Date: 2000/06/01 04:31:38
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 31 May 2000, at 15:19, LTBoehmke(a)aol.com wrote: > Hello, I just tried your address for Mediatized and was told that > address was not on geocities. Any ideas? I used it quite successfully. It was a VERY interesting read about the structure of nobility in the German Holy Roman Empire. Fred fred(a)compu.com
Date: 2000/06/01 05:52:52
From: Robert Rogner <robert.rogner(a)t-online.de>
meine Vorfahren stammen aus Mittelfranken (Gegend nördlich von Ansbach). Ich habe viele Informationen über die Rogners und einige hartnäckige Lücken. An einem Gedankenaustausch mit anderen Rogner-Forschern wäre ich sehr interessiert. Gruß Robert Rogner weitere Namen aus der Ahnenreihe: Burkhardt, Schändel, Gruber In der Oberpfalz interessiere ich mich für: Stauber, Gradl, Stubenvoll
Date: 2000/06/01 05:57:08
From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca>
I really must share my good fortune with the list. After playing cat and mouse in back-and-forth emails with the Standesamt in Erlangen, I taste a bit of success. I had received numerous excuses that they were unable to pinpoint my grandfather and was getting quite exasperated. I finally decided to let them know that their responses did not satisfy me, stated my arguments as to why I was unsatisfied, and begged their assistance in establishing, for forthcoming generations, a family history which would permit them to know of their German heritage. The clerk dutifully informed me that they has indeed been able to ascertain my grandfather's date of birth, date of marriage, and date of death, with the assistance of the "Einwohnermeldeamt" in Erlangen. I now am required to write a formal letter of request and submit the required fees for documentation. Hurrah! Some questions though: I was not aware that there was an "Einwohnermeldeamt" (believe the translation means a registration office where people register the fact that they are inhabitants of the town, or could it be a type of census registration?) and have not seen this term used by any of the lists to which I currently belong. Does anyone know what the function of this particular "Amt" is and is it a possible source for further genealogical research and if so, what type of information are they able to provide? Is this a common type of "Amt" to exist in any city or is it just common in certain regions? They discovered that my grandfather actually married in Furth, which is an urban area very close to Erlangen, and I am assuming that my grandmother came from there (family members have mentioned a remote connection to Furth).. Does anyone know if Furth has its own documentation centres or if Erlangen houses these? Has anyone had any experience in monetary exchange from Canadian dollar to German mark? What would be the best method of paying them in "Bargeld"? On a humorous note, it appears the clerk took exception to my describing Erlangen as a "not very large place". She hastened to inform me that it was a "Grossstadt mit 100,000 einwohner", which made research into records difficult. She is unaware that I grew up in and still work in Toronto (population well over a million). Perspective does influence thought, and I must watch any misconstrued condescension in further correspondence. A greater fluency in German would probably assist me in tactfully expressing thoughts. Elsa Kahler
Date: 2000/06/01 10:52:13
From: Bernd Freibott <freibott(a)hotmail.com>
Try again here: http://www.geocities.com/freibott_b/history/mediatisierunge.html
Hello, I just tried your address for Mediatized and was told that address wasnot on geocities. Any ideas? LaVerne ltboehmke(a)aol.com _______________________________________________ Franken-L mailing list Franken-L(a)genealogy.net http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
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Date: 2000/06/01 18:00:25
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 31 May 2000, at 23:54, Elsa Kahler wrote: > I really must share my good fortune with the list. After playing cat > and mouse in back-and-forth emails with the Standesamt in Erlangen, I > taste a bit of success. I had received numerous excuses that they were > unable to pinpoint my grandfather and was getting quite exasperated. > I finally decided to let them know that their responses did not > satisfy me, stated my arguments as to why I was unsatisfied, and > begged their assistance in establishing, for forthcoming generations, > a family history which would permit them to know of their German > heritage. The clerk dutifully informed me that they has indeed been > able to ascertain my grandfather's date of birth, date of marriage, > and date of death, with the assistance of the "Einwohnermeldeamt" in > Erlangen. I now am required to write a formal letter of request and > submit the required fees for documentation. Hurrah! Interesting perspective of German bureaucracy. German people don't particularly like to know it but they are still subjects of the state for their own protection or something like that. It comes with all the historical baggage and culture. It is not exactly of the people for the people but 'we (the bureaucrats, ie the state) will tell you what's good for you'. :-) It's all legal and no one really objects to the control from above simply because it's always been that way. To an American it is rather strange though to be forced to register with the police or the Einwohnermeldeamt every time you move. They want to know exactly where everyone is at any one time and the whole process is computerized down the Nth degree. Each community has a procedure for any new resident to register with them. Your records travel with you and this whole chain of events about your life is tracked by the state. It is precisely for the reason that data privacy is such a big issue in Germany. Since the government knows everything, the constitution or Grundgesetz assures its Bürgers that none of this data will ever be released to anyone. That is unless they have some legal right to see this data. Normally relations other then a direct lineage from parent to child and back are all that qualifies unless you can claim some exception to the rule. Basically this data privacy mania, as to government data collection, has invaded all of society and spread itself into every other sphere of life - often with no logical reason behind it. I mean what difference does it make where your grandfather's sister was baptized? Yet the churches often apply the same rules to their data as does the government. If you ask why they think it is the law. It is not in non-governmental situations. So, communities like Erlangen, which we might consider a larger beroom community in the burbs, have their own administrative overhead and of course their own Einwohnermeldeamt. They are everywhere. In Berlin, where I had to fight my own battles of many years to try to locate a lost cousin, they knew exactly where he was but would not tell me because of those laws. There they have many Einwohnermeldeämter - like one for each neighborhood and they are often right in the same building as the local police department. I too bounced around from Standesamt to Standesamt and from there to the Einwohnermeldeamt in different places. I got nowhere in a variety of mail communication and physically had to visit there with documentary evidence in hand that my cousin was like a brother to me having lived with my parents after his mom had died when he was baby. I had his school report cards, various other vital documents which I found in my mother's things. She had been unsuccessful in locating him and I saw it as my duty to do this for her after her death. I finally dropped the magic word in the place where I had been lead to by kind hearted souls who would not tell me anything definitive but gave me enough hints to continue my search. Anyway, the trick was to give them a reason, a legal out, to tell me where he lived. My mother had left him an inheritance was all they wanted to hear and the computers opened up like magic. They wouldn't give me his phone number, as that was still against data privacy but I did get his address and all I needed to do was walk out to the nearest phone booth and find him at that address. He had a very,very common name which is why I couldn't just go to the phone book directly myself. I really didn't even know if he was still alive as all this separation happened in 1949 when his father all of a sudden wouldn't let him go with us to America. The father remarried and Klaus grew up as a very sad little boy as he was more or less an orphan who was neglected by his new parents versus their other children. He left his home as soon as he was old enough around 16 years of age and then he started to look for us in Australia of all places. Somehow he thought we had gone there instead of America. When we met, he showed me all his unsuccessful searches. It was really sad as even the Red Cross was contacted by both parties without results. So, it's a long story but you can trust that the Einwohnermeldeamt would know everything but getting to this data is another matter. > They discovered that my grandfather actually married in Furth, which > is an urban area very close to Erlangen, and I am assuming that my > grandmother came from there (family members have mentioned a remote > connection to Furth).. Does anyone know if Furth has its own > documentation centres or if Erlangen houses these? Fürth would have its own. > Has anyone had any experience in monetary exchange from Canadian > dollar to German mark? What would be the best method of paying them > in "Bargeld"? They may accept a regular check. Otherwise send cash. Fred fred(a)compu.com
Date: 2000/06/01 20:48:38
From: LTBoehmke <LTBoehmke(a)aol.com>
It does happen in the USA. In Leonia, NJ in the 1950s I had the very strange experience of having the police check my family about a day after we moved in. My husband had just become the pastor of a church in town. Leonia is about one mile square just across the river from NYCity. In that small town, even though it is a part of a large metropolitan area, it must have been well known that a new pastor had come to town. But much to my surprise, there were the local police on my doorstep, asking all kinds of questions about me and my family. I wonder if that register is still part of that community. We lived there for three years only. I am happen to say that was my only experience like it. LaVerne ltboehmke(a)aol.com
Date: 2000/06/01 21:38:41
From: LTBoehmke <LTBoehmke(a)aol.com>
Thank you, I have now read it. My knowledge of German nobility is very small. No one in my family has ever claimed to be part of the nobility. But I do like to be historically accurate. So when my ggrandfather, Albert Pietschmann, born in Frankenhausen, came to the US about 1849 from Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt, that would have been the Principality of SR, and the head of that principality would have been a Prince, not a duke, or a count. Is that a correct statement? TIA LaVerne ltboehmke(a)aol.com
Date: 2000/06/02 01:51:46
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 1 Jun 2000, at 14:42, LTBoehmke(a)aol.com wrote: > It does happen in the USA. > In Leonia, NJ in the 1950s I had the very strange experience of having > the police check my family about a day after we moved in. It happens here but we think of it as a strange intrusion into our private lives where the government has no business. We sort of try to keep government at arms length for most of our lives and therefore aren't so overzealous about maintain our privacy in general. So what if we get junk mail, regular or electronic. We just trash it or read it as the mood strikes as. Europeans think differently. Genealogy is mostly done in safe territory over a hundreds years ago. Trying to find siblings who lived in the 20th century is almost impossible unless you already have them through family connections. I typically try to gather all ancestor siblings and their descendants but it's really tough over in the old country. Fred fred(a)compu.com
Date: 2000/06/02 01:51:55
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 1 Jun 2000, at 15:32, LTBoehmke(a)aol.com wrote: > Thank you, I have now read it. My knowledge of German nobility is > very small. No one in my family has ever claimed to be part of the > nobility. But I do like to be historically accurate. So when my > ggrandfather, Albert Pietschmann, born in Frankenhausen, came to the > US about 1849 from Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt, that would have been the > Principality of SR, and the head of that principality would have been > a Prince, not a duke, or a count. Your bringing up a difficult subject. The article you read gave you some idea as to the complexity of what was and what only looked like it was. Actually Schwarzburg-Frankenhausen was its own little country until in 1599 it became a fief under Schwarzburg- Rudolstadt but it still was separate just of a lower quality on the ladder of sovereignity. S-R itself continued to muddle on ontil 1920 when it finally became a part of the Land Thüringen. The male line did not die out until 1972. In German its ruler was known as a Fürst. The closest translation is probably Prince but there is no real equivilant as the rules of the game were different in each country. Basically you have it right though. :-) Fred fred(a)compu.com
Date: 2000/06/02 02:27:17
From: Brian Stern <BrianS(a)pbcomputing.com>
>> I really must share my good fortune with the list. After playing cat
>> and mouse in back-and-forth emails with the Standesamt in Erlangen, I
>> taste a bit of success. I had received numerous excuses that they were
>> unable to pinpoint my grandfather and was getting quite exasperated.
>> I finally decided to let them know that their responses did not
>> satisfy me, stated my arguments as to why I was unsatisfied, and
>> begged their assistance in establishing, for forthcoming generations,
>> a family history which would permit them to know of their German
>> heritage. The clerk dutifully informed me that they has indeed been
>> able to ascertain my grandfather's date of birth, date of marriage,
>> and date of death, with the assistance of the "Einwohnermeldeamt" in
>> Erlangen. I now am required to write a formal letter of request and
>> submit the required fees for documentation. Hurrah!
