Monatsdigest

Re: [HN] Hartke family and Kamlage family

Date: 2006/01/01 01:24:00
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Lois,

      The LDS has various church listings on microfilm for the Evangelical
and the Catholic churches in Ankum.  They are duplicates and are incomplete.
However, you never know what you may find there. It may be worth a search.

     What church did the Hartke and Kamlage families belong to?

     Have you tried various combinations of words with Hartke and the
Kamlage names on Google?  You can sometimes stumble on someone's pedigree
online that may be helpful.

     There are quite a number of Hartkes on the emigration list of Osnabrück
but not one by the name of Heinrich Louis Hartke:

PERS    Hartke, Anna Marie    26419
PERS    Hartke, Anton Joseph    7445
PERS    Hartke, Anton Joseph    7446
PERS    Hartke, Bernhard    7426
PERS    Hartke, Eleonore Henriette    25535
PERS    Hartke, Elisabeth    7455
PERS    Hartke, Friedrich Wilhelm    26419
PERS    Hartke, Hermann Heinrich August    24607
PERS    Hartke, Hermann Heinrich August    24608
PERS    Hartke, Johann Diedrich    6816
PERS    Hartke, Johann Eberhard    7321
PERS    Hartke, Johann Friedrich    26419
PERS    Hartke, Johann Friedrich    6815
PERS    Hartke, Johann Friedrich    6816
PERS    Hartke, Johann Friedrich, senior    26419
PERS    Hartke, Johann Heinrich    7321
PERS    Hartke, Johann Heinrich    7447
PERS    Hartke, Johann Heinrich    7449
PERS    Hartke, Johann Hermann Bernhard    7447
PERS    Hartke, Johann Hermann Bernhard    7448
PERS    Hartke, Johann Hermann Bernhard    7449
PERS    Hartke, männl    25536
PERS    Hartke, männl.    25535
PERS    Hartke, männl. + weibl.    7446
PERS    Hartke, Marie Elisabeth    26419

     I could help you to explore those names if you think there are any that
would fit.  I know Louis is often listed as Ludwig, but there are none with
that name.  Heinrich may not have been his first name listed on this list.
If you had a definite name match, you can order the emigration record and
that would tell you the place of origin.  There are over 300 Harkte names in
the German telephone book today.

    There is only one name listed in the Osnabrück emigration archives for
Kamlage -  Hermann Heinrich from Bramsche. There are over 100 listings for
Kamlage in the German phone book today, 4 of them in Bersenbrück near Ankum.

    Sorry I couldn't find anything more definite.

Good luck,
Barbara 




on 12/21/05 5:25 PM, Lois Kamlage at lkamlage(a)your-net.com wrote:

> Hello, I am new to your list and would like to know if any one has seen in
> their seaches the name of Heinrich Louis Hartke b. 1853 in Hanover, Germany.
> He came to Cincinnati, Ohio and married Sophia Freeman, possibly spelled
> Friemann. I am trying to find his roots in Germany and where to look on
> microfilm to find him. Don't have a clue.
> 
> Am also looking for any info I can get on the Joseph Kamlage family. Joseph
> married Maria Adelheid Holthaus. They had at least 1 child Gerhard Heinrich
> Kamlage b. 1834. Gerhard married Maria Catharina Busch in 1861 and they had 5
> children: Maria Elisabeth, Johann Heinrich, Hermann Bernard, Maria Elisabeth
> Bernardina, and an unknown child. Can't read the german to determine who or
> what sex it was. This family was from Ankum, Germany.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Lois Kamlage
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Place names

Date: 2006/01/01 01:41:42
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi Lila,
     Those places you speak of are not all that far apart.  There had to be
some interaction with people from neighboring towns. And surely, they can't
all marry people in the same small town!  When a son is born in one town, he
may have to move to another area to find work as well as a wife(!).
    I'll let the Germans on the list explain the regions.
Barbara



on 12/21/05 8:11 PM, Lila Burmeister at lburmeister(a)meekercoop.net wrote:

> I'm wondering if someone can tell me how places in Germany are named.
> 
> Lower Saxony is a state -- is this the same as Niedersachsen?
> Uelzen is a district in Lower Saxony?
> 
> Then within the districts, are places integrated municipalities and
> within those, municipalities?
> Where does the Parish fit into all of this?
> 
> The locations that I am working with are Eddelsdorf, Gruensvolde,
> Bornsen, Bardgorf, Bostelwiebeck, Altenmedingen (Parish) and Varendorf.
> 
> Within my notes I have that Eddelsdorf and Bostelwiebeck belong to
> Parish Altenmedingen
> 
> The information on my ancestors that  I have is:
> Jurgen Beneke and Catherine Riest were married at Altenmedingen in
> 1829.
> Jurgen was born at Eddelstorf in 1799 and was a "hauswirt" there --
> is that farmer?
> Catherine was born at Bostelwiebeck in 1805.
> 
> Jurgen & Catherine's son, Johann Henry Beneke was born at Eddelsdorf
> in 1840
> Johann was married in an unknown place to Elizabeth Backhaus,
> Elizabeth was born in 1853 in Gruensvolde according to one source,
> and Bornsen according to another source.
> 
> Johann & Elizabeth's son, Hermann was born at Varendorf in 1879.
> Johann & Elizabeth's son, Gustav was born at Eddelstorf in 1882.
> 
> All of them have Varendorf listed as their residence at the time of
> emigration to America in 1883.
> 
> These places are all so close together on the map, but would people
> have moved around that much?
> Where would information for people from these places be recorded?
> 
> Thanks for your help & have a wonderful Christmas!
> Lila
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area

Date: 2006/01/01 04:07:03
From: Gary Stoltman <stopan(a)optonline.net>

Hi Pat

You made me look it up. This is from Nate Williams, Wittenburg U. site http://www.wfa-usa.org/new/germanamer.htm

"Robert Prager moved to the United States from Dresden, Germany, in 1905 and felt a strong sense of loyalty to the United States when war was declared on his homeland in 1917. Working as a miner just outside of Collinsville, Illinois, Prager applied for membership into the local miners union, but was denied because he was suspected to be a German agent who was plotting to blow up the mine in which he worked. After reading a statement pleading Prager's case for membership into the union, a group of local miners forced Prager to show his patriotism by parading through the streets of Collinsville while kissing the American flag and singing the Star Spangled Banner. After being taken into police custody for safety purposes earlier that evening, Prager was found once again by the now drunken and hostile mob and forced back into the streets. The mob marched Prager just outside of town where he was to meet his fate in the early morning of April 5, 1918. The mob threw a rope over a tree branch and tightened the noose around Prager's neck.

There was a trial of eleven defendants who were accused of his murder. They were all acquitted and set free. Despite the judge's best efforts to convince the jury that it was not the loyalty of Robert Prager to the United States that was on trial, the jury ignored the guilt of the eleven men who played a physical part in Prager's hanging. After the verdict was read, a member of the jury had this to say; "Well, I guess nobody can say we aren't loyal now... we've done justice of the right sort for Madison County."

Gary
----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Knight" <pknight1(a)fidnet.com>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area


Gary

Was that the hanging of the man, who murdered his wife and young son
because she practiced her Catholic religion?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Stoltman" <stopan(a)optonline.net>
To: "Rena MCCARTHY" <Rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>; <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area


Hi Rena

"Bittersweet" It would be a good title! If I remember correctly, the
original English were 'run out of town' to Normandy. All of the current
Brits are Germanic descendants?

There were too many 'krauts' in St Louis for there to be any  real
violence
agianst the Germans in WWI. However, across the Mississippi River in
Illinois, there was a famous hanging.

Gary


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rena McCarthy" <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:18 AM
Subject: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area


> I've enjoyed reading accounts of how Hannovarians fared in the
Americas -
> here's an account of my bloodline:
>
> The last 3 wars on the European mainland were the reason I wasn't told
> until
> the morning of my wedding day in the 1960's that my mother's mother was
> the
> daughter of a German, or Austrian as an aunt describes him and as Gary
> mentioned bombs have destroyed family heirlooms, documents and archive
> records.  Luckily a daughter-in-law of my gt.grandfather Hermann Flamme
> was
> the type who wouldn't take silence as an answer :-) and thus I have > been
> able to piece together a life of hardship in the KOH and England for my
> direct line. With the help of Klaus I found the Catholic Flamme family.
> Franz Flamme the miller and houseowner of Liebenberg could read and
write,
> he had a wife and family who could also read & write but he strayed > from
> the
> straight and narrow and in 1823 Heinrich Flamme was born to a Lutheran
> unwed
> mother.  Heinrich, then a servant at Immenrode married Sophie Ehlers a
> farmers daughter in Gross Mahner June 1854.  If he had learnt to read
and
> write he would have discovered the vicar had entered the Sept. 1854
> baptism
> details of his new son incorrectly - namely father & son's names were
> interpolated.   The court records of the time show provision of a
building
> specifically for widows, which gives an idea of upheaval. After a > period
> of
> calm the record shows a massive rise in population. With unrest > rumbling
> in
> 1864-ish my gt.grandfather Hermann was brought across to England with 2
> other children to have a chance of a 'better' life busking the streets
of
> England and later on at 16 yrs old was officially working in a sweat
shop
> as
> a 'tailor'.  In 1852 the musical Bielstein family were living in
> Salzgitter
> and in 1861 they had set up a music school in Hull, England in 1871
> Hermann
> was living next door with his musician uncle Conrad Ehlers from
> Salzgitter.
> Conrad had fled his home years before to evade being mustered into the
> navy
> and I'm presuming this was about the time there was trouble between
> Austria
> and Denmark.  I assume there were differences in dialect between
villages
> in
> Hannover because 'Flamme' was written as 'Flemme' in the Salzgitter > 1852
> census and the same applied in England where Hermann's name was written
as
> 'Flemme'.  By the 1890's Herman was married, had a family and gone into
> business opening his first greengrocery shop which by 1899 had become
two
> shops and he branched out making his own recipe icecream but he'd had > to
> anglicise his name to 'Fleming' because there were rumblings in Europe
> stirred up by Bismarck 1890-1902 - (that's when the Kingdom of Hannover
> was
> lost to Britain who had gained it in a dowry centuries before.)   In
1900
> Herman was walking the streets looking for work. I've read Germans were
> targeted, shop windows broken etc.
>
> WWI came about because Britain went to the aid of Belgium who she had a
> treaty with.  It will surprise some of you to learn that Kaiser Bill
sent
> helium filled airships to bomb England.  Once again it didn't do to
> advertise you were of German descent.  Herman had to report to the
police
> station daily and his 3 youngest sons were conscripted and sent to
France
> with the Royal Army Medical Corp and official medal records show them > as
> 'FLEMME'.   His eldest son William Henry b1877 was eventually
commandeered
> into the army and perished in the Somme Sept 1918 aged 41 recorded with
> his
> Angliced surname of 'Fleming'. His cousin was sent to an alien's camp.
If
> my memory serves me right there were 12 million deaths in WWI. Bitter
> sweet
> is the knowledge that in 1914 reservist Heinrich Flamme died defending
> German, his homeland.  The Allies decided that the Great War would end
all
> wars and set about moving territorial boundaries - Britain organised
> Treaties with all and sundry and that's the key as to why we ventured
into
> Europe again.
>
> When Hitler decided to take back all that he considered was German land
in
> 1938 the rest of Europe was helpless because all the countries he
marched
> into had a treaty with Germany and all Hitler had to do was say he was
> looking after their interests.  At the time Britain had a pacifist
> government but once Hitler had moved into the country he didn't have a
> treaty with, Britain had to act (and I think it was Poland). Hitler > had
> secretly amassed thousands of war planes against our few dozen biplanes
> and
> monoplanes - we asked America for help and it came back in the form of
> manual warning sirens which came in handy for the blitzkreig on London
> :-))
> I noticed a comment about France - this country was split, the Vichy
> French
> were pleased to see Germany's advance and some French pilots defied
orders
> and flew their planes to England.  I rather liked the way Churchill put
it
> years later -"The French will never come to our aid - they owe us too
> much".
> Re the two Germanies: After the hostilities ceased, Winston Churchill,
who
> was ill at the time, was outmanoevred at Yalta by Lenin and the US
> President
> Trueman.  I haven't read Trueman's account of why he acted as he did.
>
> I haven't been able to find the official record of Herman's death but I
do
> know he died in the house he built with the help of his sons in a
> beautiful Yorkshire village. He'd planted an orchard of apple trees > and
> in the days of 'dry' toilets(johns) he'd built a wooden shed, inside
which
> he'd made double 'seats', one lower than the other for the visiting
> children. Up until the mid 1960's (when sewers were laid) a horse > drawn > covered wagon would visit each house in the village to empty the > toilets
> :-)
>
> Jb got it exactly right - I'm a royalist.  Like Holland our monarchy is
> only
> a figurehead, not an absolute ruler, non-political and whatever any
world
> leader says to her or asks advice on, it never goes any further. The
crown
> has a stabilizing effect and brings in more visitors than our Tony. We
can
> thank Oliver Cromwell for that - I think the dictator Franco must have
> copied Cromwell.  Presidents and prime ministers come and go and are
very
> expensive on the upkeep.
>
> Best Wishes to everyone for a healthy happy new year.
> Rena
> =
>    Certainly we all want this list to be lively and  informative.
> Historians-and genealogists-are vitally concerned with the  subject of
> origins, some to
> the extent it becomes an avocation or a  'disease'.  To find and
> understand
> origins we search for evidence. One of the fine qualities of this > list
> is
> that there are people who are  knowledgeable about where to find
evidence
> (archives, church records, civil and  military records, etc.) and they
> have
> been
> eager to share their knowledge with  others who are seeking information
> about the
> origins of their ancestors.
>
>    One of the unfortunate by-products of wars and  natural disasters is
> that
> the evidence we seek is either destroyed, damaged or  scattered,
sometimes
> in
> a manner that defies reason, like throwing all the  pieces of a puzzle
in
> the
> snow and then trying to reassemble the puzzle.   If we want to exercise
> our
> brains and get "back to genealogy & history in  the Hannover area",
could
> we
> not make an attempt to enumerate these sources of  evidence on the list
> and
> try
> to identify the events and movements in history  that influenced both
> emigration and immigration to the Hannover region?  Is  it possible to
> identify the
> topics that the members of the list would like the  list to address?
>
> I believe that when we shine light (focus attention) on a subject > it
> can
> bring both life and understanding.  I look  forward to the information
and
> perspective that the members of the list can  provide.
>
> Gary Beard
>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>
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Re: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area

Date: 2006/01/01 04:23:26
From: Patricia Knight <pknight1(a)fidnet.com>

Gary

A hundred years has passed and things haven't changed in many ways and that
goes for all countries.  Some other countries seem proud to hate Americans
they way that we hate others.

I think, personally, that we should not meddle in the business, wars or what
not for/or with any country. We are damned if, we do and damned if, we don't
so ....stay in our own land and take care of our own.....they come our way
then fight. Charity begins at home

I was speaking of a hanging that happened in the town square in Hamilton
County, IL. This was sometime before 1900.
It was gruesome....and the actual picture or drawing if, I recall is on the
internet...if, you go to Hamilton County, IL and look for the hanging , you
will get the whole story.

Seems he was of the Lutheran faith and she of the Catholic and she wanted to
have her children baptized in her faith...well, she left him and went to her
parents and baptized a little boy ...he followed and swore that he would
change and ...well...go to the site and see for yourself. It is as if, this
could be happening today....nothing changes!!!!

As long as there is religion, politics, greed and a need for... or want for
superiority ...things will never change.

Thanks for an interesting but, sad story....shame on us all.

Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Stoltman" <stopan(a)optonline.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area


> Hi Pat
>
> You made me look it up. This is from Nate Williams, Wittenburg U. site
> http://www.wfa-usa.org/new/germanamer.htm
>
> "Robert Prager moved to the United States from Dresden, Germany, in 1905
and
> felt a strong sense of loyalty to the United States when war was declared
on
> his homeland in 1917. Working as a miner just outside of Collinsville,
> Illinois, Prager applied for membership into the local miners union, but
was
> denied because he was suspected to be a German agent who was plotting to
> blow up the mine in which he worked. After reading a statement pleading
> Prager's case for membership into the union, a group of local miners
forced
> Prager to show his patriotism by parading through the streets of
> Collinsville while kissing the American flag and singing the Star Spangled
> Banner. After being taken into police custody for safety purposes earlier
> that evening, Prager was found once again by the now drunken and hostile
mob
> and forced back into the streets. The mob marched Prager just outside of
> town where he was to meet his fate in the early morning of April 5, 1918.
> The mob threw a rope over a tree branch and tightened the noose around
> Prager's neck.
>
> There was a trial of eleven defendants who were accused of his murder.
They
> were all acquitted and set free. Despite the judge's best efforts to
> convince the jury that it was not the loyalty of Robert Prager to the
United
> States that was on trial, the jury ignored the guilt of the eleven men who
> played a physical part in Prager's hanging. After the verdict was read, a
> member of the jury had this to say; "Well, I guess nobody can say we
aren't
> loyal now... we've done justice of the right sort for Madison County."
>
> Gary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patricia Knight" <pknight1(a)fidnet.com>
> To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area
>
>
> > Gary
> >
> > Was that the hanging of the man, who murdered his wife and young son
> > because she practiced her Catholic religion?
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gary Stoltman" <stopan(a)optonline.net>
> > To: "Rena MCCARTHY" <Rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>;
<hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 9:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area
> >
> >
> >> Hi Rena
> >>
> >> "Bittersweet" It would be a good title! If I remember correctly, the
> >> original English were 'run out of town' to Normandy. All of the current
> >> Brits are Germanic descendants?
> >>
> >> There were too many 'krauts' in St Louis for there to be any  real
> > violence
> >> agianst the Germans in WWI. However, across the Mississippi River in
> >> Illinois, there was a famous hanging.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Rena McCarthy" <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>
> >> To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:18 AM
> >> Subject: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area
> >>
> >>
> >> > I've enjoyed reading accounts of how Hannovarians fared in the
> > Americas -
> >> > here's an account of my bloodline:
> >> >
> >> > The last 3 wars on the European mainland were the reason I wasn't
told
> >> > until
> >> > the morning of my wedding day in the 1960's that my mother's mother
was
> >> > the
> >> > daughter of a German, or Austrian as an aunt describes him and as
Gary
> >> > mentioned bombs have destroyed family heirlooms, documents and
archive
> >> > records.  Luckily a daughter-in-law of my gt.grandfather Hermann
Flamme
> >> > was
> >> > the type who wouldn't take silence as an answer :-) and thus I have
> >> > been
> >> > able to piece together a life of hardship in the KOH and England for
my
> >> > direct line. With the help of Klaus I found the Catholic Flamme
family.
> >> > Franz Flamme the miller and houseowner of Liebenberg could read and
> > write,
> >> > he had a wife and family who could also read & write but he strayed
> >> > from
> >> > the
> >> > straight and narrow and in 1823 Heinrich Flamme was born to a
Lutheran
> >> > unwed
> >> > mother.  Heinrich, then a servant at Immenrode married Sophie Ehlers
a
> >> > farmers daughter in Gross Mahner June 1854.  If he had learnt to read
> > and
> >> > write he would have discovered the vicar had entered the Sept. 1854
> >> > baptism
> >> > details of his new son incorrectly - namely father & son's names were
> >> > interpolated.   The court records of the time show provision of a
> > building
> >> > specifically for widows, which gives an idea of upheaval. After a
> >> > period
> >> > of
> >> > calm the record shows a massive rise in population. With unrest
> >> > rumbling
> >> > in
> >> > 1864-ish my gt.grandfather Hermann was brought across to England with
2
> >> > other children to have a chance of a 'better' life busking the
streets
> > of
> >> > England and later on at 16 yrs old was officially working in a sweat
> > shop
> >> > as
> >> > a 'tailor'.  In 1852 the musical Bielstein family were living in
> >> > Salzgitter
> >> > and in 1861 they had set up a music school in Hull, England in 1871
> >> > Hermann
> >> > was living next door with his musician uncle Conrad Ehlers from
> >> > Salzgitter.
> >> > Conrad had fled his home years before to evade being mustered into
the
> >> > navy
> >> > and I'm presuming this was about the time there was trouble between
> >> > Austria
> >> > and Denmark.  I assume there were differences in dialect between
> > villages
> >> > in
> >> > Hannover because 'Flamme' was written as 'Flemme' in the Salzgitter
> >> > 1852
> >> > census and the same applied in England where Hermann's name was
written
> > as
> >> > 'Flemme'.  By the 1890's Herman was married, had a family and gone
into
> >> > business opening his first greengrocery shop which by 1899 had become
> > two
> >> > shops and he branched out making his own recipe icecream but he'd had
> >> > to
> >> > anglicise his name to 'Fleming' because there were rumblings in
Europe
> >> > stirred up by Bismarck 1890-1902 - (that's when the Kingdom of
Hannover
> >> > was
> >> > lost to Britain who had gained it in a dowry centuries before.)   In
> > 1900
> >> > Herman was walking the streets looking for work. I've read Germans
were
> >> > targeted, shop windows broken etc.
> >> >
> >> > WWI came about because Britain went to the aid of Belgium who she had
a
> >> > treaty with.  It will surprise some of you to learn that Kaiser Bill
> > sent
> >> > helium filled airships to bomb England.  Once again it didn't do to
> >> > advertise you were of German descent.  Herman had to report to the
> > police
> >> > station daily and his 3 youngest sons were conscripted and sent to
> > France
> >> > with the Royal Army Medical Corp and official medal records show them
> >> > as
> >> > 'FLEMME'.   His eldest son William Henry b1877 was eventually
> > commandeered
> >> > into the army and perished in the Somme Sept 1918 aged 41 recorded
with
> >> > his
> >> > Angliced surname of 'Fleming'. His cousin was sent to an alien's
camp.
> > If
> >> > my memory serves me right there were 12 million deaths in WWI. Bitter
> >> > sweet
> >> > is the knowledge that in 1914 reservist Heinrich Flamme died
defending
> >> > German, his homeland.  The Allies decided that the Great War would
end
> > all
> >> > wars and set about moving territorial boundaries - Britain organised
> >> > Treaties with all and sundry and that's the key as to why we ventured
> > into
> >> > Europe again.
> >> >
> >> > When Hitler decided to take back all that he considered was German
land
> > in
> >> > 1938 the rest of Europe was helpless because all the countries he
> > marched
> >> > into had a treaty with Germany and all Hitler had to do was say he
was
> >> > looking after their interests.  At the time Britain had a pacifist
> >> > government but once Hitler had moved into the country he didn't have
a
> >> > treaty with, Britain had to act (and I think it was Poland).  Hitler
> >> > had
> >> > secretly amassed thousands of war planes against our few dozen
biplanes
> >> > and
> >> > monoplanes - we asked America for help and it came back in the form
of
> >> > manual warning sirens which came in handy for the blitzkreig on
London
> >> > :-))
> >> > I noticed a comment about France - this country was split, the Vichy
> >> > French
> >> > were pleased to see Germany's advance and some French pilots defied
> > orders
> >> > and flew their planes to England.  I rather liked the way Churchill
put
> > it
> >> > years later -"The French will never come to our aid - they owe us too
> >> > much".
> >> > Re the two Germanies: After the hostilities ceased, Winston
Churchill,
> > who
> >> > was ill at the time, was outmanoevred at Yalta by Lenin and the US
> >> > President
> >> > Trueman.  I haven't read Trueman's account of why he acted as he did.
> >> >
> >> > I haven't been able to find the official record of Herman's death but
I
> > do
> >> > know he died in the house he built with the help of his sons in a
> >> > beautiful Yorkshire village.  He'd planted an orchard of apple trees
> >> > and
> >> > in the days of 'dry' toilets(johns) he'd built a wooden shed, inside
> > which
> >> > he'd made double 'seats', one lower than the other for the visiting
> >> > children.  Up until the mid 1960's (when sewers were laid) a horse
> >> > drawn
> >> > covered wagon would visit each house in the village to empty the
> >> > toilets
> >> > :-)
> >> >
> >> > Jb got it exactly right - I'm a royalist.  Like Holland our monarchy
is
> >> > only
> >> > a figurehead, not an absolute ruler, non-political and whatever any
> > world
> >> > leader says to her or asks advice on, it never goes any further. The
> > crown
> >> > has a stabilizing effect and brings in more visitors than our Tony.
We
> > can
> >> > thank Oliver Cromwell for that - I think the dictator Franco must
have
> >> > copied Cromwell.  Presidents and prime ministers come and go and are
> > very
> >> > expensive on the upkeep.
> >> >
> >> > Best Wishes to everyone for a healthy happy new year.
> >> > Rena
> >> > =
> >> >    Certainly we all want this list to be lively and  informative.
> >> > Historians-and genealogists-are vitally concerned with the  subject
of
> >> > origins, some to
> >> > the extent it becomes an avocation or a  'disease'.  To find and
> >> > understand
> >> > origins we search for evidence.   One of the fine qualities of this
> >> > list
> >> > is
> >> > that there are people who are  knowledgeable about where to find
> > evidence
> >> > (archives, church records, civil and  military records, etc.) and
they
> >> > have
> >> > been
> >> > eager to share their knowledge with  others who are seeking
information
> >> > about the
> >> > origins of their ancestors.
> >> >
> >> >    One of the unfortunate by-products of wars and  natural disasters
is
> >> > that
> >> > the evidence we seek is either destroyed, damaged or  scattered,
> > sometimes
> >> > in
> >> > a manner that defies reason, like throwing all the  pieces of a
puzzle
> > in
> >> > the
> >> > snow and then trying to reassemble the puzzle.   If we want to
exercise
> >> > our
> >> > brains and get "back to genealogy & history in  the Hannover area",
> > could
> >> > we
> >> > not make an attempt to enumerate these sources of  evidence on the
list
> >> > and
> >> > try
> >> > to identify the events and movements in history  that influenced both
> >> > emigration and immigration to the Hannover region?  Is  it possible
to
> >> > identify the
> >> > topics that the members of the list would like the  list to address?
> >> >
> >> >    I believe that when we shine light (focus  attention) on a subject
> >> > it
> >> > can
> >> > bring both life and understanding.  I look  forward to the
information
> > and
> >> > perspective that the members of the list can  provide.
> >> >
> >> > Gary Beard
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> > Hannover-L mailing list
> >> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> >> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.9/216 - Release Date:
> > 12/29/2005
> >> >
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Hannover-L mailing list
> >> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> >> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.9/217 - Release Date:
12/30/2005
> >
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] civil war

Date: 2006/01/01 04:32:41
From: Gary Stoltman <stopan(a)optonline.net>

Hi Werner

Try contacting Russel Gaj - russgaj(a)ix.netcom.com for Honkomp info in Missouri. Shows ancestors from Oldenburg.

Good hunting

Gary


----- Original Message ----- From: "Werner Honkomp" <werner(a)honkomp.de>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 4:10 AM
Subject: RE: [HN] civil war


Thank you Barbie,
but I could not found any Honkomp records.
Happy New Year,
Werner


Dear Werner,

Your welcome! :)

For those with ties to Missourians..

A great site is:

http://www.sos.mo.gov/records/

Proceed to:

Research Room.

Then procced to:

Online databases.

The civil war provost Marshalls database is interesting to peruse and can
be searched  by county as well as surname/part of a surname. This data is
interesting period...even if doesn't concern an ancestor.

There is also the soldiers database dating from the War of 1812 thru WWI.
There are digitized service records that can be viewed online in PDF
format.

There are birth and death records digitized as well as probate files.

Check it out!!!

Barbie-Lew




______________________________________________

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http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


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RE: [HN] Discussions, debates, soapboxes, etc., etc.

Date: 2006/01/01 05:22:37
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

As an old (er, enlistment wise) and venerable member of the list, your considerable input here certainly deserves some feedback. Since I'm still laid up and no one has taken the plunge yet, allow me this dance.

From: "Jane Swan" <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>
Subject: [HN] Discussions, debates, soapboxes, etc., etc.
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 23:25:57 -0500

Hi everybody: Some of you no doubt have wondered why I have not joined the "fray". Simple reason - when both kids are here at the same time, as for Christmas, my son uses my "office" as his bedroom and my computer was totally blocked and I could not get near it. I have spent the last 3 nights and most of today perusing all these fascinating posts. And I agree wholeheartedly that all of this (or most of it, anyway) definitely adds to the pleasure of genealogy. So let me put my two (or 3) cents in before Fred comes back and chastises all of us.

Fray? Perhaps BLITZKRIEG would be more appropriate! I certainly wondered when you, Barbara, Gale, Winifred - let's just say ::ALL:: those of the fairer persuasion - were going to make your appearance! No doubt busy doing most of the brick-n-mortar SEASONS GREETINGS CHORES AND TASKS! :O Be that as it may, you saw what the rest of us made of it when we took to center stage. Even Barbie (CF) went MIA for a spell there after an early appearance. By the time poor Rena showed up, she had her hands full provocating (sic) and fending us off all at once (which she did rather handily, even three at a time). As could be predicted, our enthusiasm got the best of us, and the powers that be felt obliged to pull the reins in a tad (rumor has it the server was starting to overheat, but who knows :)). Things have chilled down a bit since. ;)

One thing shines thru loud and clear - our pride in our German ancestry and how we quickly jump in to defend it. Amen to that.

Isn't that the truth. And contrary to popular opinion!

Re: POWs - I have two cousins (both dead now) who were Russian prisoners in WW2, both severely mistreated and one horribly tortured by the Russians. I was fortunate to meet them both long after the War and hear their stories. I'll spare you the gory details but anyone interested, please write me off-list. It is important for us to know about this both about current cousins as well as ancestors as it can give us much insight about what kind of people they were and what they lived thru.

We had quite a range of opinions expressed on that one, and a respectable accounting of some of lucky ones who survived the ordeal. Appreciate your addition.

Alien registration: This also was true during WW2. My grandfather, for some unknown reason (probably procrastination) never became a citizen and every month they had to go down to the PO and register. This terribly embarrassed my grandmother because they had lived here as good "citizens" for well over 50 years.

What astounds me is how well the FBI did its thing, even back in the day. Their ability to keep tabs on aliens - German, Italian AND Japanese - was amazing. I have a few stories I could relate to you regarding their efficiency during this period, but it would be out of scope here. Suffice to say they were pretty good at what they did, even in the pre-database, pre-computer era.

The dying out of the language: When I first started in genealogy, I read a book about the Mormons collecting thereof and the author (whose name I can't remember) pointed out that the first generation of immigrants were always nostalgic about the old country (whether for good or bad), the second generation desperately tried to erase all connections to it, and the third generation sincerely wanted to know as much about it as possible - which in time led us to becoming interested in genealogy. 

Interesting summation, and no doubt true for the most part. However I know of some of the first generation who could easily double for the second in this equation. And others of course who fit that billing to the 'T'. My G-Grandmother was an exception. She longed for life back in Hildesheim, and regretted to her dying days having settled in the USA. So exceptions, as always, apply.

Those of us who still had a grandparent living to tell you the old stories are very fortunate indeed. I am one such - altho my mother (2nd gen) forbade my grandmother to teach me German - I lived with my grandmother who filled my with such a love of the Heimat that I couldn't wait to go there (I finally succeeded many years after her death) and when I finally was able to go to Germany, I felt as tho I were coming Home. Unfortunately, I grew up speaking a mish-mash of Platt, Hoch and English and it was only when some kid in school would look at me strangely and ask "What did you say?" that I knew one of the German words had slipped in.

I would be inclined to add this to what Bonnie, Barbie-Lew and - who have I forgotten [??] - contributed as part of the ladies addition to PRECIOUS, but that thread has since faded. 

Sadly, as my mother lay on her deathbed in the hospital, she reverted to all the old German prayers she had learned as a child.

Sad perhaps, but not a wholly isolated incident either I suspect.

Plattdüütsch: I always wanted to learn it but due to the above prohibition, never did. When I was in college my German professor wanted so much to meet my grandmother and learn it but she was getting old then and froze up. However, most of my cousins over there speak it at home and I found I was able to understand most of it. When I was last there (some 20 years ago) there was
quite a movement in Vilsen to have it taught in the schools again. After all, it was the Lingua Franca of the mighty Hanse before Luther translated the Bible into Hoch. I don't know what became of that since I have not been able to return.

Another interesting tidbit on what has become one of the signature themes of Hannover-L :: Plattdüütsch!!

History: As an author and historian, I have quite a bit to say about that. But I'll sign off this one for now. 

Mfg, Jane

Welcome back. MFG auch! :) Jb

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[HN] Fw: HAMILTON COUNTY ILLINOIS HANGING

Date: 2006/01/01 05:23:38
From: Patricia Knight <pknight1(a)fidnet.com>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Patricia Knight 
To: hannover-l-request(a)genealogy.net 
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 9:52 PM
Subject: HAMILTON COUNTY ILLINOIS HANGING


Gary

This hanging happened to a Mr. Fred Behme , who was a German and only spoke German,  in 1896.
It has a picture of his family and the entire story. The hanging was over a crime and not over his being discriminated against.

Pat

[HN] Discussions, etc. Part 2: History

Date: 2006/01/01 05:32:01
From: Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>

Hi Listers:  I was getting too weary last night to finish my "lecture".  HISTORY - history - history is the most important adjunct to our genealogical research.  I cannot emphasize that enough. Without at least a smattering of knowledge of our ancestors times and places you are missing a lot.  I am often appalled at how little history - and geography - some of our members know.  Admittedly, local German history is difficult to come by here but there are many ways of obtaining it.  Almost every little village has a little paperback of local history and most will be happy to send you a copy - often free.  The German National Tourist office in NY will send you an excellent map and info in English about any area you ask for.
Also listen to Fred - he may be gRump-y at times but his history is impeccable - as is mine.  When I see questions like  "Where is Brunswick and Braunschweig?" I cringe.  Didn't your teachers always say "Look it up!"  Or is it simply easier to ask the list?  Thank heavens for all the kind obliging people on the list.
Herewith some corrections and misapprehensions I've seen on the recent discussions:
I'm very surprised none of you professors caught this one - or are you all too young?  Roosevelt, not Truman (Rena, note correct spelling) was at the Yalta Conference with Stalin and Churchill.  Three sickly old men - two crippled and one in poor health, one already insane, another on the verge and the third bitterly vengeful (understandably so) - decided the fate of Germany.  It was so secret at the time that we'll never really know what went on but it appears that it was Stalin's threats to continue the war and spread Communism across the rest of Europe and even the rest of the world that made Roosevelt and Churchill cave under and allow Russian troops to cross Germany as far as the Elbe.  They were not that far yet.  Gen. Patton was ready to occupy all of Germany but under orders from Roosevelt, Eisenhower held back gasoline supplies for his tanks, etc. and he could not go further.  Later he was shot in the back (friendly fire!!!).
Re Bismarck:  He was certainly one of the most brilliant diplomats of modern times but also the most devious and conniving.  He threatened Hannover when she would not join the Prussian Zollverein, saying "If you don't join us, we will consider you our enemy".   Hence, Langensalza.  He "punished" Hannover in many ways, e.g. He withheld the pay of Hannover soldiers drafted into the Prussian army until their entire 3-year stint was up: others were paid quarterly.  He stole the entire Welf fortune.  The Welf (the ruling family of Hannover) up to that time had been one of the oldest and certainly the wealthiest royal family in all of Europe and sent King Georg V and Queen Marie into exile. (Queen Marie and my gr-grandmother were friends until her death - another interesting story).   Bismarck used much of the stolen money to fund his huge military as Prussia was very poor but he also used some of to bribe some of the southern states to join Prussia, e.g. he gave a huge sum to crazy Ludwig of Bavaria for his castle-building projects.  As to what people thought of him - most hated him at first but by the time the next generation came along they revered him as the 'saviour' who had finally united Germany.
Thirty-years War:  The most devastating in German history - they still refer to it as 'the Great War'.  It all began as a quasi-religious mostly political war when Friedrich von der Pfalz (Palatine) and his wife Elizabeth Stuart decided to accept an invitation to become King of Bohemia, which at the time was mostly Lutheran.  Bohemia lay outside the HREmpire but the Emperor long coveted it and was also a fanatical Catholic.  The first half of the war was mostly religious - Catholic south against Protestant North, but in the second half it became decidedly political and international.  Sweden came in on the side of the Lutherans and Spain on the side of the Catholics - and strangely Richelieu, that ardent persecutor of the Huguenots, brought France in on the Lutheran side!!! only because he hated the Habsburgs so.
Re our "Barbarian" ancestors the ancient Saxons (yes, they were cousins of the Saxons who went to England).  They were one of the very few tribes who were not lured by the riches of Rome.  They had a rich land of farms, forests and rivers and were quite content to remain there.  However, Charlemagne (Karl der Grosse) coveted their land and it took him ten whole years to conquer them.
And then came the "conversion" by the sword.  Altho pockets of the old religion remained here and there at least up to the Reformation if not later.  My grandmother, as intelligent and fairly well-educated as she was, still held on to many of the old "pagan" superstitions.
Now for those who find history 'boring' or too difficult to come by,  may I suggest once again that you read my trilogy "The Saxon Chronicle" - see my website   http://saxonchronicle.hypermart.net  I deliberately wrote it in fiction because a genealogy, after all, is a mere skeleton;  history might flesh it out a bit;  but only using fiction could I bring these ancestor to life - their loves and lives, their successes and failures, what their thoughts and reactions to the history they lived thru might have been.  Yes, it is fiction, but my historical research is as accurate as I could make it.   It is a very easy read.  I guarantee you will love it - and learn a lot, too.
My best wishes to all for a Happy and blessed New Year.    LOL,     Jane
Und zu allen deutschen Freunden wünche ich ein glückliches Neues Jahr.   MFG,    Jane



Jane Swan
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

RE: [HN] Discussions, etc. Part 2: History

Date: 2006/01/01 06:23:36
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Jane,

I have dibbs on the Brunswick/Braunsweig remark.

You cringed?

I cringe still.

Clicked: http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

When what to my wonderings eyes did appear??? Brunswick/Braunsweig

Definately one for the  "most embarrassing moments" box.

Had no clue. Must have missed school that day.

Barbie-Lew

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[HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eint rag 76

Date: 2006/01/01 07:02:04
From: SngKetner <SngKetner(a)cs.com>

Dear List:
     Happy New Year!
     I tried on Ancestry.com to find my great-grandfather Claus Steinberg, 
but I had no luck.  Mainly, what I am asking is how to find the records of what 
ship he came over on to the U. S. from Bremen, Germany to Baltimore, Maryland, 
USA.  He was born in Franzhorn, Hannover, Germany in 1835.  He, and possibly 
one son, emigrated to the USA circa 1880 to 1885.  His wife, Maria, and 6 of 
her children, and her sister, also born in Hannover, Germany, came over on the 
ship, Oder, in 1884, landing in New York City, USA.   
     Thank you to anyone who can help me.
          Regards; Sue, in Altoona, Pa. USA.

Re: [HN] civil war

Date: 2006/01/01 09:06:10
From: Gary Stoltman <stopan(a)optonline.net>

Hi Eric

Find a Carl living on Harvey St. in the 1920 Natrona, Casper Ward 3, Dist 75 Wyoming census - 7 years old - born Missouri. Father is Hiram 41 b. MO working at oil refinery - also wife Relda, 35 also b. MO. All parents b. MO except her mother - b. Indiana. Carl is still alive in 1930.

Brothers were Rory & Earl 11 & 10.

Looking for a Hiram in 1880, I find only a mention of a Hiram as a father to Anna Rowland b. 1869. Wouldn't want to guess.

Hope there is some help here. Good hunting

Gary Stoltman
Mercerville, NJ


----- Original Message ----- From: <Truhnmtruhn(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] civil war


My grandfather was born in MO. I have heard from some relatives that we are
related to the JAMES brothers but I do not have a lot of info to research.
Could  you give me a hand.
Carl Benjamin ROWLAND born 2/7/1913 in MO. Father Hiram ROWLAND, Mother Relda
Thanks
Eric Truhn
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Re: [HN] deutsch?

Date: 2006/01/01 09:13:58
From: Gary Stoltman <stopan(a)optonline.net>

Hallo Michaela

Gute Idee! Wir könnten versuchen, die wenigen Minuten zu nehmen, zu übersetzen.

Good idea! We could try to take the few minutes to translate.

Gary


----- Original Message ----- From: "Michaela Ritter" <ahnenforschung-ritter(a)arcor.de>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] deutsch?


Hallo,

ein Gedanke dazu :
wenn man möchte, das andere Personen 2 Sprachen können, sollte man das auch
von sich selbst verlangen.
Mich stört es jedenfalls nicht !


Ich wünsche alles ein guten Rutsch ins Jahr 2006
Michaela (Ritter)
Admin bei www.ahnenforschung.org


P.S. Deutsch ist man meist nur, weil die Eltern sich gerade nicht woanders
aufgehalten haben ( ein warmes Gebiet hätte ich für meinen Teil vorgezogen)
:-)

______________________________________________

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Re: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area

Date: 2006/01/01 09:36:33
From: Gary Stoltman <stopan(a)optonline.net>

<<shame on us all>>

Patricia

Thanks for the story but don't feel shame - we had no part in it - nor would we today. Right? It's history

Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Knight" <pknight1(a)fidnet.com>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area


Gary

A hundred years has passed and things haven't changed in many ways and that
goes for all countries.  Some other countries seem proud to hate Americans
they way that we hate others.

I think, personally, that we should not meddle in the business, wars or what not for/or with any country. We are damned if, we do and damned if, we don't
so ....stay in our own land and take care of our own.....they come our way
then fight. Charity begins at home

I was speaking of a hanging that happened in the town square in Hamilton
County, IL. This was sometime before 1900.
It was gruesome....and the actual picture or drawing if, I recall is on the internet...if, you go to Hamilton County, IL and look for the hanging , you
will get the whole story.

Seems he was of the Lutheran faith and she of the Catholic and she wanted to have her children baptized in her faith...well, she left him and went to her
parents and baptized a little boy ...he followed and swore that he would
change and ...well...go to the site and see for yourself. It is as if, this
could be happening today....nothing changes!!!!

As long as there is religion, politics, greed and a need for... or want for
superiority ...things will never change.

Thanks for an interesting but, sad story....shame on us all.

Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Stoltman" <stopan(a)optonline.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area


Hi Pat

You made me look it up. This is from Nate Williams, Wittenburg U. site
http://www.wfa-usa.org/new/germanamer.htm

"Robert Prager moved to the United States from Dresden, Germany, in 1905
and
felt a strong sense of loyalty to the United States when war was declared
on
his homeland in 1917. Working as a miner just outside of Collinsville,
Illinois, Prager applied for membership into the local miners union, but
was
denied because he was suspected to be a German agent who was plotting to
blow up the mine in which he worked. After reading a statement pleading
Prager's case for membership into the union, a group of local miners
forced
Prager to show his patriotism by parading through the streets of
Collinsville while kissing the American flag and singing the Star Spangled
Banner. After being taken into police custody for safety purposes earlier
that evening, Prager was found once again by the now drunken and hostile
mob
and forced back into the streets. The mob marched Prager just outside of
town where he was to meet his fate in the early morning of April 5, 1918.
The mob threw a rope over a tree branch and tightened the noose around
Prager's neck.

There was a trial of eleven defendants who were accused of his murder.
They
were all acquitted and set free. Despite the judge's best efforts to
convince the jury that it was not the loyalty of Robert Prager to the
United
States that was on trial, the jury ignored the guilt of the eleven men who
played a physical part in Prager's hanging. After the verdict was read, a
member of the jury had this to say; "Well, I guess nobody can say we
aren't
loyal now... we've done justice of the right sort for Madison County."

Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patricia Knight" <pknight1(a)fidnet.com>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area


> Gary
>
> Was that the hanging of the man, who murdered his wife and young son
> because she practiced her Catholic religion?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Stoltman" <stopan(a)optonline.net>
> To: "Rena MCCARTHY" <Rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>;
<hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 9:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area
>
>
>> Hi Rena
>>
>> "Bittersweet" It would be a good title! If I remember correctly, the
>> original English were 'run out of town' to Normandy. All of the >> current
>> Brits are Germanic descendants?
>>
>> There were too many 'krauts' in St Louis for there to be any  real
> violence
>> agianst the Germans in WWI. However, across the Mississippi River in
>> Illinois, there was a famous hanging.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rena McCarthy" <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>
>> To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:18 AM
>> Subject: [HN] back to genealogy & history in the Hannover area
>>
>>
>> > I've enjoyed reading accounts of how Hannovarians fared in the
> Americas -
>> > here's an account of my bloodline:
>> >
>> > The last 3 wars on the European mainland were the reason I wasn't
told
>> > until
>> > the morning of my wedding day in the 1960's that my mother's mother
was
>> > the
>> > daughter of a German, or Austrian as an aunt describes him and as
Gary
>> > mentioned bombs have destroyed family heirlooms, documents and
archive
>> > records.  Luckily a daughter-in-law of my gt.grandfather Hermann
Flamme
>> > was
>> > the type who wouldn't take silence as an answer :-) and thus I have
>> > been
>> > able to piece together a life of hardship in the KOH and England for
my
>> > direct line. With the help of Klaus I found the Catholic Flamme
family.
>> > Franz Flamme the miller and houseowner of Liebenberg could read and
> write,
>> > he had a wife and family who could also read & write but he strayed
>> > from
>> > the
>> > straight and narrow and in 1823 Heinrich Flamme was born to a
Lutheran
>> > unwed
>> > mother.  Heinrich, then a servant at Immenrode married Sophie Ehlers
a
>> > farmers daughter in Gross Mahner June 1854. If he had learnt to >> > read
> and
>> > write he would have discovered the vicar had entered the Sept. 1854
>> > baptism
>> > details of his new son incorrectly - namely father & son's names >> > were
>> > interpolated.   The court records of the time show provision of a
> building
>> > specifically for widows, which gives an idea of upheaval. After a
>> > period
>> > of
>> > calm the record shows a massive rise in population. With unrest
>> > rumbling
>> > in
>> > 1864-ish my gt.grandfather Hermann was brought across to England >> > with
2
>> > other children to have a chance of a 'better' life busking the
streets
> of
>> > England and later on at 16 yrs old was officially working in a sweat
> shop
>> > as
>> > a 'tailor'.  In 1852 the musical Bielstein family were living in
>> > Salzgitter
>> > and in 1861 they had set up a music school in Hull, England in 1871
>> > Hermann
>> > was living next door with his musician uncle Conrad Ehlers from
>> > Salzgitter.
>> > Conrad had fled his home years before to evade being mustered into
the
>> > navy
>> > and I'm presuming this was about the time there was trouble between
>> > Austria
>> > and Denmark.  I assume there were differences in dialect between
> villages
>> > in
>> > Hannover because 'Flamme' was written as 'Flemme' in the Salzgitter
>> > 1852
>> > census and the same applied in England where Hermann's name was
written
> as
>> > 'Flemme'.  By the 1890's Herman was married, had a family and gone
into
>> > business opening his first greengrocery shop which by 1899 had >> > become
> two
>> > shops and he branched out making his own recipe icecream but he'd >> > had
>> > to
>> > anglicise his name to 'Fleming' because there were rumblings in
Europe
>> > stirred up by Bismarck 1890-1902 - (that's when the Kingdom of
Hannover
>> > was
>> > lost to Britain who had gained it in a dowry centuries before.)   In
> 1900
>> > Herman was walking the streets looking for work. I've read Germans
were
>> > targeted, shop windows broken etc.
>> >
>> > WWI came about because Britain went to the aid of Belgium who she >> > had
a
>> > treaty with.  It will surprise some of you to learn that Kaiser Bill
> sent
>> > helium filled airships to bomb England.  Once again it didn't do to
>> > advertise you were of German descent.  Herman had to report to the
> police
>> > station daily and his 3 youngest sons were conscripted and sent to
> France
>> > with the Royal Army Medical Corp and official medal records show >> > them
>> > as
>> > 'FLEMME'.   His eldest son William Henry b1877 was eventually
> commandeered
>> > into the army and perished in the Somme Sept 1918 aged 41 recorded
with
>> > his
>> > Angliced surname of 'Fleming'. His cousin was sent to an alien's
camp.
> If
>> > my memory serves me right there were 12 million deaths in WWI. >> > Bitter
>> > sweet
>> > is the knowledge that in 1914 reservist Heinrich Flamme died
defending
>> > German, his homeland.  The Allies decided that the Great War would
end
> all
>> > wars and set about moving territorial boundaries - Britain organised
>> > Treaties with all and sundry and that's the key as to why we >> > ventured
> into
>> > Europe again.
>> >
>> > When Hitler decided to take back all that he considered was German
land
> in
>> > 1938 the rest of Europe was helpless because all the countries he
> marched
>> > into had a treaty with Germany and all Hitler had to do was say he
was
>> > looking after their interests.  At the time Britain had a pacifist
>> > government but once Hitler had moved into the country he didn't have
a
>> > treaty with, Britain had to act (and I think it was Poland).  Hitler
>> > had
>> > secretly amassed thousands of war planes against our few dozen
biplanes
>> > and
>> > monoplanes - we asked America for help and it came back in the form
of
>> > manual warning sirens which came in handy for the blitzkreig on
London
>> > :-))
>> > I noticed a comment about France - this country was split, the Vichy
>> > French
>> > were pleased to see Germany's advance and some French pilots defied
> orders
>> > and flew their planes to England.  I rather liked the way Churchill
put
> it
>> > years later -"The French will never come to our aid - they owe us >> > too
>> > much".
>> > Re the two Germanies: After the hostilities ceased, Winston
Churchill,
> who
>> > was ill at the time, was outmanoevred at Yalta by Lenin and the US
>> > President
>> > Trueman. I haven't read Trueman's account of why he acted as he >> > did.
>> >
>> > I haven't been able to find the official record of Herman's death >> > but
I
> do
>> > know he died in the house he built with the help of his sons in a
>> > beautiful Yorkshire village.  He'd planted an orchard of apple trees
>> > and
>> > in the days of 'dry' toilets(johns) he'd built a wooden shed, inside
> which
>> > he'd made double 'seats', one lower than the other for the visiting
>> > children.  Up until the mid 1960's (when sewers were laid) a horse
>> > drawn
>> > covered wagon would visit each house in the village to empty the
>> > toilets
>> > :-)
>> >
>> > Jb got it exactly right - I'm a royalist.  Like Holland our monarchy
is
>> > only
>> > a figurehead, not an absolute ruler, non-political and whatever any
> world
>> > leader says to her or asks advice on, it never goes any further. The
> crown
>> > has a stabilizing effect and brings in more visitors than our Tony.
We
> can
>> > thank Oliver Cromwell for that - I think the dictator Franco must
have
>> > copied Cromwell.  Presidents and prime ministers come and go and are
> very
>> > expensive on the upkeep.
>> >
>> > Best Wishes to everyone for a healthy happy new year.
>> > Rena
>> > =
>> >    Certainly we all want this list to be lively and  informative.
>> > Historians-and genealogists-are vitally concerned with the  subject
of
>> > origins, some to
>> > the extent it becomes an avocation or a  'disease'.  To find and
>> > understand
>> > origins we search for evidence.   One of the fine qualities of this
>> > list
>> > is
>> > that there are people who are  knowledgeable about where to find
> evidence
>> > (archives, church records, civil and  military records, etc.) and
they
>> > have
>> > been
>> > eager to share their knowledge with  others who are seeking
information
>> > about the
>> > origins of their ancestors.
>> >
>> >    One of the unfortunate by-products of wars and  natural disasters
is
>> > that
>> > the evidence we seek is either destroyed, damaged or  scattered,
> sometimes
>> > in
>> > a manner that defies reason, like throwing all the  pieces of a
puzzle
> in
>> > the
>> > snow and then trying to reassemble the puzzle.   If we want to
exercise
>> > our
>> > brains and get "back to genealogy & history in  the Hannover area",
> could
>> > we
>> > not make an attempt to enumerate these sources of  evidence on the
list
>> > and
>> > try
>> > to identify the events and movements in history that influenced >> > both
>> > emigration and immigration to the Hannover region?  Is  it possible
to
>> > identify the
>> > topics that the members of the list would like the  list to address?
>> >
>> > I believe that when we shine light (focus attention) on a >> > subject
>> > it
>> > can
>> > bring both life and understanding.  I look  forward to the
information
> and
>> > perspective that the members of the list can  provide.
>> >
>> > Gary Beard
>> >
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
>> >
>> > Hannover-L mailing list
>> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> >
>> >
>> > --
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>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.9/216 - Release Date:
> 12/29/2005
>> >
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
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> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>
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Re: [HN] Discussions, etc. Part 2: History

Date: 2006/01/01 09:43:07
From: Gary Stoltman <stopan(a)optonline.net>

Hi Jane:

Patton was shot? Sounds conspiritorial. He was involved in a auto accident and was left a quadraplegic leading to death.

Gary Stoltman

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Swan" <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>
To: "hannover-l" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 11:31 PM
Subject: [HN] Discussions, etc. Part 2: History


Hi Listers: I was getting too weary last night to finish my "lecture". HISTORY - history - history is the most important adjunct to our genealogical research. I cannot emphasize that enough. Without at least a smattering of knowledge of our ancestors times and places you are missing a lot. I am often appalled at how little history - and geography - some of our members know. Admittedly, local German history is difficult to come by here but there are many ways of obtaining it. Almost every little village has a little paperback of local history and most will be happy to send you a copy - often free. The German National Tourist office in NY will send you an excellent map and info in English about any area you ask for. Also listen to Fred - he may be gRump-y at times but his history is impeccable - as is mine. When I see questions like "Where is Brunswick and Braunschweig?" I cringe. Didn't your teachers always say "Look it up!" Or is it simply easier to ask the list? Thank heavens for all the kind obliging people on the list. Herewith some corrections and misapprehensions I've seen on the recent discussions: I'm very surprised none of you professors caught this one - or are you all too young? Roosevelt, not Truman (Rena, note correct spelling) was at the Yalta Conference with Stalin and Churchill. Three sickly old men - two crippled and one in poor health, one already insane, another on the verge and the third bitterly vengeful (understandably so) - decided the fate of Germany. It was so secret at the time that we'll never really know what went on but it appears that it was Stalin's threats to continue the war and spread Communism across the rest of Europe and even the rest of the world that made Roosevelt and Churchill cave under and allow Russian troops to cross Germany as far as the Elbe. They were not that far yet. Gen. Patton was ready to occupy all of Germany but under orders from Roosevelt, Eisenhower held back gasoline supplies for his tanks, etc. and he could not go further. Later he was shot in the back (friendly fire!!!). Re Bismarck: He was certainly one of the most brilliant diplomats of modern times but also the most devious and conniving. He threatened Hannover when she would not join the Prussian Zollverein, saying "If you don't join us, we will consider you our enemy". Hence, Langensalza. He "punished" Hannover in many ways, e.g. He withheld the pay of Hannover soldiers drafted into the Prussian army until their entire 3-year stint was up: others were paid quarterly. He stole the entire Welf fortune. The Welf (the ruling family of Hannover) up to that time had been one of the oldest and certainly the wealthiest royal family in all of Europe and sent King Georg V and Queen Marie into exile. (Queen Marie and my gr-grandmother were friends until her death - another interesting story). Bismarck used much of the stolen money to fund his huge military as Prussia was very poor but he also used some of to bribe some of the southern states to join Prussia, e.g. he gave a huge sum to crazy Ludwig of Bavaria for his castle-building projects. As to what people thought of him - most hated him at first but by the time the next generation came along they revered him as the 'saviour' who had finally united Germany. Thirty-years War: The most devastating in German history - they still refer to it as 'the Great War'. It all began as a quasi-religious mostly political war when Friedrich von der Pfalz (Palatine) and his wife Elizabeth Stuart decided to accept an invitation to become King of Bohemia, which at the time was mostly Lutheran. Bohemia lay outside the HREmpire but the Emperor long coveted it and was also a fanatical Catholic. The first half of the war was mostly religious - Catholic south against Protestant North, but in the second half it became decidedly political and international. Sweden came in on the side of the Lutherans and Spain on the side of the Catholics - and strangely Richelieu, that ardent persecutor of the Huguenots, brought France in on the Lutheran side!!! only because he hated the Habsburgs so. Re our "Barbarian" ancestors the ancient Saxons (yes, they were cousins of the Saxons who went to England). They were one of the very few tribes who were not lured by the riches of Rome. They had a rich land of farms, forests and rivers and were quite content to remain there. However, Charlemagne (Karl der Grosse) coveted their land and it took him ten whole years to conquer them. And then came the "conversion" by the sword. Altho pockets of the old religion remained here and there at least up to the Reformation if not later. My grandmother, as intelligent and fairly well-educated as she was, still held on to many of the old "pagan" superstitions. Now for those who find history 'boring' or too difficult to come by, may I suggest once again that you read my trilogy "The Saxon Chronicle" - see my website http://saxonchronicle.hypermart.net I deliberately wrote it in fiction because a genealogy, after all, is a mere skeleton; history might flesh it out a bit; but only using fiction could I bring these ancestor to life - their loves and lives, their successes and failures, what their thoughts and reactions to the history they lived thru might have been. Yes, it is fiction, but my historical research is as accurate as I could make it. It is a very easy read. I guarantee you will love it - and learn a lot, too.
My best wishes to all for a Happy and blessed New Year.    LOL,     Jane
Und zu allen deutschen Freunden wünche ich ein glückliches Neues Jahr. MFG, Jane



Jane Swan
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
______________________________________________

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Re: [HN] Tierärzte im Kgr. Hannover ca. 1820 - 1850

Date: 2006/01/01 10:32:52
From: HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de <HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Klaus, am 18. Juli 1788 ordnete König Georg III.  die Einrichtung
einer Königlichen "Ross- und Vieh-Arzney-Schule" an, aus der die
heuztige Tierärztliche Hochschule hervorging.Johann Adam Kerstning war
einer der ersten Leherer an dieser Schule, alles Gute Heinrich
-----Original Message-----
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 09:22:29 +0100
Subject: [HN] Tierärzte im Kgr. Hannover ca. 1820 - 1850
From: "klaus friedrichs" 
To: 

Liebe Listenteilnehmer,

seit wann gibt es für Tierärzte im Königreich Hannover eine geregelte
Ausbildung?

Wo studierten diese und gibt es Aufzeichnungen über die Studenten ?

Über eine Beantwortung wäre ich dankbar.

Klaus Friedrichs

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Re: [HN] Achim near Bremen, EGGERS

Date: 2006/01/01 12:44:59
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Hello,

This is off subject.

I'm pretty sure there were Egger's in St. Louis, Missouri.

In March, 2004 I noted:

St. Louis Post Dispatch
*10/30/1890 page 10
Burial Permit
Egger, Louis Gotlieb

Not sure if of any interest but I post anyway.

Barbie-Lew
St. Louis




From: <gale(a)bosche.info>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Achim near Bremen, EGGERS
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:51:12 -0500

Hi Joy - Nikolaus:

Whats going on here?
I located your e-mail for Joy, but you can't get her now.
jebold(a)comcast.net  for Joy and as below for Nickolaus.

Did you get Joy's e-mail from the archives?  The archives
change the @ to (A), probably to eliminate mass mailings
from the archives.

Gale

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 15:48:46 +0100
 Nikolaus Ordemann <n.ordemann(a)infocity.de> wrote:
Joy Bold schrieb:
Four /five days ago I received an email from this person regarding my family.

< n.ordemann(a)infocity.deeggers>

Now when I have tried to answer, my email to him bounces. Do any of you
listers  know this person or why my email to him bounces?
Thank you.
Joy Eggers Bold
Today I got an email from Joy Bold; my answer bounced.
My correct email address is *n.ordemann at infocity.de* with no "eggers" following it.

              Nikolaus (Ordemann)
      http://privat.genealogy.net/ordemann
      Die genealogische Ordemann-Homepage
The (German language) genealogical Ordemann homepage
______________________________________________

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[HN] Ostrowski

Date: 2006/01/01 14:12:27
From: Elke Schulzke <elke46(a)msn.com>

Guten Tag,
Michael Ostrowski geb. 09.11.1852

Wer forscht mit Ostrowski ?

Mit freundlichem Gruß
Schulzke

_________________________________________________________________
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Re: [HN] civil war

Date: 2006/01/01 16:00:13
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

Thank you Gary,
Happy New Year = Plattdütsch: Zäs Neijaohr!
Werner

> Hi Werner

> Try contacting  Russel Gaj  - russgaj(a)ix.netcom.com for Honkomp info in
> Missouri. Shows ancestors from Oldenburg.

> Good hunting

> Gary




Re: [HN] Re: Steinberg Gnarrenburg-Franzhorn

Date: 2006/01/01 16:00:14
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

Franzhorn is a part of the community Barghorn, about 20 miles easterly from the port Bremerhaven.
There some Steinberg addresses, here one of them:

  Walter Steinberg
  Hegebuschstr. 7
  27442 Gnarrenburg

I hope it help,
Werner Honkomp

> Dear List:
>      Happy New Year!
>      I tried on Ancestry.com to find my great-grandfather Claus Steinberg,
> but I had no luck.  Mainly, what I am asking is how to find the records of
> what
> ship he came over on to the U. S. from Bremen, Germany to Baltimore,
> Maryland,
> USA.  He was born in Franzhorn, Hannover, Germany in 1835.  He, and
> possibly
> one son, emigrated to the USA circa 1880 to 1885.  His wife, Maria, and 6
> of
> her children, and her sister, also born in Hannover, Germany, came over on
> the
> ship, Oder, in 1884, landing in New York City, USA.
>      Thank you to anyone who can help me.
>           Regards; Sue, in Altoona, Pa. USA.
> ______________________________________________

> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Achim near Bremen, EGGERS -mail from j e bold at comcast.net

Date: 2006/01/01 16:04:02
From: Nikolaus Ordemann <n.ordemann(a)infocity.de>

heute habe ich nochmals versucht, eine email an Joy zu schicken;
kam wieder zurück.
today I tried again to send an email to Joy; it bounced again.

Fehlermeldung, für mich unverständlich/Error message, cryptic for me:
host gateway-r.comcast.net[204.127.198.26] said:
550-80.64.180.66 blocked by ldap:ou=rblmx,dc=comcast,dc=net 550 Blocked for abuse.

Hello Joy,

Four /five days ago I received an email from this person regarding my family.

< n.ordemann(a)infocity.deeggers>

Now when I have tried to answer, my email to him bounces. Do any of > you listers know this person or why my email to him bounces?

this is the text of an email you sent on Dec,31,2005 to the Hannover List.

I had a look into my outgoing mail basket - there is no mail from me to
you in December, neither directly nor via Hannover-l or another list. In
addition, my email address doesn't end in ".deeggers", but just in
".de". As an answer to the above citated mail I tried to send mails to
your email address but now it was me who had bouncing problems.

And there is little or nothing to tell you about your family: I just
have one individual with this name in my ancestry, and I have only her
birth, marriage and death dates and her husband's data (an Ordemann).

Success in 2006!

--
              Nikolaus (Ordemann)
      http://privat.genealogy.net/ordemann
      Die genealogische Ordemann-Homepage
The (German language) genealogical Ordemann homepage


Re: [HN] Place names

Date: 2006/01/01 16:04:56
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

Hello Lila,

"Lila Burmeister" <lburmeister(a)meekercoop.net> schrieb:
> The locations that I am working with are Eddelsdorf, Gruensvolde,  
> Bornsen, Bardgorf, Bostelwiebeck, Altenmedingen (Parish) and Varendorf.

All this places should around my living place Bienenbüttel.

> The information on my ancestors that  I have is:
> 	 Jurgen Beneke and Catherine Riest were married at Altenmedingen in  
> 1829.
> 	Jurgen was born at Eddelstorf in 1799 and was a "hauswirt" there --  
> is that farmer?

Yes that is regularly right. The farm he was one should have been of normal size, if nothing else is given. You will find this name also for owners of similar rights on houses inside smaller towns, where the living was made also by other activities.

> 	Catherine was born at Bostelwiebeck in 1805.
> 
> Jurgen & Catherine's son, Johann Henry Beneke was born at Eddelsdorf  
> in 1840
> 	Johann was married in an unknown place to Elizabeth Backhaus,

As Bienenbüttel is and was a central place to most of the other places there is a slight chance to find this marriage here or in the nearby parishbook of Wichmannsdorfor Ebstorf.I might do some look-ups here in Bienenbüttel, if you will bear the fee for the use of the books. Those were at last 5,00 Euro each day. But of course the marriage might have been also elsewhere.

> Elizabeth was born in 1853 in Gruensvolde accor-
> ding to one source, and Bornsen according to 
> another source.

Which exactly source tells what ? "Grünwalde" is a small assembling of houses on the road between Rieste and Beverbeck, only about 3km from Bornsen, to small for being a village of its own, so it might be administraded by Bornsen. We have the same problem of correct naming today again. In seventies there was a reorganisation by which Varendorf and other places became part of Bienenbüttel. Since then and even more intensive since 1993 when a new postcodenumbering gave all this places the same postcodenr. you often find that people from Varendorf or other places inside the administration unit Bienenbüttel give there adress as Bienenbüttel instead of Varendorf, although there is a 15km distance. That is the fate,old names go lost. 

> 	Johann & Elizabeth's son, Hermann was born at Varendorf in 1879.
>   	Johann & Elizabeth's son, Gustav was born at Eddelstorf in 1882.
> 
> All of them have Varendorf listed as their resi-
> dence at the time of emigration to America in 
> 1883.
> 
> These places are all so close together on the 
> map, but would people  have moved around that 
> much?

Sounds quite normal. Those who were not the ones to take over the place lateron and had not the wealthyness for getting another farmplace of ones own, usually worked as farm help elsewhere. And sometimes also changed the farm and place of work.

> Where would information for people from these places be recorded?

Of course in the parishbooks, others might have survived in local archives or the hands of intere-sted local historians. Bornsen belonged in former times to Amt Ebstorf. As Bargdorf is also one of your places of interest, you might look for the adress of Eberhard Behnke under www.telefonbuch.de for Bargdorf. He has published about Bienenbüttel and its history and might perhaps be of some help.
There is a difference between "Behnke" and "Beneke", but who knows, perhaps you are even anywhere connected with the same lines.

Greetings   Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

Re: [HN] Achim near Bremen, EGGERS -mail from j e bold at comcast.net

Date: 2006/01/01 16:45:30
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Nikolaus:

It appears that you have your answer, "Blocked for Abuse".

A lot of e-mail providers have different standards. I know of a person who mass mailed more than 35 e-mails and was blocked until that person could have her account reinstated. Many of the providers are now making an effort to reduce mass mailings. Every once in a while I see an e-mail come into the List with dozens of addresses on it. It is not very personal that way is it?

Remember though, this may not be really what in happening in your case.

Gale


On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 16:01:56 +0100
 Nikolaus Ordemann <n.ordemann(a)infocity.de> wrote:
heute habe ich nochmals versucht, eine email an Joy zu schicken;
kam wieder zurück.
today I tried again to send an email to Joy; it bounced again.

Fehlermeldung, für mich unverständlich/Error message, cryptic for me:
host gateway-r.comcast.net[204.127.198.26] said:
550-80.64.180.66 blocked by ldap:ou=rblmx,dc=comcast,dc=net 550 Blocked for abuse.

