Date: 1999/12/01 00:10:44
From: Martin Behrendt <MartinBehrendt(a)t-online.de>
Hello, I search for every information about the family Mierzinsky. The oldest person is August Ignaz Mierzinsky *1768 +1856! Thanks for any help ! ! ! ! Martin Behrendt
Date: 1999/12/03 03:10:28
From: Brian Stern <BrianS(a)pbcomputing.com>
>Does anybody know where the town Rothof is located? It is supposed to be
>near W¸rzburg but I can¥t find it on any map.
>
>Thanks,
>Paul
Paul,
A few possibilities:
Rothenhof (ü. Coburg)
Part of: Rödental
GKZ : 09 4 73 159
County : | | +---- Coburg {CO}
RegBez : | +------- Oberfranken
Land : +--------- Bayern
ZIP : 96472
Popul : 385
Locat : (Rödental) 50d17m N 11d04m E
Maps : TK25 5732 Sonnefeld
TK50 L5732 Sonneberg
Euro Ma47
Rottenhof
GKZ : 13 0 11 020
County : | +---- Altentreptow {AT}
Land : +--------- Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
ZIP : 17087
Locat : (Altentreptow) 53d42m N 13d15m E
Maps : TK25 2345 Altentreptow
TK50 L2344 Altentreptow
Euro Ob26
Substring matches for r*hof
Cnt Name
1 Rabenhof
1 Rangenhof
1 Rangierbahnhof
1 Rappenhof
1 Reckweilerhof
1 Reddershof
1 Rehhof
1 Reichelshof
1 Reichenbacherhof
1 Reichshof
1 Reifenhof
1 Remershof
1 Rethwischhof
1 Reutershof
1 Riedhof
1 Riepshof
1 Ripperterhof
1 Ritzmannshof
1 Röckenhof
2 Röderhof
1 Röhrigshof
1 Ronhof
6 Rosenhof
1 Rosenthalerhof
1 Rothenbergerhof
1 Rothenhof
1 Rottenhof
1 Rudeshof
1 Rübleinshof
1 Rugenhof
1 Ruhhof
1 Rundhof
1 Rundsmühlhof
________________________________________________________________
Brian Stern {8-{)}
BrianS(a)pbcomputing.com
Austin, TX
Searching: AUERBACH Touste, Lemberg, Ukr; HOCHMAN Touste, Ivano-frankovsk,
Ukr; ADLER, FISCH Zholkva, Ukr;
STERN, Bruchsal, Olnhausen, Laupheim, Heinsheim Germany; BLOCH Eichtersheim
Germany; EHRLICH Bieringen, Edelfingen, Germany. GROSS, Affaltrach,
Germany. WUERZBERGER Bieringen, Germany. KAUFMANN, Laupheim Germany.
Date: 1999/12/03 03:45:54
From: Ginger <gingerh(a)shawneelink.com>
Hi,
I checked my AutoAtlas and came up blank.
Have you tried www.mapquest.com?
Good Luck
Ginger
gingerh(a)shawneelink.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Stern <BrianS(a)pbcomputing.com>
To: franken-l(a)genealogy.net <franken-l(a)genealogy.net>
Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: Rothof
>Does anybody know where the town Rothof is located? It is supposed to be
>near W¸rzburg but I can¥t find it on any map.
>
>Thanks,
>Paul
Paul,
A few possibilities:
Rothenhof (ü. Coburg)
Part of: Rödental
GKZ : 09 4 73 159
County : | | +---- Coburg {CO}
RegBez : | +------- Oberfranken
Land : +--------- Bayern
ZIP : 96472
Popul : 385
Locat : (Rödental) 50d17m N 11d04m E
Maps : TK25 5732 Sonnefeld
TK50 L5732 Sonneberg
Euro Ma47
Rottenhof
GKZ : 13 0 11 020
County : | +---- Altentreptow {AT}
Land : +--------- Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
ZIP : 17087
Locat : (Altentreptow) 53d42m N 13d15m E
Maps : TK25 2345 Altentreptow
TK50 L2344 Altentreptow
Euro Ob26
Substring matches for r*hof
Cnt Name
1 Rabenhof
1 Rangenhof
1 Rangierbahnhof
1 Rappenhof
1 Reckweilerhof
1 Reddershof
1 Rehhof
1 Reichelshof
1 Reichenbacherhof
1 Reichshof
1 Reifenhof
1 Remershof
1 Rethwischhof
1 Reutershof
1 Riedhof
1 Riepshof
1 Ripperterhof
1 Ritzmannshof
1 Röckenhof
2 Röderhof
1 Röhrigshof
1 Ronhof
6 Rosenhof
1 Rosenthalerhof
1 Rothenbergerhof
1 Rothenhof
1 Rottenhof
1 Rudeshof
1 Rübleinshof
1 Rugenhof
1 Ruhhof
1 Rundhof
1 Rundsmühlhof
________________________________________________________________
Brian Stern {8-{)}
BrianS(a)pbcomputing.com
Austin, TX
Searching: AUERBACH Touste, Lemberg, Ukr; HOCHMAN Touste, Ivano-frankovsk,
Ukr; ADLER, FISCH Zholkva, Ukr;
STERN, Bruchsal, Olnhausen, Laupheim, Heinsheim Germany; BLOCH Eichtersheim
Germany; EHRLICH Bieringen, Edelfingen, Germany. GROSS, Affaltrach,
Germany. WUERZBERGER Bieringen, Germany. KAUFMANN, Laupheim Germany.
