Date: 2000/08/01 08:07:57
From: B. Bauernschmidt <bauernschmidt(a)odn.de>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: E. J. HERTERICK <EJSMAPS(a)worldnet.att.net> An: <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> > Thanks for the help but this site is in German which is little help to > me. Is there an alternate in English? ej No, only some pages of the GFF-website are also available in English. The GFF is a german society and makes his service primary for german users. But I think, the lists of the church-records are not so difficult to understand. And - why not learning a little bit german? As a genealogical researcher with german roots this would be very usefull. Viele Grüße Bruno Bauernschmidt bauernschmidt(a)odn.de
Date: 2000/08/02 19:11:12
From: ruffbj <ruffbj(a)juno.com>
Hello friends - I just looked over the Gesellschaft für Familienforschung in Franken (GFF) web site and it seems very useful and well done. So it is certainly worth a visit - www.gf-franken.de A lot of the pages have an english language version. And there are many links to --.de sites which may be new to many of us in the US. (I think there is more web activity over there now.) Among the church records info I found my two villages - Reidern and Eichenbühl - now I just have to make it over to Würzburg! So, do have a look. Our friend Bruno Bauernschmidt deserves a 'Dankeschön' for that effort. Ausgezeichnet! Bill Ruff ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Date: 2000/08/03 15:23:53
From: BlackThumb50 <BlackThumb50(a)cs.com>
LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON Margaret Peetz born in Wistenselbitz (?) in Baiern on April 4, 1874. I know she came to USA but am searching for family information. Also family information on Bernhardt Emile Pomper born August 28, 1866 in Glaucha in Sachsen. He also emmigrated to USA along with his father or brother named Gustav. Any information on these people or where I can write etc. would be appreciated. Thank you...........................Carolyn Gray
Date: 2000/08/06 12:44:49
From: Jaeger Leo <Jaeger-Leo(a)t-online.de>
Hallo Carolyn Gray, In Glauchau Sachsen gibt es den Namen Pomber noch zweimal. Sie sollten sich an das dortige Pfarramt wenden, denn dort sind die alten Unterlagen oder direkt an die Stadt oder Gemeinde Glauchau. Bitte entschuldigen sie, dass ich in deutsch schreibe aber mein Englich ist nicht so gut! Mit freundlichen Grüßen Leo Jäger Gochsheim BlackThumb50(a)cs.com schrieb: > LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON Margaret Peetz born in Wistenselbitz (?) in > Baiern on April 4, 1874. I know she came to USA but am searching for family > information. Also family information on Bernhardt Emile Pomper born August > 28, 1866 in Glaucha in Sachsen. He also emmigrated to USA along with his > father or brother named Gustav. Any information on these people or where I > can write etc. would be appreciated. Thank > you...........................Carolyn Gray > > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/08/06 12:51:30
From: Jaeger Leo <Jaeger-Leo(a)t-online.de>
Hallo Carolyn, Den Namen Peetz gibt es in Wüstenselbitz ca 40 mal im Telefonbuch. Wüstenselbitz gehört zur Stadt Helmbrechts in Oberfranken.Dorthin müssen Sie sich wenden. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Leo Jäger Gochsheim BlackThumb50(a)cs.com schrieb: > LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON Margaret Peetz born in Wistenselbitz (?) in > Baiern on April 4, 1874. I know she came to USA but am searching for family > information. Also family information on Bernhardt Emile Pomper born August > 28, 1866 in Glaucha in Sachsen. He also emmigrated to USA along with his > father or brother named Gustav. Any information on these people or where I > can write etc. would be appreciated. Thank > you...........................Carolyn Gray > > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/08/07 16:58:48
From: REBARTH <REBARTH(a)aol.com>
Who knows if parental permission (for people over the age of 21) to get married was still required in Bavaria after 1868, and for how long thereafter? I am aware of the strict Bavarian residency laws which prevented many from marrying; they were relaxed in 1868. I have ancestors who never married, probably because one was Lutheran and the other was Catholic, and even though they both were of age, they could not get their parents permission to marry (during the period 1873 - 1880). Wer weiss ob man nach 1868 noch die Zustimmung der Eltern brauchte um zu heiraten (auch wenn beide Volljährig waren)? Ich habe Ahnen wo er katholisch und sie evangelisch war, und ich glaube dass die Eltern der Ehe nicht zustimmen wollten. Thanks Roland Barth Bellevue Nebraska
Date: 2000/08/07 17:09:20
From: Pm401kplan <Pm401kplan(a)aol.com>
In a message dated 8/7/00 10:49:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, REBARTH(a)aol.com writes: << I am aware of the strict Bavarian residency laws which prevented many from marrying; they were relaxed in 1868. >> Roland: I wasn't aware of this and would like to learn more about it. Do you know a website that would have more information about these laws? Thank you very much! Paul C. Miller
Date: 2000/08/07 17:15:10
From: LTBoehmke <LTBoehmke(a)aol.com>
Hello, Listers, I have yet to find a marriage record for my Weissdorf, Oberfranken, ggrandfather. The ev. church there has no record of his marriage. He was Johann Wolfgang Linhardt, ev. and she was Margaretha Otto, probably Katolische. They arrived in St Louis, Missouri, USA about 1848-1849. I would be interested to hear more about Oberfranken Marriage laws of that time period. TIA LaVerne ltboehmke(a)aol.com
Date: 2000/08/07 17:48:12
From: REBARTH <REBARTH(a)aol.com>
A good explanation of these restrictive residency laws in Bavaria was in an article: Bavarian Marriage Proclamation and Residency Files, Part I, by Laraine K. Ferguson, in the German Genealogical Digest, published in Salt Lake City. Some Family History Centers (Mormon) may have this Digest. Sorry, I don't have the exact date of that issue, but it was published about 5 years ago. In summary, there were many illegitimate births in Bavaria from about 1825-1868 because of these strict residency laws. It was much more difficult to get married there than in other parts of Germany. The idea was to prevent people who could not support themselves to become "welfare cases" which would then have to be supported by the community. A great source of genealogical information are the "Ansässigmachungs- und Verehelichungsakten" which are the collection of documents needed to get married. The Family History Library has many of these on film for places in Franken (e.g., Bezirksamt- area around - Fürth). Look for "Marriage Banns" in the FHL. Hope this helps Roland
Date: 2000/08/07 20:39:58
From: LTBoehmke <LTBoehmke(a)aol.com>
Thanks for referring to the Ferguson article, Bavarian Marriage Proclamation and Residency Files. I found it in 1989, Volume V, Number 4, Page 129 the German Genealogical Digest. It was called Part 1, but I could not find Part 2 in the next years. I read it at the time I received it, but now I shall read it again. LaVerne ltboehmke(a)aol.com
Date: 2000/08/08 06:57:10
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
Hi listmembers, as most of you know, I started a bunch of lists some years ago and have been taking care of most of them since the beginning. On occasion I can't very well get to a phone line and some items are left hanging for a bit. This is when we are in our RV and on the road. I would like to ask for one or more volunteers for each list who can spell me a bit as needed. It's not a full time thing but it's also an easy job just to handle the bounces, mailbox full messages etc. You would become sort of a part time co-listowner. I would tell you what to do and when to do it. I handle the following lists and would appreciate it if I could get a hand. Please let me know which list you could help out with and I'll see how this can work. Fred
Date: 2000/08/08 08:25:00
From: Patsy J Sawyer <buttons(a)whidbey.net>
|
Hi,
I find this conversation very interesting. My
ggg grandparents must have found themselves in this situation. They lived in
Haundorf and Laubenzedel, small villages near Gunzenhausen. They had five
children there and all born out -of- wedlock. My ggg grandfather after the birth
of his children wrote a letter to the church stating he was the father and the
Pastor noted the info. in the church book.
The Pastor at the Ev. Luth. Church wrote a note
in the year 1850 that out of 18 children born that year 6 were born
illegitimate.
My ggg grandfather born in 1808 was also born
out-of-wedlock but unfortunately the father was not listed.
They emigrated to US in 1852 and lived the rest
of their lives together. In their application for permission to emigrate they
were listed as single and when they landed in NY, they gave their information as
married.
I visited this area in Bavaria this year and ask
the Pastor why all the illegitimate births in the 1800s and he did say that it
was a matter of money. The men did have to prove they could provide for a family
and money did have to be paid to the church.
I don't know about residency but these families
had lived in this area since the early 1600s. They were Protestant Families that
fled Austria in the late 1590s.
Thank you for the information on the German
Genealogical Digest.
Patsy Sawyer in beautiful Washington State
Researching the Labender, Laubener, Schoeberlein, Wolf, Bubin,
Beierlin/Beyerlin,Ruenleim from Mittlefranken, Bavaria.
|
Date: 2000/08/08 15:52:13
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 7 Aug 2000, at 23:20, Patsy J Sawyer wrote: > Hi, > I find this conversation very interesting. My ggg grandparents must > have found themselves in this situation. They lived in Haundorf and > Laubenzedel, small villages near Gunzenhausen. They had five children > there and all born out -of- wedlock. My ggg grandfather after the > birth of his children wrote a letter to the church stating he was the > father and the Pastor noted the info. in the church book. The Pastor > at the Ev. Luth. Church wrote a note in the year 1850 that out of 18 > children born that year 6 were born illegitimate. My ggg grandfather > born in 1808 was also born out-of-wedlock but unfortunately the father > was not listed. This situation seems to be true for the very poor and the very rich. Two extremes of that society. The middle and majority still got married and had children after the fact. It was still normal to marry first - not like today. :-) I've seen genealogies were the illegitimacy was almost normal for generation after generation as the social status never changed. One can see this among their occupation. Typically at the bottom of the social scale. Wascherfrau, breadseller or day laborer was their role in life. Their children would pick up where the parents left off. On the other hand one of my gg...grandmothers was born around that very same Gunzenhausen, probably closer to Altenmuhl, as one of the many illegitmate children of the Freiherr von Lentersheim. I have yet to find her actual birth. Her legitimate sisters all would up marrying upper class nobility but the others had no claim and married as well as they could. In her case she married a Verwalter, who probably managed one of the estates of the father, in Schwabach. Their son became a soldier in the army of the Markgraf of Ansbach and eventually a Feldjäger in the Prussian military. Later he son claimed at least some of her heritage in that her grandchildren married respectfully. One granddaughter even became a Freifrau herself. It certainly wasn't because of her fathers status as a school teacher and cantor. He had been let go from the service. Her ranking and social pecking was legitimized through her grandmother. We must understand that illigitimacy was never normal except under certain circumstances. There was always a stigma attached by society in general. Every church record tells us that there really was a difference, from birth on. Fred 26 Warren St. Beverly, NJ 08010 609-386-6846 fredrump(a)home.com fredrump(a)earthlink.net fred(a)compu.com
Date: 2000/08/08 17:34:38
From: REBARTH <REBARTH(a)aol.com>
There is one more aspect to this topic of illegitimacy in Bavaria in the 19th Century. The advent of the Industrial Revolution brought about many changes in the orderly life on the farm and in the towns. The towns were flooded with cheap labor. So there was a lot more poverty in the towns by second half of the 19th Century. I believe that had a lot to do with the increase in illegitimacy. By the way, many of the couples were able to marry at a later date (when they had saved or inherited enough money) and then the children were legitimized and their name was changed to that of the father. But there be must others (German) out there who have a much better understanding of history and sociology than I and who can shed more light on this topic. Roland Barth
Date: 2000/08/09 00:00:32
From: Lou Henkel <louandjoy2(a)home.com>
Fred, I have not really figured out how to use the list, (but I acknowledge that I have not spent much time trying to figure it out), but am willing to assist you if i can. We also will be away August 12-23, but will be around after that. Secondly, my mother's maiden name was Rump. Her grandfather was Heinrich Christopher Rump, born 25 Apr 1848 in Zarrentin, Mechlenburg, Schwerin, and died in Toledo, OH, 01 Feb 1900 (He married Theodora Marie Sophia Louise Bollenhagen 24 Apr 1875 in Detroit, MI). His siblings were: Johann Carl Christian, Karl, Franz, Ernest, and Sophia (I have no further information on any of these siblings). His father was Johann Joachim Rump and married a Sophie Marie Catherine Grader. I cannot imagine that my gggrandfather did not have siblings, but I have no knowledge of such. Are you able to connect into any of these names or do you have any suggestions as to how I might obtain additional information? Who knows, we may be related.
Date: 2000/08/09 00:00:45
From: Lou Henkel <louandjoy2(a)home.com>
Fred, I have not really figured out how to use the list, (but I acknowledge that I have not spent much time trying to figure it out), but am willing to assist you if i can. We also will be away August 12-23, but will be around after that. Secondly, my mother's maiden name was Rump. Her grandfather was Heinrich Christopher Rump, born 25 Apr 1848 in Zarrentin, Mechlenburg, Schwerin, and died in Toledo, OH, 01 Feb 1900 (He married Theodora Marie Sophia Louise Bollenhagen 24 Apr 1875 in Detroit, MI). His siblings were: Johann Carl Christian, Karl, Franz, Ernest, and Sophia (I have no further information on any of these siblings). His father was Johann Joachim Rump and married a Sophie Marie Catherine Grader. I cannot imagine that my gggrandfather did not have siblings, but I have no knowledge of such. Are you able to connect into any of these names or do you have any suggestions as to how I might obtain additional information? Who knows, we may be related. Lou Henkel
Date: 2000/08/09 00:38:13
From: Warren and Vera Distler <warren-vera(a)home.com>
|
It has also been explained to me that in many
villages that may have been off the beaten path, the priests (be it protestant
or catholic) didn't make rounds to each village in a timely manner. In
fact many churches hosted both religions when a clergy was in town. This lead to
many illegitimate children being born while simply waiting for the wedding
cerimony to take place. Just another
reason>>>
|
Date: 2000/08/10 10:53:55
From: Dr. Antje Kronenberg <kronenberg_antje(a)yahoo.de>
Liebe Listenteilnehmer, kuerzlich erfuhr ich von einem Weltortsverzeichnis auf http://www.calle.com/world Dort sind alle (?) Orte der Welt aufgelistet, mit Laengen- und Breitenangaben sowie Links zu weiteren Infos ueber den entsprechenden Ort. Was ich sehr interessant fand: Orte aus den ehemaligen deutschen Ostgebieten sind auch in der alten deutschen Schreibweise aufgefuehrt. MfG Antje Kronenberg __________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de Yahoo! Mail auf Ihrem Handy? - http://mobil.yahoo.de
Date: 2000/08/13 00:49:00
From: Rolf Nowak <Rolf(a)Nowak.net>
Hallo Listenteilnehmer, ein neues Buch über Ahnenforschung im Internet "Ahnenforschung-online für Dummies" wird Ende August erscheinen. Eine erfolgreiche Serie aus den USA wurde von unserem Teammitglied Birgit Wendt aus dem Amerikanischen ins Deutsche übertragen und dem deutschen Markt angepaßt. Dem Buch liegt eine CD von unserem Partner Genealogy.net anbei. Hier finden sich viele Hinweise zu Genealogie-Programmen und vielen Tipps rund um die Genealogie. Jeder Genealoge sollte dieses Buch als Grundlage für seine weiteren Forschungen einsetzen. Unsere Bestellaktion ist noch bis zum 15. August gültig, also noch 2 Tage. Bis zu diesem Datum liefern wir alle Bestellungen weltweit ohne Portokosten aus. Nähere Informationen und eine Bestellmöglichkeit finden Sie unter: http://ahnenforschung.net/Shop/Gens/index.html Also, nur noch 2 Tage Mit freundlichen Gruß, Rolf Nowak **************************************************************************** Team Ahnenforschung.net http://ahnenforschung.net Genealogie-Service.de GbR: http://www.genealogie-service.de http://genealogie-shop.de Genealogische Forschungsstelle Uslar http://familienforschung.com ****************************************************************************
Date: 2000/08/13 17:19:50
From: Federschmidt <federschmidt(a)wtal.de>
|
Hi Patsy,
as you are researching
Ruenleim:
In my list of anchestors I have one Anna Maria RÜMELEIN
(R"U-Umlaut"MELEIN, or Ruemelein). She married one Johann Christian
FEDERSCHMID in 1791 at Altentrüdingen close to Gunzenhausen
(Altentruedingen - are you getting the "Umlaute" correctly by
email?).