Re: [HN] Re: Steinberg Gnarrenburg-Franzhorn

Date: 2006/01/01 16:59:13
From: Christina und Horst Rauschenberg <ChrAnHo(a)t-online.de>

Guten Tag.
Claus Hinrich Steinberg, * Franzhorn 14.1.1835, Eltern Diedrich Steinberg oo Gesche Marie von Glahn.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Horst Rauschenberg

----- Original Message ----- From: "Werner Honkomp" <werner(a)honkomp.de>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] Re: Steinberg Gnarrenburg-Franzhorn


Franzhorn is a part of the community Barghorn, about 20 miles easterly from the port Bremerhaven.
There some Steinberg addresses, here one of them:

 Walter Steinberg
 Hegebuschstr. 7
 27442 Gnarrenburg

I hope it help,
Werner Honkomp

Dear List:
     Happy New Year!
I tried on Ancestry.com to find my great-grandfather Claus Steinberg, but I had no luck. Mainly, what I am asking is how to find the records of
what
ship he came over on to the U. S. from Bremen, Germany to Baltimore,
Maryland,
USA.  He was born in Franzhorn, Hannover, Germany in 1835.  He, and
possibly
one son, emigrated to the USA circa 1880 to 1885.  His wife, Maria, and 6
of
her children, and her sister, also born in Hannover, Germany, came over on
the
ship, Oder, in 1884, landing in New York City, USA.
     Thank you to anyone who can help me.
          Regards; Sue, in Altoona, Pa. USA.


Re: [HN] Hartke family and Kamlage family

Date: 2006/01/01 18:01:59
From: Lois Kamlage <lkamlage(a)your-net.com>

Thanks, Barbara for your help. I have on loan now the Ankum films but have
found only one Hartke, a female, listed. So I don't think there were many in
the Ankum area. I have also Googled the names and have found some Hartke
lines, but since I don't know if Henry Louis had any siblings or what their
names are, or what his parents names were, it is hard to make a connection.
I have found a few Kamlages in the Ankum files so will continue trying there
with other films. Thanks for your help. Lois
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] Hartke family and Kamlage family


> Hello Lois,
>
>       The LDS has various church listings on microfilm for the Evangelical
> and the Catholic churches in Ankum.  They are duplicates and are
incomplete.
> However, you never know what you may find there. It may be worth a search.
>
>      What church did the Hartke and Kamlage families belong to?
>
>      Have you tried various combinations of words with Hartke and the
> Kamlage names on Google?  You can sometimes stumble on someone's pedigree
> online that may be helpful.
>
>      There are quite a number of Hartkes on the emigration list of
Osnabrück
> but not one by the name of Heinrich Louis Hartke:
>
> PERS    Hartke, Anna Marie    26419
> PERS    Hartke, Anton Joseph    7445
> PERS    Hartke, Anton Joseph    7446
> PERS    Hartke, Bernhard    7426
> PERS    Hartke, Eleonore Henriette    25535
> PERS    Hartke, Elisabeth    7455
> PERS    Hartke, Friedrich Wilhelm    26419
> PERS    Hartke, Hermann Heinrich August    24607
> PERS    Hartke, Hermann Heinrich August    24608
> PERS    Hartke, Johann Diedrich    6816
> PERS    Hartke, Johann Eberhard    7321
> PERS    Hartke, Johann Friedrich    26419
> PERS    Hartke, Johann Friedrich    6815
> PERS    Hartke, Johann Friedrich    6816
> PERS    Hartke, Johann Friedrich, senior    26419
> PERS    Hartke, Johann Heinrich    7321
> PERS    Hartke, Johann Heinrich    7447
> PERS    Hartke, Johann Heinrich    7449
> PERS    Hartke, Johann Hermann Bernhard    7447
> PERS    Hartke, Johann Hermann Bernhard    7448
> PERS    Hartke, Johann Hermann Bernhard    7449
> PERS    Hartke, männl    25536
> PERS    Hartke, männl.    25535
> PERS    Hartke, männl. + weibl.    7446
> PERS    Hartke, Marie Elisabeth    26419
>
>      I could help you to explore those names if you think there are any
that
> would fit.  I know Louis is often listed as Ludwig, but there are none
with
> that name.  Heinrich may not have been his first name listed on this list.
> If you had a definite name match, you can order the emigration record and
> that would tell you the place of origin.  There are over 300 Harkte names
in
> the German telephone book today.
>
>     There is only one name listed in the Osnabrück emigration archives for
> Kamlage -  Hermann Heinrich from Bramsche. There are over 100 listings for
> Kamlage in the German phone book today, 4 of them in Bersenbrück near
Ankum.
>
>     Sorry I couldn't find anything more definite.
>
> Good luck,
> Barbara
>
>
>
>
> on 12/21/05 5:25 PM, Lois Kamlage at lkamlage(a)your-net.com wrote:
>
> > Hello, I am new to your list and would like to know if any one has seen
in
> > their seaches the name of Heinrich Louis Hartke b. 1853 in Hanover,
Germany.
> > He came to Cincinnati, Ohio and married Sophia Freeman, possibly spelled
> > Friemann. I am trying to find his roots in Germany and where to look on
> > microfilm to find him. Don't have a clue.
> >
> > Am also looking for any info I can get on the Joseph Kamlage family.
Joseph
> > married Maria Adelheid Holthaus. They had at least 1 child Gerhard
Heinrich
> > Kamlage b. 1834. Gerhard married Maria Catharina Busch in 1861 and they
had 5
> > children: Maria Elisabeth, Johann Heinrich, Hermann Bernard, Maria
Elisabeth
> > Bernardina, and an unknown child. Can't read the german to determine who
or
> > what sex it was. This family was from Ankum, Germany.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Lois Kamlage
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>



[HN] Bremer

Date: 2006/01/01 18:29:44
From: Christina und Horst Rauschenberg <ChrAnHo(a)t-online.de>

Guten Tag.
Ich habe folgende Daten:

1) Cord Bremer, ehemals im Amte Rotenburg bei Bremen erbgesessen
oo um 1580 Mette Twivel (Zweyffel),

2) Johann(es) Bremer, * 1587, + Kirchweyhe 16.10.1656, Kammerdiener bei herzog Philipp Sigismund von Braunschweig-Lüneburg, Bischof von Verden und Osnabrück; seit 1618 Zollverwalter in Dreye, kaufte seit 1620 verschiedene Ländereien in Kirchweyhe, baute dort ein Haus, das als freies Gut erklärt wurde
oo I. um 1613 Mette /Mechtild von Bremen, + 9.2.1619
Kind dieser Ehe:
Anna Magdalena Bremer, * Dreye um 1614, + Stockholm 1689, oo (vor 1631) Caspar Stolting

oo II. 1620 Catharina Klencke, * um 1597, + Kirchweyhe 20.2.1657, Tochter von Claus Klencke in Hoya bzw. Nienburg, 1583 Obristleutnant in Ungarn, und der Elisabeth Kehr
Kind dieser Ehe  siehe 3)

3) Philipp Sigismund Bremer, * Dreye 26.3.1621, + zwischen 1673 und 1678, Verwalter und Pächter des fürstlichen Vorwerks Erichshof bis 1660, kaufte seit 1649 Ländereien in Brinkum, dort erbgesessen oo Syke 14.9.1646 Catharina Elisabeth Meyer, * Stolzenau, + Brinkum 14.10.1701, Tochter von Hinrich Meyer, Amtsschreiber in Stolzenau, seit 1632 Amtmann in Syke
Kinder:
a) Claus Ernst Bremer, * Brinkum 27.1.1650, + (29.7.) 1693 in der Schlacht bei Landen in Brabant, 1674 Cornett, 1675 Leutnant, 1687 Rittmeister, zuletzt Major, Hausbesitzer in Brinkum, oo 12.1.1675 Maria Elisabeth Langehenning, * Langenhagen 15.8.1640, + Brinkum 7.2.1715, Witwe von Leutnant Stücken, Tochter des Rittmeisters Jürgen Langehenning und der Anna König b) Margareta Hedwig Bremer, * 7.2.1652, + 10.9.1729, oo Brinkum 6.6.1671 Diedrich Hermann Müller c) Christian Friedrich Bremer, ~ Brinkum 20.2.1668, + Neumark/Polen 18.3.1708 als schwedischer Hauptmann, oo Brinkum 28.4.1700 Elisabeth Stolting

Das sind drei Kinder. Im Erbregister 1678 steht aber bei Philip Sigismund Bremers Seel. Wittibe: Hat noch von ihren eigenen Kindern 6 auszusteuern dessen ist aber noch kein gewisses promittiret.

Für Angaben bezüglich der weiteren Kinder des Philipp Sigismund Bremer bin ich sehr dankbar.
Vielen Dank und freundliche Grüße
Horst Rauschenberg

Re: [HN] civil war

Date: 2006/01/01 18:39:38
From: Truhnmtruhn <Truhnmtruhn(a)aol.com>

Yep, that's him. We still have family in Casper. That is where Carl grew  up. 
Plats burg, MO is where Hiram and Relda were from. I just found out this  
morning from Mom.
Thanks 
Eric

[HN] Rodenberg

Date: 2006/01/01 19:09:51
From: w.a. ridderbos <w.a.ridderbos(a)xs4all.nl>

Sehr geehrte Frau Reckewell und Herr Kemm,

Herzlicher Dank für die Information betreff Rodenburg !
Entschuldigung für das schlechtes duits. Ich bin doch einer Nordniederländer.

Hartelijk dank voor de informatie betreffende Rodenburg !
Verontschuldiging voor het slechte duits. Ik ben immers een kaaskop.

W.A.Ridderbos aus die Niederlande.

[HN] Kiesköpp

Date: 2006/01/01 19:51:33
From: KlausKunzeUslar <KlausKunzeUslar(a)aol.com>

Find ich witzig Herr Ridderbos. In Köln sagen wir Kiesköpp dazu. Ihr Klaus 
Kunze

[HN] VOSSBRINK in Quaken brück

Date: 2006/01/01 20:55:36
From: Art Dohrman <art.dohrman(a)comcast.net>

Liebe Mitforscher,
Ein glückliches Neues Jahr!

Suche Amalia VOSSBRINK, geb, 31. Mai 1839 in Quakenbrück, und ihre Mutter,
Anna Maria geb. SCHRANK.
Sie hatten in Jahre ~1855 nach Amerika ausgewandert.
Forscht jemand diese Familie?
********************
Looking for Amalia VOSSBRINK, b. May 31, 1839 in Quakenbrück, and her mother
Anna Maria born SCHRANK.  They emigrated to the US in approx. 1855.
Anyone researching this family?

Herzlichen Dank in voraus!
Many thanks in advance!

Art Dohrman



Re: [HN] Naturalized German/Americans ?

Date: 2006/01/01 21:19:47
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

I believe this should clarify the 'Alien Registrations' issue satisfactorily. While there were definitely different stripes to this, they all appear to be directly related the WWI draft/security initiative - at least for that period.

Carol and Ingrid, thanks for your additions. Interesting yes.

[NARA]

Enemy Alien Registration Affidavits, 1917-1921

Following the onset of hostilities during World War I, non-naturalized "Enemy Aliens" by definition, were required to register with United States authorities as a national security measure. Under the provisions of a Presidential Proclamation of April 6, 1917, non-naturalized female aliens were likewise registered as an additional national security measure that included those women of American birth that were married to enemy aliens. The series contains original affidavits of registration that record personal information about each registrant, their photograph affixed to the majority of documents, and the registrants fingerprints. These materials are held by NARA's Central Plains Region (Kansas City, MO).

Note: Digital copies of these records can be found at:
http://www.archives.gov/research/arc/topics/aliens.html

-----------------------------

[German Roots]

Arizona World War One Alien Registration Records 1918
U.S. District Court for the Phoenix Division of the District of Arizona

These alien registrations are... "Affidavits of people living in Arizona, but who were citizens from countries at war with the United States during the First World War. Men completed the form, 'Registration Affidavit of Alien Enemy' while women used the form 'Registration Affidavit of Alien Female.' Information recorded on these forms includes a physical description of the registrants, a four-year history of employment and residence, birth data concerning the registrants and their immediate family, immigration and naturalization information, data on language fluency, registrants' fingerprints, and a photograph." (NARA)

Most of the people in these records are from Germany and Austria. The affidavits generally provide port and date of arrival for the immigrants.

This series is from National Archives Record Group 21: Records of District Courts of the United States 1685-1991. The original records are at the National Archive's Pacific Region Branch in Laguna Niguel, California.

Note: Digital copies of these records can be found at:
http://www.archives.gov/research/arc/topics/aliens.html

-----------------------------

[Excerpted from Ancestry Magazine - June 2003]

When the Alien Registration Act of 1940 was passed, alien immigrants across the United States flocked to their local post office to register with the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS). Everyone over the age of fourteen years was fingerprinted. Each individual was given a two-page form to fill out (the AR-2); an additional form (the AR-3) was attached with a perforation. The forms were numbered serially with an Alien Registration Number, or A-number, which was assigned to the person who filled out the form. The completed forms were then sent to the INS for statistical coding, indexing, and filing. After this, the AR-3, or Alien Registration Receipt Card, was returned to the individual, who was required to carry the card at all times.

The information on all alien immigrants was kept on file by the INS, which by this time was no longer part of the Department of Labor, as it had been previously. In response to Mussolini's declaration of war on France on 10 June 1940, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt transferred immigrant services to the Department of Justice; immigration was now perceived as an issue of national security rather than an economic issue. Three weeks later, on June 28, Congress passed the Alien Registration Act of 1940. When FDR signed the bill into law the next day, he made the following statement, as if sensing the potential problems in such a bill: "It is of the utmost importance to the security of the country that the program of alien control shall be carried out with a high sense of responsibility. It would be unfortunate if, in the course of the regulative program, any loyal alien was subjected to harassment."

Of course, this was not the first time the United States had taken steps of this kind. In 1798, only twenty years after America had obtained its independence from British rule, Congress passed the "Alien Act" that authorized the president to order out of the country all aliens regarded as dangerous. During the First World War, legislation ordered the registration of aliens from nations at war with the United States. Alien immigrants were again required to register after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941. Of particular interest to the Department of Justice was the registration of aliens of enemy nations, such as Germany, Italy, Japan, Austria, Bulgaria, and Hungary. Alien immigrants were photographed, fingerprinted, and required to list all family members and relatives - in this country and in the old country - indicating any who were in military service in an enemy nation.
-----------------------------

All of this activity was intended to serve the United States and provide potentially important information, but it has unquestionable value to family historians as well.

Jb

_________________________________________________________________
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[HN] Steinberg

Date: 2006/01/02 00:11:04
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Sue,

       I haven't found the ship on which Claus Steinberg came to the U.S.
If you are interested in other information about him with pictures of the
area where he lived, you should look at this website:
   http://rycomms.com/gallery/steinberg?page=1

     Perhaps you have already seen it.  By the way, the tiny town is listed
on the map I have as Franzenhorn near Brillet which is just north of
Gnarrenburg.   
 
   The most likely parish church would be Gnarrenburg.  The LDS have records
that may include your family:

Kirchenbuch, 1715-1852  Evangelische Kirche Kuhstedt (Kr. Bremervörde)

Kirchenbuch, 1790-1852  Evangelische Kirche Gnarrenburg (Kr. Bremervörde)

     Perhaps you already have all that information.  Your request was about
the ship Claus would have been on.  I checked Castlegarden.org - there are
many Steinbergs listed there, but no Claus.

     By the way, there are 2 entries for Claus Steinberg from Brillet on
Rootsweb World Connect.

Good luck,
Barbara




on 12/31/05 11:01 PM, SngKetner(a)cs.com at SngKetner(a)cs.com wrote:

> Dear List:
> Happy New Year!
> I tried on Ancestry.com to find my great-grandfather Claus Steinberg,
> but I had no luck.  Mainly, what I am asking is how to find the records of
> what 
> ship he came over on to the U. S. from Bremen, Germany to Baltimore, Maryland,
> USA.  He was born in Franzhorn, Hannover, Germany in 1835.  He, and possibly
> one son, emigrated to the USA circa 1880 to 1885.  His wife, Maria, and 6 of
> her children, and her sister, also born in Hannover, Germany, came over on the
> ship, Oder, in 1884, landing in New York City, USA.
> Thank you to anyone who can help me.
> Regards; Sue, in Altoona, Pa. USA.
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] German language in America

Date: 2006/01/02 01:41:47
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Claire,

       I remember that you were looking for that orphanage some time ago!
Still no luck, I guess.  By doing Google searches, I read that there were
both a Lutheran and a Catholic orphanage (waisenhaus) in Düsseldorf.  I also
read that an orphanage in Düsseldorf was bombed in the war.

 Did you ever write to anyone in Düsseldorf?
This is a page for the diocese of Essen (which, I think, would include
Düsseldorf):  

http://www.archive.nrw.de/home.asp?bta-essen
There is an email address there that you could use to get some information.
You could write to the diocese of Essen or other archives in Düsseldorf as
listed. 

By doing a Google search on "orphanage in Dusseldorf" I found a reference to
an article at this address:

http://muse.jhu.edu/cgi-bin/access.cgi?uri=/journals/catholic_historical_rev
iew/v088/88.2yonke.html
It seems to be a historical journal which you can only access through a
library or such. I'm not sure how much specific information it would give.

I wish you luck.  That is a unique search.

Barbara






> Question:  My grandmother (CLARA HOLSTEIN) was in an Orphanage in Duesseldorf
> about 1895.  I believe it was a Catholic Orphanage--where would I look for
> records?
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Orphanage in D ü sseldorf

Date: 2006/01/02 01:54:05
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Barbara again,

    I forgot something.  I also read that Dominican Sisters had a orphanage
in Düsseldorf.  
I bet we could find something on that--I will try later.  Out of time now!

"A Dominican Sisters' community and 100 children were evacuated from a
bombed orphanage at Düsseldorf in 1943 and lived here till 1947."


on 1/1/06 5:41 PM, R&B Stewart at raybarbara(a)comcast.net wrote:

> Hello Claire,
> 
> I remember that you were looking for that orphanage some time ago!
> Still no luck, I guess.  By doing Google searches, I read that there were
> both a Lutheran and a Catholic orphanage (waisenhaus) in Düsseldorf.  I also
> read that an orphanage in Düsseldorf was bombed in the war.
> 
> Did you ever write to anyone in Düsseldorf?
> This is a page for the diocese of Essen (which, I think, would include
> Düsseldorf):  
> 
> http://www.archive.nrw.de/home.asp?bta-essen
> There is an email address there that you could use to get some information.
> You could write to the diocese of Essen or other archives in Düsseldorf as
> listed. 
> 
> By doing a Google search on "orphanage in Dusseldorf" I found a reference to
> an article at this address:
> 
> http://muse.jhu.edu/cgi-bin/access.cgi?uri=/journals/catholic_historical_rev
> iew/v088/88.2yonke.html
> It seems to be a historical journal which you can only access through a
> library or such. I'm not sure how much specific information it would give.
> 
> I wish you luck.  That is a unique search.
> 
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Question:  My grandmother (CLARA HOLSTEIN) was in an Orphanage in Duesseldorf
>> about 1895.  I believe it was a Catholic Orphanage--where would I look for
>> records?
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Suche Striepe - Leverenz

Date: 2006/01/02 03:22:25
From: gloepertz <gloepertz(a)comcast.net>

Hallo Herr Emmerich
Es könnt sein, das die Kirchenbücher, die von den Mormonen für Neuenkirchen, ein halben Kilometer südlich von Delmsen, die Geburt oder Taufe von Hinrich Leverenz haben, dabei die Eltern von ihn. Diese Kirchenbücher manchmal haben auch Notizen für Kinder und weitere Heiraten. Manchmal muss man drei mal um die Ecke fahren, um neben an, an zu kommen. 
Im Adressbuch von Hannover 1942 sind auch Striepe und Leverenz.
Günter Löpertz in Michigan, USA
Falls Sie die Gelegentheit haben, grüßen sie meine Cousine Helga 
Jagieniak in Cremlingen. Wir waren vor einem Jahr dort für Besuch.

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Emmerich.Albert(a)t-online.de 

> Hallo Liste! 
> 
> Suche das Ehepaar Striepe - Leverenz und ihre Kinder. Sie haben kurz nach 1900 
> geheiratet. Leider habe ich keine Vornamen, sondern nur folgende Angaben: 
> 
> Striepe: Marine Stabsingenieur ( im Jahr 1907 ) 
> 
> Leverenz: 
> * ca 1874 in Sprengel / Soltau / Hanover (Niedersachsen), ihr Vater war Hinrich 
> Christoph Leverenz, * 26.08.1847 in Delmsen / Soltau / Hanover(Niedersachsen), + 
> 08.08.1907 Hohegeiss im Harz 
> 
> Das Ehepaar Striepe-Leverenz hatte eine Tochter, wahrscheinlich weitere Kinder. 
> 
> Für jeden Hinweis bin ich sehr dankbar! 
> 
> 
> ALLES GUTE FÜR 2006!! 
> 
> Albert (Emmerich) 
> aus Cremlingen 
> ______________________________________________ 
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list 
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

Re: [HN] Naturalized German/Americans PS

Date: 2006/01/02 04:21:51
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Following the onset of hostilities during World War I, non-naturalized "Enemy Aliens" by definition, were required to register with United States authorities as a national security measure. Under the provisions of a Presidential Proclamation of April 6, 1917, non-naturalized female aliens were likewise registered as an additional national security measure that included those women of American birth that were married to enemy aliens.

"Enemy aliens"? After reviewing a sampling of these records, they hardly come across as fitting an "enemy" profile.

This can be seen as one more indicator of the political sentiment of the time regarding the "Huns" (ergo Germans), in this case being arbitrarily and prejudiciously classified as the "enemy" for no other reason than being newly settled to the United States, or non-naturalized. A better or more apt description could certainly have been formulated. It simply buttresses what I stated earlier in the week: the propaganda of the Wilson Administration - and of the organized press across America during that time - bordered on the criminal.

Al Toennies wrote:
I am told there was considerable hostility to these forms from the German-American community ..

Is there any wonder why now?

What sweet irony though. Despised by the generation under the scope, they're now valued by the subsequent ones. Here's to happy endings. ;)

Jb

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[HN] Part 2 - History

Date: 2006/01/02 04:36:42
From: Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>

Gary:  Serves me right for bragging about my knowledge of history.  I must admit that the first part was not history but current events for me.  I never heard your version of Patton's death.  Perhaps it was the "official" version - could the shot have caused the accident?  I got my version from the many guys coming back from over there.  Don't forget, everything at the time was so shrouded in secrecy, censorship, propaganda and fables that we finally accepted as "truth" only those accounts brought back by the men who were there - and by that time we didn't believe any of the "official" reasons for just about anything.
I also admit that my sphere of historical expertise is Medieval and Ancient.  I really had a hard time researching the 19th Cent for the last volume of my book but I knew it was the most important since that is when the majority of our ancestors emigrated.  I sincerely vouch for the accuracy of everything else in that post - and forgive, if I confused anyone.      Jane


Jane Swan
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

Re: [HN] Link to search Chicago Tribune Obits

Date: 2006/01/02 04:59:40
From: DVPJane <DVPJane(a)aol.com>

Rod, thank you, thank you for the Chicago Tribune url! I found several  
obituaries for family members with names I'd never heard before and an article  
from 1929 providing me with the proverbial "horse thief" in the family.  

Jane Bormann Wagoner

Researching surnames Bormann, Carl,  Thies, Grimm, Breuel, Eimbeck, 
Froehlich, Raddatz, Weber, Maurer,  Boness.

In Wettmar, Wathingen,Wieda, Zorge, Braunlage, Schlochau &  Kolberg in 
Germany; Schmiedrued & Rothrist in Switzerland and Wichita  & Chicago.


Re: [HN] (sans objet)

Date: 2006/01/02 07:22:17
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello,

     There is a Anna Johanne Minna Maring born in Hannover city June 8 1885.
Parents: Johannes Maring and  Johanne Julie Minna Rohne

     This is from the LDS site (www.familysearch.org).

Barbara



on 12/27/05 3:54 AM, ajtrouve(a)netcourrier.com at ajtrouve(a)netcourrier.com
wrote:

> Hallo Listenteilnehmer,
> 
> Ich suche die Eltern und die Geschwister von Anna MARING.
> Sie ist geboren am 1885 in Hannover. Ich suche auch den Geburtstag und das
> Todesjahr von Anna Maring.
> 
> Vielen Dank
> 
> Annick TROUVE
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> NetCourrier, votre bureau virtuel sur Internet : Mail, Agenda, Clubs,
> Toolbar...
> Web/Wap : www.netcourrier.com
> Téléphone/Fax : 08 92 69 00 21 (0,34 € TTC/min)
> Minitel: 3615 NETCOURRIER (0,16 € TTC/min)
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43

Date: 2006/01/02 08:53:54
From: bobbidoll <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>






 --- On Tue 12/27, jo meyer < gutenmorgen(a)mail.com > wrote:

 Some maybe got it bad<br>and others not as much. It may have helped for those who lived in the<br>same area to be together sharing the  pain. However , at least it did not<br>get as bad as being sent to camps like the japanese. 


I beg to differ.  Some German-Americans were sent to camps just as the Japanese were.  There weren't as many, but never the less some were.  The German-American community had asked for an apology from the US government.

Bobbi

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way  your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com



[HN] Lott / Loth - British soldier in Hanover ~ 1750

Date: 2006/01/02 09:38:24
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

An deutsche Forscher:
Ich habe die Geburt eines Kindes(1762) und den Todeseintrag(1763) von einem Engländer(ex anglia) im Kirchenbuch von Damme(Oldenburger-Münsterland) gefunden. Der Name wird mit Lott oder Loth angebeben.
Ich nehme an, dass es sich um einen desertierten englischen Soldaten handelt, der möglicherweise aus dem hannoverschen Diepholz oder Hunteburg über das Moor nach Damme kam und dort sich in eine Maria Cramer verliebte.
Während dieser Zeit war der König von England gleichzeitig König vom "Königreich Hannover". Daher nehme ich an, dass auch englische Soldaten das "Königreich Hannover" kontrollierten.
Fragen:
- können meine Annahmen stimmen?
- gibt es Nachweise über englische Solden die im Hannoverschen eingesetzt wurde?

To UK researcher:
I found church record of a child(1762) and the death(1763) of a englishman in Damme, Oldenburg province.
The name is Lott or Loth. On this time, the King George in England was also King of Hannover.
We assume, that he send english soldiers to the "Kingdom Hannover" for control this area. Close to Damme, about 5 miles, was the border to the Kingdom of Hannover (Damme was a part of the Price bishop of Münster at this time). Furthermore we assume, that Lott deserted into the next hannoveran town Diepholz or Hunteburg and came over to Damme because the girl Maria Cramer.
Questions:
- is it right what I mean?
- there are documents about english soldiers in the former "Kingdom of Hanover"?

Thank you,
Werner Honkomp


---------------------------------------------------------
Werner Honkomp                  werner(a)honkomp.de
Ziegelhofstr. 35b                    www.honkomp.de
26121 Oldenburg                 Tel: 0441-87230, Fax: 0441-883499

Re: [HN] Steinberg

Date: 2006/01/02 09:38:25
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

Here you can find a picture of the ship ODER :

http://www.geocities.com/mppraetorius/

Werner

> on 12/31/05 11:01 PM, SngKetner(a)cs.com at SngKetner(a)cs.com wrote:

>> Dear List:
>> Happy New Year!
>> I tried on Ancestry.com to find my great-grandfather Claus Steinberg,
>> but I had no luck.  Mainly, what I am asking is how to find the records
>> of
>> what
>> ship he came over on to the U. S. from Bremen, Germany to Baltimore,
>> Maryland,
>> USA.  He was born in Franzhorn, Hannover, Germany in 1835.  He, and
>> possibly
>> one son, emigrated to the USA circa 1880 to 1885.  His wife, Maria, and 6
>> of
>> her children, and her sister, also born in Hannover, Germany, came over
>> on the
>> ship, Oder, in 1884, landing in New York City, USA.
>> Thank you to anyone who can help me.
>> Regards; Sue, in Altoona, Pa. USA.


Re: [HN] Steinberg

Date: 2006/01/02 09:44:15
From: Christina und Horst Rauschenberg <ChrAnHo(a)t-online.de>

Good morning.
The most likely parish church would be Gnarrenburg.  The LDS have records
that may include your family:

Kirchenbuch, 1715-1852 Evangelische Kirche Kuhstedt (Kr. Bremervörde)

Kirchenbuch, 1790-1852 Evangelische Kirche Gnarrenburg (Kr. Bremervörde)

Thats wrong. The parish church is Kirchwistedt.
Greatings
Horst Rauschenberg


----- Original Message ----- From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:10 AM
Subject: [HN] Steinberg


Hello Sue,

      I haven't found the ship on which Claus Steinberg came to the U.S.
If you are interested in other information about him with pictures of the
area where he lived, you should look at this website:
  http://rycomms.com/gallery/steinberg?page=1

    Perhaps you have already seen it.  By the way, the tiny town is listed
on the map I have as Franzenhorn near Brillet which is just north of
Gnarrenburg.

  The most likely parish church would be Gnarrenburg.  The LDS have records
that may include your family:

Kirchenbuch, 1715-1852 Evangelische Kirche Kuhstedt (Kr. Bremervörde)

Kirchenbuch, 1790-1852 Evangelische Kirche Gnarrenburg (Kr. Bremervörde)

    Perhaps you already have all that information.  Your request was about
the ship Claus would have been on.  I checked Castlegarden.org - there are
many Steinbergs listed there, but no Claus.

    By the way, there are 2 entries for Claus Steinberg from Brillet on
Rootsweb World Connect.

Good luck,
Barbara




on 12/31/05 11:01 PM, SngKetner(a)cs.com at SngKetner(a)cs.com wrote:

Dear List:
Happy New Year!
I tried on Ancestry.com to find my great-grandfather Claus Steinberg,
but I had no luck.  Mainly, what I am asking is how to find the records of
what
ship he came over on to the U. S. from Bremen, Germany to Baltimore, Maryland, USA. He was born in Franzhorn, Hannover, Germany in 1835. He, and possibly one son, emigrated to the USA circa 1880 to 1885. His wife, Maria, and 6 of her children, and her sister, also born in Hannover, Germany, came over on the
ship, Oder, in 1884, landing in New York City, USA.
Thank you to anyone who can help me.
Regards; Sue, in Altoona, Pa. USA.
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Re: [HN] Part 2 - History

Date: 2006/01/02 12:39:03
From: Per-Olav Hildebrand <thildebr(a)ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Jane,
to my knowledge the death of general Patton resulted from a car accident in
Mannheim-Käfertal, Germany, where his car at low speed collided with a
truck. He was brought to Heidelberg, where the traumatic damage to his spine
(no safe-belts!) finally resulted in his death. As far as I know he was
burried beside his fellow soldiers at the American War Cemetary in
Luxembourg.

Per-Olav Hildebrand
Heidelberg

PS searching HILDEBRAND of Lemgo, Hannover, Berlin, California


[HN] suche Lohe

Date: 2006/01/02 12:59:24
From: thorsten <t.minse(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Freunde der Ahnen und Familienforschung
erst einmal ein frohes gesundes und ein erfolgreiches jahr bei der Ahnen und Familienforschung


Ich habe einen total totn punkt und komme einfach nicht weiter. Ich hoffe Ihr könnt mir alle alle helfen. Meine suche

Nicolay Jacob NORDHAUSEN
Geb. warscheinlich irgendwo in Thüringen
Gest. warscheinlich vor 1813
Ab 1766 praktizierte er in  Wöhrden als Barbier und  Chirurg 

oo

Cornelia Catharina von der LOHE
Geb. warscheinlich irgendwo in Westindien
Gest. warscheinlich vor 1813

Sie hatten zwei mir bekannte Söhne

Johann Cornelius NORDHAUSEN - Theologe in Ockholm
Geb. 1766 in Wöhrden
Gest.1816 in Ockholm

Gabriel NORDHAUSEN - Arzt
Geb. 1779 in Wöhrden
Gest.1820 in Kappeln


Lieben gruß aus Köhn

Thorsten Miensopust

[HN] Lott / Loth - British soldier in Hanover ~ 1750

Date: 2006/01/02 14:37:07
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hallo Werner ,

<<Der Name wird mit Lott oder Loth angebeben.>>
Der Name was LOTT, es ist aus/von :-)  Ireland, Wales, England.

Der Herzog von Wurtemburg hatte 15.000 Männer angehoben, um die Französische Armee im 1750's zu verbinden.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/default.asp

Es gibt Britische Aufzeichnungen der Buchstaben von vielen Herzögen in Deutschland (sehen Sie unten),
in den Kriegen, die viele in Ziffer geschrieben werden (geheimer Code)

Sie sagten: "Damme" - dieser Platz wurde erwähnt, aber er gehörte dem "Herzog von Flandern". Sie sagten: "Oldenburg" - es gab etwas deutsches Soldatgeborn in Oldenburg (unten) das Sie sagten: "Diepholtz" - ich fand englische Aufzeichnungen der deutschen Soldaten "Abeling, Behrens, Bolhorst" in der Hannoverarmee (unten).

< < - überenglischeSolden gibtes Nachweise eingesetztwurde des Würfels im Hannoverschen? > >

Es gab Britische und Deutsche Soldaten in den Armeen:

1)  Könige Deutche Legion
2)  60th Fußregiment
----------
The Duke of Wurtemburgh (spelling!) had raised 15,000 men to join the French army in the 1750's.

There are British records of letters from many Dukes in Germany (see below)
in the wars many are written in cipher (secret code)

You said: "Damme" - This place was mentioned but it belonged to the "Duke of Flanders". You said: "Oldenburg" - There were some German soldiers geborn in Oldenburg (below) You said: "Diepholtz" - I found English records of German soldiers "Abeling, Behrens, Bolhorst" in the Hannover army (below).

<<- gibt es Nachweise über englische Solden die im Hannoverschen eingesetzt wurde?>>

There were British and German soldiers in the armies:
1)  "Kings German Legion"
2) "60th Foot Regiment"

Best Wishes,
Rena in England
=

An deutsche Forscher:
Ich habe die Geburt eines Kindes(1762) und den Todeseintrag(1763) von einem Engländer(ex anglia) im Kirchenbuch von Damme(Oldenburger-Münsterland) gefunden. Der Name wird mit Lott oder Loth angebeben. Ich nehme an, dass es sich um einen desertierten englischen Soldaten handelt, der möglicherweise aus dem hannoverschen Diepholz oder Hunteburg über das Moor nach Damme kam und dort sich in eine Maria Cramer verliebte. Während dieser Zeit war der König von England gleichzeitig König vom "Königreich Hannover". Daher nehme ich an, dass auch englische Soldaten das "Königreich Hannover" kontrollierten.
Fragen:
- können meine Annahmen stimmen?
- gibt es Nachweise über englische Solden die im Hannoverschen eingesetzt wurde?

To UK researcher:
I found church record of a child(1762) and the death(1763) of a englishman in Damme, Oldenburg province. The name is Lott or Loth. On this time, the King George in England was also King of Hannover. We assume, that he send english soldiers to the "Kingdom Hannover" for control this area. Close to Damme, about 5 miles, was the border to the Kingdom of Hannover (Damme was a part of the Price bishop of Münster at this time). Furthermore we assume, that Lott deserted into the next hannoveran town Diepholz or Hunteburg and came over to Damme because the girl Maria Cramer.
Questions:
- is it right what I mean?
- there are documents about english soldiers in the former "Kingdom of Hanover"?

Thank you,
Werner Honkomp

---------------------------------------------------------
Werner Honkomp                  werner(a)honkomp.de
Ziegelhofstr. 35b                    www.honkomp.de
26121 Oldenburg Tel: 0441-87230, Fax: 0441-883499


[HN] suche Lohe

Date: 2006/01/02 14:38:19
From: thorsten <t.minse(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Freunde der Ahnen und Familienforschung
erst einmal ein frohes gesundes und ein erfolgreiches jahr bei der Ahnen und Familienforschung


Ich habe einen total totn punkt und komme einfach nicht weiter. Ich hoffe Ihr könnt mir alle alle helfen. Meine suche

Nicolay Jacob NORDHAUSEN
Geb. warscheinlich irgendwo in Thüringen
Gest. warscheinlich vor 1813
Ab 1766 praktizierte er in  Wöhrden als Barbier und  Chirurg 

oo

Cornelia Catharina von der LOHE
Geb. warscheinlich irgendwo in Westindien
Gest. warscheinlich vor 1813

Sie hatten zwei mir bekannte Söhne

Johann Cornelius NORDHAUSEN - Theologe in Ockholm
Geb. 1766 in Wöhrden
Gest.1816 in Ockholm

Gabriel NORDHAUSEN - Arzt
Geb. 1779 in Wöhrden
Gest.1820 in Kappeln


Lieben gruß aus Köhn

Thorsten Miensopust

Re: [HN] Suche Striepe - Leverenz

Date: 2006/01/02 18:26:51
From: Emmerich . Albert <Emmerich.Albert(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Günter Löpertz,
leider zeigen die Mormonen keine Eintragungen aus den Kirchspielen Neuenkirchen und Schneverdingen, da hatte ich schon gesucht. Die Original-Kirchenbücher muß ich bei Gelegenheit noch durchsuchen. Vielen Dank für den Hinweis auf das Adressbuch Hannover 1942, ich bin am Samstag in Hannover in einer Bibliothek, da werde ich nachschauen.
Die Grüße werde ich ausrichten.

Alles Gute nach Michigan
Albert Emmerich

P.S. "manchmal muß man um drei Ecken fahren, um neben an anzukommen" JA! Aber dank Internet fahren wir heute sehr schnell um die ganze Welt - und mit die besten Informationen über meine Vorfahren aus einer anderen Ecke von Deutschland erhalte ich inzwischen aus den USA (dank der Mormonen-Mikrofilme, die dort eine Genealogin für den betreffenden Bereich sehr gründlich bearbeitet hat). Deswegen lohnt sich der "Ausflug" auch in entferntere Ecken der Welt, da kommen sehr interessante Kontakte zustande!

<gloepertz(a)comcast.net> schrieb:
> Hallo Herr Emmerich
> Es könnt sein, das die Kirchenbücher, die von den Mormonen für Neuenkirchen, ein halben Kilometer südlich von Delmsen, die Geburt oder Taufe von Hinrich Leverenz haben, dabei die Eltern von ihn. Diese Kirchenbücher manchmal haben auch Notizen für Kinder und weitere Heiraten. Manchmal muss man drei mal um die Ecke fahren, um neben an, an zu kommen. 
> Im Adressbuch von Hannover 1942 sind auch Striepe und Leverenz.
> Günter Löpertz in Michigan, USA
> Falls Sie die Gelegentheit haben, grüßen sie meine Cousine Helga 
> Jagieniak in Cremlingen. Wir waren vor einem Jahr dort für Besuch.
> 


[HN] Application to emigrate

Date: 2006/01/02 18:27:09
From: Max Burgdorf <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

Several weeks ago I asked this question but got no response Maybe I will this time around.
In the middle 1800's if a native of Hannover appled for a request to emigrate to America, was there a time limit that such authorization was limited to? ie, could someone after getting such authorization emigrate 10 years after the original dated document?
Thanks for any input.
Max

Re: [HN] Holzrichter

Date: 2006/01/02 19:11:54
From: Oliver Bund <ollibund(a)gmx.de>

Hallo Liste,

erst einmal wünsche ich ALLEN ein gesundes frohes Jahr mit viel Forschungserfolgen !!! Vielen Dank für die vielen Infos zu den Kerzen und dem Holzrichter, nun bin ich ein ganzes Strückchen weiter.

Viele Grüße

Heike (Bund)


----- Original Message ----- From: "Harald Kemm" <harald.kemm(a)freenet.de>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 11:48 AM
Subject: [HN] Holzrichter


Moin Heike Bund,

in meiner Quelle, "Familienkundliches Wörterbuch" v. Fritz Verdenhalven
steht zu deiner Frage:

Holzrichter

Markenrichter; > s. d.
Oberaufseher des zum Holzgericht gehörenden Reviers;
Herr eines geschlossenen Holzreviers (Hannover)
Angestellter, der das Holz nach einem gewissen Maß aufsetzen läßt (Kleve)

Markenrichter / -kötter
Bauer, der jährlich 8 Handdienste leisten muß (Westfalen)

Alles Gute für das Jahr 2006 aus Barsinghausen wünscht Dir, mit freundlichem
Gruß

Harald (Kemm)
harald.kemm(a)freenet.de




______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



Re: [HN] Application to emigrate

Date: 2006/01/02 19:25:56
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi Max,

      You could write to the Hannover archives center and ask them.  I would
think you could get an answer there:

 poststelle(a)staatsarchiv-h.niedersachsen.de

Good luck,
Barbara



on 1/2/06 10:26 AM, Max Burgdorf at pharmaxx(a)charter.net wrote:

> Several weeks ago I asked this question but got no response Maybe I will this
> time around.
> In the middle 1800's if a native of Hannover appled for a request to emigrate
> to America, was there a time limit that such authorization was limited to? ie,
> could someone after getting such authorization emigrate 10 years after the
> original dated document?
> Thanks for any input.
> Max
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: Re: [HN] Application to emigrate

Date: 2006/01/02 19:53:26
From: Max Burgdorf <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

Thank you Barbara. I just emailed that request.
Max
> 
> From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> Date: 2006/01/02 Mon PM 01:25:46 EST
> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Subject: Re: [HN] Application to emigrate
> 
> Hi Max,
> 
>       You could write to the Hannover archives center and ask them.  I would
> think you could get an answer there:
> 
>  poststelle(a)staatsarchiv-h.niedersachsen.de
> 
> Good luck,
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> on 1/2/06 10:26 AM, Max Burgdorf at pharmaxx(a)charter.net wrote:
> 
> > Several weeks ago I asked this question but got no response Maybe I will this
> > time around.
> > In the middle 1800's if a native of Hannover appled for a request to emigrate
> > to America, was there a time limit that such authorization was limited to? ie,
> > could someone after getting such authorization emigrate 10 years after the
> > original dated document?
> > Thanks for any input.
> > Max
> > ______________________________________________
> > 
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 

RE: [HN] Steinberg

Date: 2006/01/02 20:39:12
From: Paul Scheele <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>

I think Barbara was correct. I have a Familienbuch for Gnarrenburg and it
lists a marriage for Claus Hinrich STEINBERG from Franzhorn and Maria
OERDING in Sept. 1859. Parents of Claus were Diedrich and Gesche Maria
GLAHN. Parents of Maria were Christoph and Rebecka VIEBROCK.

There is only one other STEINBERG listed, That was a Hinrich STEINBERG and
wife Margarete PRIGGE who lived in Billit. No children are listed for either
couple.

Paul Scheele

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
> bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Christina und Horst Rauschenberg
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:41 AM
> To: Hannover-L
> Subject: Re: [HN] Steinberg
> 
> Good morning.
> The most likely parish church would be Gnarrenburg.  The LDS have records
> that may include your family:
> 
> Kirchenbuch, 1715-1852 Evangelische Kirche Kuhstedt (Kr. Bremervörde)
> 
> Kirchenbuch, 1790-1852 Evangelische Kirche Gnarrenburg (Kr. Bremervörde)
> 
> Thats wrong. The parish church is Kirchwistedt.
> Greatings
> Horst Rauschenberg
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:10 AM
> Subject: [HN] Steinberg
> 
> 
> Hello Sue,
> 
>        I haven't found the ship on which Claus Steinberg came to the U.S.
> If you are interested in other information about him with pictures of the
> area where he lived, you should look at this website:
>    http://rycomms.com/gallery/steinberg?page=1
> 
>      Perhaps you have already seen it.  By the way, the tiny town is
> listed
> on the map I have as Franzenhorn near Brillet which is just north of
> Gnarrenburg.
> 
>    The most likely parish church would be Gnarrenburg.  The LDS have
> records
> that may include your family:
> 
> Kirchenbuch, 1715-1852 Evangelische Kirche Kuhstedt (Kr. Bremervörde)
> 
> Kirchenbuch, 1790-1852 Evangelische Kirche Gnarrenburg (Kr. Bremervörde)
> 
>      Perhaps you already have all that information.  Your request was
> about
> the ship Claus would have been on.  I checked Castlegarden.org - there are
> many Steinbergs listed there, but no Claus.
> 
>      By the way, there are 2 entries for Claus Steinberg from Brillet on
> Rootsweb World Connect.
> 
> Good luck,
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on 12/31/05 11:01 PM, SngKetner(a)cs.com at SngKetner(a)cs.com wrote:
> 
> > Dear List:
> > Happy New Year!
> > I tried on Ancestry.com to find my great-grandfather Claus Steinberg,
> > but I had no luck.  Mainly, what I am asking is how to find the records
> of
> > what
> > ship he came over on to the U. S. from Bremen, Germany to Baltimore,
> > Maryland,
> > USA.  He was born in Franzhorn, Hannover, Germany in 1835.  He, and
> > possibly
> > one son, emigrated to the USA circa 1880 to 1885.  His wife, Maria, and
> 6
> > of
> > her children, and her sister, also born in Hannover, Germany, came over
> on
> > the
> > ship, Oder, in 1884, landing in New York City, USA.
> > Thank you to anyone who can help me.
> > Regards; Sue, in Altoona, Pa. USA.
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Suche Striepe - Leverenz

Date: 2006/01/02 21:27:15
From: gloepertz <gloepertz(a)comcast.net>

Hallo Albert Emmerich
Schauen Sie mal nach den Filn Nummer 1189517, Evangelische Kirchenbuch 1798-1852 für Neuenkirchen von den Mormonen.
Grüße aus Michigan
Günter

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Emmerich.Albert(a)t-online.de 

> Hallo Günter Löpertz, 
> leider zeigen die Mormonen keine Eintragungen aus den Kirchspielen Neuenkirchen 
> und Schneverdingen, da hatte ich schon gesucht. Die Original-Kirchenbücher muß 
> ich bei Gelegenheit noch durchsuchen. Vielen Dank für den Hinweis auf das 
> Adressbuch Hannover 1942, ich bin am Samstag in Hannover in einer Bibliothek, da 
> werde ich nachschauen. 
> Die Grüße werde ich ausrichten. 
> 
> Alles Gute nach Michigan 
> Albert Emmerich 
> 
> P.S. "manchmal muß man um drei Ecken fahren, um neben an anzukommen" JA! Aber 
> dank Internet fahren wir heute sehr schnell um die ganze Welt - und mit die 
> besten Informationen über meine Vorfahren aus einer anderen Ecke von Deutschland 
> erhalte ich inzwischen aus den USA (dank der Mormonen-Mikrofilme, die dort eine 
> Genealogin für den betreffenden Bereich sehr gründlich bearbeitet hat). Deswegen 
> lohnt sich der "Ausflug" auch in entferntere Ecken der Welt, da kommen sehr 
> interessante Kontakte zustande! 
> 
> schrieb: 
> > Hallo Herr Emmerich 
> > Es könnt sein, das die Kirchenbücher, die von den Mormonen für Neuenkirchen, 
> ein halben Kilometer südlich von Delmsen, die Geburt oder Taufe von Hinrich 
> Leverenz haben, dabei die Eltern von ihn. Diese Kirchenbücher manchmal haben 
> auch Notizen für Kinder und weitere Heiraten. Manchmal muss man drei mal um die 
> Ecke fahren, um neben an, an zu kommen. 
> > Im Adressbuch von Hannover 1942 sind auch Striepe und Leverenz. 
> > Günter Löpertz in Michigan, USA 
> > Falls Sie die Gelegentheit haben, grüßen sie meine Cousine Helga 
> > Jagieniak in Cremlingen. Wir waren vor einem Jahr dort für Besuch. 
> > 
> 
> ______________________________________________ 
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list 
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

Re: [HN] Application to emigrate

Date: 2006/01/02 21:56:38
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

I'd be curious if a definitive answer can be found in this regard. To my knowledge, beyond statistical value, most permits to emigrate were of little interest to the authorities in Germany. The main reasons for issuing them were to control military conscription-age requests of young men, to ensure that the emigrant has paid his debts when he left and had additional funds for the trip (so the home country wouldn't have to bail him out during the journey), and that those under age had sufficient protection by accompanying adults, or at a minimum, were protected at their intended place of settlement. This of course being over and beyond the papers serving as an official legal declaration of abandonment (release) of German citizenship.

Depending on where they resided in Germany, most applying for such permits had to appear before a "Gemeinderat" (local council) or "Oberamt" (county administration) or "Bezirksamt" (county office), etc., to declare their intentions, and allow the legal investigations, as necessary, to begin. Often other government or controlling agencies would often be solicited or referred to. All creditors of the emigrant might be summoned to appear at some point. An announcement of the emigration was generally ordered in the local public paper and community bulletin board. Sometimes these proceedings could take a month or two to complete. There would be little reason or incentive, after such procedures ran their course, for the emigrant (or emigrant family) to procrastinate embarking.

If you get additional details from the Hannover Archives Center per Barb's suggestion, perhaps you could post it for the list.

Jb

On 1/2/06 10:26 AM, Max Burgdorf <pharmaxx(a)charter.net> wrote:
Several weeks ago I asked this question but got no response Maybe I will this time around. In the middle 1800's if a native of Hannover appled for a request to emigrate to America, was there a time limit that such authorization was limited to? ie, could someone after getting such authorization emigrate 10 years after the original dated document?
Thanks for any input.
Max

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[HN] in german language please ??? Application to emigrate

Date: 2006/01/02 22:02:15
From: Wambach-Koeln <Wambach-Koeln(a)t-online.de>

 "J b" <mailto:johnbrene(a)hotmail.com> schrieb:
> I'd be curious if a definitive answer can be found in this regard. To my 
> knowledge, beyond statistical value, most permits to emigrate were of little 
> interest to the authorities in Germany. The main reasons for issuing them 
> were to control military conscription-age requests of young men, to ensure 
> that the emigrant has paid his debts when he left and had additional funds 
> for the trip (so the home country wouldn't have to bail him out during the 
> journey), and that those under age had sufficient protection by accompanying 
> adults, or at a minimum, were protected at their intended place of 
> settlement. This of course being over and beyond the papers serving as an 
> official legal declaration of abandonment (release) of German citizenship.
> 
> Depending on where they resided in Germany, most applying for such permits 
> had to appear before a "Gemeinderat" (local council) or "Oberamt" (county 
> administration) or "Bezirksamt" (county office), etc., to declare their 
> intentions, and allow the legal investigations, as necessary, to begin. 
> Often other government or controlling agencies would often be solicited or 
> referred to. All creditors of the emigrant might be summoned to appear at 
> some point. An announcement of the emigration was generally ordered in the 
> local public paper and community bulletin board. Sometimes these proceedings 
> could take a month or two to complete. There would be little reason or 
> incentive, after such procedures ran their course, for the emigrant (or 
> emigrant family) to procrastinate embarking.
> 
> If you get additional details from the Hannover Archives Center per Barb's 
> suggestion, perhaps you could post it for the list.
> 
> Jb
> 
> On 1/2/06 10:26 AM, Max Burgdorf <mailto:pharmaxx(a)charter.net> wrote:
> >Several weeks ago I asked this question but got no response Maybe I will 
> >this time around. In the middle 1800's if a native of Hannover appled for a 
> >request to emigrate to America, was there a time limit that such 
> >authorization was limited to? ie, could someone after getting such 
> >authorization emigrate 10 years after the original dated document?
> Thanks for any input.
> Max
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
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> 
> 

Re: [HN] DÖRRY in Braunschweig

Date: 2006/01/02 22:51:06
From: ClaraLotte(a)t-online.de <ClaraLotte(a)t-online.de>



[HN] In German language please ?? Application to emigrate

Date: 2006/01/02 22:54:27
From: Wambach-Koeln <Wambach-Koeln(a)t-online.de>

 "J b" <mailto:johnbrene(a)hotmail.com> schrieb:
> I'd be curious if a definitive answer can be found in this regard. To my 
> knowledge, beyond statistical value, most permits to emigrate were of little 
> interest to the authorities in Germany. The main reasons for issuing them 
> were to control military conscription-age requests of young men, to ensure 
> that the emigrant has paid his debts when he left and had additional funds 
> for the trip (so the home country wouldn't have to bail him out during the 
> journey), and that those under age had sufficient protection by accompanying 
> adults, or at a minimum, were protected at their intended place of 
> settlement. This of course being over and beyond the papers serving as an 
> official legal declaration of abandonment (release) of German citizenship.
> 
> Depending on where they resided in Germany, most applying for such permits 
> had to appear before a "Gemeinderat" (local council) or "Oberamt" (county 
> administration) or "Bezirksamt" (county office), etc., to declare their 
> intentions, and allow the legal investigations, as necessary, to begin. 
> Often other government or controlling agencies would often be solicited or 
> referred to. All creditors of the emigrant might be summoned to appear at 
> some point. An announcement of the emigration was generally ordered in the 
> local public paper and community bulletin board. Sometimes these proceedings 
> could take a month or two to complete. There would be little reason or 
> incentive, after such procedures ran their course, for the emigrant (or 
> emigrant family) to procrastinate embarking.
> 
> If you get additional details from the Hannover Archives Center per Barb's 
> suggestion, perhaps you could post it for the list.
> 
> Jb
> 
> On 1/2/06 10:26 AM, Max Burgdorf <mailto:pharmaxx(a)charter.net> wrote:
> >Several weeks ago I asked this question but got no response Maybe I will 
> >this time around. In the middle 1800's if a native of Hannover appled for a 
> >request to emigrate to America, was there a time limit that such 
> >authorization was limited to? ie, could someone after getting such 
> >authorization emigrate 10 years after the original dated document?
> Thanks for any input.
> Max
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> mailto:Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 

Re: [HN] DÖRRY in Braunschweig

Date: 2006/01/02 22:56:14
From: ClaraLotte(a)t-online.de <ClaraLotte(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Rainer,

man könnte es hier in BS im Stadtarchiv versuchen.
Soll ich da mal vorbei schauen, liegt direkt auf meinem Weg zur Arbeit.

Gruß aus BS
Thomas


-----Original Message-----
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 12:14:44 +0100
Subject: [HN] DÖRRY in Braunschweig
From: Rainer Dörry 
To: Mailing-L Hannover 

hallo Liste,
nach ein paar weihnachtlichen Grüßen in die Runde möchte ich mal eine
Anfrage stellen, da ich die letzten Tage einige neue Erkenntnisse
erworben habe.

Nach Auskunft einer privaten Chronik gibt es in Braunschweig einen
Rudolph August Dörry, * unbekannt, oo 18. 10. 1731 mit Anna Dorothea
Catharina Colditz, * unbekannt, eingetragen im Kirchenbuch in St. Magni,
Braunschweig.
Sohn: Thedel Ulrich Dörry, * 27. 01. 1749 in Braunschweig, eingetragen
im St. Ägidien, Braunschweig.

Wo könnten die Kirchenbücher dieser Jahre vorliegen und einsehbar sein.
Bei den Mormonen gibt es keine Verfilmung

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Rainer [Dörry]

--
Rainer Doerry, Paradiesstr. 28, 65396 Walluf
Tel.: 06123-993221 - Fax: 01212-5-114-27-216
Handy: 0173-3100315 - email: rainer(a)rainer-doerry.de
http://www.rainer-doerry.de/Ahnenforschung/




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[HN] Emigration to U. S.

Date: 2006/01/02 22:56:53
From: Pat Huck <phck1(a)charter.net>

I have been searching for about 10 years to find the emigration records of 3 families (we think related) the last names are Buehne, Middeke and Hinkamp.  They all lived together for a year in Clinton County Illinois near Germantown.  They were from the Ankum area. I have the Buehne family history in Germany and in the U.S. but I can't connect them with ship records.  Family stories say they came thru New Orleans sometime between 1838 and 1842.  When I was in Germany last year I went to the archives, etc. and found no records of any of these families.  Where else could the records be?  Where are the records from the Ships agents?  Thanks for any help you can give Pat Huck

Re: [HN] Application to emigrate

Date: 2006/01/03 00:33:37
From: Mona <HeritageHunt(a)Sandyview.info>

Max Burgdorf wrote:

In the middle 1800's if a native of Hannover appled for a request to emigrate to America, was there a time limit that such authorization was limited to? ie, could someone after getting such authorization emigrate 10 years after the original dated document?

Hi Max,
I know nothing about an application to emigrate from Hannover. And I don't know what you mean by middle 1800's.

But here's just a little evidence to consider.

I have a scan of my g-grandfather's permission to emigrate from Pommern, dated 5 April 1879. It's on-line at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/labs/emperm.htm
along with a transcription and translation.

It states that, "This release certificate pertains explicitly to the above named persons who, at the time of delivery of the statement, will loose their Prussian citizenship, but it will, however, become invalid, if the released (person) does not within six months the day of the issuing of the release certificate, have his residence outside the country, or obtains citizenship in another German State."

It would seem to me that 10 years difference between the permission and the emigration would indicate that you are looking at 2 different individuals. But that's just my opinion, which isn't worth much. :-)

Mona

--
Mona Houser
HeritageHunt(a)sandyview.info
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/

Re: [HN] Part 2 - History

Date: 2006/01/03 00:43:03
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
I got my version from the many guys coming back from over there. Don't forget, everything at the time was so shrouded in secrecy, censorship, propaganda and fables that we finally accepted as "truth" only those accounts brought back by the men who were there - and by that time we didn't believe any of the "official" reasons for just about anything.

Unfortunately, the movie “Patton” (1970), like many Hollywood movies, is not very accurate either. It completely mischaracterizes Patton and shows him as a general who would do anything for a victory, irregardless of the casualties it would inflict upon his men. It also perpetuates the stereotype of “Blood and Guts” Patton (an expression coined by reporters during WWII, not Patton’s soldiers). Most egregious of all, it makes Bradley and the politically-appointed Eisenhower into heroes that were “tempering” the childish Patton’s ways. It was not Eisenhower's "tolerance" of Patton that mattered as much as was his need for him as the leading American strategist in the Allied invasion of Europe (note that even the German military brass considered him America's best general). His only true rival in this regard, MacArthur, was already in command of the Asian Theatre.

One of the biggest problems with the “Patton” movie - and consequently how most people now know him - is that General Bradley was the military adviser for it, and the two couldn't be more mismatched in their style and approach. Despite the way the movie makes it seem, Patton was in reality rather introverted and extremely respectful professional. The reason we know his personal opinion of commanders is not because he expressed them aloud, but because he kept them in a private, personal diary. Despite the way the movie makes it seem, Patton did not sack men without a moment’s regard to them, he did not curse like a sailor, and he did not believe in “victory at all costs” in spite of casualty lists. George C. Scott himself protested a number of scenes in the movie (but was ultimately overruled by the studio heads) when it came to portraying Patton as practically indifferent to his men’s welfare.

If you want to find out what kind of man he really was, try reading "The Patton Papers" which include his diary and letters, or "Patton Uncovered" by B. E. Boland (from whom I've excerpted). For a more illuminating big screen capture of Patton, I'd suggest the second Patton movie (TV-movie) which also stars George C. Scott, "The Last Days of Patton" (1986). This one covers the period of Patton's life from the end of WWII to his death, and is a far more sensitive portrayal of the man and his not-so-simple views.

Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
Gen. Patton was ready to occupy all of Germany but under orders from Roosevelt, Eisenhower held back gasoline supplies for his tanks, etc. and he could not go further. Later he was shot in the back (friendly fire!!!).

Not shot in the back, but possibly stabbed in the back.

His death, like so much else regarding his persona, is steeped in controversy. The circumstances behind it almost defy belief, especially after leading his troops 'at the point' for so long (though accidents can and do happen). The "official" account (as Per-Olav accurately described) may or may not reach the bottom line. For a brief perspective of the 'doubters' from this camp, take a look at http://rense.com/general63/patton.htm (Jeff Rense). It is only one view of many that exist in this regard.

Jb

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Re: Re: [HN] Application to emigrate

Date: 2006/01/03 01:06:59
From: Max Burgdorf <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

Hi Mona
The text of your ggradnfather's permission to emigrate tells me pretty much what I want to know. It makes sense to assume that 10 years is much too long. I did contact Hannovian archives to get the offical practice. 
By mid 1800's I mean the years roughly 1840 to 1860. And of course regulations would vary from kingdom to kingdom.
If I get anything at odds with your info I will post it.
Max
> 
> From: Mona <HeritageHunt(a)Sandyview.info>
> Date: 2006/01/02 Mon PM 06:41:27 EST
> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Subject: Re: [HN] Application to emigrate
> 
> Max Burgdorf wrote:
> 
> > In the middle 1800's if a native of Hannover appled for a request to emigrate to America, was there a time limit that such authorization was limited to? ie, could someone after getting such authorization emigrate 10 years after the original dated document?
> 
> Hi Max,
> I know nothing about an application to emigrate from Hannover. And I 
> don't know what you mean by middle 1800's.
> 
> But here's just a little evidence to consider.
> 
> I have a scan of my g-grandfather's permission to emigrate from Pommern, 
> dated 5 April 1879.    It's on-line at
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/labs/emperm.htm
> along with a transcription and translation.
> 
> It states that, "This release certificate pertains explicitly to the 
> above named persons who, at the time of delivery of the statement, will 
> loose their Prussian citizenship, but it will, however, become invalid, 
> if the released (person) does not within six months the day of the 
> issuing of the release certificate, have his residence outside the 
> country, or obtains citizenship in another German State."
> 
> It would seem to me that 10 years difference between the permission and 
> the emigration would indicate that you are looking at 2 different 
> individuals.  But that's just my opinion, which isn't worth much. :-)
> 
> Mona
> 
> -- 
> Mona Houser
> HeritageHunt(a)sandyview.info
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 

[HN] Re: Application to Emigrate

Date: 2006/01/03 01:56:28
From: Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>

Hi Max:  I can't answer your question for sure.  But one of my collateral ancestors applied in Hoya between 1868-70 but then lived in Bremen for almost 10 years before actually leaving.  I've assumed that he had to earn money for the passage (had several children) and I do know that in order to work in Bremen at that time one had to become a citizen of Bremen (as opposed to Hannover).  And all this presumably took a great deal of time.  So I don't imagine there were official time limits - however, remember that Prussia tried to put every obstacle in their way, esp. those from Hannover.   Jane


Jane Swan
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

Re: [HN] Emigration to U. S.

Date: 2006/01/03 03:30:28
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Pat,
     I do believe that there are a number of New Orleans shiplists missing.
I surely can't find some of my people and I'm quite sure that they came that
way.  There is a website that is about New Orleans passenger lists:

http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/neworleans.html
 
    Some have been indexed and you can get the films for that through
National Archives centers or the LDS or you can pay for the information
through that site above.  There is an index on that site for the  years of
1851- 1852.  

Barbara

on 1/2/06 2:47 PM, Pat Huck at phck1(a)charter.net wrote:

> I have been searching for about 10 years to find the emigration records of 3
> families (we think related) the last names are Buehne, Middeke and Hinkamp.
> They all lived together for a year in Clinton County Illinois near Germantown.
> They were from the Ankum area. I have the Buehne family history in Germany and
> in the U.S. but I can't connect them with ship records.  Family stories say
> they came thru New Orleans sometime between 1838 and 1842.  When I was in
> Germany last year I went to the archives, etc. and found no records of any of
> these families.  Where else could the records be?  Where are the records from
> the Ships agents?  Thanks for any help you can give Pat Huck
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43

Date: 2006/01/03 04:58:48
From: Gary Stoltman <stopan(a)optonline.net>

Bobbi:

Were these internees recent émigrés?

Gary Stoltman
Mercerville, NJ

----- Original Message ----- From: "bobbidoll" <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 2:31 AM
Subject: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43








--- On Tue 12/27, jo meyer < gutenmorgen(a)mail.com > wrote:

Some maybe got it bad<br>and others not as much. It may have helped for those who lived in the<br>same area to be together sharing the pain. However , at least it did not<br>get as bad as being sent to camps like the japanese.


I beg to differ. Some German-Americans were sent to camps just as the Japanese were. There weren't as many, but never the less some were. The German-American community had asked for an apology from the US government.

Bobbi

_______________________________________________
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Re: [HN] Orphanage in Düsseldorf

Date: 2006/01/03 05:18:58
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Claire,
      Perhaps you could contact this group of Dominican Sisters who are in
or near Düsseldorf.  The website is in German, but there is an email address
there.  They may know some English, unless you yourself can write in German!
Or maybe someone on the list who can write in German could compose a letter
for you.

  http://www.dominikanerinnen-angermund.de/

I really hope this works out for you,

Barbara




on 1/1/06 5:53 PM, R&B Stewart at raybarbara(a)comcast.net wrote:

> Barbara again,
> 
> I forgot something.  I also read that Dominican Sisters had a orphanage
> in Düsseldorf.  
> I bet we could find something on that--I will try later.  Out of time now!
> 
> "A Dominican Sisters' community and 100 children were evacuated from a
> bombed orphanage at Düsseldorf in 1943 and lived here till 1947."
> 
> 
> on 1/1/06 5:41 PM, R&B Stewart at raybarbara(a)comcast.net wrote:
> 
>> Hello Claire,
>> 
>> I remember that you were looking for that orphanage some time ago!
>> Still no luck, I guess.  By doing Google searches, I read that there were
>> both a Lutheran and a Catholic orphanage (waisenhaus) in Düsseldorf.  I also
>> read that an orphanage in Düsseldorf was bombed in the war.
>> 
>> Did you ever write to anyone in Düsseldorf?
>> This is a page for the diocese of Essen (which, I think, would include
>> Düsseldorf):  
>> 
>> http://www.archive.nrw.de/home.asp?bta-essen
>> There is an email address there that you could use to get some information.
>> You could write to the diocese of Essen or other archives in Düsseldorf as
>> listed. 
>> 
>> By doing a Google search on "orphanage in Dusseldorf" I found a reference to
>> an article at this address:
>> 
>> http://muse.jhu.edu/cgi-bin/access.cgi?uri=/journals/catholic_historical_rev
>> iew/v088/88.2yonke.html
>> It seems to be a historical journal which you can only access through a
>> library or such. I'm not sure how much specific information it would give.
>> 
>> I wish you luck.  That is a unique search.
>> 
>> Barbara
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Question:  My grandmother (CLARA HOLSTEIN) was in an Orphanage in
>>> Duesseldorf
>>> about 1895.  I believe it was a Catholic Orphanage--where would I look for
>>> records?
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
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>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
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Re: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43

Date: 2006/01/03 05:43:17
From: Patricia Knight <pknight1(a)fidnet.com>

Bobbi
When and where ...were these camps that you speak of????
Thanks

Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "bobbidoll" <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:31 AM
Subject: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43


>
>
>
>
>
>
>  --- On Tue 12/27, jo meyer < gutenmorgen(a)mail.com > wrote:
>
>  Some maybe got it bad<br>and others not as much. It may have helped for
those who lived in the<br>same area to be together sharing the  pain.
However , at least it did not<br>get as bad as being sent to camps like the
japanese.
>
>
> I beg to differ.  Some German-Americans were sent to camps just as the
Japanese were.  There weren't as many, but never the less some were.  The
German-American community had asked for an apology from the US government.
>
> Bobbi
>
> _______________________________________________
> No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
> Make My Way  your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com
>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
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[HN] Re: Application to emigrate

Date: 2006/01/03 06:46:37
From: FalkLiebe <FalkLiebe(a)t-online.de>

Dear Max and Barbara, 

Last year they changed the organization of the Staatsarchive in
Niedersachsen.
There used to be seven almost independent state archives in the country, 
Now they have got a president of the Niedersaechsisches Landesarchiv in 
Hannover (Bernd Kappelhoff) and accordingly the email addresses were changed
as well. So the "staatsarchiv" in the address will not get you anywhere,

Rather use: 

Hannover(a)nla.niedersachsen.de

Greetings from Diepholz

Falk (Liebezeit)

From: Max Burgdorf <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Re: [HN] Application to emigrate
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Message-ID: <4l55ks$11s8gbp(a)mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Thank you Barbara. I just emailed that request.
Max
> 
> From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> Date: 2006/01/02 Mon PM 01:25:46 EST
> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Subject: Re: [HN] Application to emigrate
> 
> Hi Max,
> 
>       You could write to the Hannover archives center and ask them.  I
would
> think you could get an answer there:
> 
>  poststelle(a)staatsarchiv-h.niedersachsen.de
> 
> Good luck,
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> on 1/2/06 10:26 AM, Max Burgdorf at pharmaxx(a)charter.net wrote:
> 
> > Several weeks ago I asked this question but got no response Maybe I will
this
> > time around.
> > In the middle 1800's if a native of Hannover appled for a request to
emigrate
> > to America, was there a time limit that such authorization was limited
to? ie,
> > could someone after getting such authorization emigrate 10 years after
the
> > original dated document?
> > Thanks for any input.
> > Max 



Re: [HN] Application to emigrate

Date: 2006/01/03 07:31:57
From: Gary Stoltman <stopan(a)optonline.net>

Hi Max

My g-uncle received approval from the courts in Hannover in 1852. I've seen no time limit on the document, but . . .??