Date: 1999/12/03 14:13:36
From: Ralph Habersack <RHab(a)compuserve.com>
Hallo, hat zufällig jemand Zugang zu Heft 7 der "Schriftenreihe des Stadtarchivs Ellingen": Siglinde Buchner, "Ellinger Hausbesitzer zwischen 1536 und 1820"? Das würde mir die Warterei mit der Fernleihe bzw. den Schriftverkehr mit dem Stadtarchiv ersparen. Ferner: Hat jemand die "Blätter für fränkische Familienkunde 21 (1998)". Darin ist angeblich ein Artikel von Siglinde Buchner: "Ellinger Einwohnerlisten aus drei Jahrhunderten". Um welche Jahrhunderte handelt es sich hier? Danke! [Suche u.a.: HAUSER, Georg, Postexpeditor in Ellingen um 1790.] Ralph Habersack RHab(a)compuserve.com
Date: 1999/12/03 15:58:11
From: B. Bauernschmidt <bauernschmidt(a)odn.de>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Ralph Habersack <RHab(a)compuserve.com> An: franken-l <franken-l(a)genealogy.net> Datum: Freitag, 3. Dezember 1999 14:18 Betreff: Ellingen >hat zufällig jemand Zugang zu Heft 7 der "Schriftenreihe des Stadtarchivs >Ellingen": Siglinde Buchner, "Ellinger Hausbesitzer zwischen 1536 und >1820"? >Ferner: Hat jemand die "Blätter für fränkische Familienkunde 21 (1998)". Hallo Ralph, zum Heft 7 der Schriftenreihe des Stadtarchivs Ellingen habe ich Zugang. Was kann ich in diesem Zusammenhang für Dich tun? Der Aufsatz aus den Blättern für fränk. Familienkunde von Siglinde Buchner (Ellinger Einwohnerlisten aus drei Jahrhunderten) ist 7 Seiten lang und umfaßt: a) Reichssteuerregister von 1496/97, b) Steuerliste von 1530, c) Erbhuldigungsliste von 1667 Viele Grüße Bruno Bauernschmidt bauernschmidt(a)odn.de
Date: 1999/12/04 04:28:55
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi! Can someone tell me what a Melber is? Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/04 11:51:20
From: B. Bauernschmidt <bauernschmidt(a)odn.de>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca> An: franken-l(a)genealogy.net <franken-l(a)genealogy.net> >Can someone tell me what a Melber is? A MELBER is a person, who sells flour; in german is is called MEHLHAENDLER. In former times the melber was the connection between the mills and the bakeries. Bruno Bauernschmidt bauernschmidt(a)odn.de
Date: 1999/12/04 14:58:18
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
-----Urspr¸ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca> An: franken-l(a)genealogy.net <franken-l(a)genealogy.net> >Can someone tell me what a Melber is? A MELBER is a person, who sells flour; in german is is called MEHLHAENDLER. In former times the melber was the connection between the mills and the bakeries. Bruno Bauernschmidt bauernschmidt(a)odn.de
Thanks Bruno - Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/04 21:04:22
From: Peter Kernwein <Peter.Kernwein(a)t-online.de>
Hallo,
ich bin ziemlich am Anfang meiner Forschungen, weiß deshalb auch noch
nicht, ob dies der richtige Weg ist, um einige Infos zu erlangen.
Ich suche in Sulzfeld am Main folgende Familien:
Kernwein
Stephan
Englert
Schenkel
und in Nordheim v.d. Rhön:
Gramm
Benkert
Pfeffermann
Bandroff.
Herzlichen Dank
Peter Kernwein
Date: 1999/12/04 21:04:22
From: Peter Kernwein <Peter.Kernwein(a)t-online.de>
Hallo,
wer weiß, wo die Kirchenbücher der o.g. Orte zu finden sind?
In Marktbreit suche ich Infos über die Familien:
Rützel
Marschall
in Dettelbach über:
Schnackig
Hufnagel
in Seinsheim über:
Kernwein
Korn
Wer hat hier Informationen?
Besten Dank
Peter Kernwein
Date: 1999/12/04 22:20:52
From: Ralph Habersack <RHab(a)compuserve.com>
Nochmals Hallo Peter, Herzlich willkommen hier. Gerade habe ich eine Mail an dich über Englert und Stephan abgeschickt. Auch die Schenkel sind ein altes Unterfränkisches Geschlecht. So hat z.B. mein Urururur....großvater Johann Baptist Habersack 1718 in Würzburg die Witwe des Schultheißen in Stetten b. Karlstadt am Main Johann Heinrich Schenkel geheiratet. Ein Verwandter dieses J. Heinrich Schenkel, Johann Melchior Schenkel, war um 1700 Domvikar und Schatzmeister in Würzburg. Die Vorfahren dieser Schenkels stammen aus Tauberbischofsheim und waren dort (Laurentius Henricus und Johann Philipp Schenkel) Bürger und Chirurgen. Ob von dieser Familie eine Spur zu deiner führt, kann ich natürlich nicht sagen. Welche Kirchenbücher im Diözesanarchiv in Würzburg zu finden sind, steht übrigens auf den Internet-Seiten der GFF. Viele Grüße, Ralph Ralph Habersack, RHab(a)compuserve.com
Date: 1999/12/05 06:06:42
From: Norbert Sopolsky <nssopolsky(a)earthlink.net>
Do you have any access to info on the family Grimmer in Würburg about 1750? Georg Philip Grimmer settled in Prölsdorf, Steigerwald, bei Bamberg, later. Thanxs, Danke!!!!!