Any connections?
Karl Federschmidt
|
Date: 2000/08/13 17:53:59
From: Federschmidt <federschmidt(a)wtal.de>
To add another story to that subject: My gggfather Joh. Leonhard Federschmidt married one Freiin von Falkenhausen. As he himself came from a low social strata, it took some years until this marriage was possible, and so 2 of their children were born "illegitimately" before that marriage. Actually, the marriage happended 9 years after the birth of the first child and 2 years after the birth of the 2nd child. Both children were made "legitimate" by that marriage, and the couple had another "legitimate" 3rd child after that. There is no sign that the family "von Falkenhausen" did not accept their new son in law and the new family. I know that the children of the couple spent their holidays at the castle, and both (!) parents are buried at the graveyard of the Falkenhausen-family. The problem with the marriage obviously was not so much a personal, but a social one: Joh. Leonhard's father was a "Taglöhner" (daily wage worker) and then a "Pflasterer" and "Wegaufseher" (someone in charge to repair the roads). A family tale says that Joh. Leonhard himself worked as a gardener at the place of the Freiherr von Falkenhausen and thereby came to know one of the daughters of the Freiherr. So his family's social status was really low and a marriage therefore not possible. But at the date of the marriage Joh. Leonhard's father is reported as a "Söldengutsbesitzer" (owner of a small farm) and Joh. Leonhard himself was a "Aufschlageinnehmer" (something like a tax-collector, in the service of the Prussian king). Obviously it took 9 years to arrange that social uplift of Joh. Leonhard and his family. Only then the marriage possible. Karl Federschmidt -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com> An: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Datum: Dienstag, 8. August 2000 15:45 Betreff: Re: [FR] Permission to Marry in Bavaria >On the other hand one of my gg...grandmothers was born around >that very same Gunzenhausen, probably closer to Altenmuhl, as one >of the many illegitmate children of the Freiherr von Lentersheim. I >have yet to find her actual birth. Her legitimate sisters all would up >marrying upper class nobility but the others had no claim and >married as well as they could. In her case she married a Verwalter, >who probably managed one of the estates of the father, in >Schwabach. Their son became a soldier in the army of the >Markgraf of Ansbach and eventually a Feldjäger in the Prussian >military. Later he son claimed at least some of her heritage in that >her grandchildren married respectfully. One granddaughter even >became a Freifrau herself. It certainly wasn't because of her fathers >status as a school teacher and cantor. He had been let go from the >service. Her ranking and social pecking was legitimized through >her grandmother. >
Date: 2000/08/14 03:39:51
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 13 Aug 2000, at 17:46, Federschmidt wrote:
> There is no sign that the family "von
> Falkenhausen" did not accept their new son in law and the new family.
> I know that the children of the couple spent their holidays at the
> castle, and both (!) parents are buried at the graveyard of the
> Falkenhausen-family. The problem with the marriage obviously was not
> so much a personal, but a social one: Joh. Leonhard's father was a
> "Taglöhner" (daily wage worker) and then a "Pflasterer" and
> "Wegaufseher" (someone in charge to repair the roads). A family tale
> says that Joh. Leonhard himself worked as a gardener at the place of
> the Freiherr von Falkenhausen and thereby came to know one of the
> daughters of the Freiherr. So his family's social status was really
> low and a marriage therefore not possible. But at the date of the
> marriage Joh. Leonhard's father is reported as a "Söldengutsbesitzer"
> (owner of a small farm) and Joh. Leonhard himself was a
> "Aufschlageinnehmer" (something like a tax-collector, in the service
> of the Prussian king). Obviously it took 9 years to arrange that
> social uplift of Joh. Leonhard and his family. Only then the marriage
> possible.
It's a shame you don't give any dates. As far as I know the
Falkenhausens lost their property in 1790 to the Freiherren von
Gemmingen. I don't know the circumstances though. Were there no
sons? Since you say 'in service of the Prussian king' and since the
Prussians had very little business down in Frankenland except for
the Margraviate of Ansbach-Bayreuth-Kulmbach and some
Hohenzollern lands, he must have been living in one of those
sections. Yet, Prussian rule was brief after they claimed their
inheritance via the line of Albrecht, the first duke of Prussia. Since
the place was way out of their line of influence Hardenberg
arranged a quick exchange with the Bavarians.
It is also curious that you call the lady a Freiin when she clearly was
not married to a Freiherr. Such titles typically went with the son who
inherited the estate and the title.
This certainly is a strange situation for a family with an ongoing line
and assets which included a castle. I'd really like to know more
about it if you have any information. The Falkenhausen line were
also listed among the registered nobility in the Kanton Altmühl as of
approximately 1720. This was a Kanton in the Ritterkreis Franken
of the Reichsritterschaft with it's seat in Wilhermesdorf.
All this is very close to my v. Lentersheimer family of Altenmuhr
(near the middle of the Altmühl river). This area was definately in
Lehnshohheit der Ansbacher Markgrafen and therefore the later
brief Prussian rule as of 1799. The Lentersheimers too had no
male heir and the line died out. Daughters simply didn't count as
heirs or Freifrauen and had to find other suitors to retain those
titles.
I looked hard to any reference to any Falkenhausen people in my
sources but could find nothing. No inter marriages. One would think
they weren't worthy of marrying into the Lentersheim family because
they didn't own enough. This was definately always a consideration
as marriages were arranged dynastically.
In one of the first lexicons (Lexicon Topographicum 1747) says this
about the time and place:
"Alten-Muhr, ein ansehnliches Schloß und Rittergut, drei Stunden
von Windsbach, an der Altmühl. mit einer Kirche, gehört unter den
Canton Altmühl, denen Herren von Lentersheim und ist der
abgestorbenen Familie von Muhr Stammeshaus gewesen ...
Neuen-Muhr, ein Anspachisch Schloß und Dorf an der Altmühl, zwei
Stunden von Gunzenhausen gegen Ansbach, hat eine evan. Kirche
und gehört dem Herren von Lentersheim im Ritter-Canton Altmühl,
davon schreibt Herr von Falkenstein .. es habe Herr Veit von
Lentersheim, der Anno 1532 gestorben, diese Schloß mit Wällen,
Rondellen und Wassergräben, Thürmen und Pasteyen so befestigt,
daß weit und breit nicht leicht ein so großes Adliges Schloß zu
finden gewesen seyn."
I'm curious as to just were the Falkenhausen folks had their castle in
the area. Do you have the type of information I quoted above?
Fred
26 Warren St.
Beverly, NJ 08010
609-386-6846
fredrump(a)home.com fredrump(a)earthlink.net fred(a)compu.com
Date: 2000/08/14 05:51:59
From: Patsy J Sawyer <buttons(a)whidbey.net>
|
Hi Karl,
There could be connection.
Your RÜMELEIN is spelt the same as mine, from the Church book in
Laubenzedel, near Gunzenhausen.
MARIA RÜMELEIN b. abt. 1650 married abt. 1675
Johann Georg Wolf b,Jan. 30, 1653, Died Jan. 13, 1723 in Laubenzedel.
I think that MARIA RÜMELEIN was born in a different
parish becuase I didn't find her birth date or their marriage date because that
would be in the Church of her famiy. This is the earliest branch of my family so
I don't have any other information RÜMELEIN Family. I had a real problem
reading the Church books and there was not anyone at the Church that could help
me. I really need a professional researcher that can translate the very early
church records. They don't allow copies or scanning to be done of the records or
I could have brought them home to have translated.
I was very lucky in the Laubenzedel Church Books, the index
listed people by families. So it made the research easier.
If anyone knows of a researcher in that area that can read
early German script please let me know.
Patsy buttons(a)whidbey.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Federschmidt <federschmidt(a)wtal.de> To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Date: Sunday, August 13, 2000 6:30 PM Subject: [FR] Re: Researching Ruenleim (was: permission to marry)
|
Date: 2000/08/14 22:35:48
From: Guenter Mielczarek fuer Ato <ato(a)mielczarek.de>
Hallo Patsy und Karl Federschmidt. schaut bitte in meine Hp http://www.mielczarek.de/ato.htm Da sind viele Namen rund um den Hesselberg, Falls Ihr etwas für Euch oder mich findet erbitte ich mail Alfred -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Federschmidt <federschmidt(a)wtal.de> An: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Datum: Montag, 14. August 2000 00:15 Betreff: [FR] Re: Researching Ruenleim (was: permission to marry) Hi Patsy, as you are researching Ruenleim: In my list of anchestors I have one Anna Maria RÜMELEIN (R"U-Umlaut"MELEIN, or Ruemelein). She married one Johann Christian FEDERSCHMID in 1791 at Altentrüdingen close to Gunzenhausen (Altentruedingen - are you getting the "Umlaute" correctly by email?). Any connections? Karl Federschmidt -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Patsy J Sawyer <buttons(a)whidbey.net> An: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Datum: Dienstag, 8. August 2000 15:00 Betreff: [FR] Permission to Marry in Bavaria Patsy Sawyer in beautiful Washington State Researching the Labender, Laubener, Schoeberlein, Wolf, Bubin, Beierlin/Beyerlin,Ruenleim from Mittlefranken, Bavaria. Es gruesst ganz herzlich Guenter Mielczarek aus Hasbergen bei Osnabrueck -- http://www.mielczarek.de oder http://home.t-online.de/home/gmielczarek/
Date: 2000/08/15 00:13:29
From: Peter Kernwein <Peter.Kernwein(a)t-online.de>
Hallo, wer kennt Literatur über Schuldbücher oder kann diese kurz erläutern? Ich habe in einem fränkischen Kirchenbuch einen Schuldbucheintrag von 1748 gefunden und es würde mich interessieren aus welchen Gründen solche Einträge erfolgten. Kann das mit Erbschaft zusammenhängen? Im angegebenen Fall ist eine ganze Reihe von Grundstücken erwähnt. Ich kann mir keinen Reim daraus machen weil ich mich bisher noch nicht mit dieser Problematik befasst habe. Deshalb der Wunsch nach einer Literaturangabe. MfG Peter Kernwein
Date: 2000/08/15 01:02:57
From: Federschmidt <federschmidt(a)wtal.de>
Hi Fred, I'm really not an expert. But I can give you some dates and a little bit background concerning the Freiherren von Falkenhausen. It is another interesting story about marriage practices: Carl Friedrich Wilhelm Markgraf zu Brandenburg-Ansbach (1712-1757) was married to the Prussian Princess Friederike Louise (she was a sister of the Prussian King Frederik the Great). The Prussian kings, the Markgrafen von Ansbach, and the Markgrafen von Kulmbach (Bayreuth) were the tree lines of the Hohenzollern family. In a family-treaty it was even laid down that if one of these lines dies out, a prince from one of the other lines would take over the heritage. So Ansbach indeed had something to do with Prussia. The Markgraf was only 17 years old when this marriage was arranged. The relation was not happy, to say the least. The two hated each other! A divorce was not possible due to many reasons. They had 2 "official" sons. One died soon, the other (Alexander) grew up and later became the new Markgraf von Ansbach, but he had no children to follow him. (is this the reason why the Prussions took over the territory for some time???). But the Markgraf Carl Friedrich Wilhelm loved one Elisabeth Wünsch (1710-1757), a "simple" woman (the story goes that she was the daughter of one of his falkoners). She must have been a strong minded person who knew what she wanted. The Markgraf married her unofficially, probably in 1734, they didn't call it bigami, but a "marriage to the left hand"... ;-) Elisabeth lived for many years at a country-seat of the Markgraf, close to Haundorf (close to Gunzenhausen), and the couple had 4 children (1734 son, 1743 daughter, 1746 daughter, 1748 son). In 1747 the Markgraf succeeded in making his eldest "unofficial" son a "Reichsfreiherr" (he received this title by the emperor of Austria, Franz I., with the consent of the Prussian king), under the fancy name "von Falkenhausen" (the Markgraf was a passionate falconer himself). The other children followed later (1754). They received a number of "Rittergüter" out of the personal propterty of the Markgraf, as "Lehen" and as property. From the two "unofficial" sons of the Markgraf there are descending the 2 lines of the von Falkenhausen family, until today: One line based at Trautskirchen, the other line based at Wald. In my last posting I have called the seat of the Falkenhausen family at Wald a "castle", as it is called "Schloß" in German, but in English this expression might be wrong. "Manor-house" would be more appropriate. It is still existing there. The Falkenhausens definately did not exist in 1720. And I do not know what kind of property they lost in 1790. It cannot be something substantial, because the Falkenhausens live at their residence at Wald until today (as I said before). Is it possible that you mix the names Falkenhausen and Falkenstein?? concerning the terminology : "Freiin" is the title of the daughter of a "Freiherr". A "Freifrau" is the wife of a "Freiherr" (I am not sure whether she must be born noble to bear this title). As the name went with the men at that time, a Freiin lost her name (and title?), when marrying a "not-noble" man. My gggmother I talked about in my last posting is called "Adelheid Freiin von Falkenhausen" on her gravestone. This obviously is her maiden name. You ask for dates: Adelheid (b. 1820, d. 1889) married in 1856 Joh. Leonhard Federschmidt (b. 1820 d. 1905). She was a granddaughter of the first von Falkenhausen. She had 2 brothers, who carried on the Wald-based Falkenhausen line. -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com> An: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Datum: Montag, 14. August 2000 03:33 Betreff: Re: [FR] Permission to Marry in Bavaria >On 13 Aug 2000, at 17:46, Federschmidt wrote: > >> There is no sign that the family "von >> Falkenhausen" did not accept their new son in law and the new family. >> I know that the children of the couple spent their holidays at the >> castle, and both (!) parents are buried at the graveyard of the >> Falkenhausen-family. The problem with the marriage obviously was not >> so much a personal, but a social one: Joh. Leonhard's father was a >> "Taglöhner" (daily wage worker) and then a "Pflasterer" and >> "Wegaufseher" (someone in charge to repair the roads). A family tale >> says that Joh. Leonhard