Date: 2000/01/02 22:49:21
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Happy New Year Hi Folks:One of the lines I am following is the Drescher line from Neuses am Berg. In the Evangelisch-Lutherischen Marriage Register of 1776 there is a Johann Michael Drescher married to a Anna Margaretha Pappert 30.04.1754. Johann Michael is listed as a "äbtischer Untertan"
I am thinking that this person belonged to a monastery. Does anyone know anything about the kind of life one would live in a monastery and how would a family life fit into the picture? Thanks again.
Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/01/03 00:52:18
From: FOX105 <FOX105(a)aol.com>
That is true. I wrote to the Catholic Church in Bad Bruckenau and they forwarded my letter to Leonard Rugel the local historian .He was able to trace my Schreppler family back to 1700 for a modest fee of 25.00. I know he sent me the correct family has I had bits and pieces of it .I would recommend him to anyone interested in that parish. My family was from Modlos and Bad Bruckenau.Nothing has really been filmed in that area. Gerry in Ma
Date: 2000/01/03 01:46:40
From: Jim Amaral <jamaral(a)columbus.rr.com>
the only caveat is that Herr Rugel is neither fast nor complete. I'm still waiting for data from a couple years ago. My Modlas family (Müller) was here when I returned home. My Motten (Link) still hasn't arrived. Time for a nudge? Helps that he had the Modlas in his house, and that the current Burgermeister was also of the same Müller family. (descended from a half-brother; I assume the wife died birthing our guy; all the others had a different mother) BTW, the archive in Würzburg is doing their own filming and has messed it up several times already. Sooner or later they will get to Modlas, etc. but claim that they will not let the Mormons help, and that you will have to come to them to see the films.) JimA (in OH) FOX105(a)aol.com wrote: > That is true. I wrote to the Catholic Church in Bad Bruckenau and they > forwarded my letter to Leonard Rugel the local historian .He was able to > trace my Schreppler family back to 1700 for a modest fee of 25.00. I know he > sent me the correct family has I had bits and pieces of it .I would recommend > him to anyone interested in that parish. My family was from Modlos and Bad > Bruckenau.Nothing has really been filmed in that area. > Gerry in Ma
Date: 2000/01/03 01:56:28
From: FOX105 <FOX105(a)aol.com>
Jim, I must have lucked out because both times he responded in less then 2 weeks. He sent information before I even sent a payment. Question? Are the archives for Modlas in Wurzburg? Thanks Gerry in Ma
Date: 2000/01/03 03:58:26
From: Jim Amaral <jamaral(a)columbus.rr.com>
Yes, but the information isn't there! They are the ones who sent me to the parish to speak to the priest. He was suppossed to be in Oberleichtersbach, but in fact, lived in Shondra. He has 5 parish churches in his custody. He told me about Herr Rugel. The parish for Motten was to get a new priest the next week, but he was still in transit. Rugel didn't have his books, was to travel there for me. Probably need to light a fire! We're probably related! Modlas only has a couple hundred people living there! Ours left in 1853. Johann Georg Müller. was in NW Ohio paying taxes by the end of 1854! JimA FOX105(a)aol.com wrote: > Jim, > I must have lucked out because both times he responded in less then 2 > weeks. He sent information before I even sent a payment. > Question? Are the archives for Modlas in Wurzburg? > Thanks > Gerry in Ma
Date: 2000/01/03 04:29:13
From: Warren and Vera Distler <warren(a)evansville.net>
I would be most interested in being able to trace the military records of my Gr-Gr-Grandfather who came to the US in 1853 at the age or 30 from Germany. He was born in 1823 in Unterleinleiter Ober Franken. He also inlisted in the US Union Army's Illinois Volunteer Cavalry 14th Regiment and was elected Captain of his Company (B). Prior to his stint in the 14th he had originally been assigned to the HDQ of the 11th Cavalry and held the rank of Sgt. Major. All this leads me to believe he must have had previous military experience back in Germany. Could anyone be able to take a guess as to which service and or regiment people from his area of Upper Franken would have inlisted and/or where I might be able to trace his history?
Date: 2000/01/03 04:52:31
From: Earl C. Brunner <ebrunner(a)lvcablemodem.com>
The name SCHREPPLER interest me as I have the name SCHREPFER from Bamberg area and have not been able to find much on them. I find only the marriage of Maria Eva SCHREPFER to Johann Goerg Ludwig SEEBALD on the Bamberg Index. Earl Brunner ----- Original Message ----- From: <FOX105(a)aol.com> To: <franken-l(a)genealogy.net> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 4:17 PM Subject: Re: Leinach Parish Registers > That is true. I wrote to the Catholic Church in Bad Bruckenau and they > forwarded my letter to Leonard Rugel the local historian .He was able to > trace my Schreppler family back to 1700 for a modest fee of 25.00. I know he > sent me the correct family has I had bits and pieces of it .I would recommend > him to anyone interested in that parish. My family was from Modlos and Bad > Bruckenau.Nothing has really been filmed in that area. > Gerry in Ma >
Date: 2000/01/03 05:25:55
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 2 Jan 00, at 16:14, Larry Mastromatteo wrote: > Happy New Year > > Hi Folks: > > One of the lines I am following is the Drescher line from Neuses am > Berg. In the Evangelisch-Lutherischen Marriage Register of 1776 there > is a Johann Michael Drescher married to a Anna Margaretha Pappert > 30.04.1754. Johann Michael is listed as a "äbtischer Untertan" > > I am thinking that this person belonged to a monastery. Does anyone > know anything about the kind of life one would live in a monastery and > how would a family life fit into the picture? Thanks again. I'm short on Material here as which Abbey this person was a subject of but basically nothing would be different for him there as any other place. The farmers farmed and paid their dues just like any other subject in some other principality. Remember the Abbeys were little countries too. Fred 4788 Corian Court Naples, FL 34114 941-775-7838 Fred(a)compu.com
Date: 2000/01/03 15:56:40
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Fred: Can you elaborate on " The farmers farmed and paid their dues just like any other subject in some other principality. Remember the Abbeys were little countries too." The farmers paid their dues to the Abby? What do you mean by "Abbeys were little countries too." Would you know of any reading material on the subject?When I think of a Abbey - I think of a huge building that monks would live in by themselves. They would not be married. They would not have children. They would give their life to God - Praying all day and night.
Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/01/03 16:45:21
From: B. Bauernschmidt <bauernschmidt(a)odn.de>
Hi Larry, you are asking for an 'äbtischen Untertan'. This does not mean, that this person lived in a monastery. The fact is, that a monastery had the dominion of this person, he was the subject of the monastery. He had to pay his tax to the monastery. In Germany, especially in Franconia, in former times there existed very many dominions at the same time. One people in a village was, for example, Untertan (subject) of the bishop of Wuerzburg, but his neighbour was the subject of a monastery. The knowledge of the dominon can be important to find out the ancestors. Bruno Bauernschmidt bauernschmidt(a)odn.de
Date: 2000/01/03 17:26:51
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Bruno: This is starting to make more sense now. Thanks Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/01/03 21:20:46
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Bruno: Is äbtischer Untertan the same as a Klosteruntertan? You wrote "The knowledge of the dominon can be important to find out the ancestors." How does one find the dominion?I know that Johann Michael Drescher was from Neuses a Berg (Part of Dettelbach), Unterfranken, Bayern.
Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/01/04 02:13:05
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 3 Jan 00, at 9:21, Larry Mastromatteo wrote: > Hi Fred: > > Can you elaborate on " The farmers farmed and paid their dues just > like any other subject in some other principality. Remember the Abbeys > were little countries too." > > The farmers paid their dues to the Abby? Yes in the form of fees, taxes, labor or goods. > What do you mean by "Abbeys were little countries too." Exactly that. Just like dioceses often had Prince-Bishops or Archbishops as their temporal heads of state, so did many abbeys. In my genealogy I have the Von Geismar family which includes two Reichsabteifürsten or prince-abbots of the Abbey of Werden which was founded by St Luidger who was also the first bishop of Münster not long after the year 800. These abbot-princes had a direct relationship to the emperor who was their immediate protector. They owned religious allegiance to the nearest archbishop in this case the Prince-Archbishop of Cologne. But in essence they managed their own affairs without the involvement of others in their territory. You need to know that these abbeyes were funded over time by well meaning lords and noble people who gave them land and assigfned them various rights to collect the tithe or other income from farms and villages in varying and not necessarily contiguous territories. Most of these 'countries' were dissolved by their more powerful temporal neighbors near the end of the 18th and the beginning of the 19th centuries. > Would you know of any reading material on the subject? It's history and buried in the general manorial system of Europe. > When I think of a Abbey - I think of a huge building that monks would > live in by themselves. They would not be married. They would not have > children. They would give their life to God - Praying all day and > night. Well, you are making the typical mistake by extemporizing your knowledge of current life to that of the past. That's always a dangerous path as the past was then and now is now. :-) These are different sets of life and knowledge. The whole history of the Church used to be different. A reformation came and Luther was a monk who didn't like the decadent system that existed back then. He liked to have female companionship just like all the other monks but he thought marriage was a more proper avenue toward this human need. Lets just say that life in a monastery was not what it is today back in the late middle ages. All of this needs to be looked at by time and place to find out the real situation. Fred 4788 Corian Court Naples, FL 34114 941-775-7838 Fred(a)compu.com
Date: 2000/01/04 12:14:47
From: FOX105 <FOX105(a)aol.com>
The names I am researching from Modlas are Schreppler,Breitenbach,Rust,Habermann,Schneider.Schreppler was there in 1700"s.My ggrandfather was born in 1855 and left in 1882. If I run across any Mullers will keep you in mind. Gerry in Ma
Date: 2000/01/05 00:38:36
From: gerald KISABETH <geraldkisabeth(a)hotmail.com>
In researching my old family name Küschwert I find that the name became Küspert and Kisseberth(when in the 16th century a descendent moved to the Hessen area.) I find many instances where the names Küspert and Kispert are used interchangably in earlier Oberfranken records.
My question:Are the 2 surnames pronounced very similiar- Küspert(Kuespert) and Kispert ? In your opinion do you think that these 2 names Küspert and Kispert are from the same origin?
Please send your comments and opinions, PLEASE. Also please state your German language background, I may need your name as a source.
I thank everyone so much. Gerald Kisabeth ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 2000/01/05 15:20:51
From: Alexander Gipp <alexander.gipp(a)gmx.de>
Hallo ich würde mich über alle Hinweise zum Namen KÜMMEL sehr freuen vielen Dank Alexander Gipp -- Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net
Date: 2000/01/05 20:22:15
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Fred:Thanks for the great explanation! Have you been able to take your Genealogy back to 800. I'm impressed.
Excuse my ignorance but this is something I'm learning. Would it be far fetched to conclude that Johann Michael Trescher was catholic or were these Monks Lutheran. Is there such a thing as a Lutheran Monk. I went to a catholic school and was taught about catholicism but the sisters and the brothers never got into Lutherism. I wonder why?
