Date: 2000/02/01 01:02:13
From: Talia + Axel Macht <talax(a)elogica.com.br>
During my family research I found some ancestors in * Eutin/Malente - Schleswig-Holstein * Hamburg and * Braunschweig (Brunswick) - Niedersachsen Can anybody tell me if there exist mailinglists (like franken-L) for the above mentioned areas! Thanks for any advice! Axel Macht talax(a)elogica.com.br
Date: 2000/02/01 16:13:49
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi fellow genealogy enthusiasts:Thanks for the great answers to my question. I know I can rely on this group for the answers that I don't know. This is one great group of people!
Thanks! Sincerely, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/02/03 17:43:51
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Good Morning: At least it is here! I have a another couple of questions to all of you knowledgeable genealogists. I just received a marriage transcript in which the following is written:"Der ehrbar u. Kunsterfahrene Johann Pemsel, Bürger und Meister des Groß und Klien Uhrmacher Handwerks allhier, ein junger Gesell, des S. T. Herrn Johann Paulaus Pemsel"
What is the "S. T." short for? What is it's meaning? In a death transcript it is written:"S.T. Johann Paulus Pemsel Magistrats Rath Lieutenant unter der National Gard 3ter Classe, Bürger...."
What would be a "town lieutenant under the national guard"? Thanks in advance! Sincerely, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/02/06 19:09:42
From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca>
My mother was born a "Schott" in Erlangen, Mittelfranken. She told us a story, which was passed down from generation to generation, about her line of "Schott's". Apparently, they were once von Schottenstein, but an ancestor gambled away both property and title. Hence, we became Schott. My generation has had various reactions to this tale ranging from it's a hoax to maybe it's true. Last week quite by accident I came across a Johann Georg Schott von Schottenstein zu Heimbach in the LDS IGI who between 1683 and 1700 had a number of children born in Schottenstein, Oberfranken. These children were known as von Schott. I have followed the ancestral path along a little way and have found one branch, the eldest son (as far as I have been able to determine) which settled in Schleiz, Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt, Thuringen. Another branch appeared to spring up in the Wurttemberg area. There were Schott's in Franken but not "apparently" connected to von Schott. I have a number of questions: 1)Can anyone lead me to some way of discovering where Schottenstein and Heimbach were located and what the counterpart location might be today? 2) Is there any way of discovering when the property and title were lost and who might have gained them? 3) Could someone actually gamble away a "title"? 4) Are there any on-line texts or easily accessible texts covering Frankische history between the 16 and 18 hundreds? The von Schott's were very well-connected with children marrying into many titled families. There might be some mention of them. 5) My grandfather was Emil Schott. How can I trace his lineage back when the only information I have is that he might have been born between 1880 and 1895 probably somewhere in Franken, but not necessarily in Erlangen, that he lived in Erlangen, married a Katrina Ertl, served in the first world war, died around 1930-1936 in Erlangen. Any help or information that any of you can provide will be greatly appreciated. My knowledge of German geography, history and recording practices is limited since I grew up in Canada. Elsa Kahler
Date: 2000/02/07 17:00:49
From: DORISR <DORISR(a)aol.com>
Hi I'm new to the list. I'm not sure if I should post this in german or english. I'm just starting to research my family, the following is what I know so far. All died in Germany: Johann Andreas Kirchdoerfer married Sofie Margareta Frank 2/9/1873 in Rothenburg children of Johann and Sofie: Georg Leonhard b. 3/7/1874 Rothenburg m. Anna Barbara Horn 3/4/1904 in Rothenburg Anna Margareta b 3/17/1878 Rothenburg m. Georg Leonhard Heisswolf 4/19/1900 Rothenburg. children of Georg Leonhard and Anna Horn Anna Margareta b 5/2/1908 d 3/4/1996 Switzerland m Richard Hugo Wenzel son of Ludwig Wenzel and Maria Wieland. she married 2nd Paul Joseph Scholz 12/27/1952 in Marktbreit son of Franz Scholz and Ida Schroeter, Schweidnitz. Margarete (Gretle) Linda Willi I don't know how to get more information, does anyone have any suggestions? thanks for your time Doris Rogers
Date: 2000/02/07 18:48:04
From: ruffbj <ruffbj(a)juno.com>
Hello - does anyone have a CD to look up an address in Germany for me? It is Herr Pfarrer Schmitt in Amorbach, B-W, (south of Miltenberg am Main) Would appreciate any help on a phone number and street address, or a list of the Schmitt's in town. Many thanks. Bill Ruff ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Date: 2000/02/07 19:20:52