himself worked as a gardener at the place of >> the Freiherr von Falkenhausen and thereby came to know one of the >> daughters of the Freiherr. So his family's social status was really >> low and a marriage therefore not possible. But at the date of the >> marriage Joh. Leonhard's father is reported as a "Söldengutsbesitzer" >> (owner of a small farm) and Joh. Leonhard himself was a >> "Aufschlageinnehmer" (something like a tax-collector, in the service >> of the Prussian king). Obviously it took 9 years to arrange that >> social uplift of Joh. Leonhard and his family. Only then the marriage >> possible. > >It's a shame you don't give any dates. As far as I know the >Falkenhausens lost their property in 1790 to the Freiherren von >Gemmingen. I don't know the circumstances though. Were there no >sons? Since you say 'in service of the Prussian king' and since the >Prussians had very little business down in Frankenland except for >the Margraviate of Ansbach-Bayreuth-Kulmbach and some >Hohenzollern lands, he must have been living in one of those >sections. Yet, Prussian rule was brief after they claimed their >inheritance via the line of Albrecht, the first duke of Prussia. Since >the place was way out of their line of influence Hardenberg >arranged a quick exchange with the Bavarians. > >It is also curious that you call the lady a Freiin when she clearly was >not married to a Freiherr. Such titles typically went with the son who >inherited the estate and the title. > >This certainly is a strange situation for a family with an ongoing line >and assets which included a castle. I'd really like to know more >about it if you have any information. The Falkenhausen line were >also listed among the registered nobility in the Kanton Altmühl as of >approximately 1720. This was a Kanton in the Ritterkreis Franken >of the Reichsritterschaft with it's seat in Wilhermesdorf. > >All this is very close to my v. Lentersheimer family of Altenmuhr >(near the middle of the Altmühl river). This area was definately in >Lehnshohheit der Ansbacher Markgrafen and therefore the later >brief Prussian rule as of 1799. The Lentersheimers too had no >male heir and the line died out. Daughters simply didn't count as >heirs or Freifrauen and had to find other suitors to retain those >titles. > >I looked hard to any reference to any Falkenhausen people in my >sources but could find nothing. No inter marriages. One would think >they weren't worthy of marrying into the Lentersheim family because >they didn't own enough. This was definately always a consideration >as marriages were arranged dynastically. > >In one of the first lexicons (Lexicon Topographicum 1747) says this >about the time and place: > >"Alten-Muhr, ein ansehnliches Schloß und Rittergut, drei Stunden >von Windsbach, an der Altmühl. mit einer Kirche, gehört unter den >Canton Altmühl, denen Herren von Lentersheim und ist der >abgestorbenen Familie von Muhr Stammeshaus gewesen ... > >Neuen-Muhr, ein Anspachisch Schloß und Dorf an der Altmühl, zwei >Stunden von Gunzenhausen gegen Ansbach, hat eine evan. Kirche >und gehört dem Herren von Lentersheim im Ritter-Canton Altmühl, >davon schreibt Herr von Falkenstein .. es habe Herr Veit von >Lentersheim, der Anno 1532 gestorben, diese Schloß mit Wällen, >Rondellen und Wassergräben, Thürmen und Pasteyen so befestigt, >daß weit und breit nicht leicht ein so großes Adliges Schloß zu >finden gewesen seyn." > >I'm curious as to just were the Falkenhausen folks had their castle in >the area. Do you have the type of information I quoted above? > >Fred > > >26 Warren St. >Beverly, NJ 08010 >609-386-6846 >fredrump(a)home.com fredrump(a)earthlink.net fred(a)compu.com > >_______________________________________________ >Franken-L mailing list >Franken-L(a)genealogy.net >http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l > >
Date: 2000/08/15 01:10:17
From: Federschmidt <federschmidt(a)wtal.de>
|
Thank you, Patsy.
Unfortunately my Maria
Rümelein is younger than yours, and I have no information about her except
the name and the date of marriage. So there may be a connection, but we cannot
link it.
Karl
|
Date: 2000/08/15 03:05:58
From: Patsy J Sawyer <buttons(a)whidbey.net>
Hi, I am not very knowledgeable about German or Prussian titles, but my husband and I first visited this area, Gunzenhausen and Haundorf area in 1998 and in June of this year. 'The Haus des Castes' in Haundorf has a video on the History of the area. In this video they do give a little history on Carl Whilhelm Friedrich who was the son of Margravine Christine Charlotte. Carl Wilhelm Friedrich was nicknamed " The Wild Margrave". I took some notes from the Video and by the way you can purchas this video. It is in German and I don't think the video will work on US VCR. Anyway they spoke in the video about Carl Whilelm's mistress Elizabeth Wünsch. Elizabeth, so the story goes insisted on marriage and with money from Carl Wilhelm Fredrich the local Pastor married them. Of couse they pointed out that the Pastor of the Church didn't know that he was already married. There were 4 children of this "marriage to the left hand"... . The Margrave Carl Whilhelm Friedrich built 2 houses in the Haundorf area for his mistress and the family lived there for 72 years. It said that after the Margave and Elizabeth died, the son Alexander of the first wife destroyed one house and only the walls remain. Alexander abdicated in 1791. For a life Annuity of 300 000 florins, he turned his principality over to his Prissian Cousins, on Napoleon's order, ceded Ansbach and its principalit to the new kingdom of Bavaria in 1806. The Ev. Luth. Church in Haundorf dates back to 1485. -----Original Message----- From: Federschmidt <federschmidt(a)wtal.de> To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Date: Monday, August 14, 2000 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [FR] Permission to Marry in Bavaria >Hi Fred, >I'm really not an expert. But I can give you some dates and a little bit >background concerning the Freiherren von Falkenhausen. It is another >interesting story about marriage practices: > >Carl Friedrich Wilhelm Markgraf zu Brandenburg-Ansbach (1712-1757) was >married to the Prussian Princess Friederike Louise (she was a sister of the >Prussian King Frederik the Great). The Prussian kings, the Markgrafen von >Ansbach, and the Markgrafen von Kulmbach (Bayreuth) were the tree lines of >the Hohenzollern family. In a family-treaty it was even laid down that if >one of these lines dies out, a prince from one of the other lines would take >over the heritage. So Ansbach indeed had something to do with Prussia. >The Markgraf was only 17 years old when this marriage was arranged. The >relation was not happy, to say the least. The two hated each other! A >divorce was not possible due to many reasons. They had 2 "official" sons. >One died soon, the other (Alexander) grew up and later became the new >Markgraf von Ansbach, but he had no children to follow him. (is this the >reason why the Prussions took over the territory for some time???). > >But the Markgraf Carl Friedrich Wilhelm loved one Elisabeth Wünsch >(1710-1757), a "simple" woman (the story goes that she was the daughter of >one of his falkoners). She must have been a strong minded person who knew >what she wanted. The Markgraf married her unofficially, probably in 1734, >they didn't call it bigami, but a "marriage to the left hand"... ;-) >Elisabeth lived for many years at a country-seat of the Markgraf, close to >Haundorf (close to Gunzenhausen), and the couple had 4 children (1734 son, >1743 daughter, 1746 daughter, 1748 son). In 1747 the Markgraf succeeded in >making his eldest "unofficial" son a "Reichsfreiherr" (he received this >title by the emperor of Austria, Franz I., with the consent of the Prussian >king), under the fancy name "von Falkenhausen" (the Markgraf was a >passionate falconer himself). The other children followed later (1754). They >received a number of "Rittergüter" out of the personal propterty of the >Markgraf, as "Lehen" and as property. >From the two "unofficial" sons of the Markgraf there are descending the 2 >lines of the von Falkenhausen family, until today: One line based at >Trautskirchen, the other line based at Wald. >In my last posting I have called the seat of the Falkenhausen family at Wald >a "castle", as it is called "Schloß" in German, but in English this >expression might be wrong. "Manor-house" would be more appropriate. It is >still existing there. > >The Falkenhausens definately did not exist in 1720. And I do not know what >kind of property they lost in 1790. It cannot be something substantial, >because the Falkenhausens live at their residence at Wald until today (as I >said before). >Is it possible that you mix the names Falkenhausen and Falkenstein?? > >concerning the terminology : >"Freiin" is the title of the daughter of a "Freiherr". A "Freifrau" is the >wife of a "Freiherr" (I am not sure whether she must be born noble to bear >this title). As the name went with the men at that time, a Freiin lost her >name (and title?), when marrying a "not-noble" man. My gggmother I talked >about in my last posting is called "Adelheid Freiin von Falkenhausen" on her >gravestone. This obviously is her maiden name. > >You ask for dates: >Adelheid (b. 1820, d. 1889) married in 1856 Joh. Leonhard Federschmidt (b. >1820 d. 1905). She was a granddaughter of the first von Falkenhausen. She >had 2 brothers, who carried on the Wald-based Falkenhausen line. > > > >-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >Von: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com> >An: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> >Datum: Montag, 14. August 2000 03:33 >Betreff: Re: [FR] Permission to Marry in Bavaria > > >>On 13 Aug 2000, at 17:46, Federschmidt wrote: >> >>> There is no sign that the family "von >>> Falkenhausen" did not accept their new son in law and the new family. >>> I know that the children of the couple spent their holidays at the >>> castle, and both (!) parents are buried at the graveyard of the >>> Falkenhausen-family. The problem with the marriage obviously was not >>> so much a personal, but a social one: Joh. Leonhard's father was a >>> "Taglöhner" (daily wage worker) and then a "Pflasterer" and >>> "Wegaufseher" (someone in charge to repair the roads). A family tale >>> says that Joh. Leonhard himself worked as a gardener at the place of >>> the Freiherr von Falkenhausen and thereby came to know one of the >>> daughters of the Freiherr. So his family's social status was really >>> low and a marriage therefore not possible. But at the date of the >>> marriage Joh. Leonhard's father is reported as a "Söldengutsbesitzer" >>> (owner of a small farm) and Joh. Leonhard himself was a >>> "Aufschlageinnehmer" (something like a tax-collector, in the service >>> of the Prussian king). Obviously it took 9 years to arrange that >>> social uplift of Joh. Leonhard and his family. Only then the marriage >>> possible. >> >>It's a shame you don't give any dates. As far as I know the >>Falkenhausens lost their property in 1790 to the Freiherren von >>Gemmingen. I don't know the circumstances though. Were there no >>sons? Since you say 'in service of the Prussian king' and since the >>Prussians had very little business down in Frankenland except for >>the Margraviate of Ansbach-Bayreuth-Kulmbach and some >>Hohenzollern lands, he must have been living in one of those >>sections. Yet, Prussian rule was brief after they claimed their >>inheritance via the line of Albrecht, the first duke of Prussia. Since >>the place was way out of their line of influence Hardenberg >>arranged a quick exchange with the Bavarians. >> >>It is also curious that you call the lady a Freiin when she clearly was >>not married to a Freiherr. Such titles typically went with the son who >>inherited the estate and the title. >> >>This certainly is a strange situation for a family with an ongoing line >>and assets which included a castle. I'd really like to know more >>about it if you have any information. The Falkenhausen line were >>also listed among the registered nobility in the Kanton Altmühl as of >>approximately 1720. This was a Kanton in the Ritterkreis Franken >>of the Reichsritterschaft with it's seat in Wilhermesdorf. >> >>All this is very close to my v. Lentersheimer family of Altenmuhr >>(near the middle of the Altmühl river). This area was definately in >>Lehnshohheit der Ansbacher Markgrafen and therefore the later >>brief Prussian rule as of 1799. The Lentersheimers too had no >>male heir and the line died out. Daughters simply didn't count as >>heirs or Freifrauen and had to find other suitors to retain those >>titles. >> >>I looked hard to any reference to any Falkenhausen people in my >>sources but could find nothing. No inter marriages. One would think >>they weren't worthy of marrying into the Lentersheim family because >>they didn't own enough. This was definately always a consideration >>as marriages were arranged dynastically. >> >>In one of the first lexicons (Lexicon Topographicum 1747) says this >>about the time and place: >> >>"Alten-Muhr, ein ansehnliches Schloß und Rittergut, drei Stunden >>von Windsbach, an der Altmühl. mit einer Kirche, gehört unter den >>Canton Altmühl, denen Herren von Lentersheim und ist der >>abgestorbenen Familie von Muhr Stammeshaus gewesen ... >> >>Neuen-Muhr, ein Anspachisch Schloß und Dorf an der Altmühl, zwei >>Stunden von Gunzenhausen gegen Ansbach, hat eine evan. Kirche >>und gehört dem Herren von Lentersheim im Ritter-Canton Altmühl, >>davon schreibt Herr von Falkenstein .. es habe Herr Veit von >>Lentersheim, der Anno 1532 gestorben, diese Schloß mit Wällen, >>Rondellen und Wassergräben, Thürmen und Pasteyen so befestigt, >>daß weit und breit nicht leicht ein so großes Adliges Schloß zu >>finden gewesen seyn." >> >>I'm curious as to just were the Falkenhausen folks had their castle in >>the area. Do you have the type of information I quoted above? >> >>Fred >> >> >>26 Warren St. >>Beverly, NJ 08010 >>609-386-6846 >>fredrump(a)home.com fredrump(a)earthlink.net fred(a)compu.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Franken-L mailing list >>Franken-L(a)genealogy.net >>http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Franken-L mailing list >Franken-L(a)genealogy.net >http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/08/15 06:39:28
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 14 Aug 2000, at 18:02, Patsy J Sawyer wrote:
> It said that after the Margave and Elizabeth died, the son Alexander
> of the first wife destroyed one house and only the walls remain. Alexander
> abdicated in 1791. For a life Annuity of 300 000 florins, he turned
> his principality over to his Prissian Cousins, on Napoleon's order,
> ceded Ansbach and its principalit to the new kingdom of Bavaria in
> 1806. The Ev. Luth. Church in Haundorf dates back to 1485.