>
>Interesting perspective of German bureaucracy. German people
>don't particularly like to know it but they are still subjects of the
>state for their own protection or something like that. It comes with
>all the historical baggage and culture. It is not exactly of the people
>for the people but 'we (the bureaucrats, ie the state) will tell you
>what's good for you'. :-)
So is it likely that the Einwohnermeldeamt will have additional info to
what the Standesamt has? I sent a request for my great-grandmother's birth
record to the Standesamt in Kleinheubach, where she was born. I received a
reply that there was no record of her birth. Kleinheubach is a small town.
Is it likely that they have an Einwohnermeldeamt and that it migh have info
about her and her family?
________________________________________________________________
Brian Stern {8-{)} _________ BrianS(a)pbcomputing.com _________ Austin, TX
Searching: AUERBACH Touste, Ukr; HOCHMAN Touste, Ivano-frankovsk, Ukr;
ADLER, FISCH Zholkva, Ukr; STERN Bruchsal, Olnhausen, Laupheim,
Michelbach, Germany; BLOCH Eichtersheim Germany; EHRLICH Bieringen,
Edelfingen, Germany; GROSS Affaltrach, Germany; WUERZBERGER Bieringen,
Germany; KAUFMANN Laupheim Germany; SCHNAITACHER, OTTENSOSER, Fuerth,
Germany; LINDAU NYC, Greensboro, NC.
Date: 2000/06/02 07:16:44
From: Ingolf Vogel <vogeling(a)planet-interkom.de>
Einwohnermeldamts exist in almost every, even tiny village. In some areas,
specially in the former west, some rural villages have combined to something
called "Verbandsgemeinde", a group of four or five small villages which have
only one Einwohnermeldeamt.
I read Elsa Kahlers account of getting birth and marriage certificates at a
Standesamt, at which the clerk actually contacted the Einwohnermeldeamt BY
HIMSELF ?? Sounds increadible ! Usually the most you'll get is to ask there.
In fact the normal answer you'll get at any german office if they don't know
what to do is "Wir sind nicht zuständig" (We're not the competent office).
On second thought, you'll problably get the same answer if it's near lunch
break.
A few rules for sucess in dealing with any Standesamt or Einwohnermeldeamt :
- Avoid at all cost telling them that your searching for an ancestor or
relative as a matter of
hobby. They'll just ignore you as someone that's not important.
Tell them something about an inhertitance or unsepcified legal matter you
need the dates for.
- Avoid calling in around lunch time, or just before closing time. They will
simply tell you the
archive is already closed.
- Try to be aware of any documentation you might have to bring along. If
anything in necessary, it
will be the first thing asked for.
Privacy laws. ("Datenschutz"). The enemy of all genealogists. Normally all
data after 1875 is not
public, and can't be viewed. Anything younger than 100-110 years after
birth, and 70 years after death can't be looked at. But if you are a
decedant of that person, or tell them you need the data for inheritance
matters ("Erbschaftsangelegenheiten") you should gain access.
The point of the privacy laws is to protect your personal data from
companies, that - if data was all to easly accesible - would use it for
commercial purposes. Even your I-want-to-know-everything-about-you neighbour
might have an interest whether your wife was really an illegitimate child as
Mrs. So-and-so told him yesterday. Haveing said that, there's no question
that clerks frequently you over the top with the protection.
With all of that, it is fairly difficult if not impossible, to locate
distant cousins, if you don`t know their adress. But then again, there are
many people which may not want to be located by others.
The nice thing about Datenschutz is also, that even the state cannot get all
the information on you it may want. Different branches and offices are only
allowed to exchange data on you, if there is a legal basis for the enquiry.
That fact comes in ahndy for many people, when they evade taxes and send
their money to Luxemburg and Switzeland. The Bundeskriminalamt (Federal
Bureau of Criminal Investiation), fighting money laundering, could probably
use much of the information to catch tax evaders, but insn't allowed to pass
on information to the tax inverstgation office.
Churches in Germany are something somewhere in between goverment offices and
private institutions. There called "Körperschaft des öffentlichen Rechts",
which means something like "Body of public law". Churches have the right to
collect taxes, and do so. They don't have to pay taxes themselves, but on
the other hand have to provide a number of public services, such as
hospitals etc. It may seems strange to Americans that church and state are
so intertwined, but look at England, where the Queen is head of state and
church, and bishops are members of parliament !
On the matter of registering with the police; it's something common
throughout Europe (with the notable exeption of England). Good old Napoleon
introduced it when he occupied half of Europe and it's been here ever since.
As a consequence, most Europeans have to carry an identification card at all
times. But since you need some form of identification anyway, for cheques
etc, there is no great harm in it.
Having said all that, I might add that bureaucracy is not altogether unknown
in the US and Canada. Having lived there for quited sometime, I could tell
quite some tales. Not to talk about social security numbers and the fact
that I have no idea how people without a driver's licence survive.
Maybe one small tale from the US-Canadian border. Last summer I visited
Niagara Falls. Suddenly I had the bizarre idea to look at the falls from the
Canadian side. Ha ! Hadn't reckoned with Canadian and US Border Police. The
Canadians wouldn't believe me, that as of two years ago, a visa is no longer
necessary for german nationals to enter the US. Apparently there's a
bureaucratic order telling Canadian border guards to take all aliens (these
Europeans could as well be from mars) without US visas as potential
immigrants. As if I was about to immigrate to Canada with no luggage at all
! So they wouldn't let me in and sent me back to the US side. Now, the US
border guard told me, that she couldn't let me into the US since I hadn't
left it, since I hadn't been admitted to Canada ! (Logical isn't it !) I
told them to give me a letter or a note telling the Canadian of the new
statutes for entering the USA. They said they were not allowed to talk to
each other ! So no entry into the US without entry to Canada, and no entry
to Canada without a visa I didn't need. So I went back to the Canadian side.
Different officer, same story. Envisaging the rest of my life in
no-man's-land on the bridge, in a last ditch attempt, I asked her to get her
boss. The man finally - after 2 hours of back and forth between the US and
Canada - in an act of mercy admitted me to Canada. I got back to the US by a
different border post with no problems at all.
On the matter of Kleinheubach, if your great-grandmother was born after
1875, and is not included in the birth register at the Standesamt, she in
most likely not born there. The Einwohnermeldeamt might have information on
her original registration, which ususaly includes the place of former
residence, although I do not know when such registers were started in
Bavaria.
Ingolf
----- Original Message -----
.......
>> Interesting perspective of German bureaucracy. German people
> >don't particularly like to know it but they are still subjects of the
> >state for their own protection or something like that. It comes with
> >all the historical baggage and culture. It is not exactly of the people
> >for the people but 'we (the bureaucrats, ie the state) will tell you
> >what's good for you'. :-)
>
> So is it likely that the Einwohnermeldeamt will have additional info to
> what the Standesamt has? I sent a request for my great-grandmother's
birth
> record to the Standesamt in Kleinheubach, where she was born. I received
a
> reply that there was no record of her birth. Kleinheubach is a small
town.
> Is it likely that they have an Einwohnermeldeamt and that it migh have
info
> about her and her family?
Date: 2000/06/03 04:30:59
From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca>
Thank you all for your informative replies. I particularly enjoyed Ingolf's story about no-man's land. It appears that there are cross-cultural similarities amongst bureaucrats. I've had my share of experiences with Canadian Civil Servants, but the difference is that I am able to argue with them more efficiently and get results after one conversation instead of mailing off numerous emails that were tediously written with "Deutsches Woerterbuch in hand". I, too, was pleasantly surprised by the last response and the initiative taken by the clerk to contact another government department for information. I am quite grateful, especially since I am now aware of some of the legal practices with respect to information and privacy issues in Germany. She took this step quite of her own accord. After re-reading my last message to her, I am even more surprised for the good nature of her endeavours. Like most people who communicate in a language that does nto easily roll off their tongues, I was rather blunt, starting off with "Ich bin nicht damit zufrieden." I don't know what convinced her because I had previously received all the excuses mentioned in Ingolf's message. I reasoned with her that Erlangen was not a big place so it could not be difficult to find these records. I also stated that there were few Schott's there now, so how could there have been many around 1890 and certainly there was no need to pinpoint because there was probably not more than one Emil. I then evoked the personage of an old school friend of my mother's. I had the good fortune of finding her telephone number and the added good fortune of her still being alive to receive my telephone call. Besides being entertained by her denouncement of the Erlangen Burgermeister as a "debbede Hund" and her admonitions that the world would come to ruin because of its adulation of the devil's work, the computer, she advised me that she had worked for the Stadt for 42 years and that it was not difficult to find the information I wanted. The schoolfriend said she would make enquiries for me as did Herbert Stoyan, who hosts a wonderful website. Perhaps all of these events combined to get me the desired result. Ingolf provided a wonderfully detailed description of the workings of the "Einwohnermeldeamt" and the workings of municipalities. I am most grateful for this. I am now left with the dilemma of getting up the audacity to start the process all over again, this time for my great-grandfather. Thanks again, Elsa
Date: 2000/06/03 05:09:28
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
At 22:29 02.06.00 -0400, Elsa wrote: ------------------------- > I also stated that there were few Schott's there now, so how > could there have been many around 1890 Hi, any Schott's in Stadtsteinach or Kronach? This is the area where mine come from. Cheers, Stefan
Date: 2000/06/03 06:18:56
From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca>
Stefan Probst wrote: > At 22:29 02.06.00 -0400, Elsa wrote: > ------------------------- > > I also stated that there were few Schott's there now, so how > > could there have been many around 1890 > > Hi, > > any Schott's in Stadtsteinach or Kronach? > This is the area where mine come from. > > Cheers, > Stefan > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l Hi Stefan: At this point, I don't know if any of my Schott's are from the areas you mentioned. Besides Emil, my grandfather, I only have his father's name which is Andreas Schott married to a Wilhelmine Ruff. I believe that Andreas (not to be confused with Emil's son, Andreas) might have lived in Erlangen, but was not necessarily born there. I have a vague recollection of my mother mentioning a Wurttemberg connection somewhere in the family. Andreas must have died fairly young because his wife remarried (don't know who) a man who owned a furniture shop in Erlangen. The only other family story about our branch of Schott's was that they were once Schott's von Schottenstein but that our ancestor gambled away title and property. Yes, I am aware that these types of stories are common and rarely tangible. But, all members of the older generation swore by this tale, including a great-aunt, who was supposed to be very reliable. As a point of interest, her husband had been a member of the SS and probably had an "Ahnenpass". Perhaps she had information the rest of them did not possess. She refused to share any information she had with the other members of the family. Interestingly enough, I have located the village of Schottenstein, and it is near where my mother said it was supposed to be, although she, herself, never discovered its actual existence. Since I have just been apprised of documents relating to my grandfather, I have a far way to go to every being able to discover any actual connection, although I have found quite a few details relating to the von Schottenstein's. Elsa
