hannover-l - Nachricht 2008-07 00181

[Brouwers <anmaristin(a)zeelandnet.nl>]

Of course back then it would have been fairly simple to cross the border say
into  Holland  especially from the Emsland  or Westfalen area and catching
the boat in Rotterdam(which many Germans from Westfalen did, as far back as
the 1700's they would sail up the Rhine to Rotterdam)  without the paper
work,  but so often we forget how things were differant in days gone by, in
some peroids of time you even had to have permission to leave your city or
village,  in Holland before you were allowed to enter the city you had to
show the poorter - gatekeeper your papers,and if you were a blacksmith in
Germany you were never allowed to leave, because you knew the sercet of
sword making from your town. which had been passed down thru the generations
and was not to fall in the hands of others.  But then again you had Germans
moving back and forth across the dutch border continuly, as if that
invisible borderline did not exist,  being born in one marring in the other,
have one or more childern born here then there,  There was even the tradion
among Germans living in eastern Holland that lived their entire life in
Holland but going across the border to Rutenbuch to marry and have their
childern baptised  there. This is just to say nothing is clear cut, there
are always exceptions to the rules, and yes many docutment books and papers
were destoyed thru war, fire, floods or by the burocrats themselves, that
after awhile considing it not important to save and making room for new
paperwork.      Anna Marie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barbara Stewart" <raybarbara(a)san.rr.com>
To: "Hannover-L" <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [HN] Permission to emigrate?


Hello,

     Interesting story there, Anna Marie!

    However, there had to be quite a few others others who emigrated from
Hannover  with no such permission to leave. I'm talking about the
mid-1800's. There must have been some who got out by other means. My
great-grandfather emigrated  from Sustrum in Hannover sometime before 1853
and there is no record in the Hannover archives for his emigration - nor the
woman he married and all of her family.

  http://aidaonline.niedersachsen.de/

 There are many other others from the Emsland that are not listed.  I have
searched for many other names from this list and very often their names are
missing. Maybe records were destroyed  or perhaps they paid off the captain
of the ship. Maybe they sneaked on - who knows.

Barbara









> Even till afterWW11 you needed a exitvisa, just before  the war many
Jewish
> persons had such a hard time to leaving Germany because they would not
> recieve a existvisa or it took so long. and they were  stripped of all
> possensions and limited to what they were allowed to take along and how
much
> money or things of value they could take with them , everything else had
to
> be left behind and went to the state,   I know that when my father went
with
> the boat from the US to the Netherlands in 1946 he went via Swenden to get
> there,(there were very few ships sailing for regular passengers)   in his
> passport was a entery visa and a exist visa and he was only passing thru,
on
> his way to Holland. He told me he almost missed his connecting ship
because
> they were being so difficult about the exist visa,he had 3 crates of
> housegoods, bicycles, sewingmachines, clothes  for his family in Holland
> because after the war there was nothing,  he had to slip the bureaucart
$10
> to help speed up the process, without it he could not legally leave the
> country.  In this day and age we forget that people were not free to come
> and go as they pleased.        Anna Marie Schmitz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <KSchulWill(a)aol.com>
> To: <hannover-l(a)genealogy.net>
> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 4:26 PM
> Subject: [HN] Permission to emigrate?
>
>
> Good day List,
>
> Was it necessary to request permission to legally emigrate from  Hannover
> between 1860 - 1880?  If so, can one search or request a  search of
archives
> for
> emigration?
>
> I am looking for emigration/immigration information for:
>
>     Georg Carl Theodor SCHULTZ, born 1837 in  Stavenhagen Stadt,
> Stavenhagen,
> Mecklenberg-Schwerin;
>     Helene Charlotte Johanna LÜTCKENS, born 1842 in  Hannover Stadt,
> Hannover;
>     their son Heinrich Friedrich August LÜTCKENS  (SCHULTZ), born 1861 in
> Osterwald, Hannover
>
>     brother of Johanna, Ernst August LÜTCKENS, born  1841 in Hannover
Stadt,
> Hannover
>     Unknown relation, possibly son of Ernst August,  Louis LÜTCKENS, born
> about 1861, place unknown.
>
> I have found immigration/ship records (21 Oct 1867) only for Ernst August
> and Louis LÜTCKENS.  I believe from U.S. records that Georg Carl SCHULTZ
> came
> to the U.S. in 1861, based on his naturalization papers.  He had not
> married
> Johanna before the birth of their son.  According to varying U.S.  census
> records, Heinrich Friedrich August SCHULTZ immigrated between 1864 and
> 1866.
>
> The family was united by the 1870 U.S. census.  I have searched Castle
> Garden One Step, but cannot find conclusive information for the SCHULTZ
> individuals.  A search of the Mecklenberg-Schwerin emigration  records did
> not find any
> of the family.
>
> Any information about how or where to search would be  appreciated!
>
> Thank you for your time,
> Karen Williams
>
>
>
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