>
Interesting discussion has come out of this permission to marry. :-)
I guess I'll change the subject.
I don't have my history in front of me but I don't think this is quite how
it was. Alexander was childless and spent lots of time in Paris living
it up with his girlfriend. He needed money. In effect he retired from
office with a good pension as he knew the Prussian king would
inherit his country anyway. So he might as well enjoy life and he did.
Napoleon had nothing to do with it.
Minister Hardenberg was sent from Berlin to look the place over
and wrote up a lengthy report. I could fish out the exact deal the
Prussians made with Bavaria in their swap. Let's just say that the
Bavarians didn't want the Prussians so close to home and they
themselves were chomping at the bits to include Franconia in their
kingdom. They did not treat the Franks well in that they raided their
treasury of anything useful and shipped it off to places closer to
home and Munich.
My von Lentersheimers were in a similar lack position lacking an
heir and in their case their little fiefdom went to the new owners of
the land, the Brandenburgers of Berlin. This of course was the
Prussian royal family. They promptly gave the estate to Minister
Freiherr Karl August von Hardenberg, for his sevices to the king.
He kept Altenmuhr and Neuenmuhr along with the two
Lentersheimer Schlösser until he sold the whole mess to the
Kammerherr Otto Heinrich von Wülkenitz for 158,000 florins. He
then turned around and sold everything 2 months later to the
Bavarian king for 200,000 florins. A nice quick profit that
Hardenberg could not enjoy as his dealings with Bavaria were at
arms length.
Now that Bavaria owned the estate it tried to figure out what to do
with it and attempted several auctions which were called off at the
last moment for lack of bidders at whatever minimum they had in
mind. The idea was thrown around to tear down the Schlösser
Altenmuhr and Neuenmuhr along with their surrounding walls and
other buildings like the chappel and the Julienberg.
Along came Hortense Beauharnais, Queen of the Netherlands and
sister of the Duke of Leuchtenburg, her son was to go to a German
school and Ansbach was chosen. Hortense was about to buy
Altenmuhr as a suitable place for her son to live. But then they found
out that Ansbach, being Protestant, really had no Catholic church to
speak of, only a small prayer house. Thus the future Emperor of
France did not wind up owning and living in Altenmuhr and
Ansbach.
By 1824 the estate had lost most of its glamour and was getting to
be pretty run down. Along comes the family von Falkenhausen
offering to buy it all for 40,000 florints. The king turned this offer
down too. Finally, in 1826 the regime sold everything to Freiherr
Karl Friedrich von Dankelmann for 54,000 florints. He was also
supposed to spend 15,000 to get the buildings up to snuff. Instead
he started to tear things down but he did rebuild Schloß Altenmuhr
investing another 11,000 florins in the effort. He tore down the other
castle in 1834/35 and died in 1837. By that time he had also sold
275 Morgen (acres?) of the estate. Her heirs still live there to this
day and to think that a direct ancestor of mine and his ancestors for
hundreds of years called this place their home.
Fred
26 Warren St.
Beverly, NJ 08010
609-386-6846
fredrump(a)home.com fredrump(a)earthlink.net fred(a)compu.com
Date: 2000/08/15 10:23:38
From: Holger Zinn <holgerzinn(a)web.de>
Franken-L(a)genealogy.net schrieb am 15.08.00: > Hallo, > > wer kennt Literatur über Schuldbücher oder kann diese kurz erläutern? > > Ich habe in einem fränkischen Kirchenbuch einen Schuldbucheintrag von > 1748 gefunden und es würde mich interessieren aus welchen Gründen solche > > Einträge erfolgten. > Kann das mit Erbschaft zusammenhängen? > Im angegebenen Fall ist eine ganze Reihe von Grundstücken erwähnt. Ich > kann mir keinen Reim daraus machen weil ich mich bisher noch nicht mit > dieser Problematik befasst habe. Deshalb der Wunsch nach einer > Literaturangabe. > Ein Literaturtip, der vielleicht weiterhilft: Titel: Die Schuldbücher von Lübeck, Riga und Hamburg - ihr Quellenwert zur hansischen Frühgeschichte Verfasser: Erich von Lehe In: Städtewesen und Bürgertum als geschichtliche Kräfte : Gedächtnisschrift für Fritz Rörig, (1953), S. 165-177 mfG Holger Zinn ############################################################################# Holger Zinn Ockershäuser Allee 26 35037 Marburg Fon: +49 / 172 / 8128398 (mobilfon) Fax: +49 / +180 / 505254 - 923491 (freemail-fax-service) visit my web-page: http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~zinn ############################################################################# _______________________________________________________________________ 1.000.000 DM gewinnen - kostenlos tippen - http://millionenklick.web.de IhrName(a)web.de, 8MB Speicher, Verschluesselung - http://freemail.web.de
Date: 2000/08/15 11:48:37
From: Federschmidt <federschmidt(a)wtal.de>
Hi Patsy,
What you are writing about the "Wild Margrave" is basically correct, but it
sounds a little bit as if Alexander, the legitimate heir of the Margraviate,
was angry about his "half-brothers" and "half-sisters" von Falkenhausen
("...destroyed one house and only the walls remain").
This is not true. After the death of Margrave CWF, Alexander even became the
godfather to some of their children! And to the son of his half-sister
Eleonora von Falkenhausen (she married one von Nostiz and subsequently
changed her name) not only Alexander became godfather, but his mother
Friederike Louise (the "official" wife of the Margrave, now a widow) became
godmother.
So it seems that all people involved adjusted to the situation and accepted
it quite well.
if you are interested in the Markgraf Carl Wilhelm Friedrich: There is also
a book by Eugen Schöler and H.H. Hofmann, ISBN 3-924461-11-2, title:
Federspiel - Auf den Spuren des Wilden Markgrafen.
Karl
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Patsy J Sawyer <buttons(a)whidbey.net>
An: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net>
Datum: Dienstag, 15. August 2000 02:59
Betreff: Re: [FR] Permission to Marry in Bavaria
>Hi,
>
>I am not very knowledgeable about German or Prussian titles, but my husband
>and I first visited this area, Gunzenhausen and Haundorf area in 1998 and
in
>June of this year. 'The Haus des Castes' in Haundorf has a video on the
>History of the area. In this video they do give a little history on Carl
>Whilhelm Friedrich who was the son of Margravine Christine Charlotte. Carl
>Wilhelm Friedrich was nicknamed " The Wild Margrave".
>I took some notes from the Video and by the way you can purchas this video.
>It is in German and I don't think the video will work on US VCR.
>Anyway they spoke in the video about Carl Whilelm's mistress Elizabeth
>Wünsch. Elizabeth, so the story goes insisted on marriage and with money
>from Carl Wilhelm Fredrich the local Pastor married them. Of couse they
>pointed out that the Pastor of the Church didn't know that he was already
>married.
>There were 4 children of this "marriage to the left hand"... . The Margrave
>Carl Whilhelm Friedrich built 2 houses in the Haundorf area for his
>mistress and the family lived there for 72 years.
> It said that after the Margave and Elizabeth died, the son Alexander of
the
>first wife destroyed one house and only the walls remain. Alexander
>abdicated in 1791. For a life Annuity of 300 000 florins, he turned his
>principality over to his Prissian Cousins, on Napoleon's order, ceded
>Ansbach and its principalit to the new kingdom of Bavaria in 1806.
>The Ev. Luth. Church in Haundorf dates back to 1485.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Federschmidt <federschmidt(a)wtal.de>
>To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net>
>Date: Monday, August 14, 2000 3:53 PM
>Subject: Re: [FR] Permission to Marry in Bavaria
>
>
>>Hi Fred,
>>I'm really not an expert. But I can give you some dates and a little bit
>>background concerning the Freiherren von Falkenhausen. It is another
>>interesting story about marriage practices:
>>
>>Carl Friedrich Wilhelm Markgraf zu Brandenburg-Ansbach (1712-1757) was
>>married to the Prussian Princess Friederike Louise (she was a sister of
the
>>Prussian King Frederik the Great). The Prussian kings, the Markgrafen von
>>Ansbach, and the Markgrafen von Kulmbach (Bayreuth) were the tree lines of
>>the Hohenzollern family. In a family-treaty it was even laid down that if
>>one of these lines dies out, a prince from one of the other lines would
>take
>>over the heritage. So Ansbach indeed had something to do with Prussia.
>>The Markgraf was only 17 years old when this marriage was arranged. The
>>relation was not happy, to say the least. The two hated each other! A
>>divorce was not possible due to many reasons. They had 2 "official" sons.
>>One died soon, the other (Alexander) grew up and later became the new
>>Markgraf von Ansbach, but he had no children to follow him. (is this the
>>reason why the Prussions took over the territory for some time???).
>>
>>But the Markgraf Carl Friedrich Wilhelm loved one Elisabeth Wünsch
>>(1710-1757), a "simple" woman (the story goes that she was the daughter of
>>one of his falkoners). She must have been a strong minded person who knew
>>what she wanted. The Markgraf married her unofficially, probably in 1734,
>>they didn't call it bigami, but a "marriage to the left hand"... ;-)
>>Elisabeth lived for many years at a country-seat of the Markgraf, close to
>>Haundorf (close to Gunzenhausen), and the couple had 4 children (1734 son,
>>1743 daughter, 1746 daughter, 1748 son). In 1747 the Markgraf succeeded in
>>making his eldest "unofficial" son a "Reichsfreiherr" (he received this
>>title by the emperor of Austria, Franz I., with the consent of the
Prussian
>>king), under the fancy name "von Falkenhausen" (the Markgraf was a
>>passionate falconer himself). The other children followed later (1754).
>They
>>received a number of "Rittergüter" out of the personal propterty of the
>>Markgraf, as "Lehen" and as property.
>>From the two "unofficial" sons of the Markgraf there are descending the 2
>>lines of the von Falkenhausen family, until today: One line based at
>>Trautskirchen, the other line based at Wald.