Date: 2000/06/03 07:59:22
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
At 00:17 03.06.00 -0400, Elsa wrote: ------------------------- > > Hi Stefan: > > At this point, I don't know if any of my Schott's are from the areas you > mentioned. Besides Emil, my grandfather, I only have his father's name > which is Andreas Schott married to a Wilhelmine Ruff. I believe that > Andreas (not to be confused with Emil's son, Andreas) might have lived > in Erlangen, but was not necessarily born there. Andreas Schott, *29.09.1830 in Stadtsteinach, +25.10.1873 in Stadtsteinach married on 10.02.1862 in Stadtsteinach: Kunigunda Knoll, *28.07.1837 in Stadtsteinach, +12.12.1896 in Stadtsteinach most probably different, but I thought I just might.... > I have a vague > recollection of my mother mentioning a Wurttemberg connection somewhere > in the family. Andreas must have died fairly young because his wife > remarried (don't know who) a man who owned a furniture shop in > Erlangen. The only other family story about our branch of Schott's was > that they were once Schott's von Schottenstein but that our ancestor > gambled away title and property. Yes, I am aware that these types of > stories are common and rarely tangible. But, all members of the older > generation swore by this tale, including a great-aunt, who was supposed > to be very reliable. As a point of interest, her husband had been a > member of the SS and probably had an "Ahnenpass". As a member of the SS it was most probably strict requirement to proof "undeluted blood"....: I have copy of the Ahnenpass of my Gt.Aunt. My cousin is in genealogy for several years and there is one couple, which she can't find in the public records (archives), although they are quite clearly mentioned in that Ahnenpass. She is considering meanwhile, whether one of those two persons (or their relation) was "invented" to cover a black hole... Cheers, Stefan
Date: 2000/06/04 02:39:47
From: ruffbj <ruffbj(a)juno.com>
On Sat, 03 Jun 2000 00:17:40 -0400 Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca> writes: > >At this point, I don't know if any of my Schott's are from the areas >you mentioned. Besides Emil, my grandfather, I only have his father's name >which is Andreas Schott married to a Wilhelmine Ruff. I believe that >Andreas (not to be confused with Emil's son, Andreas) might have lived Hello Elsa: This is one of the very few times I have seen RUFF mentioned on the list. Can you tell me any more? My line comes from Franz Phillip RUFF, from Reidern and Eichenbühl (near Miltenberg am Main) in Unterfranken about 1800. His son, Anselm Ruff, my g-g-grandfather, settled in New York City in 1852. Other family names in Bayern were Schmitt and Neuberger. I've not come across any Wilhelmine Ruff in my research, tho. Bill Ruff ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Date: 2000/06/04 23:03:32
From: Federschmidt <federschmidt(a)wtal.de>
Dear list-members, is it better to speak English in this list, or is German also o.k.? Liebe Gisela, folgende Infos über die Kinder von Daniel Bach (*21.08.1639, +10.07.1716) oo Agatha Federschmid (*27.06.1645, +15.02.1717) habe ich mal von Herrn W. Bub bekommen: 1. Johannes * 31.03.1674 2. Georg *20.02.1676 3. Eva * 06.06.1678 4. Balthasar * 19.12.1681, died after one week 5. Thomas * 19.12.1681, died after one week 6. Michael * 21.02.1683 7. Johannes Jakobus * 24.07.1685 CU Karl Federschmidt -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Gisela Bach <ghbach(a)home.com> An: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Datum: Mittwoch, 31. Mai 2000 12:16 Betreff: [FR] Bach Familie Gunzenhausen >An alle Listen Teilnehmer, suche noch mehr Information ueber die Bach's.... >Auszug der Stammtafel Bach: >Hans Bach geb. 1603 in Burck am Hesselberg starb 1673 in Sausenhofen >Er kam 1627 als Buerger und Uebereiter (?) nach Gunzenhausen, wo er >saemtliche Leiden und Drangsale des 30jaehrigen Krieges mitmachte. Er >heiratete 1635 Veronika Funk von Frickenfelden. 1638 wurde er Buerger in >Gunzenhausen. Er zog 1650 mit seiner Ehefrau nach Sausenhofen, wo die Bach >Muehlbesitzer waren, sie waren Freibauern. >Daniel Bach geb. 20.8.1639 zu Gunzenhausen. Er war dann Freibauer in in >Sausenhofen und 1673 verheiratete sich mit der Tochter Agathe, des Bauern >und Steiners Federschmidt . Im Jahre 1695 kaufteer zu seinem Freibauernhof >noch >den 120 Tagwerk grossen Hanselbauernhof. > >Johannes Bach geb. 31.3.1674 zu Sausenhofen, Freibauer und Muehlbesitzer >heiratete >1697 Maragrethe Kleemann aus Dittenheim. Danach liegt keine Information vor >bis ins >19. Jahrhundert. >Vielen Gruesse, >Gisela H. Bach, Toronto Canada > > >_______________________________________________ >Franken-L mailing list >Franken-L(a)genealogy.net >http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l > >
Date: 2000/06/05 04:53:43
From: Earl Brunner <ebrunner(a)lvcablemodem.com>
Can't remember my password or it is not taking my address. What do I do to unsubscribe? Earl Brunner ebrunner(a)lvcablemodem.com
Date: 2000/06/05 10:33:37
From: Bernd Freibott <freibott(a)hotmail.com>
I know that there are Schott in Ebern in Underfranken. Ciao Bernd ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 2000/06/05 11:39:34
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
At 08:27 05.06.00 GMT, you wrote: ------------------------- > I know that there are Schott in Ebern in Underfranken. > Ciao > Bernd Bernd, :-) I guess Ebern is either in "Unterfranken" (Hochdeutsch) or in "Under Fran-gen" (Franconian dialect - Frengischer Dialegd) ;-) ;-) <g> Cheers, Stefan
Date: 2000/06/05 14:10:25
From: Bernd Freibott <freibott(a)hotmail.com>
Sorry, I've been living outside Underfrangen for many years. So, living abroad, I've lost a bit of my frengish eloquence ;)At 08:27 05.06.00 GMT, you wrote: ------------------------- > I know that there are Schott in Ebern in Underfranken. > Ciao > Bernd Bernd, :-) I guess Ebern is either in "Unterfranken" (Hochdeutsch) or in "Under Fran-gen" (Franconian dialect - Frengischer Dialegd) ;-) ;-) <g> Cheers, Stefan
________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 2000/06/05 15:38:15
From: DORISR <DORISR(a)aol.com>
I have the same problem, I wish someone would tell us about this "password" thing, I don't even remember given one Doris
Date: 2000/06/05 18:49:58
From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca>
Des komme doch ned erlaum. A weng frengisch bleibd nuch dabei. Wennedi nueh frengisch schreim defferd, werreds fill leichde Once a Frank, always a Frank, at least in speech! Elsa. Bernd Freibott wrote: > >At 08:27 05.06.00 GMT, you wrote: > >------------------------- > > > I know that there are Schott in Ebern in Underfranken. > > > Ciao > > > Bernd > > > >Bernd, :-) > > > >I guess Ebern is either in "Unterfranken" (Hochdeutsch) or in "Under > >Fran-gen" (Franconian dialect - Frengischer Dialegd) ;-) ;-) <g> > > > >Cheers, > >Stefan > > > Sorry, I've been living outside Underfrangen for many years. So, living > abroad, I've lost a bit of my frengish eloquence ;) > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/06/05 19:39:49
From: Dwolff3 <Dwolff3(a)aol.com>
Does this also apply to being 'long winded"? My mothers family was originally from the Oberfranken area. Today, several generations later, we still have the trouble being concise, and can take a least three times longer than others to tell a story. Of course, ALL of the details are included. Jo Ann
Date: 2000/06/05 19:56:11
From: Dwolff3 <Dwolff3(a)aol.com>
My mothers family came from the Oberfranken area around Bayreuth/Pegnitz in 1840-50. Family names - Kieffner/Kuffner, Rauh, Beck, Krodel, Neicum, Arneth, Schiller, Keller, Hagen, Hacker, Eisenhuth. They were Lutheran and settled in Haysville, Dubois Co., IN. They remained together as a group and many of their descendants still live in the Haysville area and worship at the church founded by their ancestors. There are several other areas in southern Indiana that people from this group went. Is anyone familiar with this group of Bavarian Lutherans? Why did they leave at this time? Are there any others researching these names? Thanks in advance. Jo Ann
Date: 2000/06/05 20:04:53
From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca>
Most definitely! It is a trait that I certainly possess. It comes in very handy though, when writing is a partial means to livelihood! Elsa Dwolff3(a)aol.com wrote: > Does this also apply to being 'long winded"? My mothers family was > originally from the Oberfranken area. Today, several generations later, we > still have the trouble being concise, and can take a least three times longer > than others to tell a story. Of course, ALL of the details are included. > Jo Ann > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/06/05 20:29:17
From: John Merz <hessian(a)cgocable.net>
Hello, Elsa, what do you mean by 'trait'? The mailing lists are over populated by people who use long-winded explanations and seldom are very precise, or in the other extreme, come with too many little details, not relevant at all for getting the right answers. Now, what was the question again? John :) From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 2:03 PM > Most definitely! It is a trait that I certainly possess. It comes in very handy > though, when writing is a partial means to livelihood! > > Elsa > > Dwolff3(a)aol.com wrote: > > > Does this also apply to being 'long winded"? My mothers family was > > originally from the Oberfranken area. <Snip>
Date: 2000/06/05 21:50:10
From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca>
I must apologize to those people whom I offended with my descriptive messages. I realize that I am being "slammed". Just because I enjoy and have tolerance for "description", does not mean that is a quality shared by others. I apologize again, and will not offend again. Elsa John Merz wrote: > Hello, Elsa, what do you mean by 'trait'? The mailing lists are over > populated by people who use long-winded explanations and seldom are > very precise, or in the other extreme, come with too many little details, > not relevant at all for getting the right answers. > Now, what was the question again? > John :) > > From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca> > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 2:03 PM > > > Most definitely! It is a trait that I certainly possess. It comes in > very handy > > though, when writing is a partial means to livelihood! > > > > Elsa > > > > Dwolff3(a)aol.com wrote: > > > > > Does this also apply to being 'long winded"? My mothers family was > > > originally from the Oberfranken area. <Snip> > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/06/06 02:23:29
From: Ginger <gingerh(a)shawneelink.com>
Wennst widder amoal kummst Ins Heimatland naf Dann richst an schoein Gruss An mei Naermberch aus. Ginger gingerh(a)shawneelink.com -----Original Message----- From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca> To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Date: Monday, June 05, 2000 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [FR] SCHOTT - Erlangen Standesamt Revisited >Des komme doch ned erlaum. A weng frengisch bleibd nuch dabei. Wennedi nueh >frengisch schreim defferd, werreds fill leichde > >Once a Frank, always a Frank, at least in speech! > >Elsa. > >Bernd Freibott wrote: > >> >At 08:27 05.06.00 GMT, you wrote: >> >------------------------- >> > > I know that there are Schott in Ebern in Underfranken. >> > > Ciao >> > > Bernd >> > >> >Bernd, :-) >> > >> >I guess Ebern is either in "Unterfranken" (Hochdeutsch) or in "Under >> >Fran-gen" (Franconian dialect - Frengischer Dialegd) ;-) ;-) <g> >> > >> >Cheers, >> >Stefan >> > >> Sorry, I've been living outside Underfrangen for many years. So, living >> abroad, I've lost a bit of my frengish eloquence ;) >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Franken-L mailing list >> Franken-L(a)genealogy.net >> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Franken-L mailing list >Franken-L(a)genealogy.net >http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/06/06 04:27:29
From: ALei895791 <ALei895791(a)aol.com>
In a letter received today from a parish archivist in Beerbach I learned that church books in several ancestral villages were removed to the centralized archives of the Lutheran church in Regensburg. This is disappointing news, since my July trip has been intended for research in local churches. I had planned to retain the services of a genealogist to help. I am a member of GFF. I now may have to go to Regensburg. If someone could advise, I would welcome it. At one time the Lutheran church in Bavaria discouraged church book microfilming by LDS. Has that changed? Have the church books in Regensburg been microfilmed? I am not entirely adrift. I will be with relatives in Russelbach.