So now I need a lesson in religion. Thanks for your help. Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/01/06 16:00:02
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 5 Jan 00, at 13:22, Larry Mastromatteo wrote: > Hi Fred: > > Thanks for the great explanation! Have you been able to take your > Genealogy back to 800. I'm impressed. No, no - I'm not that gullible. The Abbey of Werden was founded during those early years of German Christianity. The von Geismars were not in charge of the place until sometime the middle ages. I don't have the exact dates in front of me. I have other direct noble and patrician lines which do go back to 1100 something though. Once you tap into a noble house you can usually do that as they have their own charts which may or may not be true. But it's like the rest of the game we play - we always hope the father was always the one the mother said it was. I'm sure lots of fibs have been told in the past and we are all persuing the wrong genetic lines. :-) > Excuse my ignorance but this is something I'm learning. Would it be > far fetched to conclude that Johann Michael Trescher was catholic or > were these Monks Lutheran. Is there such a thing as a Lutheran Monk. I > went to a catholic school and was taught about catholicism but the > sisters and the brothers never got into Lutherism. I wonder why? The presumption would be RC. My company used to be in the church software business and I went to many a convention of national Church bodies. The wierdest one of all was the Anglican or Episcopalian one. There one could find all the old orders of the RC Church - the nuns and monks of the Franciscans, Benedictines and on and one. There was one major difference though, they'd be walking around as couples hand in hand. I too was brought up in Catholic school and the sight was on the edge of unbelievable. It's what Henry VIII started though and it exists to this day. I still have this image in my head of monk and nun, barefoot in sandals, but otherwise in full regalia, walking hand in hand and stopping by our booth. It was quite a picture. :-) > So now I need a lesson in religion. Let's just say that the customs are human and humans can do the strangest of things. Fred 4788 Corian Court Naples, FL 34114 941-775-7838 Fred(a)compu.com
Date: 2000/01/11 21:35:28
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Happy new year: I am having a letter translated but am having a bit of trouble. What are the German words for: second cousin and second cousin once removed.Is the child of a second cousin referred by the second cousin as a niece or a cousin?
What is the proper terminology? Thanks. Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/01/12 01:37:49
From: Irmi Gegner-Sünkler <gegner-suenkler(a)gmx.de>
Hallo - ich bin ganz neu in der Liste und möchte mich erst einmal vorstellen. Ich bin Irmi und wohne in Oldenburg - Norddeutschland. Ursprünglich komme ich aus Bremen (auch Norddeutschland:-))) . Seit einigen Monaten beschäftige ich mich mit Ahnenforschung und im Moment damit, meine Vorfahren väterlicherseits herauszufinden. Ich weiß inzwischen, daß diese aus dem ehemaligen Ostpreußen - genauer aus der Gegend um Landsberg/Preußisch-Eylau (nicht weit von Königsberg) stammen. Es gibt in Deutschland nicht so viele GEGNER. Auffällig ist, daß dieser Name rund um Nürnberg häufiger auftaucht - und ich würde gern wissen, ob es da eine Verbindung gibt. Mein Großvater hieß KARL LUDWIG GEGNER und wurde am 25.7.1886 in Landsberg geboren.Er fiel im 1.Weltkrieg. Er soll noch 8 Geschwister gehabt haben. Seine Eltern (meine Urgroßeltern) waren : LEOPOLD GEGNER (geb. 17.10.1855 in Landsberg - gest. 30.5.1928 in Bremen) und THERESE WESTPHAL (geb.18.4.1853 in Landsberg - gest. 31.1.1945 in Bremen). Die Eltern von Leopold Gegner waren : LUDWIG GEGNER und FRIEDERICKE MATERN. Die Eltern von Therese Westphal : KARL WESTPHAL und JOHANNA ANKERMANN. Die Eltern von Friedericke Matern : CARL MATERN und MARIA BORM. Gibt es jemanden, der sich auch mit dem Namen GEGNER oder einem der anderen Namen beschäftigt ? Ich bin dankbar für jeden Hinweis. Viele Grüße - Irmi
Date: 2000/01/12 14:56:15
From: JBKITT <JBKITT(a)email.msn.com>
Irmi, (............ fuhr auf Deutsch unten fort.) I was very interested to read that someone else is searching the Gegner family. I am a Gegner from the United States. My Gegners came here in the middle 1800's. My father traced our family back to Uehfeld, Mittelfranken, Bayern. I don't know if this will help but there are many Gegners listed in http://www.familysearch.org. Half of the Gegners in there are from Prussia. You might want to take a look. You will have to pardon me for writing this in English. I don't speak German and had to translate your post using www.altavista.com. I do not know if this will help but I will translate this letter into German using altavista. Altavista translates things literally but it might help you get the gist of this letter at least. Betty Ich war sehr interessiert, zu lesen, daß jemand anderes die Familie Gegner sucht. Ich bin ein Gegner von den Vereinigten Staaten. Mein Gegners kam hier in das mittlere mein Vater 1800's. verfolgte unsere Familie zurück zu Uehfeld, Mittelfranken, Bayern. Ich weiß nicht, wenn dieses hilft, aber es viel Gegners gibt, das in http://www.familysearch.org ausgedruckt wird. Hälfte des Gegners innen dort sind von Prussia. Sie konnten einen Blick nehmen wünschen. Sie werden müssen Entschuldigung ich für das Schreiben dieses auf englisch. Ich spreche nicht deutsch und mußte Ihren Pfosten mit www.altavista.com übersetzen. Ich weiß nicht, wenn dieses hilft, aber ich dieses Zeichen in deutsches verwendendes altavista übersetze. Altavista übersetzt Sachen buchstäblich, aber es konnte Ihnen helfen, das gist dieses Zeichens mindestens zu erhalten. Betty
Date: 2000/01/13 00:26:38
From: Karl Federschmidt <karl(a)feder.wupper.de>
Hi Larry, Is it a letter you have received - or a letter you want to send? If you are writing yourself: You should not speak too much about "Cousins (or: Cousinen) zweiten Grades", because (at least in common, colloquial language) that word can cover more or less all the relationships derived from cousins. Better explain with a few more words (as you have done, indeed) what you are meaning: "Die Tochter des Cousins". Karl -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca> An: franken-l(a)genealogy.net <franken-l(a)genealogy.net> Datum: Dienstag, 11. Januar 2000 21:40 Betreff: Cousins >Happy new year: > >I am having a letter translated but am having a bit of trouble. > >What are the German words for: second cousin and second cousin once removed. > >Is the child of a second cousin referred by the second cousin as a >niece or a cousin? > >What is the proper terminology? > >Thanks. > >Larry Mastromatteo >Saskatoon, Saskatchewan >Canada >
Date: 2000/01/13 12:51:51
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
Hello Everybody. Does somebody know, whether there was somewhen a census in Franken or somewhere else in Bavaria? If yes: Where would the records be available? Best Regards, Stefan Probst
Date: 2000/01/13 15:42:42
From: Irmi Gegner-Sünkler <gegner-suenkler(a)gmx.de>
Hello Betty - thank you for your writing. You are the first 'GEGNER' I meet who isn't a memeber of my family !!!!!! I had a look a the website - you are right : there are some Gegners who come from Preußisch-Eylau, exactly where my ancestors come from - maybe that someone belongs to my ancestors, but I don't know yet. Do you know who made this list ? I am wondering if there may be someone I can contact. What about the Gegners in Franken and Bayern - is there any connection to the Gegners in Ostpreussen ? By the way - I understand Engslish, so you don't have to write in German ! Many regards - Irmi >
Date: 2000/01/13 16:18:56
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Karl:Thanks for the information. When translating from one language to another, at times it gets confusing.
Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/01/13 17:03:04
From: JBKITT <JBKITT(a)email.msn.com>
>You are the first 'GEGNER' I meet who isn't a >member of my family !!!!!! Oh my, there are lots of Gegners in Ohio and Iowa, USA, but I am related to all of them in some way. My line of Gegners all seemed to have lots of children, who had lots of children, and so on. :-) I even have copies of 14 letters a George Gegner wrote to his girlfriend while he served here in the Civil War. The originals are kept at the University of North Carolina. I'm sure I am related to him in some way but we haven't figured it out yet. And while researching Gegners, my father discovered a few Gegners from the middle 1800's buried in a cemetary just 5 minutes from where we live. >I had a look a the website - you are right : there >are some Gegners who come from Preußisch-Eylau, exactly where my ancestors come >from - maybe that someone belongs to my ancestors, but I don't know yet. Do you >know who made this list ? I am wondering if there may be someone I can contact. > I don't know who made the list but usually if you hit on a name, at the very bottom of the information it will say "submitter" and you might be able to click on their name to send email to them. >What about the Gegners in Franken and Bayern - is there any connection to the >Gegners in Ostpreussen ? My Dad traced our "direct" line of Gegners to 1795 Uehlfeld, and then I was able to trace them back to the late 1600's using www.familysearch.org but I don't know how accurate that information is. My direct line all came from Uehlfeld but you never know, some brothers, sisters, etc might have moved on to Ostpreussen and had children who had children, etc. My Dad's friends visited Uehlfeld a few years back and brought back an advertisement for a Gegner Bakery there. They talked to the people who owned it, and they came from my line of Gegners (Gegner-Zwanzger). >By the way - I understand Engslish, so you don't have to write in German ! I felt so funny attempting to translate into German but I'm sure it gave you a good laugh trying to read it! :-) Take care, Betty
Date: 2000/01/13 22:52:11
From: Pete Probst <peteprobst(a)rmplc.co.uk>
Stephan I am interested in your searches in Franken. My Probst research comes to a stop with my ggfather, Johann Martin Probst. ~ Johann Martin Probst was born in 12 April1827, in Heilsbronn, near Ansbach. ~ His first marriage was with Eva Margaretha Rößler, born 31. March 1842, on 13 February 1870. Their first child was Johannes Jacob Probst, (my gfather) born on 6 August 1871, She died during the next birth. (6 December 1873) ~ His second marriage was 5 July 1874 with Anna Rosina Endlein, born on 13 March 1838 in Haundorf, she died on the 20 March 1886. ~ He married his third wife on 1 May 1887, Sybilla Elisabetha Salzner, born 12 April 1836 in Würzburg, she died 22.1.1911. ~ Johann Martin Probst died 23 March 1907, in Schillingsfürst. I have no contacts with any of the above people. If you turn up anything of interest I would be grateful. I have some GGF archive information which Bruno Bauernschmidt kindly sent me which contain references to several Probsts as far back as 1600 in Bavaria. All the best Pete Probst peteprobst(a)rmplc.co.uk
Date: 2000/01/14 05:08:52
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
Hello Pete,
I am aware of you ;-). I know of several Probst's in the States, but you
are the only one in GB...
I know about your Schillingsfürst. It is actually very close to the area,
where I have ancestors. Unfortunately from other names.
My father's ancestors (both of his parents) come only from a very small
area North of Ingolstadt. I have (at least not until now) no Probsts in
Franken.
In Franken I have lots of ancestors in
- Stadtsteinach (Upper Franconia): MANY NAMES!
Anybody searching in that area might contact me.
Furthermore I have many in the triangle between Dinkelsbühl, Ansbach, and
Gunzenzhausen.
Villages of interest there are:
- Dürrwangen: RIEDMüLLER, TRANER, SCHWAGER, HÄFFNER, KNOLL,
RATHGEBER, WEISS,
- Oberstelzhausen: SCHALK,
- Großlellenfeld: HERTLE, EMMENDÖRFER,
- Eierlohe
- Neuses (unfortunately I found until now 4 Neuses in that area,
but don't know which one is it....):
LECHNER, RITZER
- Aurach: LEIS,
- Weinberg: RAMER,
- Kronheim (Cronheim): WEISS,
- Ornbau: MAIER, WÃœRTH,
- Stopfenheim: NASS,
- Goldbühl: KEMPF
So, that was my update to the list ;-)
If I should come across a Probst in this area, I will contact you.
Best Regards,
Stefan
At 21:48 13.01.00 -0000, you wrote:
-------------------------
> Stephan
> I am interested in your searches in Franken. My Probst research comes to
a
> stop with my ggfather, Johann Martin Probst.
>
> ~ Johann Martin Probst was born in 12 April1827, in Heilsbronn, near
> Ansbach.
> ~ His first marriage was with Eva Margaretha Rößler, born 31. March 1842,
> on 13 February 1870. Their first child was Johannes Jacob Probst, (my
> gfather) born on 6 August 1871, She died during the next birth. (6
December
> 1873)
> ~ His second marriage was 5 July 1874 with Anna Rosina Endlein,
> born on 13 March 1838 in Haundorf, she died on the 20 March 1886.