>
Date: 2000/08/15 13:20:06
From: Willi Diener <willidiener(a)freenet.de>
Die Gruppe Familien und Wappenkunde in Stiftung Bahn Sozialwerk Bezirk Nürnberg mit Sitz in Aschaffenburg veranstaltet unter der Regie des Heimatbundes Oberbessenbach am Samstag, den 14 Oktober 2000 von 13.00 18.00 Uhr im Vereinsheim an der Kirche von Oberbessenbach einen Tag der offenen Türen zu dem wir recht herzlich einladen. Bei dieser Veranstaltung können sich alle inter. Besucher über alle die Familienforschung betreffenden Fragen Auskunft erteilen lassen. Namhafte Forscher aus unserem Heimatgebiet stehen für Sie bereit, um sich Ihren Fragen und Problemen zur Familienforschung anzunehmen. Ebenso können Sie sich über gängige Computerprogramme für die Erfassung und Verwaltung Ihrer Familienforschung Informieren. Es versteht sich von selbst, dass auch von unseren Mitgliedern Erstellte Familienbücher zu Ihrer Einsicht bereitgehalten werden. Speziell für diese Veranstaltung wurden verschiedene Broschüren als Hilfen für den Familienforscher erstellt, welche kostenlos abgegeben werden solange der Vorrat reicht. Eine von der Gruppe erstellte CD mit über 50.000 Personen aus unserer Gegend kann bei Interesse bestellt werden. Ebenso der gebundene Index - des Kirchenbuches von Damm, 1826 mit 1875. Abgerundet wird die Veranstaltung durch ein Quiz über die Familienforschung, bei welchem Gutscheine zu gewinnen sind. Folgende Forscher ( innen) stehen als Helfer für Sie bereit: AULBACH Reinhard Aschaffenburg BRAUN Brigitte & Harald Oberbessenbach DIEL Alfred Großkrotzenburg DIENER Willi Oberbessenbach FREUND Erich Leidersbach JUNG Elisabeth & Manfred Kleinwallstadt LUDWIG Edgar Steinbach REILING Albrecht Aschaffenburg Aus den ausgehängten Infoblättern entnehmen Sie bitte den jeweiligen Arbeitsanteil dieser o. a. Forscher ( innen), welche Ihnen zu den betr. Themen kompetente Hilfe erteilen werden. Für alle noch anstehenden Fragen zu dieser Veranstaltung wenden Sie sich bitte an: Willi Diener Bessenbachstr. 99 63856 Bessenbach Tel.: 06095 / 3673 Fax : 06095 / 995164 E-Mail: willidiener(a)freenet.de
Date: 2000/08/16 16:22:00
From: Dr. Michael Rauck <rauck(a)gmx.ch>
Liebe Listenmitglieder, Ich bin neues Mitglied der Mailing Liste und möchte mich kurz vorstellen: Ich heiße Michael Rauck, bin 43 und war bis vor kurzem in Japan als Hochschullehrer im Bereich der Wirtschaftswissenschaften tätig. Genealogie betreibe ich mittlerweile seit 28 Jahren, mit wachsender Begeisterung nutze ich die Möglichkeiten, die das Internet für den Forschungsaustausch bietet. Meine genealogische Datenbank ist auch bei http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=rauck zu finden. Ich möchte in dieser Liste sukzessive die Familiennamen meiner fränkischen Ahnen veröffentlichen und später auch gezielt zu toten Punkten nachfragen. Heute fange ich mit dem Spessart an (Kahlgrund, v.a. die Pfarrgemeinde Geiselbach mit den Orten Omersbach und Hofstädten): S U R N A M E S in and around the village/parish of Geiselbach in the Kahlgrund area of the Spessart in Lower Franconia (all were roman catholic): A Allich, Amberg (before 1739 from Wiesen) B Bopp, Büttner G Gyron (Chyron) H Heilmann N Neess P Pfaff (before 1813 from Schöllkrippen) R Reissing, Rosenberger S Stenger T Thoma V Volk Es würde mich freuen, zum Forschungsaustausch beitragen zu können. Michael Rauck
Date: 2000/08/16 16:22:01
From: Dr. Michael Rauck <rauck(a)gmx.ch>
Liebe Mistenmitglieder, anbei die Familiennamen meiner Ahnen aus der Fränkischen Schweiz, v.a. um Hollfeld und Waischenfeld: I enclose the surnames of my Ancestors from the Fränkische Schweiz area, particularly from and around Hollfeld and Waischenfeld: B Berf (from Reizendorf), Bitterauf/Pitteroff (from Hollfeld) D Daschner (from Welckendorf, Hollfeld), Dipold (from Hollfeld), Dorsch (from Kotzendorf) E Erlethmann (from Hollfeld?) G Gleismann (from Burgellern) H Hörtenberger (from Stechendorf, Kotzendorf parish of Hollfeld) P Pitteroff / Bitterauf (from Hollfeld), Popp (from Poxdorf, Kotzendorf) R Ringmüller (from Hollfeld), Rösler (from Kotzendorf?) S Schrenker (from Sachsendorf, Tiefenlesau, Gottelhof, Treppendorf parish of Hollfeld), Söhnlein (from Schresendorf), Steinlein (from Waischenfeld), Stenglein (from Voitmannsdorf parish of Königsfeld) V Vogel (from Wotendorf, Schresendorf, Hollfeld) W Waass (from Stadtsteinach/Waischenfeld), Werl/Wehrl (from Gutenbiegen, parish of Weischenfeld), Wohlfart (from Langenweil, paarish of Volsbach) In der Hoffnung auf viele Kontakte und regen Forschungsaustausch Hoping for many contacts and exchanges Michael Rauck
Date: 2000/08/16 18:51:40
From: Dr. Michael Rauck <rauck(a)gmx.ch>
Liebe Listenmitglieder, anbei die Familiennamen meiner Ahnen aus dem Grabfeld, v.a. aus Trappstadt und Humprechtshausen: I enclose the surnames of my ancestors from the Grabfeld area, particularly from Trappstadt and Humprechtshausen: E Eller (from Kleinsteinach, Humprechtshausen) H Helmut (from Waltershausen, vermutlich Thüringen) Hemert (from Kornfeld) Horn (from Humprechtshausen?) S Schnaus (from Kleinsteinach, Humprechtshausen) Seminet (from Trappstadt) W Willinger / Willner (from Kleinsteinach, Humprechtshausen) In der Hoffnung auf viele Kontakte und regen Forschungsaustausch Hoping for many contacts and exchanges Michael Rauck
Date: 2000/08/16 18:51:41
From: Dr. Michael Rauck <rauck(a)gmx.ch>
Liebe Listenmitglieder, anbei die Familiennamen meiner Ahnen aus dem Steigerwald, v.a. aus Untersteinbach: I enclose the surnames of my ancestors from the Steigerwald area, particularly from and around Untersteinbach: A Antretter / Andryts (from Falsbrunn) B Bickel / Buckel (from Fatschenbrunn) Boertlein (from Schmerb, Geusfeld) E Ebert (from Obersteinbach, Schmerb, Preppach) G Graser (from Tretzendorf, Trossenfurt, Kehlingsdorf, Falsbrunn, Untersteinbach) Greb (from Untersteinbach) H Hänfling / Henffling (from Karbach, Obersteinbach, Geusfeld) Hermann (from Falsbrunn) Hermesfelder (from Tretzendorf) K Knorz (from Falsbrunn) L Lay (from Karbach) R Ramig / Romig (from Schmerb) Rösing (from Steinbach) Rudolph (from Untersteinbach?) Rüttinger (from Untersteinbach) S Schmitt (from Untersteinbach) Schmitt (from Fatschenbrunn) Schug (from Oberschleichach) Schumann (from Reichenheim) Siller (from Trossenfurt) U Ullrich (from Koppenwindheim, Untersteinbach) W Wagner (from Waisbrunn) Z Zingat? (from Untersteinbach?) Zink (from Untersteinbach?) In der Hoffnung auf viele Kontakte und regen Forschungsaustausch Hoping for many contacts and exchanges Michael Rauck
Date: 2000/08/16 18:51:42
From: Dr. Michael Rauck <rauck(a)gmx.ch>
Liebe Listenmitglieder,
anbei die Familiennamen meiner Ahnen aus der Gegend von Weismain und
Scheßlitz:
I enclose the surnames of my ancestors from the Weismain/Scheßlitz area:
B Berwing (from Oberküps??)
D Deckelmann (from Burgellern)
F Fischer (from Burgkunstadt)
H Hornung (from Trieb)
O Ott (from Gundelsheim)
P Pfadenhauer (from Weismain?)
R Raab (from Weismain)
Reich (from Weismain)
Rothlauf (Rottlauf, Rottlauff, Rudlauff, Rudolff, Rudolph)
(from Oberküps, Unteroberndorf, Burgellern, Ludwag, Weismain)
Rudel (from Ludwag)
W Weber (from Weismain)
In der Hoffnung auf viele Kontakte und regen Forschungsaustausch
Hoping for many contacts and exchanges
Michael Rauck
Date: 2000/08/16 18:52:19
From: Dr. Michael Rauck <rauck(a)gmx.ch>
Liebe Listenmitglieder, anbei die Familiennamen meiner Ahnen aus Enchenreuth: I enclose the surnames of my ancestors from Enchenreuth: A Atzendörfer B Bösenecker D Dietz / Diez E Edelmann F Friedrich G Götz / Göz H Höhn L Lohner P Pittroff S Sailer Schütz Z Zeidler In der Hoffnung auf viele Kontakte und regen Forschungsaustausch Hoping for many contacts and exchanges Michael Rauck
Date: 2000/08/18 21:46:36
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
"Internal Server ErrorThe server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator, webmaster(a)foko.genealogy.net and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done
that may have caused the error. Premature end of script headers: /web/ll/cgi-bin/FOKO/suche Apache/1.3.3 Server at foko.genealogy.net Port 80"I was able to get results a couple of weeks ago so I don't think it is anything I am doing. Is anyone else having a problem with this search site or is this an isolated case?
Thanks, Best Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/08/18 23:55:52
From: Larry Flinner, Jr. <llflinner(a)webtv.net>
Hello Larry, I don't know which page you are linked to, but try this one: http://www.volksbund.de/VuTDB/vut_suche.asp I just tried it and it worked fine. Over the months that I have been visiting there I have noticed a similar message from time to time. (I don't know why???) Just keep trying. Larry ----Original Message---- Larry Mastromatteo wrote: I am having a problem with the Foko search site. When I enter a name in the name field and then push the search button I end up with an error that reads: "Internal Server Error . . ."
Date: 2000/08/19 00:28:17
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Larry: The page I am having trouble with is: http://foko.genealogy.net/ and I just tried it again and the same error comes up. Best Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/08/19 00:45:20
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 18 Aug 2000, at 16:19, Larry Mastromatteo wrote: > Hi Larry: > > The page I am having trouble with is: > > http://foko.genealogy.net/ > > and I just tried it again and the same error comes up. Works fine here in NJ using IE. Fred 26 Warren St. Beverly, NJ 08010 609-386-6846 fredrump(a)home.com fredrump(a)earthlink.net fred(a)compu.com
Date: 2000/08/19 00:58:20
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Fred:I have both Internet Explorer and Netscape, tried both and I still can't get it to work. Boy this sure strange.
I think I will call my Internet provider. Anyway, thanks Fred. Best Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/08/19 01:20:36
From: Larry Flinner, Jr. <llflinner(a)webtv.net>
Hello Larry, Sorry "bout my last reply. Wait a minute while I get my head screwed back on. (:-0) You said "FOKO", I was thinking "Volksbund". I just tried FOKO, and it works here in Ohio. "Oops", from Ohio, Larry ----Original Message---- <<The page I am having trouble with is: http://foko.genealogy.net/ and I just tried it again and the same error comes up.>>
Date: 2000/08/19 01:56:02
From: John Merz <hessian(a)cgocable.net>
Thanks, tried it first time, works here in Canada. Mind you, it seems you have to understand German (I do). John from Lake Ontario. From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com> Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 6:43 PM > On 18 Aug 2000, at 16:19, Larry Mastromatteo wrote: > > > > The page I am having trouble with is: > > > > http://foko.genealogy.net/ > Works fine here in NJ using IE. > > Fred
Date: 2000/08/19 03:39:04
From: Dwolff3 <Dwolff3(a)aol.com>
Could someone give the translation of the entry lines in English so all may use this site? Jo Ann
Date: 2000/08/19 09:46:32
From: Irmi Gegner-Suenkler <irmiGS(a)t-online.de>
Yes, I try : 1.NAME ( exactly - beginning of the name - phonetic search) 2. Period of time (from - to) 3. State 4. territory (like East Prussia .......) 5. village (exactly - beginning of name) 6. only if you know these strange letters and numbers from GOV2 (otherwise you leave it blank) 7. you can fill in what you want to have ignored You can just type a name and a state - you don't have to type all the entries. If you get results you have to sign (mouse click) the one you want (on the right of the page) - then you have to give you mail adress - and you will get the adress of someone who is researching the same surnames .......... Perhaps it would habe been better if a native speaker would have translated all this :-))) Irmi from Germany Dwolff3(a)aol.com schrieb: > Could someone give the translation of the entry lines in English so all may > use this site? > Jo Ann > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/08/19 15:35:20
From: Warren and Vera Distler <warren-vera(a)home.com>
Many of us are already aware of an on-line service provided by Alta Vista called Babel Fish. Funny name for a wonderful internet tool that allows you to place words, sentances or even web page url's into it's page interface to receive very quick and understandable translations. I use the term understandable as the translation is only meant to give you the gist of the subject matter. Single words translate just fine, but whole paragraphs and entire pages are somewhat conveluted. It is however a resource worth bookmarking for any German, French, Italian, etc. web site where you need translation. I use it all the time. As an example of how the translator works, here is how it handled this post. The hyper-link follows the translation below. (Babel Fish Ebglish to German Translation) Viele von uns berücksichtigen bereits einen Onlineservice, der durch Alta Vista benannte Babelfische bereitgestellt wird. Lustiger Name für ein wundervolles Internet-Hilfsmittel, das Ihnen erlaubt, Wörter, sentances oder sogar 4web- pagecUrl in ihn zu plazieren, ist die Seite Schnittstelle zum Empfangen der sehr schnellen und verständlichen Übersetzungen. Ich verwende die verständliche Bezeichnung, während die Übersetzung nur bedeutet wird, um Ihnen das gist des Themas zu geben. Einzelne Wörter übersetzen gerade Geldstrafe, aber vollständige Paragraphen und gesamte Seiten sind conveluted ein wenig. Es ist jedoch ein Hilfsmittel wert das Bookmarken für jede deutsche, französische, italienische, etc.-Web site, in der Sie Übersetzung benötigen. Ich verwende es die ganze Zeit. Als Beispiel von, wie der Übersetzer arbeitet, ist hier, wie es diesen Pfosten anfaßte. Der Hyper-link folgt der Übersetzung unten. (URL) http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/translate.dyn
Date: 2000/08/19 20:57:42
From: Mike Summerer <msummerer(a)loudoun.com>
I'm looking for information on Johann George Oberhauser, burger und garnWeber zu WasserTrudingen, Ansbach. His son Johann Martin Oberhauser married Maria Charlotte Schmidtin on 9 Feb 1751 at St. Georgen Kirche, Berlin. Suggestions for finding records from Wassertrüdingen would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Mike Summerer Leesburg, VA
Date: 2000/08/20 00:39:27
From: Federschmidt <federschmidt(a)wtal.de>
The Protestant Churchbooks of Altentrüdingen (and probably of Wassertrüdingen, too) are kept at: Evang. Luth. Pfarramt Obermögersheim Pfr. Jobst Bittig Obermögersheim 104 91717 Wassertrüdingen. phone and fax: +49-9836-483 You can address your inquiries to Rev. Jobst Bittig. No idea about fees or the like. good luck! Karl Federschmidt -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Mike Summerer <msummerer(a)loudoun.com> An: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Datum: Samstag, 19. August 2000 20:49 Betreff: [FR] Oberhauser im Wasstruedingen > I'm looking for information on Johann George Oberhauser, >burger und garnWeber zu WasserTrudingen, Ansbach. > >His son Johann Martin Oberhauser married Maria Charlotte Schmidtin >on 9 Feb 1751 at St. Georgen Kirche, Berlin. > >Suggestions for finding records from Wassertrüdingen would be >greatly appreciated. > >Thank you >Mike Summerer >Leesburg, VA > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Franken-L mailing list >Franken-L(a)genealogy.net >http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l > >
Date: 2000/08/20 02:57:18
From: Dwolff3 <Dwolff3(a)aol.com>
Does anyone know where the Lutheran Church archives are kept for the area
between Bayreuth and Pegnitz.
All of my ancestors in my mothers line come from this area and are
Lutheran. They came to America between 1835 and 1850. Here is a list with
their names, birthdates, and the town they came from.
Johann Eisenhut, b. 18 July 1811, Obernsees; m. Barbara Arneth
(possibly Arnold), b. 2 June 1819, Trubbach
Johann Arnold, b. 20 October 1795, Busbach; m. Ursella Arneth (mother of
Barbara Arneth), b. 8 July 1781, Trubbach
Johann Michael Joseph Hacker, b. 23 November 1812, Lindenhardt; m. Anna
Margaretha Preuss, b. 13 April 1811, Unterschrots
Johann Georg Kuffner, b. 21 February 1805, Schwurtz; m. Anna Katherina
Beck, b. 3 December 1806, Neuhof
Parents of Johann Georg Kuffner: John Kuffner, b. 15 August 1757,
Schwurtz; m. Barbara Bauman, b. 15 January 1763, Seidwitz
Parents of Anna Katherina Beck: Johann Beck, b. 28 December 1778, Bav;
m. Anna Elizabeth Meyer, 16 March 1778, Bav.
Son of Johann Georg Kuffner: Albrecht Kuffner, b. 19 July 1833,
Schwurtz; m. Sophiz Rauh, b. April 1831, Bav.
Johann Schiller, b. 12 September 1809 Mistlebach; m. Katherine Hacker b. 6
December 1834, Gees
Parents of Katherine Hacker: George Hacker b. 8 June 1798, Obernsees; m.