Date: 2000/06/06 05:03:03
From: Pat Conner <pawnee(a)qnet.com>
If you get an answer to this, will you be sure to post it to the list? Or else can you let me know also? Do you know how many area churches are now in Regensburg? I would also like to know if the records have been filmed. Thanks for any info you can give! Pat in California ALei895791(a)aol.com wrote: > In a letter received today from a parish archivist in Beerbach I learned that > church books in several ancestral villages were removed to the centralized > archives of the Lutheran church in Regensburg. This is disappointing news, > since my July trip has been intended for research in local churches. I had > planned to retain the services of a genealogist to help. I am a member of > GFF. I now may have to go to Regensburg. If someone could advise, I would > welcome it. At one time the Lutheran church in Bavaria discouraged church > book microfilming by LDS. Has that changed? Have the church books in > Regensburg been microfilmed? I am not entirely adrift. I will be with > relatives in Russelbach. > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/06/06 06:09:41
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 5 Jun 2000, at 15:48, Elsa Kahler wrote: > I must apologize to those people whom I offended with my descriptive > messages. I realize that I am being "slammed". Just because I enjoy > and have tolerance for "description", does not mean that is a quality > shared by others. I apologize again, and will not offend again. Please don't feel that way. It is much better to err on giving too much information rather too little in one's posts. As a matter of fact most posts give too little information in both their questions and their answers. Fred 26 Warren St. Beverly, NJ 08010 609-386-6846 fred(a)compu.com/fredrump(a)home/fredrump(a)earthlink.net
Date: 2000/06/06 08:27:36
From: Monika Pertsch <pertsch(a)uni-bonn.de>
There is a list of all church books in Regensburg http://home.t-online.de/home/LKANuernberg/kibureg.htm Monika Pertsch pertsch(a)uni-bonn.de Pat Conner wrote: > If you get an answer to this, will you be sure to post it to the list? Or else > can you let me know also? Do you know how many area churches are now in > Regensburg? I would also like to know if the records have been filmed. Thanks > for any info you can give! > Pat in California > > ALei895791(a)aol.com wrote: > > > In a letter received today from a parish archivist in Beerbach I learned that > > church books in several ancestral villages were removed to the centralized > > archives of the Lutheran church in Regensburg. This is disappointing news, > > since my July trip has been intended for research in local churches. I had > > planned to retain the services of a genealogist to help. I am a member of > > GFF. I now may have to go to Regensburg. If someone could advise, I would > > welcome it. At one time the Lutheran church in Bavaria discouraged church > > book microfilming by LDS. Has that changed? Have the church books in > > Regensburg been microfilmed? I am not entirely adrift. I will be with > > relatives in Russelbach. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Franken-L mailing list > > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l >
Date: 2000/06/06 08:55:25
From: Bernd Freibott <freibott(a)hotmail.com>
Mach ich! Und zwar schon bald! Ciao aus Rom! Bernd
Wennst widder amoal kummst Ins Heimatland naf Dann richst an schoein Gruss An mei Naermberch aus. Ginger gingerh(a)shawneelink.com -----Original Message----- From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca> To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Date: Monday, June 05, 2000 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [FR] SCHOTT - Erlangen Standesamt Revisited>Des komme doch ned erlaum. A weng frengisch bleibd nuch dabei. Wennedi nueh>frengisch schreim defferd, werreds fill leichde > >Once a Frank, always a Frank, at least in speech! > >Elsa. > >Bernd Freibott wrote: > >> >At 08:27 05.06.00 GMT, you wrote: >> >------------------------- >> > > I know that there are Schott in Ebern in Underfranken. >> > > Ciao >> > > Bernd >> > >> >Bernd, :-) >> > >> >I guess Ebern is either in "Unterfranken" (Hochdeutsch) or in "Under >> >Fran-gen" (Franconian dialect - Frengischer Dialegd) ;-) ;-) <g> >> > >> >Cheers, >> >Stefan >> > >> Sorry, I've been living outside Underfrangen for many years. So, living >> abroad, I've lost a bit of my frengish eloquence ;) >>>> ________________________________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Franken-L mailing list >> Franken-L(a)genealogy.net >> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Franken-L mailing list >Franken-L(a)genealogy.net >http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l _______________________________________________ Franken-L mailing list Franken-L(a)genealogy.net http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 2000/06/06 16:36:23
From: B. Bauernschmidt <bauernschmidt(a)odn.de>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: <ALei895791(a)aol.com> An: <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Gesendet: Dienstag, 6. Juni 2000 04:20 Betreff: [FR] New location of Lutheran church records > In a letter received today from a parish archivist in Beerbach I learned that > church books in several ancestral villages were removed to the centralized > archives of the Lutheran church in Regensburg. This is disappointing news, Go to the Homepage of the GFF (www.gf-franken.de) and you will find a link to a list, which shows you all parishs (churchbooks), who were removed to Regensburg (and also all parishes in Bamberg and Wuerzburg). All Churchbooks in Regensburg (also Bamberg and Wuerzburg) are microfilmed (but not from LDS!) and you can use microfiches in the archive in Regensburg. Some of the parishs (not all!) have duplicates of the microfiches, which can be used in the parish itself. Viele Grüße Bruno Bauernschmidt bauernschmidt(a)odn.de
Date: 2000/06/06 17:03:13
From: Dwolff3 <Dwolff3(a)aol.com>
Elsa, In speaking about our "long winded" trait, I was not being critical. I happen to agree with Fred, too often people today error by not giving enough information and consequently omit the best of the story. My daughter, a journalist, is constantly having what she considers important to her article cut by the editor. I was overjoyed to find more to your entries than two lines. I'm terribly sorry if I offended you or anyone. Jo Ann
Date: 2000/06/06 17:11:05
From: John Merz <hessian(a)cgocable.net>
Hello, Franken-List, I wish to thank Mr. Bauernschmidt for providing this important URL, and having bookmarked it for future reference, I would suggest to others to do the same. It may come in handy, particularly if you do research in Franken for more than one name. I myself, doing research on the soldiers of the Ansbach-Bayreuth troops which served in America during the American Revolution, and trying to help ancestors of such soldiers to find their Franken connections, appreciate the help this list, and participants like Mr. Bauernschmidt are providing. (Anybody knows anything about 'von Molithor', who settled in Nova Scotia?) Thanks for your interest, John Helmut Merz http://www.cgo.wave.ca/~hessian ----- Original Message ----- From: B. Bauernschmidt <bauernschmidt(a)odn.de> To: <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [FR] New location of Lutheran church records > Go to the Homepage of the GFF (www.gf-franken.de) and you will find a link > to a list, which shows you all parishs (churchbooks), who were removed to > Regensburg (and also all parishes in Bamberg and Wuerzburg). All > Bruno Bauernschmidt > bauernschmidt(a)odn.de >
Date: 2000/06/06 17:25:58
From: John Merz <hessian(a)cgocable.net>
|
Dear Franken list, this just came into my mailbox.
The sender Patricia Myers sure needs help, who can
give it to her?
Not being a subscriber herself, perhaps someone can
give her instructions
how to go about subscribing and/or other
genealogical help.
Cheers,
John Merz
|
Date: 2000/06/06 18:32:39
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 5 Jun 2000, at 9:31, DORISR(a)aol.com wrote: Question about passwords and unsubscribing > I have the same problem, I wish someone would tell us about this > "password" thing, I don't even remember given one Doris > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l Folks, please do me the favor and click on the above link.Once you get there and if you need to read the message in English also click there. At the bottom of that page you can enter your email address and receive your system assigned password. Then go in and change this to something which you can rememeber for the future. You may then unsubscribe yourself or change any other options on your private list profile. The whole thing isn't really very complicated if you try it out. This also applies to the other lists I manage http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/oldenburg-l http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/ow-preussen-l http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/hannover-l Fred 26 Warren St. Beverly, NJ 08010 609-386-6846 fred(a)compu.com/fredrump(a)home/fredrump(a)earthlink.net
Date: 2000/06/06 20:05:37
From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca>
Dear Jo Ann and other list members: I was not offended by your message, but rather had a nice chuckle over a shared trait, be it a cultural trait, or one peculiar to some families. This is a wonderful list which has provided me with good information and the opportunity to converse with a number of really nice people. My wish is that we continue to be able to share our common interest in genealogical research with "gemuetlichkeit". I've noticed two perspectives to this type of research -- the factual and the anecdotal. I feel there is room for both and both have value. I., myself, prefer the anecdotal because anecdotes help me to remember the person (sort of brings him or her to life for me). Chances are, if I ever come across that name, I will "click" to it rather than pass it by. Consider the difference between a "Hans Doe" (fictitious) born in Anytown on Anydate compared to a "Hans Doe" who was extremely difficult to locate because he was the black sheep and no one in the family wanted to keep records (also fictitious). A rendering of why he was the black sheep would make him even less forgettable. I enjoy and appreciate everyone's input and wish you all happy hunting, Elsa Dwolff3(a)aol.com wrote: > Elsa, > In speaking about our "long winded" trait, I was not being critical. I > happen to agree with Fred, too often people today error by not giving enough > information and consequently omit the best of the story. My daughter, a > journalist, is constantly having what she considers important to her article > cut by the editor. I was overjoyed to find more to your entries than two > lines. > I'm terribly sorry if I offended you or anyone. > Jo Ann > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/06/06 20:31:11
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 6 Jun 2000, at 11:08, John Merz wrote:
> I myself, doing research on the soldiers of the Ansbach-Bayreuth
> troops which served in America during the American Revolution, and
> trying to help ancestors of such soldiers to find their Franken
> connections, appreciate the help this list, and participants like Mr.
> Bauernschmidt are providing.
On this topic, if anyone ever finds out about any sources which list
roll lists of any of the Ansbach troops or anything connected to
them, I sure would appreciate finding out about such a source.
An ancestor of mine was one of those troops but he served after
the revolutionary period as a Feldjäger. Since Ansbach, a
Hohenzollern dynasty, became part of Prussia he then became a
Prussian Feldjäger and was sent with two companies under Major
von Tümpling to Westphalia to protect against possible advances
of Napoleon. He then got one of the local ladies pregnant, got
married and was discharged.