> ~ He married his third wife on 1 May 1887, Sybilla Elisabetha Salzner,
born
> 12 April 1836 in Würzburg, she died 22.1.1911.
> ~ Johann Martin Probst died 23 March 1907, in Schillingsfürst.
>
> I have no contacts with any of the above people.
>
> If you turn up anything of interest I would be grateful. I have some GGF
> archive information which Bruno Bauernschmidt kindly sent me which
contain
> references to several Probsts as far back as 1600 in Bavaria.
>
> All the best
> Pete Probst
> peteprobst(a)rmplc.co.uk
>
>
>
Date: 2000/01/14 16:11:17
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Stefan:In Fränkische Ahnen Band 3 Evangelisch-Lutherischen Kirchengemeinde Neuses am Berg 1651-1900 There is one Lechner, Johann George Hs.Nr. 13, * in Repperndorf Died Burried 15./17.07.1873, Schlagfluß, 76/9/5
There is no Ritzer in this book and only the one Lechner Best Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/01/15 07:36:50
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
Hi Larry, thanks for looking up in that book. Since you are the "Neuses-am-Berg Specialist": Could you give me pls. a short hint, where this Neuses am Berg is? My Lechner in whatever Neuses is: Lechner Maria Katharina, b. 05.10.1785 in Neuses father: Lechner Michael mother: Ritzer Walburga married on 24.11.1807 in Aurach: Johann(es) Hertle, b. 24.06.1775 in Eierlohe. So, it is a bit ;-) earlier than the ones that you found. Anyway. Have a nice weekend! Stefan At 09:11 14.01.00 -0600, you wrote: ------------------------- > Hi Stefan: > > In Fränkische Ahnen Band 3 Evangelisch-Lutherischen Kirchengemeinde > Neuses am Berg 1651-1900 There is one Lechner, Johann George Hs.Nr. > 13, * in Repperndorf Died Burried 15./17.07.1873, Schlagfluß, 76/9/5 > > There is no Ritzer in this book and only the one Lechner > > Best Regards, > Larry Mastromatteo > Saskatoon, Saskatchewan > Canada >
Date: 2000/01/15 22:24:02
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Stephan:I have "Neuses-am-Berg as part of Dettlebach, Unterfranken. Just north of Kitzingen.
Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/01/16 13:16:52
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
Hello All, in Bavaria it is usual to print so-called "Sterbe-bildchen" when somebody has died and hand them out e.g. during the funeral. I have here copies of such Sterbe-bildchen from 1897 on. I don't know, when this habit started, and whether it would be a useful source for genealogical data. The Sterbe-bildchen are small enough that they fit into a prayer book and contain, besides the name and the death date, all or some of the following data: - profession - birthdate and place - maybe a photograph - a hint about the reason of the death (e.g. "after long illness") They start with something like "To pious commemoration of Ms.....", followed by the a.m. data and then some prayers. I checked my dictionaries here, but didn't find something suitable. How is / or would be something like this called in English? Regards, Stefan
Date: 2000/01/16 16:09:38
From: E. J. HERTERICK <EJSMAPS(a)worldnet.att.net>
Wolfgang Fred Rump wrote: > > On 5 Jan 00, at 13:22, Larry Mastromatteo wrote: > > > Hi Fred: > > > > Thanks for the great explanation! Have you been able to take your > > Genealogy back to 800. I'm impressed. > > No, no - I'm not that gullible. The Abbey of Werden was founded > during those early years of German Christianity. The von Geismars > were not in charge of the place until sometime the middle ages. I > don't have the exact dates in front of me. I have other direct noble > and patrician lines which do go back to 1100 something though. > Once you tap into a noble house you can usually do that as they > have their own charts which may or may not be true. But it's like > the rest of the game we play - we always hope the father was > always the one the mother said it was. I'm sure lots of fibs have > been told in the past and we are all persuing the wrong genetic > lines. :-) > > > Excuse my ignorance but this is something I'm learning. Would it be > > far fetched to conclude that Johann Michael Trescher was catholic or > > were these Monks Lutheran. Is there such a thing as a Lutheran Monk. I > > went to a catholic school and was taught about catholicism but the > > sisters and the brothers never got into Lutherism. I wonder why? > > The presumption would be RC. My company used to be in the > church software business and I went to many a convention of > national Church bodies. The wierdest one of all was the Anglican or > Episcopalian one. There one could find all the old orders of the RC > Church - the nuns and monks of the Franciscans, Benedictines > and on and one. There was one major difference though, they'd be > walking around as couples hand in hand. I too was brought up in > Catholic school and the sight was on the edge of unbelievable. It's > what Henry VIII started though and it exists to this day. > > I still have this image in my head of monk and nun, barefoot in > sandals, but otherwise in full regalia, walking hand in hand and > stopping by our booth. It was quite a picture. :-) > > > So now I need a lesson in religion. > > Let's just say that the customs are human and humans can do the > strangest of things. > > Fred > > 4788 Corian Court > Naples, FL 34114 > 941-775-7838 > Fred(a)compu.com Enjoyed this bit about the nuns amd monks. I can understand how this can happen since not all are priests and might not take vovs of celibacy. I'd would have nightmares of this scence too if I saw it. As I search for family ties in Germany I become more aware of the Lutheran RC trauma. My name is HERTERICH there is a fountain In Rothenberg dedicated to Herterich's but there are no Herterichs in Rothenberg. I have a feeling the archivists are going to change the name because too many inquires about the fountain and their explaination for it's title. ej
Date: 2000/01/18 14:55:20
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