From: Irmi Gegner-Sünkler <gegner-suenkler(a)gmx.de>
Hello Bill - I hope this will help you - Schmitt, 63916 Amorbach, 09373-3895 Herrn Christian Schmitt, Neudorfer Str. 11, 63916 Amorbach, 09373-4759 Herrn Erich Schmitt, Hintere Gasse 4, 63916 Amorbach, 09373-2552 Herrn Harald Schmitt, Mühlrain 22, 63916 Amorbach, 09373-8831 I. Schmitt, Philosophenweg 9a, 63916 Amorbach, 09373-3337 Herrn Josef Schmitt, Beuchen 17, 63916 Amorbach, 09373-8175 Kind regards - Irmi
Date: 2000/02/08 21:01:48
From: santa-claus <CHummel(a)t-online.de>
Hello Larry, you have to read "Magistrats Rath, Lieutenant unter der National Gard 3ter Classe" That means he was a member (Rat) of the municipality (Stadtrat, Magistrat). National Gard means he was member of a troup like the Nationalgard, nearly every town had its own Buergerwehr (ivil guard to protect the town in war times). S.T. may stand for salvo titulo. In the german version of the MS Lexirom i found this paraphrase: veraltet für mit Vorbehalt des richtigen Titels (in reservation of the correct title). You might better look it up in the american Version. May be they didn't know the right title. Greetings Claus Hummel > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: owner-franken-l(a)genealogy.net > [mailto:owner-franken-l(a)genealogy.net]Im Auftrag von Larry > Mastromatteo > Gesendet am: Donnerstag, 3. Februar 2000 17:44 > An: franken-l(a)genealogy.net > Betreff: Re: Hersbrucker Häuserbuch > > Good Morning: > > At least it is here! > > I have a another couple of questions to all of you > knowledgeable genealogists. > > I just received a marriage transcript in which the following > is written: > > "Der ehrbar u. Kunsterfahrene Johann Pemsel, Bürger und Meister des > Groß und Klien Uhrmacher Handwerks allhier, ein junger Gesell, des S. > T. Herrn Johann Paulaus Pemsel" > > What is the "S. T." short for? What is it's meaning? > > In a death transcript it is written: > > "S.T. Johann Paulus Pemsel Magistrats Rath Lieutenant unter der > National Gard 3ter Classe, Bürger...." > > What would be a "town lieutenant under the national guard"? > > Thanks in advance! > > Sincerely, > > Larry Mastromatteo > Saskatoon, Saskatchewan > Canada >
Date: 2000/02/09 17:56:38
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Claus:Thanks for the information. I found 'salvo titulo' in the German English Geneological Dictionary as 'omitting the title' . Does anyone have any idea what that might mean? I know this person was a lieutenant in the royal Bavarian army. Could he receive some kind of title through the army or could this be something like an educational thing, like a degree today?
Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks again Claus! Best regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/02/09 20:58:46
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Claus:Find below the transcript of the marriage register and below that, the translation:
Trauungen 1818, S. 431, No. 10Der Ehrbar u. Kunsterfahrene Johann Pemsel, Bürger und Meister des Groß und Klein Uhrmacher Handwerks allhier, ein junger Gesell, des S. T. Herrn Johann Paulus Pemsels, Bürgers, Meister des Ehrbaren Schwarz und Schönfärber Handwerks, wie auch erster Lieutenants unter der Grenadier Compagnie allhier, E. Sohn, mit der Ehrbaren und Tungendreichen Jungfr. Helena Elisabetha Juliana, des S.T. Hr. Johann Paulus Zerwick, Canto, Organisten und 11.ten Lehrer der lateinischen Claße allhier E. Tochter. Zeugen waren: H. Johann Jobst Omeis, Schullehrer, zu Engelthal, u. Johann Conrad Held, Büger und Rothgerber allier. getraut: A. D. 11ten May Diacon Osterhausen
Translation: Marriage of 1818, P. 431 #10The honourable and skilled Johann Pemsel, citizen and master watch maker and clockmaker craftsman from Hersbruck first batchelor son of the (S.T.?) Mr. Johann Paulus Pemsel, citizen, master black and colour dyer craftsman and also the First Lieutenant with the grenadier compagne from here and the honourable virtuous virgin Helena Juliana the first daughter of the (S.T.?) Mr. Johann Paulus Zerwick, chiormaster, organist and the 2nd teacher of the latin class from here. Witnesses were: H. Johann Jobst Omeis, school teacher from Engelthal, and Johann Conrad Held, Citizen and red leather tanner from here, married 11th of May, Diacon Osterhausen
I thought maybe if you could see the context - it might help. Any thoughts? Sincerely, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/02/15 14:00:43
From: Pm401kplan <Pm401kplan(a)aol.com>