Feldjäger Johann Friedrich Ludwig Hämmerer's origin is still
probablematic for me. His father supposedly was a Verwalter in
Schwabach. Whether this was the city of the Amt I don't know yet.
Much work is to be done and the ancestors are many. His mother
was the illegitimate daughter of Freiherr von Lentersheim with the
mother an great big unknown. The Uradel line of the von
Lentersheimer line died out with her father. They had their estates
in Altenmuhr. I hear very little about this section of Franconia in this
list. I don't even know if there are copies of their churchbooks
anywhere. The originals as far as I know are still in Altenmuhr.
Nobody can seem to find an entry for this illigitmate birth though.
There are several others as the man was a rather prolific father
trying to have a son somewhere somehow.
Every once in a while I post this info but I have yet to receive any
connections from this list or the Verein some of us belong to. I keep
hoping though and as I finish the ancestry of the lucky Westphalian
girl done I'll be back to work on this.
Fred
26 Warren St.
Beverly, NJ 08010
609-386-6846
fred(a)compu.com/fredrump(a)home/fredrump(a)earthlink.net
Date: 2000/06/06 21:20:02
From: LTBoehmke <LTBoehmke(a)aol.com>
thank you, Mr. B for that URL LaVerne ltboehmke(a)aol.com
Date: 2000/06/06 22:41:55
From: REBARTH <REBARTH(a)aol.com>
Fred asked for information on Ansbach troop rolls. Check out FHL fiche number 6001297 (4 fiche) Die Ansbach-Bayreuther Truppen im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg 1777-1783. I looked at this years ago and believe they showed who deserted and stayed in places like Nova Scotia. Also check the library of the GFF (ask someone who has the library disc). I believe they have at least one source (book) which deals in detail with this subject, and may have experts among the members on this topic as well. Greetings from Nebraska Roland Barth (a Fäata Pflastascheißa)
Date: 2000/06/06 23:13:18
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 6 Jun 2000, at 16:35, REBARTH(a)aol.com wrote: > Fred asked for information on Ansbach troop rolls. > Check out FHL fiche number 6001297 (4 fiche) Die Ansbach-Bayreuther > Truppen im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg 1777-1783. I looked at > this years ago and believe they showed who deserted and stayed in > places like Nova Scotia. Yes, thes are lists from troops who were over here. One would think that they have something similar over there from an even later time period, but so far no historian has been able to help me. I think we in other countries are simply very spoiled when it comes to historical archives. They don't seem to keep as much over there. I don't think it was destroyed in war either as then there would have at least been a mention of such things as having been around. >Also check the library of the GFF (ask > someone who has the library disc). I believe they have at least one > source (book) which deals in detail with this subject, and may have > experts among the members on this topic as well. Greetings from > Nebraska Roland Barth (a Fäata Pflastascheißa) I've written to several historians over there who should know the history but on the military side they all draw a blank. It's just not something they have dealt with. This is not something I'm just now asking about. It's an old story to me and it still amazes me that nothing exists. My supposition is that Prussia removed all the local achives when they bought the country so to speak and that everything sort of got lost once it got to Berlin. Eventually it was destroyed in the phospor bombing attacks on the palaces and archives of Potsdam at the very end of WWII. Sort of a closing statement to go along with destruction of Saxon royal buildings in Dresden. War is simply without logic. Fred 26 Warren St. Beverly, NJ 08010 609-386-6846 fred(a)compu.com/fredrump(a)home/fredrump(a)earthlink.net
Date: 2000/06/07 07:58:49
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 6 Jun 2000, at 7:49, St. Francis wrote: > Fred > > I also have trouble in entering to find out my password. > In what space are we to enter it - in the top space or in the > bottom space? If it is the top space, there is no place > indicated to enter it / send it. If it is the bottom space, > when the address is then sent / entered, an error message > is given indicating that the password needed to be entered. I don't get these results when I do the same thing. see below one more time. > But, I am unable to do this because I do not have that > password. I find the process a bit unclear, or are to simply > re-subscribe and indicate our own new password? > > Please advise on where to procede on this. Ok, one more time. On the bottom space where it sayd EDIT OPTIONS you key in your email address. The click it. You're now on your personal options page. Click the desired language again. The machine forgot that you were on the English page. You'll now see a place which says FORGOTTEN YOUR PASSWORD among other things. Just click on it and the password will immediately be sent to the address you entered in the previous step. You can skip step one if you'll just add your email address behind this URL where the .... are: http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/options-e/oldenburg-L/....... Obviously use the name of the list you wish to go to. I really don't see where the problem is on this. Fred 26 Warren St. Beverly, NJ 08010 609-386-6846 fred(a)compu.com/fredrump(a)home/fredrump(a)earthlink.net
Date: 2000/06/07 16:37:46
From: John Merz <hessian(a)cgocable.net>
Hello Wolfgang Fred Rump, just for clarification- when you speak of 'over there' I take it you mean 'over there in Franken/Bavaria/Germany', and when you refer to 'over here', you mean New Jersey/USA/America ? In any event, there is plenty of archival material 'over there' in Frankenland, but it is either hidden, or hoarded away, or guarded very jealously and hard to get at. But there is hope, some true Frankonians and Historians are making every effort to discover those treasurers, and here I will give you some e-mail addresses where you may get assistance. For a starter, Mr. Bruno Bauernschmidt is one of them, his address is known, further: Herr Horst Lochner, Bayreuth, LochnerLT(a)t-online.de Herr Karl C. Walther, Eckersdorf, KarlCWalther(a)t-online.de and last not least Dr. Erhard Staedtler, Feldafing, erhard.staedtler(a)t-online.de This help to the Franconians from a Hessian, good luck! John Merz ----- Original Message ----- From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com> To: <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [FR] New location of Lutheran church records > On 6 Jun 2000, at 16:35, REBARTH(a)aol.com wrote: > > > Fred asked for information on Ansbach troop rolls. > > Check out FHL fiche number 6001297 (4 fiche) Die Ansbach-Bayreuther > > Truppen im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg 1777-1783. I looked at > > this years ago and believe they showed who deserted and stayed in > > places like Nova Scotia. > > Yes, thes are lists from troops who were over here. One would > think that they have something similar over there from an even later > time period, but so far no historian has been able to help me. I think > we in other countries are simply very spoiled when it comes to > historical archives. They don't seem to keep as much over there. I > don't think it was destroyed in war either as then there would have > at least been a mention of such things as having been around. > > >Also check the library of the GFF (ask > > someone who has the library disc). I believe they have at least one > > source (book) which deals in detail with this subject, and may have > > experts among the members on this topic as well. Greetings from > > Nebraska Roland Barth (a Fäata Pflastascheißa) > > I've written to several historians over there who should know the > history but on the military side they all draw a blank. It's just not > something they have dealt with. > > This is not something I'm just now asking about. It's an old story to > me and it still amazes me that nothing exists. My supposition is that > Prussia removed all the local achives when they bought the > country so to speak and that everything sort of got lost once it got > to Berlin. Eventually it was destroyed in the phospor bombing > attacks on the palaces and archives of Potsdam at the very end of > WWII. Sort of a closing statement to go along with destruction of > Saxon royal buildings in Dresden. War is simply without logic. > > Fred > > > 26 Warren St. > Beverly, NJ 08010 > 609-386-6846 > fred(a)compu.com/fredrump(a)home/fredrump(a)earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l >
Date: 2000/06/08 04:22:13
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 7 Jun 2000, at 10:35, John Merz wrote: > Hello Wolfgang Fred Rump, > just for clarification- when you speak of 'over there' I take it you > mean 'over there in Franken/Bavaria/Germany', and when you refer to > 'over here', you mean New Jersey/USA/America ? You got it right John. > > In any event, there is plenty of archival material 'over there' in > Frankenland, but it is either hidden, or hoarded away, or guarded very > jealously and hard to get at. But there is hope, some true Frankonians > and Historians are making every effort to discover those treasurers, > and here I will give you some e-mail addresses where you may get > assistance. > > For a starter, Mr. Bruno Bauernschmidt is one of them, his address is > known, further: > > Herr Horst Lochner, Bayreuth, LochnerLT(a)t-online.de > Herr Karl C. Walther, Eckersdorf, KarlCWalther(a)t-online.de > and last not least > Dr. Erhard Staedtler, Feldafing, erhard.staedtler(a)t-online.de > > This help to the Franconians from a Hessian, good luck! > John Merz You mean John that these Franken experts are not even on the Franken discussion list? :-) I know Bruno is here, as well as some other members of the GFF but we don't hear any responses when it comes to questions about any military archives, right? Basically out of the 750 or so members only a handful are available on line. In my experience on the net since 1985 or better since I pretty much started German genealogy on the internet in the early 90s, out of all the genealogical societies I belong to in Germany only the Osnabrücker management is more insular then the Franken group. It never ceases to amaze me how well they hide themselves from the world. The web page is of course a new addendum but see if you can even find a membership list there. Nada. Everything is hidden under the guise of Datenschutz even though the society could take a proactive stance and ask for negative responses from its membership as to who whishes to stay anonymous. That's what other societies do in this day of the internet and contact among members on a minute by minute basis. I'm currently working with a whole bunch of people from the Westphalian Genealogical society and members of the Osnabrücker group. It's such a pleasure to have such open doors available when one is far away from the societies meeting rooms yet still pays the annual dues like everyone else. The Franken folks have a grant total of five Suchanzeigen on their web page. Maybe everybody else already knows everything? :-) They like to do their own thing probably because of their membership size. But such an elephant seems to trod very carefully. He also moves at a snails pace in comparison to other more up to date groups who simply pick up the standards from others. I'm sure that eventually things will change. I just hope I'll still be around then. :-) Believe me, I've had correspondence per snail mail with the society but they knew nothing and could not help me and I can understand that because just because I want to know something doesn't mean that somebody else already does. I've purchased lots of books and even went over there. I've corresponded with authors of historical works on Franken history. Still nothing. I really don't think anything exists as to military history of pre-Prussian, pre-Bavarian Frankenland. I have some reprints of old Ansbach histories but they treat the military in very general ways. Curt Jany's history of the Prussian military is quite helpful as far as that side of history, ie after Ansbach became a part of Prussia and before it went to Bavaria. I'm not an amateur in this game but unless I go over there and do personal research (if they let me), I doubt if anybody can help me with the miliary side of things in the time period I'm interested in. Even then, there might simply be nothing there. Perhaps both the Prussians and the Bavarians carted everything off when they took charge and there really is nothing left were we are looking. Stimmt das Bruno? Oder nicht? Fred Fred 26 Warren St. Beverly, NJ 08010 609-386-6846 fred(a)compu.com/fredrump(a)home/fredrump(a)earthlink.net
Date: 2000/06/08 09:41:01
From: Bernd Freibott <freibott(a)hotmail.com>
Thank's for any help! Bernd ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 2000/06/09 01:29:09
From: E. J. HERTERICK <EJSMAPS(a)worldnet.att.net>
Bernd Freibott wrote:
>
> See here:
> Hier eine Erklaerung:
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/history/mediatisierunge.html
> Hier eine GenDatenbank:
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/surnames.htm
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Don't forget to check sometimes the Genealogy pages:
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/0.html
> Special researches:
> Freibott Family
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/1.html
> Limpert Family
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/4.html
> Index of family names:
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/surnames.htm
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Franken-L mailing list
> Franken-L(a)genealogy.net
> http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
I attempted to reach
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/surnames.htm
Yahoo says this site not operating cannot reach it. Do you know what the
problem is? Thanks ej
Date: 2000/06/09 01:29:31
From: E. J. HERTERICK <EJSMAPS(a)worldnet.att.net>
John Merz wrote: > > Hello, Franken-List, I wish to thank Mr. Bauernschmidt for providing > this important URL, and having bookmarked it for future reference, > I would suggest to others to do the same. It may come in handy, > particularly if you do research in Franken for more than one name. > > I myself, doing research on the soldiers of the Ansbach-Bayreuth troops > which served in America during the American Revolution, and trying to > help ancestors of such soldiers to find their Franken connections, > appreciate the help this list, and participants like Mr. Bauernschmidt > are providing. (Anybody knows anything about 'von Molithor', who > settled in Nova Scotia?) > > Thanks for your interest, > John Helmut Merz http://www.cgo.wave.ca/~hessian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: B. Bauernschmidt <bauernschmidt(a)odn.de> > To: <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 10:25 AM > Subject: Re: [FR] New location of Lutheran church records > > > Go to the Homepage of the GFF (www.gf-franken.de) and you will find a > link > > to a list, which shows you all parishs (churchbooks), who were removed > to > > Regensburg (and also all parishes in Bamberg and Wuerzburg). All > Bruno > Bauernschmidt > > bauernschmidt(a)odn.de > > > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l Congradulations! Your homepage is outstanding. ej
Date: 2000/06/09 02:04:18
From: John Merz <hessian(a)cgocable.net>
Ey, thank you Sir, nice compliment (if it was meant for me, that is :) Just happen to remember your name as that of one of the more famous and enduring settlers of Nova Scotia after the American Revolution. Johann Conrad Herterich, of the Bayreuth Regiment, born 12.Dec.1752 at Laubersreuth/Muenchberg (now 95213 Muenchberg/Bayern, he came to the Clements Ts. in the Annapolis Valley of Nova Scotia, and raised a big family, helped establish a community, helped build a church, and was one of the last voices to sing his German hymns before beginning of the church service. (All part of my book 'The Hessians of Nova Scotia".) Anybody with a name like his can be proud of this man. Best regards, John Merz From: E. J. HERTERICK <EJSMAPS(a)worldnet.att.net> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 2:55 PM > John Merz wrote: > > > > I myself, doing research on the soldiers of the Ansbach-Bayreuth troops > > which served in America during the American Revolution, and trying to > > help ancestors of such soldiers to find their Franken connections, > > John Helmut Merz http://www.cgo.wave.ca/~hessian > Congradulations! Your homepage is outstanding. ej >
Date: 2000/06/09 04:08:16
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 8 Jun 2000, at 14:52, E. J. HERTERICK wrote:
> I attempted to reach
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/surnames.htm
> Yahoo says this site not operating cannot reach it. Do you know what
> the problem is? Thanks ej
Just clicked it and up came:
LIST OF SURNAMES
Created giovedì, ottobre 14, 1999
etc
fred
26 Warren St.
Beverly, NJ 08010
609-386-6846
fred(a)compu.com fredrump(a)home fredrump(a)earthlink.net
Date: 2000/06/09 10:33:29
From: Bernd Freibott <freibott(a)hotmail.com>
I attempted to reach
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/surnames.htm
Yahoo says this site not operating cannot reach it. Do you know what the
problem is? Thanks ej
I tried it and it did work! Maybe a temporary problem of geocities! Try again! Ciao Bernd ------------------------------------------------------------ Don't forget to check sometimes the Genealogy pages: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/0.html Special researches: Freibott Family http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/1.html Limpert Family http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/4.html Index of family names: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7765/family/surnames.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 2000/06/10 02:17:24
From: ALei895791 <ALei895791(a)aol.com>
The Alien Act of 1917 required all German aliens to register. My grandmother's sister, an 1872 immigrant from Franconia, was required to register at the Racine, Wisconsin post office and have her picture taken. Where are those records and pictures located?
Date: 2000/06/10 23:33:59
From: gerald KISABETH <geraldkisabeth(a)hotmail.com>
This society is in connection with the Wilfried Seibicke Institute. I had sent them my specifics and this is the letter that I just received.I would appreciate anyone who has heard of this society to drop me an e-mail. I have tried all source books and most known address on the meaning/origin of my old 15th century surname of Kueschwert.
Anyone help, please. Thanks for your time. Gerald Kisabeth ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 2000/06/11 00:36:17
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 10 Jun 2000, at 14:27, gerald KISABETH wrote: > Hello Hessians, is anyone familiar with an organization called > "Gesellschaft für deutsche Sprache"? In a letter written in German > they said for 96 DM they would process my inquiry and consultation and > present it to their Technical advisers for research into the surname > meaning/origin of "Kueschwert". This society is in connection with the > Wilfried Seibicke Institute. I had sent them my specifics and this is > the letter that I just received. I would appreciate anyone who has > heard of this society to drop me an e-mail. I have tried all source > books and most known address on the meaning/origin of my old 15th > century surname of Kueschwert. Anyone help, please. Thanks for your > time. Gerald Kisabeth Is it really that important to you? These people will tell you that it could be this or that but NO ONE can tell you for sure what a name meant in its original form as no one was there to witness its birth or watch over the varioations which occurred over the centuries. Some ancestor moves a few miles down the road and the local dialect changes his name and sound to something else. If he moved further it might come out completely different. For example the original Schuhmacher family which came to America (Philadelphia) early on, can now show 86 versions of this name. Many of them totally unrecognizable from the original. This involves only 300 years when records were written and people could read and write. To go back another 300 years would create many more variations and for all we know one might be yours. It is that crazy. I would really not waste my money to have someone tell me his version of what onomastics reveals to him. I don't think there is much concurrence among the experts as each has his own version of what may have happened to a word. In the end what does it really mean? We would be explaining one word out of the hundreds or thousands among our ancestral lines. I don't know how far back you've gone with your various lines but by the time we get to the origin of names we certainly have many thousands of different names in our lines. My opinion of course. Fred 26 Warren St. Beverly, NJ 08010 609-386-6846 fred(a)compu.com fredrump(a)home fredrump(a)earthlink.net
Date: 2000/06/11 00:59:12
From: John Merz <hessian(a)cgocable.net>
The original letter for some reason addressed to 'Hello Hessians', may I take the liberty to also add 'mein senf '. (my 2 cents worth): I fully endorse what Wolfgang Fred Rump has stated, lots of people and organizations offer services for a fee, which are not worth the money. Your example sounds rather high to start with, your money would be much better spend buying yourself a 'Namen Lexikon', there are several brands on the market, available in better book stores. Cheers, John (please notice how I have cut down on excess baggage (old messages) :) From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 7:41 PM > On 10 Jun 2000, at 14:27, gerald KISABETH wrote: > > > Hello Hessians, is anyone familiar with an organization called > > "Gesellschaft für deutsche Sprache"? In a letter written in German > <SNIP>. Anyone help, please. Thanks for your > > time. Gerald Kisabeth > > Is it really that important to you? These people will tell you that it > could be this or that but NO ONE can tell you for sure what a name > meant in its original form as no one was there to witness its birth > or watch over the varioations which occurred over the centuries.
Date: 2000/06/11 00:59:56
From: gerald KISABETH <geraldkisabeth(a)hotmail.com>
I would appreciate your thoughts and opinions. Thanks for your time, Gerald Kisabeth
From: "Wolfgang Fred Rump" <fredrump(a)home.com> Reply-To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net To: Franken-L(a)genealogy.net Subject: Re: [FR] German society Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 19:41:21 -0400 On 10 Jun 2000, at 14:27, gerald KISABETH wrote: > Hello Hessians, is anyone familiar with an organization called > "Gesellschaft für deutsche Sprache"? In a letter written in German > they said for 96 DM they would process my inquiry and consultation and > present it to their Technical advisers for research into the surname > meaning/origin of "Kueschwert". This society is in connection with the > Wilfried Seibicke Institute. I had sent them my specifics and this is > the letter that I just received. I would appreciate anyone who has > heard of this society to drop me an e-mail. I have tried all source > books and most known address on the meaning/origin of my old 15th > century surname of Kueschwert. Anyone help, please. Thanks for your > time. Gerald Kisabeth Is it really that important to you? These people will tell you that it could be this or that but NO ONE can tell you for sure what a name meant in its original form as no one was there to witness its birth or watch over the varioations which occurred over the centuries. Some ancestor moves a few miles down the road and the local dialect changes his name and sound to something else. If he moved further it might come out completely different. For example the original Schuhmacher family which came to America (Philadelphia) early on, can now show 86 versions of this name. Many of them totally unrecognizable from the original. This involves only 300 years when records were written and people could read and write. To go back another 300 years would create many more variations and for all we know one might be yours. It is that crazy. I would really not waste my money to have someone tell me his version of what onomastics reveals to him. I don't think there is much concurrence among the experts as each has his own version of what may have happened to a word. In the end what does it really mean? We would be explaining one word out of the hundreds or thousands among our ancestral lines. I don't know how far back you've gone with your various lines but by the time we get to the origin of names we certainly have many thousands of different names in our lines. My opinion of course. Fred 26 Warren St. Beverly, NJ 08010 609-386-6846 fred(a)compu.com fredrump(a)home fredrump(a)earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Franken-L mailing list Franken-L(a)genealogy.net http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
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Date: 2000/06/11 05:41:52
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 10 Jun 2000, at 15:53, gerald KISABETH wrote: > The Kueschwert spelling disappeared in the 16th > century and has become Küspert-Kispert-Kisseberth-Kissenberth and > about 60 some spelling since. I will finish my family history book > this fall and would like to put a closure to this. The reason being is > that experts like Bahlow & Gold---- have said that the names > Küspert-Kispert & Kisseberth all come from Gispert/Geisel in > Westphalen? The do not ever mention the old name of Küschwert. My > direct ancestor Alexander Kisiberth graduated from the University of > Leipzig in 1587 & his name was spelled Küschwert then. My name > Kisabeth from Kisseberth from Kueschwert is proven. I strongly > disagree with the "Experts" because they connected the modern spelling > to the old Gisbert/Giesel origin and I can't really see the Küschwert- > Giesel connection. I would appreciate your thoughts and opinions. > Thanks for your time, Gerald Kisabeth My thoughts? Well, I'd pick a nice romantic meaning like being worth to be kissed. :-) Heck, why not? Küssen and Wert are two legitimate words which could well have been used in that original meaning. On the other hand we could make a cow (Kuh) and a sword (Schwert) out of it. Maybe the first guy was a butcher of old? You see how one can make names into various meanings? If I were going to try to explain the meaning of the name in a family history I would simply give the possibilities and leave it that. There is no certainty in any of them anyway. Fred 26 Warren St. Beverly, NJ 08010 609-386-6846 fred(a)compu.com fredrump(a)home fredrump(a)earthlink.net
Date: 2000/06/11 23:17:16
From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca>
Has anyone ever heard of the surname "Vallader" and from where it might stem? Search engines show it as being a "Romansch" language. I have a feeling it is not a Frankish name. My great-great-grandmother was Elisabetha Vallader who married a Zacharias Rahm, probably sometime around the early to mid eighteen hundreds. Thanks, Elsa Kahler
Date: 2000/06/12 03:58:49
From: Ragged Island Books Maps & Prints <raggedis(a)together.net>
Elsa,Forty years ago I knew a fellow named Ernst Vallader. I believe he was Swiss.