Elizabeth Eisenhut, b. 10 February 1803, Obernsees
John Michael Hagen b. 26 February 1805, Bav.; m. Margaretha Meyer, b. 10
March 1809, Bav.
John Keller, b. 23 August 1830, Bav.; m. Margaretha Hagen, b. 2
April 1833, Bav., daughter of John Michael Hagen and Margaretha Meyer Johann
Neukam, b. Wasserkraut; m. Barbara Grabner, b. Unterolschnitz; Margaretha
Meister, b. 24 June 1799 Schnabelwald
John Krodel, b. 9 September 1819, Wasserkraut
Parents of Johann Krodel: Johann Krodel, Sr., b. 2 January 1790,
Grosswaigelreuth; m. Anna Neukam, b. 26 January 1795, Wasserkraut
If anyone is working on this area, please contact me at dwolff3(a)aol.com.
I also need the key to write umlauts on the keyboard. If anyone has this,
I would appreciate it very much.
Thank you in advance,
Jo Ann
Date: 2000/08/20 03:47:15
From: Ann Salzmann <asalzman(a)uiuc.edu>
I'm new to this list, and would just like to see if anyone else is interested in the little villages of Limmersdorf and/or Buchau .. which are fairly near Thurnau in Oberfranken. (Which is not too far from Bayreuth.) The family I'm interested in is: Adam LAUTERBACH, blacksmith, born 1835 in Buchau, married in Limmersdorf in 1867 to Anna Margaretha TAUER, born 1842 in Limmersdorf (She was the widow of Andreas DOPPEL of Limmersdorf) They came, with two small daughters, to Newark, New Jersey, in 1872. Adam's parents were: Johann Wolfgang LAUTERBACH (blacksmith, b. 1803 in Buchau) married in 1833 in Buchau to Margaretha Dorothea HOFFMANN, b. 1809, Dorfles The earlies LAUTERBACH I know of would be his ggrandfather, Johann Wolfgang LAUTERBACH farmer from Peesten. Margaretha's parents were: Johann Konrad TAUER (1806-1872, farmer, Limmersdorf) married in Limmersdorf in 1830 to Catharina LEPPERT The earliest TAUER I know of was Margaretha's gggrandfather, Johann Jobst TAUER, farmer, married in 1723 for the second time, to Margaretha HUBER, in Limmersdorf. I had a wonderful visit to both of these churches last summer, but only had a few hours in each to try to learn as much as possible. Of course I could only scratch the surface, and am trying to figure out a way to go back. If anyone else is interested in these villages or this family, I'd be very interested in sharing. (I can read German fairly well, so responses in German would be fine. Writing in German is a pretty slow process for me, so I'm hoping it's OK to post this in English. But I CAN manage in poor German if needed.) Ann Salzmann (Champaign, Ill.)
Date: 2000/08/20 08:25:44
From: Peter Kernwein <Peter.Kernwein(a)t-online.de>
Hallo, ich suche den Standort der Kirchenbücher von Ludwigsburg. Sind sie mikroverfilmt? MfG Peter Kernwein
Date: 2000/08/20 10:06:29
From: Ernst Dürr <Duerr-Wachengrund(a)t-online.de>
Hello Ann, were your ancestors Salzmann Glassmakers? I have such. Ernst -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Ann Salzmann <asalzman(a)uiuc.edu> An: <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Gesendet: Sonntag, 20. August 2000 03:38 Betreff: [FR] LAUTERBACH in Limmersdorf/Buchau > I'm new to this list, and would just like to see if anyone else is > interested in the little villages of Limmersdorf and/or Buchau .. which are > fairly near Thurnau in Oberfranken. (Which is not too far from Bayreuth.) > The family I'm interested in is: > > Adam LAUTERBACH, blacksmith, born 1835 in Buchau, > married in Limmersdorf in 1867 to > Anna Margaretha TAUER, born 1842 in Limmersdorf > (She was the widow of Andreas DOPPEL of Limmersdorf) > They came, with two small daughters, to Newark, New Jersey, in 1872. > > Adam's parents were: > Johann Wolfgang LAUTERBACH (blacksmith, b. 1803 in Buchau) > married in 1833 in Buchau to > Margaretha Dorothea HOFFMANN, b. 1809, Dorfles > > The earlies LAUTERBACH I know of would be his ggrandfather, Johann Wolfgang > LAUTERBACH farmer from Peesten. > > Margaretha's parents were: > Johann Konrad TAUER (1806-1872, farmer, Limmersdorf) > married in Limmersdorf in 1830 to > Catharina LEPPERT > > The earliest TAUER I know of was Margaretha's gggrandfather, Johann Jobst > TAUER, farmer, married in 1723 for the second time, to Margaretha HUBER, in > Limmersdorf. > > I had a wonderful visit to both of these churches last summer, but only had > a few hours in each to try to learn as much as possible. Of course I could > only scratch the surface, and am trying to figure out a way to go back. > > If anyone else is interested in these villages or this family, I'd be very > interested in sharing. (I can read German fairly well, so responses in > German would be fine. Writing in German is a pretty slow process for me, > so I'm hoping it's OK to post this in English. But I CAN manage in poor > German if needed.) > > Ann Salzmann > (Champaign, Ill.) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/08/20 11:51:45
From: weis187 <weis187(a)excite.de>
Hallo, von wo kommen Deine Dürr? Aus dem Stuttgarter raum? Mfg Willi.Eisenhardt.(a)uni.de Am Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:52:32 +0200, schrieb Franken-L(a)genealogy.net: > Hello Ann, > > were your ancestors Salzmann Glassakers? I have such. > > Ernst > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Ann Salzmann <asalzman(a)uiuc.edu> > An: <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 20. August 2000 03:38 > Betreff: [FR] LAUTERBACH in Limmersdorf/Buchau > > > > I'm new to this list, and would just like to see if anyone else is > > interested in the little villages of Limmersdorf and/or Buchau .. which > are > > fairly near Thurnau in Oberfranken. (Which is not too far from Bayreuth.) > > The family I'm interested in is: > > > > Adam LAUTERBACH, blacksmith, born 1835 in Buchau, > > married in Limmersdorf in 1867 to > > Anna Margaretha TAUER, born 1842 in Limmersdorf > > (She was the widow of Andreas DOPPEL of Limmersdorf) > > They came, with two small daughters, to Newark, New Jersey, in 1872. > > > > Adam's parents were: > > Johann Wolfgang LAUTERBACH (blacksmith, b. 1803 in Buchau) > > married in 1833 in Buchau to > > Margaretha Dorothea HOFFMANN, b. 1809, Dorfles > > > > The earlies LAUTERBACH I know of would be his ggrandfather, Johann > Wolfgang > > LAUTERBACH farmer from Peesten. > > > > Margaretha's parents were: > > Johann Konrad TAUER (1806-1872, farmer, Limmersdorf) > > married in Limmersdorf in 1830 to > > Catharina LEPPERT > > > > The earliest TAUER I know of was Margaretha's gggrandfather, Johann Jobst > > TAUER, farmer, married in 1723 for the second time, to Margaretha HUBER, > in > > Limmersdorf. > > > > I had a wonderful visit to both of these churches last summer, but only > had > > a few hours in each to try to learn as much as possible. Of course I > could > > only scratch the surface, and am trying to figure out a way to go back. > > > > If anyone else is interested in these villages or this family, I'd be very > > interested in sharing. (I can read German fairly well, so responses in > > German would be fine. Writing in German is a pretty slow process for me, > > so I'm hoping it's OK to post this in English. But I CAN manage in poor > > German if needed.) > > > > Ann Salzmann > > (Champaign, Ill.) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Franken-L mailing list > > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l _______________________________________________________ Kostenlose E-Mail von Excite http://inbox.excite.de/
Date: 2000/08/20 11:54:27
From: weis187 <weis187(a)excite.de>
Am Sat, 19 Aug 2000 22:14:31 +0200, schrieb Franken-L(a)genealogy.net: > Hallo, > > ich suche den Standort der Kirchenbücher von Ludwigsburg. > Sind sie mikroverfilmt? > > MfG > Peter Kernwein > > Wende Dich an den Verein für Familinen und Wappenkund in Stuttgart. MfG WEISENHADT > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l _______________________________________________________ Kostenlose E-Mail von Excite http://inbox.excite.de/
Date: 2000/08/20 14:05:39
From: Holger Zinn <holgerzinn(a)web.de>
Franken-L(a)genealogy.net schrieb am 20.08.00: > Many of us are already aware of an on-line service provided by Alta Vista > called Babel Fish. Funny name for a wonderful internet tool that allows you > to place words, sentances or even web page url's into it's page interface to > receive very quick and understandable translations. just about the name: the babelfish is a little fish that can translate every language in every other language. It is put in the ear of a person and starts working immediately. See Douglas Adams: the hitch hiker´s guide to the galaxy and the internet-version of the guide at: www.h2g2.com Best regards Holger > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l not) ############################################################################# Holger Zinn Ockershäuser Allee 26 35037 Marburg Fon: +49 / 172 / 8128398 (mobilfon) Fax: +49 / +180 / 505254 - 923491 (freemail-fax-service) visit my web-page: http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~zinn ############################################################################# _______________________________________________________________________ 1.000.000 DM gewinnen - kostenlos tippen - http://millionenklick.web.de IhrName(a)web.de, 8MB Speicher, Verschluesselung - http://freemail.web.de
Date: 2000/08/20 17:04:31
From: Dr. Antje Kronenberg <kronenberg_antje(a)yahoo.de>
Hallo, eine ganze Reihe von Kirchenbüchern aus Ludwigsburg ist von den Mormonen verfilmt worden, sowohl evangelische als auch katholische. Die Liste finden Sie im Family History Library Catalog, im Internet unter http://www.familysearch.org/Search/searchcatalog.asp MfG Antje Kronenberg --- Peter Kernwein <Peter.Kernwein(a)t-online.de> schrieb: > Hallo, > > ich suche den Standort der Kirchenbücher von Ludwigsburg. > Sind sie mikroverfilmt? > > MfG > Peter Kernwein > > > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l __________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de Yahoo! Mail auf Ihrem Handy? - http://mobil.yahoo.de
Date: 2000/08/20 19:19:03
From: Gudrun & Helmut Rieger <Kombii(a)t-online.de>
Hallo Willi, muß mich doch kurz einschalten. Mein Mann hat in seiner AL eine Familie DÜRR aus Stuttgart. Allerdings ist sie noch nicht so intensiv erforscht, weil ich eigentlich nach m e i n e n Vorfahren (u.a. Franken)und nicht nach seinen forsche. Vielleicht könnten wir einmal nähere Informationen austauschen? Gruss Gudrun Baron-Rieger aus Leonberg weis187(a)excite.de schrieb: > Hallo, > von wo kommen Deine Dürr? Aus dem Stuttgarter raum? > Mfg > Willi.Eisenhardt.(a)uni.de > ___________________________________________________________ Suche/searching im Kreis Neustadt/Oberschlesien BARON,PISARCZYK,PISARTZIK (Mochau/Deutsch Müllmen) ALTER, ARNDT, BERGER, BÖNISCH,HOFFMANN, KOLOCZEK/ KOLODZI/KOLODZIEY, LUDWIG, SUCHAN, ZYSKA (Oberglogau/Repsch)
Date: 2000/08/20 21:34:53
From: Willi Diener <willidiener(a)freenet.de>
Suche weitere Daten zu dem Familiennamen Popp aus Rothenburg o. d. Tauber Siehe Anhang Gruß Willi
Attachment:
Die Nachkommen des Tobias Popp.doc
Description: MS-Word document
Date: 2000/08/21 10:12:52
From: Bernd Freibott <freibott(a)hotmail.com>
Hallo, es gibt eine neue Webpage: http://www.geocities.com/wappenrolle/Es ist der Anfang einer Sammlung von Wappen aus Franken, i.e. von Familien die aus Franken stammen oder dort lebten! Es sind bisher nur einige Wappen darin. Wer will, kann ein bmp, gif oder jpg (moeglichst mit Blasonierung und etwas Info) an wappenrolle(a)hotmail.com schicken. Dann wird das Wappen mit auf der Seite erscheinen. Es soll keine Konkurrenz zum Siebmacher F von E. Schoeler fuer Franken sein!!!! Sondern vielmehr eine Ergaenzung. Es gibt soooo viele Wappen in Franken, die nirgens registgistriert sind. Vielleicht schaffen wir es so, eine Sammlung zu erstellen, die als Nachschlagwerk dienen kann!
Was haltet Ihr davon!? Ciao Bernd ------------------------------------------------------------ Don't forget to check sometimes the Genealogy pages: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/0.html Special researches: Freibott Family http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/1.html Limpert Family http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/4.html Index of family names: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/surnames.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 2000/08/22 15:46:56
From: Gisela H. Bach <gbach(a)arrix.com>
-----Original Message----- From: franken-l-admin(a)genealogy.net [mailto:franken-l-admin(a)genealogy.net] Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 6:02 AM To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net Subject: Franken-L digest, Vol 1 #82 - 1 msg Hallo Bernd, eine Sammlung von Familienwappen aus Franken, wäre sehr angebracht. Ich suche das Familienwappen der Familie Bach aus Gunzenhausen/MFR. Es ist eine Beschreibung, Farben und eine Zeichnung des Wappens vorhanden. Da ich keinen Zugriff zu den Siebenmacher und Schoeler Nachschlagewerken hier in Canada habe, muss ich bis zu meinem nächsten Besuch in Deutschland warten. cheers Gisela Message: 1 To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:03:08 GMT Subject: Re: [FR] Bopp und Wappen in Franken! From: "Bernd Freibott" <freibott(a)hotmail.com> Reply-To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net Hallo, es gibt eine neue Webpage: http://www.geocities.com/wappenrolle/ Es ist der Anfang einer Sammlung von Wappen aus Franken, i.e. von Familien die aus Franken stammen oder dort lebten! Es sind bisher nur einige Wappen darin. Wer will, kann ein bmp, gif oder jpg (moeglichst mit Blasonierung und etwas Info) an wappenrolle(a)hotmail.com schicken. Dann wird das Wappen mit auf der Seite erscheinen. Es soll keine Konkurrenz zum Siebmacher F von E. Schoeler fuer Franken sein!!!! Sondern vielmehr eine Ergaenzung. Es gibt soooo viele Wappen in Franken, die nirgens registgistriert sind. Vielleicht schaffen wir es so, eine Sammlung zu erstellen, die als Nachschlagwerk dienen kann! Was haltet Ihr davon!? Ciao Bernd
Date: 2000/08/22 23:09:44
From: Winfried Schoen <wima.schoen(a)t-online.de>
Hallo Willi Eisenhardt sowie Gudrun u.Helmut Rieger, ich bin gerade im Besitz des "Heimatbuches von Allmannweier" bei Lahr im Schwarzwald. In selbigem sind 37 Personen mit dem Namen Dürr verzeichnet. Und zwar von 1659 bis 1920. Interessiert? Mit freundlichen Grüssen Winfried Schön § Es gibt nichts, was es nicht gibt §
Date: 2000/08/23 01:03:24
From: Mary Lou Carr <lacarr(a)bellatlantic.net>
Hello,
I am interested in the Dürr name, also.