Date: 1999/12/05 15:23:32
From: Peter Kernwein <Peter.Kernwein(a)t-online.de>
Hallo Ralph, vielen, vielen Dank für die Mühe, die Du Dir gemacht hast. Ralph Habersack schrieb: > Nochmals Hallo Peter, > > Herzlich willkommen hier. Gerade habe ich eine Mail an dich über Englert > und Stephan abgeschickt. > Auch die Schenkel sind ein altes Unterfränkisches Geschlecht. So hat z.B. > mein Urururur....großvater Johann Baptist Habersack 1718 in Würzburg die > Witwe des Schultheißen in Stetten b. Karlstadt am Main Johann Heinrich > Schenkel geheiratet. Ein Verwandter dieses J. Heinrich Schenkel, Johann > Melchior Schenkel, war um 1700 Domvikar und Schatzmeister in Würzburg. Die > Vorfahren dieser Schenkels stammen aus Tauberbischofsheim und waren dort > (Laurentius Henricus und Johann Philipp Schenkel) Bürger und Chirurgen. Das ist ja interessant, da ich unweit von Tauberbischofsheim wohne. > Ob > von dieser Familie eine Spur zu deiner führt, kann ich natürlich nicht > sagen. > > Welche Kirchenbücher im Diözesanarchiv in Würzburg zu finden sind, steht > übrigens auf den Internet-Seiten der GFF. Ja, danke, habe ich inzwischen gefunden. > Viele Grüße Peter Kernwein
Date: 1999/12/14 02:45:52
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/14 04:35:09
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 13 Dec 99, at 19:45, Larry Mastromatteo wrote: > I ordered a book through Gesellschaft Für Familienforschung in > Nürnberg and would like to check as to weather they received my > order. Does anybody know if they have an email address. Thank you. > > Regards, > Larry Mastromatteo > Saskatoon, Saskatchewan > Canada No email address, but Bruno Baaauernschmidt is one of their computer guys and he's on this list. Maybe he can check what you're looking for. Fred 4788 Corian Court Naples, FL 34114 941-775-7838 Fred(a)compu.com
Date: 1999/12/14 16:25:00
From: B. Bauernschmidt <bauernschmidt(a)odn.de>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca> An: franken-l(a)genealogy.net <franken-l(a)genealogy.net> Datum: Dienstag, 14. Dezember 1999 02:49 Betreff: Gesellschaft Für Familienforschung >I ordered a book through Gesellschaft Für Familienforschung in >Nürnberg and would like to check as to weather they received my >order. Does anybody know if they have an email address. Thank you. Hallo Larry, sorry, but the Gesellschaft fuer Familienforschung in Franken (GFF) has no email address. You must use normal post. The reason ist, that there is no volunteer to answer all the mails coming in. Please notice, that all the work in the GFF is the work of volunteers. Bruno Bauernschmidt bauernschmidt(a)odn.de
Date: 1999/12/14 17:00:46
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Bruno:Can you check on my order, please. I ordered on October 20,1999 a book called "Fränkische Ahnen - Familienregister der Evan-Lutherischen Kirchengemeinde Neuses am Berg 1651-1900". I would of thought by now I would of received same unless it got lost in the mail. Thank you.
Sincerely, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/15 21:54:20
From: B. Bauernschmidt <bauernschmidt(a)odn.de>
Hi Larry, I gave today your question about your order to Mr. Edgar Hubrich from the GFF. He will contact you tomorrow. Bruno Bauernschmidt bauernschmidt(a)odn.de
Date: 1999/12/15 23:41:47
From: gerald KISABETH <geraldkisabeth(a)hotmail.com>
I wrote to this society about 10 years ago and received a nice reply.But I would like to know if they sell books or other items and if they do some research etc... I need someone in the area of Oberfranken to see if I can purchase a copy of the book, "Landbuch der Sechsämter von 1499" or if someone can look up a few surnames for me.
Any advice or info on this society will help. Thans, Gerald K. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 1999/12/16 05:22:48
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 15 Dec 99, at 14:41, gerald KISABETH wrote: > I have been reading about this genealogical society in Nurnberg for > the past 3 days and would like to find out more about their work. I > wrote to this society about 10 years ago and received a nice reply. > But I would like to know if they sell books or other items and if they > do some research etc... I need someone in the area of Oberfranken to > see if I can purchase a copy of the book, "Landbuch der Sechsämter von > 1499" or if someone can look up a few surnames for me. > > Any advice or info on this society will help. > Thans, Gerald K. I've belonged to the society for a number of years now and one mainly gets their annual publication for the dues. I had hoped to establish contact with the membership via email hoping to find others researching in the same town but that has not amateriualized yet as only a handful of members (out of over 700) have an email address. I keep hoping things will change and that the management will be more proactive in this direction but I'm afraid this is still a long way off. Fred 4788 Corian Court Naples, FL 34114 941-775-7838 Fred(a)compu.com
Date: 1999/12/16 15:20:19
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: "Polly Kleiber" <kleibers(a)midohio.net> To: <Fred(a)compu.com> Subject: Re: Oberfranken Date sent: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:48:23 -0500 I just read your e-mail and thought the book, etc. would be very interesting. My husband's grandfather came from Rudenhausen, Bavaria, Germany. So anything I read about that area is very interesting to me. I will stay tuned for any further information you might receive. Polly and George Kleiber e-mail: kleibers(a)midohio.net ------- End of forwarded message -------
Date: 1999/12/16 15:32:10
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Bruno: Thank you. I really appreciate the help. Sincerely, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/16 20:52:50
From: B. Bauernschmidt <bauernschmidt(a)odn.de>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: gerald KISABETH <geraldkisabeth(a)hotmail.com> An: franken-l(a)genealogy.net <franken-l(a)genealogy.net> Datum: Mittwoch, 15. Dezember 1999 23:47 Betreff: Gesellschaft fur Familienforschung in franken >I have been reading about this genealogical society in Nurnberg for the past >3 days and would like to find out more about their work. Hallo Gerald to get more informations about the genealogical society in Nuernberg, try their website: www.gf-franken.de Bruno Bauernschmidt bauernschmidt(a)odn.de
Date: 1999/12/17 22:38:19
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Also is "erbarn or erbane" the same as "ehrbarn". Do these words all have the same meaning?