Gary Stoltman
Mercerville, NJ

----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Burgdorf" <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:26 PM
Subject: [HN] Application to emigrate


Several weeks ago I asked this question but got no response Maybe I will this time around. In the middle 1800's if a native of Hannover appled for a request to emigrate to America, was there a time limit that such authorization was limited to? ie, could someone after getting such authorization emigrate 10 years after the original dated document?
Thanks for any input.
Max
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Re: [HN] Emigration to U. S.

Date: 2006/01/03 07:58:47
From: Gary Stoltman <stopan(a)optonline.net>

Hi Pat

About the right arrival date. Name match? Good hunting

Gary Stoltman
Mercerville, NJ


     Baltimore Passenger and Immigration Lists, 1820-1872




                 Name: Ernestine Buehne
                 Arrival Date: 06 Jul 1842
                 Age: 34
                 Gender: Female
                 Port of Departure: Bremen
                 Ship: Rebecca
                 Port of Arrival: Baltimore
                 Place of Origin: Biskernhen
                 National Archives' Series Number: M255
                 Microfilm Roll Number: 3
                 List Number: 31
                 Destination: Louisville



----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Huck" <phck1(a)charter.net>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:47 PM
Subject: [HN] Emigration to U. S.


I have been searching for about 10 years to find the emigration records of 3 families (we think related) the last names are Buehne, Middeke and Hinkamp. They all lived together for a year in Clinton County Illinois near Germantown. They were from the Ankum area. I have the Buehne family history in Germany and in the U.S. but I can't connect them with ship records. Family stories say they came thru New Orleans sometime between 1838 and 1842. When I was in Germany last year I went to the archives, etc. and found no records of any of these families. Where else could the records be? Where are the records from the Ships agents? Thanks for any help you can give Pat Huck
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RE: [HN] In German language please ?? Application to emigrate

Date: 2006/01/03 08:20:26
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Hallo <Wambach-Koeln(a)t-online.de> [und Ihr Name?]. Betreff Ihrer Anfrage ~

[übersetzt]

I would be curious if a definitive answer can be found in this regard. To my knowledge, beyond statistical value, most permits to emigrate were of little interest to the authorities in Germany. The main reasons for issuing them were to control military conscription-age requests of young men, to ensure that the emigrant had paid his debts when he left (and had additional funds for the trip so the home country wouldn't have to bail him out during the journey), and to verify that those under age had sufficient protection by accompanying adults, or at a minimum, were protected at their intended place of settlement. The above stated is, of course, in addition to the these papers serving as an official legal declaration of abandonment (release) of German citizenship.

Ich frage mich, ob man auf Ihre Anfrage eine zweifelsfreie Antwort geben kann. Meines Erachtens hatten die Zulassungscheine für eine Auswanderung für die deutschen Behörden über den statistischen Wert hinaus keine große Bedeutung. Für die Ausstellung der Scheine bestanden drei Gründe: zur Kontrolle der Anfragen bezüglich des Wehrpflichtalters junger Männer; zur Sicherstellung der Schuldenfreiheit des Emigranten zum Zeitpunkt der Auswanderung (sowie zur Sicherstellung der zusätzlichen Zahlungsfähigkeit des Emigranten für die Reisedauer, um zu vermeiden, daß das Vaterland dem Emigranten im Verlauf der Reise aus der finanziellen Bredouille helfen müßte; und zur Prüfung des ausreichenden Schutzes von Minderjährigen seitens entsprechender Begleitpersonen oder daß sie zumindest am vorgesehenen Niederlassungsort adäquat geschützt würden. Die eben erwaehnten Verfahrensschritte dienen lediglich zur Unterstuetzung dieser Dokumente, die, fuer sich genommen, bereits als offizielle und gesetzlich gueltige Erklaerung hinsichtlich der Ablage der deutschen Staatsbuergerschaft fungieren.

Depending on where they resided in Germany, most applying for such permits had to appear before a "Gemeinderat" (local council) or "Oberamt" (county administration) or "Bezirksamt" (county office), etc., to declare their intentions, and allow possible legal investigations, as necessary, to begin. Other government or controlling agencies would often be solicited or referred to. All creditors of the emigrant might be summoned to appear at some point. An announcement of the emigration (or intended emigration) was generally ordered in the local public paper and community bulletin board. Sometimes these proceedings could take up to a month or two to complete. There would be little reason or incentive, after such procedures ran their course, for the emigrant (or emigrant family) to procrastinate or delay embarking.

Je nach Wohnort in Deutschland mußten die Bewerber um derartige Zulassungsscheine entweder vor dem jeweiligen Gemeinderat, Oberamt oder Bezirksamt erscheinen, um ihr Vorhaben anzumelden und etwaige gesetzliche Untersuchungen wie zum Beispiel die Beschaffung eines Führungszeugnisses einzuleiten. In diesem Zusammenhang wurden oftmals andere Regierungsbehörden oder weitere Kontrollausschüsse um Auskunft oder ein Gutachten gebeten. Sämtliche Gläubiger des Auswanderers hatten durchaus im Verlauf des Bewerbungsverfahrens vor die zuständige Behörde zitiert werden können. Eine öffentliche Notiz der Auswanderung (oder geplanten Auswanderung) mußte im Normalfall im Lokalblatt oder in den Gemeindenachrichten aufgegeben werden. Manchmal konnte es bis zum Abschluß eines solchen Verfahrens durchaus durchaus ein oder zwei Monate dauern. Nach gewohntem Prozedere bestand für den Auswanderer (oder die Auswandererfamilie) weder Grund noch Anlaß den Plan in die Länge zu ziehen oder den Reiseantritt ungebührlich zu verzögern.

If you get additional details from the Archives per Barbara's suggestion, perhaps you could post it for us.

Falls Sie auf Barbaras Vorschlag hin auf zusätzliche Einzelheiten in dem vorliegenden Archivmaterial stoßen sollten, wäre ich Ihnen sehr verbunden, wenn Sie mir diese ebenso zukommen lassen könnten.

Hopefully this hacks it und is not mucked too bad. ;)

Ich hoffe, mich verstaendlich gemacht zu haben und dass nicht zu viel in der obigen Uebersetzung verloren gegangen ist.

Greets from SoCal, Jb

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RE: [HN] Emigration to U. S.

Date: 2006/01/03 09:35:41
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Not to cast a gloomy spell here but you may never find them. Your chances realistically for that time period are probably 50/50 (60/40?) at best. New Orleans port arrivals, like every other port, are not without omissions and gaps and lost ledgers. It is often a more matter of luck than anything else in the end. Your chances of "connecting" always improve with time (with more recent arrivals). There is not a plentitude of indexes for the period you cited unfortunately. I assume you have confirmed their presence stateside via the 1840 or 1850 census, correct? Also try ALL family members who may have 'jumped the pond' in the 1900 + 1910 censuses (assuming some lived that long). Those censuses spell out this kind of information in greater detail!

You may to expand your searches once you've hit the wall. Perhaps the family (or some members of it) came in through a different embarkation point than family lore suggests. Or via an indirect route, like England. In the end you may have to try arrival ports like New York, Boston, Baltimore, Philadelphia, etc. (as applicable). You could also attempt to locate early family members' naturalization papers on the US side, which might produce additional clues. These records can also be frustrating to locate, but the search is invariably worth it when they (any) are uncovered. Also check local histories of the area(s) they first settled in for immigration patterns or bio sketches. Suffice to say, be prepared to dive deep and dive often. I've been at this game longer than I care to remember (started in my teens), and I have YET to find a some of them. But don't quit trying!

Jb

PS. Try to remember to NOTE everything you search (or have searched) along these lines, regardless of results. Nothing like going over the same old ground time and again, only to ultimately realize you've been there before.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Huck" <phck1(a)charter.net>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:47 PM
Subject: [HN] Emigration to U. S.

I have been searching for about 10 years to find the emigration records of 3 families (we think related) the last names are Buehne, Middeke and Hinkamp. They all lived together for a year in Clinton County Illinois near Germantown. They were from the Ankum area. I have the Buehne family history in Germany and in the U.S. but I can't connect them with ship records. Family stories say they came thru New Orleans sometime between 1838 and 1842. When I was in Germany last year I went to the archives, etc. and found no records of any of these families. Where else could the records be? Where are the records from the Ships agents? Thanks for any help you can give Pat Huck

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Re: [HN] Application to emigrate

Date: 2006/01/03 09:55:39
From: krumbar <krumbar(a)comcast.net>

My grandfather's permission to emigrate is in two parts -- because he was a minor of age 17. There is his father's affidavit that he has his parents' permission to emigrate and then the government document.

Even though it pertains to emigration from Ost Friesland rather than Hannover, I'm sure the documents were standard, though he did not emigrate until about 1917 (without looking that's a guesstimate.) I have been planning to post it on my Web site since I got it just last week, and will get to that sooner rather than later, but not before this afternoon. I'll let you know when it is up. I have both the German document and an English translation done by my aunt.

Loretta

--
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~loretta

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Mona <HeritageHunt(a)Sandyview.info> 

> Max Burgdorf wrote: 
> 
> > In the middle 1800's if a native of Hannover appled for a request to emigrate 
> to America, was there a time limit that such authorization was limited to? ie, 
> could someone after getting such authorization emigrate 10 years after the 
> original dated document? 
> 
> Hi Max, 
> I know nothing about an application to emigrate from Hannover. And I 
> don't know what you mean by middle 1800's. 
> 
> But here's just a little evidence to consider. 
> 
> I have a scan of my g-grandfather's permission to emigrate from Pommern, 
> dated 5 April 1879. It's on-line at 
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/labs/emperm.htm 
> along with a transcription and translation. 
> 
> It states that, "This release certificate pertains explicitly to the 
> above named persons who, at the time of delivery of the statement, will 
> loose their Prussian citizenship, but it will, however, become invalid, 
> if the released (person) does not within six months the day of the 
> issuing of the release certificate, have his residence outside the 
> country, or obtains citizenship in another German State." 
> 
> It would seem to me that 10 years difference between the permission and 
> the emigration would indicate that you are looking at 2 different 
> individuals. But that's just my opinion, which isn't worth much. :-) 
> 
> Mona 
> 
> -- 
> Mona Houser 
> HeritageHunt(a)sandyview.info 
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/ 
> ______________________________________________ 
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list 
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

Re: [HN] DÖRRY in Braunschweig

Date: 2006/01/03 10:07:23
From: Rainer Dörry <rainer(a)rainer-doerry.de>

Hallo Thomas,
das wäre unheimlich nett. Dann könnte ich wenigstens mal hoffen, Auskunft zu kriegen
Danke und viele Grüße

Rainer [Dörry]

ClaraLotte(a)t-online.de schrieb:

Hallo Rainer,

man könnte es hier in BS im Stadtarchiv versuchen.
Soll ich da mal vorbei schauen, liegt direkt auf meinem Weg zur Arbeit.

Gruß aus BS
Thomas


-----Original Message-----
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 12:14:44 +0100
Subject: [HN] DÖRRY in Braunschweig
From: Rainer Dörry To: Mailing-L Hannover
hallo Liste,
nach ein paar weihnachtlichen Grüßen in die Runde möchte ich mal eine
Anfrage stellen, da ich die letzten Tage einige neue Erkenntnisse
erworben habe.

Nach Auskunft einer privaten Chronik gibt es in Braunschweig einen
Rudolph August Dörry, * unbekannt, oo 18. 10. 1731 mit Anna Dorothea
Catharina Colditz, * unbekannt, eingetragen im Kirchenbuch in St. Magni,
Braunschweig.
Sohn: Thedel Ulrich Dörry, * 27. 01. 1749 in Braunschweig, eingetragen
im St. Ägidien, Braunschweig.

Wo könnten die Kirchenbücher dieser Jahre vorliegen und einsehbar sein.
Bei den Mormonen gibt es keine Verfilmung

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Rainer [Dörry]
--
Rainer Doerry, Paradiesstr. 28, 65396 Walluf
Tel.: 06123-993221 - Fax: 01212-5-114-27-216
Handy: 0173-3100315 - email: rainer(a)rainer-doerry.de
http://www.rainer-doerry.de/Ahnenforschung/




Re: [HN] Emigration to U. S. New Orleans

Date: 2006/01/03 10:12:14
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

The microfilms of the passenger lists of New Orleans the have some gaps, therefore you should check the quartely list of New Orleans, there I found my Honkomp family January 1844.
Werner Honkomp

> I have been searching for about 10 years to find the emigration records of
> 3 families (we think related) the last names are Buehne, Middeke and
> Hinkamp.  They all lived together for a year in Clinton County Illinois
> near Germantown.  They were from the Ankum area. I have the Buehne family
> history in Germany and in the U.S. but I can't connect them with ship
> records.  Family stories say they came thru New Orleans sometime between
> 1838 and 1842.  When I was in Germany last year I went to the archives,
> etc. and found no records of any of these families.  Where else could the
> records be?  Where are the records from the Ships agents?  Thanks for any
> help you can give Pat Huck
> ______________________________________________

[HN] Steinberg

Date: 2006/01/03 11:27:20
From: Christina und Horst Rauschenberg <ChrAnHo(a)t-online.de>

Dann, Herr Scheele, wird es Ihnen ja sicherlich gelingen, die Geburt und die weiteren Vorfahren von Claus Hinrich Steinberg in Gnarrenburg zu finden.
Horst Rauschenberg

I think Barbara was correct. I have a Familienbuch for Gnarrenburg and it
lists a marriage for Claus Hinrich STEINBERG from Franzhorn and Maria
OERDING in Sept. 1859. Parents of Claus were Diedrich and Gesche Maria
GLAHN. Parents of Maria were Christoph and Rebecka VIEBROCK.

There is only one other STEINBERG listed, That was a Hinrich STEINBERG and
wife Margarete PRIGGE who lived in Billit. No children are listed for either
couple.

Paul Scheele

-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Christina und Horst Rauschenberg
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:41 AM
To: Hannover-L
Subject: Re: [HN] Steinberg

Good morning.
The most likely parish church would be Gnarrenburg.  The LDS have records
that may include your family:

Kirchenbuch, 1715-1852 Evangelische Kirche Kuhstedt (Kr. Bremervörde)

Kirchenbuch, 1790-1852 Evangelische Kirche Gnarrenburg (Kr. Bremervörde)

Thats wrong. The parish church is Kirchwistedt.
Greatings
Horst Rauschenberg


----- Original Message -----
From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:10 AM
Subject: [HN] Steinberg


Hello Sue,

       I haven't found the ship on which Claus Steinberg came to the U.S.
If you are interested in other information about him with pictures of the
area where he lived, you should look at this website:
   http://rycomms.com/gallery/steinberg?page=1

     Perhaps you have already seen it.  By the way, the tiny town is
listed
on the map I have as Franzenhorn near Brillet which is just north of
Gnarrenburg.

   The most likely parish church would be Gnarrenburg.  The LDS have
records
that may include your family:

Kirchenbuch, 1715-1852 Evangelische Kirche Kuhstedt (Kr. Bremervörde)

Kirchenbuch, 1790-1852 Evangelische Kirche Gnarrenburg (Kr. Bremervörde)

     Perhaps you already have all that information.  Your request was
about
the ship Claus would have been on.  I checked Castlegarden.org - there are
many Steinbergs listed there, but no Claus.

     By the way, there are 2 entries for Claus Steinberg from Brillet on
Rootsweb World Connect.

Good luck,
Barbara




on 12/31/05 11:01 PM, SngKetner(a)cs.com at SngKetner(a)cs.com wrote:

> Dear List:
> Happy New Year!
> I tried on Ancestry.com to find my great-grandfather Claus Steinberg,
> but I had no luck.  Mainly, what I am asking is how to find the records
of
> what
> ship he came over on to the U. S. from Bremen, Germany to Baltimore,
> Maryland,
> USA.  He was born in Franzhorn, Hannover, Germany in 1835.  He, and
> possibly
> one son, emigrated to the USA circa 1880 to 1885.  His wife, Maria, and
6
> of
> her children, and her sister, also born in Hannover, Germany, came over
on
> the
> ship, Oder, in 1884, landing in New York City, USA.
> Thank you to anyone who can help me.
> Regards; Sue, in Altoona, Pa. USA.
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

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Re: [HN] Gelsenkirchen

Date: 2006/01/03 11:44:02
From: Elke Schulzke <elke46(a)msn.com>

Hallo,
gibt es die Seite auch in Deutsch ?

Mit freundlichem Gruß
Elke Schulzke


From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Gelsenkirchen
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:48:56 -0700

Hello,
     The LDS church has records for Gelsenkirchen in Westfalen:

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

Do the search by clicking on "place".

Barbara



on 12/18/05 11:08 AM, Elke Schulzke at elke46(a)msn.com wrote:

> wer forscht in Gelsenkirchen ?

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[HN] list

Date: 2006/01/03 12:19:26
From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>

Is there a comparable list for Baden, please?

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks





[HN] German American internment camps

Date: 2006/01/03 13:05:12
From: William Taber <willgen(a)mac.com>

Pat,

Do a Google search for German American internment camps

http://www.google.com/search?hs=tpj&q=german+american+internment+camps

Will Taber

Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:40:21 -0600
From: "Patricia Knight" <pknight1(a)fidnet.com>
Subject: Re: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag
	43
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Message-ID: <023701c6101f$cf192500$d18efb40(a)default>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Bobbi
When and where ...were these camps that you speak of????
Thanks

Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "bobbidoll" <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:31 AM
Subject: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43








  --- On Tue 12/27, jo meyer < gutenmorgen(a)mail.com > wrote:

  Some maybe got it bad<br>and others not as much. It may have helped for
those who lived in the<br>same area to be together sharing the  pain.
However , at least it did not<br>get as bad as being sent to camps like the
japanese.


 I beg to differ.  Some German-Americans were sent to camps just as the
Japanese were.  There weren't as many, but never the less some were.  The
German-American community had asked for an apology from the US government.

 > Bobbi

Re: [HN] German American internment camps

Date: 2006/01/03 16:05:58
From: Patricia Knight <pknight1(a)fidnet.com>

Thank you, William!

I have gone to the site and read the article and apparently, Italians were
in these camps, too!

Would you know if, Mr. Heitmann has finished his book or research?

I have seen the POW camps at Jefferson Barracks.These were for captured
German soldiers.

I wonder if, anyone would know, how the government decided which German/s to
send to these camps.

My German family seemed to do pretty well , here. Of course, four of my
uncles were in the war...one on the USS Saratoga and wounded and the other
in the Battle of the Bulge and Normandy.  My grandmother fought like hell to
keep one in the states and the fourth was only 15 and she got him out...he
later joined the Marines and served when he was older.

Maybe, this was the difference...don't know ...just wondered how and where
they chose to arrest or detain these German/s and/or families.

If true,   sad , sad, sad.   I suppose much like today's worries over
homeland security and all.

Maybe, years down the road the Arabs will be demanding and apology????

Thanks again!

Pat



----- Original Message -----
From: "William Taber" <willgen(a)mac.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Cc: "Patricia Knight" <pknight1(a)fidnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:43 AM
Subject: [HN] German American internment camps


> Pat,
>
> Do a Google search for German American internment camps
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hs=tpj&q=german+american+internment+camps
>
> Will Taber
>
> >Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:40:21 -0600
> >From: "Patricia Knight" <pknight1(a)fidnet.com>
> >Subject: Re: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag
> > 43
> >To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> >Message-ID: <023701c6101f$cf192500$d18efb40(a)default>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> >Bobbi
> >When and where ...were these camps that you speak of????
> >Thanks
> >
> >Pat
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "bobbidoll" <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>
> >To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> >Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:31 AM
> >Subject: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>   --- On Tue 12/27, jo meyer < gutenmorgen(a)mail.com > wrote:
> >>
> >>   Some maybe got it bad<br>and others not as much. It may have helped
for
> >those who lived in the<br>same area to be together sharing the  pain.
> >However , at least it did not<br>get as bad as being sent to camps like
the
> >japanese.
> >>
> >>
> >>  I beg to differ.  Some German-Americans were sent to camps just as the
> >Japanese were.  There weren't as many, but never the less some were.  The
> >German-American community had asked for an apology from the US
government.
> >>
> >  > Bobbi
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Emigration

Date: 2006/01/03 16:07:36
From: Pat Huck <phck1(a)charter.net>

Regarding my searches for the Buehne, Middeke and Hinkamp families.  They are not listed on the 1840 Clinton County, Illinois census.  The first time I find evidence is when the oldest girl marries in Feb. 1842 and the father Bernard dies later that year.  It might be possible that they took their time to come to Clinton County.  They bought land but did not record it at the time of purchase.  I have searched the New Orleans passenger lists and there is a slim amount of records from that time period.  I have allowed for misspellings, but 3 families. I am also missing passenger lists for Frank Marks and Theresa Knuewe and it is about the same time as they married in St. Louis, Mo in May 1842. Thanks for your help, Pat Huck

Re: [HN] Orphanage in Düsseldorf

Date: 2006/01/03 16:29:15
From: Captruro <Captruro(a)aol.com>

 

Dear Barbara--Thank you so much for your help and suggestions!  You seem to 
come through for so many on this list and you are greatly appreciated.  A while 
ago I got a reply to my search on the list from a person who had a 
grandfather put into an orphanage at about the same time (about 1895) in Duesseldorf and 
he looked up in the City Directory for 1889 for Holstein and Liedtke (CLARA 
HOLSTEIN's parents names) and found her father CARL HOLSTEIN, journeyman mason, 
Corneliusstr. 9; and a Friedrich LIEDTKE, gardener, Linienstr. 18.  CLARA 
HOLSTEIN was born May 28, 1885, in Duesseldorf, and came to America (NYC) at 
about age 13 (1898?) via a German family who took her back with them (I have heard 
the family say it was an a bonded servant, but they treated her well).  I do 
not know how long she was in the orphanage or what happened to her family.  
 
What better mystery than Genealogy!!
 
claire berger
 
In a message dated 1/2/2006 11:20:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
raybarbara(a)comcast.net writes:

Hello Claire,
Perhaps you could contact this group of Dominican Sisters who are in
or near Düsseldorf.  The website is in German, but there is an email address
there.  They may know some English, unless you yourself can write in German!
Or maybe someone on the list who can write in German could compose a letter
for you.

http://www.dominikanerinnen-angermund.de/

I really hope this works out for you,

Barbara




on 1/1/06 5:53 PM, R&B Stewart at raybarbara(a)comcast.net wrote:

> Barbara again,
> 
> I forgot something.  I also read that Dominican Sisters had a orphanage
> in Düsseldorf.  
> I bet we could find something on that--I will try later.  Out of time now!
> 
> "A Dominican Sisters' community and 100 children were evacuated from a
> bombed orphanage at Düsseldorf in 1943 and lived here till 1947."
> 
> 
> on 1/1/06 5:41 PM, R&B Stewart at raybarbara(a)comcast.net wrote:
> 
>> Hello Claire,
>> 
>> I remember that you were looking for that orphanage some time ago!
>> Still no luck, I guess.  By doing Google searches, I read that there were
>> both a Lutheran and a Catholic orphanage (waisenhaus) in Düsseldorf.  I 
also
>> read that an orphanage in Düsseldorf was bombed in the war.
>> 
>> Did you ever write to anyone in Düsseldorf?
>> This is a page for the diocese of Essen (which, I think, would include
>> Düsseldorf):  
>> 
>> http://www.archive.nrw.de/home.asp?bta-essen
>> There is an email address there that you could use to get some information.
>> You could write to the diocese of Essen or other archives in Düsseldorf as
>> listed. 
>> 
>> By doing a Google search on "orphanage in Dusseldorf" I found a reference 
to
>> an article at this address:
>> 
>> 
http://muse.jhu.edu/cgi-bin/access.cgi?uri=/journals/catholic_historical_rev
>> iew/v088/88.2yonke.html
>> It seems to be a historical journal which you can only access through a
>> library or such. I'm not sure how much specific information it would give.
>> 
>> I wish you luck.  That is a unique search.
>> 
>> Barbara
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Question:  My grandmother (CLARA HOLSTEIN) was in an Orphanage in
>>> Duesseldorf
>>> about 1895.  I believe it was a Catholic Orphanage--where would I look for
>>> records?
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Hannover-L mailing list
>>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l





Re: [HN] list

Date: 2006/01/03 16:40:31
From: Mona <HeritageHunt(a)Sandyview.info>

Bob Doerr wrote:
Is there a comparable list for Baden, please?

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks


Bob,

John Fuller has a very extensive list of genealogy email lists:

http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail.html

You'll see that there is one that covers Baden, Hohenzollern, and Wurttemberg

Have a great day!

Mona
--
Mona Houser
HeritageHunt(a)sandyview.info
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/

[HN] Loretta - LUEHRS

Date: 2006/01/03 16:43:36
From: Mona <HeritageHunt(a)Sandyview.info>

Loretta,
I just visited your site and saw that you have Luehrs. Did any of them live in Fayette County, Illinois, and then move to Buffalo County, Nebraska? If so, I may have some data for you on those branches.

Mona
--
Mona Houser
HeritageHunt(a)sandyview.info
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/

Re: [HN] list

Date: 2006/01/03 16:56:41
From: Klaus Vahlbruch <Klaus-Vahlbruch(a)t-online.de>

Bob Doerr schrieb:
Is there a comparable list for Baden, please?

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks


*******************************************************
Hi Bob,
there is a "BaWü-List" - means Baden-Wuerttemberg-List
bawue-l(a)genealogy.net

http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/bawue-l

But this list in not bilingual.
If you can read and write german it would be usefull.

Klaus (Vahlbruch)



[HN] twelck

Date: 2006/01/03 17:39:03
From: Christina und Horst Rauschenberg <ChrAnHo(a)t-online.de>

Guten Tag.
In einem Schreiben des niederländischen Residenten in Hamburg aus dem jahre
1679 lese ich mehrmals das Wort twelck. Kann ich das übersetzen als:
welches oder was ?
Danke und freundlichen Grüße
Horst Rauschenberg

RE: [HN] Steinberg

Date: 2006/01/03 18:10:33
From: Paul Scheele <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>

Herr Rauschenberg,

The birth date for Claus Hinrich Steinberg is listed as 14 Jan 1835 in
Franzhorn. The birth date for his wife, Maria Oerding is listed as 18 Nov
1838 in Parnewinkel. The father of Claus Hinrich was Diedrich Steinberg, a
Halbhöfner, and his mother was Gesche Maria Glahn. No other ancestors of
Claus are recorded.

Paul Scheele

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
> bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Christina und Horst Rauschenberg
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 3:26 AM
> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
> Subject: [HN] Steinberg
> 
> Dann, Herr Scheele, wird es Ihnen ja sicherlich gelingen, die Geburt und
> die
> weiteren Vorfahren von Claus Hinrich Steinberg in Gnarrenburg zu finden.
> Horst Rauschenberg
> 
> I think Barbara was correct. I have a Familienbuch for Gnarrenburg and it
> lists a marriage for Claus Hinrich STEINBERG from Franzhorn and Maria
> OERDING in Sept. 1859. Parents of Claus were Diedrich and Gesche Maria
> GLAHN. Parents of Maria were Christoph and Rebecka VIEBROCK.
> 
> There is only one other STEINBERG listed, That was a Hinrich STEINBERG and
> wife Margarete PRIGGE who lived in Billit. No children are listed for
> either
> couple.
> 
> Paul Scheele
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
> > bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Christina und Horst Rauschenberg
> > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:41 AM
> > To: Hannover-L
> > Subject: Re: [HN] Steinberg
> >
> > Good morning.
> > The most likely parish church would be Gnarrenburg.  The LDS have
> records
> > that may include your family:
> >
> > Kirchenbuch, 1715-1852 Evangelische Kirche Kuhstedt (Kr. Bremervörde)
> >
> > Kirchenbuch, 1790-1852 Evangelische Kirche Gnarrenburg (Kr. Bremervörde)
> >
> > Thats wrong. The parish church is Kirchwistedt.
> > Greatings
> > Horst Rauschenberg
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> > To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:10 AM
> > Subject: [HN] Steinberg
> >
> >
> > Hello Sue,
> >
> >        I haven't found the ship on which Claus Steinberg came to the
> U.S.
> > If you are interested in other information about him with pictures of
> the
> > area where he lived, you should look at this website:
> >    http://rycomms.com/gallery/steinberg?page=1
> >
> >      Perhaps you have already seen it.  By the way, the tiny town is
> > listed
> > on the map I have as Franzenhorn near Brillet which is just north of
> > Gnarrenburg.
> >
> >    The most likely parish church would be Gnarrenburg.  The LDS have
> > records
> > that may include your family:
> >
> > Kirchenbuch, 1715-1852 Evangelische Kirche Kuhstedt (Kr. Bremervörde)
> >
> > Kirchenbuch, 1790-1852 Evangelische Kirche Gnarrenburg (Kr. Bremervörde)
> >
> >      Perhaps you already have all that information.  Your request was
> > about
> > the ship Claus would have been on.  I checked Castlegarden.org - there
> are
> > many Steinbergs listed there, but no Claus.
> >
> >      By the way, there are 2 entries for Claus Steinberg from Brillet on
> > Rootsweb World Connect.
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Barbara
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > on 12/31/05 11:01 PM, SngKetner(a)cs.com at SngKetner(a)cs.com wrote:
> >
> > > Dear List:
> > > Happy New Year!
> > > I tried on Ancestry.com to find my great-grandfather Claus Steinberg,
> > > but I had no luck.  Mainly, what I am asking is how to find the
> records
> > of
> > > what
> > > ship he came over on to the U. S. from Bremen, Germany to Baltimore,
> > > Maryland,
> > > USA.  He was born in Franzhorn, Hannover, Germany in 1835.  He, and
> > > possibly
> > > one son, emigrated to the USA circa 1880 to 1885.  His wife, Maria,
> and
> > 6
> > > of
> > > her children, and her sister, also born in Hannover, Germany, came
> over
> > on
> > > the
> > > ship, Oder, in 1884, landing in New York City, USA.
> > > Thank you to anyone who can help me.
> > > Regards; Sue, in Altoona, Pa. USA.
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Re: Groß Burgwedel

Date: 2006/01/03 18:42:16
From: Paul Scheele <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>

Can anyone on the list give me an address for the Pfarramt at Groß
Burgwedel? 

 

Paul Scheele


Re: [HN] Gatzemeyer book

Date: 2006/01/03 19:18:59
From: CLKrieter <CLKrieter(a)aol.com>

 
In a message dated 12/30/2005 12:19:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
gscout1912(a)mindspring.com writes:

Can  anyone tell me what the title of the book means:  Ahnentafeln um 1800  
Sippschaften aus Stadt and Stift Hildesheim by Gatzemeyer?

What is in  the book?  I am new to the list and have not heard of  it.

Gail



I don't have an answer to your question as I don't know the meaning of the  
word 'Sippschaften.'  (Although if you find such a book, I would be very  
interested in knowing more about its content!)  
 
I am interested in knowing whether you are researching the Gatzemeyer  name 
in the Hildesheim area.  I have been looking for Gatzemeyer  connections 
especially in the Duderstadt Kreis area (the towns of Hilkeroda and  Langenhagen.)  
 
My gggrandfather Franz Christoph Gatzemeier was born Sept. 27, 1817 in  
Hilkeroda.
 
Cindy Krieter
CLKrieter(a)aol.com

Re: [HN] list

Date: 2006/01/03 19:49:03
From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>

Danke.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Klaus Vahlbruch" <Klaus-Vahlbruch(a)t-online.de>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] list


> Bob Doerr schrieb:
> > Is there a comparable list for Baden, please?
> >
> > Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks
> >
>
> *******************************************************
> Hi Bob,
> there is a "BaWü-List" - means Baden-Wuerttemberg-List
> > bawue-l(a)genealogy.net
>
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/bawue-l
>
> But this list in not bilingual.
> If you can read and write german it would be usefull.
>
> Klaus (Vahlbruch)
>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>



Re: [HN] list

Date: 2006/01/03 19:49:04
From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>

Thank you.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mona" <HeritageHunt(a)Sandyview.info>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] list


> Bob Doerr wrote:
> > Is there a comparable list for Baden, please?
> > 
> > Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks
> > 
> 
> Bob,
> 
> John Fuller has a very extensive list of genealogy email lists:
> 
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail.html
> 
> You'll see that there is one that covers Baden, Hohenzollern, and 
> Wurttemberg
> 
> Have a great day!
> 
> Mona
> -- 
> Mona Houser
> HeritageHunt(a)sandyview.info
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 


Re: [HN] Re: Groß Burgwedel

Date: 2006/01/03 20:19:30
From: Björn Sassenberg <post(a)bjoern-sassenberg.de>

Dear Paul,

here is what I found for (Groß-)burgwedel:

St.-Petri Gemeinde Burgwedel
Küstergang 2
30938 Burgwedel
Tel.: +49 (51 39) 60 11
Fax: +49 (51 39) 89 14 94
gemeindebuero(a)st-petri-burgwedel.de
http://www.st-petri-burgwedel.de/

With kindly regards from Langenhagen,

Björn



----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Scheele" <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:42 PM
Subject: [HN] Re: Groß Burgwedel


Can anyone on the list give me an address for the Pfarramt at Groß
Burgwedel?



Paul Scheele

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Gatzemeyer

Date: 2006/01/03 21:35:44
From: Reinhard.Freytag(a)t-online.de <Reinhard.Freytag(a)t-online.de>

Hi, Gail,
Hallo Cindy,

a "Sippschaft"  (Sometimes  "slang") is nothing more than a
large family, meaning parents, first-second-third  great
parantes, childrin, cousins first grade, second grade an so
on.

By the way, there is another "Gatzemeyer-Book", including
family trees coming from the Duderstadt-Area.

Gatzemeyer:
As I saved a lot of G. in my data base, specially around
Duderstadt, I am interested in your Gatzemeyers.
May be, I am able to  complete your datas.
Pls. tell me your Gatzemeyers (Cindy natürlich in Deutsch)
Name
town
time

In der Genealogie ist ein Schritt rückwärts ein Schritt
vorwärts

Schöne Grüsse aus unserer
Universitätsstadt Göttingen
Reinhard J. Freytag


-----Original Message-----
> Date: Tue,  3 Jan 2006 19:18:43 +0100
> Subject: Re: [HN] Gatzemeyer book
> From: CLKrieter(a)aol.com
> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net

> 
> In a message dated 12/30/2005 12:19:48 PM Pacific Standard
Time,
> gscout1912(a)mindspring.com writes:
> 
> Can  anyone tell me what the title of the book means:
 Ahnentafeln um
> 1800 Sippschaften aus Stadt and Stift Hildesheim by
Gatzemeyer?
> 
> What is in  the book?  I am new to the list and have not
heard of  it.
> 
> Gail
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have an answer to your question as I don't know
the meaning of
> the word 'Sippschaften.'  (Although if you find such a
book, I would
> be very interested in knowing more about its content!)
> 
> I am interested in knowing whether you are researching the
Gatzemeyer 
> name in the Hildesheim area.  I have been looking for
Gatzemeyer 
> connections especially in the Duderstadt Kreis area (the
towns of
> Hilkeroda and  Langenhagen.) 
> My gggrandfather Franz Christoph Gatzemeier was born Sept.
27, 1817 in
> Hilkeroda.
> 
> Cindy Krieter
> CLKrieter(a)aol.com
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 




Re: [HN] Gatzemeyer book

Date: 2006/01/03 21:50:11
From: Wilfried . Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

<CLKrieter(a)aol.com> schrieb:
>  
> In a message dated 12/30/2005 12:19:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
> gscout1912(a)mindspring.com writes:
> 
> Can  anyone tell me what the title of the book means:  Ahnentafeln um 1800  
> Sippschaften aus Stadt and Stift Hildesheim by Gatzemeyer?
> 
> What is in  the book?  I am new to the list and have not heard of  it.
> 
> Gail
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have an answer to your question as I don't know the meaning of the  
> word 'Sippschaften.'  (Although if you find such a book, I would be very  
> interested in knowing more about its content!)  
>  
> I am interested in knowing whether you are researching the Gatzemeyer  name 
> in the Hildesheim area.  I have been looking for Gatzemeyer  connections 
> especially in the Duderstadt Kreis area (the towns of Hilkeroda and  Langenhagen.)  
>  
> My gggrandfather Franz Christoph Gatzemeier was born Sept. 27, 1817 in  
> Hilkeroda.
>  
> Cindy Krieter
> CLKrieter(a)aol.com
>

Hello Gail, hello Cindy,

the Gatzemeyer books (there are two) describe abt. 100 familys in the Hildesheim area. Dr. Friedrich Gatzemeyer was the author in 1935-1942. The name Gatzemeyer itself is there mentioned only one time: Konrad Jakob Gatzemeyer, teacher 1839 in Hahndorf, later in Langenhagen (Eichsfeld) and Seulingen, born at Langenhagen 29.7.1814, died at Himmelsthür (Hildesheim) 30.3.1905, married at Fuhrbach 28.8.1839 Marie Josefe Koch.

Regards and a Happy New Year
Wilfried (Petersen)


Re: [HN] Gelsenkirchen

Date: 2006/01/03 22:50:25
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"Elke Schulzke" <elke46(a)msn.com> schrieb:
> Hallo,
> gibt es die Seite auch in Deutsch ?
> 
> Mit freundlichem Gruß
> Elke Schulzke
> 
>> http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
>>

Hallo Frau Schultzke,
die Sprache kann normalerweise auf der 1.angezeig-ten Seite beim einloggen eingestellt werden. ich würde also erstmal nur www.familysearch.org aufrufen und dann versuchen weiterzukommen.
mit bestem Gruß               Hans Peter Albers

RE: [HN] Re: Groß Burgwedel

Date: 2006/01/04 00:05:11
From: Paul Scheele <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>

Dear Björn,

Many thanks.

Herzliche Grüße von Boulder, Colorado
Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net [mailto:hannover-l-
> bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Björn Sassenberg
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 12:19 PM
> To: Hannover-L
> Subject: Re: [HN] Re: Groß Burgwedel
> 
> Dear Paul,
> 
> here is what I found for (Groß-)burgwedel:
> 
> St.-Petri Gemeinde Burgwedel
> Küstergang 2
> 30938 Burgwedel
> Tel.: +49 (51 39) 60 11
> Fax: +49 (51 39) 89 14 94
> gemeindebuero(a)st-petri-burgwedel.de
> http://www.st-petri-burgwedel.de/
> 
> With kindly regards from Langenhagen,
> 
> Björn
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Scheele" <pfsco1(a)comcast.net>
> To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:42 PM
> Subject: [HN] Re: Groß Burgwedel
> 
> 
> Can anyone on the list give me an address for the Pfarramt at Groß
> Burgwedel?
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Scheele
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Gatzemeyer book

Date: 2006/01/04 00:18:38
From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>

For about 100 families, Gatzemeyer gives very substantial ancestral data in
some detail. It is not easy to work with, for in some cases it goes a long
way between paragraph breaks.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <CLKrieter(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] Gatzemeyer book


>
> In a message dated 12/30/2005 12:19:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> gscout1912(a)mindspring.com writes:
>
> Can  anyone tell me what the title of the book means:  Ahnentafeln um 1800
> Sippschaften aus Stadt and Stift Hildesheim by Gatzemeyer?
>
> What is in  the book?  I am new to the list and have not heard of  it.
>
> Gail
>
>
>
> I don't have an answer to your question as I don't know the meaning of the
> word 'Sippschaften.'  (Although if you find such a book, I would be very
> interested in knowing more about its content!)
>
> I am interested in knowing whether you are researching the Gatzemeyer
name
> in the Hildesheim area.  I have been looking for Gatzemeyer  connections
> especially in the Duderstadt Kreis area (the towns of Hilkeroda and
Langenhagen.)
>
> My gggrandfather Franz Christoph Gatzemeier was born Sept. 27, 1817 in
> Hilkeroda.
>
> Cindy Krieter
> CLKrieter(a)aol.com
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>



Re: [HN] Gatzemeyer book

Date: 2006/01/04 00:26:24
From: CLKrieter <CLKrieter(a)aol.com>

 
 
Wilfried, 
Vielen Dank!  Do you know whether Dr. Gatzemeyer's books mention  the KRIETER 
family?  I've traced the Krieters back to the early 1700s,  mostly in 
Brochthausen.  
 
Happy New Year!
Cindy Krieter
_CLKrieter(a)aol.com_ (mailto:CLKrieter(a)aol.com) 

 
In a message dated 1/3/2006 12:51:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de writes:

the  Gatzemeyer books (there are two) describe abt. 100 familys in the 
Hildesheim  area. 

Regards and a Happy New Year
Wilfried  (Petersen)




Re: [HN] Gatzemeyer book

Date: 2006/01/04 00:28:27
From: svcygnus <svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com>

Google translates "Sippschaften" as "kinships".
Don Roddy


----- Message from CLKrieter(a)aol.com ---------
    Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:18:43 EST
    From: CLKrieter(a)aol.com
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
 Subject: Re: [HN] Gatzemeyer book
      To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net






I don't have an answer to your question as I don't know the meaning of the
word 'Sippschaften.'  (Although if you find such a book, I would be very
interested in knowing more about its content!)



[HN] RE: Emigration (Pat Huck)

Date: 2006/01/04 00:30:03
From: Art Dohrman <art.dohrman(a)comcast.net>

Pat, 
Can you get death certificates on the individuals concerned?  My immigrant
ancestors' death certificates (issued by New York City) have a space for
"How long in the United States, if of foreign birth" - this has helped
narrow down the year of arrival in a couple of cases for me.  Your
jurisdiction may or may not have this data field, but might be worth a try.

Art Dohrman

**************************************************
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:57:15 -0600
From: "Pat Huck" <phck1(a)charter.net>
Subject: [HN] Emigration
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Message-ID: <002201c61075$fcfa06a0$9af3b618(a)phck1>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Regarding my searches for the Buehne, Middeke and Hinkamp families.  They
are not listed on the 1840 Clinton County, Illinois census.  The first time
I find evidence is when the oldest girl marries in Feb. 1842 and the father
Bernard dies later that year.  It might be possible that they took their
time to come to Clinton County.  They bought land but did not record it at
the time of purchase.  I have searched the New Orleans passenger lists and
there is a slim amount of records from that time period.  I have allowed for
misspellings, but 3 families. I am also missing passenger lists for Frank
Marks and Theresa Knuewe and it is about the same time as they married in
St. Louis, Mo in May 1842. Thanks for your help, Pat Huck
	



Re: [HN] Gatzemeyer

Date: 2006/01/04 00:48:18
From: CLKrieter <CLKrieter(a)aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/3/2006 12:36:29 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
Reinhard.Freytag(a)t-online.de writes:

Gatzemeyer:
As I saved a lot of G. in my data base, specially  around
Duderstadt, I am interested in your Gatzemeyers.
May be, I am  able to  complete your datas.
Pls. tell me your Gatzemeyers (Cindy  natürlich in Deutsch)
Name
town
time



Reinhard:
Thank you for the information!  I will try my best auf Deutsch, please  
forgive the errors...
 
Anna Frances Gatzemeier
geb. 30 Okt. 1863 Hilkeroda
geheiratet zu:  Johann Kaspar Krieter, geb 30 Sept. 1856,  Langenhagen
 
Vater:  Franz Christoph Gatzemeier, geb  27 Sept. 1817,  Hilkeroda
Mutter:  Fransizka Maria Nolte, geb  01 Feb. 1844,  Hilkeroda  (Sie ist die 
zweite Frau von Franz Christoph.)
 
Geschwister von Franz Christoph Gatzemeier:
 
Johannes Friederich, geb: 26 Juni 1806, Hilkeroda
Franz Joseph, geb: 13 Juli 1809
Georg, geb. 1813, Hilkeroda
Maria Elizabeth, geb. 02 Jan 1815
Maria Anna, geb. 04 Feb 1820
Franziska, geb. 4 Feb 1829
 
Vater von Franz Christoph Gatzemeier:
Johann Gatzemeier, geb. ungefär 1777, Langenhagen
Mutter von Franz Christoph Gatzemeier:
Maria Anna Jacob, geb. ungefär 1786
 
Vater von Fransizka Maria Nolte: ?  (unehelig geburt)
Mutter von Fransizka Maria Nolte:
Fransizka Maria Nolte, geb 26 Mai 1815, Hilkeroda
 
Alles Gute im Neuen Jahr!
Cindy Krieter
CLKrieter(a)aol.com
 
 
 

RE: [HN] RE: Emigration (Pat Huck) Land Records

Date: 2006/01/04 03:58:28
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Pat,

I tried Bureau Land Management Land Records.

http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/

Site includes the following records. Online images are available at site as well.

Name, Location, Date, Land Office, Doc. Nr., Serial Number

HINKAMP, HENRICK IL  Clinton  8/1/1844  Edwardsville  21468  IL2350__.035
HINKAMP, HENRY  IL   Clinton  1/1/1840  Edwardsville  20399  IL2300__.002
HINKAMP, HENRY  IL   Clinton  1/1/1840  Edwardsville  21060  IL2310__.147

I did not search other names. Is possible that records could be found for them.

Barbie Lew












Guten Tag,
Michael Ostrowski geb. 09.11.1852

Wer forscht mit Ostrowski ?

Mit freundlichem Gruß
Schulzke


Guten Tag,
Michael Ostrowski geb. 09.11.1852

Wer forscht mit Ostrowski ?

Mit freundlichem Gruß
Schulzke







From: "Art Dohrman" <art.dohrman(a)comcast.net>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] RE: Emigration (Pat Huck)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 17:29:59 -0600

Pat,
Can you get death certificates on the individuals concerned?  My immigrant
ancestors' death certificates (issued by New York City) have a space for
"How long in the United States, if of foreign birth" - this has helped
narrow down the year of arrival in a couple of cases for me.  Your
jurisdiction may or may not have this data field, but might be worth a try.

Art Dohrman

**************************************************
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:57:15 -0600
From: "Pat Huck" <phck1(a)charter.net>
Subject: [HN] Emigration
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Message-ID: <002201c61075$fcfa06a0$9af3b618(a)phck1>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Regarding my searches for the Buehne, Middeke and Hinkamp families.  They
are not listed on the 1840 Clinton County, Illinois census.  The first time
I find evidence is when the oldest girl marries in Feb. 1842 and the father
Bernard dies later that year.  It might be possible that they took their
time to come to Clinton County.  They bought land but did not record it at
the time of purchase.  I have searched the New Orleans passenger lists and
there is a slim amount of records from that time period. I have allowed for
misspellings, but 3 families. I am also missing passenger lists for Frank
Marks and Theresa Knuewe and it is about the same time as they married in
St. Louis, Mo in May 1842. Thanks for your help, Pat Huck



______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


[HN] List for Wuerttemberg and elsewhere

Date: 2006/01/04 04:19:20
From: Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>

Bob:  Others have already answered your question about a Baden list.  For you and others who may wish to look farther afield the following will give you the list of all (I think) the mailing lists in Germany:
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo

Offen - open - means anyone can join for free;  Geschlossen - closed - means you must pay for membership.  Each one specifies whether they are bilingual or not.  Most are in German.  Hope this helps everyone.   Jane

Jane Swan
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

Re: [HN] Gelsenkirchen

Date: 2006/01/04 04:29:25
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Hallo,

Dieses die deutsche Familie Suchweb site: http://www.kirche-jesu-christi.org

Auserwählt: Familienforschung

Mag Informationen einschließen, wie man englische Datenbanken benutzt.

Barbie-Lew





From: 320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Gelsenkirchen
Date: 03 Jan 2006 21:45 GMT

"Elke Schulzke" <elke46(a)msn.com> schrieb:
> Hallo,
> gibt es die Seite auch in Deutsch ?
>
> Mit freundlichem Gruß
> Elke Schulzke
>
>> http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
>>

Hallo Frau Schultzke,
die Sprache kann normalerweise auf der 1.angezeig-ten Seite beim einloggen eingestellt werden. ich würde also erstmal nur www.familysearch.org aufrufen und dann versuchen weiterzukommen.
mit bestem Gruß               Hans Peter Albers
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


Re: [HN] Gatzemeyer book

Date: 2006/01/04 08:49:41
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

My translator shows "Clans"
Werner

> Google translates "Sippschaften" as "kinships".
> Don Roddy


> ----- Message from CLKrieter(a)aol.com ---------
>      Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:18:43 EST
>      From: CLKrieter(a)aol.com
> Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>   Subject: Re: [HN] Gatzemeyer book
>        To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.ne
>>
>> I don't have an answer to your question as I don't know the meaning of
>> the
>> word 'Sippschaften.'  (Although if you find such a book, I would be very
>> interested in knowing more about its content!)
>>
>>


[HN] Bitte um Hilfe

Date: 2006/01/04 10:04:25
From: Heinz Ebenhög <Heinz.Ebenhoeg(a)t-online.de>

Hallo meine Kollegen in NS,

Ich suche den Vorfahr meiner amerikanischen e-mail-Partnerin, die mir bei meiner eigenen Forschung ebenfalls schon viel geholfen hat.

Gesucht wird der Herkunftsort von Gottlieb Hanf. Er ist am 25.11.1844 im "Kingdom Hannover" geboren. Leider wissen wir nicht den exakten Geburtsort.

Die Eltern sind Nicolaus Hanf und dessen Frau Elisabeth, geb. Lippmann.

Seht ihr eine Möglichkeit die Herkunft dieses USA-Auswanderers zu finden?

Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus der Kurpfalz
Heinz



Re: [HN] twelck

Date: 2006/01/04 11:17:05
From: rfleumer <hmt.rudolf(a)net.hcc.nl>

Horst , twelck ist alt hollaendisch fuer das welche oder welches.
Gruss Rudolf

----- Original Message ----- From: "Christina und Horst Rauschenberg" <ChrAnHo(a)t-online.de>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:37 PM
Subject: [HN] twelck


Guten Tag.
In einem Schreiben des niederländischen Residenten in Hamburg aus dem jahre
1679 lese ich mehrmals das Wort twelck. Kann ich das übersetzen als:
welches oder was ?
Danke und freundlichen Grüße
Horst Rauschenberg
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l





Re: [HN] twelck

Date: 2006/01/04 11:38:27
From: Christina und Horst Rauschenberg <ChrAnHo(a)t-online.de>



Guten Morgen, Rudolf
und herzlichen Dank für die Erklärung.
Freundliche Grüße
Horst Rauschenberg

----- Original Message ----- From: "rfleumer" <hmt.rudolf(a)net.hcc.nl>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] twelck


Horst , twelck ist alt hollaendisch fuer das welche oder welches.
Gruss Rudolf

----- Original Message ----- From: "Christina und Horst Rauschenberg" <ChrAnHo(a)t-online.de>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:37 PM
Subject: [HN] twelck


Guten Tag.
In einem Schreiben des niederländischen Residenten in Hamburg aus dem
jahre
1679 lese ich mehrmals das Wort twelck. Kann ich das übersetzen als:
welches oder was ?
Danke und freundlichen Grüße
Horst Rauschenberg
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l




______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



Re: [HN] Gatzemeyer book

Date: 2006/01/04 13:33:20
From: Wilfried . Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

<CLKrieter(a)aol.com> schrieb:
>  
>  
> Wilfried, 
> Vielen Dank!  Do you know whether Dr. Gatzemeyer's books mention  the KRIETER 
> family?  I've traced the Krieters back to the early 1700s,  mostly in 
> Brochthausen.  
>  

Hello Cindy,

sorry, there are no KRIETER or similar in the two Gatzemeyer books.

Regards
Wilfried (Petersen)


[HN] Re: Request: web sites of German churches

Date: 2006/01/04 20:30:04
From: Björn Sassenberg <post(a)bjoern-sassenberg.de>

Dear Ron,

thank you for your request and your New Year's greetings.

This is quite a lot what you are searching for! Please understand that I cannot give you every single address you requested. I answered the last e-mail because I'm living next to the village of Großburgwedel.

But I can give you some hints where to find the other congregations. I think you are searching in Ostfriesland (Jever is the place I know). You have to know that evangelic churches are organized in so called "Landeskirchen" followed by "Kreiskirchen" (counties), then "Sprengel" and at last the congregations itself.

Catholic churches are organized in the same way with other names. (bishoprics, dioceses, etc.)

A map of all evangelic "Landekirchen" you find here: http://www.ekd.de/english/churchmap.html

The church of Oldenburg (Jever) here: http://www.ev-kirche-oldenburg.com/

Jever is here:
www.ev-kirche-oldenburg.com/kirche_struktur/themen/gemeinden_kreise/gemeinden_a_z/ijklm.htm

For chatholic churches start here: http://www.katholisch.de/197.htm

So you have to break down from the main web page to several following web pages. If you can't find a congregation you are also able to ask the ""Landes- or Kreiskirche" for addresses. Else you have google. Try following words:

"Kirchengemeinde" or "Pfarramt" or "Pfarrbüro"

With a little luck you also find homepages of some congregations.

I hope this helps a little bit.

Kindly regards from Langenhagen, Germany,

Björn


----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Bronemann
To: post(a)bjoern-sassenberg.de
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 11:54 PM
Subject: Request: web sites of German churches


Hello Björn!
New Year's greetings from Des Moines, Iowa, the heartland of the USA.
I saw that you assisted another researcher on Hannover-L in finding information regarding a church. I would like to request from you the addresses for the web sites of churches for the following locations: Friedeburg, Marx, Reepsholt, Abichafe, Horsten, Etzel, Jever, Strackholt, Lopsum, Wiesede, Hesel, Dykhausen (Goedens), Vellage, Stapelmoor, Bargenstedt, Meldorf, and Mannsfeldt, Germany. Others not shown on mapblast: Eibenhausen, Nottens, Klein Ismus and Ismus, Germany.
Perhaps there is a way that I can access the above information by my own efforts?
Thank you for your assistance. Best wishes for a happy new year!
Ron Bronemann

Re: [HN] Bremer

Date: 2006/01/04 21:39:02
From: Wilfried . Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"Christina und Horst Rauschenberg" <ChrAnHo(a)t-online.de> schrieb:
> Guten Tag.
> Ich habe folgende Daten:
> 
> 1) Cord Bremer, ehemals im Amte Rotenburg bei Bremen erbgesessen
> oo um 1580 Mette Twivel (Zweyffel),
> 
> 2) Johann(es) Bremer, * 1587, + Kirchweyhe 16.10.1656, Kammerdiener bei 
> herzog Philipp Sigismund von Braunschweig-Lüneburg, Bischof von Verden und 
> Osnabrück; seit 1618 Zollverwalter in Dreye, kaufte seit 1620 verschiedene 
> Ländereien in Kirchweyhe, baute dort ein Haus, das als freies Gut erklärt 
> wurde
> oo I. um 1613 Mette /Mechtild von Bremen, + 9.2.1619
> Kind dieser Ehe:
> Anna Magdalena Bremer, * Dreye um 1614, + Stockholm 1689, oo (vor 1631) 
> Caspar Stolting
> 
> oo II. 1620 Catharina Klencke, * um 1597, + Kirchweyhe 20.2.1657, Tochter 
> von Claus Klencke in Hoya bzw. Nienburg, 1583 Obristleutnant in Ungarn, und 
> der Elisabeth Kehr
> Kind dieser Ehe  siehe 3)
> 
> 3) Philipp Sigismund Bremer, * Dreye 26.3.1621, + zwischen 1673 und 1678, 
> Verwalter und Pächter des fürstlichen Vorwerks Erichshof bis 1660, kaufte 
> seit 1649 Ländereien in Brinkum, dort erbgesessen
> oo Syke 14.9.1646 Catharina Elisabeth Meyer, * Stolzenau, + Brinkum 
> 14.10.1701, Tochter von Hinrich Meyer, Amtsschreiber in Stolzenau, seit 1632 
> Amtmann in Syke
> Kinder:
> a) Claus Ernst Bremer, * Brinkum 27.1.1650, + (29.7.) 1693 in der Schlacht 
> bei Landen in Brabant, 1674 Cornett, 1675 Leutnant, 1687 Rittmeister, 
> zuletzt Major, Hausbesitzer in Brinkum, oo 12.1.1675 Maria Elisabeth 
> Langehenning, * Langenhagen 15.8.1640, + Brinkum 7.2.1715, Witwe von 
> Leutnant Stücken, Tochter des Rittmeisters Jürgen Langehenning und der Anna 
> König
> b) Margareta Hedwig Bremer, * 7.2.1652, + 10.9.1729, oo Brinkum 6.6.1671 
> Diedrich Hermann Müller
> c) Christian Friedrich Bremer, ~ Brinkum 20.2.1668, + Neumark/Polen 
> 18.3.1708 als schwedischer Hauptmann, oo Brinkum 28.4.1700 Elisabeth 
> Stolting
> 
> Das sind drei Kinder. Im Erbregister 1678 steht aber bei Philip Sigismund 
> Bremers Seel. Wittibe:
> Hat noch von ihren eigenen Kindern 6 auszusteuern dessen ist aber noch kein 
> gewisses promittiret.
> 
> Für Angaben bezüglich der weiteren Kinder des Philipp Sigismund Bremer bin 
> ich sehr dankbar.


Guten Abend Herr Rauschenberg,

leider kann ich Ihnen Ihre Frage nicht beantworten. Aber ich habe den Johannes BREMER ebenfalls in meiner Ahnenliste. Allerdings läuft meine Filiation dann über die Tochter Anna Magdalena aus 1. Ehe.

Die Veröffentlichung von W. Büsing: Sippenverflechtung niedersächsischer Amtmänner, Offiziere und Pastoren aus den Familien BREMER, MÜLLER, PFRETZSCHNER, ROTH und STOLTING ist Ihnen ja wohl auch bekannt. Sollten Sie noch darüber hinausgehende Daten zur Familie BREMER haben, wäre ich für Mitteilung sehr dankbar.

Für den "Rest" des neuen Jahres noch alles Gute und freundliche Grüße,
Wilfried Petersen


Re: [HN] Re: Request: web sites of German churches

Date: 2006/01/05 01:42:34
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Ron,
      I'd like to make a suggestion before you write all those letters!
There are LDS films for nearly all of the places you listed, except for
Friedeburg, Lopsum (very tiny town) and Mannsfeldt (I don't find anywhere
-wrong spelling?).  Abickhafe is so small - it probably is included with
Reepsholt.  The records are somewhat incomplete, but may be worth your while
to look at.  The only Meldorf I find in the index of my German atlas is in
Schleswig-Holstein. I don't find a listing for Wiesede in the LDS films, but
Wiesdermoor may be the one.

     You can check these out on the LDS site - go to Place:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

     Eibenhausen is just north of Friedeburg  - very small town.
Nöttens is a tiny town southwest of Wittmund.  I found those two towns on
Mapquest.com and then I could see them on my map.  There is no listing for
Ismus--but in the same area southwest of Wittmund my map show a Groß Isums
(different spelling than you have) - also a very small town.

Have fun,
Barbara




on 1/4/06 12:29 PM, Björn Sassenberg at post(a)bjoern-sassenberg.de wrote:

> Dear Ron,
> 
> thank you for your request and your New Year's greetings.
> 
> This is quite a lot what you are searching for! Please understand that I
> cannot give you every
> single address you requested. I answered the last e-mail because I'm living
> next to the village of
> Großburgwedel.
> 
> But I can give you some hints where to find the other congregations. I think
> you are searching in
> Ostfriesland (Jever is the place I know). You have to know that evangelic
> churches are organized in
> so called "Landeskirchen" followed by "Kreiskirchen" (counties), then
> "Sprengel" and at last the
> congregations itself.
> 
> Catholic churches are organized in the same way with other names. (bishoprics,
> dioceses, etc.)
> 
> A map of all evangelic "Landekirchen" you find here:
> http://www.ekd.de/english/churchmap.html
> 
> The church of Oldenburg (Jever) here: http://www.ev-kirche-oldenburg.com/
> 
> Jever is here:
> www.ev-kirche-oldenburg.com/kirche_struktur/themen/gemeinden_kreise/gemeinden_
> a_z/ijklm.htm
> 
> For chatholic churches start here: http://www.katholisch.de/197.htm
> 
> So you have to break down from the main web page to several following web
> pages. If you can't find a
> congregation you are also able to ask the ""Landes- or Kreiskirche" for
> addresses. Else you have
> google. Try following words:
> 
> "Kirchengemeinde" or "Pfarramt" or "Pfarrbüro"
> 
> With a little luck you also find homepages of some congregations.
> 
> I hope this helps a little bit.
> 
> Kindly regards from Langenhagen, Germany,
> 
> Björn
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Bronemann
> To: post(a)bjoern-sassenberg.de
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 11:54 PM
> Subject: Request: web sites of German churches
> 
> 
> Hello Björn!
> New Year's greetings from Des Moines, Iowa, the heartland of the USA.
> I saw that you assisted another researcher on Hannover-L in finding
> information regarding a church.
> I would like to request from you the addresses for the web sites of  churches
> for the following
> locations: Friedeburg, Marx, Reepsholt, Abichafe, Horsten, Etzel, Jever,
> Strackholt, Lopsum,
> Wiesede, Hesel, Dykhausen (Goedens), Vellage, Stapelmoor, Bargenstedt,
> Meldorf, and Mannsfeldt,
> Germany.   Others not shown on mapblast:  Eibenhausen, Nottens, Klein Ismus
> and Ismus, Germany.
> Perhaps there is a way that I can access the above information by my own
> efforts?
> Thank you for your assistance. Best wishes for a happy new year!
> Ron Bronemann 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


RE: [HN] Emigration to U. S.

Date: 2006/01/05 09:33:34
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear List,
Lieb List,

This is link to Texas Seaport Museum which includes Galveston Immigrant Database.

Dieses ist Link zum Texas Seehafen-Museum, das Galveston Immigrant-Datenbank einschließt.

http://www.tsm-elissa.org/immigration-main.htm

BarbieLew


From: "J b" <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: RE: [HN] Emigration to U. S.
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:35:29 -0800

Not to cast a gloomy spell here but you may never find them. Your chances realistically for that time period are probably 50/50 (60/40?) at best. New Orleans port arrivals, like every other port, are not without omissions and gaps and lost ledgers. It is often a more matter of luck than anything else in the end. Your chances of "connecting" always improve with time (with more recent arrivals). There is not a plentitude of indexes for the period you cited unfortunately. I assume you have confirmed their presence stateside via the 1840 or 1850 census, correct? Also try ALL family members who may have 'jumped the pond' in the 1900 + 1910 censuses (assuming some lived that long). Those censuses spell out this kind of information in greater detail!

You may to expand your searches once you've hit the wall. Perhaps the family (or some members of it) came in through a different embarkation point than family lore suggests. Or via an indirect route, like England. In the end you may have to try arrival ports like New York, Boston, Baltimore, Philadelphia, etc. (as applicable). You could also attempt to locate early family members' naturalization papers on the US side, which might produce additional clues. These records can also be frustrating to locate, but the search is invariably worth it when they (any) are uncovered. Also check local histories of the area(s) they first settled in for immigration patterns or bio sketches. Suffice to say, be prepared to dive deep and dive often. I've been at this game longer than I care to remember (started in my teens), and I have YET to find a some of them. But don't quit trying!

Jb

PS. Try to remember to NOTE everything you search (or have searched) along these lines, regardless of results. Nothing like going over the same old ground time and again, only to ultimately realize you've been there before.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Huck" <phck1(a)charter.net>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:47 PM
Subject: [HN] Emigration to U. S.

I have been searching for about 10 years to find the emigration records of 3 families (we think related) the last names are Buehne, Middeke and Hinkamp. They all lived together for a year in Clinton County Illinois near Germantown. They were from the Ankum area. I have the Buehne family history in Germany and in the U.S. but I can't connect them with ship records. Family stories say they came thru New Orleans sometime between 1838 and 1842. When I was in Germany last year I went to the archives, etc. and found no records of any of these families. Where else could the records be? Where are the records from the Ships agents? Thanks for any help you can give Pat Huck

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Re: [HN] Bitte um Hilfe

Date: 2006/01/06 05:30:42
From: Gary Stoltman <stopan(a)optonline.net>

Hallo Heinz:

Cyg Nicholaus Hanf geboren 1836 - arrive New York City 11.19.1853. From Hesse. Leider hat von Le Havre - keinen Aufzeichnungen verlassen. Schiff wurde 'Empie State.'

Gary Stoltman
Mercerville, NJ

----- Original Message ----- From: "Heinz Ebenhög" <Heinz.Ebenhoeg(a)t-online.de>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 4:03 AM
Subject: [HN] Bitte um Hilfe


Hallo meine Kollegen in NS,

Ich suche den Vorfahr meiner amerikanischen e-mail-Partnerin, die mir bei meiner eigenen Forschung ebenfalls schon viel geholfen hat.

Gesucht wird der Herkunftsort von Gottlieb Hanf. Er ist am 25.11.1844 im "Kingdom Hannover" geboren. Leider wissen wir nicht den exakten Geburtsort.

Die Eltern sind Nicolaus Hanf und dessen Frau Elisabeth, geb. Lippmann.

Seht ihr eine Möglichkeit die Herkunft dieses USA-Auswanderers zu finden?

Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus der Kurpfalz
Heinz


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[HN] Nicholaus Hanf from Hesse

Date: 2006/01/06 09:41:07
From: Heinz Ebenhög <Heinz.Ebenhoeg(a)t-online.de>

Hi Gary,

Thank you very much for your trial to help he. This was a wrong Nikolaus Hanf.

I know a Georg Nikolaus Hanf. His occupation was joiner. He was born on 5.12.1835 in Viernheim, former county Hessen-Darmstadt. He is a relativ to my own family.

Sorry, I was searching for a Gottlieb Hanf, coming from "Kingdom Hannover"

But it was interesting, that I got the 1. answer to my question from USA. thank you.

Have a good time
Heinz
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Bell-Rose

Date: 2006/01/06 17:06:17
From: Christina und Horst Rauschenberg <ChrAnHo(a)t-online.de>

Guten Tag.
Als Todesursache beziehungsweise Krankheit sind mir die Begriffe Brand und
Rose bekannt. Aber was ist als Todesursache "Brand von der Bell-Rose"?
Vielen Dank und freundliche Grüße
Horst Rauschenberg


RE: [HN] Nicholaus Hanf from Hesse

Date: 2006/01/07 16:14:03
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Heinz,

Castlegarden. Org

Gottl. Hanf
Occupation Goldsmith
Age 19
Sex M
Literacy U
Arrived 21 Mar 1859
Origin Germany
Port Hamburg & Southampton
Last Residence Karpfenhart
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Borussia
Passage Unknown


Gottl. Hanf
Besetzung Goldschmied
Alter 19
Bildungsgrad U
Des Geschlecht-M Kam
21.3.1859
Deutschland
Port hamburg &Southampton
Letzter Wohnsitz Karpfenhart
Bestimmungsort USA
Plan-Unbekanntes
Schiff Borussia
Durchgang Unbekanntes



----------------------------------------------------------
SURNAME: HANF
Given Name: Gottlieb
Country:
State: Germany
Date Submitted:2004

Notes:
Nicholaus Hanf of Germany married Elizabeth Lipman.
Their son Gottlieb Hanf (b1844) who came to United States in 1860.

Gottlieb Hanf married Catherine Green and settled in Baltimore Maryland. Thier children were Mary, William, Matilda, Katherine, Charles, Frederick, Anna.

Database #: 22119
Contact:  lostnfog(a)aol.com/lostnfog(a)netzero.com



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FAMILIENNAME: HANF
Name: Gottlieb
Land:  Deutschland
Datum Reichte Ein: 2004
Anmerkungen: Nicholaus Hanf von Deutschland verbundenem Elizabeth Lipman. Ihr Sohn Gottlieb Hanf (b1844) der nach Vereinigte Staaten 1860 kam.

Gottlieb Hanf verheiratetes Catherine Grün und vereinbart in Baltimore Maryland. Thier Kinder waren Mary, William, Matilda, Katherine, Charles, Frederick, Anna. Datenbank #: Kontakt 22119:

-------------------------------------------------
Barbie-Lew


From: Heinz Ebenhög <Heinz.Ebenhoeg(a)t-online.de>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] Nicholaus Hanf from Hesse
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 09:40:39 +0100

Hi Gary,

Thank you very much for your trial to help he. This was a wrong Nikolaus Hanf.

I know a Georg Nikolaus Hanf. His occupation was joiner. He was born on 5.12.1835 in Viernheim, former county Hessen-Darmstadt. He is a relativ to my own family.

Sorry, I was searching for a Gottlieb Hanf, coming from "Kingdom Hannover"

But it was interesting, that I got the 1. answer to my question from USA. thank you.

Have a good time
Heinz
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

_________________________________________________________________
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[HN] Werner Wittig

Date: 2006/01/07 20:37:57
From: Georg Friederici <georgfriederici(a)manquehue.net>

Suche Werner Wittig, in welcher Liste liest er mit ???

HAUSNER - FORSCHUNG 
******************************** 
Hallo Werner Wittig, 
ganz toll, recht herzlichen Dank. Ja, das muss ganz einfach eine Familie gewesen sein. Nun fehlt jetzt ein "Baustein", denn auch meine Haussner Vorfahren beginnen so um 1620, und zwar die in getrenntem mail aufgeführten (kommt ständig zurück). Jetzt ist also die grosse Frage, ob es wohl noch möglich sein könnte, die Eltern von Deinem Peter und meinem Michael festzustellen ???
Hast Du eine Idee, was man da machen könnte, oder ist das einfach ein "absoluter Totpunkt" ?
Was mich sehr interessieren würde, das sind die einzelnen Hausner Kinder in jeder Generation. Hast Du diese Information ?
Hinweis: Die Gesellschaft für Familienforschung in Franken hat 1999 ein erstes "Familienbuch Haussner", erstellt von Richard Haussner und Georg Friederici bekommen. Falls Du dorthinkommst, kannst Du da mal hineinschauen. 
Gebe mir bitte Deine Mail-Adresse an.
Herzliche Grüsse aus Santiago de Chile (33 ºC)
Georg

[HN] German terminology in burial records

Date: 2006/01/08 01:19:53
From: Bonnie Hartmann <Gidget398(a)cox.net>

In reading old churchbook records for burials, might anyone know what "Nachten der Verstorben" or something like that means?  This term is listed after certain informants or witnesses.  Does this indicate some relationship to the deceased?  Hope I spelled it right as it's hard to read.

Thank you!
Bonnie H.

Re: [HN] German terminology in burial records

Date: 2006/01/08 01:36:33
From: Ralf Stamporek <R.S(a)pobox.com>

Bonnie,

if it just looks like
'Nichte' it would be 'niece' of the deceased person.

Or it could be something like
'Naechster', then it would mean 'nearest relative' of the deceased.

So yes, you are right. It indicates (or could indicate) a relationship
to the deceased.

Maybe this helps,

Regards,
Ralf Stamporek

Bonnie Hartmann schrieb:
In reading old churchbook records for burials, might anyone know what "Nachten der Verstorben" or something like that means?  This term is listed after certain informants or witnesses.  Does this indicate some relationship to the deceased?  Hope I spelled it right as it's hard to read.

Thank you!
Bonnie H.
______________________________________________
--
Wciaz poszukuje osob o nazwisku STA(M)POREK w Kielcach i okolicach.
http://www.aller-ursprung.de


Re: [HN] German terminology in burial records

Date: 2006/01/08 01:42:59
From: Bonnie Hartmann <Gidget398(a)cox.net>

Thank you, Ralf. It is usually written next to a man's name, so it can't be a niece. And I don't think it's Naechster. Hmmm, I'll have to go back and study it further!

Bonnie


----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralf Stamporek" <R.S(a)pobox.com>


Bonnie,

if it just looks like
'Nichte' it would be 'niece' of the deceased person.

Or it could be something like
'Naechster', then it would mean 'nearest relative' of the deceased.

So yes, you are right. It indicates (or could indicate) a relationship
to the deceased.

Maybe this helps,

Regards,
Ralf Stamporek

Bonnie Hartmann schrieb:
In reading old churchbook records for burials, might anyone know what "Nachten der Verstorben" or something like that means? This term is listed after certain informants or witnesses. Does this indicate some relationship to the deceased? Hope I spelled it right as it's hard to read.


Re: [HN] German terminology in burial records

Date: 2006/01/08 02:07:19
From: Ralf Stamporek <R.S(a)pobox.com>

Okay Bonnie,

I do have another guess then. You are writing that it is from an
old churchbook. But, could it also be from a civil registration
book?

If so, it is also possible that you have read about a
'Nachbar', which means 'next neighbor' to the deceased.

This was most common in civil registration forms. The neighbors
appeared at the registry office to announce someones death.

Another hint?

Regards,
Ralf Stamporek

Bonnie Hartmann schrieb:

Thank you, Ralf. It is usually written next to a man's name, so it can't be a niece. And I don't think it's Naechster. Hmmm, I'll have to go back and study it further!

Bonnie


----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralf Stamporek" <R.S(a)pobox.com>


Bonnie,

if it just looks like
'Nichte' it would be 'niece' of the deceased person.

Or it could be something like
'Naechster', then it would mean 'nearest relative' of the deceased.

So yes, you are right. It indicates (or could indicate) a relationship
to the deceased.

Maybe this helps,

Regards,
Ralf Stamporek

--
Wciaz poszukuje osob o nazwisku STA(M)POREK w Kielcach i okolicach.
http://www.aller-ursprung.de


Re: [HN] German terminology in burial records

Date: 2006/01/08 05:22:43
From: Bonnie Hartmann <Gidget398(a)cox.net>

Ah, Ralf, I think you've got it!!! It is from a churchbook, St. Martini's Ev. Lutheran Church in Veckenstedt, Sachsen-Anhalt. I'm positive "Nachbar" is correct. It is always used after an informant's name.

Thank you so very, very much!  Bless you!
Bonnie


----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralf Stamporek" <R.S(a)pobox.com>


Okay Bonnie,

I do have another guess then. You are writing that it is from an
old churchbook. But, could it also be from a civil registration
book?

If so, it is also possible that you have read about a
'Nachbar', which means 'next neighbor' to the deceased.

This was most common in civil registration forms. The neighbors
appeared at the registry office to announce someones death.

Another hint?

Regards,
Ralf Stamporek


AW: [HN] Nicholaus Hanf from Hesse

Date: 2006/01/08 09:28:59
From: Heinz Ebenhög <Heinz.Ebenhoeg(a)t-online.de>

Dear Barbie,

Sorry, this Gottlieb Hanf, who emigrated 1859 from Kapfenhardt to USA, is not the person, who I try to find in the "Kingdom Hannover". Kapfenhardt is situated on the former border between Baden and Würtemmberg. I'm searching a person who was born near Hannover. Kapfenhardt is wide away.

You wrote:

Notes:
Nicholaus Hanf of Germany married Elizabeth Lipman.
Their son Gottlieb Hanf (b1844) who came to United States in 1860.

Gottlieb Hanf married Catherine Green and settled in Baltimore Maryland. 
Thier children were Mary, William, Matilda, Katherine, Charles, Frederick, 
Anna.

Database #: 22119
Contact:  lostnfog(a)aol.com/lostnfog(a)netzero.com

All this dates are wellknown. They are from Leni, the lady for who I search the genealogical dates of her ancestor in Germany.

Leider erhalte ich auf meine Anfrage in der Liste keine Antwort von niedersächsichen Familienforschern. Kennt denn niemand in der Umgebung von Hannover wenigstens einen Ort, an dem noch viele Familien mit dem Namen Hanf (oder Hanff/Hanft) leben? Vielleicht komme ich dann mit den dortigen Kirchenbüchern weiter.

Herzliche Grüße
Heinz
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: AW: [HN] Nicholaus Hanf from Hesse

Date: 2006/01/08 11:40:15
From: Wilfried . Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"Heinz Ebenhög" <Heinz.Ebenhoeg(a)t-online.de> schrieb:

> 
> Leider erhalte ich auf meine Anfrage in der Liste keine Antwort von niedersächsichen Familienforschern. Kennt denn niemand in der Umgebung von Hannover wenigstens einen Ort, an dem noch viele Familien mit dem Namen Hanf (oder Hanff/Hanft) leben? Vielleicht komme ich dann mit den dortigen Kirchenbüchern weiter.
> 

Hallo Heinz,

lt. Telefon-CD (2002) gibt es 8 Hanf in Hannover und 6 in Salzgitter. Außerdem noch zahlreiche in anderen Orten der Region, aber jeweils immer nur wenige.

Gruß
Wilfried (Petersen)


Re: AW: [HN] Nicholaus Hanf from Hesse

Date: 2006/01/08 14:10:45
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"Heinz Ebenhög" <Heinz.Ebenhoeg(a)t-online.de> schrieb:
... 
> Leider erhalte ich auf meine Anfrage in der Liste keine Antwort von niedersächsichen Familienforschern. Kennt denn niemand in der Umgebung von Hannover wenigstens einen Ort, an dem noch viele Familien mit dem Namen Hanf (oder Hanff/Hanft) leben? Vielleicht komme ich dann mit den dortigen Kirchenbüchern weiter.
...
Hallo Herr Heinz Ebenhög,

bin die Ortseinträge der 1998 im Telefonbuch verzeich-neten HANF durchgegangen. Die norddeutsche Tiefebene scheint danach für Träger des namens HANF weitgehend tabu zu sein, abgesehen von einigen Großstädtern in Hamburg und Bremen. Daneben finden sich ganz wenige Titelträger, Dr. und dipl.Ing etc. in kleineren Orten, wobei anzunehmen ist, dass mit großer Wahrscheinlichkeit berufliche Gründe für die Ortswahl bestimmend sind. Ansonsten ist das Verbreitungsgebiet wohl von der Linie Hannover auf der ganzen Breite des heutigen Landes Richtung Süden zu finden. Ein Schwerpunkt der Verbreitung scheint im Ort Hellenthal zu sein. Neben den etwa 10 Einträgen für HANF in Hannover gibt es noch als nächst größere Konzentration etwa 4 für Salzgitter im von Ihnen genannten Suchraum. Vereinzelte Ver-treter mit jeweils einem Eintrag finden sich in verschiedenen Orten im Harz. 

Tut mir leid nicht mit besseren Ergebnissen helfen zu können. Vielleicht ist Salzgitter eine Spur.

mit freundlichen Grüßen 

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel



[HN] Fw: [OWP] Sütterlin

Date: 2006/01/08 15:32:51
From: Oliver Bund <ollibund(a)gmx.de>

Hallo Liste,

dieser Hinweis kam über die "Preußenliste" vielleicht hilft es ja jemandem weiter, ich finde ein sehr interessanter Link.

Gruß

Heike (Bund)


Liebe Listenmitglieder,

im Hamburger Abendlatt habe ich einen interessanten Artikel über eine Gruppe schriftkundiger Ruheständler gefunden, die sich einmal in der Woche zum "Übersetzen" alter Papiere treffen. Näheres über den folgenden Link:

http://www.abendblatt.de/daten/2006/01/07/520976.html




Re: AW: [HN] Nicholaus Hanf from Hesse

Date: 2006/01/08 16:38:47
From: Emmerich . Albert <Emmerich.Albert(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Heinz,

es sind ja schon Hinweise über Telefon-Auswertungen mit Hanf gekommen. Ich schicke Dir mal ein Ergebnis einer Auswertung aller Hanf in Niedersachsen als Excel-Datei direkt an Deine email-Adresse.

Viel Erfolg,

Albert


"Heinz Ebenhög" <Heinz.Ebenhoeg(a)t-online.de> schrieb:

> Leider erhalte ich auf meine Anfrage in der Liste keine Antwort von niedersächsichen Familienforschern. Kennt denn niemand in der Umgebung von Hannover wenigstens einen Ort, an dem noch viele Familien mit dem Namen Hanf (oder Hanff/Hanft) leben? Vielleicht komme ich dann mit den dortigen Kirchenbüchern weiter.
> 
> Herzliche Grüße
> Heinz
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 


[HN] German terminology in burial records

Date: 2006/01/08 17:26:14
From: Bernd Görtz <bernd.goertz(a)t-online.de>

Hi Bonnie,
if it is taken from an old church record, then it is very unlikely that it
means Neighbor, cause the neighbors were normally not registrated. If it is
fom civil registration, then the informant was noted at the top of the
document, at the very beginning. Then the text normally starts with

Today, the (day of week, date) Mr. xy (place of residing, or sometimes may
be neighbor) appeared in the civil registration office and announced......

I have never seen that neighborship is announced in a church record. I think
it might be "Nachkommen", which is "descendants" in English.

Regards
Bernd


> Ah, Ralf, I think you've got it!!! It is from a churchbook, St. Martini's
Ev. Lutheran Church
> in Veckenstedt, Sachsen-Anhalt. I'm positive "Nachbar" is correct.
> It is always used after an informant's name.





[HN] Suche Gottieb Hanf im Kingdom Hannover

Date: 2006/01/08 18:51:59
From: Heinz Ebenhög <Heinz.Ebenhoeg(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Hans Peter,
Hallo Wilfried,

Ich bedanke mich für Eure Tipps. Da hätte ich auch alleine drauf kommen müssen. Für was habe ich einen Internetsanschluss?

Ich werde mal in den Pfarrein von Hellenthal und Salzgitter nachfragen.

Freundliche Grüße
Heinz


Re: [HN] German terminology in burial records

Date: 2006/01/08 19:44:02
From: Bonnie Hartmann <Gidget398(a)cox.net>

Hi Bernd,

Thanks for replying!
The microfilm is listed as church records on the LDS site. The first five years (1810-1814) are written in long-hand form, faded and hard to read. The death records begin with a date, then list two people who I believe are informants, with a description of these informants, such as occupation, age, and sometimes relationship to the deceased. Next is the date of death and the deceased's name and age, given in years, months, weeks, and days. At the very bottom the "informants" signed their names. If the deceased was a child, the parents' names were given before the child's name. These records are mixed in with baptisms, marriage banns, and marriages.

From 1815 to 1847 the records are in table form on pre-printed sheets, all
marriages together, baptisms together, and deaths together. These are in church format with the pastor's name listed, (much easier to read), but don't give informant's names, only the deceased's name, age, occupation or relationship to the husband or father, dates of death and burial, and the pastor's name. Later records may also include surviving family's names in the notes.

Perhaps these first years were civil registrations added to the church books? In looking at the records, I do believe "Nachbar" is correct - it fits the number of letters and what I thought was a "ten", could easily be a "bar".

Again, thank you to all who have replied! Sometimes it is like opening a window in a dark corner!

Bonnie


----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernd Görtz" <bernd.goertz(a)t-online.de>


Hi Bonnie,
if it is taken from an old church record, then it is very unlikely that it
means Neighbor, cause the neighbors were normally not registrated. If it is
fom civil registration, then the informant was noted at the top of the
document, at the very beginning. Then the text normally starts with

Today, the (day of week, date) Mr. xy (place of residing, or sometimes may
be neighbor) appeared in the civil registration office and announced......

I have never seen that neighborship is announced in a church record. I think
it might be "Nachkommen", which is "descendants" in English.

Regards
Bernd


[HN] German terminology in burial records

Date: 2006/01/08 20:56:49
From: Bernd Görtz <bernd.goertz(a)t-online.de>

Hi Bonnie,
indeed, there was civil registration during the french occupation of the
area of Hannover from about 1809, sometimes earlier, to 1813. After this
time most of the now free areas returned back to the old registration, that
means church books.

What do you are reading? You can see it at the film-headline. In case of
civil registration you will find this film named as civil registration.
Otherwise it is a church record.

To clarify this problem I propose sending a copy of this part of the page to
my Email-address and I will try to read it correctly. I cannot believe in
"the neighbor".

Best regards
Bernd




[HN] Kingdom of Hanover

Date: 2006/01/08 22:46:39
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

Can anyone tell me what years did the Kingdom of Hanover exist? And if known, what was the geo-political name before and after the KOH existed.
Thanks, Max

RE: [HN] Kingdom of Hanover

Date: 2006/01/08 23:23:03
From: STEVE FRICKEY <sfrickey(a)mindspring.com>

Go to: http://www.koenigreich-hannover.de/ukindex2.html


> [Original Message]
> From: <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>
> To: Burgdorf Search <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Date: 1/8/2006 4:47:06 PM
> Subject: [HN] Kingdom of Hanover
>
> Can anyone tell me what years did the Kingdom of Hanover exist? And if
known, what was the geo-political name before and after the KOH existed.
> Thanks, Max
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



[HN] mixed Civil- / Churchbooks - was: German terminology in burial records

Date: 2006/01/08 23:51:03
From: Ralf Stamporek <R.S(a)pobox.com>

Hallo Bernd,

(ich erlaube mir jetzt hier mal anstelle von Bonnie
eine Antwort).

es gibt hierbei ueberhaupt kein Problem :-)

Es war gerade in, bzw. kurz nach der Napoleonischen Zeit
ueblich, dass die um 1808 begonnenen Zivilstandsregister,
s.u.a. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Civil
(die meisten endeten bereits 1812, manche erst 1814) von
den ortsansaessigen Pfarrern nach den Regeln des Code
Civil erfasst wurden.

Innerhalb dieses Zeitraumes war es ueblich, dass die Nachbarn
auf der Mairie erschienen, um Standesamtsfaelle zu melden.

Danach wurden oftmals die bereits zuvor verwendeten
Zivilstandsregister weiter benutzt, um kirchliche Eintraege
aufzunehmen.

D.h., es gibt lediglich - wenn ueberhaupt - ein Problem, wenn
bei der Indexierung der Mikrofilme gemurkst wurde.

Ich habe einige Beispiele, in denen von einem Kirchenbuch die
Rede ist, dieses aber nichts weiter als ein Zivilstandsregister
enthaelt.

Beispiel:
Mormonen - Filmnr. FHL INTL 1273332 beherbergt unter den Item
3 und 4 laut Katalog das Kirchenbuchduplikat 1808-1874 der
evangelischen Kirche Harbke. Aber genau jene Item 3 u. 4
beinhalten nichts anderes als das ZIVILREGISTER von 1808 bis
1812.

That's how easy it is. An indexing problem, nothing else.

Und ich habe noch eine Reihe weiterer Beispiele, gerade aus den
Bereichen heutiges Niedersachsen, bzw. heutiges Sachsen-Anhalt
falls dies eine Beispiel nicht ausreicht. Das alles duerfte aber
nicht wirklich infrage stehen.

Gruesse,
Ralf Stamporek

Bernd Görtz schrieb:

Hi Bonnie,
indeed, there was civil registration during the french occupation of the
area of Hannover from about 1809, sometimes earlier, to 1813. After this
time most of the now free areas returned back to the old registration, that
means church books.

What do you are reading? You can see it at the film-headline. In case of
civil registration you will find this film named as civil registration.
Otherwise it is a church record.

To clarify this problem I propose sending a copy of this part of the page to
my Email-address and I will try to read it correctly. I cannot believe in
"the neighbor".

Best regards
Bernd

--
Wciaz poszukuje osob o nazwisku STA(M)POREK w Kielcach i okolicach.
http://www.aller-ursprung.de


[HN] Kingdom of Hannover

Date: 2006/01/09 06:14:46
From: Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>

Hi Max:  The website someone suggested does not tell you very much.  Here are the dates you want:
The Kingddom of Hannover existed from 1714 to 1866 with a ten year gap in the middle 1803-1814 when Napoleon conquered it and called it  a Department of the French Empire.  After 1866 it was a province of Prussia.
>From 1692 - 1714 it was the Electorate of Hannover ( the so-called 9th Electorate - strictly speaking the name was correctly the Electorate of Braunschweig-Lüneburg, but Ernst August lived and ruled from Hannover instead of Celle and liked the name Hannover better)
Prior to 1692 it was a small part of the Duchy of Braunschwein-Lüneburg all the way back to Heinrich der Löwe in the 12th century.
Heinrich united many small areas to become the Duchy of  Saxony - roughly comparable to what is now Neidersaschen.  Prior to that Hannover, per se, did not exist but the general area was known as Saxony ( not  present day Saxony which was only added to the Empire by Heinrich). 
>From AD772-782 Charlemagne (Karl der Grosse) conquered it and added it to the Frankish Empire - which later became known as the Holy Roman Empire.  And all of the above was a part of the Empire until 1806.
Prior to Charlemagne's conquest it was always known as Saxony way back to Roman times when the Romans tried to conquer it, but failed to do so.
There is your history in a very small nutshell.  Hope it helps.  I might add that from the Prussian conquest (1866) until 1932 there was a strong independence movement in Hannover (they hated the Prussians and wanted to be free of them).
I might also add that if you want more details of all this history from 782-1891, you should read my novels The Saxon Chronicle.   They will give you all of the above  in a very easily readible form.     Jane

Jane Swan
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

Re: [HN] Kingdom of Hannover

Date: 2006/01/09 07:05:17
From: svcygnus <svcygnus(a)pocketmail.com>

Hi Jane & Max,
   My informants tell me that the Kingdom of Hannover came into existence as a
result of agreements made at the Congress of Vienna which redrew the European
map in 1815 AFTER Napoleon had suffered his initial defeat but before the
Battle of Waterloo.
As you said, the KIngdom of Hannover ceased to exist after the Seven Weeks War
in the summer of 1866 when the Prussians invaded and annexed it.
    Don Roddy
----- Message from jeswansong(a)earthlink.net ---------
    Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:14:38 -0500
    From: Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
 Subject: [HN] Kingdom of Hannover
      To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net



Hi Max: The website someone suggested does not tell you very much. Here are the dates you want: The Kingddom of Hannover existed from 1714 to 1866 with a ten year gap in the middle 1803-1814 when Napoleon conquered it and called it a Department of the French Empire. After 1866 it was a province of Prussia....


Re: AW: [HN] Nicholaus Hanf from Hesse

Date: 2006/01/09 11:11:20
From: Efhensel <Efhensel(a)aol.com>

Sorry, but what does this have to do with Hesse?

Eckhard Hensel

n einer eMail vom 2006-01-08 09:29:37 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt 
Heinz.Ebenhoeg(a)t-online.de: 

> 
> Dear Barbie,
> 
> Sorry, this Gottlieb Hanf, who emigrated 1859 from Kapfenhardt to USA, is 
> not the person, who I try to find in the "Kingdom Hannover". Kapfenhardt is 
> situated on the former border between Baden and Würtemmberg. I'm searching a 
> person who was born near Hannover. Kapfenhardt is wide away.
> 


[HN] Mixed Civil- / Churchbooks - was: German terminology in burial records

Date: 2006/01/09 12:09:23
From: Bernd Görtz <bernd.goertz(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Ralf,

wenn in dem befreffenden Mikrofilm Kirchenbuch und Standesamt verwechselt
worden ist, dann ist der Nachbar möglich. Das wird Bonnie nun prüfen, wie
sie mir schrieb, indem sie am Anfang den Titel des Dokuments einsieht.

In case of confusing "church records" with "civil registration" it is surely
possible that a neighbor appears. That will be now checked by Bonnie. She
wrote, that she will check the title of the whole document at the very
beginning.


Regards
Bernd


>> es gibt hierbei ueberhaupt kein Problem :-)


>> That's how easy it is. An indexing problem, nothing else.



Gruesse,
Ralf Stamporek

Bernd Görtz schrieb:


Hi Bonnie,
indeed, there was civil registration during the french occupation of the
area of Hannover from about 1809, sometimes earlier, to 1813. After this
time most of the now free areas returned back to the old registration, that
means church books.


What do you are reading? You can see it at the film-headline. In case of
civil registration you will find this film named as civil registration.
Otherwise it is a church record.


To clarify this problem I propose sending a copy of this part of the page to
my Email-address and I will try to read it correctly. I cannot believe in
"the neighbor".



Antw: [HN] Kingdom of Hannover

Date: 2006/01/09 13:56:42
From: Falk Liebezeit <Falk.Liebezeit(a)diepholz.de>

Hi Jane and Max, 

Hannover was a duchy and an electorate until 1814, 
when on Oct. 12th king George III of Great Britain declared himself king of Hannover. When in 1837 his granddaughter Victoria became queen, that was a problem for Hannover where a male successor was claimed  by
the law, so Ernst August was declared king of Hannover, in 1851 his son took over but was defeated by Prussia in 1866. 

So next it was the province of Hannover within the kingdom of Prussia 
until 1918 when the German monarchies came to an end. 

Greeting from Diepholz/Hann., now Niedersachsen = Lower Saxony

Falk (Liebezeit)

>>> jeswansong(a)earthlink.net 01/09 6:14  >>>
Hi Max:  The website someone suggested does not tell you very much.  Here are the dates you want:
The Kingddom of Hannover existed from 1714 to 1866 with a ten year gap in the middle 1803-1814 when Napoleon conquered it and called it  a Department of the French Empire.  After 1866 it was a province of Prussia.
>From 1692 - 1714 it was the Electorate of Hannover ( the so-called 9th Electorate - strictly speaking the name was correctly the Electorate of Braunschweig-Lüneburg, but Ernst August lived and ruled from Hannover instead of Celle and liked the name Hannover better)
Prior to 1692 it was a small part of the Duchy of Braunschwein-Lüneburg all the way back to Heinrich der Löwe in the 12th century.
Heinrich united many small areas to become the Duchy of  Saxony - roughly comparable to what is now Neidersaschen.  Prior to that Hannover, per se, did not exist but the general area was known as Saxony ( not  present day Saxony which was only added to the Empire by Heinrich). 
>From AD772-782 Charlemagne (Karl der Grosse) conquered it and added it to the Frankish Empire - which later became known as the Holy Roman Empire.  And all of the above was a part of the Empire until 1806.
Prior to Charlemagne's conquest it was always known as Saxony way back to Roman times when the Romans tried to conquer it, but failed to do so.
There is your history in a very small nutshell.  Hope it helps.  I might add that from the Prussian conquest (1866) until 1932 there was a strong independence movement in Hannover (they hated the Prussians and wanted to be free of them).
I might also add that if you want more details of all this history from 782-1891, you should read my novels The Saxon Chronicle.   They will give you all of the above  in a very easily readible form.     Jane

Jane Swan
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net 
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Liebe(r) Mailingliste,

Date: 2006/01/09 18:02:54
From: Heermann <cheermann(a)t-online.de>

Ich verwende einen Spamfilter, und du sicherlich auch.
Damit ich alle deine Mails erhalte, habe ich deine Adresse zu meiner "Whitelist" (Liste über erwünschte Absender) hinzugefügt, und würde mich freuen, wenn du auch meine Adresse cheermann(a)t-online.de zu der Whitelist deines Spamfilters hinzufügst.

Wenn du noch keinen Spamfilter hast, kann ich SPAMfighter empfehlen, einen kostenlosen deutschsprachigen Spamfilter für Outlook und Outlook Express.

Hier kannst du SPAMfighter kostenlos herunterladen:
http://www.spamfighter.com/Pro

Ich hoffe, du setzt meine Adresse ebenfalls auf deine Whitelist, damit wir in Zukunft sicher kommunizieren können.

Viele Grüße,

Heermann

[HN] Kingdom of Hannover

Date: 2006/01/09 18:08:46
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi Max,
A dukedom or a princedom (principality) does not become a Kingdom unless there is a king involved.

For Brunswick, read:  "Braunschweig":

Ernest Augustus of Brunswick-Lüneburg had married Sophie granddaughter of the Scottish king James I of Great Britain. The British Act of Settlement (1701) designated Sophie heiress of the British crown after Queen Anne, but because Sophie died shortly before Anne in 1714, her son Georg Ludwig succeeded as George I of GB (1714-1727). He was the first of five monarchs of the House of Hanover and he ruled over both Hanover and Great Britain. He assumed the title of King of Hanover on 12 August 1814 following negotiations at the Congress of Vienna. Hanover was expanded to the North Sea by the addition of Bremen and Verden in 1715 and the bishopric of Osnabruck in 1803. Hanover remained united to the British Crown until 1837 when King William IV died and Queen Victoria succeeded to the British throne. As women were barred from the Hanoverian succession King William IV was succeeded in that country by his brother Ernst August, Duke of Cumberland (1771-1851). The last King of Hanover was George V (1819-1878) who was deposed on 20 September 1866 when Prussia annexed Hanover having taken the side of Austria in their war with Prussia over the administration of Schleswig-Holstein. After the death of King George V his son Prince Ernst August (1845-1923) took the title of Duke of Cumberland, Duke of Brunswick and Luneburg on 11 July 1878.

Rena
==
The Kingdom of Hannover existed from 1714 to 1866 with a ten year gap in
the middle 1803-1814 when Napoleon conquered it and called it  a Department
of the French Empire.  After 1866 it was a province of Prussia.
From 1692 - 1714 it was the Electorate of Hannover ( the so-called 9th
Electorate - strictly speaking the name was correctly the Electorate of
Braunschweig-Lüneburg, but Ernst August lived and ruled from Hannover
instead of Celle and liked the name Hannover better)
Prior to 1692 it was a small part of the Duchy of Braunschwein-Lüneburg all
the way back to Heinrich der Löwe in the 12th century.
Heinrich united many small areas to become the Duchy of  Saxony - roughly
comparable to what is now Neidersaschen.  Prior to that Hannover, per se,
did not exist but the general area was known as Saxony ( not  present day
Saxony which was only added to the Empire by Heinrich).
From AD772-782 Charlemagne (Karl der Grosse) conquered it and added it to
the Frankish Empire - which later became known as the Holy Roman Empire.
And all of the above was a part of the Empire until 1806.
Prior to Charlemagne's conquest it was always known as Saxony way back to
Roman times when the Romans tried to conquer it, but failed to do so.
There is your history in a very small nutshell.  Hope it helps.  I might add
that from the Prussian conquest (1866) until 1932 there was a strong
independence movement in Hannover (they hated the Prussians and wanted to be
free of them).
I might also add that if you want more details of all this history from
782-1891, you should read my novels The Saxon Chronicle.   They will give
you all of the above  in a very easily readible form.     Jane

Jane Swan

Hi Jane & Max,
   My informants tell me that the Kingdom of Hannover came into existence
as a
result of agreements made at the Congress of Vienna which redrew the
European
map in 1815 AFTER Napoleon had suffered his initial defeat but before the
Battle of Waterloo.
As you said, the KIngdom of Hannover ceased to exist after the Seven Weeks
War
in the summer of 1866 when the Prussians invaded and annexed it.
Don Roddy


[HN] Hanover

Date: 2006/01/09 19:02:12
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

I thank all who responded to my post re the Kingdom of Hanover. I have printed some of the replies in the event I am succsessful in my search.
This is what I am trying to do. I am searching for the birthplace, baptismal location, etc of my ggrandfather Julis Wilhelm Burgdorf. He states on a document he attested to in New Orleans that he was born 'in Hildesheim in Hanover', about 1825. A search by a professional genealogist in Germany of both Catholic and Evangelical church records in the city of Hildesheim was fruitless. This researcher told me that Hildesheim can refer to a 'territory' as well as the city. I understand this to be similar to  a county or state in the US. and that all towns, villages in that 'territory are possible targets of my search. It occurs to me that I need access to a map of the Hildesheim 'territory' so that I can identify them by name. I then might be able to find a church resouce, like an archdiocese that may have records. While I think he was evangelical I cannot rule out that he was Catholic. I have an early 1900s picture of my father holding what appears to be bible and most obviously prayer beads. Yet the obituary of his father has a masonic emblem.
To be honest I do not know how to proceed. I have looked at a Hildesheim census records from LDS film, again no luck. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Max

[HN] Hanover

Date: 2006/01/09 19:19:46
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

I thank all who responded to my post re the Kingdom of Hanover. I have printed some of the replies in the event I am succsessful in my search.
This is what I am trying to do. I am searching for the birthplace, baptismal location, etc of my ggrandfather Julis Wilhelm Burgdorf. He states on a document he attested to in New Orleans that he was born 'in Hildesheim in Hanover', about 1825. A search by a professional genealogist in Germany of both Catholic and Evangelical church records in the city of Hildesheim was fruitless. This researcher told me that Hildesheim can refer to a 'territory' as well as the city. I understand this to be similar to  a county or state in the US. and that all towns, villages in that 'territory are possible targets of my search. It occurs to me that I need access to a map of the Hildesheim 'territory' so that I can identify them by name. I then might be able to find a church resouce, like an archdiocese that may have records. While I think he was evangelical I cannot rule out that he was Catholic. I have an early 1900s picture of my father holding what appears to be bible and most obviously prayer beads. Yet the obituary of his father has a masonic emblem.
To be honest I do not know how to proceed. I have looked at a Hildesheim census records from LDS film, again no luck. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Max

Re: [HN] Hanover

Date: 2006/01/09 20:56:49
From: Björn Sassenberg <post(a)bjoern-sassenberg.de>

Dear Max,

may I suggest following: Try www.familysearch.org and search for ALL Burgdorfs. Write down all places in Hannover, Hildesheim and Braunschweig where you find more than just one record. When finnished, try to locate those places in a map. Those, which a close to Hildeheim, are worthy to take a look at in the church book records.

I hope, it helps.

Kindly regards, from Langenhagen, Lower Saxony, Germany,

Björn

----- Original Message ----- From: <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>
To: "Hannover List" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:02 PM
Subject: [HN] Hanover


I thank all who responded to my post re the Kingdom of Hanover. I have printed some of the replies in the event I am succsessful in my search. This is what I am trying to do. I am searching for the birthplace, baptismal location, etc of my ggrandfather Julis Wilhelm Burgdorf. He states on a document he attested to in New Orleans that he was born 'in Hildesheim in Hanover', about 1825. A search by a professional genealogist in Germany of both Catholic and Evangelical church records in the city of Hildesheim was fruitless. This researcher told me that Hildesheim can refer to a 'territory' as well as the city. I understand this to be similar to a county or state in the US. and that all towns, villages in that 'territory are possible targets of my search. It occurs to me that I need access to a map of the Hildesheim 'territory' so that I can identify them by name. I then might be able to find a church resouce, like an archdiocese that may have records. While I think he was evangelical I cannot rule out that he was Catholic. I have an early 1900s picture of my father holding what appears to be bible and most obviously prayer beads. Yet the obituary of his father has a masonic emblem. To be honest I do not know how to proceed. I have looked at a Hildesheim census records from LDS film, again no luck. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Max
______________________________________________

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Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Burgdorf in Hildesheim

Date: 2006/01/09 21:06:14
From: Bernd Görtz <bernd.goertz(a)t-online.de>

Hi Max,

1. Burgdorf is a common name in Hildesheim and the region around Hildesheim.

2. It is true, there was (is) a country district Hildesheim. It was called
Landkreis Hildesheim-Marienburg.

3. Hildesheim had and has some protestantic churches. The most famous and
well known is the Michaelis church. But there are also some others (e.g.
Lamberti, St. Andreas). What churches do you have checked to find Julius
Wilhelm Burgdorf?

4. In case of a birth in one of the villages of the county district it will
be a very hard search to find it. In this case you should select all the
evangelical villages around Hildesheim and then test it! Do you know what it
is, a sisiphus-work? A work that will never end!

5. There was no civil registration in Hildesheim around 1835.

Due to this, first of all you should be sure that he is not born in the town
Hildesheim. Ask the professional genealogist whether he checked all churches
with no exception within the city and ask him, to name the churches.

Best regards
Bernd




>> I am searching for the birthplace, baptismal location, etc of my
ggrandfather
>> Julis Wilhelm Burgdorf. He states on a document he attested to in New
Orleans
>> that he was born 'in Hildesheim in Hanover', about 1825.
>> A search by a professional genealogist in Germany of both Catholic and
>> Evangelical church records in the city of Hildesheim was fruitless.
>> This researcher told me that Hildesheim can refer to a 'territory'
>> as well as the city. I understand this to be similar to  a county
>> or state in the US. and that all towns, villages in that 'territory
>> are possible targets of my search. It occurs to me that I need
>> access to a map of the Hildesheim 'territory' so that I can identify them
by name.
>> I then might be able to find a church resouce, like an archdiocese
>> that may have records. While I think he was evangelical I cannot
>> rule out that he was Catholic. I have an early 1900s picture of my
>> father holding what appears to be bible and most obviously prayer beads.
>> Yet the obituary of his father has a masonic emblem.
>> To be honest I do not know how to proceed.
>> I have looked at a Hildesheim census records from LDS film,
>> again no luck. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
>> Max



Re: [HN] Hanover

Date: 2006/01/09 21:46:11
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Max,

        As you may know, the only Julius Burgdorf in the Wolfenbüttel
emigration records came from the area of Salder which was probably not in
the "district" of Hildesheim. Furthermore, that Julius Burgdorf emigrated in
1849.  Is it possible that he came earlier than the 1859-1860?

    I was looking at the Lousisiana genealogy records.  Is the Max C.E.
Burgdorf I see there related to you? Have you ever checked the marriage and
birth records of the family of Julius Burgdorf to see if a birthplace for
Julius is ever mentioned?  Were Julius' family baptized in a Catholic or
Lutheran church?  If there is a chance that he was Catholic, you could try
to contact the Catholic diocese of Hildesheim and they may have records
there. Here is an  email address:

bistumsarchiv(a)bistum-hildesheim.de

You could also contact the Catholic diocese in New Orleans. Many dioceses in
the U.S. and in Germany have "centralized" their church records.  However, I
would think the researcher you hired in Germany would have researched those
places. 

     You can get a map of Hildesheim by going to: http://www.mapquest.com/
Go to Maps and click on "outside U.S. and Canada" and then fill in the blank
for Hildesheim in Germany.  You can zoom in and out to get the big picture
or more detailed picture.

Good luck to you!
Barbara



on 1/9/06 11:19 AM, pharmaxx(a)charter.net at pharmaxx(a)charter.net wrote:

> I thank all who responded to my post re the Kingdom of Hanover. I have printed
> some of the replies in the event I am succsessful in my search.
> This is what I am trying to do. I am searching for the birthplace, baptismal
> location, etc of my ggrandfather Julis Wilhelm Burgdorf. He states on a
> document he attested to in New Orleans that he was born 'in Hildesheim in
> Hanover', about 1825. A search by a professional genealogist in Germany of
> both Catholic and Evangelical church records in the city of Hildesheim was
> fruitless. This researcher told me that Hildesheim can refer to a 'territory'
> as well as the city. I understand this to be similar to  a county or state in
> the US. and that all towns, villages in that 'territory are possible targets
> of my search. It occurs to me that I need access to a map of the Hildesheim
> 'territory' so that I can identify them by name. I then might be able to find
> a church resouce, like an archdiocese that may have records. While I think he
> was evangelical I cannot rule out that he was Catholic. I have an early 1900s
> picture of my father holding what appears to be bible and most obviously
> prayer beads. Yet the obituary of his father has a masonic emblem.
> To be honest I do not know how to proceed. I have looked at a Hildesheim
> census records from LDS film, again no luck. Any suggestions will be greatly
> appreciated.
> Max
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Hanover

Date: 2006/01/10 03:39:15
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hello Max,
Ref the old obituary - emblems usually symbolised the trade of the deceased and are to be found on old grave headstones. There were a few for builders, the compass being the sign of the stonemason. It may be that the bible and the rosary beads were props provided by the photographer which were used to show the status of the subject/sitter; in this case a man of good standing in the community.

Searching through films is a hit and miss affair I have discovered - I knew the village and year of my gt. grandather's birth and I should have found it in the first film I viewed but I didn't find the entry until the fourth film! Your ancestor may well have thought he was born in Hildesheim but the town could have grown and incorporated some hamlets in his lifetime there - this is a reason to look at other films. This is the situation I discovered for myself: a village in 1824 had become part of a larger town in 1852 and thus I was searching (another) wrong film!

I noticed there are two films for emigrants from Hildesheim, maybe permission for your ancestor's migration is included in the records.

Hildesheim
Auswanderungen 101-1331 Nr. 1-2 1845-1846, 1825-1833 FHL INTL Film
2063759 Item 6
101-1331 Nr. 3-7 1834-1913 ( Die Jahre 1850 Fehlen!) FHL INTL Film
2063760 Items 1-5

Just to put a spanner in the works - I had a look at an online map and noticed there was a Hildesheimer on the outskirts of modern Hildesheim.

Good luck,
Rena in england
=
From: <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>
I thank all who responded to my post re the Kingdom of Hanover. I have printed some of the replies
in the event I am succsessful in my search.
This is what I am trying to do. I am searching for the birthplace, baptismal location, etc of my ggrandfather Julis Wilhelm Burgdorf. He states on a document he attested to in New Orleans that he was born 'in Hildesheim in Hanover', about 1825. A search by a professional genealogist in Germany of both Catholic and Evangelical church records in the city of Hildesheim was fruitless. This researcher told me that Hildesheim can refer to a 'territory' as well as the city. I understand this to be similar to a county or state in the US. and that all towns, villages in that 'territory are possible targets of my search. It occurs to me that I need access to a map of the Hildesheim 'territory' so that I can identify them by name. I then might be able to find a church resouce, like an archdiocese that may have records. While I think he was evangelical I cannot rule out that he was Catholic. I have an early 1900s picture of my father holding what appears to be bible and most
obviously prayer beads. Yet the obituary of his father has a masonic emblem.
To be honest I do not know how to proceed. I have looked at a Hildesheim census records from LDS
film, again no luck. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Max


[HN] SPAMFIGHTER - Klarstellung

Date: 2006/01/10 09:53:23
From: Christian W. Heermann <cheermann(a)t-online.de>

Guten Tag allen Empfängern,

wer unter meinem Namen eine Mail mit dem Hinweis auf die Begriffe "WHITELIST" und "SPAMFIGHTER" erhalten hat, kann diese unbedenklich löschen oder auch öffnen.

Folgendes ist geschehen:

Ich habe das kostenlose Programm "SPAMFIGHTER" zur Abwehr von SPAM-Mails installiert
und darin eine Liste der von mir akzeptierten Absender (= "WHITELIST") eingerichtet.
Dabei habe ich unbewußt und auch ungewollt diese automatischen Mail´s durch den Hersteller/ Vertreiber diese Programms ausgelöst.
Dafür bitte ich alle Betroffenen um Entschuldigung.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Christian W. Heermann

AW: [HN] SPAMFIGHTER - Klarstellung

Date: 2006/01/10 11:44:02
From: Klaus Gevert <kgevert(a)web.de>

Na dann ist ja alles klar.
Klaus

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] Im Auftrag von Christian W.
Heermann
Gesendet: Dienstag, 10. Januar 2006 08:57
An: NLF; GGHH; CompGen; AMF; SHFam; Mailingliste, Westfalen-L; Mailingliste,
SHF; Mailingliste, Sachsen-Anhalt-L; pafuser(a)yahoogroups.de; Mailingliste,
NLF; Mailingliste, Niederschlesien-L; Mailingliste, News-L; Mailingliste,
Hompages-L; Mailingliste, Hannover-l; Mailingliste, GenGesHH; Mailingliste,
Compgend; Mailingliste, BaWue; Mailingliste, Sudeten.bms-l; Mailingliste,
PAF-User
Betreff: [HN] SPAMFIGHTER - Klarstellung


Guten Tag allen Empfängern,

wer unter meinem Namen eine Mail mit dem Hinweis auf die Begriffe
"WHITELIST" und "SPAMFIGHTER" erhalten hat, kann diese unbedenklich löschen
oder auch öffnen.

Folgendes ist geschehen:

Ich habe das kostenlose Programm "SPAMFIGHTER" zur Abwehr von SPAM-Mails
installiert
und darin eine Liste der von mir akzeptierten Absender (= "WHITELIST")
eingerichtet.
Dabei habe ich unbewußt und auch ungewollt diese automatischen Mail´s durch
den Hersteller/ Vertreiber diese Programms ausgelöst.
Dafür bitte ich alle Betroffenen um Entschuldigung.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Christian W. Heermann
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Fw: Fam. Rautenberg aus Celle später o stpreussen

Date: 2006/01/10 13:00:36
From: Sebastian Rautenberg <basti(a)sera-online.net>

Hallo
 suche Informationen zur Familie Rautenberg aus der Region celle die zwischen 1770 und 1818  nach Ostpreussen ausgewandert sind.

Liebe Grüße
Sebastian

Re: AW: [HN] Nicholaus Hanf from Hesse

Date: 2006/01/10 20:00:06
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Leib Heinz,

I did not know actually where Kapfenhardt located. I had come across the message for your friend and also the Gottl. Hanf passenger record and sent on in case would be of help. I sort of thought that the Gottl. Hanf of the passenger list was a different Gottlieb Hanf as estimated birth year would be 1839-1840 (19 years) in 1859.

Ich wußte nicht wirklich, wo Kapfenhardt fand. Ich war über die Anzeige für Ihren Freund und auch das Gottl gekommen. Hanf Passagieraufzeichnung und an gesendet, falls hilfreich seien Sie. Ich sortiere vom diesem Gedanken das Gottl. Hanf der Passagierliste war ein anderes Gottlieb Hanf, da geschätztes Geburt Jahr 1839-1840 (19 Jahre) 1859 sein würde.


Leib Eckhard,

I think I responded to wrong message. Heinz is looking for a person from Hannover...I think another message regarding family Hanf was thought to be from Hesse.


Ich denke, daß ich auf falsche Anzeige reagierte. Heinz sucht eine Person von Hannover..., das ich denke, daß eine andere Anzeige betreffend ist Familie Hanf gedacht wurde, um von Hesse zu sein.

Wärmster Respekt,
Barbie-Lew

From: Efhensel(a)aol.com
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: AW: [HN] Nicholaus Hanf from Hesse
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 05:10:46 EST

Sorry, but what does this have to do with Hesse?

Eckhard Hensel

n einer eMail vom 2006-01-08 09:29:37 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt
Heinz.Ebenhoeg(a)t-online.de:

>
> Dear Barbie,
>
> Sorry, this Gottlieb Hanf, who emigrated 1859 from Kapfenhardt to USA, is > not the person, who I try to find in the "Kingdom Hannover". Kapfenhardt is > situated on the former border between Baden and Würtemmberg. I'm searching a
> person who was born near Hannover. Kapfenhardt is wide away.
>

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RE: [HN] Hanover-Burgdorf Family

Date: 2006/01/10 20:24:16
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Max,

This homepage seems to indicate that family member married into a Burgdorf family from Barbecke.

Seine Seite scheint, anzuzeigen, daß ein Familie Mitglied in eine Burgdorf Familie von Barbecke verband.

http://www.familie-ohlhoff.de

http://www.familie-ohlhoff.de/Auswanderung/barbecke.htm

Has some information in English. On the main Homepage is an avatar of a mailbox. I believe you can send an email if you click the mailbox.

Perhaps he may be able to suggest civil or church records to investigate for Julius William Burgdorf.

Hat etwas Informationen auf englisch. Auf dem Haupthomepage ist ein Avatara eines Briefkastens. Ich glaube, daß Sie ein email senden können, wenn Sie den Briefkasten anklicken.

Möglicherweise kann er in der LageSEIN, für Julius William, Burgdorf nachzuforschen die Zivil- oder Kircheaufzeichnungen vorzuschlagen.

Barbie-Lew

P.S. Contacted very kind and helpful gentleman on Burchtorf/Burgdorf listed in the book:

Auswandererlisten des ehemaligen Herzogtums Braunschweig 1846-1871

_________________________________________________________________
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[HN] Hannover-Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/10 23:08:15
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Max,

This might be interesting...Did you mention your grandfather had a brother named Carl?

From Castlegarden.org

Carl Burgdorf  Occupation Cigar Maker
Age 32
Sex M
Literacy U
Arrived 7 Sep 1853 *****
Origin Germany
Port Bremen
Last Residence Hildesheim ****
Destination New York
Plan Unknown
Ship Elisabeth
Passage Unknown



J.w. Burgdorf  Occupation Clerk
Age 33
Sex M
Literacy U
Arrived 6 Jan 1860
Origin Germany
Port Hamburg
Last Residence U
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Oder
Passage Unknown

Lucas. Feldhaus  Occupation Farmer
Age 33
Sex M
Literacy U
Arrived 27 May 1859
Origin Hanover
Port Bremen
Last Residence U
Destination Missouri
Plan Unknown
Ship Adler
Passage Unknown

P.S. About Castlegarden. Lucas Feldhaus was my grandfather. I know for a fact that his ship arrived in New Orleans. I viewed the microfilm at the St. Louis County Library SPC. I think some of the passenger lists indexed at this site, especially originating from the Port of Bremen may have actually or also stopped at the Port of New Orleans.

Barbie Lew


From: <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: Hannover List <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] Hanover
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 10:19:20 -0800

I thank all who responded to my post re the Kingdom of Hanover. I have printed some of the replies in the event I am succsessful in my search. This is what I am trying to do. I am searching for the birthplace, baptismal location, etc of my ggrandfather Julis Wilhelm Burgdorf. He states on a document he attested to in New Orleans that he was born 'in Hildesheim in Hanover', about 1825. A search by a professional genealogist in Germany of both Catholic and Evangelical church records in the city of Hildesheim was fruitless. This researcher told me that Hildesheim can refer to a 'territory' as well as the city. I understand this to be similar to a county or state in the US. and that all towns, villages in that 'territory are possible targets of my search. It occurs to me that I need access to a map of the Hildesheim 'territory' so that I can identify them by name. I then might be able to find a church resouce, like an archdiocese that may have records. While I think he was evangelical I cannot rule out that he was Catholic. I have an early 1900s picture of my father holding what appears to be bible and most obviously prayer beads. Yet the obituary of his father has a masonic emblem. To be honest I do not know how to proceed. I have looked at a Hildesheim census records from LDS film, again no luck. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Max
______________________________________________

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http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

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[HN] RIDDERBUSCH, Karl, * 1932 Recklinghausen

Date: 2006/01/10 23:29:19
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

Für Herrn Ridderbos, der nach RIDDERBUSCH suchte:

Es gibt unterschiedlichste Quellen für biographi-sche Informationen, in diesem Falle handelt es um den Text eines Platten-Covers. Die Platte ist nicht im Handel erschienen, weshalb diese Quelle wohl schwer zugänglich ist. 

Die Quellenangaben:

100 Jahre Duisburger Sinfoniker. Eine Jubiläumspro-duktion der Stadtsparkasse Duisburg mit den Duis-burger Sinfonikern und Kammersänger Karl Ridder-busch. Aufge-nommen 27. bis 29.Oktober 1977 in Duisburg

Der Cover-Text:

"Karl Ridderbusch, 1932 in Recklinghausen geboren und in Duisburg aufgewachsen, studierte an der Folkwang-Schule in essen, debütierte 1961 in Münster und ist seit 1965 Mitglied der deutschen Oper am Rhein.

Hier startete er vor rd. 10Jahren mit dem Seneca in Monteverdis "Krönung der Poppäa" eine Bilderbuch-karriere, wie sie nur wenigen Künstlern beschieden ist. Seit 1967 zählt er zu den Säulen des Ensembles der Bayreuther Festspiele. 1973 sang er in Bayreuth den Sachs, 1974 bei den Osterfestspielen in Salz-burg. Als Wagner- und Straußsänger gastiert er in den Musikmetropolen der Welt.

Sehr treffend charakterisiert ihn der Journalist Rolf R. Bigler: "So wagnerisch wie er ist kein an-derer Sänger - monumental gewachsen, beinahe 2 Me-ter groß, blond das meistens zerzauste Haupthaar und blond der Bart,die Brust gut 5 Oktaven breit.""

Hoffe es bereichert die Sammlung Ridderbusch

mit freundlichem Gruß

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel


Re: [HN] Fw: Fam. Rautenberg aus Celle spter ostpreussen

Date: 2006/01/11 03:37:51
From: gloepertz <gloepertz(a)comcast.net>

Hallo Sebastian
Von der Familie Rautenberg, sind da einige nach Amerika ausgewandert im Jahre 1864? 
Grüße aus Michigan
Günter

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Sebastian Rautenberg" <basti(a)sera-online.net> 

> Hallo 
> suche Informationen zur Familie Rautenberg aus der Region celle die zwischen 
> 1770 und 1818 nach Ostpreussen ausgewandert sind. 
> 
> Liebe Grüße 
> Sebastian 
> ______________________________________________ 
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list 
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

[HN] Burgdorf Family

Date: 2006/01/11 04:27:34
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

Hi Barbie
Just got home and found your mail. But will not pursue it until tomorrow. I was gone most of the day but stopped by the library for a few minutes between errands, Spent time only in reviewing GTA texts. Found a Wilhelm Burgdorf, a tailor who traveled with his sisters who are listed as seamstresses. He emigrated in 1847 arriving in New Orleans from Braunsweig (Spelling?) on the vessel Robert Patton. I want to check out this guy too. Got an early AM Dr. appointment and more running around and will then look at what you sent.
Max

Re: [HN] Hannover-Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/11 04:44:52
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Barbie,
     
        Both Barbecke and Barum are in the Duchy of Braunschweig.
Hildesheim was not in Braunschweig, but in Hannover. There is no doubt a
good number of Burgdorfs living in that same general area. Some will be in
the Braunschweig area and others in or near Hildesheim. In fact, there are
two towns by the name of Burgdorf not that far from Hildesheim.  I would
think the district of Hildesheim would include towns closer to that city
than 20 miles.  I could be wrong about that.  However, if you look for those
towns (Barbecke and Barum) on the LDS site, they are listed as in
Braunschweig. 

        Yes, it is true that emigration records may list not the birthplace,
but the place of residence before emigrating.

      I don't know what Brg.Anz. means.  That is often included in the codes
given in the emigration archives on the search page:

http://app.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/findbuch/

       There is no doubt that Julius Burgdorf could have been born in
Hildesheim and moved to Barbecke before emigration (or vice-versa), but one
cannot assume that without further information.  There may have been
duplicate Julius Burgdorfs right in Hildesheim at that time as well! That is
one of the difficult problems in this odd search for dead relatives that
we're all addicted to!!

     By the way, I think Max has evidence that Julius came through New
Orleans. We'll keep working on it though!

Thanks, Barbie

Barbara

 




on 1/10/06 1:57 PM, Cactus Flower at barbie8674(a)hotmail.com wrote:

> 
> Dear Barbara,
> 
> I discovered that if you download trefferlist after doing a search (Name or
> Place) at the following website, the trefferlist includes auswanderer data.
> The Julius Burgdorf Auswanderer 1849 lists Barbecke as answer to 1)
> Name/Place.  I thought place meant birthplace but I think it means domicile.
> So perhaps on auswanderers the locality listed might be the locality where
> they are leaving from and not necessarsily birth place.  I noticed mapquest
> gives l Est. Distance: 20.55 miles Barbecke, Neidersachsen to Hildesheim,
> Neidersachsen.
> 
> 
> http://aidaonline.niedersachsen.de
> 
> The Auswandererlisten des ehemaligen Herzogtums Braunschweig 1846-1871 by
> Fritz Gruhne lists:
> 
> 
> Brg. Anz. 1854-1865
> Burgdorf, Konrad Freidrich Julius, Leineweber, * Hallendorf 6.3.1824 ...
> etc. on other people.
> 
> Do you know whta Brg. Anz. 1854-1865 means?  If refers to Auswanderer
> dates..this Konrad Freidrich Julius Burgdorf born 1824 I think is very close
> to age of the Julius Burgdorf 1860 ship passenger list as Castlegarden.  I
> wonder?
> 
> Barum is another locality mentioned for people included with ^ data. I think
> this is in the same locality.  Barum, Salzgitter to Hildesheim 24 miles.
> Hallendorf to Hildesheim 23 miles.
> 
> Barbie Lew
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
>> Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>> Subject: Re: [HN] Hanover
>> Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:46:00 -0700
>> 
>> Hello Max,
>> 
>> As you may know, the only Julius Burgdorf in the Wolfenbüttel
>> emigration records came from the area of Salder which was probably not in
>> the "district" of Hildesheim. Furthermore, that Julius Burgdorf emigrated
>> in
>> 1849.  Is it possible that he came earlier than the 1859-1860?
>> 
>> I was looking at the Lousisiana genealogy records.  Is the Max C.E.
>> Burgdorf I see there related to you? Have you ever checked the marriage and
>> birth records of the family of Julius Burgdorf to see if a birthplace for
>> Julius is ever mentioned?  Were Julius' family baptized in a Catholic or
>> Lutheran church?  If there is a chance that he was Catholic, you could try
>> to contact the Catholic diocese of Hildesheim and they may have records
>> there. Here is an  email address:
>> 
>> bistumsarchiv(a)bistum-hildesheim.de
>> 
>> You could also contact the Catholic diocese in New Orleans. Many dioceses
>> in
>> the U.S. and in Germany have "centralized" their church records.  However,
>> I
>> would think the researcher you hired in Germany would have researched those
>> places.
>> 
>> You can get a map of Hildesheim by going to: http://www.mapquest.com/
>> Go to Maps and click on "outside U.S. and Canada" and then fill in the
>> blank
>> for Hildesheim in Germany.  You can zoom in and out to get the big picture
>> or more detailed picture.
>> 
>> Good luck to you!
>> Barbara
>> 
>> 














on 1/10/06 3:08 PM, Cactus Flower at barbie8674(a)hotmail.com wrote:

> Dear Max,
> 
> This might be interesting...Did you mention your grandfather had a brother
> named Carl?
> 
>> From Castlegarden.org
> 
> Carl Burgdorf  Occupation Cigar Maker
> Age 32
> Sex M
> Literacy U
> Arrived 7 Sep 1853 *****
> Origin Germany
> Port Bremen
> Last Residence Hildesheim ****
> Destination New York
> Plan Unknown
> Ship Elisabeth
> Passage Unknown
> 
> 
> 
> J.w. Burgdorf  Occupation Clerk
> Age 33
> Sex M
> Literacy U
> Arrived 6 Jan 1860
> Origin Germany
> Port Hamburg
> Last Residence U
> Destination USA
> Plan Unknown
> Ship Oder
> Passage Unknown
> 
> Lucas. Feldhaus  Occupation Farmer
> Age 33
> Sex M
> Literacy U
> Arrived 27 May 1859
> Origin Hanover
> Port Bremen
> Last Residence U
> Destination Missouri
> Plan Unknown
> Ship Adler
> Passage Unknown
> 
> P.S.  About Castlegarden.  Lucas Feldhaus was my grandfather.  I know for a
> fact that his ship arrived in New Orleans. I viewed the microfilm at the St.
> Louis County Library SPC.  I think some of the passenger  lists indexed at
> this site, especially originating from the Port of Bremen may have actually
> or also stopped at the Port of New Orleans.
> 
> Barbie Lew
> 
> 
>> From: <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>
>> Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>> To: Hannover List <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
>> Subject: [HN] Hanover
>> Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 10:19:20 -0800
>> 
>> I thank all who responded to my post re the Kingdom of Hanover. I have
>> printed some of the replies in the event I am succsessful in my search.
>> This is what I am trying to do. I am searching for the birthplace,
>> baptismal location, etc of my ggrandfather Julis Wilhelm Burgdorf. He
>> states on a document he attested to in New Orleans that he was born 'in
>> Hildesheim in Hanover', about 1825. A search by a professional genealogist
>> in Germany of both Catholic and Evangelical church records in the city of
>> Hildesheim was fruitless. This researcher told me that Hildesheim can refer
>> to a 'territory' as well as the city. I understand this to be similar to  a
>> county or state in the US. and that all towns, villages in that 'territory
>> are possible targets of my search. It occurs to me that I need access to a
>> map of the Hildesheim 'territory' so that I can identify them by name. I
>> then might be able to find a church resouce, like an archdiocese that may
>> have records. While I think he was evangelical I cannot rule out that he
>> was Catholic. I have an early 1900s picture of my father holding what
>> appears to be bible and most obviously prayer beads. Yet the obituary of
>> his father has a masonic emblem.
>> To be honest I do not know how to proceed. I have looked at a Hildesheim
>> census records from LDS film, again no luck. Any suggestions will be
>> greatly appreciated.
>> Max
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
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[HN] My families

Date: 2006/01/11 06:41:08
From: Kerry McHugh <kmmchugh(a)comcast.net>

I am new to the list, just getting back into researching my German families.
I apolgize for writing in English.  My German is very weak.

The families that I am researching are:
HECKENKAMP, John(Johann) Bernard  from Coesfeld  birth 1806
 m.  NAGEL, Anna Katherina  birth 1802

HECKENKAMP, Frances(Franz) William  born 1844  Coesfeld
 m. KRONER, Mary Ann  birth1834  Herzlake Doren, Hannover

HECKENKAMP, John (Johann) William  born Herzlake, Hannover  birth 1807
m. STARMANN, Margaretha Angela (first married surname KRONER) born 1808 Herzlake

Also is there a Grossen Dohren near Haselunne, Hannover?

Does any one know about a website by Dr. Stefan Remme? I believe that it is called Zur Geschichte von Dohren im Emsland, or this is the name of a book. Can someone please help me out with this. There is suppose to be a picture of the STARMANN family farm on it in Grossen Dohren.

Thanks so much for any help,
Kerry McHugh Upton
Olympia WA




Re: [HN] My families

Date: 2006/01/11 07:14:43
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Kerry,

      It's a great picture!  Here's the website:

http://www.ewetel.net/~stefan.remme/

Click on Dohren.  Then click on #2 and there will be a list of names,
including Starmann.  You'll see the picture of the farm by clicking on
"Bilder".  
There's also a list of email addresses including a Starmann.  That may be
helpful for your research.

There is indeed a Groß Dohren southeast of Haselünne.

Barbara


on 1/10/06 10:41 PM, Kerry McHugh at kmmchugh(a)comcast.net wrote:

> I am new to the list, just getting back into researching my German families.
> I apolgize for writing in English.  My German is very weak.
> 
> The families that I am researching are:
> HECKENKAMP, John(Johann) Bernard  from Coesfeld  birth 1806
> m.  NAGEL, Anna Katherina  birth 1802
> 
> HECKENKAMP, Frances(Franz) William  born 1844  Coesfeld
> m. KRONER, Mary Ann  birth1834  Herzlake Doren, Hannover
> 
> HECKENKAMP, John (Johann) William  born Herzlake, Hannover  birth 1807
> m.  STARMANN, Margaretha Angela (first married surname KRONER)  born
> 1808  Herzlake
> 
> Also is there a Grossen Dohren near Haselunne, Hannover?
> 
> Does any one know about a website by Dr. Stefan Remme?  I believe that
> it is called Zur Geschichte von Dohren im Emsland, or this is the name
> of a book.  Can someone please help me out with this.  There is suppose
> to be a picture of the STARMANN family farm on it in Grossen Dohren.
> 
> Thanks so much for any help,
> Kerry McHugh Upton
> Olympia WA
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


RE: [HN] Hannover Burgdorf Family

Date: 2006/01/11 09:36:27
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>


Dear Max,

Perhaps this might be of help at some point.  Perhaps not.