Hello Marcella, your http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/faq.htm is a very nice site, and a treasure bookmark for every old or new Bavarian genealogist. A few "entry links", but IMHO you selected exactly the good ones, that lead to more depth, depending how much time somebody wants to spend with strolling around the web. I found several new things there. Thanks! Answered is e.g. the question about the census, that was here some weeks ago, and where no answer was available. It is quite the content that I thought of. Maybe our newbies can suggest, what they found difficult or missing.... The only difference is the form. I thought about a text, that can be mailed (like the FAQ in your last link), but more condensed, shorter, with only the most important info about Bavarian Genealogy. I don't know whether everybody here on the list has easily access to the web, or whether people are limited to e-mail. If so, then we should look, whether it is possible to summarize your site into a text. But before that, maybe we can have feedback: Can everybody access the web, or is it necessary to have a text-only version, that can be mailed? Technically it could be done as a so-called Autoresponder. i.e. people who are interested, would send a request-mail to that Autoresponder which in return would send the text back. Once again: Congratulations for your "Gen-Vademecum"! Stefan P.S.: All the nice people who ansered about my "Sterbe-bildchen": I will come back about that in a few days. Thanks a lot for now! At 06:27 18.01.00 -0600, Marcella wrote: ------------------------- > The first draft of the Bavaria FAQ, discussed in December, is posted at: > > > http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/faq.htm > > I would appreciate feedback and suggestions for other questions and > appropriate links. As I understood Stefan's suggestion, the page should be > limited to information a new researcher would need. > Thanks. > Marcella Dawson > Marcella Dawson > dawsonm(a)hal-pc.org > > http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/webindex.htm > >
Date: 2000/01/18 15:20:40
From: Pat Conner <pawnee(a)qnet.com>
Good Morning, When I go to this site, I get the message ERROR PAGE NOT FOUND??? Pat Stefan Probst wrote: > > Hello Marcella, > > your http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/faq.htm > > is a very nice site, and a treasure bookmark for every old or new Bavarian > genealogist. A few "entry links", but IMHO you selected exactly the good > ones, that lead to more depth, depending how much time somebody wants to > spend with strolling around the web. I found several new things there. > Thanks! > > Answered is e.g. the question about the census, that was here some weeks > ago, and where no answer was available. > > It is quite the content that I thought of. Maybe our newbies can suggest, > what they found difficult or missing.... > > The only difference is the form. I thought about a text, that can be mailed > (like the FAQ in your last link), but more condensed, shorter, with only > the most important info about Bavarian Genealogy. I don't know whether > everybody here on the list has easily access to the web, or whether people > are limited to e-mail. If so, then we should look, whether it is possible > to summarize your site into a text. > > But before that, maybe we can have feedback: > Can everybody access the web, or is it necessary to have a text-only > version, that can be mailed? > > Technically it could be done as a so-called Autoresponder. i.e. people who > are interested, would send a request-mail to that Autoresponder which in > return would send the text back. > > Once again: Congratulations for your "Gen-Vademecum"! > > Stefan > > P.S.: > All the nice people who ansered about my "Sterbe-bildchen": > I will come back about that in a few days. Thanks a lot for now! > > At 06:27 18.01.00 -0600, Marcella wrote: > ------------------------- > > The first draft of the Bavaria FAQ, discussed in December, is posted at: > > > > > > http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/faq.htm > > > > I would appreciate feedback and suggestions for other questions and > > appropriate links. As I understood Stefan's suggestion, the page should > be > > limited to information a new researcher would need. > > Thanks. > > Marcella Dawson > > Marcella Dawson > > dawsonm(a)hal-pc.org > > > > http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/webindex.htm > > > >
Date: 2000/01/19 08:37:02
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
Yep, it seems there are some problems. Some people get errors, while others can access the site without any problem. From those who can access it, it got very good marks. I am in contact with Marcella already. Could be that some of the used "style sheet HTML" is not understood/accepted by some (older?) browsers. We'll come back, when the problems are sorted out. Rgds. Stefan At 06:25 18.01.00 -0800, you wrote: ------------------------- > Good Morning, > When I go to this site, I get the message ERROR PAGE NOT FOUND??? > Pat > > Stefan Probst wrote: > > > > Hello Marcella, > > > > your http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/faq.htm > > > > is a very nice site, and a treasure bookmark for every old or new Bavarian > > genealogist. A few "entry links", but IMHO you selected exactly the good > > ones, that lead to more depth, depending how much time somebody wants to > > spend with strolling around the web. I found several new things there. > > Thanks! > > > > Answered is e.g. the question about the census, that was here some weeks > > ago, and where no answer was available. > > > > It is quite the content that I thought of. Maybe our newbies can suggest, > > what they found difficult or missing.... > > > > The only difference is the form. I thought about a text, that can be mailed > > (like the FAQ in your last link), but more condensed, shorter, with only > > the most important info about Bavarian Genealogy. I don't know whether > > everybody here on the list has easily access to the web, or whether people > > are limited to e-mail. If so, then we should look, whether it is possible > > to summarize your site into a text. > > > > But before that, maybe we can have feedback: > > Can everybody access the web, or is it necessary to have a text-only > > version, that can be mailed? > > > > Technically it could be done as a so-called Autoresponder. i.e. people who > > are interested, would send a request-mail to that Autoresponder which in > > return would send the text back. > > > > Once again: Congratulations for your "Gen-Vademecum"! > > > > Stefan > > > > P.S.: > > All the nice people who ansered about my "Sterbe-bildchen": > > I will come back about that in a few days. Thanks a lot for now! > > > > At 06:27 18.01.00 -0600, Marcella wrote: > > ------------------------- > > > The first draft of the Bavaria FAQ, discussed in December, is posted at: > > > > > > > > > http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/faq.htm > > > > > > I would appreciate feedback and suggestions for other questions and > > > appropriate links. As I understood Stefan's suggestion, the page should > > be > > > limited to information a new researcher would need. > > > Thanks. > > > Marcella Dawson > > > Marcella Dawson > > > dawsonm(a)hal-pc.org > > > > > > http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/webindex.htm > > > > > > >
Date: 2000/01/19 12:57:31
From: Jim Amaral <jamaral(a)columbus.rr.com>