Thank You. Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/17 22:41:52
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi!Can someone tell me where the catholic church records would be for the following places?
1) Wörth a. d. Donau, Oberpfalz, Bayern 2) Nittenau, Oberpfalz, Bayern 3) Falkenstein, Oberpfalz, Bayern Thank You. Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/18 06:47:16
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
At 15:38 17.12.99 -0600, you wrote: ------------------------- > I am looking for a translation for "Schuldiener" In my dictionary it > says that it is a schoolteacher but someone told me it was a > caretaker. does anyone know which is right. As far as I understood it (and my father was teacher :-)) ), the "Schuldiener" was some kind of non-teaching assistant to the headmaster. Doing mainly administrative works (clerk). I guess that there are retired teachers on the list, who could complete and correct my interpretation. > > Also is "erbarn or erbane" the same as "ehrbarn". Do these words all > have the same meaning? Can you give the word in context - the whole sentence? Merry Christmas Stefan
Date: 1999/12/18 14:07:05
From: Pm401kplan <Pm401kplan(a)aol.com>
In a message dated 12/17/99 4:43:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca writes: << Can someone tell me where the catholic church records would be for the following places? 1) Wörth a. d. Donau, Oberpfalz, Bayern 2) Nittenau, Oberpfalz, Bayern 3) Falkenstein, Oberpfalz, Bayern >> Larry: All of these towns are in the Diocese of Regensburg. The addresses for the Churches are: Kath. Pfarramt St. Sebastian Burgstr. 11 93167 Falkenstein Kath. Pfarramt Mariä Geburt Kirchplazt 4 93194 Nittenau Kath. Pfarramt St. Peter Regensburger Str. 1 93086 Wörth Many of the Churches in Bavaria have moved the old birth/marriage/death records to the Diocesan Archives, so you would have to contact the Archive for information. To find out if this is the case for these towns, go to: www. bistum-regensburg.de/ click on e-mail, and send your message. If you don't speak German, I assume there is someone at the e-mail address who understands English and can tell you how to get the info you are looking for. Good luck! Paul C. Miller
Date: 1999/12/18 15:12:56
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Paul: Thanks for the information. Sincerely, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/18 15:21:21
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Stefan: Thanks for the translation for "Schuldiener". The transcripts read: Der Erbane Johann Paul Pemsel, Bürger..... des Erbarn Schwarz-und Silvrönfärber Handwerks.... Der Ehrbane, Actbare und gelehrte Johann Paul Zerwick..... Sincerely, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/18 22:30:37
From: B. Bauernschmidt <bauernschmidt(a)odn.de>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca> An: franken-l(a)genealogy.net <franken-l(a)genealogy.net> Datum: Samstag, 18. Dezember 1999 15:26 Betreff: Re: Translation >The transcripts read: >Der Erbane Johann Paul Pemsel, Bürger..... >des Erbarn Schwarz-und Silvrönfärber Handwerks.... >Der Ehrbane, Actbare und gelehrte Johann Paul Zerwick..... Hi Larry, the word is not ERBANE, but ERBARE, in other old scripts is is spelled EHRBARE. With this spelling you can see the meaning: it is a special form of the german word EHRE, in english: honour. DER ERBARE JOHANN PAUL PEMSEL, means, that Johann Paul Pemsel was a man of honour. It is a very often used flourish (in Church records) and means, that nobody could say something bad about this man. Bruno Bauernschmidt bauernschmidt(a)odn.de
Date: 1999/12/19 02:43:09
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Bruno:Thanks for the translation. I have been trying to find it in the dictionary and could not find it. I even went to the University library here to see if I could find it in old German dictionaries but it was not there either.