August 1851 Admissions to Hospital - Orleans Parish

When
5.Aug.1851

Ward
15

Name of Person
Wilhelm Burgturf

Occupation
Boatsman


Place of Birth
Grand Dutchy of Brunswick

Age
28

Last Place From
Bremen

How Long New Orleans
4 Years

Mar Stat
Single

Long Sick
4 Days


Disease
Ictus Solis

Hr of  Admission
1 1/4

Remarks

XXXXXX
http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/la/orleans/vitals/charityhos/chaaug51.txt
-------------------------------------------------------
Burchtorff
Max Charles Eugene                                       Julius Wilhelm
Mary Kirchsbein
M   W
06/01/1862
31    596

Burchdorg
Carl Gustave                                             Julius
Mary Kirschberg
M   W
09/10/1864
37    537

Burchtorff
Dorothe                                                  William
Mary                                                 -   -
04/30/1867
55    328
(Perhaps this is a Great Aunt?)
---------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------
Film owned by Historic New Orleans

Reel 4:
First Trinity Evangelical Church of Christ
German Luth. Evan. Bethlehem, Geburts und Tauf-Reg. 1844-1878

Williams research center email address

wrc(a)hnoc.org

http://www.hnoc.org/index.htm

Other names of this church:

German Protestant Church of New Orleans (1826)
First Evangelical Church
First Trinity Evangelical United Church of Christ (1991)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name of Deceased  ( David Burgdorf )
Date of Death  1892-02-02
Age  5 mo.
Paper Date Page/Section/Column Lang.
TIMES DEMOCRAT  1892-02-07  Pg 3 Col. 6


Name of Deceased  Mrs Bernice J. Burgdorf ( Doleac )
Date of Death  1942-02-14
Sex  F
Next of Kin  Louis C. Burgdorf  (husband)
Paper Date Page/Section/Column Lang.
TIMES-PICAYUNE  1942-02-15  Pg 8 Col. 4

Name of Deceased  Mrs Louella Burgdorf ( Stanley )
Date of Death  1919-01-25
Age  34 yrs
Sex  F
Next of Kin  Charles W. Burgdorf  (husband)
Paper Date Page/Section/Column Lang.
TIMES-PICAYUNE  1919-01-26  Pg 2 Col. 7

Name of Deceased  ( Donald Burgtorf )
Date of Death  1926-01-27
Paper Date Page/Section/Column Lang.
TIMES-PICAYUNE  1926-01-29  Pg 2 Col. 7


http://obits.gno.lib.la.us






From: Max Burgdorf <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] Application to emigrate
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:26:51 -0500

Several weeks ago I asked this question but got no response Maybe I will this time around. In the middle 1800's if a native of Hannover appled for a request to emigrate to America, was there a time limit that such authorization was limited to? ie, could someone after getting such authorization emigrate 10 years after the original dated document?
Thanks for any input.
Max
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Re: [HN] RIDDERBUSCH, Karl, * 1932 Recklinghausen

Date: 2006/01/11 09:49:26
From: w.a. ridderbos <w.a.ridderbos(a)xs4all.nl>

Sehr geehrter Herr Albers,

Vieler Dank für die Information betreff Karl Ridderbusch.
Ich hatte allein der Name und Geburtsjahr in die Sammlung.
Mit freundlichem Gruss,
W.A.Ridderbos aus die Niederlande.

----- Original Message ----- From: <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:25 PM
Subject: [HN] RIDDERBUSCH, Karl, * 1932 Recklinghausen


Für Herrn Ridderbos, der nach RIDDERBUSCH suchte:

Es gibt unterschiedlichste Quellen für biographi-sche Informationen, in diesem Falle handelt es um den Text eines Platten-Covers. Die Platte ist nicht im Handel erschienen, weshalb diese Quelle wohl schwer zugänglich ist.

Die Quellenangaben:

100 Jahre Duisburger Sinfoniker. Eine Jubiläumspro-duktion der Stadtsparkasse Duisburg mit den Duis-burger Sinfonikern und Kammersänger Karl Ridder-busch. Aufge-nommen 27. bis 29.Oktober 1977 in Duisburg

Der Cover-Text:

"Karl Ridderbusch, 1932 in Recklinghausen geboren und in Duisburg aufgewachsen, studierte an der Folkwang-Schule in essen, debütierte 1961 in Münster und ist seit 1965 Mitglied der deutschen Oper am Rhein.

Hier startete er vor rd. 10Jahren mit dem Seneca in Monteverdis "Krönung der Poppäa" eine Bilderbuch-karriere, wie sie nur wenigen Künstlern beschieden ist. Seit 1967 zählt er zu den Säulen des Ensembles der Bayreuther Festspiele. 1973 sang er in Bayreuth den Sachs, 1974 bei den Osterfestspielen in Salz-burg. Als Wagner- und Straußsänger gastiert er in den Musikmetropolen der Welt.

Sehr treffend charakterisiert ihn der Journalist Rolf R. Bigler: "So wagnerisch wie er ist kein an-derer Sänger - monumental gewachsen, beinahe 2 Me-ter groß, blond das meistens zerzauste Haupthaar und blond der Bart,die Brust gut 5 Oktaven breit.""

Hoffe es bereichert die Sammlung Ridderbusch

mit freundlichem Gruß

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

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[HN] Brg.Anz. (Was Burgdorf)

Date: 2006/01/11 15:59:01
From: Christiane Nobel <Christiane.Nobel(a)gmx.de>

Brg.Anz. probably means Braunschweigische Anzeigen : offizielles Regierungs-
u. Anzeigeblatt. (official government- and announcementpaper)
The paper was published in Braunschweig from about 1745 until 1923. 

Best regards

Tina Nobel


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[HN] Fallingbostel

Date: 2006/01/11 17:09:06
From: Budler <UBudler(a)gmx.de>

Liebe Liste,
hat jemand einen bezug nach Fallingbostel???
Ich habe hier in verden einen Vorfahren, der ca. 1670 Trompeter bei den
"Cellischen Truppen" war. Leider habe ich seine Heirat, ca. 1684 bisher noch
nicht gefunden. Sein Name lautet AUGUST BODE/BOTHE. Diese August taucht hier
1690 in unserer Gegend plötzlich und unvermutet auf. In allen Personenlisten
aus der Zeit ist kein Bode/Bothe erwähnt, so dass ich vermute, er stammt
nicht aus dem Kirchspiel und angrenzenden Kirchspielen.
Nun fand ich in Verden 1723 eine Heirat einer ILSABE MARGARETHE KNOPEN/KNOP,
welche als "Tochter des Herrn Major Knopen unter den Cellischen Truppen und
nachmals Amtsvogt von Fallingbostel" bezeichnet wird. Vielleicht ist es ein
kleiner Hinweis, dass Bode/Bothe ebenfalls aus Fallingbostel stammt.
Wer kann helfen und in Fallingbostel noch einem August Bode/Bothe ,
geheiratet ca. 1684, sehen?
Vielen Dank
Ulrich Budler



RE: [HN] Hanover-Burgdorf Family

Date: 2006/01/11 20:46:12
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

---- Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com> wrote: 
> Dear Max,
> 
> This homepage seems to indicate that family member married into a Burgdorf 
> family from Barbecke.
> 
> Seine Seite scheint, anzuzeigen, daß ein Familie Mitglied in eine Burgdorf 
> Familie von Barbecke verband.
> 
> http://www.familie-ohlhoff.de
> Dear Barbie
I just sent an email letter to the Ohlhoff address in your email. Because of the date of his birth I have some doubts. Julius died on 29 June 1878 at the age of 53 making his birth yeard 1825. I note your ps re Burchtorf/Burgdorf. How did you contact the gentleman you refer to ?
Max
> http://www.familie-ohlhoff.de/Auswanderung/barbecke.htm
> 
> Has some information in English.  On the main Homepage is an avatar of a 
> mailbox. I believe you can send an email if you click the mailbox.
> 
> Perhaps he may be able to suggest civil or church records to investigate for 
> Julius William Burgdorf.
> 
> Hat etwas Informationen auf englisch. Auf dem Haupthomepage ist ein Avatara 
> eines Briefkastens. Ich glaube, daß Sie ein email senden können, wenn Sie 
> den Briefkasten anklicken.
> 
> Möglicherweise kann er in der LageSEIN, für Julius William, Burgdorf 
> nachzuforschen die Zivil- oder Kircheaufzeichnungen vorzuschlagen.
> 
> Barbie-Lew
> 
> P.S. Contacted very kind and helpful gentleman on Burchtorf/Burgdorf listed 
> in the book:
> 
> Auswandererlisten des ehemaligen Herzogtums Braunschweig 1846-1871
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® 
> Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Re: [HN] Hannover-Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/11 21:24:58
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

---- Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com> wrote: 
> Dear Max,
> 
> This might be interesting...Did you mention your grandfather had a brother 
> named Carl?
> 
> >From Castlegarden.org
> 
> Carl Burgdorf  Occupation Cigar Maker
> Age 32
> Sex M
> Literacy U
> Arrived 7 Sep 1853 *****
> Origin Germany
> Port Bremen
> Last Residence Hildesheim ****
> Destination New York
> Plan Unknown
> Ship Elisabeth
> Passage Unknown
> 
> 
> 
> J.w. Burgdorf  Occupation Clerk
> Age 33
> Sex M
> Literacy U
> Arrived 6 Jan 1860
> Origin Germany
> Port Hamburg
> Last Residence U
> Destination USA
> Plan Unknown
> Ship Oder
> Passage Unknown
> 
> Lucas. Feldhaus  Occupation Farmer
> Age 33
> Sex M
> Literacy U
> Arrived 27 May 1859
> Origin Hanover
> Port Bremen
> Last Residence U
> Destination Missouri
> Plan Unknown
> Ship Adler
> Passage Unknown
> 
> P.S.  About Castlegarden.  Lucas Feldhaus was my grandfather.  I know for a 
> fact that his ship arrived in New Orleans. I viewed the microfilm at the St. 
> Louis County Library SPC.  I think some of the passenger  lists indexed at 
> this site, especially originating from the Port of Bremen may have actually 
> or also stopped at the Port of New Orleans.
> 
> Barbie Lew
> 
> 
> >From: <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>
> >Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> >To: Hannover List <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> >Subject: [HN] Hanover
> >Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 10:19:20 -0800
> >
> >I thank all who responded to my post re the Kingdom of Hanover. I have 
> >printed some of the replies in the event I am succsessful in my search.
> >This is what I am trying to do. I am searching for the birthplace, 
> >baptismal location, etc of my ggrandfather Julis Wilhelm Burgdorf. He 
> >states on a document he attested to in New Orleans that he was born 'in 
> >Hildesheim in Hanover', about 1825. A search by a professional genealogist 
> >in Germany of both Catholic and Evangelical church records in the city of 
> >Hildesheim was fruitless. This researcher told me that Hildesheim can refer 
> >to a 'territory' as well as the city. I understand this to be similar to  a 
> >county or state in the US. and that all towns, villages in that 'territory 
> >are possible targets of my search. It occurs to me that I need access to a 
> >map of the Hildesheim 'territory' so that I can identify them by name. I 
> >then might be able to find a church resouce, like an archdiocese that may 
> >have records. While I think he was evangelical I cannot rule out that he 
> >was Catholic. I have an early 1900s picture of my father holding what 
> >appears to be bible and most obviously prayer beads. Yet the obituary of 
> >his father has a masonic emblem.
> >To be honest I do not know how to proceed. I have looked at a Hildesheim 
> >census records from LDS film, again no luck. Any suggestions will be 
> >greatly appreciated.
> >Max
> >______________________________________________
> >
> >Hannover-L mailing list
> >Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> >http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
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> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


As far as I can determine, Julius does not have a brother named Carl but quite possibly he did. Julius and Marie had a son born 10 Sept 1864 named Carl Gustave Burchdorg. I know the spelling is off but I have been told that Burchtorf is low German spelling for Burgdorf. Also on the birth certificate the mother's name is listed as Mary Kirschberg and the father as Julius Burchtorg. Mary's passport and other documents list her name as Maria Kirschbein.
Your listing for J. W. Burgdorf is the one I am assuming is my g-grandfather. I am still paying attention to other Burgdorfs of that time frame. In fact I found only yesterday a Wilhelm Burgdorf born 1825 and came to New Orleans Dec 1847, ship Robert Patton.
But I believe I already posted this info.
Thanks,  Max

[HN] Hannover-Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/11 22:42:27
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

The Wilhelm Burgdorf found by Barbie-Lew could possibly be my Julius Wilhelm but I have doubts. The birth year is different although close,  1823 v 1825. I will try to follow up. By the way, what is Ictus Solis?
Max Charles Eugene Burchtorff is my grandfather, my namesake, the Max part. There was a son with the same name but he did not use Jr. Carl Gustave was the son of Julius and Mary (Maria) Burgdorf, my great hrandfather. As for David Burgdorf I have no data. There was a Robert, son of Max C. E. Burgdorf who died at about age 30. Bernice Doleac Burgdorf was my Dad's second wife who died quite young. Louella Burgdorf was Uncle Charley's first wife. I have no clue as to Donald but will follow up.
Since before Christmas it was my aim to go to New Orleans and do some more research, reexamining some film at the HNOC library and the main public library. BUT unless you are extremely wealthy, forget about it. I've made many contacts and a couple of places had accommodations but the least expensive was $179 per night. The Monteleon Hotel rates range from $275 to $900. I was told that most of the available rooms are contracted by Fema for displaced people or workers brought in for the recovery project.. Day's Inn, a 2 start motel in Picayune Ms 50 miles from NO has posted rates of $179. I need to get down there to help my sister-in-law through some legal matters resulting from Katrina. So I am still looking.
I thank every one for your extensive help.
Max

[HN] Hannover-Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/12 00:05:04
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

The Wilhelm Burgdorf found by Barbie-Lew could possibly be my Julius Wilhelm but I have doubts. The birth year is different although close,  1823 v 1825. I will try to follow up. By the way, what is Ictus Solis?
Max Charles Eugene Burchtorff is my grandfather, my namesake, the Max part. There was a son with the same name but he did not use Jr. Carl Gustave was the son of Julius and Mary (Maria) Burgdorf, my great hrandfather. As for David Burgdorf I have no data. There was a Robert, son of Max C. E. Burgdorf who died at about age 30. Bernice Doleac Burgdorf was my Dad's second wife who died quite young. Louella Burgdorf was Uncle Charley's first wife. I have no clue as to Donald but will follow up.
Since before Christmas it was my aim to go to New Orleans and do some more research, reexamining some film at the HNOC library and the main public library. BUT unless you are extremely wealthy, forget about it. I've made many contacts and a couple of places had accommodations but the least expensive was $179 per night. The Monteleon Hotel rates range from $275 to $900. I was told that most of the available rooms are contracted by Fema for displaced people or workers brought in for the recovery project.. Day's Inn, a 2 start motel in Picayune Ms 50 miles from NO has posted rates of $179. I need to get down there to help my sister-in-law through some legal matters resulting from Katrina. So I am still looking.
I thank every one for your extensive help.
Max

RE: [HN] Hannover-Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/12 06:14:10
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Dear Max,

Not sure in the Ictus Solis..:)

Might be able to "google" a website out that has glossary of old disease names.

What I found interesting on the hospital data was that it said this Wilhelm had been in New Orleans for 4 years. Perhaps you might find him on a passenger list ,on 1850 and/or later census ', a civil or church record, newspaper mention, obituary, obitury relating to his descendents, and discover a family connection that enables you to discover your German Roots.

Is my theory to explore "possibles" when stuck for information. This Wilhelm appears to share in common to your research the locality of New Orleans, and similar surname. You might get lucky. Or might be another dead end to cross off your list.

There are 15 New Orleans obituary listed for the surname Burgdorf at this site:

http://obits.gno.lib.la.us/scripts/minisa.dll/144/NOPL?LOGONFORM

I just listed a few of the older ones. Might be worth obtaining the obits of the persons that share your surname that you are not familiar with. You might find a little piece of information, like an address or an additional name that will help to complete your quest.


How to order obits:

http://obits.gno.lib.la.us/nopl/orderingobits.htm

Louisiana Division
New Orleans Public Library
219 Loyola Ave.
New Orleans, LA 70112

The charge is $2.00 per obituary. A little expensive when compared to the quarter per St. Louis County Special Collections charges. New Orleans Library system probobly could really use the money. If you order more than one obituary per individual there is only very slight chance that information will vary so they recommend discretion.

My experience is that usually multiple obits for single individual usually are identical but on occassion there are corrections, or a burial location is added.

Sometimes a burial permit is published as well as an obituary.

The burial permits often include cause of death and the address of deceased which helps if obituary doesn't include deceased home address.

Barbie-Lew







From: <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: Hannover List <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] Hannover-Burgdorf
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:42:19 -0800

The Wilhelm Burgdorf found by Barbie-Lew could possibly be my Julius Wilhelm but I have doubts. The birth year is different although close, 1823 v 1825. I will try to follow up. By the way, what is Ictus Solis? Max Charles Eugene Burchtorff is my grandfather, my namesake, the Max part. There was a son with the same name but he did not use Jr. Carl Gustave was the son of Julius and Mary (Maria) Burgdorf, my great hrandfather. As for David Burgdorf I have no data. There was a Robert, son of Max C. E. Burgdorf who died at about age 30. Bernice Doleac Burgdorf was my Dad's second wife who died quite young. Louella Burgdorf was Uncle Charley's first wife. I have no clue as to Donald but will follow up. Since before Christmas it was my aim to go to New Orleans and do some more research, reexamining some film at the HNOC library and the main public library. BUT unless you are extremely wealthy, forget about it. I've made many contacts and a couple of places had accommodations but the least expensive was $179 per night. The Monteleon Hotel rates range from $275 to $900. I was told that most of the available rooms are contracted by Fema for displaced people or workers brought in for the recovery project.. Day's Inn, a 2 start motel in Picayune Ms 50 miles from NO has posted rates of $179. I need to get down there to help my sister-in-law through some legal matters resulting from Katrina. So I am still looking.
I thank every one for your extensive help.
Max
______________________________________________

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RE: [HN] Brg.Anz. (Was Burgdorf)

Date: 2006/01/12 07:06:15
From: Cactus Flower <barbie8674(a)hotmail.com>

Leib Christiane,

Your informative answer is well appreciated and goes to my permant file.
Ihre informative Antwort wird gut geschätzt und geht zu meiner permant Akte.

Your time and patience and that of HannoverL subscribers is also very much appreciated, especially those answers to questions that really make my ignorance apparent. :)

Ihre Zeit und Geduld und die der HannoverL Teilnehmer wird auch sehr, besonders jene Antworten zu den Fragen geschätzt, die wirklich meine Unwissenheit offensichtlich:)


Warmest Regards,
Barbie-Lew


From: "Christiane Nobel" <Christiane.Nobel(a)gmx.de>
Reply-To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] Brg.Anz. (Was Burgdorf)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:58:53 +0100 (MET)

Brg.Anz. probably means Braunschweigische Anzeigen : offizielles Regierungs-
u. Anzeigeblatt. (official government- and announcementpaper)
The paper was published in Braunschweig from about 1745 until 1923.

Best regards

Tina Nobel


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Re: [HN] My families

Date: 2006/01/12 07:41:45
From: Kerry McHugh <kmmchugh(a)comcast.net>

Thanks Barbara,
That was great help!!  I've sent an email onto a potential cousin!!  Sounds like a great place to vacation.
Kerry McHugh Upton



Message: 2
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:14:25 -0700
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] My families
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Message-ID: <BFE9F051.69D5%raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Hello Kerry,

     It's a great picture!  Here's the website:

http://www.ewetel.net/~stefan.remme/

Click on Dohren.  Then click on #2 and there will be a list of names,
including Starmann.  You'll see the picture of the farm by clicking on
"Bilder". There's also a list of email addresses including a Starmann. That may be
helpful for your research.

There is indeed a Groß Dohren southeast of Haselünne.

Barbara


on 1/10/06 10:41 PM, Kerry McHugh at kmmchugh(a)comcast.net wrote:


I am new to the list, just getting back into researching my German families.
I apolgize for writing in English.  My German is very weak.

The families that I am researching are:
HECKENKAMP, John(Johann) Bernard  from Coesfeld  birth 1806
m.  NAGEL, Anna Katherina  birth 1802

HECKENKAMP, Frances(Franz) William  born 1844  Coesfeld
m. KRONER, Mary Ann  birth1834  Herzlake Doren, Hannover

HECKENKAMP, John (Johann) William  born Herzlake, Hannover  birth 1807
m.  STARMANN, Margaretha Angela (first married surname KRONER)  born
1808  Herzlake

Also is there a Grossen Dohren near Haselunne, Hannover?

Does any one know about a website by Dr. Stefan Remme?  I believe that
it is called Zur Geschichte von Dohren im Emsland, or this is the name
of a book.  Can someone please help me out with this.  There is suppose
to be a picture of the STARMANN family farm on it in Grossen Dohren.

Thanks so much for any help,
Kerry McHugh Upton
Olympia WA


[HN] Platenburg aus Thuine, Kirchspiel Freren

Date: 2006/01/12 14:03:01
From: Oliver Bund <ollibund(a)gmx.de>

Hallo Liste,

forscht irgend jemand zufällig in Thuine, Kirchspiel Freren ? Ich würde gerne eine Anfrage weiterleiten zum Namen Platenburg

Es handelt sich um:
Maria Sophia Platenburg, geb 11-4-1831 Thuine,
später nach USA abgezogen.
und Jan Hendrik Platenburg, befor 11-1812 gestorben
 in Thune und seine Ehe Caterina Alida Bunnik. Die beide haetten ein Sohn Bernardus Joannes Pl geb 1755, aber wo weis ich nicht, nach der Niederlande verwandert befor 1791.

Viele Grüße

Heike (Bund)

[HN] Neuvorstellung: v. Schwichel(d/t)

Date: 2006/01/12 15:01:51
From: ViktorHaupt <ViktorHaupt(a)aol.com>

Liebe Listenleser,
 
bisher habe ich meine gesamte Genealogie im Raum Ostpreußen recherchiert.  Im 
letzten Jahr stieß ich auf einen Urahn  Heinrich v.  S c h w i c h  e l (l 
/d/t), der ab 1515 in Ostpreußen nachweisbar ist. Man kann annehmen, daß  
Heinrich von Schwichel(d/t) etwa um 1480-90 in der Region Hildesheim geboren  worden 
sein könnte. In Ostpreußen macht er sich einen Namen als sogn. Büchsen-  und 
Glockengießer.
 
Nun möchte ich diesen Heinrich in die Genealogie der Familie v. Schwicheldt  
einordnen. Ich arbeite mich gerade in die Geschichte des Hochstifts Hildesheim 
 ein. Verschiedene Stammtafeln der Familie habe ich bereits gefunden. Es gibt 
in  der Familie v. Schwicheldt viele Heinrichs, aber bisher paßt keiner so 
recht. 
 
Nun meine Fragen an die Liste: 
 
Kennt jemand die Familie v. Schwicheldt, die seit dem Mittelalter bis in  die 
Neuzeit im Raum Peine/Hildesheim/Goslar eine nicht unbedeutende Rolle  
gespielt hat ?
 
Wer hat sich mit der Geschichte der Region Hildesheim, den dortigen  
Adelsfamilien in der Zeit um 1500 beschäftigt ?
 
Es gibt einen leider nicht ganz eindeutigen Text aus dem Jahr 1515, den man  
so verstehen kann, als sei Heinrich v. Schwichel 1515 von Ostpreußen nach  
Hause zurückgereist um seine Frau/Braut zu holen. Entweder kam diese Braut aus  
einer Familie von Campen oder aus einer Stadt Campen. Beides ist möglich.  Die 
Familie von Campen ist in der Region Hildesheim ebenfalls ansässig gewesen.  
Kennt jemand die Familie von Campen ? Gab es dort vielleicht eine Margareta, 
die  in diese Geschichte passen könnte ?
 
Mir ist bewußt, daß ich hier schon sehr spezielle Fragen stelle und rechne  
nicht damit, daß man mir mal so eben ganz schnell alles beantwortet. Aber jeder 
 kleine Hinweis kann hilfreich sein und meine Recherche vielleicht 
entscheidend  voranbringen. 
 
Grüße aus Berlin  

Viktor Haupt


Re: [HN] Neuvorstellung: v. Schwichel(d/t)

Date: 2006/01/12 15:59:37
From: HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de <HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de>

Sehr geehrter Herr Haupt, eine Vebindung v. Schicheldt/v. Campe ist mir
biher nicht untergekommen. Haben Sie die beidennachstehend genanten
Bücher schon durchgearbeitet
Vogell, F.: Versuch einer Geschlechtsgeschichte des Reichsgräflichen
Hauses von Schwicheldt, Celle 1823 und Steffens, J. H.:
Geschlechts-Geschichte des Hochadelichen Hauses von Campe, Zelle 1783?
Ich glaube nicht, dass ein Glockengießer zur Adelsfamilie von
Schwicheldt gehört. Alles Gute Heinrich
-----Original Message-----
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 15:01:39 +0100
Subject: [HN] Neuvorstellung: v. Schwichel(d/t)
From: ViktorHaupt(a)aol.com
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net

Liebe Listenleser,

bisher habe ich meine gesamte Genealogie im Raum Ostpreußen
recherchiert.  Im 
letzten Jahr stieß ich auf einen Urahn  Heinrich v.  S c h w i c h  e l
(l 
/d/t), der ab 1515 in Ostpreußen nachweisbar ist. Man kann annehmen, daß
 
Heinrich von Schwichel(d/t) etwa um 1480-90 in der Region Hildesheim
geboren  worden 
sein könnte. In Ostpreußen macht er sich einen Namen als sogn. Büchsen-
 und 
Glockengießer.

Nun möchte ich diesen Heinrich in die Genealogie der Familie v.
Schwicheldt  
einordnen. Ich arbeite mich gerade in die Geschichte des Hochstifts
Hildesheim 
ein. Verschiedene Stammtafeln der Familie habe ich bereits gefunden. Es
gibt 
in  der Familie v. Schwicheldt viele Heinrichs, aber bisher paßt keiner
so 
recht. 

Nun meine Fragen an die Liste: 

Kennt jemand die Familie v. Schwicheldt, die seit dem Mittelalter bis in
 die 
Neuzeit im Raum Peine/Hildesheim/Goslar eine nicht unbedeutende Rolle  
gespielt hat ?

Wer hat sich mit der Geschichte der Region Hildesheim, den dortigen  
Adelsfamilien in der Zeit um 1500 beschäftigt ?

Es gibt einen leider nicht ganz eindeutigen Text aus dem Jahr 1515, den
man  
so verstehen kann, als sei Heinrich v. Schwichel 1515 von Ostpreußen
nach  
Hause zurückgereist um seine Frau/Braut zu holen. Entweder kam diese
Braut aus  
einer Familie von Campen oder aus einer Stadt Campen. Beides ist
möglich.  Die 
Familie von Campen ist in der Region Hildesheim ebenfalls ansässig
gewesen.  
Kennt jemand die Familie von Campen ? Gab es dort vielleicht eine
Margareta, 
die  in diese Geschichte passen könnte ?

Mir ist bewußt, daß ich hier schon sehr spezielle Fragen stelle und
rechne  
nicht damit, daß man mir mal so eben ganz schnell alles beantwortet.
Aber jeder 
kleine Hinweis kann hilfreich sein und meine Recherche vielleicht 
entscheidend  voranbringen. 

Grüße aus Berlin  

Viktor Haupt

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l




Re: [HN] Platenburg aus Thuine, Kirchspiel Freren

Date: 2006/01/12 16:48:19
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

Hallo Heike,

das Auswandererbuch aus dem ehemaligem Amt Lingen hat folgenden Eintrag:

Maria Josepha Platenberg, * 11.Apr.1831 in Thuine
ausgewandert 1852 nach Louisville
Eltern:
Heuermann Johann Theodor Strotmann, genannt Platenberg und Helena Catharina Platenberg

Quelle: Sasses Botendienst 1852 / KB Thuine

Zu den anderen Personen ist nichts vermerkt.
Viele Grüße,
Werner Honkomp


> Hallo Liste,

> forscht irgend jemand zufällig in Thuine, Kirchspiel Freren ? Ich würde
> gerne eine Anfrage weiterleiten zum Namen Platenburg

> Es handelt sich um:
> Maria Sophia Platenburg, geb 11-4-1831 Thuine,
> später nach USA abgezogen.
> und Jan Hendrik Platenburg, befor 11-1812 gestorben
>  in Thune und seine Ehe Caterina Alida Bunnik. Die beide haetten ein Sohn
>  Bernardus Joannes Pl geb 1755, aber wo weis ich nicht, nach der
>  Niederlande verwandert befor 1791.

> Viele Grüße

> Heike (Bund)
> ______________________________________________

> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Hannover-Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/12 22:02:26
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Max,

      You were wondering about towns around Hildesheim which may have been
in the "district" of Hildesheim.  Here are the names of some of them that I
can see on the map and that are marked with "Hi" meaning Hildesheim.
     Himmelsthrür
     Sorsum
     Söhre (actually tied to Diekholzen)
     Hildesheimer Wald
     Neuhof
     Ochtersum
     Drispenstedt
     Itzum 
     Achtum-Uppen
     Einum
     Bavenstedt
     Marienburger Höhe
        
      The LDS has films for many of these,  but it seems to be mostly
Catholic records, although there are some Evangelical records with limited
years.  Census records are also listed on some of them.

      Were you ever able to find a naturalization record for Julius?  Often
the application for naturalization will have the exact date of arrival and
other items. 

     What a search you have done already!  You ought to be finding gold
pretty soon!

Good luck!
Barbara
    





on 1/11/06 2:42 PM, pharmaxx(a)charter.net at pharmaxx(a)charter.net wrote:

> The Wilhelm Burgdorf found by Barbie-Lew could possibly be my Julius Wilhelm
> but I have doubts. The birth year is different although close,  1823 v 1825. I
> will try to follow up. By the way, what is Ictus Solis?
> Max Charles Eugene Burchtorff is my grandfather, my namesake, the Max part.
> There was a son with the same name but he did not use Jr. Carl Gustave was the
> son of Julius and Mary (Maria) Burgdorf, my great hrandfather. As for David
> Burgdorf I have no data. There was a Robert, son of Max C. E. Burgdorf who
> died at about age 30. Bernice Doleac Burgdorf was my Dad's second wife who
> died quite young. Louella Burgdorf was Uncle Charley's first wife. I have no
> clue as to Donald but will follow up.
> Since before Christmas it was my aim to go to New Orleans and do some more
> research, reexamining some film at the HNOC library and the main public
> library. BUT unless you are extremely wealthy, forget about it. I've made many
> contacts and a couple of places had accommodations but the least expensive was
> $179 per night. The Monteleon Hotel rates range from $275 to $900. I was told
> that most of the available rooms are contracted by Fema for displaced people
> or workers brought in for the recovery project.. Day's Inn, a 2 start motel in
> Picayune Ms 50 miles from NO has posted rates of $179. I need to get down
> there to help my sister-in-law through some legal matters resulting from
> Katrina. So I am still looking.
> I thank every one for your extensive help.
> Max
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Hannover-Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/13 03:55:47
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

---- R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net> wrote: 
> Hello Max,
> 
>       You were wondering about towns around Hildesheim which may have been
> in the "district" of Hildesheim.  Here are the names of some of them that I
> can see on the map and that are marked with "Hi" meaning Hildesheim.
>      Himmelsthrür
>      Sorsum
>      Söhre (actually tied to Diekholzen)
>      Hildesheimer Wald
>      Neuhof
>      Ochtersum
>      Drispenstedt

>      Itzum 
>      Achtum-Uppen
>      Einum
>      Bavenstedt
>      Marienburger Höhe
>         
>       The LDS has films for many of these,  but it seems to be mostly
> Catholic records, although there are some Evangelical records with limited
> years.  Census records are also listed on some of them.
> 
>       Were you ever able to find a naturalization record for Julius?  Often
> the application for naturalization will have the exact date of arrival and
> other items. 
> 
>      What a search you have done already!  You ought to be finding gold
> pretty soon!

> 
> Good luck!
> Barbara
>     
> Thank you so much for the list of the towns and villages near Hildesheim. I will concentrate on those towns using resources at the local LDS library.
   According to information I have, Julius was never naturalized. 
> Thanks,  Max
> 
> 
> 
> on 1/11/06 2:42 PM, pharmaxx(a)charter.net at pharmaxx(a)charter.net wrote:
> 
> > The Wilhelm Burgdorf found by Barbie-Lew could possibly be my Julius Wilhelm
> > but I have doubts. The birth year is different although close,  1823 v 1825. I
> > will try to follow up. By the way, what is Ictus Solis?
> > Max Charles Eugene Burchtorff is my grandfather, my namesake, the Max part.
> > There was a son with the same name but he did not use Jr. Carl Gustave was the
> > son of Julius and Mary (Maria) Burgdorf, my great hrandfather. As for David
> > Burgdorf I have no data. There was a Robert, son of Max C. E. Burgdorf who
> > died at about age 30. Bernice Doleac Burgdorf was my Dad's second wife who
> > died quite young. Louella Burgdorf was Uncle Charley's first wife. I have no
> > clue as to Donald but will follow up.
> > Since before Christmas it was my aim to go to New Orleans and do some more
> > research, reexamining some film at the HNOC library and the main public
> > library. BUT unless you are extremely wealthy, forget about it. I've made many
> > contacts and a couple of places had accommodations but the least expensive was
> > $179 per night. The Monteleon Hotel rates range from $275 to $900. I was told
> > that most of the available rooms are contracted by Fema for displaced people
> > or workers brought in for the recovery project.. Day's Inn, a 2 start motel in
> > Picayune Ms 50 miles from NO has posted rates of $179. I need to get down
> > there to help my sister-in-law through some legal matters resulting from
> > Katrina. So I am still looking.
> > I thank every one for your extensive help.
> > Max
> > ______________________________________________
> > 
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

[HN] Ictus solis

Date: 2006/01/13 04:34:36
From: Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>

To Max and others:  Ictus solis is Latin for sunstroke.     Jane


Jane Swan
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

Re: [HN] German American internment camps

Date: 2006/01/13 07:19:46
From: bobbidoll <bobbidoll(a)myway.com>


I'm sorry to get back so late to you.  I haven't been able to get to
my e-mail.  I am not sure of the details.  Google seems to do a decent job....  I am trying to get specifics.  If and when I get them, I will get back to you on the subject.

Bobbi 


 --- On Tue 01/03, Patricia Knight < pknight1(a)fidnet.com > wrote:
From: Patricia Knight [mailto: pknight1(a)fidnet.com]
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 09:00:28 -0600
Subject: Re: [HN] German American internment camps

Thank you, William! I have gone to the site and read the article and apparently, Italians were in these camps, too! Would you know if, Mr. Heitmann has finished his book or research? I have seen the POW camps at Jefferson Barracks.These were for captured German soldiers. I wonder if, anyone would know, how the government decided which German/s to send to these camps. My German family seemed to do pretty well , here. Of course, four of my uncles were in the war...one on the USS Saratoga and wounded and the other<br>in the Battle of the Bulge and Normandy.  My grandmother fought like hell to keep one in the states and the fourth was only 15 and she got him out...he later joined the Marines and served when he was older. Maybe, this was the difference...don't know ...just wondered how and where they chose to arrest or detain these German/s and/or families. If true,   sad , sad, sad.   I suppose much like today's worries over homeland security and all. Maybe, years down the road 
the Arabs will be demanding and apology???? Thanks again Pat

----- Original Message -----<br>From: "William Taber" <willgen(a)mac.com>To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>Cc: "Patricia Knight" <pknight1(a)fidnet.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:43 AM Subject: [HN] German American internment camps 

Pat, Do a Google search for German American internment camps http://www.google.com/search?hs=tpj&q=german+american+internment+camps 
Will Taber 

"Patricia Knight" <pknight1(a)fidnet.com> 
Subject: Re: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43 To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net> Message-ID: <023701c6101f$cf192500$d18efb40(a)default><br>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Bobbi When and where ...were these camps that you speak of???? Thanks Pat


----- Original Message -----

From: "bobbidoll" <bobbidoll(a)myway.com><br>> >To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net><br>> >Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:31 AM<br>> >Subject: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43 

 --- On Tue 12/27, jo meyer < gutenmorgen(a)mail.com > wrote:  Some maybe got it bad and others not as much. It may have helped those who lived in the same area to be together sharing the  pain. However , at least it did not get as bad as being sent to camps like the japanese.  

I beg to differ.  Some German-Americans were sent to camps just as the Japanese were.  There weren't as many, but never the less some were.  The German-American community had asked for an apology from the US government.  Bobbi

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way  your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com



Re: [HN] German American internment camps

Date: 2006/01/13 10:13:11
From: krumbar <krumbar(a)comcast.net>

There also were German POW camps in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and the Allen County Public Library has information regarding them. Much has been written over the years by families who befriended the detainees, cooked favorite German foods for them for holidays, etc. I just don't know if you would find it all in one place. Probably not. Many long-term friendships were established, and some of the detainees returned to this area with their families when it was all over.

--
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~loretta

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "bobbidoll" <bobbidoll(a)myway.com> 

> 
> 
> I'm sorry to get back so late to you. I haven't been able to get to 
> my e-mail. I am not sure of the details. Google seems to do a decent job.... 
> I am trying to get specifics. If and when I get them, I will get back to you on 
> the subject. 
> 
> Bobbi 
> 
> 
> --- On Tue 01/03, Patricia Knight < pknight1(a)fidnet.com > wrote: 
> From: Patricia Knight [mailto: pknight1(a)fidnet.com] 
> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net 
> Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 09:00:28 -0600 
> Subject: Re: [HN] German American internment camps 
> 
> Thank you, William! I have gone to the site and read the article and apparently, 
> Italians were in these camps, too! Would you know if, Mr. Heitmann has finished 
> his book or research? I have seen the POW camps at Jefferson Barracks.These were 
> for captured German soldiers. I wonder if, anyone would know, how the government 
> decided which German/s to send to these camps. My German family seemed to do 
> pretty well , here. Of course, four of my uncles were in the war...one on the 
> USS Saratoga and wounded and the other
in the Battle of the Bulge and 
> Normandy. My grandmother fought like hell to keep one in the states and the 
> fourth was only 15 and she got him out...he later joined the Marines and served 
> when he was older. Maybe, this was the difference...don't know ...just wondered 
> how and where they chose to arrest or detain these German/s and/or families. If 
> true, sad , sad, sad. I suppose much like today's worries over homeland 
> security and all. Maybe, years down the road 
> the Arabs will be demanding and apology???? Thanks again Pat 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
From: "William Taber" To: 
> Cc: "Patricia Knight" Sent: 
> Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:43 AM Subject: [HN] German American internment camps 
> 
> Pat, Do a Google search for German American internment camps 
> http://www.google.com/search?hs=tpj&q=german+american+internment+camps 
> Will Taber 
> 
> "Patricia Knight" 
> Subject: Re: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43 To: 
> "Hannover-L" Message-ID: 
> <023701c6101f$cf192500$d18efb40(a)default>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; 
> charset="iso-8859-1" 
> 
> Bobbi When and where ...were these camps that you speak of???? Thanks Pat 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> From: "bobbidoll" 
> >To: 
> 
> >Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:31 AM
> 
> >Subject: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43 
> 
> --- On Tue 12/27, jo meyer < gutenmorgen(a)mail.com > wrote: Some maybe got it 
> bad and others not as much. It may have helped those who lived in the same area 
> to be together sharing the pain. However , at least it did not get as bad as 
> being sent to camps like the japanese. 
> 
> I beg to differ. Some German-Americans were sent to camps just as the Japanese 
> were. There weren't as many, but never the less some were. The German-American 
> community had asked for an apology from the US government. Bobbi 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. 
> Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________ 
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list 
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

Re: [HN] German American internment camps

Date: 2006/01/13 10:13:17
From: krumbar <krumbar(a)comcast.net>

There also were German POW camps in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and the Allen County Public Library has information regarding them. Much has been written over the years by families who befriended the detainees, cooked favorite German foods for them for holidays, etc. I just don't know if you would find it all in one place. Probably not. Many long-term friendships were established, and some of the detainees returned to this area with their families when it was all over.

--
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~loretta

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "bobbidoll" <bobbidoll(a)myway.com> 

> 
> 
> I'm sorry to get back so late to you. I haven't been able to get to 
> my e-mail. I am not sure of the details. Google seems to do a decent job.... 
> I am trying to get specifics. If and when I get them, I will get back to you on 
> the subject. 
> 
> Bobbi 
> 
> 
> --- On Tue 01/03, Patricia Knight < pknight1(a)fidnet.com > wrote: 
> From: Patricia Knight [mailto: pknight1(a)fidnet.com] 
> To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net 
> Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 09:00:28 -0600 
> Subject: Re: [HN] German American internment camps 
> 
> Thank you, William! I have gone to the site and read the article and apparently, 
> Italians were in these camps, too! Would you know if, Mr. Heitmann has finished 
> his book or research? I have seen the POW camps at Jefferson Barracks.These were 
> for captured German soldiers. I wonder if, anyone would know, how the government 
> decided which German/s to send to these camps. My German family seemed to do 
> pretty well , here. Of course, four of my uncles were in the war...one on the 
> USS Saratoga and wounded and the other
in the Battle of the Bulge and 
> Normandy. My grandmother fought like hell to keep one in the states and the 
> fourth was only 15 and she got him out...he later joined the Marines and served 
> when he was older. Maybe, this was the difference...don't know ...just wondered 
> how and where they chose to arrest or detain these German/s and/or families. If 
> true, sad , sad, sad. I suppose much like today's worries over homeland 
> security and all. Maybe, years down the road 
> the Arabs will be demanding and apology???? Thanks again Pat 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
From: "William Taber" To: 
> Cc: "Patricia Knight" Sent: 
> Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:43 AM Subject: [HN] German American internment camps 
> 
> Pat, Do a Google search for German American internment camps 
> http://www.google.com/search?hs=tpj&q=german+american+internment+camps 
> Will Taber 
> 
> "Patricia Knight" 
> Subject: Re: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43 To: 
> "Hannover-L" Message-ID: 
> <023701c6101f$cf192500$d18efb40(a)default>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; 
> charset="iso-8859-1" 
> 
> Bobbi When and where ...were these camps that you speak of???? Thanks Pat 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> From: "bobbidoll" 
> >To: 
> 
> >Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:31 AM
> 
> >Subject: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43 
> 
> --- On Tue 12/27, jo meyer < gutenmorgen(a)mail.com > wrote: Some maybe got it 
> bad and others not as much. It may have helped those who lived in the same area 
> to be together sharing the pain. However , at least it did not get as bad as 
> being sent to camps like the japanese. 
> 
> I beg to differ. Some German-Americans were sent to camps just as the Japanese 
> were. There weren't as many, but never the less some were. The German-American 
> community had asked for an apology from the US government. Bobbi 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. 
> Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________ 
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list 
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

Re: [HN] German American internment camps

Date: 2006/01/13 11:09:45
From: Beardjf <Beardjf(a)aol.com>

German POWs were also housed at Fort Robinson, Nebraska.
 
Gary Beard

[HN] v. Schwichel(d/t)

Date: 2006/01/13 12:23:50
From: ViktorHaupt <ViktorHaupt(a)aol.com>

Guten Tag Heinrich Munk,
herzlichen Dank für Ihre Hinweise. Ich habe auch Zweifel an der Verbindung  
"meines" Heinrich von Schwichell (so steht es in den  Ostpreußischen Folianten 
1515, 1516) mit der Familie von Schwicheldt. Ein  "Handwerker" in einer 
Adelsfamilie ist schon seltsam. Aber ich muß erst einmal  jedem Hinweis, jeder 
möglichen Spur folgen. 
 
Das Buch von Vogell habe ich gerade in Arbeit. Gestern fand ich auf  Seite 
174 den Hinweis:
"Am Tage Simonis und Judä 1507 lieh der Herzog (Heinrich der Jüngere  von 
Braunschweig-Lüneburg) anderweit 1200 Rfl. von ihm (Conrad von  Schwicheldt) und 
räumte ihm dafür das Schloß Kampen zum nutznießlichen  Unterpfande ein."
 
Damit hat sich meine kühne Vermutung hinsichtlich einer Verbindung  
v.Campe(n) und v.Schwicheldt wohl erledigt.
 
Die Indizien scheinen jedoch einen Zusammenhang von Heinrich von  Schwichell 
mit der Familie v. Schwicheldt nahezulegen. Wenn das Schloß  Kampen 1515 noch 
im Besitz der Familie v. Schwicheldt war, bekommt der Eintrag  im 
Ostpreußischen Folianten 1515 eine klarere Bedeutung. Dort heißt es zwar im  Zusammenhang 
mit einem Paßbrief "nach der stadt Campenn", was mich schon auf die  Idee 
brachte, an Campen in Holland zu denken. Aber mit dem Hinweis auf das  Schloß 
Kampen wird die Suchrichtung deutlicher.
 
Grüße aus Berlin  

Viktor Haupt


[HN] (kein Betreff)

Date: 2006/01/13 14:38:47
From: Joerg Baten <joerg.baten(a)uni-tuebingen.de>

Sehr geehrte Genealoginnen und Genealogen,
In unserer Forschungsgruppe an der Universität Tübingen sammeln wir eine 
große Menge an “libri status animarum” und “Seelenverzeichnissen” aus dem 17. 
und 18. Jahrhundert aus verschiedenen Ländern. Wir untersuchen mit 
statistischen Mitteln die Altersangaben dieser Listen mit der folgenden 
Fragestellung: Wurde ein rundes Alter wie 20, 25, 60 Jahre etc. sehr viel 
häufiger genannt als z.B. 21, 24, 26 Jahre? In vielen Datensätzen des 19. und 
20. Jahrhunderts konnte eine enge Beziehung zwischen dem Runden von 
Altersangaben und dem Grad der Lese- und Schreibfähigkeit gefunden, so dass 
wir hoffen, auf diesem Weg wichtige Informationen über den Bildungsstand 
unserer Vorfahren zu gewinnen. Wenn Sie Listen mit Altersangaben haben, dann 
senden Sie mir doch bitte diese in jeglichem Format als email-attachment zu. 
Andere Hinweise, wie etwa Archivsignaturen, Namen von Genealogen, die viele 
Daten gesammelt haben, sind auch sehr willkommen.
Beste Grüße
Prof. Dr. Jörg Baten, Professor für Wirtschaftsgeschichte und Dekan der 
Wirtschaftswissenschaftlichen Fakultät, Eberhard Karls Universität Tübingen


-- 
--------------------------------
Joerg Baten
Professor of Economic History
Dept. Economics/Univ. Tuebingen
Mohlstr. 36
D-72074 Tuebingen



Re: [HN] Ictus solis

Date: 2006/01/13 16:07:47
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

---- Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net> wrote: 
> To Max and others:  Ictus solis is Latin for sunstroke.     Jane
> 
> 
> Jane Swan
> jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
> Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Thanks Jane
I looked it up in Webster's anf found that Ictus was stroke but did not find Ictus Solus. Should have known - sol/sun. Very possible in New Orleans summers.
Max

Re: [HN] German American internment camps - POW Camps

Date: 2006/01/13 16:32:44
From: LMPauling <lmpauling(a)utech.net>

I have in my library the book "German Prisoners of War at Camp Cooke, California, Personal Accounts, 1944-1946" by Jeffrey E. Geiger. Camp Cooke is today Vandenberg Air Force Base near Lompoc, CA. This book is indexed and I would be willing to look up any names you think may have been here.
Linda Pauling in Lompoc, CA



German POWs were also housed at Fort Robinson, Nebraska.

Gary Beard



Re: [HN] German American internment camps - POW Camps

Date: 2006/01/13 17:32:16
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

---- LMPauling <lmpauling(a)utech.net> wrote: 
> I have in my library the book "German Prisoners of War at Camp Cooke, 
> California, Personal Accounts, 1944-1946" by Jeffrey E. Geiger. Camp Cooke 
> is today Vandenberg Air Force Base near Lompoc, CA. This book is indexed and 
> I would be willing to look up any names you think may have been here.
> Linda Pauling in Lompoc, CA
> 
> 
> 
> > German POWs were also housed at Fort Robinson, Nebraska.
> >

There must have been a lot of POWs spread over the US. There was one also on the lakefront in New Orleans, La. And I recall that in the mess hall at the Philly Naval Air Station there were guys in jump suits with POW stenciled on their back. I was visiting a fellow Navy Corpman there and am not sure as to the number and country of these POWs. My observation was that American prisoners (AWOL and other offenses) were under heavier Marine guard than the POWs. Max
> > Gary Beard
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Re: [HN] German American internment camps

Date: 2006/01/13 20:35:41
From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>

Some German prisoners were housed at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri.
Reportedly, some were Afrika Corps prisoners.

The story is that they had an option to work in the laundry for a little
pay. No few 'escaped' to the local Bierstube, and were regularly rounded up.

I am suspicious of the story, at least in part. The early part of the story
is that at first Italian prisoners were housed at Fort Wood, but they were
fairly few in number, so they were moved out and Germans moved in.

As I understand, the only Afrika Corps prisoners were taken by the British.
When? 1942? Early 1943? Well, how did we get Italian prisoners before then?

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Beardjf(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 4:09 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] German American internment camps


> German POWs were also housed at Fort Robinson, Nebraska.
>
> Gary Beard
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>



Re: [HN] German American internment camps

Date: 2006/01/13 20:44:01
From: Don E. Schaefer <dschaefe(a)uark.edu>

There was a German POW camp in Jonesboro, Arkansas, and some of them were Afrika Corps.

Don Schaefer


Some German prisoners were housed at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri.
Reportedly, some were Afrika Corps prisoners.

The story is that they had an option to work in the laundry for a little
pay. No few 'escaped' to the local Bierstube, and were regularly rounded up.

I am suspicious of the story, at least in part. The early part of the story
is that at first Italian prisoners were housed at Fort Wood, but they were
fairly few in number, so they were moved out and Germans moved in.

As I understand, the only Afrika Corps prisoners were taken by the British.
When? 1942? Early 1943? Well, how did we get Italian prisoners before then?

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



----- Original Message -----
From: <Beardjf(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 4:09 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] German American internment camps


 German POWs were also housed at Fort Robinson, Nebraska.

 Gary Beard
 ______________________________________________

 Hannover-L mailing list
 Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
 http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l




______________________________________________

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Re: [HN] German American internment camps

Date: 2006/01/13 21:02:39
From: Jim <jimcats(a)earthlink.net>

If I remember correctly the Italians were in North Africa before the Germans
got there so it would make sense that they were the first prisoners to be
taken.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Doerr" <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] German American internment camps


> Some German prisoners were housed at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri.
> Reportedly, some were Afrika Corps prisoners.
>
> The story is that they had an option to work in the laundry for a little
> pay. No few 'escaped' to the local Bierstube, and were regularly rounded
up.
>
> I am suspicious of the story, at least in part. The early part of the
story
> is that at first Italian prisoners were housed at Fort Wood, but they were
> fairly few in number, so they were moved out and Germans moved in.
>
> As I understand, the only Afrika Corps prisoners were taken by the
British.
> When? 1942? Early 1943? Well, how did we get Italian prisoners before
then?
>
> Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Beardjf(a)aol.com>
> To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 4:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [HN] German American internment camps
>
>
> > German POWs were also housed at Fort Robinson, Nebraska.
> >
> > Gary Beard
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> >
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] German American internment camps

Date: 2006/01/13 21:22:33
From: Bob Doerr <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>

I did not know that the British sent any Italians here.

Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim" <jimcats(a)earthlink.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 1997 3:41 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] German American internment camps


> If I remember correctly the Italians were in North Africa before the
Germans
> got there so it would make sense that they were the first prisoners to be
> taken.
> Jim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Doerr" <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>
> To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [HN] German American internment camps
>
>
> > Some German prisoners were housed at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri.
> > Reportedly, some were Afrika Corps prisoners.
> >
> > The story is that they had an option to work in the laundry for a little
> > pay. No few 'escaped' to the local Bierstube, and were regularly rounded
> up.
> >
> > I am suspicious of the story, at least in part. The early part of the
> story
> > is that at first Italian prisoners were housed at Fort Wood, but they
were
> > fairly few in number, so they were moved out and Germans moved in.
> >
> > As I understand, the only Afrika Corps prisoners were taken by the
> British.
> > When? 1942? Early 1943? Well, how did we get Italian prisoners before
> then?
> >
> > Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Beardjf(a)aol.com>
> > To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 4:09 AM
> > Subject: Re: [HN] German American internment camps
> >
> >
> > > German POWs were also housed at Fort Robinson, Nebraska.
> > >
> > > Gary Beard
> > > ______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Hannover-L mailing list
> > > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>



Re: [HN] German American internment camps

Date: 2006/01/13 21:38:08
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

This thread took a curious, albeit interesting, turn. The initial thrust of it related to German aliens and German Americans interned in American camps during WWII. Somehow it wound its way into German POW camps in the US, which is an interesting subject unto itself.

Back to the initial thrust though. During WWII, the U.S. Government interned at least 11,000 persons of German ancestry. By law, only “enemy aliens” could be interned; however, with governmental approval, their family members frequently joined them in the camps. Many such “voluntarily” interned spouses and children were American citizens. Pressured by the United States, Latin American governments collectively arrested at least 4,000 German Latin Americans (presumably included in this larger number). Most were shipped by boat to the United States and interned in these same camps. At least 2,000 Germans, German Americans and Latin American internees were later exchanged for Americans and Latin Americans held by the Third Reich in Germany.

There were also roughly 3000 Italians interred as "enemy aliens", and likewise nearly 17,000 Japanese. As is much better known and documented, over 110,000 Japanese Americans were rounded up and interred in camps along the West coast during WWII.

Something interesting here on the choice of terminology as “enemy aliens” for such internees (as was the case also in WWI). It actually dates back to post colonial times:

Selective Internment. Pursuant to the Alien Enemy Act of 1798 (50 U.S.C 21-24), which remains in effect today, the U.S. may apprehend, intern and otherwise restrict the freedom of “alien enemies” upon declaration of war or actual, attempted or threatened invasion by a foreign nation.

For more on German-American internees in the United States during WWII, here is a good starting point and overview ~
http://www.traces.org/germaninternees.html

Jb

----- Original Message -----

From: "bobbidoll" <bobbidoll(a)myway.com
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:31 AM
Subject: [HN] Re: Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 25, Eintrag 43

--- On Tue 12/27, jo meyer < gutenmorgen(a)mail.com > wrote:
Some maybe got it bad and others not as much. It may have helped those who lived in the same area to be together sharing the pain. However , at least it did not get as bad as being sent to camps like the japanese.

I beg to differ. Some German-Americans were sent to camps just as the Japanese were. There weren't as many, but never the less some were. The German-American community had asked for an apology from the US government. Bobbi

_________________________________________________________________
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Re: [HN] German American internment camps PS

Date: 2006/01/13 21:48:04
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Jb wrote:
There were also roughly 3000 Italians interred as "enemy aliens", and likewise nearly 17,000 Japanese. As is much better known and documented, over 110,000 Japanese Americans were rounded up and interred in camps along the West coast during WWII.

Correction: INTERNED as opposed to INTERRED of course. Got my mind on digging up too many 'old bones' it seems (one thing to which we all can relate). ;)

Jb

_________________________________________________________________
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[HN] German Prison of war camp

Date: 2006/01/13 22:03:40
From: Bob Marhenke <bobmarval(a)juno.com>

There was a German Prison of War camp at Hebron Nebraska in the old CCC
Barracks.  We used them for help on our farm putting up hay.  $8.00 a day
for four prisoners and a guard and you picked them up and returned them
if I remember correctly.  In later years they didn't even send the guard
along.  Some returned after the war and married in the area.---Bob

Re: [HN] German Prison of war camp

Date: 2006/01/14 00:55:55
From: Gary Stoltman <stopan(a)optonline.net>

<<Some returned after the war and married in the area>>

Hi Bob

My grandfather was from Nebraska and I remember him telling this. Do you have any examples? Thanks

Gary Stoltman
Mercerville, NJ


----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Marhenke" <bobmarval(a)juno.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 4:01 PM
Subject: [HN] German Prison of war camp


There was a German Prison of War camp at Hebron Nebraska in the old CCC
Barracks.  We used them for help on our farm putting up hay.  $8.00 a day
for four prisoners and a guard and you picked them up and returned them
if I remember correctly.  In later years they didn't even send the guard
along.  Some returned after the war and married in the area.---Bob
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] German Prison of war camp

Date: 2006/01/14 01:41:18
From: Bob Marhenke <bobmarval(a)juno.com>

Gary,

I did a little calling around to try and answer your question with a
little results.  I talked with one person whos parents had these
prisoners help with farm work several times.  One of the prisoners was a
craftsman and made he and his sister a "Scarf Holder" as he called it
with there initials carved in it.  It was carved from some hardwood. In
addition the prisoner also made his mother a jewelry box carved from
Limestone with her initials in it.  They still have these items and both
are beautiful.  ("The fact they were carvings suggests to me the must
have trusted him with a knife")  

!!!He also knew of one Prisoner who returned and married a girl from
nearby Deshler Nebraska.

  My brother remembers one prisoner stating if he could get his wife over
here, he would not return. I remember them working hard but not knowing
how to work and my father trying to teach them. I also remember they
wanted to get out of camp and do farm work.

 I live in Lincoln, most of a 100 miles from the area and have for many
years so I have lost contact with anyone in the area that could give more
specifics. It is my feeling they were treated good.---Bob 


On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:55:49 -0500 Gary Stoltman <stopan(a)optonline.net>
writes:
> <<Some returned after the war and married in the area>>
> 
> Hi Bob
> 
> My grandfather was from Nebraska and I remember him telling this. Do 
> you 
> have any examples? Thanks
> 
> Gary Stoltman
> Mercerville, NJ
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bob Marhenke" <bobmarval(a)juno.com>
> To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 4:01 PM
> Subject: [HN] German Prison of war camp
> 
> 
> > There was a German Prison of War camp at Hebron Nebraska in the 
> old CCC
> > Barracks.  We used them for help on our farm putting up hay.  
> $8.00 a day
> > for four prisoners and a guard and you picked them up and returned 
> them
> > if I remember correctly.  In later years they didn't even send the 
> guard
> > along.  Some returned after the war and married in the 
> area.---Bob
> > ______________________________________________
> >
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 

[HN] Re: Hannover-- meyer

Date: 2006/01/14 04:12:22
From: jo meyer <gutenmorgen(a)mail.com>

  Have you noticed opn some census it asks if you own or have a radio?

  This one is for any one who has family and  Luhman /Meyer in Goodhue
  county mn.

  I found this one while searching family search.org[ morman church] I
  hope to read . try and Order them soon. I am pretty sure that the
  Luhman one pertains to the Jonas tree at www.dahlenburg.de.

  the other one pertains to a tree I found earlier The Meyer had
  marriages at church Nahrendorf and pertained to surrounding villages.

   I hope it can help anyone besides muself. and if anyone thinks they
  have family on these trees, I'd be grateful for the sharing. the one 
  Of Reedsburg wi.i had tried to contact the person, but she never
  wrote back. some one else mentioned possible moving of these Meyer to
  Nebraska and Ks. And i did identify some of them on census. Other
  names were Streeter and Riley. I wondered where they came from. In my
  past history the name Teresa is not coman name.to me it suggest
  catholic-  english, irish or french background other than my small 
  Luneburg/ Bleckede/Gohrde area of germany. I saw the name Edward too,
  If memory serves me right. And George!? Hermann is german to me.

  Just sharing.

  Title Family tree of Jacob and Metta Stehr and John and Metta Luhman

  Notes Microreproduction of typescript copy (39 p.). Loaned by Henry
  Meyer; Orem, Ut.

  --------------------------------------------------------------------

  Includes Stehr, Quast, Sprikes, Lindeman, Reckman, Luhman,
  Borgschatz, Meyer, Lohmeyer, and related families.

  --------------------------------------------------------------------

  Page 28 missing in original materiel and film copy.

  --------------------------------------------------------------------

  Jacob and Metta Quast Stehr immigrated from Germany in 1867 to
  Minnesota while John and Metta Luhman immigrated in 1872. Some of
  each of these couple's descendants have married each other. These
  descendants as well as other descendants of both couples are included
  in this volume .

  --------------------------------------------------------------------

  Original copy was missing page 27, it may have contained Metta
  Luhman's maiden name and the names of her oldest children.

  Subjects Stehr
  Luhman
  Quast
  Meyer
  Borgschatz

  Format Books/Monographs (On Film)
  Language English
  Publication Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmed by the Genealogical Society
  of Utah, 1987
  Physical on 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm.

  This Henry Meyer also was author to another  one.

  Title Information taken from Sauk County of Wisconsin on the Meyer
  surname and colateral lines
  Authors Meyer, HenryJr (Main Author)

  Notes Microreproduction of photocopied vital and genealogical records
  (6 v. app. 700 sheets, gen. tables,). Loaned by Henry Meyer; Orem,
  Utah.

  --------------------------------------------------------------------

  Includes Meyer, Prange, Behn, Hahn, Thies, Hamburg, and Hillmer
  families

  --------------------------------------------------------------------

  Contains information of the Meyers lines living in Sauk County,
  Wisconsin including listings of births, marriages, and deaths, copies
  of obituaries, short histories and family group sheets.

  Subjects Meyer
  Behn
  Thies
  Hahn
  Prange

  Format Books/Monographs (On Film)
  Language English
  Publication Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmed by the Genealogical Society
  of Utah, 1987
  Physical on 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm.


  _________________________________________________________________

-- 
___________________________________________________
Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/


[HN] Familien LOß/VÖLLING/FEHLIG

Date: 2006/01/14 11:53:57
From: Thomas . Stryczek <Thomas.Stryczek(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Ihr Lieben ! 

Ich bin allem interessiert, was diese Familiennamen betrifft. 

Bei den Familien LOß/FEHLIG forsche ich vor allem in und um Gandersheim/Störy/Seesen/Bornum. 

Bei der Familie VÖLLING vor allem in Steinwedel. 

Ganz liebe Grüße 

Thomas Stryczek

Re: [HN] - to Jim

Date: 2006/01/14 18:28:57
From: Mona <HeritageHunt(a)Sandyview.info>

Jim,
Your message, in answer to Bob's (dated Jan 13, 2006) was dated January 2, 1997.

Either you are a psychic or you need to change your computer settings. :-)

Mona


Jim wrote:
If I remember correctly the Italians were in North Africa before the Germans
got there so it would make sense that they were the first prisoners to be
taken.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Doerr" <bdoerr(a)msm.umr.edu>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] German American internment camps



--
Mona Houser
HeritageHunt(a)sandyview.info
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/

[HN] Angeheirateten Ritterbusch-Ridderbusch 1-2006.

Date: 2006/01/14 19:19:47
From: w.a. ridderbos <w.a.ridderbos(a)xs4all.nl>

ANGEHEIRATETEN RITTERBUSCH-RIDDERBUSCH HAUPTSACHLICH IM GEBIET HANNOVER-AERZEN-KIRCHBRAK-LIPPE:        

(Weitere information: w.a.ridderbos(a)xs4all.nl).