My gr. gr. gr grandmother:
Catherine Dürr (Wife of Michael Bentz)
born in Nöttingen Bailliage de Pforzheim, grand Duche de Bade
Daughter of Jacques Dürr and Catherine Zachmann
Might there be a connection of this Dürr family with the one you are researching/
Would appreciate any help.
Sincerely,
Mary Lou Carr
Winfried Schoen wrote:
> Hallo Willi Eisenhardt sowie Gudrun u.Helmut Rieger,
>
> ich bin gerade im Besitz des "Heimatbuches von Allmannweier" bei Lahr im Schwarzwald. In selbigem sind 37 Personen mit dem Namen Dürr verzeichnet. Und zwar von 1659 bis 1920.
> Interessiert?
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüssen
>
> Winfried Schön
> § Es gibt nichts, was es nicht gibt §
>
> _______________________________________________
> Franken-L mailing list
> Franken-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/08/23 05:19:49
From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca>
Excellent idea Bernd. Have you by chance found any coat of arms for the Familie Schott von Schottenstein. In the 1700's they resided at Schottenstein which is in Oberfranken, even though after that time they are listed in Thuringen and Wurttemberg. Elsa Kahler Bernd Freibott wrote: > Hallo, > es gibt eine neue Webpage: > > http://www.geocities.com/wappenrolle/ > > Es ist der Anfang einer Sammlung von Wappen aus Franken, i.e. von Familien > die aus Franken stammen oder dort lebten! Es sind bisher nur einige Wappen > darin. Wer will, kann ein bmp, gif oder jpg (moeglichst mit Blasonierung und > etwas Info) an wappenrolle(a)hotmail.com schicken. Dann wird das Wappen mit > auf der Seite erscheinen. Es soll keine Konkurrenz zum Siebmacher F von E. > Schoeler fuer Franken sein!!!! Sondern vielmehr eine Ergaenzung. Es gibt > soooo viele Wappen in Franken, die nirgens registgistriert sind. Vielleicht > schaffen wir es so, eine Sammlung zu erstellen, die als Nachschlagwerk > dienen kann! > Was haltet Ihr davon!? > Ciao > Bernd > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Don't forget to check sometimes the Genealogy pages: > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/0.html > Special researches: > Freibott Family > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/1.html > Limpert Family > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/4.html > Index of family names: > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/surnames.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/08/23 09:52:24
From: Bernd Freibott <freibott(a)hotmail.com>
Excellent idea Bernd. Have you by chance found any coat of arms for the Familie Schott von Schottenstein. In the 1700's they resided at Schottenstein which is in Oberfranken, even though after that time they are listed in Thuringen andWurttemberg. Elsa Kahler Bernd Freibott wrote: > Hallo, > es gibt eine neue Webpage: > > http://www.geocities.com/wappenrolle/ >> Es ist der Anfang einer Sammlung von Wappen aus Franken, i.e. von Familien > die aus Franken stammen oder dort lebten! Es sind bisher nur einige Wappen > darin. Wer will, kann ein bmp, gif oder jpg (moeglichst mit Blasonierung und > etwas Info) an wappenrolle(a)hotmail.com schicken. Dann wird das Wappen mit > auf der Seite erscheinen. Es soll keine Konkurrenz zum Siebmacher F von E.> Schoeler fuer Franken sein!!!! Sondern vielmehr eine Ergaenzung. Es gibt> soooo viele Wappen in Franken, die nirgens registgistriert sind. Vielleicht> schaffen wir es so, eine Sammlung zu erstellen, die als Nachschlagwerk > dienen kann! > Was haltet Ihr davon!? > Ciao > Bernd > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Don't forget to check sometimes the Genealogy pages: > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/0.html > Special researches: > Freibott Family > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/1.html > Limpert Family > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/4.html > Index of family names: > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/surnames.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l _______________________________________________ Franken-L mailing list Franken-L(a)genealogy.net http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 2000/08/23 13:16:35
From: Peter Kernwein <Peter.Kernwein(a)t-online.de>
Hallo Bernd, kannst Du bitte mal im Siebmacher F schauen, ob der Name KERNWEIN auftaucht? Ich habe eine Notiz bei meinen Forschungen vorgefunden, dass seit 1759 ein im Siebmacher verzeichnetes Wappen vorhanden sein soll! Besten Dank! Peter
Date: 2000/08/23 13:26:20
From: Bernd Freibott <freibott(a)hotmail.com>
From: Peter.Kernwein(a)t-online.de (Peter Kernwein) Reply-To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net Subject: [FR] Wappen in Franken Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:28:06 +0200 Hallo Bernd, kannst Du bitte mal im Siebmacher F schauen, ob der Name KERNWEIN auftaucht? Ich habe eine Notiz bei meinen Forschungen vorgefunden, dass seit 1759 ein im Siebmacher verzeichnetes Wappen vorhanden sein soll! Besten Dank! Peter
Hallo Peter,ich bekomme in den naechsten Tagen erst die neueste Auflage des Siebmacher F... dann werde ich Dir bescheid geben! Aus welcher Gegend stammt Kernwein?
Ciao Bernd ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 2000/08/23 19:54:18
From: Winfried Schoen <wima.schoen(a)t-online.de>
>Message: 2
>Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 18:51:59 -0400
>Reply-To: lacarr(a)bellatlantic.net
>To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net
>Subject: Re: [FR] Duerr
>From: Mary Lou Carr <lacarr(a)bellatlantic.net>
>Reply-To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net
>Hello,
>I am interested in the Dürr name, also.
> My gr. gr. gr grandmother:
>Catherine Dürr (Wife of Michael Bentz)
> born in Nöttingen Bailliage de Pforzheim, grand Duche de Bade
> Daughter of Jacques Dürr and Catherine Zachmann
> Might there be a connection of this Dürr family with the one you are researching/
>Would appreciate any help.
> Sincerely,
>Mary Lou Carr
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hallo Mary Lou Carr,
leider kann ich nur englisch lesen aber nicht schreiben.
Die oben gesuchten Namen habe ich nicht gefunden, aber vielleicht interessiert Sie folgendes:
380 oo 26.07.1820 in Allmannsweier
Dürr Jakob
<<Sohn d.Jacob D., Bürger, Bauer in Nöttingen bei Pforzheim u.d. Christina geb. Mößmer>> * 25.03.1887 in Nöttingen bei Pforzheim; + 08.01.1853 in Allmannsweier
" war mit der Garde in Paris/Frankreich eingezogen", "Mann von ungeheurer Körperkraft; man legte ihm auf jede Schulter einen Doppelzentner Frucht und einen Sack noch hinten quer; er trug dies über einen Platz."
Brosamer (Brosmer), Anna Maria
* 04.02.1790 in Allmannsweier
Kinder: 6
Mit dreundlichen Grüssen
Winfried
§ Es gibt nichts, was es nicht gibt §
Date: 2000/08/23 21:14:51
From: Winfried Schoen <wima.schoen(a)t-online.de>
> Sehr geehrter Herr Schoen,
> der Name Allmanweier kommt mir sehr bekannt vor (ich bin im Dienst und habe
> keine Unterlagen zur Hand). Ich meine es gibt dort eine Familie von
> oder die Waldner von Freundstein. Diese sind Nachkommen der
> Familie Stumm, der seit langen Jahren mein Hauptaugenmerk gilt (Bisher ca.
> 10.000 Nachkommen gesammelt). An Nachrichten zu den Familien waere ich
> interessiert.
> Falls es Bilder von den Personen oder den Besitzungen gibt, waere ich an
> Fotokopien interessiert.
> Kostenerstattung selbstverstaendlich.
> Mit freundlichen Gruessen
> Albrecht W. Bolz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hallo Herr Bolz,
es folgt erste Fortsetzung Waldner von Freundstein:
2109 oo 03.01.1782 in Nordheim
Waldner von Freundstein, Gottfried
<<S.d. Freiherr (1783 : Graf) Franz Ludwig W. von F., Herrn zu Schmieheim,
Allmannsweier, Schweighausen, Berolzweiler u.Beerweiler (1783: auch zu Ollweiler), Ritter des hohen Johanniter-Ordens und des königl. französ. milit.
Meriten-Ordens, königlich französischer Obrist der Kavallerie und Infanterie;
Dirctorial-Präsident der unmittelbaren freien Reichsritterschaft in der Ortenau
u.d. Freifrau Wilhelmina Augusta Eleonora Sophia geb. von Berckheim, letztere
+ 04.09.1857 in Baldenheim/Unterelsass.>>
* 26.02.1757 in Schweighausen/Oberelsass; + 04.10.1818 in Ollweiler/Ober- elsass Verkündigung in Schmieheim am 06.01.1782 Ritter in dem hohen
Johanniter-Orden in der Balley Brandenburg." (1783: Ritter des kaiserlichen
Joseph-Ordens und Burgmann zu Freidberg).
Marschalck von Ostheim, Wilhelmina Charlotta Anna Christina
T.d. Freiherrn Johann Friederich Phillipp M. von O., Marschall des kaiserl. hohen
Stifts zu Bamberg und Erb-Herr auf Waltershausen, Althausen, Harrles, Trabeldorf und Danckenfeld; wirklicher Rat der kaiserl.-römischen Majestät,
kurpfälzischer und hochfürstlich bambergischer Geheimer Rat und Kammerherr;
Ritterrat Löblichen fränkischen Reichsritterorts am Steigerwald, + 28.10.1768 in
Waltershausen, u.d. Freifrau Wilhelmina Rosina geb. vom Stein aus dem Hause
Nordheim, + 23.04.1769 in Waltershausen>>
* ?? ; + 06.01.1783 in Schweighausen/Oberelsass, Freifräulein
( Das Paar wurde am 06.01.1782 " allhier auf hohen obrigkeitl.Befehl und
Erlaubnis für ein und allemal öffentlich proclamiert").
2.Fortsetzung folgt: ---bitte teilen Sie mir mit, ob ich auf dem richtigen Weg bin??
Mit freundlichen Grüssen
Winfried Schön
§ Es gibt nichts, was es nicht gibt §
Date: 2000/08/24 00:34:27
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Everyone: Finally got FOKO to work. Thank you all for replying.Just received some information on FOKO that I don't quite understand. I was hoping someone could help.
While researching people that are interested in the town of Obereisenheim, Unterfranken I received the following information:
Name: GFF (Mappe 0454) - AL RUSAM-KAEPPEL Adresse: Archivstr. 17, Nürnberg What is (Mappe 0454) - AL RUSAM-KAEPPEL? Best Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/08/24 02:36:33
From: REBARTH <REBARTH(a)aol.com>
In a message dated 08/23/2000 5:25:57 PM Central Daylight Time, insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca writes: << Hi Everyone: Finally got FOKO to work. Thank you all for replying. Just received some information on FOKO that I don't quite understand. I was hoping someone could help. While researching people that are interested in the town of Obereisenheim, Unterfranken I received the following information: Name: GFF (Mappe 0454) - AL RUSAM-KAEPPEL Adresse: Archivstr. 17, Nürnberg What is (Mappe 0454) - AL RUSAM-KAEPPEL? Best Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada >> Mappe 0454 means folder number 454. Actually these are usually loose-leaf books on file in the GFF library. AL (Ahnenliste) means ancestor list. Ruhsam-Kaeppel are the surnames of the researchers (Ruhsam wrote several books also). Good Luck, Roland Barth Bellevue Nebraska
Date: 2000/08/24 06:42:48
From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca>
No, I don't have any information that a CoA existed for them, but I do know that Hans Schott von Schottenstein, who lived between the 16 and 17 hundreds was a :Ritter des Goldenes Sporens", a phrase used by one of the Professors at the Erlangen University who is researching this particular group of knights and courtly on-hangers. My thought is that if he was a knight, quite possibly the family did possess a coat of arms. Any infor would be greatly appreciated. My mother was a Schott and her family always swore that we descended from a "black sheep" member of the Oberfranken von Schottenstein Familie, although I am still far from proving any kind of connection. My Schott's lived in Erlangen which was my town of birth. Any info would be appreciated. Elsa Kahler Elsa Kahler Bernd Freibott wrote: > Not yet, but I will get in the next days the Siebmacher F from Eugen > Schoeler... I'll check then! Are you having Infos about a CoA? > > > >Excellent idea Bernd. Have you by chance found any coat of arms for the > >Familie > >Schott von Schottenstein. In the 1700's they resided at Schottenstein > >which is > >in Oberfranken, even though after that time they are listed in Thuringen > >and > >Wurttemberg. > > > >Elsa Kahler > > > > > >Bernd Freibott wrote: > > > > > Hallo, > > > es gibt eine neue Webpage: > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/wappenrolle/ > > > > > > Es ist der Anfang einer Sammlung von Wappen aus Franken, i.e. von > >Familien > > > die aus Franken stammen oder dort lebten! Es sind bisher nur einige > >Wappen > > > darin. Wer will, kann ein bmp, gif oder jpg (moeglichst mit Blasonierung > >und > > > etwas Info) an wappenrolle(a)hotmail.com schicken. Dann wird das Wappen > >mit > > > auf der Seite erscheinen. Es soll keine Konkurrenz zum Siebmacher F von > >E. > > > Schoeler fuer Franken sein!!!! Sondern vielmehr eine Ergaenzung. Es gibt > > > soooo viele Wappen in Franken, die nirgens registgistriert sind. > >Vielleicht > > > schaffen wir es so, eine Sammlung zu erstellen, die als Nachschlagwerk > > > dienen kann! > > > Was haltet Ihr davon!? > > > Ciao > > > Bernd > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Don't forget to check sometimes the Genealogy pages: > > > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/0.html > > > Special researches: > > > Freibott Family > > > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/1.html > > > Limpert Family > > > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/4.html > > > Index of family names: > > > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/surnames.htm > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Franken-L mailing list > > > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Franken-L mailing list > >Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > >http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/08/24 11:04:16
From: Dr. Antje Kronenberg <kronenberg_antje(a)yahoo.de>
Liebe Listenteilnehmer, kann mir jemand sagen, wo ich eine historische Karte von Franken, etwa 18. oder 19. Jahrhundert, möglichst detailliert, bekommen kann? Danke! Beste Grüße, Antje Kronenberg __________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de Yahoo! Mail auf Ihrem Handy? - http://mobil.yahoo.de
Date: 2000/08/24 14:45:14
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
At 11:04 24.08.00 +0200, you wrote: ------------------------- > Liebe Listenteilnehmer, > > kann mir jemand sagen, wo ich eine historische Karte von > Franken, etwa 18. oder 19. Jahrhundert, möglichst > detailliert, bekommen kann? Danke! > > Beste Grüße, > > Antje Kronenberg > Ich habe diese site "gebookmarked": http://www.library.wisc.edu/etext/ravenstein Deutsches Reich (d.h. ganz Deutschland), ca. 1880, in 2 MB-Teilen zum runterladen. Viel Spaß! Stefan Probst
Date: 2000/08/24 17:20:00
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Roland: Thanks for the information on Mappe 0454.Can you tell me if this information would be assessable to non members? Or is it just for members?