Dick G. At 05:14 PM 6/11/00 -0400, you wrote:
Has anyone ever heard of the surname "Vallader" and from where it might stem? Search engines show it as being a "Romansch" language. I have a feeling it is not a Frankish name. My great-great-grandmother was Elisabetha Vallader who married a Zacharias Rahm, probably sometime around the early to mid eighteen hundreds. Thanks, Elsa Kahler _______________________________________________ Franken-L mailing list Franken-L(a)genealogy.net http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Ragged Island Books Maps & Prints P. O. Box 541 Enosburg, VT 05450 802-933-6248 raggedis(a)together.netWe buy and sell anything made of paper or with an image: books, maps, prints, photos, letters, diaries, trade cards, postcards, even those old love letters of Grandma's.
Date: 2000/06/12 10:40:41
From: Mike Summerer <msummerer(a)loudoun.com>
Romansh probably dates back 1,500 years or more. The language is based on the so-called vulgar Latin, or "people's Latin," with influences from Etruscan, Celtic, and other languages spoken by early settlers in the mountain valleys of what are now the Grisons and Italy's South Tirol. It was officially recognized as Switzerland's fourth language on February 20, 1938, and was formalized as the written language of Rumauntsch in 1982. The language encompasses the dialects of Puter, Vallader, Jauer, Surmiran, Sutsilvaun, and Sursilvaun, together with Ladin (spoken around Bolzano and Cortina in Italy's Dolomites) and Friulaner (used by some 500,000 people along the Adriatic coast north of Venice). To make matters more complicated, the term "Ladin" is also applied to the Puter, Vallader, and Jauer dialects of Switzerland's Engadine. Ragged Island Books Maps & Prints wrote: > Elsa, > Forty years ago I knew a fellow named Ernst Vallader. I believe he > was Swiss. > Dick G. > > At 05:14 PM 6/11/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Has anyone ever heard of the surname "Vallader" and from where it might > >stem? Search engines show it as being a "Romansch" language. I have a > >feeling it is not a Frankish name. My great-great-grandmother was > >Elisabetha Vallader who married a Zacharias Rahm, probably sometime > >around the early to mid eighteen hundreds. > > > >Thanks, Elsa Kahler > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Franken-L mailing list > >Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > >http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l > > Ragged Island Books Maps & Prints > P. O. Box 541 > Enosburg, VT 05450 > 802-933-6248 > raggedis(a)together.net > We buy and sell anything made of paper or with an image: books, maps, > prints, photos, letters, diaries, trade cards, postcards, even those old > love letters of Grandma's. > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l
Date: 2000/06/14 02:17:46
From: Gisela Bach <ghbach(a)home.com>
Hallo an alle Ahnenforscher in Franken, suche nach weiteren Vorfahren meiner Grossmutter Kunigunde Bach geb. Lechner * 31.12.1887 in Nürnberg + 22.10.1962 in Nürnberg oo11.05.1907 in Nürnberg - Sebald mit Johann Bach *06.02.1852 in Gunzenhausen +23.1.1932 in Nürnberg Eltern von Kunigunde Bach: Johann Lechner (Vater) *24.0.1859 in Eckersmühlen/Schwabach + unbekannt oo 10.3.1890 in Nürnberg mit Maria A. Lechner geb. Hecht (Mutter) *15.4.1860 in Krähenhaus B.A. Tirschenreuth +03.09.1931 in Tirschenreuth -------------------------------------- Maria A. Lechner Tochter von Primian Eckstein *unbekannt in Gaismühle +unbekannt oo Regina Eckstein geb. Hecht * unbekannt + unbekannt -------------------------------------- Johann Lechner, Sohn von Margarethe Lechner oo Georg Paukner keine weiteren Angaben vorhanden Ausserdem tauchen auf der Bach Ahnentafel weitere Namen auf: Magdalena Hack, Augsburg Jakob Kruck, Neuburg/Donau Walburga Hiermeier, Steppberg Cheers from Toronto, Canada Gisela H. Bach ghbach(a)home.com ARRIX CANADA Marketing Manager Software & Services ----------------------------- www.interlog.com/~arrix
Date: 2000/06/15 10:18:11
From: Bernd Freibott <freibott(a)hotmail.com>
http://www.geocities.com/freibott_b/history/ghzgtmwuebu.html http://www.geocities.com/freibott_b/history/ghzgtmwuebu_mil.htmlWho knows something about the history of the Grandduchy of Wuerzburg and of it's Regiment? Are there somewhere archives about the members of the Regiment and the campagnes? See the link for what is known up to know, but would love to get more; also about the Bavarian-Frankish relation during the Rheinbund etc.. Thank's for any info!
Bernd ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 2000/06/26 04:09:47
From: Robert Loerzel <loerzel(a)mediaone.net>
|
For those of you who may be interested, here is a brief account of my recent trip to Oberstreu in Unterfranken and my efforts to do some genealogical research there. (My apologies for not including a German translation./Es tut mir leid, daß ich diese E-Mail vom Englisch ins Deutsche nicht ubersetzt habe.) Shortly before I left for Europe last month, Paul C. Miller sent me an e-mail saying that the Catholic Diocese in Würzburg is where I would find the old church records from Oberstreu. Paul told me I would need an appointment to examine their documents. I had written the diocese about a month earlier, but had received no response. When I flew to Paris, I called the diocese to see if I could make an appointment about a week later. The man who answered the phone was friendly (and fairly fluent in English), but unfortunately, he told me the next available day when I could visit the archives was Nov. 22! I thought, "Oh, well. I guess I'll have to do that research on a future trip." The good news is that the diocese has the records for Oberstreu on microfilm going back to 1601. I had also written letters to the burgermeister of Oberstreu and someone who shares my name (Robert Lörzel), but hadn't received any responses before my departure date. When I drove into Oberstreu, I had a terrific time photographing and videotaping the village's historic buildings, as well as the many signs explaning the town's history and gravestones with the name Lörzel. (I had visited the town once before, but I was traveling by train that time, which made it considerable more difficult to see the surrounding area.) After sightseeing, I went to Robert Lörzel's house. It turns out he had written a letter to me, only it hadn't arrived before my flight to Paris. He and his parents were very nice, and he showed me his family tree. We both have great-grandfathers named Lörzel who lived in Oberstreu around 1870, but we are not sure how they were related. Given how rare the Lörzel/Loerzel name is, it's certain we are somehow related. Robert had a printout of all 30 or so people named Lörzel who have listed telephone numbers in Germany (similar to a list I had printed out myself). I had considered writing or calling all of these people to see if any of them knew about the family's genealogy. Robert was kind enough to do this for me. As I sat and listened, he called all 30 numbers and got through to about 20 of the people. Unfortunately, most of them either knew nothing about their family trees or said their family had never lived in Unterfranken as far as they knew. A few of them said they believed their family had once been in the Oberstreu area. I'm glad Robert was able to do this for me, since I am not that fluent in German. He also knew the burgermeister's family and was able to arrange for me to visit the Rathaus a couple of days later to look at the village's records. The village has birth, marriage and death records from after 1875, which would cover at least some of the years I was looking for. When we went together to the Rathaus, the clerk took us up to the third floor -- a room filled with old books and documents. As a genealogist, I was salivating to see this potential treasure trove of information. But there was a problem: The clerk could not find the index that shows which records from Oberstreu are in which box or book. A similar index for the records of the neighboring village Mittelstreu (part of the same Gemeinde, or municipality, as Oberstreu) was on the desk, and glancing through it, I got an idea of what sort of information the boxes contained. Much of it looked very interesting, such as lists of families that lived in the village and a record of "Ein- und Auswanderung," showing who had moved into and out of the village during the 1800s. But without the index for Oberstreu, we weren't able to accomplish anything. Robert told me that he thought his friend, the burgermeister's son, had borrowed the index book to help Robert out with his family tree (at least that's what I think Robert told me, but I'm not totally sure, given my level of German), and the burgermeister's son was nowhere to be found. Sigh. I hope that I can return to Oberstreu sometime in the next few years, and it would be wonderful to arrange some time when I could go through the records in that room. In addition to basic vital records, I might find other details about the lives of my ancestors -- assuming they ever find the index! Although I didn't find any information during this trip to add to my family tree, now I know where to look when I make trips in the future. And I got to see the village, find out some stuff about its history, meet another Lörzel family and obtain their family tree. I planned to make a short videotape of Robert and his parents, Anton and Maria Lörzel, saying hello to my camera, but then Anton just started talking about his family, including various relatives who had moved to the U.S., and his experiences over the years. I let the videotape roll and caught about 20 minutes of this impromptu oral history on tape. I was able to follow it pretty well, but will have to translate it later. When I returned to the U.S. and picked up my mail, I discovered the diocese archive in Würzburg had written to me, setting up an appointment for June 5, 6 and 7. Apparently dates were available sooner than the other man had told me! In any case, it wouldn't have mattered, because I wouldn't have been able to visit Würzburg on those days. For anyone else who plans to visit the area and do research, I would highly recommend writing the diocese or calling them well in advance of your visit. The address is: Diözesan-Archiv, Domerschulstr. 2, 97070 Würzburg The phone number is (0931) 386-576, and the fax is (0931) 386-464. The archive is open only Monday through Wednesday, and the person to contact is the "Archivinspektorin," Frau Grabiele Polster. I hope this is of help to anyone else who plans to do research in the area. Robert Loerzel Palatine, Illinois |
Date: 2000/06/26 04:58:41
From: Robert Loerzel <loerzel(a)mediaone.net>
For those of you who may be interested, here is a brief account of my recent trip to Oberstreu in Unterfranken and my efforts to do some genealogical research there. (My apologies for not including a German translation./Es tut mir leid, daß ich diese E-Mail vom Englisch ins Deutsche nicht ubersetzt habe.) Shortly before I left for Europe last month, Paul C. Miller sent me an e-mail saying that the Catholic Diocese in Würzburg is where I would find the old church records from Oberstreu. Paul told me I would need an appointment to examine their documents. I had written the diocese about a month earlier, but had received no response. When I flew to Paris, I called the diocese to see if I could make an appointment about a week later. The man who answered the phone was friendly (and fairly fluent in English), but unfortunately, he told me the next available day when I could visit the archives was Nov. 22! I thought, "Oh, well. I guess I'll have to do that research on a future trip." The good news is that the diocese has the records for Oberstreu on microfilm going back to 1601. I had also written letters to the burgermeister of Oberstreu and someone who shares my name (Robert Lörzel), but hadn't received any responses before my departure date. When I drove into Oberstreu, I had a terrific time photographing and videotaping the village's historic buildings, as well as the many signs explaning the town's history and gravestones with the name Lörzel. (I had visited the town once before, but I was traveling by train that time, which made it considerable more difficult to see the surrounding area.) After sightseeing, I went to Robert Lörzel's house. It turns out he had written a letter to me, only it hadn't arrived before my flight to Paris. He and his parents were very nice, and he showed me his family tree. We both have great-grandfathers named Lörzel who lived in Oberstreu around 1870, but we are not sure how they were related. Given how rare the Lörzel/Loerzel name is, it's certain we are somehow related. Robert had a printout of all 30 or so people named Lörzel who have listed telephone numbers in Germany (similar to a list I had printed out myself). I had considered writing or calling all of these people to see if any of them knew about the family's genealogy. Robert was kind enough to do this for me. As I sat and