Not older browser. Netscape Communicator 4.7 on a cable modem. file not found. Stefan Probst wrote: > Yep, it seems there are some problems. Some people get errors, while others > can access the site without any problem. From those who can access it, it > got very good marks. > I am in contact with Marcella already. Could be that some of the used > "style sheet HTML" is not understood/accepted by some (older?) browsers. > We'll come back, when the problems are sorted out. > Rgds. > Stefan > > At 06:25 18.01.00 -0800, you wrote: > ------------------------- > > Good Morning, > > When I go to this site, I get the message ERROR PAGE NOT FOUND??? > > Pat > > > > Stefan Probst wrote: > > > > > > Hello Marcella, > > > > > > your http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/faq.htm > > > > > > is a very nice site, and a treasure bookmark for every old or new > Bavarian > > > genealogist. A few "entry links", but IMHO you selected exactly the > good > > > ones, that lead to more depth, depending how much time somebody wants > to > > > spend with strolling around the web. I found several new things there. > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Answered is e.g. the question about the census, that was here some > weeks > > > ago, and where no answer was available. > > > > > > It is quite the content that I thought of. Maybe our newbies can > suggest, > > > what they found difficult or missing.... > > > > > > The only difference is the form. I thought about a text, that can be > mailed > > > (like the FAQ in your last link), but more condensed, shorter, with > only > > > the most important info about Bavarian Genealogy. I don't know whether > > > everybody here on the list has easily access to the web, or whether > people > > > are limited to e-mail. If so, then we should look, whether it is > possible > > > to summarize your site into a text. > > > > > > But before that, maybe we can have feedback: > > > Can everybody access the web, or is it necessary to have a text-only > > > version, that can be mailed? > > > > > > Technically it could be done as a so-called Autoresponder. i.e. people > who > > > are interested, would send a request-mail to that Autoresponder which > in > > > return would send the text back. > > > > > > Once again: Congratulations for your "Gen-Vademecum"! > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > P.S.: > > > All the nice people who ansered about my "Sterbe-bildchen": > > > I will come back about that in a few days. Thanks a lot for now! > > > > > > At 06:27 18.01.00 -0600, Marcella wrote: > > > ------------------------- > > > > The first draft of the Bavaria FAQ, discussed in December, is posted > at: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/faq.htm > > > > > > > > I would appreciate feedback and suggestions for other questions and > > > > appropriate links. As I understood Stefan's suggestion, the page > should > > > be > > > > limited to information a new researcher would need. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Marcella Dawson > > > > Marcella Dawson > > > > dawsonm(a)hal-pc.org > > > > > > > > http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/webindex.htm > > > > > > > > > >
Date: 2000/01/19 14:41:41
From: Pat Conner <pawnee(a)qnet.com>
Stefan, Thanks! I'll watch for it! Pat Stefan Probst wrote: > > Yep, it seems there are some problems. Some people get errors, while others > can access the site without any problem. From those who can access it, it > got very good marks. > I am in contact with Marcella already. Could be that some of the used > "style sheet HTML" is not understood/accepted by some (older?) browsers. > We'll come back, when the problems are sorted out. > Rgds. > Stefan > > At 06:25 18.01.00 -0800, you wrote: > ------------------------- > > Good Morning, > > When I go to this site, I get the message ERROR PAGE NOT FOUND??? > > Pat > > > > Stefan Probst wrote: > > > > > > Hello Marcella, > > > > > > your http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/faq.htm > > > > > > is a very nice site, and a treasure bookmark for every old or new > Bavarian > > > genealogist. A few "entry links", but IMHO you selected exactly the > good > > > ones, that lead to more depth, depending how much time somebody wants > to > > > spend with strolling around the web. I found several new things there. > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Answered is e.g. the question about the census, that was here some > weeks > > > ago, and where no answer was available. > > > > > > It is quite the content that I thought of. Maybe our newbies can > suggest, > > > what they found difficult or missing.... > > > > > > The only difference is the form. I thought about a text, that can be > mailed > > > (like the FAQ in your last link), but more condensed, shorter, with > only > > > the most important info about Bavarian Genealogy. I don't know whether > > > everybody here on the list has easily access to the web, or whether > people > > > are limited to e-mail. If so, then we should look, whether it is > possible > > > to summarize your site into a text. > > > > > > But before that, maybe we can have feedback: > > > Can everybody access the web, or is it necessary to have a text-only > > > version, that can be mailed? > > > > > > Technically it could be done as a so-called Autoresponder. i.e. people > who > > > are interested, would send a request-mail to that Autoresponder which > in > > > return would send the text back. > > > > > > Once again: Congratulations for your "Gen-Vademecum"! > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > P.S.: > > > All the nice people who ansered about my "Sterbe-bildchen": > > > I will come back about that in a few days. Thanks a lot for now! > > > > > > At 06:27 18.01.00 -0600, Marcella wrote: > > > ------------------------- > > > > The first draft of the Bavaria FAQ, discussed in December, is posted > at: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/faq.htm > > > > > > > > I would appreciate feedback and suggestions for other questions and > > > > appropriate links. As I understood Stefan's suggestion, the page > should > > > be > > > > limited to information a new researcher would need. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Marcella Dawson > > > > Marcella Dawson > > > > dawsonm(a)hal-pc.org > > > > > > > > http://www.crpc.rice.edu/CRPC/GT/dawsonm/webindex.htm > > > > > > > > > >
Date: 2000/01/21 18:46:09
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi:I am looking for the town Hochstadt a.d. Hohen Mühl. I have done a Geo search and came up with 4 Hochstadt and am having some trouble determining which one it is. Is Hohen Mühl a river that the town Hochstadt is on? If so where is this river? Any clues would be appreciated. Thanks!
Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/01/22 22:39:31
From: Marc Busse <Marc.Busse(a)t-online.de>
Hallo miteinander, heute fand ich bei den Mormonen im Film #1194559 (kath. Kirchenbuch Usch, poln.: Uscie) bei den Heiraten folgenden bemerkenswerten Eintrag: *** Am 17.06.1773 heiratete in Usch, einer Kleinstadt am Fluß Netze in der Provinz Posen, heute Polen, Joannem Werth oriundum ex Küctungen a Main eine Anna Maria Mildbroth ex oppido Trepto Pommerania. Trauzeugen waren Joanne Moser und Friderico Rychter. *** 1772 war die erste polnische Teilung, Usch im Norden der Provinz Posen war also gerade preussisch geworden. Zu diesem Zeitpunkt schrieben die kath. Pfarrer die Eintraege lateinisch, polonisierten jedoch Personen- und Ortsnamen. Wenn man die Namen polnisch ausspricht, hört man den eigentlichen Namen oftmals heraus. Ich bin mir keineswegs sicher, aber der Eintrag koennte so interpretiert werden, dass ein Johannes Werth aus Kitzingen am Main in Unterfranken eine Anna Maria Mildbroth aus Treptow (an der Rega?) in Pommern heiratete. Der Name Moser ist ungewoehnlich, Richter kommt in Usch vor. Auf "oriundum" - vielleicht auch ein Lesefehler - kann ich mir keinen Reim machen. Was die beiden zusammenfuehrte und sie so weit von zu Hause heiraten liess? Das kann nur wahre Liebe sein! Vielleicht kann jemand mit diesem Zufallsfund etwas anfangen, unwahrscheinlich, aber nicht unmoeglich, viele Gruesse von Marc marc.busse(a)t-online.de
Date: 2000/01/24 09:21:24
From: Armin Wolfermann <aw(a)vis.de>
At 22:38 22.01.00 +0100, you wrote: >*** >Am 17.06.1773 heiratete in Usch, einer Kleinstadt am Fluß Netze in der Provinz >Posen, heute Polen, Joannem Werth oriundum ex Küctungen a Main eine Anna Maria >Mildbroth ex oppido Trepto Pommerania. Trauzeugen waren Joanne Moser und >Friderico Rychter. >*** [...] >Der Name Moser ist ungewoehnlich, Richter kommt in Usch vor. Auf "oriundum" - >vielleicht auch ein Lesefehler - kann ich mir keinen Reim machen. Das "oriundum ex" heißt soviel wie "abstammend aus", das "ex oppido" sowas wie "aus dem kleinen Dorf". Grüße, Armin Wolfermann
Date: 2000/01/25 20:44:45
From: ruffbj <ruffbj(a)juno.com>
Hallo Stefan: Yes, I have several of these from services in the US. They are called 'Memorial Cards' as far as I know. They are offered at about 1/3 of the funeral services I have attended. Alles Gute. Bill Ruff On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 18:29:28 +0700 Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net> writes: >Hello All, > >in Bavaria it is usual to print so-called "Sterbe-bildchen" when >somebody >has died and hand them out e.g. during the funeral. I have here copies ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Date: 2000/01/27 02:07:22
From: Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca>
I have been trying to send an email to Stefan Probst because I read a message he had posted on another genealogy site and wanted to exchange some details. I am using the email address for him that is listed in your message, yet I keep getting it returned to me with a message "user unknown". Do you have a current email address for him? Elsa Kahler ruffbj(a)juno.com wrote: > Hallo Stefan: Yes, I have several of these from services in the > US. They are called 'Memorial Cards' as far as I know. They are > offered at about 1/3 of the funeral services I have attended. Alles > Gute. Bill Ruff > > On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 18:29:28 +0700 Stefan Probst > <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net> writes: > >Hello All, > > > >in Bavaria it is usual to print so-called "Sterbe-bildchen" when > >somebody > >has died and hand them out e.g. during the funeral. I have here copies > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Date: 2000/01/28 17:28:07
From: ruffbj <ruffbj(a)juno.com>
Elsa:
Yes, I can give you 2 addresses - his own
stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net and then the franken-l site
franken-l(a)genealogy.net which he follows. Bill
Ruff
On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:10:24 -0500 Elsa Kahler <ekahler(a)sympatico.ca>
writes:
>I have been trying to send an email to Stefan Probst because I read a
>message he had posted on another genealogy site and wanted to exchange
>some
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
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Date: 2000/01/31 20:09:43
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Bruno:I have another question for you with respect to the Hersbrucker Häuserbuch. On page 74 #50 there is a reference to a Johann Pemsel Rathsherr 1771-1759. I have a death transcript from the Kirchenbuch in Hersbruck that says he was a Burgermeister. I know that a Rathsherr is a councilman. Would a Burgermeister also be considered a Rathsherr?
Thanks in advance! Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 2000/01/31 22:03:53
From: Irmi Gegner-Sünkler <gegner-suenkler(a)gmx.de>
Hi Larry - as far as I know a Buergermeister is a Mayor . Kind regards - Irmi
Date: 2000/01/31 23:17:14
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 31 Jan 00, at 13:09, Larry Mastromatteo wrote: > Hi Bruno: > > I have another question for you with respect to the Hersbrucker > Häuserbuch. On page 74 #50 there is a reference to a Johann Pemsel > Rathsherr 1771-1759. I have a death transcript from the Kirchenbuch in > Hersbruck that says he was a Burgermeister. I know that a Rathsherr is > a councilman. Would a Burgermeister also be considered a Rathsherr? Yes. The Rat would have included the mayor or mayors. Many cities elected several Bürgermeisters from within the ranks of the Rat. Each would represent a different faction mostly of the merchants, craftsmen and other Bürgers of the town. A Bürger is a citizen and typically was a property owner. They would elect their a master to manage whatever needed to be done. It is really the cities which lead a democratic development of urban society which did not materialize in the country until modern times. Fred 4788 Corian Court Naples, FL 34114 941-775-7838 Fred(a)compu.com
Date: 2000/01/31 23:51:53
From: B. Bauernschmidt <bauernschmidt(a)odn.de>
Hi Larry, today a short answer to your question: Hersbruck was in former times (and is still today) a town. That means, they had a council (only towns was allowed to have councils). The german word for council is: Rat. The Buergermeister is the chief of the council. The members of the council elects the Buergermeister (he is always one of them) for a period, for example a year. Bruno Bauernschmidt bauernschmidt(a)odn.de