Thank You. Best Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/08/24 18:22:54
From: REBARTH <REBARTH(a)aol.com>
In a message dated 08/24/2000 3:55:40 AM Central Daylight Time, kronenberg_antje(a)yahoo.de writes: << Liebe Listenteilnehmer, kann mir jemand sagen, wo ich eine historische Karte von Franken, etwa 18. oder 19. Jahrhundert, möglichst detailliert, bekommen kann? Danke! Beste Grüße, Antje Kronenberg >> Siehe folgende Website: www.geodaten.bayern.de (Bayerische Vermessungsverwaltung) Gruss Roland
Date: 2000/08/27 01:48:01
From: Rolf Nowak <Rolf(a)Nowak.net>
Liebe Forscherkollegen,
Mitte September wird von Klaus Kunze aus Fürstenhagen ein neues
Ortssippenbuch erscheinen "Glasmacher-Sippenbuch", gleichzeitig integriert
die Auswertung des Kirchenbuches Bursfelde, nebst Glashütte von 1653-1820.
Klaus Kunze, der bereits die Ortssippenbücher Fürstenhagen, Heisebeck mit
Arenborn sowie die Ortschroniken von Fürstenhagen und dem Ort Klein Ellguth
in Schlesien erstellt hat, hat mit diesem neuen Ortssippenbuch ein wichtiges
Werk für jeden Forscher zusammengestellt, der Glasmacherfamilien in seiner
Ahnenliste hat.
Weiterführende Hinweise zu diesem Buch unter:
http://ahnenforschung.net/shop/heikun
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Rolf Nowak
****************************************************************************
++++ Aktuell ++++
"Ahnenforschung-online für Dummies".
Das Buch für jeden Internet-Genealogen
Mehr unter http://www.ahnenforschung.net/shop/gens
****************************************************************************
*
Team Ahnenforschung.net
http://ahnenforschung.net
Genealogie-Service.de GbR: http://www.genealogie-service.de
http://genealogie-shop.de
Genealogische Forschungsstelle Uslar http://familienforschung.com
****************************************************************************
Date: 2000/08/27 18:33:50
From: Peter Kernwein <Peter.Kernwein(a)t-online.de>
Hallo,
ich suche den Namen ROMEIS in Würzburg.
Konkret: Anna Josepha ROMEIS, gelebt um 1760
und deren Eltern.
MfG
Peter Kernwein
Date: 2000/08/27 21:23:58
From: Peter Kernwein <Peter.Kernwein(a)t-online.de>
Hallo, ich suche dringend Daten zu den folgenden Namen aus (Markt) Seinsheim: KERNWEIN KORN NUSSMANN MAYER u.a. Leider sind sie Kirchenbücher im letzten Krieg verbrannt. Nach Aussage des Archivs des Erzbistums Bamberg sind nur noch die Geburten von 1836 bis 1843 vorhanden. Ich suche jedoch Daten zu den o.g. Namen von VOR 1820! Jede kleine Information ist willkommen! MfG Peter Kernwein
Date: 2000/08/27 22:13:51
From: Peter Kernwein <Peter.Kernwein(a)t-online.de>
Hallo, hat jemand Unterlagen, Literatur oder Infos über das Münzwesen in Franken, besonders Unterfranken der Zeit ab ca 1600? MfG Peter Kernwein
Date: 2000/08/28 01:11:13
From: Pete Probst <peteprobst(a)rmplc.co.uk>
Hello Church records are being copied and held on microfiche in Regensburg for the Mittle Franken area. Has any body information on: Where they are held? How do you access them? Pete Probst
Date: 2000/08/28 01:52:58
From: REBARTH <REBARTH(a)aol.com>
Check out the site: www.gf-franken.de (also in English). It lists the two church book archives in Regensburg (Lutheran and Catholic). They repond to letter requests (in German), or you can hire someone to do the work there for you. Good luck Roland Barth
Date: 2000/08/28 09:52:05
From: Holger Zinn <holgerzinn(a)web.de>
Franken-L(a)genealogy.net schrieb am 28.08.00: > Hello > Church records are being copied and held on microfiche in Regensburg for the > Mittle Franken area. Has any body information on: Where they are held? How > do you access them? > Pete Probst Just have a look at: http://home.t-online.de/home/LKANuernberg/lkantit.htm. Holger Zinn > > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l ############################################################################# Holger Zinn Ockershäuser Allee 26 35037 Marburg Fon: +49 / 172 / 8128398 (mobilfon) Fax: +49 / +180 / 505254 - 923491 (freemail-fax-service) visit my web-page: http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~zinn ############################################################################# _______________________________________________________________________ 1.000.000 DM gewinnen - kostenlos tippen - http://millionenklick.web.de IhrName(a)web.de, 8MB Speicher, Verschluesselung - http://freemail.web.de
Date: 2000/08/28 16:31:17
From: BrendReed <BrendReed(a)aol.com>
In a message dated 8/28/00 12:43:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, holgerzinn(a)web.de writes: << http://home.t-online.de/home/LKANuernberg/lkantit.htm. >> Please check to see if this is a correct web address as I could not pull up the Regensberg records from there. Thanks. Brenda Reed
Date: 2000/08/28 18:24:34
From: Holger Zinn <holgerzinn(a)web.de>
Franken-L(a)genealogy.net schrieb am 28.08.00: > In a message dated 8/28/00 12:43:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > holgerzinn(a)web.de writes: > > << http://home.t-online.de/home/LKANuernberg/lkantit.htm. > >> > Please check to see if this is a correct web address as I could not pull up > the Regensberg records from there. Thanks. > Brenda Reed Hi Brenda, the link is indeed correct. The information in on the Regensburg records is exactly on: http://home.t-online.de/home/LKANuernberg/kibureg.htm. The site can be reached withour problems from the main site of Landeskirchliche Archiv Nuernberg. Regards Holger Zinn ############################################################################# Holger Zinn Ockershäuser Allee 26 35037 Marburg Fon: +49 / 172 / 8128398 (mobilfon) Fax: +49 / +180 / 505254 - 923491 (freemail-fax-service) visit my web-page: http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~zinn ############################################################################# _______________________________________________________________________ 1.000.000 DM gewinnen - kostenlos tippen - http://millionenklick.web.de IhrName(a)web.de, 8MB Speicher, Verschluesselung - http://freemail.web.de
Date: 2000/08/29 02:46:23
From: BrendReed <BrendReed(a)aol.com>
In a message dated 8/28/00 9:16:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, holgerzinn(a)web.de writes: << The information in on the Regensburg records is exactly on: http://home.t-online.de/home/LKANuernberg/kibureg.htm. The site can be reached withour problems from the main site of Landeskirchliche Archiv Nuernberg. >> I could not get into the site at the above address. What is the main site address for Landeskirchliche Archiv Nuemberg? Thank you. B. Reed
Date: 2000/08/29 09:55:17
From: Holger Zinn <holgerzinn(a)web.de>
Franken-L(a)genealogy.net schrieb am 29.08.00: > In a message dated 8/28/00 9:16:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > holgerzinn(a)web.de writes: > > << The information in on the Regensburg records is exactly on: > http://home.t-online.de/home/LKANuernberg/kibureg.htm. The site can be > reached withour problems from the main site of Landeskirchliche Archiv > Nuernberg. >> > > I could not get into the site at the above address. What is the main site > address for Landeskirchliche Archiv Nuemberg? Main LKA Nuernberg site: http://home.t-online.de/home/LKANuernberg/lkantit.htm The link might look strang, but insist that it leads you to where you want to go. Holger ############################################################################# Holger Zinn Ockershäuser Allee 26 35037 Marburg Fon: +49 / 172 / 8128398 (mobilfon) Fax: +49 / +180 / 505254 - 923491 (freemail-fax-service) visit my web-page: http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~zinn ############################################################################# _______________________________________________________________________ 1.000.000 DM gewinnen - kostenlos tippen - http://millionenklick.web.de IhrName(a)web.de, 8MB Speicher, Verschluesselung - http://freemail.web.de
Date: 2000/08/29 11:32:29
From: Monika Pertsch <pertsch(a)uni-bonn.de>
Über Unterfranken kenne ich keins, aber über das Geldwesen in der Markgrafschaft Kulmbach-Bayreuth, also in Oberfranken, gibt es ein gutes Buch: Wilhelm Fickert, Geldwesen, Kaufkraft und Maßeinheiten im Bereich des Fürstentums Kulmbach-Bayreuth, Freie Schriftenfolge der Gesellschaft für Familienforschung in Franken, Band 21, Nürnberg, 1989, Gesamtherstellung: Verlagsdruckerei Schmidt GmbH, Neustadt a.d. Aisch Viele Grüße Monika Pertsch pertsch(a)uni-bonn.de Peter Kernwein wrote: > Hallo, > > hat jemand Unterlagen, Literatur oder Infos über das Münzwesen in > Franken, besonders Unterfranken der Zeit ab ca 1600? > > MfG > Peter Kernwein > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/08/29 12:01:41
From: Bernd Freibott <freibott(a)hotmail.com>
Ciao Bernd
From: Monika Pertsch <pertsch(a)uni-bonn.de> Reply-To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net, Peter Kernwein <Peter.Kernwein(a)t-online.de> Subject: Re: [FR] Muenzwesen in Franken Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:32:06 +0200 Über Unterfranken kenne ich keins, aber über das Geldwesen in der Markgrafschaft Kulmbach-Bayreuth, also in Oberfranken, gibt es ein gutes Buch: Wilhelm Fickert, Geldwesen, Kaufkraft und Maßeinheiten im Bereich des Fürstentums Kulmbach-Bayreuth, Freie Schriftenfolge der Gesellschaft für Familienforschung in Franken, Band 21, Nürnberg, 1989, Gesamtherstellung: Verlagsdruckerei Schmidt GmbH, Neustadt a.d. Aisch Viele Grüße Monika Pertsch pertsch(a)uni-bonn.de Peter Kernwein wrote: > Hallo, > > hat jemand Unterlagen, Literatur oder Infos über das Münzwesen in > Franken, besonders Unterfranken der Zeit ab ca 1600? > > MfG > Peter Kernwein > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l _______________________________________________ Franken-L mailing list Franken-L(a)genealogy.net http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
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Date: 2000/08/29 19:17:36
From: Pete Probst <peteprobst(a)rmplc.co.uk>
Holger Thanks for the web site. Connected straight away and found the page and information I need. Thank You Pete Probst
Date: 2000/08/30 20:38:17
From: Willi Diener <willidiener(a)freenet.de>
wer kann mir bei diesen Handschriftlichen Aufzeichnungen bei weitere Daten helfen 1 Tobias Popp *: Unbekannt d: 1591 in Langenberg 2 Johann Popp *: 1568 in Langenberg d: Unbekannt 3 Georg Popp *: 28 11 1599 in Langenberg d: Unbekannt 4 Philipp Ernst Popp *: 19 7 1627 in Langenberg d: Unbekannt 5 Johann Phillipp Popp *: 4 5 1655 in Liebelsdorf bei Langenberg d: Unbekannt 6 Johann Leonhard Popp *: 17 10 1681 in Rothenburg ob der Tauber d: Unbekannt 7 Johann Caspar Popp *: 3 9 1705 in Uffenheim d: Unbekannt 8 Johann Leonhard Popp *: 9 2 1747 in Uffenheim d: 3 11 1830 in Gollhofen & Anna Margaretha Böhm *: 5 10 1747 in Creglingen d: 11 6 1826 in Gollhofen 9 Georg Wendel Popp *: 22 10 1781 in Gollhofen d: 3 6 1846 in Gollhofen & Maria Magdalena Dietmaier *: 11 6 1796 in Markt Einersheim d: 19 1 1846 in Gollhofen 10 Johann Leonhard Popp *: 9 5 1828 in Gollhofen d: 29 9 1871 in Gollhofen & Anna Margaretta Geißendörfer *: 7 8 1835 in Kleinharbach bei Uffenheim d: 18 4 1875 in Gollhofen 11 Michael Popp *: 12 8 1865 in Gollhofen d: Unbekannt & Babette Stahl *: Unbekannt *: 1943 in Würzburg 12 Georg Popp *: 7 6 1890 in Würzburg d: 20 6 1974 in Volkersbrunn & Emma Bachmann *: 26 9 1887 d: 1 7 1940 in Volkersbrunn 13 Bettina Popp *: 1922 d: Unbekannt 13 Ida Popp *: 1924 d: Unbekannt 13 Sofie Popp *: 13 6 1926 in Volkersbrunn & Georg Nicolaus Emmerich *: 29 10 1919 in Oberbessenbach d: 4 4 1995 in Aschaffenburg *2nd Ehefrau of Georg Popp: & Karolina (Popp) *: Unbekannt d: Unbekannt 12 Betti Popp *: Unbekannt d: Unbekannt 12 Hans Popp *: Unbekannt 12 Gretel Popp *: Unbekannt 12 Luise Popp *: Unbekannt 7 Johann Samuel Popp *: 1709 in Uffenheim d: Unbekannt Gruß Willi
Date: 2009/07/05 22:30:54
From: Unknown <Unknown(a)>