 

Abel, Kirchbrak / Albrink, Aerzen / Alsweh, Kirchbrak / Althof, Alverdissen / Amenas, Aerzen / Angermann, Reher / Arens, Kleinenmarpe / August, Bösingfeld / Bade, Ottenstein / Bartels, Alverdissen / Barthold, Kirchbrak / Becker, Kirchbrak / Beckmann, Kirchohsen / Beesemann, Oesdorf / Begemann, Wendlinghausen / Behrmann, Aerzen / Benecke, Hannover-Lippe / Berghahn, Blomberg / Bergheim, Wremen / Bernstädt, Leipzig / Betke, Gellersen / Biesemeyer, Griessem / Bilstein, Barntrup / Binker, Gellersen / Bisemeyer, Egge / Blome, Bega / Bode, Kirchbrak / Bödecker, Barntrup / Böger, Brake / Böhmer, Sonneborn / Böhny, Kirchbrak / Böker, Ilsabey / Borchers, Aerzen / Borchling, Hannover / Bornemann, Kirchbrak / Boyer, Hildesheim / Brackmeyer, Lemgo / Brandt, Böingfeld-Oesdorfes, Bega / Brehmeyer, Egge / Brenneker, Gellersen / Brinkmann, Lichtenhagen / Brockmann, Kirchbrak / Brokhausen, Bösingfeld / Bruns, Hannover / Brunsen, Stade / Bucke, Aerzen / Bungenstock, Hameln-Kirchohsen / Bunte, Blomberg / Busch, Hannover / Buschbaum, Blückeburg / Canaries, Wremen / Comarens, Bremerhaven / Cormelius, Reepsholt / Crudups, Breitenkamp / Daues, Kirchbrak / Dedekind, Afferde-Pattensen / Delzig, Donop / Deppen, Griessem-Bösingfeld / Dickmann, Detmold / Dohmen, Bösingfeld / Dölling, Elmshorn / Dölmes, Kirchbrak / Dörries, Kirchbrak / Draken, Hillentrup / Drawen, Bösingfeld / Dreckes, Sonneborn / Dreve, Aerzen / Druenert, Bösingfeld / Drüge, Hohenhausen / Drüner, Barntrup / Dubbert, Ludenhausen / Eckhard, Hannover / Eckmeyer, Wendlinghausen / Engelke, Kirchbrak / Falke, Kirchohsen / Fass, Wiesederfehn / Fassen, Bega, Oesdorf / Fedemann, Bremen / Feger, Hillentrup / Fehrmann, Oesdorf / Finken, Erdbruch, Oesdorf, Blomberg / Fischbeck, Bremerhaven / Fischer, Aerzen, Fischbeck / Fitzke, Hannover / Flotho, Kirchbrak / Forstemann, Kirchbrak / Fresen, Wremen / Frevert, Bega, Hillentrup / Fricke, Eimen, Geestendorf-Gellersen-Kirchbrak / Friedrichs, Aerzen / Fröhlich, Homeien / Frye, Bad Pyrmont / Garben, Kichbrak-Golmbach / Gartler, Kirchbrak / Gerler, Kirchbrak / Gloyer, Hannover / Gluntzen, Bösingfeld / Gödemann, Kirchbrak / Goemann, Einbeck / Görtler, Kirchbrak / Gottschalk, Ottenstein / Grässelmann, Kirchohsen / Grone, Kirchbrak / Grote, Steinegge / Grotehans, Bösingfeld / Hacke, Kirchbrak / Hahmann, Bad Pyrmont / Hakke, Aerzen / Halbenstedter, Griessem / Hänkemeyer, Hannover / Harenberg, Griessem / Harmening, Stadthagen / Hartmann, Barntrup / Hassebroch, Holstein / Hassebrock, Kirchohsen / Hausherr, Hannover / Heide, Holzhausen-Thal / Heinemann, Aerzen / Heldt, Griessem / Hellmuth, Hildesheim / Helms, Aerzen-Griessem / Hencke, Griessem / Henckel, Kirchohsen / Henne, Kirchbrak / Hennemann, Kirchbrak / Henrichsen, Holzhausen / Henzen, Golmbach-Ottenstein / Herms, Aerzen / Hespen, Horsten / Heuer, Aerzen-Barntrup-Kirchbrak / Heyden, Oesdorf / Hilcker, Oesdorf / Hildebrandt, Ludenhausen-Bösingfeld / Hilker, Bösingfeld-Hämelschenburg / Hilmer, Kirchohsen / Hilmert, Barntrup / Hirte, Aerzen / Hoeltke, Alverdissen / Hoitger, Aerzen / Holtegel, Einbeck / Holzapfel, Aerzen / Hopmann, Hannover / Hoppe, Hemeringen / Hövemeyer, Hannover / Höwing, Bega / Huhlemann, Bega / Hupe, Barntrup-Ottenstein / Huxhagen, Aerzen / Jäger, Kirchbrak / Johannsen, Friedrichsholm / Jorgen, Aerzen / Jünke, Kirchbrak / Jürgen, Aerzen / Käsen, Kirchohsen / Katz, Egge / Kehse, Aerzen / Kenckel, Kirchohsen / Kerchhoff, Bösingfeld / Kerl, Kirchbrak / Kersting, Bega / Kinkeldei, Oesdorf / Klaus, Posteholz / Kleene, Wiesederfehn / Kleinhaus, Upschort / Kleinsorge, Aerzen / Klemmann, Lemgo / Klocke, Marienmünster / Klussmann, Kirchohsen / Knickmeyer, Kirchohsen / Knoke, Kirchbrak / Knopfs, Hillentrup / Koch, Alverdissen / Kohlenberg, Kirchbrak / Kohrs, Kirchbrak / König, Aerzen / Korf, Schevelstein-Wördeholz / Kracht, Alverdissen-Bega / Kröger, Kirchbrak / Kropp, Aerzen-Barntrup / Krösche, Aerzen / Krueger, Blomberg / Krüger, Aerzen / Krül, Bega / Kuben, Kirchbrak / Kuckuck, Gellersen-Kirchohsen / Kuestermeyer, Hillentrup / Kuhfuss, Schevelstein / Kuhlemann, Bösingfeld-Aerzen / Kungen, Kirchbrak / Läger, Sonneborn / Lagers, Sonneborn / Lanthe, Griessem / Leege, Amelgatzen / Lembke, Kirchbrak / Lesemann, Barntrup / Lindhorst, Thal / Linneweber, Blomberg / Loges, Oesdorf / Lohmann, Aerzen / Lohrengel, Geestendorf / Lönnecken, Ottenstein / Lücke, Gellersen-Reher-Thal / Lutmann, Uhlental-Griessem / Mangold, Aerzen / Marosch, Reher / Matthias, Aerzen / Mensen, Bremen / Mesch, Blomberg-Erdbruch / Meschausen, Reelkirchen / Meyer, Aerzen-Barntrup-Brake-Erdbruch-Gellersen- Grossberkel-Homeien-Kirchbrak-Kirchbrak-Lüntorf-Oesdorf-Sonneborn-Thal / Möller, Kirchbrak / Müller, Bega-Donop-Oesdorf-Schevelstein / Mundhenke, Oesdorf / Nacken, Hillentrup / Niederhöfer, Bega / Niehus, Egge / Niemeyer, Hameln / Nolte, Bavenhausen-Gellersen-Thal / Nolten, Lemgo-Oesdorf / Noltenmeyer, Griessem / Nolting, Bösingfeld-Griessem / Oehlgeschlaeger, Oesdorf / Oerke, Lichtenhagen / Ohm, Aerzen / Ossenbrink, Lemgo / Osterholz, Wremen / Osterkrüger, Bega / Ottermann, Alverdissen / Pape, Aerzen-Gellersen-Hillentrup-Oesdorf-Schevelstein / Pasch, Holzhausen / Pauck, Aerzen / Pieper, Aerzen-Gellersen-Lippe-Reher / Pieritz, Reher / Pietrowicz, Berlin / Plöger, Bega / Pothaus, Lemgo / Pracht, Oesdorf / Pustkauken, Hannover / Püttger, Hastenbeck / Quanten, Sonneborn / Quast, Griessem / Räger, Delligsen / Rake, Aerzen / Rakemann, Gellersen-Kirchbrak / Rauchhaupt, Aerzen-Reher / Reckemeyer, Kirchohsen / Reese, Aerzen / Rehms, Hillentrup / Reimers, Ottenstein / Reinedran, Griessem / Reisener, Holzhausen / Rennemann, Kirchbrak / Renner, Wördeholz / Rickhoff, Oesdorf / Rieke, Bavenhausen / Rockmann, Griessem / Rodass, Flakenhausen / Roddau, Aerzen-Griessem / Röhr, Barntrup / Rose, Bösingfeld-Ottenstein / Rosenbaum, Hillentrup / Ruschenmeyer, Hillentrup / Saken, Gellersen / Schäfer, Aerzen-Hillentrup / Schake, Bega / Schaper, Kirchbrak-Kirchohsen-Lichtenhagen-Oesdorf-Ottenstein / Scheffer, Wendlinghausen / Scheffler, Hämelschenburg / Schinckel, Kirchbrak / Schluh, Thal / Schlüter, Reelkirchen / Schmedt, Kirchbrak / Schmidt, Hannover / Schnittger, Hillentrup / Schnölle, Kirchbrak / Scholz, Hannover / Schomburg, Ottenstein / Schöning, Hillentrup / Schrader, Gellersen-Magdeburg-Oesdorf / Schröder, Bega / Schroeder, Bega-Hillentrup / Schultze, Aerzen-Holzhausen / Schuttmann, Gellersen / Schütze, Hannover / Sschweckendieck, Golmbach / Seelmeyer, Griessem / Selse, Bega / Sickmann, Hämelschenburg / Sieck, Homeien / Siele, Aerzen / Sielemann, Aerzen / Siem, Bad Pyrmont / Siever, Aerzen-Ottenstein / Siewering, Barntrup / Silipen, Hillentrup / Söfker, Bega / Sölter, Barntrup / Specht, Kirchbrak / Spiegel, Aerzen / Sprick, Lemgo-Ludenhausen / Stammeyer, Donop / Stapel, Golmbach / Starcken, Griessem / Steffen, Holstein / Steinke, Bega / Steinmann, Kirchohsen / Sternberg, Hillentrup / Stien, Oesdorf / Stock, Bösingfeld / Stöcker, Aerzen / Stölting, Aerzen / Striblig, Hameln / Struck, Amelgatzen-Oesdorf-Thal / Stumpe, Barntrup / Sylvester, Wremen / Tacke, Kirchohsen / Tegtmeyer, Aerzen-Fischbeck / Tewes, Einbeck / Theermann, Bösingfeld / Thielke, Gellersen-Hämelschenburg / Thomas, Moisburg / Thorn, Gellersen / Tileke, Oesdorf / Timmer, Heiden / Timmermann, Ottenstein / Tünker, Bega / Vehmeyer, Barntrup / Veitmeyer, Barntrup / Vieth, Hillentrup-Pessinghausen / Vos, Kirchbrak / Wagener, Oesdorf / Wassell, Aerzen / Weber, Bega-Ludenhausen-Thal / Wedeking, Kirchbrak / Wedemeyer, Kirchbrak / Wegener, Bega / Wehrmann, Bösingfeld / Weiss, Bückeburg / Wellbrock, Bremerhaven / Weper, Kirchbrak / Wesemann, Erdbruch / Wienecke, Griessem / Wiese, Hämelschenburg / Wiesemüller, Bega / Wilhelms, Bega / Willen, Kirchbrak / Windel, Oesdorf / Wirth, Hannover / Witte, Grossberkel / Wittler, Ottenstein / Wölfer, Hannover / Wörlinghusen, Griessem / Wulf, Wremen / Zeddies, Kirchohsen / Zimmermann, Kirchohsen / Zoellner, Thal.

 

[HN] VORTMANN

Date: 2006/01/14 21:06:49
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>

Liebe Forscherkollege,

Ich suche die Name Vortmann o.Ä. in Hildesheim zwischen 1750 und 1850. Hat
jemand Daten zu dieser Name?

mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss

David Müldner

--
David Müldner

[HN] VORTMANN

Date: 2006/01/14 21:48:18
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>

 Liebe Forscherkollege,

Ich suche die Name Vortmann o.Ä. in Hildesheim zwischen 1750 und 1850. Hat
jemand Daten zu dieser Name?

mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss

David Müldner

--
David Müldner


--
David Müldner

Re: [HN] VORTMANN

Date: 2006/01/15 13:05:54
From: HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de <HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de>

Hello David,in dem Buch "Hildesheimer Leichenpredigten" von Hans Jürgen
von Wilckens stehen sechs leichenpredigten betr. Vortmann, außerdem wird
der Name darin noch öfters erwähnt. Nenne mir die Personen, die Du
suchst. Die Familie Vortmann war auch mit der Ratsherrenfamilie Storre
mehrfach versippt. Alles Gute Heinrich
-----Original Message-----
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:48:10 +0100
Subject: [HN] VORTMANN
From: David Muldner 
To: Hannover-L 

Liebe Forscherkollege,

Ich suche die Name Vortmann o.Ä. in Hildesheim zwischen 1750 und 1850.
Hat
jemand Daten zu dieser Name?

mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss

David Müldner

--
David Müldner


--
David Müldner
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l




[HN] Arend Heinrich Wilhelm Fischer

Date: 2006/01/15 15:34:05
From: Juergen Drees <J.Drees(a)gmx.net>

[ Forwarded message on behalf of Adele Fischer Hynes:
[ To Adele: 
[ Please subscribe to this mailing list at 
[ http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l?language=en 
[ and send messages to mailto:Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net .]


Seeking information of Arend Heinrich Wilhelm Fischer, who was a Tax
collector in (Freidland) Hannover. I known son Georg Wilhelm Fischer.
Born about 1825, who moved to Berlin about 1845. His marriage record
indicates he came from Hannover.

Sincerely, Adele Fischer Hynes  <Inurse(a)prodigy.net>

--- End of forwarded message ------------

Kind regards and a happy New Year to all subscribers!

Juergen (Drees)
-- 
-------------------=======######======-------------------
Juergen Drees                               Pappelberg 70
Telephon: 0531/2396474                 38104 Braunschweig
mailto:J.Drees(a)gmx.net                Deutschland/Germany



Re: [HN] VORTMANN

Date: 2006/01/15 15:44:02
From: Hannema <j.hannema(a)casema.nl>

Hallo Herr Munk ,

Die unterstehende Nachricht zufällig gelesen .   Darf ich Ihnen
fragen ob die Name  FREUDENHAMMER  auch im Buch
"Hildesheimer Leichenpredigten" vorkommt ?  Nur vor 1750
ist für mich interessant .

Mit freundlichen Grüssen aus Holland ,
Jacobus Hannema .



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] VORTMANN


> Hello David,in dem Buch "Hildesheimer Leichenpredigten" von Hans Jürgen
> von Wilckens stehen sechs leichenpredigten betr. Vortmann, außerdem wird
> der Name darin noch öfters erwähnt. Nenne mir die Personen, die Du
> suchst. Die Familie Vortmann war auch mit der Ratsherrenfamilie Storre
> mehrfach versippt. Alles Gute Heinrich
> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:48:10 +0100
> Subject: [HN] VORTMANN
> From: David Muldner
> To: Hannover-L
>
> Liebe Forscherkollege,
>
> Ich suche die Name Vortmann o.Ä. in Hildesheim zwischen 1750 und 1850.
> Hat
> jemand Daten zu dieser Name?
>
> mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss
>
> David Müldner
>
> --
> David Müldner
>
>
> --
> David Müldner
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



Re: [HN] VORTMANN

Date: 2006/01/15 18:30:33
From: HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de <HeinrichMunk(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Herr Hannema, leider Fehlanzeige, mir ist der Name auch sonst noch
nicht begegnet, Gruß Heinrich
-----Original Message-----
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 15:46:59 +0100
Subject: Re: [HN] VORTMANN
From: "Hannema" 
To: "Hannover-L" 

Hallo Herr Munk ,

Die unterstehende Nachricht zufällig gelesen .   Darf ich Ihnen
fragen ob die Name  FREUDENHAMMER  auch im Buch
"Hildesheimer Leichenpredigten" vorkommt ?  Nur vor 1750
ist für mich interessant .

Mit freundlichen Grüssen aus Holland ,
Jacobus Hannema .



----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
To: "Hannover-L" 
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [HN] VORTMANN


> Hello David,in dem Buch "Hildesheimer Leichenpredigten" von Hans
Jürgen
> von Wilckens stehen sechs leichenpredigten betr. Vortmann, außerdem
wird
> der Name darin noch öfters erwähnt. Nenne mir die Personen, die Du
> suchst. Die Familie Vortmann war auch mit der Ratsherrenfamilie Storre
> mehrfach versippt. Alles Gute Heinrich
> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:48:10 +0100
> Subject: [HN] VORTMANN
> From: David Muldner
> To: Hannover-L
>
> Liebe Forscherkollege,
>
> Ich suche die Name Vortmann o.Ä. in Hildesheim zwischen 1750 und 1850.
> Hat
> jemand Daten zu dieser Name?
>
> mit besten Dank und freundlichem Gruss
>
> David Müldner
>
> --
> David Müldner
>
>
> --
> David Müldner
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l




[HN] Max Schulte, Bersenbrück * 12 Apr 1875

Date: 2006/01/16 02:01:30
From: Sven Honerkamp <sven(a)honerkamps.de>

Liebe Liebe Listenteilnehmer,

 

Ich suche den Großvater meines Großvaters, Max Schulte, geboren 12 Apr 1875
in Bersenbrück.

 

Hat den jemand in seiner Datenbank oder hat jemand den passenden Mikrofilm
zur Hand?

 

Vielen Dank für jede Hilfe

 

Sven

 

Sven Honerkamp
Dipl. Kfm. (FH), M.A.
Einsteinstr. 12
44369 Dortmund

 <mailto:sven(a)honerkamps.de> sven(a)honerkamps.de 
 <http://www.honerkamps.de> www.honerkamps.de
Telefon +49 (0)231 8820399
Mobil +49 (0)163 6314216

 


[HN] FW: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender

Date: 2006/01/16 12:09:37
From: Petra.Tr(a)t-online.de <Petra.Tr(a)t-online.de>

Hallo,

ich wollte nur noch mal verkünden, dass ich meine Datenbank neu
gestaltet und mit derzeit kanpp 26.000 Personen online auf meiner
Webseite habe.

Ich freue mich, wenn ihr mal vorbeischaut und viel Spaß beim Stöbern!

Gruß
Petra

www.trischmann.com/genealogy

oder 
www.trischmann.com
Link *Genealogie*


Gruß
Petra








[HN] meine Webseite www.tischmann.com

Date: 2006/01/16 12:12:23
From: Petra.Tr(a)t-online.de <Petra.Tr(a)t-online.de>

SORRY!
Und jetzt noch mal mit richtigem Betreff ;-P


Hallo,

ich wollte nur noch mal verkünden, dass ich meine Datenbank neu
gestaltet und mit derzeit kanpp 26.000 Personen online auf meiner
Webseite habe.

Ich freue mich, wenn ihr mal vorbeischaut und viel Spaß beim Stöbern!

Gruß
Petra

www.trischmann.com/genealogy

oder 
www.trischmann.com
Link *Genealogie*


Gruß
Petra











[HN] Heimatblätter für den süd-westlichen H arzrand

Date: 2006/01/16 15:55:58
From: KlausKunzeUslar <KlausKunzeUslar(a)aol.com>

Weiß jemand, wo ich Kopien des Aufsatzes bekommen könnte:
 
Tacke, Eberhard 
 
Neues zur Geschichte der Glashütten am Rotenberg bei Pöhlde - HB 11 / 1962,  
S.6 - 10
Heimatblätter für den süd-westlichen Harzrand
Heft 1-60  [1956-2004] und
Sonderheft 1-10
Herausgegeben vom Heimat- und  Geschichtsverein Osterode / Harz und Umgebung 
e.V.


Klaus Kunze

Re: [HN] Heimatblätter für den süd-westlichen Harzrand

Date: 2006/01/16 16:02:12
From: Archiv . Vegelahn <Archiv.Vegelahn(a)t-online.de>

Kann ich machen.

-- 
Archiv & Bibliothek
Karlo Vegelahn


www.archiv-vegelahn.de
<KlausKunzeUslar(a)aol.com> schrieb:
> Weiß jemand, wo ich Kopien des Aufsatzes bekommen könnte:
>  
> Tacke, Eberhard 
>  
> Neues zur Geschichte der Glashütten am Rotenberg bei Pöhlde - HB 11 / 1962,  
> S.6 - 10
> Heimatblätter für den süd-westlichen Harzrand
> Heft 1-60  [1956-2004] und
> Sonderheft 1-10
> Herausgegeben vom Heimat- und  Geschichtsverein Osterode / Harz und Umgebung 
> e.V.
> 
> 
> Klaus Kunze
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 


-- 
Archiv & Bibliothek
Karlo Vegelahn


www.archiv-vegelahn.de

Re: [HN] Heimatblätter für den sü d-westlichen Harzrand

Date: 2006/01/16 19:29:57
From: KlausKunzeUslar <KlausKunzeUslar(a)aol.com>

In einer eMail vom 16.01.2006 16:03:01 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt 
Archiv.Vegelahn(a)t-online.de: 

> Archiv.Vegelahn(a)t-online.de

Danke Herr Vegelahn,
jetzt sind Sie nicht nur schon so fleißig, die Register zu schreiben, Sie 
kopieren auch. Toll. Ohne Ihr Online-Register wäre ich darauf überhaupt nicht 
erst gekommen. Können Sie den Artikel mailen oder Faxen (Fax 05571-6327)? Das 
würde Briefporto sparen.
Ihr dankbarer
Klaus Kunze

[HN] villiage of Holte

Date: 2006/01/16 19:41:54
From: holledm47 <holledm47(a)aol.com>

Hello,
Can anyone tell me where the village of Holte is located in Hannover.
Thank you,
Debbie Holle

Re: [HN] villiage of Holte

Date: 2006/01/16 20:41:43
From: Wilfried . Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

<holledm47(a)aol.com> schrieb:
> Hello,
> Can anyone tell me where the village of Holte is located in Hannover.
> Thank you,
> Debbie Holle
> ______________________________________________

Hello Debbie,

there are six Holte in Hannover:

near Leer, near Meppen, near Nienburg, near Wesermünde, near Osnabrück and near Diepholz.

Now you have the choice.

Regards
Wilfried (Petersen)


Re: [HN] villiage of Holte (fwd)

Date: 2006/01/16 20:44:09
From: Wilfried . Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

---Ursprüngliche Nachricht---
From: "Wilfried Petersen" <520090605062-0001(a)T-Online.de>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] villiage of Holte

<holledm47(a)aol.com> schrieb:
> Hello,
> Can anyone tell me where the village of Holte is located in Hannover.
> Thank you,
> Debbie Holle
> ______________________________________________

Hello Debbie,

error:  Wesermünde is today Bremerhaven.

Regards
Wilfried (Petersen)


[HN] Email from w.a.ridderbos with Wolfer name and Blomberg locality

Date: 2006/01/17 01:44:49
From: darlene baltus <dbaltus(a)2z.net>

I am interested in the name Wolfer.  I assume that is is from Hanover province.  I have several Wolf families in my tree and they also come from Schwarme, Hannover.  
I also noticed there was a Blomberg which I assumed was a town name.  Could you tell me where it is located.  I have Blom family but they are on the border between Gelderland and Germany.  
Thank you for your reply.  DB


Message: 2
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 19:19:30 +0100
From: "w.a. ridderbos" <w.a.ridderbos(a)xs4all.nl>
Subject: [HN] Angeheirateten Ritterbusch-Ridderbusch 1-2006.
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c61937$130e5580$9600000a(a)WAINTERNET>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

ANGEHEIRATETEN RITTERBUSCH-RIDDERBUSCH HAUPTSACHLICH IM GEBIET HANNOVER-AERZEN-KIRCHBRAK-LIPPE:        

(Weitere information: w.a.ridderbos(a)xs4all.nl).

 

Abel, Kirchbrak / Albrink, Aerzen / Alsweh, Kirchbrak / Althof, Alverdissen / Amenas, Aerzen / Angermann, Reher / Arens, Kleinenmarpe / August, Bösingfeld / Bade, Ottenstein / Bartels, Alverdissen / Barthold, Kirchbrak / Becker, Kirchbrak / Beckmann, Kirchohsen / Beesemann, Oesdorf / Begemann, Wendlinghausen / Behrmann, Aerzen / Benecke, Hannover-Lippe / Berghahn, Blomberg / Bergheim, Wremen / Bernstädt, Leipzig / Betke, Gellersen / Biesemeyer, Griessem / Bilstein, Barntrup / Binker, Gellersen / Bisemeyer, Egge / Blome, Bega / Bode, Kirchbrak / Bödecker, Barntrup / Böger, Brake / Böhmer, Sonneborn / Böhny, Kirchbrak / Böker, Ilsabey / Borchers, Aerzen / Borchling, Hannover / Bornemann, Kirchbrak / Boyer, Hildesheim / Brackmeyer, Lemgo / Brandt, Böingfeld-Oesdorfes, Bega / Brehmeyer, Egge / Brenneker, Gellersen / Brinkmann, Lichtenhagen / Brockmann, Kirchbrak / Brokhausen, Bösingfeld / Bruns, Hannover / Brunsen, Stade / Bucke, Aerzen / Bungenstock, Hameln-Kirchohsen / Bunte, Blomberg / Busch, Hannover / Buschbaum, Blückeburg / Canaries, Wremen / Comarens, Bremerhaven / Cormelius, Reepsholt / Crudups, Breitenkamp / Daues, Kirchbrak / Dedekind, Afferde-Pattensen / Delzig, Donop / Deppen, Griessem-Bösingfeld / Dickmann, Detmold / Dohmen, Bösingfeld / Dölling, Elmshorn / Dölmes, Kirchbrak / Dörries, Kirchbrak / Draken, Hillentrup / Drawen, Bösingfeld / Dreckes, Sonneborn / Dreve, Aerzen / Druenert, Bösingfeld / Drüge, Hohenhausen / Drüner, Barntrup / Dubbert, Ludenhausen / Eckhard, Hannover / Eckmeyer, Wendlinghausen / Engelke, Kirchbrak / Falke, Kirchohsen / Fass, Wiesederfehn / Fassen, Bega, Oesdorf / Fedemann, Bremen / Feger, Hillentrup / Fehrmann, Oesdorf / Finken, Erdbruch, Oesdorf, Blomberg / Fischbeck, Bremerhaven / Fischer, Aerzen, Fischbeck / Fitzke, Hannover / Flotho, Kirchbrak / Forstemann, Kirchbrak / Fresen, Wremen / Frevert, Bega, Hillentrup / Fricke, Eimen, Geestendorf-Gellersen-Kirchbrak / Friedrichs, Aerzen / Fröhlich, Homeien / Frye, Bad Pyrmont / Garben, Kichbrak-Golmbach / Gartler, Kirchbrak / Gerler, Kirchbrak / Gloyer, Hannover / Gluntzen, Bösingfeld / Gödemann, Kirchbrak / Goemann, Einbeck / Görtler, Kirchbrak / Gottschalk, Ottenstein / Grässelmann, Kirchohsen / Grone, Kirchbrak / Grote, Steinegge / Grotehans, Bösingfeld / Hacke, Kirchbrak / Hahmann, Bad Pyrmont / Hakke, Aerzen / Halbenstedter, Griessem / Hänkemeyer, Hannover / Harenberg, Griessem / Harmening, Stadthagen / Hartmann, Barntrup / Hassebroch, Holstein / Hassebrock, Kirchohsen / Hausherr, Hannover / Heide, Holzhausen-Thal / Heinemann, Aerzen / Heldt, Griessem / Hellmuth, Hildesheim / Helms, Aerzen-Griessem / Hencke, Griessem / Henckel, Kirchohsen / Henne, Kirchbrak / Hennemann, Kirchbrak / Henrichsen, Holzhausen / Henzen, Golmbach-Ottenstein / Herms, Aerzen / Hespen, Horsten / Heuer, Aerzen-Barntrup-Kirchbrak / Heyden, Oesdorf / Hilcker, Oesdorf / Hildebrandt, Ludenhausen-Bösingfeld / Hilker, Bösingfeld-Hämelschenburg / Hilmer, Kirchohsen / Hilmert, Barntrup / Hirte, Aerzen / Hoeltke, Alverdissen / Hoitger, Aerzen / Holtegel, Einbeck / Holzapfel, Aerzen / Hopmann, Hannover / Hoppe, Hemeringen / Hövemeyer, Hannover / Höwing, Bega / Huhlemann, Bega / Hupe, Barntrup-Ottenstein / Huxhagen, Aerzen / Jäger, Kirchbrak / Johannsen, Friedrichsholm / Jorgen, Aerzen / Jünke, Kirchbrak / Jürgen, Aerzen / Käsen, Kirchohsen / Katz, Egge / Kehse, Aerzen / Kenckel, Kirchohsen / Kerchhoff, Bösingfeld / Kerl, Kirchbrak / Kersting, Bega / Kinkeldei, Oesdorf / Klaus, Posteholz / Kleene, Wiesederfehn / Kleinhaus, Upschort / Kleinsorge, Aerzen / Klemmann, Lemgo / Klocke, Marienmünster / Klussmann, Kirchohsen / Knickmeyer, Kirchohsen / Knoke, Kirchbrak / Knopfs, Hillentrup / Koch, Alverdissen / Kohlenberg, Kirchbrak / Kohrs, Kirchbrak / König, Aerzen / Korf, Schevelstein-Wördeholz / Kracht, Alverdissen-Bega / Kröger, Kirchbrak / Kropp, Aerzen-Barntrup / Krösche, Aerzen / Krueger, Blomberg / Krüger, Aerzen / Krül, Bega / Kuben, Kirchbrak / Kuckuck, Gellersen-Kirchohsen / Kuestermeyer, Hillentrup / Kuhfuss, Schevelstein / Kuhlemann, Bösingfeld-Aerzen / Kungen, Kirchbrak / Läger, Sonneborn / Lagers, Sonneborn / Lanthe, Griessem / Leege, Amelgatzen / Lembke, Kirchbrak / Lesemann, Barntrup / Lindhorst, Thal / Linneweber, Blomberg / Loges, Oesdorf / Lohmann, Aerzen / Lohrengel, Geestendorf / Lönnecken, Ottenstein / Lücke, Gellersen-Reher-Thal / Lutmann, Uhlental-Griessem / Mangold, Aerzen / Marosch, Reher / Matthias, Aerzen / Mensen, Bremen / Mesch, Blomberg-Erdbruch / Meschausen, Reelkirchen / Meyer, Aerzen-Barntrup-Brake-Erdbruch-Gellersen- Grossberkel-Homeien-Kirchbrak-Kirchbrak-Lüntorf-Oesdorf-Sonneborn-Thal / Möller, Kirchbrak / Müller, Bega-Donop-Oesdorf-Schevelstein / Mundhenke, Oesdorf / Nacken, Hillentrup / Niederhöfer, Bega / Niehus, Egge / Niemeyer, Hameln / Nolte, Bavenhausen-Gellersen-Thal / Nolten, Lemgo-Oesdorf / Noltenmeyer, Griessem / Nolting, Bösingfeld-Griessem / Oehlgeschlaeger, Oesdorf / Oerke, Lichtenhagen / Ohm, Aerzen / Ossenbrink, Lemgo / Osterholz, Wremen / Osterkrüger, Bega / Ottermann, Alverdissen / Pape, Aerzen-Gellersen-Hillentrup-Oesdorf-Schevelstein / Pasch, Holzhausen / Pauck, Aerzen / Pieper, Aerzen-Gellersen-Lippe-Reher / Pieritz, Reher / Pietrowicz, Berlin / Plöger, Bega / Pothaus, Lemgo / Pracht, Oesdorf / Pustkauken, Hannover / Püttger, Hastenbeck / Quanten, Sonneborn / Quast, Griessem / Räger, Delligsen / Rake, Aerzen / Rakemann, Gellersen-Kirchbrak / Rauchhaupt, Aerzen-Reher / Reckemeyer, Kirchohsen / Reese, Aerzen / Rehms, Hillentrup / Reimers, Ottenstein / Reinedran, Griessem / Reisener, Holzhausen / Rennemann, Kirchbrak / Renner, Wördeholz / Rickhoff, Oesdorf / Rieke, Bavenhausen / Rockmann, Griessem / Rodass, Flakenhausen / Roddau, Aerzen-Griessem / Röhr, Barntrup / Rose, Bösingfeld-Ottenstein / Rosenbaum, Hillentrup / Ruschenmeyer, Hillentrup / Saken, Gellersen / Schäfer, Aerzen-Hillentrup / Schake, Bega / Schaper, Kirchbrak-Kirchohsen-Lichtenhagen-Oesdorf-Ottenstein / Scheffer, Wendlinghausen / Scheffler, Hämelschenburg / Schinckel, Kirchbrak / Schluh, Thal / Schlüter, Reelkirchen / Schmedt, Kirchbrak / Schmidt, Hannover / Schnittger, Hillentrup / Schnölle, Kirchbrak / Scholz, Hannover / Schomburg, Ottenstein / Schöning, Hillentrup / Schrader, Gellersen-Magdeburg-Oesdorf / Schröder, Bega / Schroeder, Bega-Hillentrup / Schultze, Aerzen-Holzhausen / Schuttmann, Gellersen / Schütze, Hannover / Sschweckendieck, Golmbach / Seelmeyer, Griessem / Selse, Bega / Sickmann, Hämelschenburg / Sieck, Homeien / Siele, Aerzen / Sielemann, Aerzen / Siem, Bad Pyrmont / Siever, Aerzen-Ottenstein / Siewering, Barntrup / Silipen, Hillentrup / Söfker, Bega / Sölter, Barntrup / Specht, Kirchbrak / Spiegel, Aerzen / Sprick, Lemgo-Ludenhausen / Stammeyer, Donop / Stapel, Golmbach / Starcken, Griessem / Steffen, Holstein / Steinke, Bega / Steinmann, Kirchohsen / Sternberg, Hillentrup / Stien, Oesdorf / Stock, Bösingfeld / Stöcker, Aerzen / Stölting, Aerzen / Striblig, Hameln / Struck, Amelgatzen-Oesdorf-Thal / Stumpe, Barntrup / Sylvester, Wremen / Tacke, Kirchohsen / Tegtmeyer, Aerzen-Fischbeck / Tewes, Einbeck / Theermann, Bösingfeld / Thielke, Gellersen-Hämelschenburg / Thomas, Moisburg / Thorn, Gellersen / Tileke, Oesdorf / Timmer, Heiden / Timmermann, Ottenstein / Tünker, Bega / Vehmeyer, Barntrup / Veitmeyer, Barntrup / Vieth, Hillentrup-Pessinghausen / Vos, Kirchbrak / Wagener, Oesdorf / Wassell, Aerzen / Weber, Bega-Ludenhausen-Thal / Wedeking, Kirchbrak / Wedemeyer, Kirchbrak / Wegener, Bega / Wehrmann, Bösingfeld / Weiss, Bückeburg / Wellbrock, Bremerhaven / Weper, Kirchbrak / Wesemann, Erdbruch / Wienecke, Griessem / Wiese, Hämelschenburg / Wiesemüller, Bega / Wilhelms, Bega / Willen, Kirchbrak / Windel, Oesdorf / Wirth, Hannover / Witte, Grossberkel / Wittler, Ottenstein / Wölfer, Hannover / Wörlinghusen, Griessem / Wulf, Wremen / Zeddies, Kirchohsen / Zimmermann, Kirchohsen / Zoellner, Thal.


[HN] Strelow

Date: 2006/01/17 04:54:44
From: Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>

Now I have a query on behalf of a cousin who is researching John (Johann) Sponholtz * 1842 in Strelow.  Does anyone know where Strelow is or was?  Spelling could be off.  I could not find it on any modern map that I have.  Thanks for your help.
Jane
Weiss jemand wo ist oder war ein Dorf genannt Strelow?  Danke für die kleinste Nachricht.   Jane


Jane Swan
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

Re: [HN] Strelow

Date: 2006/01/17 06:20:16
From: Delores Kikuchi <kidolly(a)verizon.net>

Oh, my, seeing your message almost made me cry for joy. I have been searching everywhere for Johann Spadholtz, as he was called in Ohio. I am not certain, but I think the name was spelled Sponholtz in Germany. It has been spelled about 3 diffferent ways in the US. If they are the same person, my Great-Grandfather was Johann F. Spadholtz (Sponholtz) and was born ABOUT 1839 in Bresewitz, Burg Stargard, Mecklenburg-Strelitz. The spelling of Strelitz is similar to Strelow. The name Tegge, according to my deceased mother, is also part of my ancestry, and I found many Tegges in Bresewitz. The pertinent years for Johann's birth are missing from the Mormon records, so I have not been able to make a definite connection. I know his father was also Johann Spadholtz, born about 1792 The mother was Josephine. They came to the US in 1862. I have many pictures of the homestead, relatives, etc. PLEASE ANSWER ME! Ich kann Deutsch, obwohl ich Amerikanerin bin.

Dolly Kikuchi

On Monday, January 16, 2006, at 05:54  PM, Jane Swan wrote:

Now I have a query on behalf of a cousin who is researching John (Johann) Sponholtz * 1842 in Strelow. Does anyone know where Strelow is or was? Spelling could be off. I could not find it on any modern map that I have. Thanks for your help.
Jane
Weiss jemand wo ist oder war ein Dorf genannt Strelow? Danke für die kleinste Nachricht. Jane


Jane Swan
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



Re: [HN] Strelow

Date: 2006/01/17 07:06:46
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi,
     Strelow is in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, southwest of Grimmen.  Farther
west of there is a town called Stremlow. Maybe mapquest.com would show it.
Barbara



on 1/16/06 8:54 PM, Jane Swan at jeswansong(a)earthlink.net wrote:

> Now I have a query on behalf of a cousin who is researching John (Johann)
> Sponholtz * 1842 in Strelow.  Does anyone know where Strelow is or was?
> Spelling could be off.  I could not find it on any modern map that I have.
> Thanks for your help.
> Jane
> Weiss jemand wo ist oder war ein Dorf genannt Strelow?  Danke f?r die kleinste
> Nachricht.   Jane
> 
> 
> Jane Swan
> jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
> Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Strelow

Date: 2006/01/17 10:18:49
From: Nikolaus Ordemann <n.ordemann(a)infocity.de>

Jane Swan schrieb:
Now I have a query on behalf of a cousin who is researching John (Johann) Sponholtz * 1842 in Strelow.  Does anyone know where Strelow is or was?  Spelling could be off.  I could not find it on any modern map that I have.  Thanks for your help.
Jane
Weiss jemand wo ist oder war ein Dorf genannt Strelow?  Danke für die kleinste Nachricht.   Jane

a good tool to locate german places is
http://www.rolf.sytes.net:8011/myphp/index.php.
Search can be done by substrings, so you can search with "strelow" as well as, e.g., with "elo".



--
              Nikolaus (Ordemann)
      http://privat.genealogy.net/ordemann
      Die genealogische Ordemann-Homepage
The (German language) genealogical Ordemann homepage

Re: [HN] Email from w.a.ridderbos with Wolfer name and Blomberg locality

Date: 2006/01/17 12:39:09
From: Wilfried . Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

"darlene baltus" <dbaltus(a)2z.net> schrieb:
> I am interested in the name Wolfer.  I assume that is is from Hanover province.  I have several Wolf families in my tree and they also come from Schwarme, Hannover.  
> I also noticed there was a Blomberg which I assumed was a town name.  Could you tell me where it is located.  I have Blom family but they are on the border between Gelderland and Germany.  
> Thank you for your reply.  DB
> 
> 
Hello Darlen,

you are right. Here Blomberg means a town. There are two Blomberg in Germany: One in Hannover about 12 km north of Aurich (Ostfriesland); the other in Lippe about 14 km east of Detmold.
I think the Blomberg mentioned in the mail of W.A.Ridderbos is that in Lippe.

Regards
Wilfried (Petersen)


[HN] Nachkommen Knickmann

Date: 2006/01/17 17:54:37
From: Barbara Eckrath <knickmann(a)gmx.net>

Hallo an Alle

Ich suche noch nach Nachkommen von:

Ingeborg Knickmann  *10.08.1921 in Gelsenkirchen-Buer
Sieglinde Knickmann *14.03.1925 in Münster

Mehr Daten direkt zu den Schwestern habe ich leider nicht. Die Daten der
Eltern sind mir bekannt.

Weitere Daten zu den Namensträgern Knickmann sind auch willkommen.

Viele Grüße und Danke
Barbara

-- 
Barbara (Eckrath) geb.Knickmann
Alleestr. 36
46282 Dorsten


Suche alles zu Knickmann

Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko!
Satte Provisionen für GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner

[HN] Familie Keitel

Date: 2006/01/17 19:34:13
From: GenHofstaedt <GenHofstaedt(a)aol.com>

Hallo Liste,
 
hat jemand hinweise über die familie KEITEL aus hannover bin für jeden  
hinweis dankbar.
 
grüße
 
jens (hostaedt)
 

Re: [HN] Familie Keitel

Date: 2006/01/18 00:40:52
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello,
      Did the family emigrate from hannover?  What are the first names?
Barbara



on 1/17/06 11:34 AM, GenHofstaedt(a)aol.com at GenHofstaedt(a)aol.com wrote:

> 
> hat jemand hinweise über die familie KEITEL aus hannover bin für jeden
> hinweis dankbar.
> 


[HN] Re: Strelow

Date: 2006/01/18 02:00:15
From: Jane Swan <jeswansong(a)earthlink.net>

Thanks everyone.  I have forwarded your msgs to my cousin Jamie and am trying to talk her into joining the list.    Jane


Jane Swan
jeswansong(a)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

[HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis

Date: 2006/01/18 10:31:48
From: Neil <newpond(a)bigpond.net.au>

Hello
I am seeking the birth details of a Wilhelm Carl Louis Demel, mostly just known as "Louis" Demel.

He came to Australia in the 1880s. He was born in Hanover, Germany, the son of George Demel and Helmena. I do not have his year of birth, but most likely it would have been in the 1860s. He died in 1939 in Sydney, Australia, but I do not have his age at death.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Neil
Australia
newpond(a)bigpond.net.au

Re: [HN] Angeheirateten Ritterbusch-Ridderbusch 1-2006.

Date: 2006/01/18 11:59:38
From: dieWehrbeins <dieWehrbeins(a)t-online.de>

Hallo Herr Ridderbos,
vielleicht auch von Interesse für Sie.

Konfirmiert in Aerzen 
1681:
Margrete Ridderbusch - Reher / Grießem
1682:
Anna Doroth. Ridderbusch - Grießem
1688:
Ilsabe Ridderbusch - Reher / Grießem
Joh. Henrich Ridderbusch - Reinerbeck
1690:
Jacob Ridderbusch - Grupenhagen / Multhöpen
1695:
Anna Magdal. Ridderbusch - Reher / Grießem
1696:
Anna Amalia Ridderbusch - Reher / Grießem
1705:
Hans Herm. Ridderbusch - Reher / Grießem
1709:
Jost Herman Ridderbusch - Reher / Grießem
1773:
Henr. Carl Ridderbusch - Aerzen
1781:
Joh. Heinr. Ridderbusch - Grießem
1782:
Joh. Fried. Ridderbusch - Aerzen
1783:
Anna Cath. Elis. Ridderbusch - Grießem
1784:
Conrad Ridderbusch - Grießem
1787:
Doroth. Ridderbusch - Aerzen
1788:
Anna Christ. Louise Ridderbusch - Grießem

Freundliche Grüße
Thomas Wehrbein


[HN] Fwd: Müldner/Multner/Mildner

Date: 2006/01/18 17:53:02
From: David Muldner <david.muldner(a)gmail.com>

 Liebe Mitforscher,

da ich annehme dass in die vergangene Zeit mehrere Forscher zu dieser List
beigetreten sind, möchte ich meine Interesse an jede Daten über die Familie
Müldner und andere Schreibweise wiederholen.

mit freundlichem Gruss

--
David Müldner


--
David Müldner

[HN] (no subject)

Date: 2006/01/18 18:06:40
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hello,
 
I am looking for information related to my great grandfather Frederick Speckman.
 
He was born around 1844 in the Kingdom of Hanover and came to the US in about 1857 and ended up in San Francicsco where he married Anna Stoppler and had 19 children. He died after 1910.
 
I am trying to find out anything I can about him or his family in Germany. Like what town he was from or who is parents were and if his parents also came to the US. 
 
Thanks for any help you can give me
 
Best Regards,
 
Barney Speckman
San Francisco, Califronia USA

[HN] [compgend-L] Sterbeeintrag Westkirchen (fwd)

Date: 2006/01/18 18:22:57
From: Wilfried . Petersen <Wilfried.Petersen(a)t-online.de>

---Ursprüngliche Nachricht---
From: "Klaus Rothschuh" <k.rothschuh(a)telelev.net>
To: "Computergenealogie-Liste" <compgend-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [compgend-L] Sterbeeintrag Westkirchen

Liebe Liste,

vergangene Woche las ich im KB St. Laurentius, Westkirchen (Nähe Oelde - BAB
2) den folgenden Sterbeeintrag:
KB 3, S. 155 (Bistumsarchiv Münster)

31. Mart 1758 Henric Wenzell Hanoveranus catholicus


Wenn jemand freundlicherweise das an eine entsprechende Liste weiterleien
könnte....
Vielleicht kann ja einer etwas damit anfangen.

Vielen Dank nd Gruss,
Klaus (Rothschuh)

----------------------------------------
Ich verwende die kostenlose Version von SPAMfighter,
die bei mir bis jetzt 673 Spammails entfernt hat.
Für private Anwender ist SPAMfighter völlig kostenlos!
Jetzt gratis testen: www.SPAMfighter.com

___________________________________________________________
Tipps rund um die Mailingliste:
http://compgen.genealogy.net/maillist.htm
Mitgliederdatenbank: http://db.genealogy.net/vereine/CompGen
An-/Abmelden und Zustellung bei Urlaub aussetzen unter
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/CompGenD-L


------


Re: [HN] Familie Keitel

Date: 2006/01/18 18:27:29
From: GenHofstaedt <GenHofstaedt(a)aol.com>

Hello Barbara,
 
I don´t know. The first Keitel I know are Georg Albert Keitel, he was born  
in Hannover in 1882. His parents were Josef Keitel, he works on the station, 
and  Karoline Wilhelmine Brüning. I don´t know if Georg had sisters or brothers, 
but  I want to know it. I´m looking for some relatives who can give me some  
informations about the family or can send me some old photos of these persons  
with e-mail.
 
regards
 
jens

Re: [HN] Familie Keitel

Date: 2006/01/18 21:22:44
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello,

      I couldn't find anything at all definite for your Keitel family.
There are many listed on the LDS webpage (www.familysearch.org). You have to
recognize that there will be listing for Hannover and it may mean the former
Kingdom or it may mean the city of Hannover.    There are several from the
city of Hannover, born in the l880-1890.  If you do a search on the LDS
page, choose the "advanced search" and search for the name Keitel only and
choose "exact spelling".  There are many Keitels listed. One thing you have
to be aware of is that many persons have 3 and 4 names, so you may have to
"guess" to know the name most commonly used.

     I searched in  many genealogy sites, but could not find your people.
It is wise to do many Google searches with the last name and other helpful
words, like Keitel Hannover, etc.

     The names below are from the emigration archives.  It may give you an
idea where some Keitels lived before they left Germany.

     From the Hannover archieve these are the names listed, with the name of
the residence which may or not be the birthplace:

    Keitel, Auguste    9326 Liebenburg
    Keitel, Christina    9381 Liebenburg
    Keitel, Eduard    19829 Hannover city?
    Keitel, Eleonore    8934 Liebenburg
    Keitel, Friederike    9328 Liebenburg
    Keitel, Hermine    9327 Wöltingerode
    Keitel, Johann Carl Christian    9328 Liebenburg

      These are from the Wölfenbüttel area:

    Keitel, Christian    14117 Area of Stadtoldendorf
    Keitel, Ernst Friedrich Adolph Theodor  1422 Braunschweig city
    Keitel, Johann    1423  Braunschweig city

Sorry I couldn't find anything more helpful.

Barbara







on 1/18/06 10:27 AM, GenHofstaedt(a)aol.com at GenHofstaedt(a)aol.com wrote:

> Hello Barbara,
> 
> I don´t know. The first Keitel I know are Georg Albert Keitel, he was born
> in Hannover in 1882. His parents were Josef Keitel, he works on the station,
> and  Karoline Wilhelmine Brüning. I don´t know if Georg had sisters or
> brothers, 
> but  I want to know it. I´m looking for some relatives who can give me some
> informations about the family or can send me some old photos of these persons
> with e-mail.
> 
> regards
> 
> jens
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] (no subject)

Date: 2006/01/18 22:23:30
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Barney:

Barney, you are playing roulette asking if anyone on the
list might know about your GGP and the town he came from.

You need to have some facts from the States and that is
where you are lucky.

In ESS EFF you have the Herb Caen
Library, where you can find Obits going back to the 49ers.
Look for your GGP's Obit, it is likely to indicate where
he came from.  My GP came to the states in 1867 on the
Bremen, a sailing steamer.  There are many articles about
the Bremen in the library's archives.

The Herb Caen Magazines and Newspapers Center (5th floor)
has magazines, newspapers, phone books and San Francisco
City Directories.  100 Larkin Street, San Francisco, CA
94102 · Ph: 415-557-4400
http://sfpl.org/librarylocations/main/mags.htm


Next, you have the California Genealogical Library (Sutro
Library).  It is one of the largest and best in the
West.  I found my GP's name on the passenger list of
the Bremmen.  I found my other GGP and GP's marriage
records there (from Missiouri).  If you can narrow down
the date your GGP arrived, you can very likely find a film
with his ship and name on it.  They are in chronological
order, which makes it easier if you have a date.


Sutro Library
480 Winston Drive
San Francisco, CA 94132

The Sutro Library has one of the largest genealogical
collections west of Salt Lake City with extensive
resources for states other than California and basic
resources for California. The California Section of the
California State Library, Sacramento, has more materials
for California history and genealogy.

http://www.onelibrary.com/Library/calslsut.htm


Then you have the National Maritime Library out at Fort
Mason.  The have copies of the Lloyds Registery and photos
of ships no one has heard of.  They had a photo (yes a
photo) of the Bremen, when it was once in SF.  I also
found many photos of the USS General Mann, the ship I went to Korea on. Many of the photos were of the (cruse) I was
on, but I didn't see my mug.

J. Porter Shaw Library  at the San Francisco Maritime
National Historical Park

http://www.maritimelibraryfriends.org/

At the corner of Laguna and Beach streets
San Francisco, California 94123



OK, now lets go south a little. You have the National
Records center at:

http://www.archives.gov/pacific/san-francisco/
1000 Commodore Drive
San Bruno, California 94066-2350

Finally, there are a lot of historical churches in SF.
Marriage records could very well be in one of the Historical Churches in SF.

You have the City and County of San Francico for many other records.

I would start with the obits and marraige records.

Good Luck,

Gale
Walnut Creek


Was at the Fog City Diner a couple of weeks ago, Farley and the Bears were not there.



On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:06:30 -0500
 bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:
Hello,

I am looking for information related to my great grandfather Frederick Speckman.

He was born around 1844 in the Kingdom of Hanover and came to the US in about 1857 and ended up in San Francicsco where he married Anna Stoppler and had 19 children. He died after 1910.

I am trying to find out anything I can about him or his family in Germany. Like what town he was from or who is parents were and if his parents also came to the US. Thanks for any help you can give me

Best Regards,

Barney Speckman
San Francisco, Califronia USA
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


RE: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis

Date: 2006/01/18 22:34:53
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

With what you have provided, it might be best to ask what you have so far on Louis Demel, and what record searches you have performed there locally on your end. There seems to be a number of nebulous spaces here, normally best addressed locally before attempting to bridge the connection on the German side.

He was born in Hanover

Do you have anything that indicates the city of Hanover, as opposed to the state of Hanover? Big big difference.

He died in 1939 in Sydney, Australia, but I do not have his age at death.

Do you have his death certificate and/or obituary? A cemetery or funeral record? Naturalization papers or census listings? Do you know if he had additional relations in Australia, and if so, have you attempted to contact or interview them?

It might be best to indicate how much research you have done to date in your quest, and as mentioned, what record sources you have checked on the Australian side. This would also make it easier for listers to possibly suggest additional advice depending on where you are at in your research. I assume you are already familiar with Cyndi's List for record resources in your neck of the woods?

http://www.cyndislist.com/austnz.htm#Records

You may luck out of course, but right now with what you have, it looks more like a roll of the dice.

Jb

From: "Neil" <newpond(a)bigpond.net.au>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:31:35 +0800

Hello
I am seeking the birth details of a Wilhelm Carl Louis Demel, mostly just known as "Louis" Demel.

He came to Australia in the 1880s. He was born in Hanover, Germany, the son of George Demel and Helmena. I do not have his year of birth, but most likely it would have been in the 1860s. He died in 1939 in Sydney, Australia, but I do not have his age at death.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Neil
Australia
newpond(a)bigpond.net.au

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


[HN] Heinrich George Christoph Gotlieb VOGES

Date: 2006/01/18 22:48:41
From: DH de Jong <dhdejong(a)xs4all.nl>

Hello,

I'm looking for information about Heinrich George Christoph Gotlieb VOGES.
He was also called Christoffel. He was born in about 1752 in the Hannover
area. He went to the Netherlands and married Margaretha Fernhout in 1785.

Who has information about his parents and so on?

With regards,

Dick de Jong,

Netherlands


[HN] [GGHH] Auswanderung VOSS 1856-1871 (fwd)

Date: 2006/01/18 23:13:00
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

There was an interesting mail on a closed list, which might help especially some of the English speaking listers. So I added a translation. Good luck.


---Ursprüngliche Nachricht---
From: "Hans-Peter Voss" 
To: "gengeshh(a)genealogy.net" <gengeshh(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [GGHH] Auswanderung VOSS 1856-1871

Auswanderung VOSS von 1856 bis 1871
Im Frühjahr 2005 habe ich an der Erfassung der zwischen 1856 und 1871 
ausgewanderten VOSS über den Hafen HAMBURG gearbeitet. Aus Zeitgründen 
habe ich die Arbeit allerdings nicht mehr fortgeführt.
Erste Ergebnisse (ca. 600 Personen) sind online:
http://www.genealogy-sh.com/voss.htm

MfG - Hans Peter Voss

_______________________________________________
GenGesHH mailing list
GenGesHH(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/gengeshh

translation:
Emigration VOSS from 1856 to 1871
In Spring 2005 I worked on the recording of the emigrated VOSS
by the harbour of Hamburg between 1856 and 1871. By reasons of time
I did not continue this work. First results (600 persons) are online:
http://www.genealogy-sh.com/voss.htm

Greetings H...P...V...



RE: [HN] Speckman

Date: 2006/01/18 23:16:00
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

First off, it is always best to include a subject line. Without one, many listers might not even look at your posting, having no idea what it might be about. I'll put my response under SPECKMAN.

Much like I wrote to Neil in Australia earlier today, it might be best to indicate what record searches you have performed to date locally on the American side. Without an idea of the city or town your ancestor comes from in Germany, you are somewhat like a raft in the middle of the sea. Knowing "Hanover" and little more puts you in the Atlantic let's say, as opposed to the entire seven seas, but not much further.

In a nutshell, you generally need to exhaust the available records on the local (American) side before hoping to jump the pond. Since none of us have any idea how much experience you may have, or how many records you have availed yourself to so far in this regard, it is hard to pinpoint the best approach to take or suggest. Once this is known, listers may offer up additional resources or ideas on how to proceed further. Obvious ones are records pertaining to vital stats (B-D-M), burials, obituaries, censuses and naturalizations. It simply extends in complexity from there. LDS resources as well as Internet search engines and genealogical websites are also "must" checks in ones research arsenal these days.

There is also the often effective method of hiring a professional genealogist/researcher on the German side. A number of them - all quite competent - are subscribers to this list. Their services are not necessarily cheap per se, but are still often reasonable due to their expertise with the German archives and available resources on their end. But here too, unless you have a few specifics to offer regarding your antecedents location, you may be in over your head, and this will curtail their effectiveness likewise. Or at a minimum, pretty much guarantee a larger research nick.

Jb

I am looking for information related to my great grandfather Frederick Speckman.

He was born around 1844 in the Kingdom of Hanover and came to the US in about 1857 and ended up in San Francicsco where he married Anna Stoppler and had 19 children. He died after 1910.

I am trying to find out anything I can about him or his family in Germany. Like what town he was from or who is parents were and if his parents also came to the US.

Thanks for any help you can give me

Best Regards,

Barney Speckman
San Francisco, Califronia USA

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


Re: [HN] (no subject)

Date: 2006/01/18 23:18:59
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi Barney,

      If your great grandfather's name was Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann,
then he may be the one on an emigration list from the Osnabrück area.  There
is a person listed from Dom (Haste,Schinkel).  I'm not positive, but I think
those may be in or near the city of Osnabrück (from  my map it looks that
way).  He could have changed the spelling of the first name, and if the
middle name fits and if he dropped the second n in the name, this could be
your man.  If so, you can order records on him.  Speckman(n) seems to be a
fairly common German name.
    
      There are 4 other Speckmanns listed in the emigration archives:

    Speckmann, August Ferdinand    18388
    Speckmann, Cathrine Ilse    18149
    Speckmann, Dietrich Wilhelm    18388
    Speckmann, Marie Sophie 18388

      These are from the town of Uchte.

     On the other hand, there is a Friedr. Speckmann age 28 with a wife
Auguste age 20 on a ship from Hamburg in 1857:

http://immigrantships.net/v4/1800v4/main18570525.html

     Maybe first wife died before he met Anna Stoppler?  If he had 19 kids
there would probably be two wives.  Lots of women died in childbirth.

    According to your records he would have been 13 when he came to the USA?

     You should run some searches on these sites:

http://geneanet.org/
http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp
  www.familysearch.org  (the LDS site that may have some clues for you.)

    Maybe you've already looked at those sites.

      I see that he is F.F. Speakman in the 1880 census in San Francisco.
Maybe he is the guy in the emigration archives--Friedrich Ferdinand in the
first paragraph above.

Good luck,
Barbara

    





on 1/18/06 10:06 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am looking for information related to my great grandfather Frederick
> Speckman.
> 
> He was born around 1844 in the Kingdom of Hanover and came to the US in about
> 1857 and ended up in San Francicsco where he married Anna Stoppler and had 19
> children. He died after 1910.
> 
> I am trying to find out anything I can about him or his family in Germany.
> Like what town he was from or who is parents were and if his parents also came
> to the US. 
> 
> Thanks for any help you can give me
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Barney Speckman
> San Francisco, Califronia USA
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Heinrich George Christoph Gotlieb VOGES

Date: 2006/01/18 23:32:17
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello,
     Have you ever tried looking for this guy on the LDS site:
www.familysearch.org?  It's interesting because I used the Christoffel name
and got a lot of Christoph type names. And some Georges become Jürgen.  I
don't see your man there, but it may be worthwhile to look over the Voges
names with the various given names.
Have fun,
Barbara 





on 1/18/06 2:48 PM, DH de Jong at dhdejong(a)xs4all.nl wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking for information about Heinrich George Christoph Gotlieb VOGES.
> He was also called Christoffel. He was born in about 1752 in the Hannover
> area. He went to the Netherlands and married Margaretha Fernhout in 1785.
> 
> Who has information about his parents and so on?
> 
> With regards,
> 
> Dick de Jong,
> 
> Netherlands
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Speckmann from Wellingholzhausen, Melle

Date: 2006/01/18 23:33:04
From: Sven Honerkamp <sven(a)honerkamps.de>

Hi there,

I once had a colleague in school - she was a Speckmann, Daniela is her name.

 
She is from the farm Speckmann in Wellingholzhausen, Melle district.

This could be their phone:   	 Speckmann Dirk u. Konrad
	Borgloher Str. 70 	49326 Melle 	
05429 13 07

These are all of Speckmann:

	 Speckmann
	Südweg 12 	49326 Melle 	
05425 95 54 84
	
  	Speckmann Dirk u. Konrad
	Borgloher Str. 70 	49326 Melle 	
05429 13 07
	
  	Speckmann Ernst
	Holterdorfer Str. 64 	49326 Melle 	
05428 23 83
	
  	Speckmann Gerald u. R.
	Mustersiedlung 9A 	49324 Melle 	
05422 88 61
	
  	Speckmann Heinrich Tischle...
	Holterdorfer Str. 64 	49326 Melle 	
05428 3 06
	
  	Speckmann Heinrich u. Gerd...
	Gerdener Str. 9 	49326 Melle 	
05428 13 77
	
  	Speckmann Heinrich-Wilhelm
	Gerdener Str. 9 	49326 Melle 	
05428 92 15 52
	
  	Speckmann Heinz
	Hirschberger Str. 6 	49324 Melle 	
05422 27 61
	
  	Speckmann Siegrid u. Heinr...
	Spechtsheide 16 	49326 Melle 	
05428 15 28
	
  	Speckmann Uwe
	Eickener Str. 36A 	49324 Melle 	
05422 4 91 07
	
   	  Name     	  Straße, Hausnummer   	  Postleitzahl, Ort
Telefonnummer  	Details
  	Speckmann Uwe
	Eickener Str. 36A 	49324 Melle 	
05422 92 41 01
	
  	Speckmann Volker
	Bielefelder Str. 67 	49326 Melle 	
05428 19 37
	
  	Speckmann Wilfried
	Wittenauer Str. 6 	49324 Melle 	
05422 24 71
	
  	Speckmann Wilhelm
	Haller Str. 48 	49326 Melle 	
05428 6 66

Sven Honerkamp
Dipl. Kfm. (FH), M.A.
Einsteinstr. 12
44369 Dortmund

sven(a)honerkamps.de 
www.honerkamps.de
Telefon +49 (0)231 8820399
Mobil +49 (0)163 6314216


-----Original Message-----
From: hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net
[mailto:hannover-l-bounces(a)genealogy.net] On Behalf Of J b
Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2006 23:16
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: RE: [HN] Speckman

First off, it is always best to include a subject line. Without one, many 
listers might not even look at your posting, having no idea what it might be

about. I'll put my response under SPECKMAN.

Much like I wrote to Neil in Australia earlier today, it might be best to 
indicate what record searches you have performed to date locally on the 
American side. Without an idea of the city or town your ancestor comes from 
in Germany, you are somewhat like a raft in the middle of the sea. Knowing 
"Hanover" and little more puts you in the Atlantic let's say, as opposed to 
the entire seven seas, but not much further.

In a nutshell, you generally need to exhaust the available records on the 
local (American) side before hoping to jump the pond. Since none of us have 
any idea how much experience you may have, or how many records you have 
availed yourself to so far in this regard, it is hard to pinpoint the best 
approach to take or suggest. Once this is known, listers may offer up 
additional resources or ideas on how to proceed further. Obvious ones are 
records pertaining to vital stats (B-D-M), burials, obituaries, censuses and

naturalizations. It simply extends in complexity from there. LDS resources 
as well as Internet search engines and genealogical websites are also "must"

checks in ones research arsenal these days.

There is also the often effective method of hiring a professional 
genealogist/researcher on the German side. A number of them - all quite 
competent - are subscribers to this list. Their services are not necessarily

cheap per se, but are still often reasonable due to their expertise with the

German archives and available resources on their end. But here too, unless 
you have a few specifics to offer regarding your antecedents location, you 
may be in over your head, and this will curtail their effectiveness 
likewise. Or at a minimum, pretty much guarantee a larger research nick.

Jb

>I am looking for information related to my great grandfather Frederick 
>Speckman.
>
>He was born around 1844 in the Kingdom of Hanover and came to the US in 
>about 1857 and ended up in San Francicsco where he married Anna Stoppler 
>and had 19 children. He died after 1910.
>
>I am trying to find out anything I can about him or his family in Germany. 
>Like what town he was from or who is parents were and if his parents also 
>came to the US.
>
>Thanks for any help you can give me
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Barney Speckman
>San Francisco, Califronia USA

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

______________________________________________

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[HN] Research

Date: 2006/01/18 23:47:43
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi J B,

      Hire a researcher???  No way, that's too easy!  You only do that when
you've exhausted every single bit of info you can find.  Even then, you hope
and pray that the LDS will eventually copy all the records for EVERYWHERE.
Probably not in our lifetime. Anyway, there are so many resources that you
touch every base, beg people, search every mailing list and message board.
And Google is getting so good supplying more and more info.  The hunt is
what makes it fun.  Don't you have lots of friends and relatives who think
you're nuts??  Dead relatives? who cares?  My problem is I never know when
to stop. I should be working on some England/Scotland stuff and Bavaria
stuff and some loose ends in Hannover besides. I wish Bavaria would have a
list for English-speaking folk.  I know the Rootsweb one is there, but not
as many Germans write on that one as they do here.

   Sorry I forgot to write Speckman in my response on my last letter! That
is so helpful in the long run.

Barbara 


on 1/18/06 3:15 PM, J b at johnbrene(a)hotmail.com wrote:

> First off, it is always best to include a subject line. Without one, many
> listers might not even look at your posting, having no idea what it might be
> about. I'll put my response under SPECKMAN.
> 
> Much like I wrote to Neil in Australia earlier today, it might be best to
> indicate what record searches you have performed to date locally on the
> American side. Without an idea of the city or town your ancestor comes from
> in Germany, you are somewhat like a raft in the middle of the sea. Knowing
> "Hanover" and little more puts you in the Atlantic let's say, as opposed to
> the entire seven seas, but not much further.
> 
> In a nutshell, you generally need to exhaust the available records on the
> local (American) side before hoping to jump the pond. Since none of us have
> any idea how much experience you may have, or how many records you have
> availed yourself to so far in this regard, it is hard to pinpoint the best
> approach to take or suggest. Once this is known, listers may offer up
> additional resources or ideas on how to proceed further. Obvious ones are
> records pertaining to vital stats (B-D-M), burials, obituaries, censuses and
> naturalizations. It simply extends in complexity from there. LDS resources
> as well as Internet search engines and genealogical websites are also "must"
> checks in ones research arsenal these days.
> 
> There is also the often effective method of hiring a professional
> genealogist/researcher on the German side. A number of them - all quite
> competent - are subscribers to this list. Their services are not necessarily
> cheap per se, but are still often reasonable due to their expertise with the
> German archives and available resources on their end. But here too, unless
> you have a few specifics to offer regarding your antecedents location, you
> may be in over your head, and this will curtail their effectiveness
> likewise. Or at a minimum, pretty much guarantee a larger research nick.
> 
> Jb
> 
>> I am looking for information related to my great grandfather Frederick
>> Speckman.
>> 
>> He was born around 1844 in the Kingdom of Hanover and came to the US in
>> about 1857 and ended up in San Francicsco where he married Anna Stoppler
>> and had 19 children. He died after 1910.
>> 
>> I am trying to find out anything I can about him or his family in Germany.
>> Like what town he was from or who is parents were and if his parents also
>> came to the US.
>> 
>> Thanks for any help you can give me
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Barney Speckman
>> San Francisco, Califronia USA
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] (no subject) Speckman

Date: 2006/01/19 00:35:29
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Jb wrote:
In a nutshell, you generally need to exhaust the available records on the local (American) side before hoping to jump the pond. Since none of us have any idea how much experience you may have, or how many records you have availed yourself to so far in this regard, it is hard to pinpoint the best approach to take or suggest. Once this is known, listers may offer up additional resources or ideas on how to proceed further.

And then there's Barbara. She may not go back as far as some of us, but she is the H-L list MATRIARCH all the same, and worth her weight in gold. When Gale and Barbie-Lew decide to jump in to boot, consider half your work done already! The rest of us posters - on both sides of the Atlantic - are more or less hit-n-miss contributors and/or agent provocateurs (the latter pertains mostly to yours truly, so not to worry), but on any given day can bring home a helpful payload. Fred and Jane may offer up some insightful historical perspectives now and again, and when various German posters and old-timers chip in a bit more, it generally gets REAL good. Now lovely Rena from England may choose to cast her lot also, and she too rightly belongs to the latter category, only she remains true blue and royal so be prepared (myself, I can only clutch to Bohemian blood and beer, thus with teeth gnashing. Even Fosters seems out of reach). ;)

Good luck mate. Looks like the valve has already cracked a bit.

Jb

PS. Did my eyes trick me, or did I happen to chance upon a Linda Pauling posting recently. Long time no see Linda -- where've u been keeping yourself lately! :)

From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] (no subject)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:18:48 -0700

Hi Barney,

      If your great grandfather's name was Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann,
then he may be the one on an emigration list from the Osnabrück area. There is a person listed from Dom (Haste,Schinkel). I'm not positive, but I think
those may be in or near the city of Osnabrück (from  my map it looks that
way).  He could have changed the spelling of the first name, and if the
middle name fits and if he dropped the second n in the name, this could be
your man.  If so, you can order records on him.  Speckman(n) seems to be a
fairly common German name.

      There are 4 other Speckmanns listed in the emigration archives:
<snip>

_________________________________________________________________
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[HN] MARHENKE

Date: 2006/01/19 00:42:07
From: Bob Marhenke <bobmarval(a)juno.com>

I have belonged to this the list for quite some time and it has been very
helpful to me. 

I want to refresh my query.  I am searching for any MARHENKE information
any one might have.  My MARHENKE'S came from southwest of HANNOVER in the
middle 1800's.  They lived in the WALLENSEN, THÜSTE, MARIENHAGEN,
DEINSEN, BANTELN, WEENZEN etc area. The MARHENKE name appears to have
come from this surrounding area originally altho quite scattered now it
still not a very common name

If any one has any information of any MARHENKE family, I am very
interested----Bob Marhenke Lincoln Nebraska

RE: [HN] Research

Date: 2006/01/19 01:23:17
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Hi Barb

Well truth be known, I have not hired a professional researcher myself in all the years I've been pounding this pavement (it'd be hard to for a number of reasons), but it hasn't stopped me from occasionally tapping them for ideas. I also pride myself on doing the legwork myself, and it is indeed half the fun (the other half being an obvious love for punishment). I can recall the days when accelerated indexes ruled (who recalls those ancient, beastly things?), many moons before computer databasing took to the fore. So to use a researcher's services does seems like a bit of a faux paus (cheating to term it better? Maybe traitor?). Besides at this point and after all this head banging, I'm in a heightened category anyways, with lots of cuts and bruises to show for it (moreover, I've spent over 20 years doing private investigations, and though not genealogically based, there are obvious overlaps).

Of course once the LDS German record resources are exhausted (or remain non-microfilmed or fiched or datamined), as well as the various Net avenues and approaches, the professional European researcher looms ever more reasonable and appealing. Most do their work very professionally, and have backgrounds to match. In Germany, and without the proper credentials, private research is somewhat frowned upon, though this no doubt varies depending on location and repository staff. Even in the States you can see this, although it is not as pronounced as it is in much of Europe. For this reason and others, professional services do not come a la cheap, but nor does a lifetime of effort chasing ye old tail either. It often comes down to how much 'fun' you derive out of it personally, and how much you like taking on such challenges. Now for most who stick with it, the hunt often becomes the best part of the chase, paradoxes be damned. Who would know! ;)

Don't you have lots of friends and relatives who think you're nuts??

Yes, and so do I at times (it's only fair, since it begs the obvious). :)

So we merrily (wearily?) stagger forth, lunging at every windmill, looking over our shoulders at every decrepit and weed ridden cemetery we pass (in there maybe??). Only don't fault me if I eventually throw in the flag and collapse on one of the pro's gens doorsteps for my Schmidts and Schulzes. If they offer me a beer, I'm as good as done for (now you know the meaning behind sweet surrender).

Jb

on 1/18/06, Barbara Stewart wrote:

Hi J B,

Hire a researcher??? No way, that's too easy! You only do that when you've exhausted every single bit of info you can find. Even then, you hope
and pray that the LDS will eventually copy all the records for EVERYWHERE.
Probably not in our lifetime. Anyway, there are so many resources that you
touch every base, beg people, search every mailing list and message board.
And Google is getting so good supplying more and more info.  The hunt is
what makes it fun.  Don't you have lots of friends and relatives who think
you're nuts??  Dead relatives? who cares?  My problem is I never know when
to stop. I should be working on some England/Scotland stuff and Bavaria
stuff and some loose ends in Hannover besides. I wish Bavaria would have a
list for English-speaking folk.  I know the Rootsweb one is there, but not
as many Germans write on that one as they do here.