listened, he called all 30 numbers and got through to about 20 of the people. Unfortunately, most of them either knew nothing about their family trees or said their family had never lived in Unterfranken as far as they knew. A few of them said they believed their family had once been in the Oberstreu area. I'm glad Robert was able to do this for me, since I am not that fluent in German. He also knew the burgermeister's family and was able to arrange for me to visit the Rathaus a couple of days later to look at the village's records. The village has birth, marriage and death records from after 1875, which would cover at least some of the years I was looking for. When we went together to the Rathaus, the clerk took us up to the third floor -- a room filled with old books and documents. As a genealogist, I was salivating to see this potential treasure trove of information. But there was a problem: The clerk could not find the index that shows which records from Oberstreu are in which box or book. A similar index for the records of the neighboring village Mittelstreu (part of the same Gemeinde, or municipality, as Oberstreu) was on the desk, and glancing through it, I got an idea of what sort of information the boxes contained. Much of it looked very interesting, such as lists of families that lived in the village and a record of "Ein- und Auswanderung," showing who had moved into and out of the village during the 1800s. But without the index for Oberstreu, we weren't able to accomplish anything. Robert told me that he thought his friend, the burgermeister's son, had borrowed the index book to help Robert out with his family tree (at least that's what I think Robert told me, but I'm not totally sure, given my level of German), and the burgermeister's son was nowhere to be found. Sigh. I hope that I can return to Oberstreu sometime in the next few years, and it would be wonderful to arrange some time when I could go through the records in that room. In addition to basic vital records, I might find other details about the lives of my ancestors -- assuming they ever find the index! Although I didn't find any information during this trip to add to my family tree, now I know where to look when I make trips in the future. And I got to see the village, find out some stuff about its history, meet another Lörzel family and obtain their family tree. I planned to make a short videotape of Robert and his parents, Anton and Maria Lörzel, saying hello to my camera, but then Anton just started talking about his family, including various relatives who had moved to the U.S., and his experiences over the years. I let the videotape roll and caught about 20 minutes of this impromptu oral history on tape. I was able to follow it pretty well, but will have to translate it later. When I returned to the U.S. and picked up my mail, I discovered the diocese archive in Würzburg had written to me, setting up an appointment for June 5, 6 and 7. Apparently dates were available sooner than the other man had told me! In any case, it wouldn't have mattered, because I wouldn't have been able to visit Würzburg on those days. For anyone else who plans to visit the area and do research, I would highly recommend writing the diocese or calling them well in advance of your visit. The address is: Diözesan-Archiv, Domerschulstr. 2, 97070 Würzburg The phone number is (0931) 386-576, and the fax is (0931) 386-464. The archive is open only Monday through Wednesday, and the person to contact is the "Archivinspektorin," Frau Grabiele Polster. I hope this is of help to anyone else who plans to do research in the area. Robert Loerzel Palatine, Illinois
Date: 2000/06/27 17:39:56
From: E. J. HERTERICK <EJSMAPS(a)worldnet.att.net>
Robert Loerzel wrote: > > For those of you who may be interested, here is a brief account of my recent > trip to Oberstreu in Unterfranken and my efforts to do some genealogical > research there. (My apologies for not including a German translation./Es tut > mir leid, daß ich diese E-Mail vom Englisch ins Deutsche nicht ubersetzt > habe.) > > Shortly before I left for Europe last month, Paul C. Miller sent me an > e-mail saying that the Catholic Diocese in Würzburg is where I would find > the old church records from Oberstreu. Paul told me I would need an > appointment to examine their documents. I had written the diocese about a > month earlier, but had received no response. When I flew to Paris, I called > the diocese to see if I could make an appointment about a week later. The > man who answered the phone was friendly (and fairly fluent in English), but > unfortunately, he told me the next available day when I could visit the > archives was Nov. 22! > > I thought, "Oh, well. I guess I'll have to do that research on a future > trip." The good news is that the diocese has the records for Oberstreu on > microfilm going back to 1601. > > I had also written letters to the burgermeister of Oberstreu and someone who > shares my name (Robert Lörzel), but hadn't received any responses before my > departure date. When I drove into Oberstreu, I had a terrific time > photographing and videotaping the village's historic buildings, as well as > the many signs explaning the town's history and gravestones with the name > Lörzel. (I had visited the town once before, but I was traveling by train > that time, which made it considerable more difficult to see the surrounding > area.) > > After sightseeing, I went to Robert Lörzel's house. It turns out he had > written a letter to me, only it hadn't arrived before my flight to Paris. He > and his parents were very nice, and he showed me his family tree. We both > have great-grandfathers named Lörzel who lived in Oberstreu around 1870, but > we are not sure how they were related. Given how rare the Lörzel/Loerzel > name is, it's certain we are somehow related. > > Robert had a printout of all 30 or so people named Lörzel who have listed > telephone numbers in Germany (similar to a list I had printed out myself). I > had considered writing or calling all of these people to see if any of them > knew about the family's genealogy. Robert was kind enough to do this for me. > As I sat and listened, he called all 30 numbers and got through to about 20 > of the people. Unfortunately, most of them either knew nothing about their > family trees or said their family had never lived in Unterfranken as far as > they knew. A few of them said they believed their family had once been in > the Oberstreu area. I'm glad Robert was able to do this for me, since I am > not that fluent in German. > He also knew the burgermeister's family and was able to arrange for me to > visit the Rathaus a couple of days later to look at the village's records. > The village has birth, marriage and death records from after 1875, which > would cover at least some of the years I was looking for. > > When we went together to the Rathaus, the clerk took us up to the third > floor -- a room filled with old books and documents. As a genealogist, I was > salivating to see this potential treasure trove of information. But there > was a problem: The clerk could not find the index that shows which records > from Oberstreu are in which box or book. A similar index for the records of > the neighboring village Mittelstreu (part of the same Gemeinde, or > municipality, as Oberstreu) was on the desk, and glancing through it, I got > an idea of what sort of information the boxes contained. Much of it looked > very interesting, such as lists of families that lived in the village and a > record of "Ein- und Auswanderung," showing who had moved into and out of the > village during the 1800s. > > But without the index for Oberstreu, we weren't able to accomplish anything. > Robert told me that he thought his friend, the burgermeister's son, had > borrowed the index book to help Robert out with his family tree (at least > that's what I think Robert told me, but I'm not totally sure, given my level > of German), and the burgermeister's son was nowhere to be found. Sigh. > > I hope that I can return to Oberstreu sometime in the next few years, and it > would be wonderful to arrange some time when I could go through the records > in that room. In addition to basic vital records, I might find other details > about the lives of my ancestors -- assuming they ever find the index! > > Although I didn't find any information during this trip to add to my family > tree, now I know where to look when I make trips in the future. And I got to > see the village, find out some stuff about its history, meet another Lörzel > family and obtain their family tree. > > I planned to make a short videotape of Robert and his parents, Anton and > Maria Lörzel, saying hello to my camera, but then Anton just started talking > about his family, including various relatives who had moved to the U.S., and > his experiences over the years. I let the videotape roll and caught about 20 > minutes of this impromptu oral history on tape. I was able to follow it > pretty well, but will have to translate it later. > > When I returned to the U.S. and picked up my mail, I discovered the diocese > archive in Würzburg had written to me, setting up an appointment for June 5, > 6 and 7. Apparently dates were available sooner than the other man had told > me! In any case, it wouldn't have mattered, because I wouldn't have been > able to visit Würzburg on those days. > > For anyone else who plans to visit the area and do research, I would highly > recommend writing the diocese or calling them well in advance of your visit. > The address is: > Diözesan-Archiv, > Domerschulstr. 2, > 97070 Würzburg > > The phone number is (0931) 386-576, and the fax is (0931) 386-464. The > archive is open only Monday through Wednesday, and the person to contact is > the "Archivinspektorin," Frau Grabiele Polster. > > I hope this is of help to anyone else who plans to do research in the area. > > Robert Loerzel > Palatine, Illinois > > _______________________________________________ > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l Robert: Thank you for this excellent report.I for one have had numerous questions answwered. .ej
Date: 2000/06/29 15:39:13
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 26 Jun 2000, at 9:15, E. J. HERTERICK wrote: > Robert: Thank you for this excellent report.I for one have had > numerous questions answwered. .ej But please be a bit more judicious as to how much you quote from a previous not. All this material winds up in archives and therefore duplicates the amount of room required plus the bandwidth is taxed double for everyone. Fred 26 Warren St. Beverly, NJ 08010 609-386-6846 fred(a)compu.com fredrump(a)home fredrump(a)earthlink.net
Date: 2000/06/29 17:08:18
From: John Merz <hessian(a)cgocable.net>
Dear Fred, from one listowner to another, thank you for finally reminding the list subscribers to cut back on excessive 'old messages' and if replying to one, to erase everything but the 'punchline' for identification purposes. I do like your list very much due to its informative contents, but to have to read the same message x-times over and over again, teras at our patience. Thanks again, John Merz From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com> To: <Franken-L(a)genealogy.net> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 9:13 AM > On 26 Jun 2000, at 9:15, E. J. HERTERICK wrote: > > > Robert: Thank you for this excellent report.I for one have had > > numerous questions answwered. .ej > > But please be a bit more judicious as to how much you quote from > a previous not. All this material winds up in archives and therefore > duplicates the amount of room required plus the bandwidth is taxed > double for everyone. > > Fred > >
Date: 2000/06/29 17:39:04
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
At 09:13 29.06.00 -0400, Fred wrote: ------------------------- > But please be a bit more judicious as to how much you quote from > a previous [post]. Folks, this sounds a bit harsh, but Fred is right. - thanks Fred for the reminder. One more reason: If you are subscribed to the list in Digest mode, then it is even more tiring to scroll through all those old ... over and over again. BTW: Me too, I do love this list and its friendly, co-operative spirit. And Fred does a fine job in occasional steering, but not ruling. Thanks! Stefan
Date: 2000/06/30 03:56:57
From: E. J. HERTERICK <EJSMAPS(a)worldnet.att.net>
John Merz wrote: > > Dear Fred, from one listowner to another, thank you for finally reminding > the list subscribers to cut back on excessive 'old messages' and if > replying > to one, to erase everything but the 'punchline' for identification > purposes. > > Franken-L mailing list > Franken-L(a)genealogy.net > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/franken-l To all" Mea Cupa" you know what I mean. It's so easy to touch that button and say something to a member that derserves my praise. I'm a new comer but know better. Thanks to all who let me know my bad mamors. ej
Date: 2009/07/05 22:30:54
From: Unknown <Unknown(a)>