oldenburg-l - Nachricht 2006-10 00035

[Margot King <margot.king(a)ca.inter.net>]

Dear Fred,

You people really are amazing!

The reason I'm so interested in the schooling (apart from general 
curiosity) is that my great grandmother (the daughter of a Heuerman) in 
Damme was the first teacher in a small district school in Stearns 
County and from what I recall my family saying about her, she clearly 
had educational aspirations for herself and her children -- or at least 
for her sons, if not her daughters, although the youngest did make it 
to university in the early 20s. Would she have had enough training at 
the school on the  Meyer-Holzgrefe estate (Volkschule? Dorfschule? 
Landschule?) to enable her to teach once the family arrived in the U.S. 
in 1870? I doubt that she went  to Normal School but I gather that the 
requirements for teaching weren't all that strict at the time.

Thanks again!

Margot
On 13-Oct-06, at 9:32 PM, W. Fred Rump wrote:

> Margot,
> as time went on education became ever more regimented in the various
> German states. They were in the forefront here among all countries in
> the world and the German educational system became an example others
> would follow.
>
> The outlying farm groups (Bauerschaften) had a choice of sending their
> kids to the main school or starting their own. They mostly chose the
> latter because of distance. It could also be 'controlled' a bit better
> at home if the need for help on the farm arose. Kids pretty much had
> to work and at 14 you were supposed to be done with all that schooling
> and earn a living. Only the höhere Bürgerschule offered a way up the
> line and out of a very basic education. Later it became the Gymnasiums
> in regional cities but travel arrangements had to be possible.
>
> During much of the early to mid 19th century the single class for all
> students was the norm with the church custodian, organist etc (Küster,
> Ludimagister, etc) being the designated school teacher. A bunch of my
> ancestors served in this function in the Osnabrück area in Lutheran
> parishes. In Prussian controlled areas these teachers were often
> retired or cashiered former soldiers. The idea was that discipline was
> more important then lots of school learning. Many of these school had
> a hard time when it was time to harvest the fields as the students
> mysteriously got sick and couldn't be in school. Some schools even
> fined the parents because of this absenteeism. The clergy might have
> taught religion but typically they were above the menial task of
> teaching. Teachers really did not enjoy much prestige and were very
> poorly paid. It had to be a labor of love and very hard work.
>
> Fred
>
>
> On 10/13/06, Margot King <margot.king(a)ca.inter.net> wrote:
> > Dear Werner,
> >
> > You're marvellous and once again I thank you for all your help. I did
> > discover a bit of general information about the German school system 
> > in
> > the 19th century but nothing as specific as what you've sent me. But 
> > as
> > usual, I have more questions! What precisely were the "side schools" 
> > on
> > the Bauernshaften? On what grounds would each Bauerschaft be chosen to
> > house such a school or was the choice up to the owners of the
> > Bauernschaften? What kind of qualifications would the teachers have to
> > have -- or were they simply drawn from the local clergy? On the basis
> > of what I've read, I presume that the students would have been taught
> > reading, basic arithmetic, writing and catechism.
> >
> > Thank you again. I'll send you a copy of my funny small family history
> > once I'm satisfied that there aren't too many errors in it.
> >
> > Margot
> >
> >
> > On 13-Oct-06, at 12:51 PM, Werner Honkomp wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Margot,
> > >
> > > I have the history of the School in Damme, it is a long story, but in
> > > German language.
> > >
> > > About 1830 was in Damme two main schools (for boys "Knabenschule" for
> > > girls "Mädchenschule") each with only one class-room, together 2
> > > teacher and 232 kids! 1863 started the two class system with three
> > > teachers, boys and girls are the first three school years together in
> > > a class.
> > > In additional to this was there 13 side schools in the
> > > Bauernschaften(farm groups) like Borrighausen, Haverbeck, etc.
> > > This was also only one class room for girl and boys, 1830 80-110 
> > > kids,
> > > but about 1870 only 50-70 kids because a lot of families emigrated to
> > > the States. There are trained teachers at the schools since about
> > > 1830, but all must have a small farm for live, the income was very
> > > bad.
> > > Since 1866 has Damme an additional school "Höhere Bürgerschule" like 
> > > a
> > > high school with several classes. After this school they could go to
> > > Münster to the education as a teacher.
> > > I think, also the Heuerleute children could go to the Höhere
> > > Bürgerschule.
> > >
> > > I hope help,
> > > Werner
> > >
> > > > I'm back again with what probably is another simple-minded question
> > > > but
> > > > the list members have been so generous with their answers to my 
> > > > other
> > > > questions that I'm hoping that perhaps someone can help me out.
> > >
> > > > What kind of education would the children of the Heuerleute in
> > > > Oldenburg have had in the middle of the nineteenth century?  My 
> > > > great
> > > > great grandfather (Johann Heinrich Bergmann) was a tenant farmer in
> > > > Damme but only a few years after the family's arrival in the U.S. in
> > > > 1870, he was on the school board in Stearns County MN and his
> > > > daughter,
> > > > my great grandmother Berardina, was the first teacher in one of the
> > > > small district schools there. She must have had some kind of 
> > > > schooling
> > > > but would it have been enough for her to teach?  I know that there
> > > > were
> > > > Progymasia all over Germany at the time but am not sure how the
> > > > Heuerleute would have fit into this scheme or indeed whether she 
> > > > would
> > > > have attended such a school.
> > >
> > > > I'd be most grateful for any help in this area and/or suggestions 
> > > > for
> > > > further reading.
> > >
> > > > Margot King
> > > > Oldenburg-L mailing list
> > > > Oldenburg-L(a)genealogy.net
> > > > http://list.genealogy.net/mailman/listinfo/oldenburg-l
> > >
> > > Oldenburg-L mailing list
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> >
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>
>
> --
> Fred Rump,  Beverly, NJ also
> 730 5th St. NW Naples, FL 34120
> fredrump(a)gmail.com
> http://fredrump.phanfare.com
>
> Karl Kraus (1874-1936) "How is the world ruled and how do wars start?
> Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read."
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