Sincerely, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/19 08:41:41
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
Bruno: Thanks for explanations. Learned again a bit more :-)) Just to continue: "Ehrbar" would quite well translate into "honourable". I am not sure, but it could even be, that there were offences, by which you would loose your "Ehre/Honour"?? Was this even some kind of status like "no criminal record" (nicht vorbestraft)??? Or was it a social status, i.e. somebody of a well respected profession??? How comes that there is a "ehrbare Handwerk" (honourable craft)??? Your "actbare" should be "achtbare" (worthy) from "achten" (to respect). Pretty much the same meaning now, so why did they mention both in your document?? Was there a special meaning behind it, or just ornamental "flourish"??? Probably not important, but once you start thinking about those issues, you end up quickly in ticky detail questions.... Bruno: I read your answers always. Good that you are on the list!!! :=)) Nice Sunday, Stefan At 22:16 18.12.99 +0100, you wrote: ------------------------- > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca> > An: franken-l(a)genealogy.net <franken-l(a)genealogy.net> > Datum: Samstag, 18. Dezember 1999 15:26 > Betreff: Re: Translation > >The transcripts read: > >Der Erbane Johann Paul Pemsel, Bürger..... > >des Erbarn Schwarz-und Silvrönfärber Handwerks.... > >Der Ehrbane, Actbare und gelehrte Johann Paul Zerwick..... > > > Hi Larry, > the word is not ERBANE, but ERBARE, in other old scripts is is spelled > EHRBARE. With this spelling you can see the meaning: it is a special form of > the german word EHRE, in english: honour. > DER ERBARE JOHANN PAUL PEMSEL, means, that Johann Paul Pemsel was a man of > honour. It is a very often used flourish (in Church records) and means, that > nobody could say something bad about this man. > > Bruno Bauernschmidt > bauernschmidt(a)odn.de > > > >
Date: 1999/12/20 14:28:47
From: Molan, Gary <GMolan(a)avionics.itt.com>
It depends on the time period ... I have an ancestor that was listed as a Schuldiener in a birth record of 1793 in Eishausen, Thuringia ... he was the school teacher of this very tiny town (as well as the choir master) ... his sons became school teachers also .. Today of course ... that word would indicate he is an assistant ... Der Vater, Herr Johann Michael Eÿring, Cantor und Schuldiener zu Eishausen Good Luck, Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: Stefan Probst [SMTP:stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net] > Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 12:12 AM > To: franken-l(a)genealogy.net > Subject: Re: Translation > > At 15:38 17.12.99 -0600, you wrote: > ------------------------- > > I am looking for a translation for "Schuldiener" In my dictionary it > > says that it is a schoolteacher but someone told me it was a > > caretaker. does anyone know which is right. > As far as I understood it (and my father was teacher :-)) ), the > "Schuldiener" was some kind of non-teaching assistant to the headmaster. > Doing mainly administrative works (clerk). > I guess that there are retired teachers on the list, who could complete > and > correct my interpretation. > > > > Also is "erbarn or erbane" the same as "ehrbarn". Do these words all > > have the same meaning? > Can you give the word in context - the whole sentence? > > > Merry Christmas > Stefan
Date: 1999/12/20 21:16:16
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Gary:Can you tell me how you know for a fact that your ancestors were school teachers. I have been given three different translations for "Schuldiener" so far. I would like to know which one is right.
Find enclosed a transcript of a marriage register circa 1784. German Text: Trauungen 1784, S.(eite) 156, Nr. 3 procl.(amiert) Dom.(inicae) 1. und 2. p.(ost) Epiph.(ania) cop.(ulation) Igensdorf (Thurdsay) 27. Januarius Der Ehrbare, Achtbare und gelehrte Johann Paul Zerwick, Collega Secundus der Schule und Organist in Gräfenberg, des weiland Ehrbaren Erhart Zerwick, Bürger und Maurermeister allhier S.(elig) N.(achgelassener) E.(helicher) S.(ohn), junger Gesell, mit der Ehrbaren und Tugendreichen Jungfer Catherian Eleonora, des weiland Ehrbaren, Achtbaren und Gelehrten H(e)r(r)n Johann Wagner, Schuldiener an der Wirthischen Armen Kinder Schule im Neuen Spital zum H.(eiligen) G.(eist) in Nürnberg S.(elig) N.(achgelassene) E.(heliche) T.(ochter). translation: Register of Marriage 1784, p. 156, No. 3 announced (in the church) on 1st and 2nd Sunday after Epiphany (Jan. 6th) Married at Igensdorf on Thursday Jan. 27th. [Igensdorf is near Gräfenberg] The honorable, most respected and wise Johann Paul Zerwick, con-rector at the school and organ player from Gräfenberg, late Erhart Zerwick's young son, formerly citizen and Master Bricklayer from here (Hersbruck) with the honorable and virtuous maid Catherina Eleonora, late Johann Wagner's daughter, formerly caretaker at Wirthischen Armenkinderschule (means school for the poor children; Wirthischen is the name of the school, like Harvard University). The "Heilig Geist-Spital" at Nuremberg is one of Nuremberg's famous places, built in the Mediaval as hospital for the poor people, run by the "order of the Holy Gost" Sincerely, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/20 22:25:15
From: Molan, Gary <GMolan(a)avionics.itt.com>