   Sorry I forgot to write Speckman in my response on my last letter! That
is so helpful in the long run.

Barbara


on 1/18/06 3:15 PM, J b at johnbrene(a)hotmail.com wrote:

> First off, it is always best to include a subject line. Without one, many > listers might not even look at your posting, having no idea what it might be
> about. I'll put my response under SPECKMAN.
<snip>

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RE: [HN] Auswanderung VOSS 1856-1871

Date: 2006/01/19 02:39:59
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

zu Hans-Peter

für das englischsprechende, vielen Dank für dieser hilfreich Info.

beste Grüße, Jb

There was an interesting mail on a closed list, which might help especially some of the English speaking listers. So I added a translation. Good luck.

Emigration VOSS from 1856 to 1871
In Spring 2005 I worked on the recording of the emigrated VOSS
by the harbour of Hamburg between 1856 and 1871. By reasons of time
I did not continue this work. First results (600 persons) are online:
http://www.genealogy-sh.com/voss.htm

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[HN] Louis Demel

Date: 2006/01/19 06:39:36
From: Neil <newpond(a)bigpond.net.au>

Hello
I am seeking the birth details of a Wilhelm Carl Louis Demel, mostly just known as "Louis" Demel.

He went to Australia in the 1880s. He was born in Hanover, Germany, the son of George Demel and Helmena. I do not have his year of birth, but most likely it would have been in the 1860s. He died in 1939 in Sydney, Australia, but I do not have his age at death.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Neil

RE: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis

Date: 2006/01/19 06:43:48
From: Elizabeth <aliens(a)bigpond.net.au>

Hello Neil,

You have already been offered some good advice, and you must start your research here in Australia and work backwards from your own parents, this is essential before any serious research can begin in Germany.

A simple check of the passenger arrival indexes either on line or at your local family history library for each state in Australia would have told you that an L Demel arrived from New Zealand at the Port of Melbourne in 1885. (just go to google and type in Public Record Office Victoria and then click on their on-line immigration index, there are several entries for Demel)

His naturalization may well be in New Zealand as well, check this index at your local library if available, order a copy from New Zealand, this record may indicate if he was resident in England or America prior to his arrival in New Zealand. Keep in mind that New Zealand was part of Australasia until Federation in 1901. It would not have been necessary for him to become naturalized again when here arrived in Australia.

Purchase all BDMs, or obtain copies from other researchers, collectively they should provide you with important information which could give you clues to his exact place of origin. Death certificates usually indicate the number of years the deceased has been resident in the Colony.

The LDS (Mormons) have filmed a significant amount of records for Germany, Australia and New Zealand check their "Family History Library Catalog" for details, these records include immigration, naturalization, civil and church records, military records, census, cemetery records, education, apprenticeship/ guild records etc...films can be ordered from your nearest Mormon library, no matter where you live in Australia.

Once you identify your ancestors arrival, confirm his personal details such as his age on arrival, at the time of his naturalization, his marriage and when his children were born etc. serious research can begin only when these details are known.

Check the National Archives of Australia www.naa.gov.au there are 17 entries for Demel, most interesting is a Bankrupt Estate file for Louis Demel, held in the "Perth office", the date range is from 1892-1960 you should order a photocopy (fees apply) of this file and see what it contains. Because it covers 68 years it should contain some family details and business information.

There are numerous "Trade Mark" files held in Canberra. The Canberra files can be ordered as on-line digital images for free. The files held in the Melbourne office can only be photocopied and posted to you for a fee. There is also a military service record for George Blake Demel, already digitised on line, his mother is Mrs Marion Blake Demel of Western Australia.

Talk to your family, include relatives, their friends and business colleagues.

These are just a few hints to get your research started, when you have more information I am sure there are several people on this list who will be happy to assist you further.

Good luck.

Elizabeth
NSW Australia

At 01:34 PM 18/01/2006 -0800, you wrote:

With what you have provided, it might be best to ask what you have so far on Louis Demel, and what record searches you have performed there locally on your end. There seems to be a number of nebulous spaces here, normally best addressed locally before attempting to bridge the connection on the German side.

He was born in Hanover

Do you have anything that indicates the city of Hanover, as opposed to the state of Hanover? Big big difference.

He died in 1939 in Sydney, Australia, but I do not have his age at death.

Do you have his death certificate and/or obituary? A cemetery or funeral record? Naturalization papers or census listings? Do you know if he had additional relations in Australia, and if so, have you attempted to contact or interview them?

It might be best to indicate how much research you have done to date in your quest, and as mentioned, what record sources you have checked on the Australian side. This would also make it easier for listers to possibly suggest additional advice depending on where you are at in your research. I assume you are already familiar with Cyndi's List for record resources in your neck of the woods?

http://www.cyndislist.com/austnz.htm#Records

You may luck out of course, but right now with what you have, it looks more like a roll of the dice.

Jb

From: "Neil" <newpond(a)bigpond.net.au>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:31:35 +0800

Hello
I am seeking the birth details of a Wilhelm Carl Louis Demel, mostly just known as "Louis" Demel.

He came to Australia in the 1880s. He was born in Hanover, Germany, the son of George Demel and Helmena. I do not have his year of birth, but most likely it would have been in the 1860s. He died in 1939 in Sydney, Australia, but I do not have his age at death.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Neil
Australia
newpond(a)bigpond.net.au



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RE: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis

Date: 2006/01/19 07:12:46
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Very nice follow-up Elizabeth. That one's a keeper. ;)

Neil, time for some feedback on your part, not regurgitations.

Jb

From: Elizabeth <aliens(a)bigpond.net.au>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: RE: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:03:28 +1100

Hello Neil,

You have already been offered some good advice, and you must start your research here in Australia and work backwards from your own parents, this is essential before any serious research can begin in Germany.

A simple check of the passenger arrival indexes either on line or at your local family history library for each state in Australia would have told you that an L Demel arrived from New Zealand at the Port of Melbourne in 1885. (just go to google and type in Public Record Office Victoria and then click on their on-line immigration index, there are several entries for Demel)

His naturalization may well be in New Zealand as well, check this index at your local library if available, order a copy from New Zealand, this record may indicate if he was resident in England or America prior to his arrival in New Zealand. Keep in mind that New Zealand was part of Australasia until Federation in 1901. It would not have been necessary for him to become naturalized again when here arrived in Australia.

Purchase all BDMs, or obtain copies from other researchers, collectively they should provide you with important information which could give you clues to his exact place of origin. Death certificates usually indicate the number of years the deceased has been resident in the Colony.

The LDS (Mormons) have filmed a significant amount of records for Germany, Australia and New Zealand check their "Family History Library Catalog" for details, these records include immigration, naturalization, civil and church records, military records, census, cemetery records, education, apprenticeship/ guild records etc...films can be ordered from your nearest Mormon library, no matter where you live in Australia.

Once you identify your ancestors arrival, confirm his personal details such as his age on arrival, at the time of his naturalization, his marriage and when his children were born etc. serious research can begin only when these details are known.

Check the National Archives of Australia www.naa.gov.au there are 17 entries for Demel, most interesting is a Bankrupt Estate file for Louis Demel, held in the "Perth office", the date range is from 1892-1960 you should order a photocopy (fees apply) of this file and see what it contains. Because it covers 68 years it should contain some family details and business information.

There are numerous "Trade Mark" files held in Canberra. The Canberra files can be ordered as on-line digital images for free. The files held in the Melbourne office can only be photocopied and posted to you for a fee. There is also a military service record for George Blake Demel, already digitised on line, his mother is Mrs Marion Blake Demel of Western Australia.

Talk to your family, include relatives, their friends and business colleagues.

These are just a few hints to get your research started, when you have more information I am sure there are several people on this list who will be happy to assist you further.

Good luck.

Elizabeth
NSW Australia

From: "Neil" <newpond(a)bigpond.net.au>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 = [x2] =

Hello
I am seeking the birth details of a Wilhelm Carl Louis Demel, mostly just known as "Louis" Demel.

He came to Australia in the 1880s. He was born in Hanover, Germany, the son of George Demel and Helmena. I do not have his year of birth, but most likely it would have been in the 1860s. He died in 1939 in Sydney, Australia, but I do not have his age at death.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Neil
Australia
newpond(a)bigpond.net.au

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Re: [HN] Heinrich George Christoph Gotlieb VOGES

Date: 2006/01/19 08:46:17
From: D H de Jong <dhdejong(a)xs4all.nl>

Hello Barbara,
I had a look at the LDS site and found Christoffel Vogels married with
Margeretha Fernhout on 22-5-1785 (batch 7611307 sheet 87). But in the
marriage registers of the Lutheran church in  Harlem (Netherlands) he is
called Heinrich George Christoph Gotlieb Voges. Maybe in Germany he is
known as Christoffel Vogels.
Who has more information?
Regards,
Dick de Jong

> Hello,
>      Have you ever tried looking for this guy on the LDS site:
> www.familysearch.org?  It's interesting because I used the Christoffel
> name
> and got a lot of Christoph type names. And some Georges become Jürgen.  I
> don't see your man there, but it may be worthwhile to look over the Voges
> names with the various given names.
> Have fun,
> Barbara
>
>
>
>
>
> on 1/18/06 2:48 PM, DH de Jong at dhdejong(a)xs4all.nl wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm looking for information about Heinrich George Christoph Gotlieb
>> VOGES.
>> He was also called Christoffel. He was born in about 1752 in the
>> Hannover
>> area. He went to the Netherlands and married Margaretha Fernhout in
>> 1785.
>>
>> Who has information about his parents and so on?
>>
>> With regards,
>>
>> Dick de Jong,
>>
>> Netherlands
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
> ______________________________________________
>
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>
>



RE: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis

Date: 2006/01/19 11:39:35
From: Elizabeth <aliens(a)bigpond.net.au>

Hello Neil,

Wilhelm Carl Louis Demel occupation Merchant, was naturalized in Dunedin New Zealand 1 September 1885

no other reference given on the index, you will need to contact http://www.archives.govt.nz/doingresearch/researchinfo/refform_intro.php

you can make an online request for his naturalisation documents to be sent to you, if you do not have anyone in New Zealand to go to the Archives on your behalf.

Elizabeth


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Re: [HN] German language in America

Date: 2006/01/19 12:48:39
From: hydraulikd1 <hydraulikd1(a)t-online.de>

<Captruro(a)aol.com> schrieb:
> Dear Bernd--Those interested in genealogy I think would all agree that 
> traditions lost when transplanted into a new culture, especially language, result in 
> a "disconnect" with our past, which we have undertaken to overcome!  I think 
> America was much more a "melting pot" of immigrants, which made things very 
> difficult for the immigrants and their children, but as I have heard told "if it 
> doesn't kill you, it will make you stronger."  I think that is why I am so 
> interested in finding out the stories behind my ancestors' struggles and their 
> family history back in Germany.  Although my father died before my interest 
> began,  I remember clearly the day he answered the telephone and started to speak 
> German to a friend of my brother's from Germany!  I had never heard him speak 
> German before (I was 20 years old!).
>  
> Let me just add there also has been a change regarding the attitude of those 
> from other countries living in America in that mostly they do not want to 
> become part of a "melting pot" but retain their cultures and this does have an 
> impact on our schools, healthcare systems, and government programs.  However, 
> because America is such a large area, there is bound to be cultural differences 
> among the different parts of our country.  
>  
> The problem I have with our institutions teaching "respect for differences" 
> is that it should begin with the pride we should take in our own beliefs and 
> traditions--perhaps the pursuit of genealogy should begin in our elementary 
> schools!
>  
> I am almost 60 years old and have decided to learn German!!!  Wish me luck!!!
Congratulation Claire, that's great. 
Karl
>  
> Claire 
>  
> Question:  My grandmother (CLARA HOLSTEIN) was in an Orphanage in Duesseldorf 
> about 1895.  I believe it was a Catholic Orphanage--where would I look for 
> records?
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 



[HN] Re: Kregel, Meyer

Date: 2006/01/19 12:48:39
From: hydraulikd1 <hydraulikd1(a)t-online.de>

Hi Jo, above names are familiar to me from the HANNOVER area in the triangle Steimbke, Linsburg, Rodewald. 
Regards
Karl  
"jo meyer" <gutenmorgen(a)mail.com> schrieb:
>   In my searches I  had  the town in  Farnhamville  [has a German
>   colony]and Churdan[ Mainly Irish] Iowa and the church ,because some
>   one else was getting records from a church I saw  in a centennial
>   book laying around in my parents boxes.  I nealy threw  this church
>   centennial book  away. I hope i did not others not knowing the
>   importance. There in the centennial pages was the founding fathers.
>   [My ancestors. the church had the 'colony' founders from Oldendorf
>   and the church Nahrendorf. ] and many other members from the area of
>   oldendorf or who had married to some there.
> 
>   One family Jurgen  H. Frederick Meyer  said  Bleckede as origination
>   which had the church of Nahrendorf. His wife Schenk was also from
>   there. His brother Jurgen H. William Meyer  was a christian scientist
>   and his name was not in the book. His wife was and she was from
>   Kreutzen bei Luneburg it said. [ Bergen church district, kries
>   celle]. but the children are all listed and sponsers are found by
>   indivual search of babtisms. they are listed as being from Oldendorf.
>   church Nahrendorf. so I am able to send for records and search back. 
>   Often the maps look like these other villages are so far, but
>   sometimes they really are only  a few miles apart. Then  I  reach a
>   road block mentioned from another area of  Radenbeck germny.
> 
>   I am happy to be led to the father and mothers family of my Juergen's
>   the juregen Johann  Heinrich Luhman family near this area. few miles
>   away. sometimes Nahrendorf church sometimes Dahlenburg church. I did
>   not get all the church records of the luhman family in depth from the
>   church[ but i will eventually]. A  kind  resident of Oldendorf man by
>   name Kregel/  Meyer gave me some lookups as a basis of my serching
>   there. And the famous Albers of this list helped me alot.
> 
>   Often church records give the fathers name when the children marry
>   and it is up to you to write and ask for more information., which i
>   have not done. My Luhmann church records go all the way to
>   Bostelwiebaeck and Lehstahl over to area by Elbe and down by Gohrde.
>   etc..Marriage to Schlaphof  at Tellmer from Raven.
> 
>   GEHRKE
> 
>   I have the name Gehrke in the tree. Andre  Heinrich Gehrke of
>   Dubbekold  had a child Cathrina Elisabeth Gehrke who married Jurgen
>   Heinrich  Luhmann [ b. 1753]of Eichdorf. We have had a few Sophia[
>   Mueller family] Helene's, in the family, but none have named the
>   children of this direct linage Sophia. Going back to 1600's their has
>   been connections with Nahrendorf church. the family branch that went
>   up to Northern Bleckede to areas like Altgarge and even to more north
>   [ can't think of name] These went to Iowa with the Meyer family.
>   Later moved to Ottertail and Goodhue, Mn where others from this
>   Dahlenburg area of germany went.
> 
>   The children of Gehrke/ Luhmann bring in Reinecke, Ries, Reiss,
>   Meyer, Schlaphof[f], Bartels, Barthel,Timm,Schulz, Schulze,Seil,
>   Meier, Pagel, Konke,Steinbach,Jacobs, Blank,Grothe,Tripp - . plus
>   church records  with unidentifiable names.
> 
>   The trees of those mentioned at jonas on line.de of dahlenburg have
>   possibilites.Maleyka. Nothing proven yet. My Luhman said that they
>   would be related to all in that area.?
> 
>   In the family we have names albert and august and otto. Wheredid they
>   come from. The godfthers have one name mentoned. Is it considered
>   part of the name unmentioned? Some times I think the first born has
>   the father and grandfthers name plus the mothers father in the three
>   names. My family had nothing mroe to do with people in Radenbeck., so
>   it seems so the naming pattern skips them  alot.
> 
>    Sauck co., wi is the tree of george meyer one finds a marraige at
>   Nahrendorf. One finds the name Behn. References to mn. and ks and
>   nebraska. [ it's been awhile since i checked this] names like herman,
>   thersa, edward,marie, etc names coming to family Riley , Streeter.
>   but all loose ends.  i believe some of mine may have went to Wi., but
>   time will tell.
> 
>   For a long time I took what I read to heart 'that the people stayed
>   in their villages and would not be marrying someone from a long ways
>   away'. NONSENSE. Mine found Celle people to marry over by Oldendorf. 
>   Dahlenburg imported people from west of Hanover to bring in new
>    occupations and goods. trade routes because of salt and other things
>   brought in people.  If they hadn't mixed with others elsewhere it
>   would be easier. ONE HAS TO KEEP AN OPEN MIND.  also, When i get a
>   ship list I check the whole thing. Woe is me.
> 
>   About below. it gets so confusing you see in records hanover and it
>   is not the city after all but the kingdom. and then you see it
>   Hannover Kingdom and even in germany the alternate spelling. so I try
>   to check everything. not even sure my concept is right.
> 
>   well, I guess I  gave my New Years wine.
> 
>   Happy new years
> 
> 
>   19:46:51 -0500
>   From: Bob Marhenke
>   Subject: Re: Re: [HN] GEHRKE - BÜLTEMANN
>   To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
>   Message-ID: <20051029.194651.2908.0.bobmarval(a)juno.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
>   I too am curious if these tie into the Gerke's in my line that come
>   from
>   the Ft Wayne
>   > 2. AUGUST2 GERKE (HENRY1) was born May 18, 1857 in Germany, and
>   > died April 30, 1924 in Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson.
>   > He married SOPHIE STELLOH Abt. 1875, daughter of CONRAD STELLOH
>   > and MARGARETHA FINKE. She was born August 06, 1857 in Germany,
>   > and died January 12, 1929 in Greenfield, Milwaukee County,
>   > Wisconson.
>   >
>   > Notes for AUGUST GERKE:
>   > According to family tradition August Ge(H)rke was born in
>   > Hanover, Germany. But it is noted that many who say they came
>   > from Hanover come from the kingdom of Hanover and not
>   > necessarily the city of Hanover. August was born May 18, 1857
>   > according to his death Certificate in Germany the son of Henry
>   > and Adelbert (Finke) Gehrke.
>   >
>   > August finds a wife in Sophia Eva Stelloh the daughter of Conrad
>   > and Margaretha (Finke) Stelloh He marries her about 1875 in
>   > Germany as their 2 oldest children Conrad and William were born
>   > there.
>   >
>   > The first record we find of August Gerke is when he departed
>   > Bremen Germany aboard the ship Oder, arrived in New York on 19
>   > Dec 1881.
>   > We Know he was in Milwaukee County by 1882 as his Son Fred was born
>   there.
>   > August is first recorded the 5th day of June in the 1900 Census
>   > Living in Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin. His
>   > Occupation is listed as a tanner.
>   > It is now the 15th day of April in 1910 and we find him living
>   > at 1135 22nd Avenue in Greenfield Township, Milwaukee County
>   > Wisconsin.
>   > This is The 1st official document showing his named spelled Gehrke.
>   > The Last census August was recorded in was on the 22nd of
>   > January 1920 at the same address in Greenfield.
>   >
>   > August Gerke died the 30th of April 1924 In Greenfield and was
>   > buried the 3rd of May 1924 in Good Hope Cemetery, Milwaukee,
>   > Wisconsin.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > More About AUGUST GERKE:
>   > Burial: May 03, 1924, Good Hope Cemetery, Milwaukee, Wisconson
>   > Cause of Death: Carcinoma of Stomach
>   > Census: 1900, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   > Census 2: 1910, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   > Census 3: 1920, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   > Occupation: Bet. 1900 - 1910, Tanner
>   >
>   > Notes for SOPHIE STELLOH:
>   > Lived in Milwaukee, Wisconson for 48 years.
>   >
>   > Sophia in the 1900 Census of Greenfield, Milwaukee County
>   > Wisconsin Says she had 11 Children 10 of which were living in
>   > 1900.
>   >
>   > More About SOPHIE STELLOH:
>   > Burial: January 16, 1929, Good Hope Cemetery, Milwaukee, Wisconson
>   > Cause of Death: Chronic Mycarditis. General Arterio Sclerosis
>   > Census: 1900, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   > Census 2: 1910, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   > Census 3: 1920, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   > Medical Information: Contributory-Hypertension
>   > Occupation: Housewife
>   >
>   > Children of AUGUST GERKE and SOPHIE STELLOH are:
>   > i. CONRAD3 GERKE, b. September 1875, Hanover, Germany; m. DORA
>   > SCHRODES, Abt. 1899; b. August 1880, Mechlenberg, Germany.
>   >
>   > More About CONRAD GERKE:
>   > Census: 1900, Milwaukee, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   > Census 2: 1910, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   > Census 3: 1920, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   > Immigration: 1880
>   > Occupation: Bet. 1900 - 1920, Cabinet Maker
>   >
>   > More About DORA SCHRODES:
>   > Census: 1900, Milwaukee, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   > Census 2: 1910, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   > Census 3: 1920, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   > Immigration: 1884
>   >
>   > ii. WILLIAM F GERKE, b. May 1878, Hanover Germany.
>   >
>   > More About WILLIAM F GERKE:
>   > Census: 1900, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   > Census 2: 1910, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   > Census 3: 1920, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   >
>   > iii. FREDRICK ALBERT JOHN GERKE, b. August 09, 1882, Milwaukee,
>   > Milwaukee County, Wisconson; d. September 11, 1948, Plattsburgh,
>   > Clinton County, New York; m. EDITH GRACE LAVIGNE LAVIGNE, Aft.
>   > April 25, 1910; b. August 02, 1892, Cadyville, Clinton County,
>   > New York; d. April 18, 1967, Plattsburgh, Clinton County, New
>   > York.
>   >
>   > Notes for FREDRICK ALBERT JOHN GERKE:
>   > According to Elmer Gerke, Conrad's son Fred was in the US Army
>   > during the Spanish American War.
>   >
>   > More About FREDRICK ALBERT JOHN GERKE:
>   > Burial: Mt. Carmel Cemetery, Plattsburgh, Clinton County, New York
>   > Cause of Death: Carcinoma of Prostate
>   > Census: 1900, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   > Census 2: 1910, Plattsburgh, Clinton County, New York
>   > Census 3: 1920, Plattsburgh, Clinton County, New York
>   > Census 4: 1930, Plattsburgh, Clinton County, New York
>   > Medical Information: Cancer Metastasis to all Pelvis Structures.
>   > No Autopsy done.
>   > Occupation: 1910, Musician US ARMY
>   > Occupation 2: 1920, Painter + Musician
>   > Residence: 1920, 17 Boynton Avenue, Plattsburg, New York
>   >
>   > Notes for EDITH GRACE LAVIGNE LAVIGNE:
>   > Her Death Certificate says she was Born 08-22-1893 in
>   > Morrisonville, Clinton County New York. Some in family disagree
>   > with this date and place.
>   >
>   > More About EDITH GRACE LAVIGNE LAVIGNE:
>   > Burial: April 20, 1967, Mt. Carmel Cemetery, Plattsburgh,
>   > Clinton County, New York
>   > Cause of Death: Cachexia & Inanition due to Multiple Myeloma
>   > Census: 1920, Plattsburgh, Clinton County, New York
>   > Census 2: 1930, Plattsburgh, Clinton County, New York
>   > Christening: August 13, 1892, St. Augustine Church, Peru, Clinton
>   > County, New York
>   > Medical Information: Osteoporosis Generalized. No Autopsy
>   Preformed.
>   > Occupation: Housewife
>   > Religion: Catholic
>   >
>   > iv. MARGARETHA GERKE, b. June 20, 1884, Milwaukee, Milwaukee
>   > County, Wisconsin.
>   >
>   > More About MARGARETHA GERKE:
>   > Census: 1900, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   > Census 2: 1910, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   >
>   > v. SOPHIA ANN LIZZIE GERKE, b. June 28, 1887, Milwaukee,
>   > Milwaukee County, Wisconsin.
>   >
>   > More About SOPHIA ANN LIZZIE GERKE:
>   > Census: 1900, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   >
>   > vi. GERKE, b. April 1890, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin.
>   >
>   > More About GERKE:
>   > Census: 1900, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   >
>   > vii. EMMA AUGUSTA WILHELEMINE GERKE, b. June 01, 1892,
>   > Milwaukee, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin.
>   >
>   > More About EMMA AUGUSTA WILHELEMINE GERKE:
>   > Census: 1900, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   > Census 2: 1910, Milwaukee, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   >
>   > viii. ADELINE GERKE, b. Abt. 1893, Wisconson.
>   >
>   > More About ADELINE GERKE:
>   > Census: 1910, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   > Census 2: 1920, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   >
>   > ix. ANNA GERKE, b. Abt. 1894, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin.
>   >
>   > More About ANNA GERKE:
>   > Census: 1900, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   > Census 2: 1910, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   >
>   > x. MINNIE GERKE, b. December 1896, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin.
>   >
>   > More About MINNIE GERKE:
>   > 1910, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   >
>   > xi. HILDA GERKE, b. July 1899, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin.
>   >
>   > More About HILDA GERKE:
>   > Census: 1900, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
>   > Census 2: 1910, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   > Census 3: 1920, Greenfield, Milwaukee County, Wisconson
>   >
>   > ______________________________________________
>   >
>   > Hannover-L mailing list
>   > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>   > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
>   >
>   >
> 
> 
>   ------------------------------
> 
>   Message: 5
>   Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:52:15 -0500
>   From: mmongoose
>   Subject: Re: [HN] GEHRKE - BÜLTEMANN
>   To: Hannover-L
>   Message-ID: <4364436F.2020306(a)tds.net>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
>   There were Bultmanns living among immigrants from Hannover in Ripley
>   Co. Indiana in the mid 1800s. Some of them intermarried with my
>   RIMSTIDT/Rhemstedt ancestors from Bruchhausen. The RIMSTIDTS arrived
>   in Indiana in the early 1840s. Some of the other Hannover names were
>   SEVEUS / LUERTE / HOMFELD / LULLMAN / MEIERS / PAPPENHAUS / EHLERS.
>   (Most males seemed to use John as their given name)
> 
>   Does anyone have any strays who might fit into these families or know
>   whether any available German (presumably Protestant) church records
>   exist in the area around Bremen?
> 
> 
>   Barbara Rice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   ------------------------------
> 
>   Message: 6
>   Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 23:38:28 -0500
>   From: Mona
>   Subject: Re: [HN] GEHRKE - BÜLTEMANN
>   To: Hannover-L
>   Message-ID: <43644E44.30803(a)Sandyview.info>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
>   Bob Marhenke wrote:
>   > I too am curious if these tie into the Gerke's in my line that come
>   from
>   > the Ft Wayne Indiana area?---Bob
> 
>   Bob, have we discussed the GERKEs before? I have one (Louis) that
>   married Auguste SCHWAN in Illinois, then lived briefly in Nebraska
>   before returning to Fort Wayne.
> 
>   BTW, Richard Gerke died earlier this month. His obit and photo were
>   in
>   the on-line Fort Wayne Newspapers on 10/18/2005.
> 
> 
>   --
>   Mona Houser
>   HeritageHunt(a)sandyview.info
>   http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/
> 
> 
>   ------------------------------
> 
>   _______________________________________________
>   Hannover-L mailing list
>   Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>   http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 
>   Ende Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 23, Eintrag 35
>   ********************************************************
> 
> -- 
> ___________________________________________________
> Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> 



Re: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis

Date: 2006/01/19 13:27:27
From: Neil <newpond(a)bigpond.net.au>

Thank you Elizabeth for that record time response.

I am a little confused. From what you say it appears that my first message
did reach the list and was replied to. I must not have been properly
subscribed because I did not receive any replies so I tried subscribing
again and re-sent the original message. Apologies to all!

Louis is not my ancestor. He is one of a fairly large number of Netherlands
Consuls to Western Australia since 1863 that I am researching and I can't
afford to purchase the various certificates and searches for all of them, so
I'm gathering what I information can.

I have seen the arrival of L Demel in Victoria in 1885 on the PRO site but
there are a number of arrivals with different ages. Good point about the
possibility of an NZ naturalisation. (Thanks so much for your subsequent
posting with the details of it Elizabeth).

I have checked the bankruptcy files in the National Archives of Australia at
Perth which don't
give much personal information as well as the army service records of his
sons plus other records, one of which says Louis was born in "Hanover" (by
the way one of his sons was killed in action at Gallipoli in 1915 and 2
other sons served in France with the Australian Army).

I posted the message with my limited information on the chance that there
may be a database for Hanover similar to
the New South Wales Birth Deaths and Marriages Registry Historical Index
Search 1788 - 1975 with which the information I supplied would have found
him.

The New Zealand connection makes sense. I searched the 1901 ad 1881 English
censuses. In the 1901 census living at Stretford, Lancashire is a Carl Demel
born c. 1860 in "Germany Not naturalised" with his English born wife Helen
and 3 English born children plus a nephew, Paul C. Demel born about 1884 in
New Zealand!

Then in the 1881 English Census living at Hale, Cheshire is Hermann Demel
(Head of Household) born about 1850 at Clausthal, Germany, British Subject,
his English born wife Annie, his sister Marie Demel born about 1853 at
Clausthal, Germany, and his brother Carl Demel born about 1860 at Clausthal,
Germany. So, is Clausthal a good enough clue. Presumbley these could be the
brothers and sister of Louis. His parents names were George and Helmena
(?short for Wilhelmena??).

Thanks very much Elizabeth and John for your assistance.
Neil

----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth" <aliens(a)bigpond.net.au>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:03 PM
Subject: RE: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis


Hello Neil,

You have already been offered some good advice, and you must start your
research here in Australia and work backwards from your own parents, this
is essential before any serious research can begin in Germany.

A simple check of the passenger arrival indexes either on line or at your
local family history library for each state in Australia would have told
you that an L Demel arrived from New Zealand at the Port of Melbourne in
1885. (just go to google and type in Public Record Office Victoria and
then click on their on-line immigration index, there are several entries
for Demel)

His naturalization may well be in New Zealand as well, check this index at
your local library if available, order a copy from New Zealand, this
record may indicate if he was resident in England or America prior to his
arrival in New Zealand. Keep in mind that New Zealand was part of
Australasia until Federation in 1901. It would not have been necessary for
him to become naturalized again when here arrived in Australia.

Purchase all BDMs, or obtain copies from other researchers, collectively
they should provide you with important information which could give you
clues to his exact place of origin. Death certificates usually indicate
the number of years the deceased has been resident in the Colony.

The LDS (Mormons) have filmed a significant amount of records for Germany,
Australia and New Zealand check their "Family History Library Catalog" for
details, these records include immigration, naturalization, civil and
church records, military records, census, cemetery records, education,
apprenticeship/ guild records etc...films can be ordered  from your
nearest Mormon library, no matter where you live in Australia.

Once you identify your ancestors arrival, confirm his personal details
such as his age on arrival, at the time of his naturalization, his
marriage and when his children were born etc. serious research can begin
only when these details are known.

Check the National Archives of Australia www.naa.gov.au  there are 17
entries for Demel, most interesting is a Bankrupt Estate file for Louis
Demel, held in the "Perth office", the date range is from 1892-1960 you
should order a photocopy (fees apply) of this file and see what it
contains. Because it covers 68 years it should contain some family details
and business information.

There are numerous "Trade Mark" files held in Canberra. The Canberra files
can be ordered as on-line digital images for free. The files held in the
Melbourne office can only be photocopied and posted to you for a fee.
There is also a military service record for George Blake Demel, already
digitised on line, his mother is Mrs Marion Blake Demel of Western
Australia.

Talk to your family, include relatives, their friends and business
colleagues.

These are just a few hints to get your research started, when you have
more information I am sure there are several people on this list who will
be happy to assist you further.

Good luck.

Elizabeth
NSW Australia

At 01:34 PM 18/01/2006 -0800, you wrote:

With what you have provided, it might be best to ask what you have so far
on Louis Demel, and what record searches you have performed there locally
on your end. There seems to be a number of nebulous spaces here, normally
best addressed locally before attempting to bridge the connection on the
German side.

He was born in Hanover

Do you have anything that indicates the city of Hanover, as opposed to the
state of Hanover? Big big difference.

He died in 1939 in Sydney, Australia, but I do not have his age at death.

Do you have his death certificate and/or obituary? A cemetery or funeral
record? Naturalization papers or census listings? Do you know if he had
additional relations in Australia, and if so, have you attempted to
contact or interview them?

It might be best to indicate how much research you have done to date in
your quest, and as mentioned, what record sources you have checked on the
Australian side. This would also make it easier for listers to possibly
suggest additional advice depending on where you are at in your research.
I assume you are already familiar with Cyndi's List for record resources
in your neck of the woods?

http://www.cyndislist.com/austnz.htm#Records

You may luck out of course, but right now with what you have, it looks
more like a roll of the dice.

Jb

From: "Neil" <newpond(a)bigpond.net.au>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:31:35
+0800

Hello
I am seeking the birth details of a Wilhelm Carl Louis Demel, mostly just
known as "Louis" Demel.

He came to Australia in the 1880s. He was born in Hanover, Germany, the
son of George Demel and Helmena. I do not have his year of birth, but
most likely it would have been in the 1860s. He died in 1939 in Sydney,
Australia, but I do not have his age at death.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Neil
Australia
newpond(a)bigpond.net.au



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[HN] Re: [HNSpeckman/Leimkuehler

Date: 2006/01/19 14:15:13
From: MagdalenaJLM <MagdalenaJLM(a)aol.com>

My great great grandmother was Katherine Florentine Speckmann born 3-23-1823 
in Buerger, Oerlinghausen, she was the daughter of Philp Speckman and Anne 
Ostmeir.  Katherine married Heinrich Wilhelm Christ, Leimkuehler/Leimenkuehler of 
Haustenbeck.

Have a Nice Day!  Jill
I am currently researching the following names:
Barlag,Bochenski,Bogdanski,Bredehoft,Brinkmann,Cawley,Ciesielski,Cieszkiewiez,
Drehs,Dress,Dufelmeyer,Dufelmeier,Fuelling/Fulling,Frese,Fresen,Hunken,Klindtw
orth,Hirschy,Jalonski,Kaminski,Kozielecki,Kozielewski,Kurgan,Leimkuehler,Leime
nkuhler,Lydon,Mazgaj,Mesch,Obyc,Oesterhagen,Ostmeier/Ostmeyer,Obrock,Piechalsk
i,Pieper,Poertner,Pranten,Quell,Rak,Reker,Redecker,Schwetscher,Speckmann,Sprin
ghorn,Thiessecharpen/Thieschaper,Thunhorst,Viel/Viets,Vischer,Winteregg,Wistin
ghausen,Wolers,/Wohlerst,Zinzack, Zynczak,Zinczak
Jill Leimkuehler











(MagdalenaJLM(a)aol.com)

[HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis

Date: 2006/01/19 15:15:44
From: Rena McCarthy <rena(a)rena24.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi Neil,
Have you looked at the British naturalisation documents in the British archives? There are about half a dozen Demel's listed, documents should give all the info you require.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/default.asp?j=1

This one looks like yours and there is also a Hermann listed:-

HO 144/1145/209422
Nationality and Naturalisation:
Demel, Carl Friederich Wilhelm, from Germany.
Resident in Manchester. Certificate 20790 issued 22 September 1911.

Rena in England
=

From: "Neil" newpond(a)bigpond.net.au
Thank you Elizabeth for that record time response.
I am a little confused. From what you say it appears that my first message
did reach the list and was replied to. I must not have been properly
subscribed because I did not receive any replies so I tried subscribing
again and re-sent the original message. Apologies to all!

Louis is not my ancestor. He is one of a fairly large number of Netherlands
Consuls to Western Australia since 1863 that I am researching and I can't
afford to purchase the various certificates and searches for all of them, so
I'm gathering what I information can.

I have seen the arrival of L Demel in Victoria in 1885 on the PRO site but
there are a number of arrivals with different ages. Good point about the
possibility of an NZ naturalisation. (Thanks so much for your subsequent
posting with the details of it Elizabeth).

I have checked the bankruptcy files in the National Archives of Australia at
Perth which don't
give much personal information as well as the army service records of his
sons plus other records, one of which says Louis was born in "Hanover" (by
the way one of his sons was killed in action at Gallipoli in 1915 and 2
other sons served in France with the Australian Army).

I posted the message with my limited information on the chance that there
may be a database for Hanover similar to
the New South Wales Birth Deaths and Marriages Registry Historical Index
Search 1788 - 1975 with which the information I supplied would have found
him.

The New Zealand connection makes sense. I searched the 1901 ad 1881 English
censuses. In the 1901 census living at Stretford, Lancashire is a Carl Demel
born c. 1860 in "Germany Not naturalised" with his English born wife Helen
and 3 English born children plus a nephew, Paul C. Demel born about 1884 in
New Zealand!

Then in the 1881 English Census living at Hale, Cheshire is Hermann Demel
(Head of Household) born about 1850 at Clausthal, Germany, British Subject,
his English born wife Annie, his sister Marie Demel born about 1853 at
Clausthal, Germany, and his brother Carl Demel born about 1860 at Clausthal,
Germany. So, is Clausthal a good enough clue. Presumbley these could be the
brothers and sister of Louis. His parents names were George and Helmena
(?short for Wilhelmena??).

Thanks very much Elizabeth and John for your assistance.
Neil


[HN] kirche in die Nahe Ankum

Date: 2006/01/19 15:40:30
From: ernest . travers <ernest.travers(a)att.net>

Konnen jemand sagen welche Katholiche Kirche sind in die Nahe von Ankum ausser St. Nickolaus?

My German is terrible, I know, but can anyone tell me the names of the nearest Catholic Churches to St. Nicholas in Ankum that might have records from the early 1800's?  St. Nicholas doesn's have the records I'm looking for, but I know the family was Catholic and I know they lived near Ankum or in that general region.

Vielen Dank!!
--
Carolyn Travers

Re: [HN] (no subject)

Date: 2006/01/19 16:08:12
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi Gail,
 
Thanks so much for your great leads. Yes, I guess I was playing roulette and won with your thoughtful response.
 
Thanks again, you have pointed me to many good sources of information - I can't wait to follow up on them.
 
So far I have used online sources to research my German roots but it appears that I am at the end of the easy work and must now do some of the research in person.
 
Thanks again
 
Barney Speckman
Also of Walnut Creek
 
-----Original Message-----
From: gale(a)bosche.info
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:22:48 -0500
Subject: Re: [HN] (no subject)


Hi Barney: 
 
Barney, you are playing roulette asking if anyone on the 
list might know about your GGP and the town he came from. 
 
You need to have some facts from the States and that is 
where you are lucky. 
 
In ESS EFF you have the Herb Caen 
Library, where you can find Obits going back to the 49ers. 
Look for your GGP's Obit, it is likely to indicate where 
he came from. My GP came to the states in 1867 on the 
Bremen, a sailing steamer. There are many articles about 
the Bremen in the library's archives. 
 
The Herb Caen Magazines and Newspapers Center (5th floor) 
has magazines, newspapers, phone books and San Francisco 
City Directories. 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco, CA 
94102 · Ph: 415-557-4400 
http://sfpl.org/librarylocations/main/mags.htm 
 
Next, you have the California Genealogical Library (Sutro 
Library). It is one of the largest and best in the 
West. I found my GP's name on the passenger list of 
the Bremmen. I found my other GGP and GP's marriage 
records there (from Missiouri). If you can narrow down 
the date your GGP arrived, you can very likely find a film 
with his ship and name on it. They are in chronological 
order, which makes it easier if you have a date. 
 
Sutro Library 
480 Winston Drive 
San Francisco, CA 94132 
 
The Sutro Library has one of the largest genealogical 
collections west of Salt Lake City with extensive 
resources for states other than California and basic 
resources for California. The California Section of the 
California State Library, Sacramento, has more materials 
for California history and genealogy. 
 
http://www.onelibrary.com/Library/calslsut.htm 
 
Then you have the National Maritime Library out at Fort 
Mason. The have copies of the Lloyds Registery and photos 
of ships no one has heard of. They had a photo (yes a 
photo) of the Bremen, when it was once in SF. I also 
found many photos of the USS General Mann, the ship I went to Korea on. Many of the photos were of the (cruse) I was 
on, but I didn't see my mug. 
 
J. Porter Shaw Library at the San Francisco Maritime 
National Historical Park 
 
http://www.maritimelibraryfriends.org/ 
 
At the corner of Laguna and Beach streets 
San Francisco, California 94123 
 
 
OK, now lets go south a little. You have the National 
Records center at: 
 
http://www.archives.gov/pacific/san-francisco/ 
1000 Commodore Drive 
San Bruno, California 94066-2350 
 
Finally, there are a lot of historical churches in SF. 
Marriage records could very well be in one of the Historical Churches in SF. 
 
You have the City and County of San Francico for many other records. 
 
I would start with the obits and marraige records. 
 
Good Luck, 
 
Gale 
Walnut Creek 
 
Was at the Fog City Diner a couple of weeks ago, Farley and the Bears were not there. 
 
 
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:06:30 -0500 
 bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote: 
> Hello, 
> > I am looking for information related to my great >grandfather Frederick Speckman. 
> > He was born around 1844 in the Kingdom of Hanover and >came to the US in about 1857 and ended up in San >Francicsco where he married Anna Stoppler and had 19 >children. He died after 1910. 
> > I am trying to find out anything I can about him or his >family in Germany. Like what town he was from or who is >parents were and if his parents also came to the US. >Thanks for any help you can give me 
> > Best Regards, 
> > Barney Speckman 
> San Francisco, Califronia USA 
> ______________________________________________ 
> > Hannover-L mailing list 
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 
 
______________________________________________ 
 
Hannover-L mailing list 
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

Re: [HN] Speckman

Date: 2006/01/19 16:19:41
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

JB,
 
Thanks for your advice. I will do some more research on this side of the pond and then as you suggest be more specific in my requests. I am getting a better feeling from the traffic on this list of the complexity and addicting nature of this work. Also of how the list can be used.
 
Thanks for helping a rooky get started. 
 
Barney Speckman
 
-----Original Message-----
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Sent: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 14:15:52 -0800
Subject: RE: [HN] Speckman


First off, it is always best to include a subject line. Without one, many listers might not even look at your posting, having no idea what it might be about. I'll put my response under SPECKMAN. 
 
Much like I wrote to Neil in Australia earlier today, it might be best to indicate what record searches you have performed to date locally on the American side. Without an idea of the city or town your ancestor comes from in Germany, you are somewhat like a raft in the middle of the sea. Knowing "Hanover" and little more puts you in the Atlantic let's say, as opposed to the entire seven seas, but not much further. 
 
In a nutshell, you generally need to exhaust the available records on the local (American) side before hoping to jump the pond. Since none of us have any idea how much experience you may have, or how many records you have availed yourself to so far in this regard, it is hard to pinpoint the best approach to take or suggest. Once this is known, listers may offer up additional resources or ideas on how to proceed further. Obvious ones are records pertaining to vital stats (B-D-M), burials, obituaries, censuses and naturalizations. It simply extends in complexity from there. LDS resources as well as Internet search engines and genealogical websites are also "must" checks in ones research arsenal these days. 
 
There is also the often effective method of hiring a professional genealogist/researcher on the German side. A number of them - all quite competent - are subscribers to this list. Their services are not necessarily cheap per se, but are still often reasonable due to their expertise with the German archives and available resources on their end. But here too, unless you have a few specifics to offer regarding your antecedents location, you may be in over your head, and this will curtail their effectiveness likewise. Or at a minimum, pretty much guarantee a larger research nick. 
 
Jb 
 
>I am looking for information related to my great grandfather Frederick >Speckman. 
> 
>He was born around 1844 in the Kingdom of Hanover and came to the US in >about 1857 and ended up in San Francicsco where he married Anna Stoppler >and had 19 children. He died after 1910. 
> 
>I am trying to find out anything I can about him or his family in Germany. >Like what town he was from or who is parents were and if his parents also >came to the US. 
> 
>Thanks for any help you can give me 
> 
>Best Regards, 
> 
>Barney Speckman 
>San Francisco, Califronia USA 
 
_________________________________________________________________ 
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ 
 
______________________________________________ 
 
Hannover-L mailing list 
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http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

Re: [HN] (no subject)

Date: 2006/01/19 16:39:00
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

 Hi Barbara,
 
Wow, what great info. Yes, he was FF Speckman and he is the one from the 1880 Census in SF. Sometimes it was Francis and a middle name and sometimes listed as F. I would not be surpised if he is the same guy. He is also in the 1870, 1900 and 1910 Censuses and then vanishes which leads me to believe he died before the 1920 Census. One wife only - Anna had all 19 children. I have been told recently that he probably had two NNs at the end but dropped one as did most Speckmans who came to the US.
 
You mention in your first paragraph that I can find Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann on the emigration list. One from the Osnabruck area. Where do I get that list? Was that for 1857? See below.
 
I am in error in my original email. He was born in 1844 and came over to US in 1860 according to a US Census document so that would make him 16 when he came to the US. His future wife Anna came to US in 1857. Sorry for the confusion.
 
Barbara, thanks for the great info and tips. I will follow them up.
 
Barney Speckman
 
-----Original Message-----
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:18:48 -0700
Subject: Re: [HN] (no subject)


Hi Barney,

      If your great grandfather's name was Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann,
then he may be the one on an emigration list from the Osnabrück area.  There
is a person listed from Dom (Haste,Schinkel).  I'm not positive, but I think
those may be in or near the city of Osnabrück (from  my map it looks that
way).  He could have changed the spelling of the first name, and if the
middle name fits and if he dropped the second n in the name, this could be
your man.  If so, you can order records on him.  Speckman(n) seems to be a
fairly common German name.
    
      There are 4 other Speckmanns listed in the emigration archives:

    Speckmann, August Ferdinand    18388
    Speckmann, Cathrine Ilse    18149
    Speckmann, Dietrich Wilhelm    18388
    Speckmann, Marie Sophie 18388

      These are from the town of Uchte.

     On the other hand, there is a Friedr. Speckmann age 28 with a wife
Auguste age 20 on a ship from Hamburg in 1857:

http://immigrantships.net/v4/1800v4/main18570525.html

     Maybe first wife died before he met Anna Stoppler?  If he had 19 kids
there would probably be two wives.  Lots of women died in childbirth.

    According to your records he would have been 13 when he came to the USA?

     You should run some searches on these sites:

http://geneanet.org/
http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp
  www.familysearch.org  (the LDS site that may have some clues for you.)

    Maybe you've already looked at those sites.

      I see that he is F.F. Speakman in the 1880 census in San Francisco.
Maybe he is the guy in the emigration archives--Friedrich Ferdinand in the
first paragraph above.

Good luck,
Barbara

    





on 1/18/06 10:06 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am looking for information related to my great grandfather Frederick
> Speckman.
> 
> He was born around 1844 in the Kingdom of Hanover and came to the US in about
> 1857 and ended up in San Francicsco where he married Anna Stoppler and had 19
> children. He died after 1910.
> 
> I am trying to find out anything I can about him or his family in Germany.
> Like what town he was from or who is parents were and if his parents also came
> to the US. 
> 
> Thanks for any help you can give me
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Barney Speckman
> San Francisco, Califronia USA
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

______________________________________________

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Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
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Re: [HN] Research

Date: 2006/01/19 19:26:13
From: Sylvia Elchinger <sylvia.elchinger(a)verizon.net>

This may be slightly off-topic, but are you aware that LDS is in the process of digitizing all of its microfilm records? Go to

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/Education/frameset_education.asp?PAGE=education_conferences_fgs_2005.asp

and click on the third presentation in the list - "A Sneak Preview of the Near Future" - for details.

Regards,
Sylvia


----- Original Message ----- From: "R&B Stewart" <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:47 PM
Subject: [HN] Research


Hi J B,

     Hire a researcher???  No way, that's too easy!  You only do that when
you've exhausted every single bit of info you can find. Even then, you hope
and pray that the LDS will eventually copy all the records for EVERYWHERE.
Probably not in our lifetime. Anyway, there are so many resources that you
touch every base, beg people, search every mailing list and message board.
And Google is getting so good supplying more and more info.  The hunt is
what makes it fun.  Don't you have lots of friends and relatives who think
you're nuts??  Dead relatives? who cares?  My problem is I never know when
to stop. I should be working on some England/Scotland stuff and Bavaria
stuff and some loose ends in Hannover besides. I wish Bavaria would have a
list for English-speaking folk.  I know the Rootsweb one is there, but not
as many Germans write on that one as they do here.

  Sorry I forgot to write Speckman in my response on my last letter! That
is so helpful in the long run.

Barbara


on 1/18/06 3:15 PM, J b at johnbrene(a)hotmail.com wrote:

First off, it is always best to include a subject line. Without one, many
listers might not even look at your posting, having no idea what it might be
about. I'll put my response under SPECKMAN.

Much like I wrote to Neil in Australia earlier today, it might be best to
indicate what record searches you have performed to date locally on the
American side. Without an idea of the city or town your ancestor comes from in Germany, you are somewhat like a raft in the middle of the sea. Knowing "Hanover" and little more puts you in the Atlantic let's say, as opposed to
the entire seven seas, but not much further.

In a nutshell, you generally need to exhaust the available records on the
local (American) side before hoping to jump the pond. Since none of us have
any idea how much experience you may have, or how many records you have
availed yourself to so far in this regard, it is hard to pinpoint the best
approach to take or suggest. Once this is known, listers may offer up
additional resources or ideas on how to proceed further. Obvious ones are
records pertaining to vital stats (B-D-M), burials, obituaries, censuses and naturalizations. It simply extends in complexity from there. LDS resources as well as Internet search engines and genealogical websites are also "must"
checks in ones research arsenal these days.

There is also the often effective method of hiring a professional
genealogist/researcher on the German side. A number of them - all quite
competent - are subscribers to this list. Their services are not necessarily cheap per se, but are still often reasonable due to their expertise with the German archives and available resources on their end. But here too, unless you have a few specifics to offer regarding your antecedents location, you
may be in over your head, and this will curtail their effectiveness
likewise. Or at a minimum, pretty much guarantee a larger research nick.

Jb

I am looking for information related to my great grandfather Frederick
Speckman.

He was born around 1844 in the Kingdom of Hanover and came to the US in
about 1857 and ended up in San Francicsco where he married Anna Stoppler
and had 19 children. He died after 1910.

I am trying to find out anything I can about him or his family in Germany. Like what town he was from or who is parents were and if his parents also
came to the US.

Thanks for any help you can give me

Best Regards,

Barney Speckman
San Francisco, Califronia USA

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[HN] Giesserwerkstatt um 1500

Date: 2006/01/19 21:12:36
From: ViktorHaupt <ViktorHaupt(a)aol.com>

Liebe Listenleser,
 
ich habe da noch einmal eine spezielle Frage an die Runde:
 
Kennt jemand eine Werkstatt oder einen Meister, bei dem jemand um 1510 das  
Glocken- oder/und Büchsengießerhandwerk hat lernen können? Mit Büchsen sind 
hier  im damaligen Sprachgebrauch Kanonen gemeint.
 
Es geht um jemanden, der sich ab 1515 in Ostpreußen einen Namen als  Glocken- 
und Büchsengießer macht und dessen Herkunft im Stift Hildesheim liegen  soll. 
Und ich versuche, hierzu mögliche Quellen und Anknüpfungsmöglichkeiten zu  
finden.
 
Gab es die Möglichkeit, diese Fertigkeiten im Raum Niedersachsen (oder  
präziser im Umfeld des Stifts Hildesheim) um 1500-1515 zu erwerben? Oder mußte  man 
sich dazu woanders hin wenden? 
 
Ich freue mich über jeden kleinen Hinweis.
 
Grüße aus Berlin
Viktor Haupt

Re: [HN] kirche in die Nahe Ankum

Date: 2006/01/19 21:19:27
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

The next churches od Ankum are Fürstenau, Bersenbrück and Alfhausen:

Here a list of the Dekanat Fürstenau:

http://www.bistum-osnabrueck.de/schematismus/list.php?dekanat_id=10005

Viel Glück,
Werner

> Konnen jemand sagen welche Katholiche Kirche sind in die Nahe von Ankum
> ausser St. Nickolaus?

> My German is terrible, I know, but can anyone tell me the names of the
> nearest Catholic Churches to St. Nicholas in Ankum that might have records
> from the early 1800's?  St. Nicholas doesn's have the records I'm looking
> for, but I know the family was Catholic and I know they lived near Ankum
> or in that general region.

> Vielen Dank!!
> --
> Carolyn Travers
> ______________________________________________

> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Speckman

Date: 2006/01/19 21:23:37
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

 Hello Barney,

        Yea!  maybe we've found the "permission to emigrate" for your
Friedrich Speckmann.

       This is the way the search looks in the Osnabrück archives:

   Speckmann, Friedrich Ferdinand    22259

       That number 22259 leads to this code:

Bestell-Nr.: Staatsarchiv Osnabrück,  Rep 335 Nr. 792

     With that code, you can order the records from Osnabrück by using the
email for the Niedersaschen which is:
    Hannover(a)nla.niedersachsen.de   They will get the record and mail them
to you with a fee of maybe $25.  The price varies.
      
     I found that code number to point to Dom (Haste, Schinkel).  I
explained that in my previous letter.

      You don't really have to go through the whole process,  because I have
done  the search for you.  So that you can understand the process,  read
what follows. 
     Below is a version I put together to navigate through the emigration
archives.  It has changed now so that ordering is done through the one email
address above.  You can write in English and they will fill the order.  I
have not been so lucky to find my relatives, but others say it is a
reasonable process.  Following my "directions" below is a translation done
by Fred Rump which will explain what you might find in the records and also
some other interesting stuff.

Good luck!
Barbara

> Searching the Osnabrück, Hannover, Wolfenbüttel emigration records is done
> by going to the website:
> 
> http://app.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/findbuch/
> 
> It is a little confusing to use, especially if you don't  know German.  On
> the first page:
> Choose one of the three locations on the bar & click Abschicken
> Go to Index  in the middle  of the  page and click
> Fill in the surname you are looking for in the box "Suchbegriff"
> Choose Personen where it says nach Ort
> Click on Suchen starten and you will get a list of persons who emigrated
> from Germany with that name.  Or you may get nothing! Try the same search on
> all 3 locations.
> Note the number on the right column. That number will direct you to the
> town later.  Click on a name that matches a person you are looking for and
> you will get a code that will be what you use to order the record.
> Finding what area the person comes from is not easy.  On the Hannover
> site, it often names a town right in the code.  For Osnabrück it is harder,
> although it sometimes names the town or part of it. Don't  presume anything
> about the town . You need to go back to the page where you first clicked on
> Index and this time click on Gliederung.
> There you will see a list of towns and if you click on the numbers on
> the left, you will get a listing of the numbers of people who emigrated from
> that area.  The numbers start with 1 and go up from there.  So if the number
> is 5 digits it will be closer to the bottom of the list. But you have to go
> to the  one that has the number in it from the right column of the page with
> the list of names. When  you find the right one, the code will match the
> code you saw earlier tied to the name you were looking  for. I know this is
> confusing.  I have explained  the process many times on this site and it
> never  is very clear!
> Then, you can order the records from the archives  The email
> addresses are:
    Hannover(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
> 
> You have to realize that these emigration records cover only certain
> years--and not everybody is listed there.  None of my relatives are.  You're
> lucky if you find them!!
> If you still have trouble, let me  know personally and I will try to
> help.  Several people on the list have explained that the ordering process
> is fairly easy.  They will send you the records by regular mail and then you
> send the money ( I think  even a check will  do.)  I haven't done that part.
> It is relatively inexpensive, so I hear.  In the duplication of some names,
> I would not order records until you know whether it is your ancestor. You
> can always write to the addresses given above and maybe they can help you.
> As to what kind of information can be obtained by ordering records, I am
> including a translation of the forward from the Osnabrück page that was done
> by Fred Rump. See below.
 
> Vorword
> 
> Among the most significant social-historical phenonema of the 19th
> century was the emigration wave from German lands toward North
> America. The following directory attempts to encompass this
> emigration for the period of 1825 to 1870 for the then extant
> Landdrosteibezirk (regional administration) of Osnabrück which is
> composed out of the present Counties of Osnabrück, Emsland and
> Grafschaft Bentheim as well as the city of Osnabrück. The attempt to
> cull data out of the archive is obviously on a best effort basis and
> there is no way of knowing how many people emigrated without first
> obtaining permission. Estimates vary but illegal emigration could be
> as numerous as the legal ones.
> 
> Under emigration this document refers not only to the 'classical' use
> of the word where emigration meant to go overseas, but also any
> migration from the Kingdom of Hannover (since 1866, the Prussian
> province of Hannover) to another European state or German state. The
> given goal of destination  may not have corresponded with the actual
> goal quoted in the documents.
> 
> The source documents without exception were the files maintained by
> the Lower Saxon State Archives in Osnabrück.  Specifically the mid-
> level (Landdrostei) and lower level regional (Ämter, Vogteien)
> administrative districts as well as those documents held by the
> archive from the various city archives (for example, Osnabrück,
> Bramsche, Lingen, Neuenhaus & Quakenbrück).
> 
> The schema (classification) is ordered based upon the administrative
> districts used in the second half of the 19th century by the
> Landdrostei region of Osnabrück and encompasses next to the four
> independent cities of Lingen, Melle, Osnabrück and Quakenbrück the
> various Ämter (districts) which were in turn devided up into
> Kirchspiele (parishes).  Within the parishes the emigrants are listed
> alphabetically. The source references about any individual emigrant
> are further ordered along the following schema: (1) Name and place of
> residence, (2) date of birth or age and a birthplace if other then
> the place of residence, (3) occupation, (4) name of the parents, (5)
> family members also emigrating with reference as to their
> relationship such as wife, brother, daughter, son etc., (6) religious
> affiliation, (7) goal of emigration, (8) emigrations timing,
> mentioned is the exact date but sometimes only the year an emigration
> pass, a consent agreement was issued or the year the home residence
> was vacated, (9) value of possessions, (10) comments, here follows an
> abbreviated explanation giving the reasons of emigration for example
> via references to family status or economical situations.
> 
> Archivist Herbert Budde did the analysis of the documents. He had
> completed this task in 1982. Data entry was accomplished using
> various available labor resources. The primary destination goal of
> the emigrants leaving the area of Osnabrück was the USA with the most
> often given city destinations being: Baltimore, Cincinnati, New York
> and St. Louis. The city of Milwaukee, as well as the state of
> Wisconsin, appear noticeably seldom in the sources even though this
> area was a main destination of German emigration to America. People
> from Osnabrück also emigrated to Argentina, Australia and Brazil. One
> even finds individuals going to Chile, Cuba and the Dutch East/West
> Indies.  The Netherlands without question dominates the number of
> emigrants within the European state system. One needs to remember
> though that the often mentioned goal of Amsterdam was not necessarily
> a final destination point for the folks going there. It may well have
> been nothing but an interim stop over for people going somewhere
> overseas. The difficulties and dangers of an overseas emigration in
> the 19th century can not be overemphasized - in the beginning it was
> on sailboats and later on steamers. The most common explanation of
> the 'why' of emigration that is revealed by the documents is the hope
> for a 'better life'. By itself this indicates that the predominant
> emigration push comes from the lowest and underprivileged social
> strata of society who would dare all to achieve their goal especially
> for their children. In the emigrant records of the people from
> Osnabrück the most common occupations listed are maid, male and
> female farm servants or day laborers. We can therefore assume that
> the majority of the emigrants were landless and dependent workers in
> a largely agrarian society. On the other hand we also find many
> craftsmen and laborers. To complete the scenario there were
> sculptors, men of the cloth, gymnasts and literary types who also made their
> way overseas. 
> 
> 



on 1/19/06 8:38 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:



> Hi Barbara,
> 
> Wow, what great info. Yes, he was FF Speckman and he is the one from the 1880
> Census in SF. Sometimes it was Francis and a middle name and sometimes listed
> as F. I would not be surpised if he is the same guy. He is also in the 1870,
> 1900 and 1910 Censuses and then vanishes which leads me to believe he died
> before the 1920 Census. One wife only - Anna had all 19 children. I have been
> told recently that he probably had two NNs at the end but dropped one as did
> most Speckmans who came to the US.
> 
> You mention in your first paragraph that I can find Friedrich Ferdinand
> Speckmann on the emigration list. One from the Osnabruck area. Where do I get
> that list? Was that for 1857? See below.
> 
> I am in error in my original email. He was born in 1844 and came over to US in
> 1860 according to a US Census document so that would make him 16 when he came
> to the US. His future wife Anna came to US in 1857. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> Barbara, thanks for the great info and tips. I will follow them up.
> 
> Barney Speckman
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:18:48 -0700
> Subject: Re: [HN] (no subject)
> 
> 
> Hi Barney,
> 
> If your great grandfather's name was Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann,
> then he may be the one on an emigration list from the Osnabrück area.  There
> is a person listed from Dom (Haste,Schinkel).  I'm not positive, but I think
> those may be in or near the city of Osnabrück (from  my map it looks that
> way).  He could have changed the spelling of the first name, and if the
> middle name fits and if he dropped the second n in the name, this could be
> your man.  If so, you can order records on him.  Speckman(n) seems to be a
> fairly common German name.
> 
> There are 4 other Speckmanns listed in the emigration archives:
> 
> Speckmann, August Ferdinand    18388
> Speckmann, Cathrine Ilse    18149
> Speckmann, Dietrich Wilhelm    18388
> Speckmann, Marie Sophie 18388
> 
> These are from the town of Uchte.
> 
> On the other hand, there is a Friedr. Speckmann age 28 with a wife
> Auguste age 20 on a ship from Hamburg in 1857:
> 
> http://immigrantships.net/v4/1800v4/main18570525.html
> 
> Maybe first wife died before he met Anna Stoppler?  If he had 19 kids
> there would probably be two wives.  Lots of women died in childbirth.
> 
> According to your records he would have been 13 when he came to the USA?
> 
> You should run some searches on these sites:
> 
> http://geneanet.org/
> http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp
> www.familysearch.org  (the LDS site that may have some clues for you.)
> 
> Maybe you've already looked at those sites.
> 
> I see that he is F.F. Speakman in the 1880 census in San Francisco.
> Maybe he is the guy in the emigration archives--Friedrich Ferdinand in the
> first paragraph above.
> 
> Good luck,
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on 1/18/06 10:06 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I am looking for information related to my great grandfather Frederick
>> Speckman.
>> 
>> He was born around 1844 in the Kingdom of Hanover and came to the US in about
>> 1857 and ended up in San Francicsco where he married Anna Stoppler and had 19
>> children. He died after 1910.
>> 
>> I am trying to find out anything I can about him or his family in Germany.
>> Like what town he was from or who is parents were and if his parents also
>> came
>> to the US. 
>> 
>> Thanks for any help you can give me
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Barney Speckman
>> San Francisco, Califronia USA
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis

Date: 2006/01/19 21:35:54
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Good to see you're onboard satisfactorily Neil. Was wondering what was up with you for a while there.

For all it's worth, you're in good company here in facing the NUMBER ONE stickler of German genealogical research :: trying to pinpoint the ancestral hub of your family. Nothing unique in the least. As many as not on this list (and elsewhere) are in identical waters, on some or all of their German family lines. It is the holy grail of Germanic family research, and can sometimes take years to figure out. Often it comes down to the tiniest clue, when easy or give-away ones are not to be found. Before the onset of database indexing and the array of Internet resources we now have, it was an even more daunting task. Thus the reason those who have traversed these trails for any amount of time will tell you too search high and low for clues, and not to quit before all available resources have been exhausted. Even then, there will always be new offerings being rendered, the result of ongoing data mining and database indexing, as well as the proliferation of information now accessible thanks to the Internet.

Over time, those who don't have the stomach for slow burn returns will invariably fade away, or hang up their hats. But if there is one story that gets told time and again, it is the one where - when you least expect it - something is uncovered that finally turns the tide. The larger you cast your net, the greater chance you have to reel in that magic bullet. Don't lose heart also if you hit upon names that look tantalizingly similar to yours, only to determine they are not the correct ones. When you are talking of millions upon millions of souls, many will carry similar or identical names, often in age brackets to match.

I can see you have done a fair share of work to date. That being the case, you're half way there in your quest already. Whether or not your post here brings laudable or immediate results, take heart that you have at least placed your namesake(s) in the list archives. Anyone performing a search for that surname should locate it, along with your name and addy. Plus you will benefit from others' suggestions and approaches, whether directly or indirectly. In the end it is going to come down to how much you really want to find this connection, since it may not come easy. They rarely do.

Good luck. Jb

Thanks very much Elizabeth and John for your assistance.
Neil

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


Re: [HN] Research

Date: 2006/01/19 21:44:47
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Nice offering Sylvia. The future for such undertakings is only getting rosier. When the vast resources and know-how of the LDS organization (along with progressive firms like Ancestry.com, et al) fully synthesizes with digital technology, we will all be the blessed recipients. It is truly the dawning of a new genealogical age. Who could have guessed the impact of the transistor and microchip in so many ways?

Jb

From: "Sylvia Elchinger" <sylvia.elchinger(a)verizon.net>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] Research
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:20:33 -0500

This may be slightly off-topic, but are you aware that LDS is in the process of digitizing all of its microfilm records? Go to

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/Education/frameset_education.asp?PAGE=education_conferences_fgs_2005.asp

and click on the third presentation in the list - "A Sneak Preview of the Near Future" - for details.

Regards,
Sylvia

_________________________________________________________________
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[HN] Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/19 22:11:31
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

Hello to All
I just returned from a visit to my local LDS Library and the County Library. I may have a breakthrough in my search for Julian Wilhelm Burgdorf. The LDS library had in stock a roll of film for Hannover emigration for the years of 1834 - 1913. I found J. W. Burgdorf who emigrated from Hamburg to New Orleans in 1859 with the same information that I have already compiled with one exception - it listed the place of origin. Julius has noted on New Orleans records that he was from Hildeshein in Hanover. The record I just found states that his Place of Origin is Baddekenstadt-Hannover. The volunteer there could not help me locate the town on maps he had. I went to the public library and there on a relativley new map of Germany I found it. It appears to be a small village about 10-15 Kilometers SE of Hildesheim. His occupation is listed on the record as comms, the last letter could be an n, a, e - the type image is blurred. In my data he is listed as a clerk.
I have done nothing yet to pursue my findings. I am open to suggestions. Church records will definitely be a direction as will be civil records. I also requested film that gives emigration records for Hannover for the same years, 1834 - 1913. This may wind up as duplication but the films have different order numbers. 
I also hope to look for current telephone numbers.
Max 

RE: [HN] Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/19 22:27:02
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

Max I'll leave it to others to make suggestions but I wanted to say congratulations. You have worked hard in this regard, and justly deserve any rewards that follow. All can learn form those who refuse to quit!