Hello Everyone: I just received several pages of info from the church in Nüdlingen, all in Latin. Although I can read the Latin, there are some abbreviations with which I am not familiar, such as p.m., S.P., Joe's (or Ioe's). Does anyone know any on-line source of 18th century Latin abbreviations, or a dictionary with old abbreviations. My Latin dictionary is unfortunately of no help with 18th century ecclesiastical Latin! Thank you very much. Paul C. Miller (Researching: Biber, Borst, Hoffmann, Kleinhenz, Müller, Schäfer, Schlereth, Wagenhäuser, Weidmann)
Date: 2000/02/15 17:40:15
From: JDess <JDess(a)aol.com>
Hi Paul, A resource that I have found to be very helpful with the Latin found in German Church records is Ernest Thode's "German English Genealogical Dictionary." I has helped me with he Latin phases as they apply to the old German records as well as some of the old German words I find in some records but not in my German Dictionary. I contains the possible meanings many abbreviations, but German and Latin. P.M. is usually "afternoon," SP could be any of several things depending on the context but one suggestion is "September," and Joes. is the abbreviation for "Joannes" in Latin meaning Johannes in German. I hope this helps you, Joe Dessel Endicott, NY jdess(a)aol.com
Date: 2000/02/15 18:37:35
From: Trudy Lundy <tlundy(a)theofficenet.com>
There is a Latin Word List available at most LDS Family History Centers -- or you can order it from the Salt Lake Distribution Center 1-800-537-5971 for 50 cents it is number 34077. Good luck. Trudy > Hello Everyone: > I just received several pages of info from the church in Nüdlingen, all in > Latin. Although I can read the Latin, there are some abbreviations with > which I am not familiar, such as p.m., S.P., Joe's (or Ioe's). Does anyone > know any on-line source of 18th century Latin abbreviations, or a dictionary > with old abbreviations. My Latin dictionary is unfortunately of no help with > 18th century ecclesiastical Latin! > Thank you very much. > Paul C. Miller > (Researching: Biber, Borst, Hoffmann, Kleinhenz, Müller, Schäfer, Schlereth, > Wagenhäuser, Weidmann)
Date: 2000/02/15 21:48:05
From: Cloudhoper <Cloudhoper(a)aol.com>
An inexpensive ($5.99) paperback Latin/English dictionary by John C. Traupman is a good genealogy helpmate (1988). Earl F. Kisling, San Pablo, CA
Date: 2000/02/15 23:45:53
From: Earl C. Brunner <ebrunner(a)lvcablemodem.com>
Or you can print it at: http://www.familysearch.org/sg/ This is the entire Source Guide and it is yours free. Earl Brunner Las Vegas. Nevada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trudy Lundy" <tlundy(a)theofficenet.com> To: <franken-l(a)genealogy.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 9:39 AM Subject: Re: Church Records in Latin > There is a Latin Word List available at most LDS Family History Centers -- > or you can order it from the Salt Lake Distribution Center 1-800-537-5971 > for 50 cents it is number 34077. > > Good luck. > > Trudy > > > > Hello Everyone: > > I just received several pages of info from the church in Nüdlingen, all in > > Latin. Although I can read the Latin, there are some abbreviations with > > which I am not familiar, such as p.m., S.P., Joe's (or Ioe's). Does > anyone > > know any on-line source of 18th century Latin abbreviations, or a > dictionary > > with old abbreviations. My Latin dictionary is unfortunately of no help > with > > 18th century ecclesiastical Latin! > > Thank you very much. > > Paul C. Miller > > (Researching: Biber, Borst, Hoffmann, Kleinhenz, Müller, Schäfer, > Schlereth, > > Wagenhäuser, Weidmann) >
Date: 2000/02/16 04:38:59
From: Larry Flinner, Jr. <llflinner(a)webtv.net>
Hello Paul, I just found this the other day. Perhaps it might help. It looks like Latin words translated into German. These can then be translated into English if nescessary, through another source. http://home.t-online.de/home/lesaar/ Best Wishes, Larry in ohio llflinner(a)webtv.net ----Original Message---- Hello Everyone: I just received several pages of info from the church in Nüdlingen, all in Latin. . .
Date: 2000/02/16 05:02:57
From: Larry Flinner, Jr. <llflinner(a)webtv.net>
Hello again Paul, For more links to Latin words, you might try: http://www2.genealogy.net/gene/misc/gensig.html This one has a few abbreviations. Be sure to check out the links at the bottom of the page, particularly the FHC link to German words. From there you can find the FHC guide to Latin words. Larry
Date: 2000/02/16 13:33:28
From: Pm401kplan <Pm401kplan(a)aol.com>
Thank you to all who responded to my inquiry for a good source for translation of Latin. Your suggestions were very helpful and greatly appreciated. Paul C. Miller
Date: 2000/02/18 07:27:13
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
Hello Paul,
does this mean your puzzle is solved?
Just in case - and without looking in any source - just guessing:
p.m.: my first shot would be "post mortem" (after the death)
or something with "per ..."
Joe's: what about the name "Josef" or "Josephus"?