Hi there ... I too initially thought that Schuldiener was a school assistant since my first record on this ancestor was as follows: Note he is called "Cantor und Schuldiener zu Eishausen" Maria Rosina Johannetta Eÿring Geborenen: den 24 Juli 1793 um 8 Uhr Abends; Getauft: den 26 Juli Der Vater, Herr Johann Michael Eÿring, Cantor und Schuldiener zu Eishausen; die Mutter, Frau Maria Sabina Christiana geb. Reis'in, von Coburg; die _______ und Taufezeugen 1/ Jgfr Catharina Johanna Maria Wagner'in; 2/ Frau Rosina Elisabetha Johannetta Geÿer'in; beide in kammer diensten und hauß haltung beÿ Jhr Excelz. der Frau geheimde Räthin von Heßberg, zu Eishausen; 3/ Herr Johann Balthasar Handschuf, Hochadl(ichen) von Heßberg verwalter, zu Eishausen I started writing to the churches in Germany to get more church records on this family ... the people who answered from Germany would say he was the school teacher ... I remember someone explaining to me on Gen-de-L that Schuldiener was an old word that meant School Teacher long ago .... of course in modern times it means a School Assistant ... However ... I finally found a marriage record from 1824 from Ebenhards that confirmed that he was the school teacher ... Note he is called "Cantor und Schulmeister zu Eishausen" Trauregister Anno 1824 Johann Nicol Torwierth, Müllermeister Geburts- und Wohnort Ebenhards, Witwer Alter: 34 Jahre 5 Monate 4 tage Eltern: Vater: Meister Johann Michael Torwierth, Müller und eigentümlicher Besitzer der hiesigen Mühle, Mitnachbar allhier Mutter: Anna Christina geborene Glausmänn'in von Harras Ehelichte: Maria Rosina Johanette Eyring, Wohnort Eishausen, ledig Vater: Herr Johann Michael Eyring, Cantor und Schulmeister zu Eishausen Mutter: Frau Maria Sabina Christina Reiß'in von Coburg Trauung am: 15 August 1824 Dom IX p. Trinitatis As a note ... Johann Michael Eyrings son was the schoolteacher in Weidhausen ... I was sent this regarding the first Weidhausen school. It was pretty interesting: The Founding of the School a) Closing the old school In 1810, in a program of improving the schools the Hildburghausen state government closed the school (the "Preaceptorat") in Weidhausen. It was to be replaced by a new school shared with Tr"ubenbach. According to Duke Friedrich's orders the school was combined with the posts of church-watchman and organist. (G Ug Sonnefeld Nr. 809). The two villages stubornly refused to give up their old schools, so in the end the Duke personally ordered them, on 17 Feb 1811, to close the old schools and form a new joint school in Weidhausen. However, when the weather was bad the teacher would also hold classes in Tr"ubenbach in the afternoons. The first teacher was Johann Wolfgang Eyring from Eishausen. After an examination, he began his duties on the 28 May 1811. He still had to hold classes in the village blacksmith's shop. The teacher's payments for the year are very interesting, we wouldn't want the reader to miss them. According to this, the teacher received each year: 14 fr"ankisch Gulden from Weidhausen church funds 45 fr"ankisch Gulden food- and school money from members of the community 15 fr"ankisch Gulden ? -money (after subtracting expenses.) 8 fr"ankisch Gulden for 2 Klafter of soft wood, more if needed. 5 fr"ankisch Gulden for his housing. A total of 87 fr"ankisch Gulden each year. hope that helps Good luck Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Mastromatteo [SMTP:insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca] > Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 3:16 PM > To: franken-l(a)genealogy.net > Subject: RE: Translation > > Hi Gary: > > Can you tell me how you know for a fact that your ancestors were > school teachers. I have been given three different translations for > "Schuldiener" so far. I would like to know which one is right. > > Find enclosed a transcript of a marriage register circa 1784. > > German Text: > > Trauungen 1784, S.(eite) 156, Nr. 3 > > procl.(amiert) Dom.(inicae) 1. und 2. p.(ost) Epiph.(ania) > cop.(ulation) Igensdorf (Thurdsay) 27. Januarius > Der Ehrbare, Achtbare und gelehrte Johann Paul Zerwick, Collega Secundus > der Schule und Organist in Gräfenberg, des weiland Ehrbaren Erhart > Zerwick, Bürger und Maurermeister allhier S.(elig) N.(achgelassener) > E.(helicher) S.(ohn), junger Gesell, mit der > Ehrbaren und Tugendreichen Jungfer Catherian Eleonora, des weiland > Ehrbaren, Achtbaren und Gelehrten H(e)r(r)n Johann Wagner, Schuldiener > an der Wirthischen Armen Kinder Schule im Neuen Spital zum H.(eiligen) > G.(eist) in Nürnberg S.(elig) N.(achgelassene) E.(heliche) T.(ochter). > > > translation: > > Register of Marriage 1784, p. 156, No. 3 > > announced (in the church) on 1st and 2nd Sunday after Epiphany (Jan. > 6th) > Married at Igensdorf on Thursday Jan. 27th. > [Igensdorf is near Gräfenberg] > > The honorable, most respected and wise Johann Paul Zerwick, con-rector > at the school and organ player from Gräfenberg, > late Erhart Zerwick's young son, formerly citizen and Master Bricklayer > from here (Hersbruck) > with > the honorable and virtuous maid Catherina Eleonora, > late Johann Wagner's daughter, formerly caretaker at Wirthischen > Armenkinderschule (means school for the poor children; Wirthischen is > the name of the school, like Harvard University). > > The "Heilig Geist-Spital" at Nuremberg is one of Nuremberg's famous > places, built in the Mediaval as hospital for the poor people, run by > the "order of the Holy Gost" > > Sincerely, > Larry Mastromatteo > Saskatoon, Saskatchewan > Canada
Date: 1999/12/21 03:41:31
From: Wolfgang Fred Rump <fredrump(a)home.com>
On 20 Dec 99, at 14:16, Larry Mastromatteo wrote: > Ehrbaren und Tugendreichen Jungfer Catherian Eleonora, des weiland > Ehrbaren, Achtbaren und Gelehrten H(e)r(r)n Johann Wagner, Schuldiener > an der Wirthischen Armen Kinder Schule im Neuen Spital zum H.(eiligen) > G.(eist) in Nürnberg S.(elig) N.(achgelassene) E.(heliche) T.(ochter). > Larry, somebody did a good job with the text and the translation. If I may jump in here, we're talking 18th century here and you have a deceased honorable and educated gentleman who was a Schuldiener - a servant to the educational process, a teacher and caretaker of poor children, probably orphans. Teachers had many names as the process or occupation had not really been developed yet except in higher education. The Prussians had a habit of sticking retired soldiers into schools as teachers. The main requirement was the ability to keep order and instill discipline in their classes. These classes were single room situations were everybody sat together for all grades. Then it was a matter of drill, just like in the military. Repeat something long enough and it will stick. Lots of the 'education' was learning the catechism or the Bible. That was really all anyone would need in life unless they were to go on into higher education which very few did. Typically three years of school was considered enough for a farmer's child. There was simply no need for anything else. So the teacher could have come