Salute. Jb

Hello to All
I just returned from a visit to my local LDS Library and the County Library. I may have a breakthrough in my search for Julian Wilhelm Burgdorf. The LDS library had in stock a roll of film for Hannover emigration for the years of 1834 - 1913. I found J. W. Burgdorf who emigrated from Hamburg to New Orleans in 1859 with the same information that I have already compiled with one exception - it listed the place of origin. Julius has noted on New Orleans records that he was from Hildeshein in Hanover. The record I just found states that his Place of Origin is Baddekenstadt-Hannover. The volunteer there could not help me locate the town on maps he had. I went to the public library and there on a relativley new map of Germany I found it. It appears to be a small village about 10-15 Kilometers SE of Hildesheim. His occupation is listed on the record as comms, the last letter could be an n, a, e - the type image is blurred. In my data he is listed as a clerk. I have done nothing yet to pursue my findings. I am open to suggestions. Church records will definitely be a direction as will be civil records. I also requested film that gives emigration records for Hannover for the same years, 1834 - 1913. This may wind up as duplication but the films have different order numbers.
I also hope to look for current telephone numbers.
Max

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Re: [HN] Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/19 22:42:36
From: Werner Honkomp <werner(a)honkomp.de>

Here some addresses:

Burgdorf, Berit - Mobile-Phone: 0170 1485507
  382.. Baddeckenstedt*

Burgdorf, Berit  - 05345 493640
  Breslauer Weg 9
  38271 Baddeckenstedt

Burgdorf, Herbert Landw. - 05345 264
  382.. Baddeckenstedt*

Burgdorf, Otto Dipl.Ing. agr. - Phone 05062 8852
  Hildesheimer Str. 6
  38271 Baddeckenstedt

Burgdorf, Wilhelm - 05345 4047
  382.. Baddeckenstedt*

Good luck,
Werner


> Hello to All
> I just returned from a visit to my local LDS Library and the County
> Library. I may have a breakthrough in my search for Julian Wilhelm
> Burgdorf. The LDS library had in stock a roll of film for Hannover
> emigration for the years of 1834 - 1913. I found J. W. Burgdorf who
> emigrated from Hamburg to New Orleans in 1859 with the same information
> that I have already compiled with one exception - it listed the place of
> origin. Julius has noted on New Orleans records that he was from
> Hildeshein in Hanover. The record I just found states that his Place of
> Origin is Baddekenstadt-Hannover. The volunteer there could not help me
> locate the town on maps he had. I went to the public library and there on
> a relativley new map of Germany I found it. It appears to be a small
> village about 10-15 Kilometers SE of Hildesheim. His occupation is listed
> on the record as comms, the last letter could be an n, a, e - the type
> image is blurred. In my data he is listed as a clerk.
> I have done nothing yet to pursue my findings. I am open to suggestions.
> Church records will definitely be a direction as will be civil records. I
> also requested film that gives emigration records for Hannover for the
> same years, 1834 - 1913. This may wind up as duplication but the films
> have different order numbers.
> I also hope to look for current telephone numbers.
> Max
> ______________________________________________

> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Speckman

Date: 2006/01/19 22:50:09
From: J b <johnbrene(a)hotmail.com>

You're beyond the rookie stage because you have tested the waters and are now willing to dive in. With that attitude, you certainly won't sink. Gail and Barbara laid out some helpful specifics, where I prefer to generalize. Don't overlook what Sven posted either. Keep that list of names and numbers in the background somewhere. You never know if it may come in handy at some point. It may be too early to tell yet, but you never know. Now I see someone else here is hunting for Speckmans/Speckmanns. Time to trade notes!

Hopefully you'll stay active on H-L. Everyone's inputs are welcome, large and small. It's what makes this list "happen". If you were to follow the trials and tribulations of Max B here, you will see how persistence can indeed pay off. And that persistence was in part fired by list members' suggestions. This should be a blueprint from which everyone can take heart.

Good luck. Jb

From: bmspeckman(a)aol.com
To: hannover-l(a)genealogy.net
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:19:15 -0500

JB,

Thanks for your advice. I will do some more research on this side of the pond and then as you suggest be more specific in my requests. I am getting a better feeling from the traffic on this list of the complexity and addicting nature of this work. Also of how the list can be used.

Thanks for helping a rooky get started.

Barney Speckman

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Re: [HN] Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/20 01:03:55
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hey! The prospector hit gold!! Let's hope it is a large vein.

Good luck Max.

Gale


On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:11:22 -0800
 <pharmaxx(a)charter.net> wrote:
Hello to All
I just returned from a visit to my local LDS Library and the County Library. I may have a breakthrough in my search for Julian Wilhelm Burgdorf. The LDS library had in stock a roll of film for Hannover emigration for the years of 1834 - 1913. I found J. W. Burgdorf who emigrated from Hamburg to New Orleans in 1859 with the same information that I have already compiled with one exception - it listed the place of origin. Julius has noted on New Orleans records that he was from Hildeshein in Hanover. The record I just found states that his Place of Origin is Baddekenstadt-Hannover. The volunteer there could not help me locate the town on maps he had. I went to the public library and there on a relativley new map of Germany I found it. It appears to be a small village about 10-15 Kilometers SE of Hildesheim. His occupation is listed on the record as comms, the last letter could be an n, a, e - the type image is blurred. In my data he is listed as a clerk. I have done nothing yet to pursue my findings. I am open to suggestions. Church records will definitely be a direction as will be civil records. I also requested film that gives emigration records for Hannover for the same years, 1834 - 1913. This may wind up as duplication but the films have different order numbers. I also hope to look for current telephone numbers. Max ______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


Re: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis

Date: 2006/01/20 04:16:30
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"Neil" <newpond(a)bigpond.net.au> schrieb:
....
> Then in the 1881 English Census living at Hale, Cheshire is Hermann Demel
> (Head of Household) born about 1850 at Clausthal, Germany, British Subject,
> his English born wife Annie, his sister Marie Demel born about 1853 at
> Clausthal, Germany, and his brother Carl Demel born about 1860 at Clausthal,
> Germany. So, is Clausthal a good enough clue. Presumbley these could be the
> brothers and sister of Louis. His parents names were George and Helmena
> (?short for Wilhelmena??).
....

Hello Neil,

might be of interest for you. We have in 1998 a Marie DEMEL in 38678 Clausthal-Zellerfeld , Österöder Str. 53, Tel. 05323 78545. She is also the only DEMEL in Clausthal at that time having a telefone entry. Maybe your line and a translated letter will bring you more information.

Greetings               

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel


Re: [HN] Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/20 04:56:39
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hello Max!  
        How exciting!  I hope this turns out to be the birthplace of your
Julius Burgfdorf!  Congratulations!  You have  worked so hard.  Werner
Honkamp gave you the Burgdorf names in Baddeckenstedt.  Let's hope that
there is someone there who can help you.
      Meanwhile, I'm going to be doing lots of online searches for Burgdorf
families in Baddeckenstedt.
Barbara



on 1/19/06 2:11 PM, pharmaxx(a)charter.net at pharmaxx(a)charter.net wrote:

> Hello to All
> I just returned from a visit to my local LDS Library and the County Library. I
> may have a breakthrough in my search for Julian Wilhelm Burgdorf. The LDS
> library had in stock a roll of film for Hannover emigration for the years of
> 1834 - 1913. I found J. W. Burgdorf who emigrated from Hamburg to New Orleans
> in 1859 with the same information that I have already compiled with one
> exception - it listed the place of origin. Julius has noted on New Orleans
> records that he was from Hildeshein in Hanover. The record I just found states
> that his Place of Origin is Baddekenstadt-Hannover. The volunteer there could
> not help me locate the town on maps he had. I went to the public library and
> there on a relativley new map of Germany I found it. It appears to be a small
> village about 10-15 Kilometers SE of Hildesheim. His occupation is listed on
> the record as comms, the last letter could be an n, a, e - the type image is
> blurred. In my data he is listed as a clerk.
> I have done nothing yet to pursue my findings. I am open to suggestions.
> Church records will definitely be a direction as will be civil records. I also
> requested film that gives emigration records for Hannover for the same years,
> 1834 - 1913. This may wind up as duplication but the films have different
> order numbers. 
> I also hope to look for current telephone numbers.
> Max 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] the name Jobst

Date: 2006/01/20 05:00:21
From: DKnoepfel <DKnoepfel(a)aol.com>

Does anyone know what the given name of Jobst might become  in  English.  I 
have not run into this given name before.  I have a family  member who married 
a Jobst Behning in Illinois and I cannot find anything on a  person by that 
name.
 
Thanks for your help.
Don

Re: [HN] the name Jobst

Date: 2006/01/20 05:20:00
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Don:

Here is an URL which may help:
http://www.ancestry.com/search/SurnamePage.aspx?html=b&ln=Jobst&sourcecode=13304

What does the Jobst name mean?
Last Name: Jobst
German: from the Biblical name Job, influenced by Jost (see Joost). Gale

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:00:07 EST
 DKnoepfel(a)aol.com wrote:
Does anyone know what the given name of Jobst might become in English. I have not run into this given name before. I have a family member who married a Jobst Behning in Illinois and I cannot find anything on a person by that name.

Thanks for your help.
Don
______________________________________________

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Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
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Re: [HN] the name Jobst

Date: 2006/01/20 05:26:54
From: DKnoepfel <DKnoepfel(a)aol.com>

Thank you Gale
 
Don

Re: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis

Date: 2006/01/20 05:36:59
From: Neil <newpond(a)bigpond.net.au>

Thanks very much Elizabeth. I had tried the NZ Nat Archives site before but when searching on Demel I just got a company from the 1970s. I thought it just went to series level not item level. How did you get that reference?

All the best
Neil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth" <aliens(a)bigpond.net.au>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: RE: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis


Hello Neil,

Wilhelm Carl Louis Demel occupation Merchant, was naturalized in Dunedin New Zealand 1 September 1885

no other reference given on the index, you will need to contact http://www.archives.govt.nz/doingresearch/researchinfo/refform_intro.php

you can make an online request for his naturalisation documents to be sent to you, if you do not have anyone in New Zealand to go to the Archives on your behalf.

Elizabeth


--
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Re: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis

Date: 2006/01/20 07:14:40
From: Neil <newpond(a)bigpond.net.au>

Thank you very much Hans Peter
Neil
----- Original Message ----- From: <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis


"Neil" <newpond(a)bigpond.net.au> schrieb:
....
Then in the 1881 English Census living at Hale, Cheshire is Hermann Demel
(Head of Household) born about 1850 at Clausthal, Germany, British Subject,
his English born wife Annie, his sister Marie Demel born about 1853 at
Clausthal, Germany, and his brother Carl Demel born about 1860 at Clausthal, Germany. So, is Clausthal a good enough clue. Presumbley these could be the
brothers and sister of Louis. His parents names were George and Helmena
(?short for Wilhelmena??).
....

Hello Neil,

might be of interest for you. We have in 1998 a Marie DEMEL in 38678 Clausthal-Zellerfeld , Österöder Str. 53, Tel. 05323 78545. She is also the only DEMEL in Clausthal at that time having a telefone entry. Maybe your line and a translated letter will bring you more information.

Greetings

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l



Re: [HN] Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/20 08:51:15
From: Erika Giftge <giftge(a)t-online.de>

Hi Max,

I don't know if you remember that I wrote to you long ago when you just started your search. I live quite near to Baddeckenstedt and could offer to help you:

a) the church records should be in a town called Sehlde
They have times during the week when the church records can be searched; don't know exactly when at the moment.

b) Asking for civil records at the town hall

c) make phone calls to people by that name in todays Baddeckenstedt.

Let me know , what I should do.
If you want my help, it would be helpful if you would once again send the exact data you have compiled to my home address, then I do not need to go through 1000 emails.

Since I am engaged at the moment in caring for my mom and redecorating our home, It may not be possible to do the research right away, so if somebody else is there to help earlier, this would be fine also.

Erika

----- Original Message ----- From: <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>
To: "Burgdorf Search" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:11 PM
Subject: [HN] Burgdorf


Hello to All
I just returned from a visit to my local LDS Library and the County Library. I may have a breakthrough in my search for Julian Wilhelm Burgdorf. The LDS library had in stock a roll of film for Hannover emigration for the years of 1834 - 1913. I found J. W. Burgdorf who emigrated from Hamburg to New Orleans in 1859 with the same information that I have already compiled with one exception - it listed the place of origin. Julius has noted on New Orleans records that he was from Hildeshein in Hanover. The record I just found states that his Place of Origin is Baddekenstadt-Hannover. The volunteer there could not help me locate the town on maps he had. I went to the public library and there on a relativley new map of Germany I found it. It appears to be a small village about 10-15 Kilometers SE of Hildesheim. His occupation is listed on the record as comms, the last letter could be an n, a, e - the type image is blurred. In my data he is listed as a clerk. I have done nothing yet to pursue my findings. I am open to suggestions. Church records will definitely be a direction as will be civil records. I also requested film that gives emigration records for Hannover for the same years, 1834 - 1913. This may wind up as duplication but the films have different order numbers.
I also hope to look for current telephone numbers.
Max
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Antw: [HN] Kirchen in die Naehe von Ankum

Date: 2006/01/20 11:42:12
From: Falk Liebezeit <Falk.Liebezeit(a)diepholz.de>

Dear Mrs. Travers, 

The catholic neighbouring church parishes of Ankum are:
(in the sense of the clockhand: )
kathol. Nachbargemeinden von Ankum, im Uhrzeigersinn

Badbergen, Neuenkirchen (Amt Voerden, nowadays Neuenkirchen-Voerden or Neuenkirchen in Oldenburg), 
Alfhausen
Merzen
Schwagstorf
Bippen
Berge

Out of a book, I have scanned a map showing the
churchparishes in the Osnabrueck region, 
if you are interested, I might send it as a jpg file.

Sincerely yours 

Falk Liebezeit
Diepholz 


>>> ernest.travers(a)att.net 01/19 3:39  >>>
Konnen jemand sagen welche Katholiche Kirche sind in die Nahe von Ankum ausser St. Nickolaus?

My German is terrible, I know, but can anyone tell me the names of the nearest Catholic Churches to St. Nicholas in Ankum that might have records from the early 1800's?  St. Nicholas doesn's have the records I'm looking for, but I know the family was Catholic and I know they lived near Ankum or in that general region.

Vielen Dank!!
--

Carolyn Travers


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Re: [HN] the name Jobst

Date: 2006/01/20 11:47:29
From: Erika Giftge <giftge(a)t-online.de>

Hi Don,

my Jobst became Joseph in the US
Erika

----- Original Message ----- From: <DKnoepfel(a)aol.com>
To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 5:00 AM
Subject: [HN] the name Jobst


Does anyone know what the given name of Jobst might become in English. I have not run into this given name before. I have a family member who married a Jobst Behning in Illinois and I cannot find anything on a person by that
name.

Thanks for your help.
Don
______________________________________________

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Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
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[HN] Emsland Adel/ Günter Jüchter

Date: 2006/01/20 13:13:33
From: Pschwenkedu <Pschwenkedu(a)aol.com>

Hallo Herr Jüchter !
Vielen Dank für die Aufstellung, leider finde ich keine Verbindungen im Raum 
Landegge,obwohl  Everhard von Schwenke dort  1271 urkundlich benannt ist, nach 
der Beschädigung der Fresenburg durch Hochwasser bis zum Bau Fresenburg II in 
Ladegge gelebt haben soll. Gefunden habe ich Verbindungen zu den von Düthe, 
den v Fresenburg, dem Knappen Kanne, den von der Veer, der iden Hof in 
Niederlangen hatte und die Fähre und Wasserrechte als Mitgift erhielt.Die 
Verschwägerung mit den v.Langen ist dann erst nach 14oo..Es ist sehr dürftig, was von 
Landegge und Fresenburg überliefert ist.
Vil Hinweise aben wir durch nochmaliger genauer Übersetzung alter Urkunden 
erhalten.Es ist festgestellt das die Übersetzung nur in der Generalaussage 
erfolgte. Bei genauer fast wörtlicher Bearbeitung und mit Abgleichen mit 
Geschichtsforschern kamen  neue Erkenntnisse. Also, ma verlasse sich nicht auf die 
Übersetzungen.
Ich werde Ihre Hinweise auflassen und wenn sich etwas ergiebt melde ich mich.
MfG
Paul W Schwenke Duisburg

Re: [HN] the name Jobst

Date: 2006/01/20 13:54:32
From: DKnoepfel <DKnoepfel(a)aol.com>

Hi Erika -
 
Thanks - I wondered about Jobst becoming Joseph.
 
Don

[HN] Neuvorstellung Wrede, Tietjen, Krüger , Bollhorst, Stellmann

Date: 2006/01/20 15:23:24
From: klaus . wrede <klaus.wrede(a)arcor.de>

Hallo liebe Listenteilnehmer,

nach 1 1/2 Jahren stelle ich mal wieder nachstehend meine derzeitigen Spitzenahnen vor:

Gerd Hinrich Wrede, *10.02.1791 in Barrien, +09.09.1857 in Embsen (Achim)
Vater Johann Wilhelm Wrede, Häusling in Barrien, Mutter Gesche Lübkemann
oo Gesche Siems (Siemers), *00.12.1792 in ?, +14.03.1846 in Riede
Eltern unbekannt
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barthold Nordloh, *1803 in ?, + ?
Vater Harm Nordloh * ?, + vor 18.09.1831
oo 18.09.1831 Margarete Elisabeth Jägeler, *1806, + ?
Vater Jürgen Jägeler, Anbauer in Baden (Achim)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hermann Meyer, *09.02.1832 in Ueserköben (Achim), + ?
Vater Johann Meyer, *1795, Häusling und Tagelöhner in Uesen
Mutter Margarethe Landversicht, *1805
oo 30.01.1857 Johanna Wätjen *07.07.1832 in Uesen, * ?
Vater Johann Hinrich Wätjen, * 1784, Anbauer in Uesen, + ?
Mutter Margarete Behnken, *1800, + ?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Tietjen, *08.09.1775 in Mahndorf, + ?
Vater Daniel Tietjen, Baumann, Mutter Becke NN
oo 27.07.1810 Wübcke Wurtmann, * 05.02.1786 in Mahndorf, + ?
Vater Johann Hinrich Wurtmann, Sohn von Johann Wurtmann
(oo24.11.1775 Arbergen) Mutter Wübke Siems, Tochter von Hinrich Siems
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dettmar Eggers, Baumann
Vater Hinrich Eggers, Brinksitzer, * ?, + vor 01.12.1785
oo 01.12.1785 Bollen Wibke Meiers * ?, + ?
Vater Johann Meiers, Brinksitzer, * ?, + vor 01.12.1785
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Johann Eggers, *07.01.1784 Bollen, 26.11.1860 Bollen
Sohn von Dettmar Eggers und Wibke Meiers (vorgenannte)
oo 03.10.1819 Margarethe Dorothea Hahnenfeld, *17.08.1797, 25.04.1842 Bollen
Vater Johann Hahnenfeld, Baumann in Schwarme im Amte Westen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reinke Meier, Halbmeyer in Einste, *1689, + 20.01.1741 in Einste
 oo Catharine Elisabeth Meyer, *1695, +13.11.1785 in Einste
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hermann Hinrich Meyer (Ur-Ur-Enkel von Reinke Meier), *25.05.1800, +30.04.1869 Einste
oo 14.10.1831 in Blender Catarina Margarete Spöring, *1809 in Einste, +07.12.1838 in Einste
Vater Johann Diedrich Spöring, Mutter NN Margarete von Engeln
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Johann Dietrich Wätje, *in Hollen/Martfeld, +28.03.1837 in Blender
Vater Heinrich Diedrich Wätje aus Hollen, Mutter Anne Meyer aus Felde
oo 15.11.1787 in Blender Anna Margarethe Lakemann, *23.09.1769 Gahlstorf, +04.04.1811
in Blender, Ur-Ur-Enkelin von Lüder Lackemann, Vollmeyer in Gahlstorf, *1637 in Gahlstorf
+05.06.1703 in Gahlstorf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Johann Harm Klinker, Halbmeyer in Blender, *17.08.1763 in Holtum +vor Nov.1816 Blender
oo 25.06.1784 in Blender Anne Margrete Lakemann *02.04.1763 in Blender, +26.11.1807 in
Blender
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Johann Andreas Heinrich Krieger (Krüger) Müllergeselle in Horneburg, *18.07.1811 in
Wehre am Harz, Vater Daniel Krüger, Häusling und Schneider in Wehre, Mutter Maria
Elisabeth Müller, * ? + vor 11.04.1837
oo 11.04.1837 in Hornburg Johanne Dorothea Henriette Ernst, *22.09.1808 in Hornburg,
+ 23.05.1869 Hornburg
Vater Heinrich Ernst, Bürger und Schneidermeister in Hornburg, * ?, + 10.09.1808 in
Hornburg, Sohn des Heinrich Ernst, Zehntner in Burgdorf
Mutter Dorothee Marie Fricke (Fricken), oo 26.12.1805 Hornburg/Werningerode, Tochter
des Johann Georg Fricke, Bürger in Hornburg
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Johann Carl Friedrich Allewelt, *21.11.1814 in Zorge, +11.02.1874 in Seesen, Gastgeber
und früher herrschaftlicher Bergmann in Seesen, Vater Christian Heinrich Allewelt, *1779
Bergmann, MutterSophie Caroline Kirchner, *1779
oo 18.02.1855 Seesen, Wilhelmine Rudolphine Henriette „Christiane“ Weber, *06.07.1822
in Seesen, +15.02.1874 in Seesen, Vater Gerhard Tobias Andreas Weber (Wieber), Bürger
Leineweber und Hausschlachter in Seesen, Mutter Johanne Sophie Antonetta Eikert, *1780
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arnold Christoph Bollhorst, *06.07.1786 Eckendorf Arrode, Heuerling, +03.01.1862 in
Kentruperhagen, Vater Franz Henrich Bollhorst, *1760 Eckendorf Arrode, + in Rhaden
Mutter (oo 23.04.1786 in Heepen, Kreis Bielefeld) Anna Catharina Louisa Bernings *1762
oo 25.02.1827 in Schötmar, Luise Amalie Koch, *16.11.1800 in Sylbach, +15.02.1856 in Kentruperhagen, Vater Toens Henrich Koch, Einlieger in Kentruperhagen, Mutter Catrine
Ilsabein Echterdieks von der Kütterheide
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bernd Henrich Christoph Kulemann *25.10.1798 in Wissentrup, Einlieger, +12.07.1860
in Wissentrup, Vater Johann Henrich Kulemann
oo 24.11.1822 in Lage, Anna Margarethe Sofie Luise Mesch *23.03.1794 in Wissentrup,
+07.05.1873 in Wissentrup, Vater Johann Arend Mesch,
Mutter Anne Margrete Ilsabein Holsten
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Otto Heinrich Adolph Letmate (auch Fröhlike), *13.03.1781 in Pottenhausen, +31.05.1847
in Ohrsen, Vater Johann Cord Fröhlike, Mutter Anne Margarete Simanns
oo 28.10.1810 in Lage, Anna Marie Stratemann, *27.07.1783 in Greste, +20.03.1854 Ohrsen
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
entweder Johan Henrich Stückemann, getauft 01.04.1742 oder Henrich Hermann Stückemann, getauft 14.03.1738 in Mackenbruch bei Oerlinghausen (weitere Vorfahren bekannt)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anne Margarethe Elisabeth Vogt *18.03.1787 in Asemissen, +06.03.1862 in Müssen,
Schwiegertochter von vorgen. H. Stückemann
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hermann Heinrich Georg Stellmann, *15.07.1880 in Strange (Werbleck), +vor 1918
Vater Heinrich Stellmann, Mutter Sophie Kramer
oo Gesine Margarethe Behring, Vater Christian Behring, Mutter Else Mester
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christian “Hermann” Heinrich Wilhelm Lintelmann, *15.03.1854 Scharringhausen,
Neubauer, +Holzhausen/Sulingen, Vater Friedrich Wilhelm Christoph Lintelmann,
Neubauer in Scharringhausen, +vor 15.01.1897, Mutter Marie Sophie Dorothea Karoline
Sprick, +vor 15.01.1897
oo 15.01.1897 in Kirchdorf Marie Sophie Minna Rohde *13.01.1875 in Holzhausen,
Haustochter, Vater Friedrich Heinrich Karl Rohde, *16.03.???? in Scharringhausen,
Landwirt in Holzhausen, Kreis Grafschaft Diepholz, Mutter Marie Sophie Wilhelmine
Niemeyer *13.01.???? in Holzhausen,
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Über weitere Informationen wäre ich sehr dankbar.
Ich wünsche allen ein schönes Wochenende
Klaus (Wrede)


Machen Sie aus 14 Cent spielend bis zu 100 Euro!
Die neue Gaming-Area von Arcor - über 50 Onlinespiele im Angebot.
http://www.arcor.de/rd/emf-gaming-1

[HN] Hannoversche und Lindener Geschichte, Berufe

Date: 2006/01/20 15:32:54
From: Jane <jane99(a)gmx.net>

Hallo liebe Listenmitglieder,

vor einiger Zeit habe ich bereits die Namen unter anderem meines Urgroßvaters und dessen Vaters genannt:

Robert Artur Otto MICHALSKI *1905 in (Hannover-)Linden und sein Vater
Emil Franz MICHALSKI.

Ich habe mich mittlerweile etwas mit den damaligen Lebensumständen in Linden beschäftigt. Leider weiß ich nicht viel von meinen Familienangehörigen.
Aber ich beschäftige mich zur Zeit mit folgenden Fragen:

Mein Ururgroßvater Emil Michalski soll als Schreiber gearbeitet haben. Das ist ein weit gefasster Begriff. Weiß jemand, was für eine Anstellung als Schreiber typisch war? Ich würde die Zeitung vermuten!? Und was für Zeitungen gab es zu jener Zeit in der Gegend? Gibt es Archive, in denen ich suchen kann?
Zur Geburt seines Sohnes lebte Emil Michalski in der Deisterstraße.
Über Herkunft und Verbleib Emils ist mir nichts bekannt, mir ist aber sehr wohl bewusst, dass es zu jener Zeit Zuwandererwellen nach Linden als größtes Industriedorf Preußens von fast überall her gab.

Mein Urgroßvater Robert Michalski heiratete 1929, arbeitete lt. Heiratsurkunde als Färber, zog damals von der Viktoriastraße zu seiner Frau in die Ricklingerstraße, wo ein Jahr später meine Großmutter geboren wurde. Ein damaliger Arbeitgeber könnte die Mechanische Weberei zu Linden gewesen sein, einer der größten Arbeitgeber dort und Produzent des berühmten Lindener Samtes, das seinen Namen einem dort entwickelten Färbeverfahren verdankt. Ob es zu den damaligen Firmen in Linden noch Akten zu den Arbeitern gibt? Wenn es so etwas damals überhaupt gab... Laut Aussage meiner Mutter starb Robert bereits etwa 1932 an Lungenentzündung. Allerdings soll er zu diesem Zeitpunkt Gerichtsreferendar in Göttingen gewesen sein. Dass es in den Raum Göttingen ging, wundert mich nicht zu sehr, da seine Frau aus Westerhof/Osterode kam und ich auch die Herkunft seiner Mutter, eine geborene BLÜMER, in der Harzregion vermute. Das ist also nicht so sehr abwegig.
Was mich aber sehr wundert:
Wie wurde man zu jener Zeit vom Färber zum Gerichtsreferendar? Was waren die Aufgaben eines solchen? Und kann es irgendwo Verzeichnisse in Archiven geben, wo ich etwas darüber herausfinden kann?

Momentan habe ich leider nicht so viel Zeit, um in den Bibliotheken zu stöbern, aber zumindest vorbereiten will ich mich auf meine Recherche.
Für Tipps und Ratschläge bin ich sehr dankbar.

Grüße aus Hannover
Juliane

Re: [HN] Burgdorf

Date: 2006/01/20 17:44:51
From: Björn Sassenberg <post(a)bjoern-sassenberg.de>

Dear Max,

bingo! I think, you've found him.

More information about Baddeckenstedt you find here: www.baddeckenstedt.de

There is information about place and history. You also find some information about the place Burgdorf, which is part of Baddeckenstedt! You should contact one of the mentioned persons listed below in the articles about Burgdorf and Baddeckenstedt to learn more.

Good luck with your further research and kindly regards from Langenhagen, Germany,

Björn

----- Original Message ----- From: <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>
To: "Burgdorf Search" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:11 PM
Subject: [HN] Burgdorf


Hello to All
I just returned from a visit to my local LDS Library and the County Library. I may have a breakthrough in my search for Julian Wilhelm Burgdorf. The LDS library had in stock a roll of film for Hannover emigration for the years of 1834 - 1913. I found J. W. Burgdorf who emigrated from Hamburg to New Orleans in 1859 with the same information that I have already compiled with one exception - it listed the place of origin. Julius has noted on New Orleans records that he was from Hildeshein in Hanover. The record I just found states that his Place of Origin is Baddekenstadt-Hannover. The volunteer there could not help me locate the town on maps he had. I went to the public library and there on a relativley new map of Germany I found it. It appears to be a small village about 10-15 Kilometers SE of Hildesheim. His occupation is listed on the record as comms, the last letter could be an n, a, e - the type image is blurred. In my data he is listed as a clerk. I have done nothing yet to pursue my findings. I am open to suggestions. Church records will definitely be a direction as will be civil records. I also requested film that gives emigration records for Hannover for the same years, 1834 - 1913. This may wind up as duplication but the films have different order numbers.
I also hope to look for current telephone numbers.
Max
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Re: [HN] Speckman

Date: 2006/01/20 19:35:16
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

Hi Barbara,
 
I cannot I thank you enough for your excellant help. I see why you gave me the results without getting into the process - it is very detailed.
 
I will do as you have suggested and order the records and then practice up on my German so that I can make heads or tails of the records when they arrive.
 
Thanks so much again,
 
Barney
 
-----Original Message-----
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:23:17 -0700
Subject: Re: [HN] Speckman


 Hello Barney,

        Yea!  maybe we've found the "permission to emigrate" for your
Friedrich Speckmann.

       This is the way the search looks in the Osnabrück archives:

   Speckmann, Friedrich Ferdinand    22259

       That number 22259 leads to this code:

Bestell-Nr.: Staatsarchiv Osnabrück,  Rep 335 Nr. 792

     With that code, you can order the records from Osnabrück by using the
email for the Niedersaschen which is:
    Hannover(a)nla.niedersachsen.de   They will get the record and mail them
to you with a fee of maybe $25.  The price varies.
      
     I found that code number to point to Dom (Haste, Schinkel).  I
explained that in my previous letter.

      You don't really have to go through the whole process,  because I have
done  the search for you.  So that you can understand the process,  read
what follows. 
     Below is a version I put together to navigate through the emigration
archives.  It has changed now so that ordering is done through the one email
address above.  You can write in English and they will fill the order.  I
have not been so lucky to find my relatives, but others say it is a
reasonable process.  Following my "directions" below is a translation done
by Fred Rump which will explain what you might find in the records and also
some other interesting stuff.

Good luck!
Barbara

> Searching the Osnabrück, Hannover, Wolfenbüttel emigration records is done
> by going to the website:
> 
> http://app.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/findbuch/
> 
> It is a little confusing to use, especially if you don't  know German.  On
> the first page:
> Choose one of the three locations on the bar & click Abschicken
> Go to Index  in the middle  of the  page and click
> Fill in the surname you are looking for in the box "Suchbegriff"
> Choose Personen where it says nach Ort
> Click on Suchen starten and you will get a list of persons who emigrated
> from Germany with that name.  Or you may get nothing! Try the same search on
> all 3 locations.
> Note the number on the right column. That number will direct you to the
> town later.  Click on a name that matches a person you are looking for and
> you will get a code that will be what you use to order the record.
> Finding what area the person comes from is not easy.  On the Hannover
> site, it often names a town right in the code.  For Osnabrück it is harder,
> although it sometimes names the town or part of it. Don't  presume anything
> about the town . You need to go back to the page where you first clicked on
> Index and this time click on Gliederung.
> There you will see a list of towns and if you click on the numbers on
> the left, you will get a listing of the numbers of people who emigrated from
> that area.  The numbers start with 1 and go up from there.  So if the number
> is 5 digits it will be closer to the bottom of the list. But you have to go
> to the  one that has the number in it from the right column of the page with
> the list of names. When  you find the right one, the code will match the
> code you saw earlier tied to the name you were looking  for. I know this is
> confusing.  I have explained  the process many times on this site and it
> never  is very clear!
> Then, you can order the records from the archives  The email
> addresses are:
    Hannover(a)nla.niedersachsen.de
> 
> You have to realize that these emigration records cover only certain
> years--and not everybody is listed there.  None of my relatives are.  You're
> lucky if you find them!!
> If you still have trouble, let me  know personally and I will try to
> help.  Several people on the list have explained that the ordering process
> is fairly easy.  They will send you the records by regular mail and then you
> send the money ( I think  even a check will  do.)  I haven't done that part.
> It is relatively inexpensive, so I hear.  In the duplication of some names,
> I would not order records until you know whether it is your ancestor. You
> can always write to the addresses given above and maybe they can help you.
> As to what kind of information can be obtained by ordering records, I am
> including a translation of the forward from the Osnabrück page that was done
> by Fred Rump. See below.
 
> Vorword
> 
> Among the most significant social-historical phenonema of the 19th
> century was the emigration wave from German lands toward North
> America. The following directory attempts to encompass this
> emigration for the period of 1825 to 1870 for the then extant
> Landdrosteibezirk (regional administration) of Osnabrück which is
> composed out of the present Counties of Osnabrück, Emsland and
> Grafschaft Bentheim as well as the city of Osnabrück. The attempt to
> cull data out of the archive is obviously on a best effort basis and
> there is no way of knowing how many people emigrated without first
> obtaining permission. Estimates vary but illegal emigration could be
> as numerous as the legal ones.
> 
> Under emigration this document refers not only to the 'classical' use
> of the word where emigration meant to go overseas, but also any
> migration from the Kingdom of Hannover (since 1866, the Prussian
> province of Hannover) to another European state or German state. The
> given goal of destination  may not have corresponded with the actual
> goal quoted in the documents.
> 
> The source documents without exception were the files maintained by
> the Lower Saxon State Archives in Osnabrück.  Specifically the mid-
> level (Landdrostei) and lower level regional (Ämter, Vogteien)
> administrative districts as well as those documents held by the
> archive from the various city archives (for example, Osnabrück,
> Bramsche, Lingen, Neuenhaus & Quakenbrück).
> 
> The schema (classification) is ordered based upon the administrative
> districts used in the second half of the 19th century by the
> Landdrostei region of Osnabrück and encompasses next to the four
> independent cities of Lingen, Melle, Osnabrück and Quakenbrück the
> various Ämter (districts) which were in turn devided up into
> Kirchspiele (parishes).  Within the parishes the emigrants are listed
> alphabetically. The source references about any individual emigrant
> are further ordered along the following schema: (1) Name and place of
> residence, (2) date of birth or age and a birthplace if other then
> the place of residence, (3) occupation, (4) name of the parents, (5)
> family members also emigrating with reference as to their
> relationship such as wife, brother, daughter, son etc., (6) religious
> affiliation, (7) goal of emigration, (8) emigrations timing,
> mentioned is the exact date but sometimes only the year an emigration
> pass, a consent agreement was issued or the year the home residence
> was vacated, (9) value of possessions, (10) comments, here follows an
> abbreviated explanation giving the reasons of emigration for example
> via references to family status or economical situations.
> 
> Archivist Herbert Budde did the analysis of the documents. He had
> completed this task in 1982. Data entry was accomplished using
> various available labor resources. The primary destination goal of
> the emigrants leaving the area of Osnabrück was the USA with the most
> often given city destinations being: Baltimore, Cincinnati, New York
> and St. Louis. The city of Milwaukee, as well as the state of
> Wisconsin, appear noticeably seldom in the sources even though this
> area was a main destination of German emigration to America. People
> from Osnabrück also emigrated to Argentina, Australia and Brazil. One
> even finds individuals going to Chile, Cuba and the Dutch East/West
> Indies.  The Netherlands without question dominates the number of
> emigrants within the European state system. One needs to remember
> though that the often mentioned goal of Amsterdam was not necessarily
> a final destination point for the folks going there. It may well have
> been nothing but an interim stop over for people going somewhere
> overseas. The difficulties and dangers of an overseas emigration in
> the 19th century can not be overemphasized - in the beginning it was
> on sailboats and later on steamers. The most common explanation of
> the 'why' of emigration that is revealed by the documents is the hope
> for a 'better life'. By itself this indicates that the predominant
> emigration push comes from the lowest and underprivileged social
> strata of society who would dare all to achieve their goal especially
> for their children. In the emigrant records of the people from
> Osnabrück the most common occupations listed are maid, male and
> female farm servants or day laborers. We can therefore assume that
> the majority of the emigrants were landless and dependent workers in
> a largely agrarian society. On the other hand we also find many
> craftsmen and laborers. To complete the scenario there were
> sculptors, men of the cloth, gymnasts and literary types who also made their
> way overseas. 
> 
> 



on 1/19/06 8:38 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:



> Hi Barbara,
> 
> Wow, what great info. Yes, he was FF Speckman and he is the one from the 1880
> Census in SF. Sometimes it was Francis and a middle name and sometimes listed
> as F. I would not be surpised if he is the same guy. He is also in the 1870,
> 1900 and 1910 Censuses and then vanishes which leads me to believe he died
> before the 1920 Census. One wife only - Anna had all 19 children. I have been
> told recently that he probably had two NNs at the end but dropped one as did
> most Speckmans who came to the US.
> 
> You mention in your first paragraph that I can find Friedrich Ferdinand
> Speckmann on the emigration list. One from the Osnabruck area. Where do I get
> that list? Was that for 1857? See below.
> 
> I am in error in my original email. He was born in 1844 and came over to US in
> 1860 according to a US Census document so that would make him 16 when he came
> to the US. His future wife Anna came to US in 1857. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> Barbara, thanks for the great info and tips. I will follow them up.
> 
> Barney Speckman
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>
> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:18:48 -0700
> Subject: Re: [HN] (no subject)
> 
> 
> Hi Barney,
> 
> If your great grandfather's name was Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann,
> then he may be the one on an emigration list from the Osnabrück area.  There
> is a person listed from Dom (Haste,Schinkel).  I'm not positive, but I think
> those may be in or near the city of Osnabrück (from  my map it looks that
> way).  He could have changed the spelling of the first name, and if the
> middle name fits and if he dropped the second n in the name, this could be
> your man.  If so, you can order records on him.  Speckman(n) seems to be a
> fairly common German name.
> 
> There are 4 other Speckmanns listed in the emigration archives:
> 
> Speckmann, August Ferdinand    18388
> Speckmann, Cathrine Ilse    18149
> Speckmann, Dietrich Wilhelm    18388
> Speckmann, Marie Sophie 18388
> 
> These are from the town of Uchte.
> 
> On the other hand, there is a Friedr. Speckmann age 28 with a wife
> Auguste age 20 on a ship from Hamburg in 1857:
> 
> http://immigrantships.net/v4/1800v4/main18570525.html
> 
> Maybe first wife died before he met Anna Stoppler?  If he had 19 kids
> there would probably be two wives.  Lots of women died in childbirth.
> 
> According to your records he would have been 13 when he came to the USA?
> 
> You should run some searches on these sites:
> 
> http://geneanet.org/
> http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp
> www.familysearch.org  (the LDS site that may have some clues for you.)
> 
> Maybe you've already looked at those sites.
> 
> I see that he is F.F. Speakman in the 1880 census in San Francisco.
> Maybe he is the guy in the emigration archives--Friedrich Ferdinand in the
> first paragraph above.
> 
> Good luck,
> Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on 1/18/06 10:06 AM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I am looking for information related to my great grandfather Frederick
>> Speckman.
>> 
>> He was born around 1844 in the Kingdom of Hanover and came to the US in about
>> 1857 and ended up in San Francicsco where he married Anna Stoppler and had 19
>> children. He died after 1910.
>> 
>> I am trying to find out anything I can about him or his family in Germany.
>> Like what town he was from or who is parents were and if his parents also
>> came
>> to the US. 
>> 
>> Thanks for any help you can give me
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Barney Speckman
>> San Francisco, Califronia USA
>> ______________________________________________
>> 
>> Hannover-L mailing list
>> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
>> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
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> 
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[HN] Familie Rautenberg

Date: 2006/01/20 22:55:25
From: Sebastian Rautenberg <basti(a)sera-online.net>

Hallo @ all,
bin mal wieder da und habe auch schon viele reaktionen  auf meine anfragen bekommen mal schauen obs diesmal auch wieder welche gibt ..
Speziell suche ich einen Heinrich Rautenberg bruder von Friedrich Rautenberg(*1869) geboren in Rauben und deren Geschwister. Vater ist Carl Rautenberg*7.11.1834 in Rauben  verstorben am 11.10.1890 in Rauben.
Heinrich Rautenberg ist angeblich nach Russland ausgewandert.

desweiteren suche ich zu folgenden Namen noch daten:
Rautenberg
-erich emil Rautenberg
-martha  Rautenberg
-otto  Rautenberg
-ida  Rautenberg 
-emmi  Rautenberg 
-anna  Rautenberg
-elisabeth Rautenberg
-heinrich Rautenberg

Familie Oschlies aus Peterkehmen & Endriekat aus??  Ronnenberg aus Heimsen & Neuenknick

Bin mal gespannt 
Grüße
Sebastian

[HN] Couple of questions

Date: 2006/01/20 23:18:44
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

Anyone
>The word Commia appears as the occupation on  an emigration index card for my grandfather.  My German to English dictionary does not list it. Can anyone help. The last letter ' a'  can be an 'n' or  something else. The typed letter is closed as to appear as a large dot. On other records he was said to be a clerk
>Werner Honkomp was kind enough to send me several Burgdorf phone numbers in Baddickenstedt. Three of the names I do not understand. The individual's name is listed followed by the phone number. The second line states 382..Baddeckenstedt*. I cannot determine if a street address is listed. Does the * mean that there is no address listed?
Thanks,  Max

[HN] re: Arend Heinrich Wilhelm Fischer

Date: 2006/01/20 23:46:07
From: ADELE HYNES <inurse(a)prodigy.net>

Hi there, I was wondering if anyone out there is looking to help me with my problem I have only limited information on Arend Heinrich Wilhelm Fischer.  He was probably born about 1800. He was a tax collector in (Freidland) Hannover. Wife unknown. One known son called Johann Georg Wilhelm born about 1825. He removed to Berlin where he married a Emma Charlotte Dettmers in 1854.Please help me. I don't read or speak German so the records look like spaghetti to me I simply can't read them.Thank you for any help. If I have to I will hire a researcher but I need some names. Adele Fischer Hynes 

Re: [HN] Couple of questions

Date: 2006/01/21 00:42:32
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>


Hi Max:

Do you have a photocopy of the card? The word may be something other than it appears. I looked and looked and the best I could come up with were comma and comie, neither of which is likely.

The number 382-- is probably 38271, the mailing zip for Baddeckenstedt.

I am sure others can do better.

Gale

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:18:34 -0800
 <pharmaxx(a)charter.net> wrote:
Anyone
The word Commia appears as the occupation on an emigration index card for my grandfather. My German to English dictionary does not list it. Can anyone help. The last letter ' a' can be an 'n' or something else. The typed letter is closed as to appear as a large dot. On other records he was said to be a clerk Werner Honkomp was kind enough to send me several Burgdorf phone numbers in Baddickenstedt. Three of the names I do not understand. The individual's name is listed followed by the phone number. The second line states 382..Baddeckenstedt*. I cannot determine if a street address is listed. Does the * mean that there is no address listed?
Thanks,  Max
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[HN] Eggers Family

Date: 2006/01/21 00:46:47
From: grandma2 <grandma2(a)usa.net>

Hallo, Können Sie mir, wenn Ihr Dettmar oder Johann Eggers ein James
Johannes getragenes Eggers haben, November 2, 1832 erklären, in ihrer
Familie? Wenn so, treten Sie mit mir bitte in Verbindung. Haben Sie einen
wundervollen Tag. Kathy
 
Hello,
  Can you tell me if your Dettmar or Johann Eggers have a James Johannes
Eggers born, 2 November, 1832, in their Family? If so, please contact me.
Have a wonderful day.
Kathy

[HN] Charles Loges

Date: 2006/01/21 01:32:31
From: Betty Depee <bldepee(a)earthlink.net>

Hi - I am new to the list.  I have been researching my gg grandfather for years and seem to be stuck.  He is Charles Loges, b. 1835, birthplace as Prussia or Hannover, Preussen.  His father is Anthony Henry Loges, mother Wilhelimine Bedecker.

He came to the USA, year unknown.  He left a family behind and family rumor was that he told them he would send for them, but never did.  He remarried and raised another family in New Jersey.

His son from Germany came to the USA after his father  had remarried .  His sons name is Albert Carl Loges, b. City of Bremen, Nov. 22, 1855.  Emigrated to the USA April 19, 1871 arriving in New York, May 8, 1871.

I am looking for the wife and remaining children of Charles Loges that were left behind in Germany. 

Any suggestions or help would be greaty appreciated.

Thank you,
Betty Depee


Betty Depee
bldepee(a)earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

Re: [HN] Couple of questions BURGDORF,BURCHTORFF,ELBE,GUSTEDT

Date: 2006/01/21 01:35:08
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

<pharmaxx(a)charter.net> schrieb:
> Anyone
> >The word Commia appears as the occupation on  an emigration index card for my grandfather.  My German to English dictionary does not list it. Can anyone help. The last letter ' a'  can be an 'n' or  something else. The typed letter is closed as to appear as a large dot. On other records he was said to be a clerk

Hello Max,

the writing should be correct "COMMIS", which means as much as "Handlungsgehilfe" or in English clerk. The problem with your dictionary may be caused by the beginning "C", which is an elderly form of writing and lateron was often changed into "K". that means you might be lucky to find explanations in more modern dictionaries under "KOMMIS". Be careful not to look under "KOMMISS", which is something totally different and is dimiuitive by members of an for all sorts of military organizations.

> >Werner Honkomp was kind enough to send me several Burgdorf phone numbers in Baddickenstedt. Three of the names I do not understand. The individual's name is listed followed by the phone number. The second line states 382..Baddeckenstedt*. I cannot determine if a street address is listed. Does the * mean that there is no address listed?
> Thanks,  Max

Checked an elder telephone directory, which shows the persons without a street name being living in "Elbe". I would presume after all following the directory customs, that there is a  special part of Baddickenstedt called "Elbe". Perhaps they haven`t yet got a street name or just did not want to have it written in the directory, probably the last reason will be right. If you want to send a letter over there, it will reach the person nevertheless with great probability. The second line gives the postcode.nrs. 38274 and 38271. All the Burgdorf named seem to live in that part of Baddeckenstedt called Elbe or nearby Groß-Elbe. The mystery with the postcodenr.-endings ...74 and ...71 is, that 74 indicates the former part of its own Elbe or Groß-Elbe and 71 the living places situated already more nearby the former territory of Baddeckenstedt. Its the trouble with the always changing administrational borders.

I found the following entry of a marriage of an Burchtorff of Groß-Elbe:

" ... oo Gustedt 26.11.1732 Hans BURCHTORFF, von Groß-Elbe und  LOERS, Maria (Cath..),~ 9.3.1702 Gustedt...)Source: KRENTEL, Friedrich Carl: Höfe- und Ortssippenbuch Gustedt (1642 -1875) Hannover 1989, S.140

The former writings of Burgdorf varies, so Burchtorff should be inside the same family line. Gustedt by the way is also a part of Baddeckenstedt, at least gathered in the same telephone directory. 

Hope that makes things a bit more clear,
Good luck in your further research

Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel

Re: [HN] re: Arend Heinrich Wilhelm Fischer

Date: 2006/01/21 01:53:46
From: 320097756779-0001 <320097756779-0001(a)t-online.de>

"ADELE HYNES" <inurse(a)prodigy.net> schrieb:
> Hi there, I was wondering if anyone out there is looking to help me with my problem I have only limited information on Arend Heinrich Wilhelm Fischer.  He was probably born about 1800. He was a tax collector in (Freidland) Hannover. Wife unknown. One known son called Johann Georg Wilhelm born about 1825. He removed to Berlin where he married a Emma Charlotte Dettmers in 1854.Please help me. I don't read or speak German so the records look like spaghetti to me I simply can't read them.Thank you for any help. If I have to I will hire a researcher but I need some names. Adele Fischer Hynes 

Hello Adele Hynes,

your problem starts with the place name "Freidland".

There is a Fr i e dland nearby Göttingen with 11 FISCHER in 1998. The postal address of the Lutheran Church is

Evangelische Pfarrämter
Friedland

37133 Friedland

a telephone nr. is 05504-437

The Catholic Church:

katholisches Pfarramt
Friedland

37133 Friedland

tel. 05504-493

I think if wanted the local communities will know who might do your researches or are able to do it right away themselves.

Good Luck

hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel 


[HN] Demel, Wilhelm Carl Louis

Date: 2006/01/21 02:24:45
From: Elizabeth <aliens(a)bigpond.net.au>

Hello Neil,

Neil wrote:
<I posted the message with my limited information on the chance that there may be a database for Hanover similar to the New South Wales Birth Deaths and Marriages Registry <Historical Index Search 1788 - 1975 with which the information I supplied would have found him.

Unfortunately there are no on-line consolidated indexes to BDMs for Hannover (the state or city), like those available in NSW . In Australia some states have indexes that include the records created by the clergy along with civil registrations (dates vary in each state) . Australia and (England civil registration began in late 1837) are indeed very fortunate to have consolidated indexes, covering the years since civil registration.

The following information explains the background to records created by the clergy and generally how BDMs in Germany can be accessed for the dates you are researching.

Obtaining BDMs from Germany:

There are no consolidated indexes held for BDMs in Germany. Prior to unification in 1871, Germany was made up of hundreds of smaller states, principalities, grand duchies and kingdoms, all ruled independently. Therefore it is essential to know the name of the town/village your ancestor came from, if only the name of a city or larger town is known it is necessary to establish the name of the parish or district where the event you are looking for took place.

This LDS article aims to help researchers understand how these records were created and where they may be located. Many parish registers have been filmed, locate these quickly by using the LDS Family Library Catalog.

CHURCH RECORDS

Church records [Kirchenbücher] are excellent sources for accurate information on names, dates and places of birth/baptism, marriage, and death/burial. They are the most significant source of genealogical information for Germany before 1876. Most people who lived in Germany were recorded in a church record.

Records of births, marriages, and deaths are commonly called "vital records" because critical events in a person's life are recorded in them.

Church records that contain vital records were made by pastors and priests. They are often called parish registers or church books. They include records of births, baptisms, marriages, deaths, and burials. In addition, church records may include account books (which record fees for tolling bells, fees for masses for the dead, and so forth), lists of
confirmations, lists of members, and family registers.

Church records are crucial for pre-1876 German research. Since civil authorities in several areas of Germany did not begin registering vital statistics until 1876,church records are often the only sources of family information before this date. Church introduction of civil registration, but the Family History Library has not microfilmed many post-1876 church records. See "Civil Registration" in this outline for more information about post-1876 sources.

General Historical Background:
The practice of keeping parish registers evolved slowly. The first surviving Protestant records are from 1524 at St. Sebald in Nürnberg. Lutheran churches in general began requiring baptism, marriage, and burial records in 1540; Catholics began in 1563. By 1650 most Reformed parishes began keeping records.

Many church records were destroyed in the Thirty Years' War (1618-1648). In addition, records for some parishes in the Pfalz and Rheinland were interrupted for several years when the French controlled those areas of Germany from 1792 to 1815 and introduced civil registration.

Generally, the earliest church records are in western Germany. The farther east you go, the later the church records begin. German church records are usually written in Latin or German. Records in German were usually written in Gothic script until as late as the 1930s.

Note the following points about German church records:

Large cities have many churches, each serving part of the city. Rural churches often serve several villages and hamlets. Parish boundaries often changed, which affected where church records were kept.

Military churches in garrison towns and cities often kept their own records separate from other parishes.

In some parts of Germany, the death registers began later than the baptism and marriage registers, especially in Catholic records.

The registers of baptisms, marriages, and deaths from different geographic areas vary considerably in the amount of information they provide. Each jurisdiction had its own record-keeping rules, and each recorder had his own style.

In some areas, the records of people of other faiths were kept by the predominant church. The principal churches in Germany were the Catholic and Evangelical-Lutheran churches. For example, Jewish births were occasionally recorded at Catholic parishes, especially in areas where the church was used as the civil registration office. Parishes occasionally indexed their records. Indexes are usually filmed at the beginning or end of the record. Moreover, archives sometimes compile indexes of church records .

LDS Family History Catalog:
How to use the LDS website once you know the "place of origin" in Germany, go to www.familysearch.org

Scroll down on the right hand side of the home page on your screen and click on the words. "Search Genealogy Records and Library Search on the Family History Catalog" a menu will open up click on place search, another page will open and in the top box provided, type in the place name nothing else, in the next box type in Germany. Another page will open giving you options to look at all the types of records that have been filmed for that place. You can check hundreds of records that are available on micro-film ranging from church records, census, court, immigration, military to administration records for various agencies. It will take you some days to study these headings, just click on any blue or underlined text by placing the curser over the words. Don't forget to click on view film details for explanations. Print out the results of your search and order the films from your nearest Mormon library.

For more information, see an overview of the variety of records that have been filmed by the LDS in their The German Research Outline. No. 34061 cost $4-70 post free Available from the LDS distribution centre, phone 1300 404 045 (within Australia)

Neil wrote:
<Thanks very much Elizabeth. I had tried the NZ Nat Archives site before but when searching on Demel I just got a company from the 1970s. I thought it just went to series level <not item level. How did you get that reference?

There is an index to Naturalizations in New Zealand available in most state libraries and many family history societies, I suggested that you check this index, however I looked it up for you. Wilhelm Carl Louis Demel occupation Merchant, was naturalized in Dunedin New Zealand 1 September 1885, no other references are given on the micro-fiche index. If you can't use the online request form at the addy I gave you, just e-mail the New Zealand Archives reference(a)archives.govt.nz giving the above details and a copy of his naturalization to be sent to you, fees apply.

Good luck with your research,
Elizabeth
NSW Australia




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Re: [HN] Charles Loges

Date: 2006/01/21 02:36:15
From: gale <gale(a)bosche.info>

Hi Betty:

Lets look at what you have:
Charles Loges b. 1835 place may be Hannover, (City or
KOH)?  Was Charles his real name?

Anthony Henry (Heinreich) Loges wife Bedecker.
Anthony his real name?

Not much there, but Albert Carl Loges b. Nov. 22, 1855
immigrated May 8, 1871.

Here is what Castle Garden has to say about Albert:

First name Last name Occupation Age Sex Arrived Origin
Ship
Albert Loges Unknown 15 M 6 May 1871 Hanover Bremen

http://www.castlegarden.org/index.html

Now my logic:  Charles Loges was born possibly Hannover.
Castle Garden states Albert was from Hanover. Your info
is that Albert was born in Bremen.  Castle Garden states
he came over on the ship Bremen.  Since Albert was born in
1855, it appears that Charles did not leave Prussia before
that.  I can accept the two day difference on Albert's
arrival in the U.S.

I think Hanover is more than likely the home of your ancestors, now are we talking about the City of Hanover or the Kingdom of Hanover? This is a big difference.

Now what?

Gale

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 16:33:07 -0800
 "Betty Depee" <bldepee(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
Hi - I am new to the list. I have been researching my gg grandfather for years and seem to be stuck. He is Charles Loges, b. 1835, birthplace as Prussia or Hannover, Preussen. His father is Anthony Henry Loges, mother Wilhelimine Bedecker.

He came to the USA, year unknown. He left a family behind and family rumor was that he told them he would send for them, but never did. He remarried and raised another family in New Jersey.

His son from Germany came to the USA after his father had remarried . His sons name is Albert Carl Loges, b. City of Bremen, Nov. 22, 1855. Emigrated to the USA April 19, 1871 arriving in New York, May 8, 1871.

I am looking for the wife and remaining children of Charles Loges that were left behind in Germany.
Any suggestions or help would be greaty appreciated.

Thank you,
Betty Depee


Betty Depee
bldepee(a)earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
______________________________________________

Hannover-L mailing list
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l


[HN] Re my questions

Date: 2006/01/21 02:57:00
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

Gayle and Hans Peter
Thanks for the replies. I believe you guys hit it on the head. Julius Burgdorf's occupation on the passenger list was noted as CLERK. So Komis is right on. 
As for the possible addresses for the listed numbers, again you are more than likely correct. The absence of a street address may be due to several reasons. The numbers 382.. certainly must be the zip code (US system) with the last 2 digits omitted. 
I intend to write to all the addresses and add the numbers that Hans provided. The postal service may deliver it. Hey, I just thought that maybe there is no street address and the mail is picked up by name in the local post office. It's worth a try. If I could speak German I would use the telephone.
Thanks everybody,
Max

Re: [HN] Charles Loges

Date: 2006/01/21 03:31:55
From: pharmaxx <pharmaxx(a)charter.net>

---- gale(a)bosche.info wrote: 
> Hi Betty:
> 
> Lets look at what you have:
> Charles Loges b. 1835 place may be Hannover, (City or
> KOH)?  Was Charles his real name?
> 
> Anthony Henry (Heinreich) Loges wife Bedecker.
> Anthony his real name?
> 
> Not much there, but Albert Carl Loges b. Nov. 22, 1855
> immigrated May 8, 1871.
> 
> Here is what Castle Garden has to say about Albert:
> 
> First name Last name Occupation Age Sex Arrived Origin
> Ship
> Albert Loges Unknown 15 M 6 May 1871 Hanover Bremen
> 
> http://www.castlegarden.org/index.html
> 
> Now my logic:  Charles Loges was born possibly Hannover.
> Castle Garden states Albert was from Hanover. Your info
> is that Albert was born in Bremen.  Castle Garden states
> he came over on the ship Bremen.  Since Albert was born in
> 1855, it appears that Charles did not leave Prussia before
> that.  I can accept the two day difference on Albert's
> arrival in the U.S.
> 
> I think Hanover is more than likely the home of your 
> ancestors, now are we talking about the City of Hanover or 
> the Kingdom of Hanover?  This is a big difference.
> 
> Now what?
> 
> Gale
> 
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 16:33:07 -0800
>   "Betty Depee" <bldepee(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Hi - I am new to the list.  I have been researching my 
> >gg grandfather for years and seem to be stuck.  He is 
> >Charles Loges, b. 1835, birthplace as Prussia or Hannover, 
> >Preussen.  His father is Anthony Henry Loges, mother 
> >Wilhelimine Bedecker.
> > 
> > He came to the USA, year unknown.  He left a family 
> >behind and family rumor was that he told them he would 
> >send for them, but never did.  He remarried and raised 
> >another family in New Jersey.
> > 
> > His son from Germany came to the USA after his father 
> > had remarried .  His sons name is Albert Carl Loges, b. 
> >City of Bremen, Nov. 22, 1855.  Emigrated to the USA 
> >April 19, 1871 arriving in New York, May 8, 1871.
> > 
> > I am looking for the wife and remaining children of 
> >Charles Loges that were left behind in Germany. 
> > 
> > Any suggestions or help would be greaty appreciated.
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > Betty Depee
> > 
> > 
> > Betty Depee
> > bldepee(a)earthlink.net
> > EarthLink Revolves Around You.
> > ______________________________________________
> > 
> > Hannover-L mailing list
> > Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l
> 
> ______________________________________________
> 
> Hannover-L mailing list
> Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l

Gayle, might this be of any help? I found my Burgdorf information on LDS film no. 0884669. I am unsure of the title but I think it was an index of emigrees from Hanover in the years 1834-1913.
Max

[HN] UELZEN book

Date: 2006/01/21 04:20:20
From: Mona <HeritageHunt(a)Sandyview.info>

Some time ago in this Hannover discussioin group, we discussed a book co-authored by Dieter Boe and Heinrich Porth, containing records from the churchbooks in the Uelzen area.

The following is a message I received from a person who ordered, and recently received, the book:
--- quote ---
"The book has arrived and it is really worth waiting for. It is about an inch and a quarter thick. The binding is not so great but I put transparent duck tape on it and now I do not have to worry about the spine breaking. There are 484 pages of information. The title is "Die Familien und Einwohner des Kirchspiels of Ebstorf" by Heinrich Porth and Dieter Boe. In the beginning there are 67 pages of German information, pictures, graphs and maps. The families start on page 68 through page 440. Then the index, more graphs and such.

"The family section shows all children of the family, birth and deaths if known, marriages and all pertinent info. I can't believe that these two men put all of this together. Just the key entry must have taken years. It really is a history of all the families from 1627 to 1875.

"I do research for many people who came from the whole area of Uelzen so this will be a great help to me. I don't know if a person is only looking for one family how good it would be for them. The cost was $60.00 so you would have to decide for yourself if it would be worth it to you."
--- end quote ---

Quote from an earlier message:
--- quote ---
The address to order the book is as follows:

Museumsverein Uelzen
% Mr. Uwe Harnack
Kroge 29
29525 Uelzen, Germany

The museumsverein had all exclusive rights at the book. You must send a cheque about 60,-dollars and he will send the book via ship as soon as possible. (This was written by Dieter Boe)

--- end quote ---

That is all the information that I have about the book. I hope this is helpful to any one who is interested.

My maternal grandmother's ancestors lived in and around Ebstorf. I want to get a copy of the book for myself, and will probably order one in the next month or so.

Mona

--
Mona Houser
HeritageHunt(a)sandyview.info
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/

Re: [HN] Maps and Town/City Lists

Date: 2006/01/21 06:15:59
From: bmspeckman <bmspeckman(a)aol.com>

All,
 
On a related but simpler question - For someone who is not to familiar with the Kingdom of Hanover - How does one go about getting a list of town/cities and a map for the 1850-1865 time frame so as place names come up in research there is a way to locate them and/or otherwise check to see where they are located.
 
Any good leads on maps and lists of towns in KOH?
 
Thanks,
 
Barney Speckman 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Mona <HeritageHunt(a)Sandyview.info>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 21:29:05 -0600
Subject: [HN] UELZEN book


Some time ago in this Hannover discussioin group, we discussed a book co-authored by Dieter Boe and Heinrich Porth, containing records from the churchbooks in the Uelzen area. 
 
The following is a message I received from a person who ordered, and recently received, the book: 
--- quote --- 
"The book has arrived and it is really worth waiting for. It is about an inch and a quarter thick. The binding is not so great but I put transparent duck tape on it and now I do not have to worry about the spine breaking. There are 484 pages of information. The title is 
"Die Familien und Einwohner des Kirchspiels of Ebstorf" by Heinrich Porth and Dieter Boe. In the beginning there are 67 pages of German information, pictures, graphs and maps. The families start on page 68 through page 440. Then the index, more graphs and such. 
 
"The family section shows all children of the family, birth and deaths if known, marriages and all pertinent info. I can't believe that these two men put all of this together. Just the key entry must have taken years. It really is a history of all the families from 1627 to 1875. 
 
"I do research for many people who came from the whole area of Uelzen so this will be a great help to me. I don't know if a person is only looking for one family how good it would be for them. The cost was $60.00 so you would have to decide for yourself if it would be worth it to you." 
--- end quote --- 
 
Quote from an earlier message: 
--- quote --- 
The address to order the book is as follows: 
 
Museumsverein Uelzen 
% Mr. Uwe Harnack 
Kroge 29 
29525 Uelzen, Germany 
 
The museumsverein had all exclusive rights at the book. You must send a cheque about 60,-dollars and he will send the book via ship as soon as possible. (This was written by Dieter Boe) 
 
--- end quote --- 
 
That is all the information that I have about the book. I hope this is helpful to any one who is interested. 
 
My maternal grandmother's ancestors lived in and around Ebstorf. I want to get a copy of the book for myself, and will probably order one in the next month or so. 
 
Mona 
 
-- Mona Houser 
HeritageHunt(a)sandyview.info 
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monajo/ 
______________________________________________ 
 
Hannover-L mailing list 
Hannover-L(a)genealogy.net 
http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l 

Re: [HN] Maps and Town/City Lists

Date: 2006/01/21 07:03:07
From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara(a)comcast.net>

Hi Barney,

       I couldn't live without my Autoatlas Deutschland by Falk.  I use it
constantly.  I bought it some years ago and it is worth every penny. It has
every town where there are 100 people or more. (sometimes less than that).
It shows when there is a church (and other items). It is great.

        Mapquest.com is a great site to find most places.

       Sometimes when I am in doubt of whether a town is in Hannover, I use
the LDS Family History Catalog and click on Place with the name and if the
town is listed there, you will see whether it was in Hannover or other
region.  Granted, some towns are not listed.

       This website is handy:
      http://www.muc.de/~cfaerber/dmoz/de-gemeinden/

Barbara


        
            

        




on 1/20/06 10:15 PM, bmspeckman(a)aol.com at bmspeckman(a)aol.com wrote:

> All,
> 
> On a related but simpler question - For someone who is not to familiar with
> the Kingdom of Hanover - How does one go about getting a list of town/cities
> and a map for the 1850-1865 time frame so as place names come up in research
> there is a way to locate them and/or otherwise check to see where they are
> located.
> 
> Any good leads on maps and lists of towns in KOH?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Barney Speckman 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mona <HeritageHunt(a)Sandyview.info>
> To: Hannover-L <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 21:29:05 -0600
> Subject: [HN] UELZEN book
> 
> 
> Some time ago in this Hannover discussioin group, we discussed a book
> co-authored by Dieter Boe and Heinrich Porth, containing records from the
> churchbooks in the Uelzen area.
> 
> The following is a message I received from a person who ordered, and recently
> received, the book:
> --- quote --- 
> "The book has arrived and it is really worth waiting for. It is about an inch
> and a quarter thick. The binding is not so great but I put transparent duck
> tape on it and now I do not have to worry about the spine breaking. There are
> 484 pages of information. The title is
> "Die Familien und Einwohner des Kirchspiels of Ebstorf" by Heinrich Porth and
> Dieter Boe. In the beginning there are 67 pages of German information,
> pictures, graphs and maps. The families start on page 68 through page 440.
> Then the index, more graphs and such.
> 
> "The family section shows all children of the family, birth and deaths if
> known, marriages and all pertinent info. I can't believe that these two men
> put all of this together. Just the key entry must have taken years. It really
> is a history of all the families from 1627 to 1875.
> 
> "I do research for many people who came from the whole area of Uelzen so this
> will be a great help to me. I don't know if a person is only looking for one
> family how good it would be for them. The cost was $60.00 so you would have to
> decide for yourself if it would be worth it to you."
> --- end quote ---
> 
> Quote from an earlier message:
> --- quote --- 
> The address to order the book is as follows:
> 
> Museumsverein Uelzen
> % Mr. Uwe Harnack
> Kroge 29 
> 29525 Uelzen, Germany
> 
> The museumsverein had all exclusive rights at the book. You must send a cheque
> about 60,-dollars and he will send the book via ship as soon as possible.
> (This was written by Dieter Boe)
> 
> --- end quote ---
> 
> That is all the information that I have about the book. I hope this is helpful
> to any one who is interested.
> 
> My maternal grandmother's ancestors lived in and around Ebstorf. I want to get
> a copy of the book for myself, and will probably order one in the next month
> or so. 
> 
> Mona 
> 
> -- Mona Houser 
> HeritageHunt(a)sandyview.info
>