing. Is "FABIANKOWITS" a possible writing ? there are four in 1998 and possibly a Polish or Slavonic variation of the name. 

Accidentally there lived and lives a family Fabianke in the same place as i do, here in Bienenbüttel. My parents and the corresponding generation Fabianke were close friends. The living Fabianke will be to young in age to have more detailed informations. What I know is that they lived before 1945 in Pommern, which lateron became part of the GDR. 

The telefone directory shows 1998 about 37 Fabianke, unfortunately with no special pattern of spread. There are still several in Hamburg, also in Berlin, but then not two in one place. So, sorry. It doesn`t work in every case. 

I will ask the here living Fabianke these days, if they have documents which go so far back.

On the other hand about 30 letters to the different bearers of the of the name today might be perhaps a worthwhile investment. The Inland fee for a letter of no more weight than 20 gramms in Germany is 55 Cents in Euro. Sending them over gathered, stamped and ready adressed in one package might be a possibiliy to reduce cost one more. So if you have nobody to unwrap the package and deliver the single letters to the local post ou might use me and my adress. The language in the letter should be In German and English.

Sorry for being of no more directly help, but what are the given dates of your eldest documented FABIANKI concerning place and personal data ?

Greetings

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel




[HN] WISSEL in der Mitte des 16.Jahrhunderts

Date: 2006/02/25 23:47:19
From: Drwinde <Drwinde(a)aol.com>

Ihr lieben Leut'!
Ein Ruf in die Wüste!
Weiß jemand was über die älteren Vorfahren von:

Name:    Prof.theol.Dr.jur. Johannes WISSEL
Geburt:    1584 Neustadt/Rbg, Niedersachsen, Deutschland
Tod:    1657
Ausbildung:    Juraprofessor in Helmstedt
Beruf:    Konsistorialrat des Herzogtums Braunschweig-Lüneburg (Ämter 
Neustadt am Rübenberge und Göttingen) und Hannoverscher Hofgerichtsassessor.
Vater:    Heinrich WISSEL (1543-1624)
Großvater: Heinrich Wissel  (1543 - 1624) "Erzpräfekt" in Göttingen
UrGroßvater Staats Wissel 1542 Bürger in Hannover
2UrGroßvater: Cord Wissel +1542 in Hannover
Mutter:    Anna HELMOLD (-1602)

Ehegattin: Margarete ULRICHS (VERDEN)
Geburt:    29.5.1604    Hannover, D
Vater:    Dr.jur. Jacob ULRICHS (VERDEN) (1572-1609)
Mutter:    Anna SCHRADER (1576-1613)
Ehe:    14.8.1627    Braunschweig, Niedersachsen, D
Kinder:    Anna Margarethe (1631-1671)

Insbesondere Infos über eine mögliche Verbindung des Cord (oder Conrad) 
WISSEL (+1542) zum Amt Diepenau sind für mich von Interesse!
Antworten bitte AUCH an drwinde(a)aol.com als Kopie schicken!
Gruß aus Bremen!

Dr.med. Cord Winde
Bremen / Deutschland
e.mail: drwinde(a)aol.com



Dr.med. Cord Winde
Bremen / Deutschland
e.mail: drwinde(a)aol.com

[HN] Help "TOPONOMASTICS"

Date: 2006/02/26 00:32:02
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hallo Jan,
On the face of it, it looks like your ancestors migrated during the 5 year reign (1796-1801) of the well liked Russian Emperor Paul and his 2nd wife Princess Dorothea of Wuertemberg. Whilst acknowledging your quest is rather like searching for a needle in a haystack - maybe the first places to look in the telephone book for descendants is from the following three areas?

...Catherine The Great,  Empress of Russia 1762-1796
(born Sophie Augusta Frederica of Anhalt-Zerbst was born on 21 April, 1729 in Shtettin and died on 6 November, 1796 in St. Petersburg.) She was descended from the North-West German noble family.

Catherine invited to Russia German colonists promising them defence by law, freedom of faith and tax benefits.

When her son Paul was old enough Catherine arranged a marriage with Wilhelmina of Hesse-Darmstadt who died in childbirth in 1773 then in 1776 he married Princess Dorothea of Wuertemberg.
Zsar Paul died 1801....

Good luck,
Rena in England.
=
I traced some of my German ancestors back to Fabianki in Russian occupied Poland from 1800 forward. According to the history records, German farmers moved from some part of Germany to be farmers in Poland. Several went back to Germany. Then left from Hamburg to the United States and settled in Buffalo, New York about 1900. There they did settled down. The descendants still live in that area. I have yet to find where they originated from in Germany prior to 1800.

Jan A. From: "Janice Anderson" camelot2(a)citlink.net


on 2/25/06 10:27 AM, gale(a)bosche.info at gale(a)bosche.info wrote:
Hello Janice Anderson,
there are no "FABIANKI" today, but "FABIANKE", what might be only the German reading, repec-tively "... -ki" is only the Russian writing. Is "FABIANKOWITS" a possible writing ? there are four in 1998 and possibly a Polish or Slavonic variation of the name.

Accidentally there lived and lives a family Fabianke in the same place as i do, here in Bienenbüttel. My parents and the corresponding generation Fabianke were close friends. The living Fabianke will be to young in age to have more detailed informations. What I know is that they lived before 1945 in Pommern, which lateron became part of the GDR.

it is exactly in my sense, to follow the different
possible pathes in this succession.
1. take the given exact informations and lookup the
given places by using the parishbooks and other gathered
informations like census etc. and try then 2. try to find
the place by other means as for example "toponomastics",
which should be the scientific name for bringing together
names and places. Some remarks to this.

Here where live - nearby the river ELBE - once has been
a border between the historical Germans and Slavonic
populations. As far as generations and thousands of yaers
later one could not determine anymore the spread of each
people it was tried to findthese borders by taking the
names of persons and landscapes and find a solution by
using the different languages and their spread for
finding the former borders.

This method depends on the supposition of a low degrade
of personal mobility, which is given as much more as we
go back into history. It is because of this different
degrades of mobility between Europe and America -
although we live at the same time (hope so!)- that this
method works still much more in Europe then in Northern
America. When for example ten percent of a family
emmigrated and this 10 percentage should be also the
general rate of immigrated, 90 percent of the given name
remained at the place and with that the probability that
the connection between a family name and the specific
place name ist traditioned. The Immigrant to USA first
would have to tenth "himself" by marriage and childs to
create and equal family-research situation before leaving
the first place of arrival for another place. And this
should not have been the reality in general.

It is by this more mathematical and mechanical reasons
for the spread of names, that in Europe "200 years ago