from many environments. They were typically paid very poorly and needed other jobs to keep them alive. So the teacher was also a cantor and church organist or whatever other services he could perform in his local church. My 18th century 'Ludimagister', as he liked to call himself, had been a Feldjäger in the Ansbach military. When the country (The Margraviate of Ansbach-Bayreuth-Kulmbach) became part of Prussia, he became a Prussian Feldjäger. His parents had some influence at home in Franken which may be why he was cachiered out of the military upon getting one of the local ladies of the minor nobility pregnant in Westphalia to be given the job of teacher in Hilter. He married the lady and ssome of their children also married into the nobility. His mother was an illegitimate child of the last Freiherr von Lentersheim of Altenmuhr in Franken. History tells me that the job was the pits for my g...grandfather as he lived in a hovel which caused some of his children and his wife to die from the cold and dampness of the place. He himself turned into the town drunkard but kept his job as assistant to the pastor and school teacher for over twenty years. One of his students left his memoirs to posterity. His drunkeness and terrible manners in school, which basically was run with a stick, left deep impressions with this person. If I went just by the basic records, I would have thought this man to be just as honorable and educated as any other teacher but then I found some contemporary information about the man from a student. It reveals history as it should be - as described by witnessing contemporaries. While I've never seen the term Schuldiener in any of my own research, I do think that the various explanations given here which point to a teacher are correct. It's just that the terminology hadn't been worked out yet and nor had the job itself. Fred 4788 Corian Court Naples, FL 34114 941-775-7838 Fred(a)compu.com
Date: 1999/12/21 19:07:53
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Bruno: Thanks for the help with my book. I just received it today. Sincerely, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/22 17:25:29
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Fred: You did a good job with your translation of Schuldiener. I enjoyed reading it. Merry Christmas. Sincerely, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/23 18:03:43
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Bruno:I am have some trouble with figuring out the invoice that I received with the book I ordered. I ordered the book "Frankishe Ahnen, Neuses am Berg" cost for the book was 22.5 DM for non members. I sent along 50 DM in the form of a bank draft to cover shipping and handling.
This is the Invoice I got back: 1 Frankishe Ahnen, Neuses am Berg : 22.50 DM Verpackung : --DM Porto : 20.00 DM Bankgebühr : 7.50 DM Endsumme : 50.00 DMAfter the Endsumme there is a note that simply says : Eigentlich 25.00 DM referring to the Bankgebühr
My problem is, unless I am missing something in the translation, why is the bank charging so much to cash a 50 DM bank draft. Is there a better way to send money to Germany? How should I send the 25 DM that they requested? Is the bank going to take 20 DM to cash the 25 DM.
I would like to know for future purchases. I would like to thank you in advance and remain, Sincerely, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/25 03:10:56
From: Stefan Probst <stefan.probst(a)opticom.v-nam.net>
Hi Everybody, I just got the "Messagemates Virus". It appears like it would come from the franken-l mailing list!!! Subject: "Why I posted Bavarian info on the franken list" This is a subject, that I used by myself 3 months ago! I am using Eudora, and until now, Eudora is thought to be immun to this kind of virusses. Therefore I think it doesn't come from me. Unfortunately, the header is screwed up, so I can't determine, where it really comes from. On first sight it looks, like this virus would try to hide the mail distribution path in the header of the mail. Since it is HTML (not plain text), I assume that it doesn't come from the list itself, but from one of the members' PC and the virus pretends it would come from the list. The "harmless version", i.e. without the dangerous file attached I copied below. If you get this mail, delete the attachement immediately. As far as I remember recent virus warnings, it is quite dangerous. I know for sure it is no Hoax. Have no time to check and give you the corresponding URL on Symantec and Norton's site. A nice Christmas present :-( Nevertheless, Merry Christmas everywhere Stefan ------------------------- Here how the mail looks (originally in colour, since it is in HTML): > > > http://stuart.messagemates.com/index.html > > Hypercool Happy New Year 2000 funny programs and animations... > We attached our recent animation from this site in our mail ! Check it out ! > > Attachment Converted: "......\gadget.exe" >
Date: 1999/12/29 22:16:43
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Bruno:Further to our discussion about "bank drafts" please be advised that I received a letter from the GFF in Nürnberg explaining that the banks charge 25-30 DM to cash same. They prefer that people send cash! Maybe if it is sent by registered mail it would be OK. Unfortunately instead of waiting I sent them more money by bank draft but in the future, now that I know, I will send the cash instead.
Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/30 00:54:04
From: Larry Mastromatteo <insul(a)sk.sympatico.ca>
Hi Everyone:I have an old photograph that I am trying to date. It is a German picture 2" wide by 41/4" high on card stock, colour of the card is taupe, the colour of the picture is also shades of taupe. There is a young woman in the picture wearing a 3/4 length dress with double breasted buttons that start about 4" from the shoulders and go all the way down to about one foot from the hem. Her sleeves go about 3" past her elbows towards her wrists. She is wearing lace up boots that go to the top of the hem line.
Is there anyone on this list that might be able to help with the date. Maybe someone who has an old collection of family photos. I have the picture scanned and could send a jpeg file.
Regards, Larry Mastromatteo Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Date: 1999/12/30 03:50:31
From: Jim Amaral <jamaral(a)columbus.rr.com>
Try this! it's a great site I use in some of my talks on genealogy & the web. This one is on history of photo; includes dating photos. JimA <http://www.genealogy.org/~ajmorris/photo/photo.htm> Larry Mastromatteo wrote: > Hi Everyone: > > I have an old photograph that I am trying to date. It is a German > picture 2" wide by 41/4" high on card stock, colour of the card is > taupe, the colour of the picture is also shades of taupe. There is a > young woman in the picture wearing a 3/4 length dress with double > breasted buttons that start about 4" from the shoulders and go all > the way down to about one foot from the hem. Her sleeves go about 3" > past her elbows towards her wrists. She is wearing lace up boots that > go to the top of the hem line. > > Is there anyone on this list that might be able to help with the > date. Maybe someone who has an old collection of family photos. I > have the picture scanned and could send a jpeg file. > > Regards, > Larry Mastromatteo > Saskatoon, Saskatchewan > Canada
Date: 1999/12/30 16:12:01
From: E. J. HERTERICK <EJSMAPS(a)worldnet.att.net>
Stefan Probst wrote: > > Hi Everybody, > > I just got the "Messagemates Virus". > It appears like it would come from the franken-l mailing list!!! > Subject: "Why I posted Bavarian info on the franken list" > This is a subject, that I used by myself 3 months ago! > I am using Eudora, and until now, Eudora is thought to be immun to this > kind of virusses. Therefore I think it doesn't come from me. > > Unfortunately, the header is screwed up, so I can't determine, where it > really comes from. On first sight it looks, like this virus would try to > hide the mail distribution path in the header of the mail. > Since it is HTML (not plain text), I assume that it doesn't come from the > list itself, but from one of the members' PC and the virus pretends it > would come from the list. > The "harmless version", i.e. without the dangerous file attached I copied > below. If you get this mail, delete the attachement immediately. As far as > I remember recent virus warnings, it is quite dangerous. > > I know for sure it is no Hoax. Have no time to check and give you the > corresponding URL on Symantec and Norton's site. > > A nice Christmas present :-( > > Nevertheless, > Merry Christmas everywhere > Stefan > > ------------------------- > Here how the mail looks (originally in colour, since it is in HTML): > > > > > > http://stuart.messagemates.com/index.html > > > > Hypercool Happy New Year 2000 funny programs and animations... > > We attached our recent animation from this site in our mail ! Check it > out ! > > > > Attachment Converted: "......\gadget.exe" > > WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO ME? ALL I GET ARE THE SAME MESSAGES OVER AND OVER NEVER NEW ONES . I'M NOT A COMPUTER EXPERTE LIKE YOU. EJ
Date: 1999/12/31 00:01:45
From: W. Fred Rump <fred(a)k2nesoft.com>
Also sprach Joan Zeller on 25 Jul 98, at 17:25 about Re: Brueckenau area trip:
> The Kath. church in Wurzburg is violently oppossed to letting >the LDS
> church even think about their records. ("we don't want our people to be
> baptised Mormon; we want them to stay Katholish")
>
These people should really touch their heads to see if there is still
something there. I have a feeling it is much more a feeling of wanting to
"own" the records and let no one else have free access to them. It's really a
shame that this kind of an attitude exists within the archival community
where the whole point is to permit access to information from long ago.
Fred
Fred Rump http://www.k2nesoft.com/~fred
26 Warren St http://www.pelicanlake.com
Beverly, NJ 08010 fred(a)compu.com or
609-386-6846 fred(a)k2nesoft.com
Date: 1999/12/31 17:19:37
From: adorbath <adorbath(a)wanadoo.fr>
Hello, Is there anybody who could do a lookup for me at the registers of both Ober- and Unterleinach Catholic Parishes ? These registers have not been filmed by the Mormons or are not availables in their Libraries. I just would like to know if there is some Dorbath/Dorbat listed. My 6g-grandfather, Hans Leonard Dorbath, found a line in Reicholzheim, Baden, at the end of 17th century. He is mentioned in the Reicholzheim parish familienbuch as "Hanns Leonard Dorbat zimmermeister aüs Leinach". He went to Reicholzheim with a brother "Johannes Dorbat becker aüs Leinach Frater germ Jo Leonardi". I guess the Leinach registers are availables at the Diözesanarchiv in Würzburg. Thank you. Alain Dorbath Pau - France adorbath(a)wanadoo.fr
Date: 1999/12/31 17:48:32
From: Jim Amaral <jamaral(a)columbus.rr.com>
not unless things have changed drastically. Many of the smaller franken parishes are not even in the churches! The neighborhood historian has them in his house in the Bad Brückenau area (like Shondra, Modlas, Oberleichersbach (sp?) when I was there 3 years ago. JimA adorbath wrote: > Hello, > > Is there anybody who could do a lookup for me at the registers of both Ober- > and Unterleinach Catholic Parishes ? > These registers have not been filmed by the Mormons or are not availables in > their Libraries. > I just would like to know if there is some Dorbath/Dorbat listed. My > 6g-grandfather, Hans Leonard Dorbath, found a line in Reicholzheim, Baden, > at the end of 17th century. He is mentioned in the Reicholzheim parish > familienbuch as "Hanns Leonard Dorbat zimmermeister aüs Leinach". He went to > Reicholzheim with a brother "Johannes Dorbat becker aüs Leinach Frater germ > Jo Leonardi". > I guess the Leinach registers are availables at the Diözesanarchiv in > Würzburg. > Thank you. > Alain Dorbath > Pau - France > adorbath(a)wanadoo.fr