S.P.: Could it be that it is S.T.: "Salve Titulo"?
I guess we need the content for better guesses.
Rgds.
Stefan
At 07:32 16.02.00 EST, you wrote:
-------------------------
> Thank you to all who responded to my inquiry for a good source for
> translation of Latin. Your suggestions were very helpful and greatly
> appreciated.
> Paul C. Miller
>
Date: 2000/02/18 13:15:25
From: Pm401kplan <Pm401kplan(a)aol.com>
In a message dated 2/18/00 1:29:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net writes: << does this mean your puzzle is solved? >> Stefan: For the time being. The on-line Latin word lists were helpful, but the dictionary (Thode's) that one of the listers recommended is out of print, so I am attempting to obtain a copy from other sources. Thanks for your interest! Paul
Date: 2000/02/20 04:35:36
From: Larry Flinner, Jr. <llflinner(a)webtv.net>
Hello All, I know that a number of us have been interested in the area of Platz and Geroda, Unterfranken, and have wondered what the term "Platz-Brueckenau" stood for. I recently recieved the info from my Hessen Church Archives researcher in Kassel (my family migrated from Platz, Bayern to nearby Neuengronau, Hessen ca. 1777). The info contained in the Church Death Record of Neuengronau for one of my ancestors sons states that he was born in Platz, District of Brueckenau, Kingdom of Bavaria. So then it appears that there was a district (or county?) named Brueckenau. Did this change with the German Government administrative reforms ca. 1974, or did this change occur prior to 1974? This former "district of Brueckenau" is now a part of "Kreis Bad Kissengen". Can anybody elaborate? Thank You, Larry Flinner, Jr. Holmes Co., Ohio llflinner(a)webtv.net
Date: 2000/02/20 04:52:32
From: Larry Flinner, Jr. <llflinner(a)webtv.net>
The end of my last post should read: [This former "district of Brueckenau" is now a part of "Kreis Bad Kissingen".] not "Kreis Bad Kissengen", as I originally stated. Larry ---------- "I'm too young to feel this old."
Date: 2000/02/25 20:32:19
From: Irmi Gegner-Sünkler <gegner-suenkler(a)gmx.de>
Hallo - meine Vorfahren väterlicherseits kommen aus der Gegend um Preußisch-Eylau in Ostpreussen.. Bislang konnte ich sie in diesem Gebiet bis ca. 1800 (mehr oder weniger) zurückverfolgen. Außer GEGNER treten noch folgende Namen auf : WESTPHAL, MATERN, ANKERMANN und BORM Während der vergangenen Wochen hab' ich versucht, Kontakt zu anderen lebenden Personen mit Namen Gegner aufzunehmen - und alle scheinen ihren Ursprung in der Gegend um Nürnberg zu haben. Ich frage mich nun, ob auch meine Ostreußen-Vorfahren nicht irgendwann von dort gekommen sein könnten. Ist es vielleicht häufiger vorgekommen, daß - möglicherweise im Verlauf des 18. Jahrhunderts - Familien von Franken nach Ostdeutschland umgesiedelt sind ? Ich freue mich über jede Antwort - Irmi
Date: 2000/02/26 16:48:37
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Greetings from Saskatoon:I have another couple of lines I am search and was wondering if anyone had any information or maybe also was searching theses lines.
Hoerl, Herel, Hyrl from Hersbruck, Nuernberg Geusser, Geuser from Hersbruck Thanks Best Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/02/27 10:18:41
From: B. Bauernschmidt <bauernschmidt(a)odn.de>
Hi Larry,
you are asking for the surname HOERL in Hersbruck. The following persons
have this surname from Hersbruck in their databases. Only the normal
post-adresses are known, no email:
1) Mrs. Ellen Schuessler
Daxerstr. 28 d
D-82140 Olching
2) Mrs. Hanna Kuehnlein
Danziger Str. 26
D-90491 Nuernberg
3) Mr. Werner Bub
Staudingerstr. 57
D-81735 Muenchen
Bruno Bauernschmidt
bauernschmidt(a)odn.de
Date: 2000/02/27 11:07:27
From: Hanno Trurnit <h.trurnit(a)t-online.de>
Hallo, Vielleicht kann mir jemand hier weiterhelfen: Ich suche die Vorfahren von Margarethe Barbara Drechsel. Gesichertes Datum: Sie ist in der Geburtsanzeige von Johann Georg Drechsel, geb. 15. Nov. 1843 in Schwabach als ledige Mutter und Feldbesitzerstochter erwähnt. Dank und Gruß Hanno Trurnit Wendelsteinstr. 6 82031 Grünwald Tel. 089 6411181
Date: 2000/02/28 18:27:15
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Bruno:Thanks again for you help! I am going to try today and get letters out to each of the people that you listed. This list has been the best!
Best Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada